N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: Corbie on December 24, 2019, 11:22:55 AM

Title: locomotive search
Post by: Corbie on December 24, 2019, 11:22:55 AM
 :helpneededsign:
It appears that I have bitten off more than I can chew in deciding to model the Great North of Scotland Railway, 1920  :hmmm: The two locomotives concerned, the Pickersgill Class V (later called D40) and Heywood Class F (later called D41) don't seem to exist in N-gauge, apart from scratch-built, unless you know otherwise. I've found etched body kits by Worsley Works but in 2mm scale.
If anyone has any other leads, please let me know. Alternatively if there is a similar locomotive in N-gauge that I could adapt then that might work.

Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: Dorsetmike on December 24, 2019, 11:31:11 AM
Alan at Worsley works should be able to do an N gauge version if you ask.
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: Bob G on December 24, 2019, 11:37:37 AM
Worsley Works can and will scale the brass to 1:148 so no problem there. Just leaves the chassis to worry about...oh and rolling the boiler :)
N Brass is a good supplier of bits, and you can get your whistles, chimneys etc from him.
Farish (4P), Dapol (Schools) and Union Mills (T9) do 4-4-0 chassis. The UM T9 might be easier to use/modify as it has a bulletproof mechanism, the wheel sizes are not too bad a match, and they look very similar in design. Not DCC though (see photo below).

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1517-241219113656.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=85384)


Good luck.
Bob
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: Corbie on December 24, 2019, 01:12:47 PM
Brilliant, thanks guys.
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: Dorsetmike on December 24, 2019, 01:30:31 PM
As for rolling boilers, I cheat, use brass tube, as I have a lathe I do a bit of turning to give boiler bands and smoke box, for the firebox make a cut along the bottom the length of the firebox then make a further cut to make a "T" bend out, hey presto - firebox, I'll have a hunt for a pic I took many moons ago.
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: thebrighton on December 24, 2019, 05:21:20 PM
Allan at Worsley Works will indeed adjust it to N gauge. Ok, so mine's not in GNSR livery as I modeled it as one of those acquired by the SECR but it is doable in N. It is powered by a Union Mills tender drive and also uses drivers and bogie wheels from the same source. The boiler is brass tube of the appropriate diameter with N Brass fittings.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/943-141219161911.jpeg)
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: stevewalker on December 24, 2019, 07:22:49 PM
As for rolling boilers, I cheat, use brass tube, as I have a lathe I do a bit of turning to give boiler bands and smoke box, for the firebox make a cut along the bottom the length of the firebox then make a further cut to make a "T" bend out, hey presto - firebox, I'll have a hunt for a pic I took many moons ago.

Cutting and bending from a tube is exactly how you make a proper, live steam boiler (except in copper) for larger model scales (5" gauge and the like) - it is definitely not a cheat.
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: Lawrence on December 24, 2019, 09:33:21 PM
or.......
you could move straight to LNER Era, fewer headaches and a healthier wallet for the little extras
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: Shiney Sheff on December 24, 2019, 09:43:51 PM
I converted a Union Mills D20 to an acceptable ( for me ) D40. it still needs finishing,but you get the general idea.
There are more pictures in my album on here.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/42-211017165910.jpeg)

Bob
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: Corbie on December 27, 2019, 10:27:31 PM
Allan at Worsley Works will indeed adjust it to N gauge. Ok, so mine's not in GNSR livery as I modeled it as one of those acquired by the SECR but it is doable in N. It is powered by a Union Mills tender drive and also uses drivers and bogie wheels from the same source. The boiler is brass tube of the appropriate diameter with N Brass fittings.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/943-141219161911.jpeg)

@thebrighton (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=943) Thanks, I like that. Is there enough room in the tender for DCC with the Union Mills drive? I emailed Allen at Worsley Works and he confirmed scaling to N-gauge. There are two GNSR locos and a few other rolling stock, which is brilliant, though it is a daunting task making these.

@Lawrence (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=16) Re why I decided on GNSR rather than LNER; no strong reasons really, but mainly because the first thing LNER did when they took over was stopped carrying passengers at our local station, and it became goods only. Also we had family members who were involved in the 1920s and I like the era. I'll see how I get on with it and if it turns out to be too difficult I may change it to slightly later.
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: Dr Al on December 27, 2019, 10:35:32 PM
I look forward to hearing how this build may go - so do please post up a workbench thread when you take it on. The D40 is a very attractively elegant loco IMHO!

Cheers
Alan
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: thebrighton on December 28, 2019, 10:04:12 AM
Allan at Worsley Works will indeed adjust it to N gauge. Ok, so mine's not in GNSR livery as I modeled it as one of those acquired by the SECR but it is doable in N. It is powered by a Union Mills tender drive and also uses drivers and bogie wheels from the same source. The boiler is brass tube of the appropriate diameter with N Brass fittings.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/943-141219161911.jpeg)

@thebrighton (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=943) Thanks, I like that. Is there enough room in the tender for DCC with the Union Mills drive?

I don't use DCC myself buy do know many have successfully chipped UM tenders and the available space inside this tender is no different so it should be doable although I used all available space to add weight as the etched tender is obviously a lot lighter than the UM cast one. That said more space could be made available with a larger coal pile :)
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: Lawrence on December 28, 2019, 01:03:47 PM
@Corbie (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8126) totally understand your reasons and wish you well in your search, you will often hear Rule 1 mentioned on here and Rule 1 states - It's my layout and I'll run what I want  ;)
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: PGN on January 19, 2020, 12:08:10 AM
Corbie -

Glad to see another modeller taking on the pre-grouping period in N (there's more of us than you might think!) and really impressed that you're taking on the GNS ... for which, as you've noticed, there is very little in the way of proprietary models.

