N Gauge Forum

Your Layout and Models => Electronics => Topic started by: Sven on December 21, 2019, 03:09:32 PM

Title: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on December 21, 2019, 03:09:32 PM
Because Dapol doesn't make them anymore and I had quite a few coaches of my Dapol HST to replace, I added plugs to the light bars I was already selling through my Tramfabriek shop. They are perfectly suitable for any Dapol Mk3 with the plug, but also other Dapol trains with this plug,  like the Class 156, Class 121 and Class 142. Added bonus: they come with two anti-flicker capacitors. I've made them available for all.

More info and to order here:

https://tramfabriek.nl/lighting.html

(https://tramfabriek.nl/weblinks/ngauge/lightbar/IMG_3400.jpg)

(https://tramfabriek.nl/weblinks/ngauge/lightbar/IMG_3401.jpg)
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Bob G on December 22, 2019, 11:12:46 AM
That's interesting. Thanks for the post.
Is the Dapol production issue one of timing or one of definitely stopped production, as the coaches all have light bar fittings now (apart from the early B sets and autocoaches)
Bob
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on December 22, 2019, 11:27:54 AM
Hey Bob,
I was asking myself that same question. I forgot to ask Dapol at Warley, when I spoke with them. I have been waiting to release this for three months now, as I was expecting their light bar to be temporary unavailable. But they've been removed from their website, so I think they want to focus on something else. When I spoke with them in Warley, I was told their priority is O gauge now, so I feel we won't see it back from them soon. Why they still build in the plug, is the only thing that is indeed confusing.

Anyway, in the mean time, a solution is here now. And it comes with anti-flicker. I think that wasn't included in the Dapol's. If you use a diamond drill bit, you can carve away enough of the plastic, that it becomes a tray and one of the capacitors fits in it. Tip: when you don't take the interior out, like me, put some masking tape around it to cover the windows, so the dust doesn't get to the windows. Saves you from cleaning. After doing a few, I can now fit them in 15 minutes.
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: RailGooner on December 22, 2019, 12:01:33 PM
I'd long given up on Dapol resuming production. If your product comes to Dapol's attention, that'll be the certain end of Dapol's - I doubt there's enough profit in them to warrant a battle.

I have a good supply of the plugs ( :beers: to @geoffc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2819) ) so I'll certainly be ordering some of the unwired ones Sven.
 :beers:