It's not much better for the other Scottish railways.

For the Highland, there's only the ABS Beaver white metal kit for the Drummond 0-6-4 banking tank ... if you can track one down!

For the Glasgow & South Western there's nothing at all (although it shouldn't be too difficult to turn the Drummond 0-6-4T into a G&SW 0-6-2T ... one of my current projects).

For the North British, Graham Hughes made two white metal kits (a 4-4-0 and an 0-6-0) but these are even harder to find than the ABS Beaver Highland 0-6-4T.

For the Caley, Graham Hughes made kits for the 782 class and 498 class 0-6-0Ts. Again, being Graham Hughes they're a devil to track down, and cost the earth when you do find one. The 782 class fits a Farish chassis, but the Beetlecrusher is designed to work on a Minitrix dock tank chassis, and it's the devil's own job to shoehorn it in there.

And that's pretty much it.

There are of course the Farish 4P 4-4-0s from the early 1980s in Caley livery which, if you're not too particular, can stand as proxies for the Caledonian Dunalastair and other inside-cylinder 4-4-0s ... and the recent Bachmann Farish Fairburn tank in Caley livery (as turned out in preservation by the Haverthwaite and Lakeside Railway in the 1970s) which can stand proxy for the  big Caledonian 2-6-4Ts. I also have a Peco Manning Wardle 0-4-0T in Caley livery which I couple to a 3 plank wagon full of coal and pretend it's the Killin Pug.

In short ... you'd me in much the same pickle no matter which of the five main cottish pre-grouping railway companies you opted for ... so stick to it, and best of luck in your modelling!
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: Corbie on January 19, 2020, 08:19:31 AM
Corbie -

Glad to see another modeller taking on the pre-grouping period in N (there's more of us than you might think!) and really impressed that you're taking on the GNS ... for which, as you've noticed, there is very little in the way of proprietary models.

Afraid it seems like an impossible task at the moment! I'm in the early stages just now- track laying, sorting out electronics, and starting to design some buildings. I've left the loco & rolling stock problem aside for now, though keeping a sideways eye out in case anything pops up.

There are of course the Farish 4P 4-4-0s from the early 1980s in Caley livery which, if you're not too particular, can stand as proxies for the Caledonian Dunalastair and other inside-cylinder 4-4-0s ... and the recent Bachmann Farish Fairburn tank in Caley livery (as turned out in preservation by the Haverthwaite and Lakeside Railway in the 1970s) which can stand proxy for the  big Caledonian 2-6-4Ts. I also have a Peco Manning Wardle 0-4-0T in Caley livery which I couple to a 3 plank wagon full of coal and pretend it's the Killin Pug.

In short ... you'd me in much the same pickle no matter which of the five main cottish pre-grouping railway companies you opted for ... so stick to it, and best of luck in your modelling!

Likewise, I'm going down the route of surrogates until I find a better solution- I picked up a B12 (LNER) and a D11 (BR) from Union Mills, both of which ventured onto GNSR lines, albeit not until after the grouping and in the wrong livery (but I did put in a request to Colin Heard at Union Mills that he considers building a GNSR Inverurie-built loco). He said, well, there's no harm in asking! I think scratch building is the only option really, but I'm not quite ready for that yet. Softly, softly catchee monkey.
Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: maridunian on January 19, 2020, 10:20:16 AM

For the Glasgow & South Western there's nothing at all (although it shouldn't be too difficult to turn the Drummond 0-6-4T into a G&SW 0-6-2T ... one of my current projects).

I always thought the G&SW dock tank would be an easy hack from a Minitrix 2F...

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/2947-190120101419-86353722.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/2947-190120101419-863531700.jpeg)

Mike

Title: Re: locomotive search
Post by: PGN on January 19, 2020, 11:45:02 AM
Mike -

Yes, that's another of my projects! But the dock tanks didn't often venture out onto the main running lines.

The big G&SW pugs look like a good first scratch-building project, too, as the Bachmann 0-4-0 chassis looks as though it ought to be usable. But we're talking about a whole load of tank engines here, and the G&SW was a notoriously anti-tank railway!

When we NEED is a tender locomotive or two ... and here help may be at hand as I have been trying to persuade Rudi Newman that a Manson 4-6-0 would be a nice locomotive to produce as a 3D print ... and he is actually quite interested in the idea. So keep your eyes on the Newman Miniatures section of the Shapeways site.



Corbie -

The unfortunate thing is that Colin Heard's experience is that Scottish prototypes are always much slower-selling than English prototypes (ask him about his experience with the J38 some time ... ) and this invariably affects his decision-making, as no manufacturer can afford to tie up their working capital in models which languish unsold for unearthly periods. It's simple commercial reality, unfortunately.

But, you never know ... at least the GNS was a 4-4-0 railway, and Colin's USP is his wide range of 4-4-0s. Even if he does not give you an Inverurie locomotive, he might come up with one which is a relatively easy bash. (My next bashing project is likely to be turning an LMS 2P into a SECR E1 ... there's VERY little work needed for that one, and you may find the same. Just keep comparing pictures ...
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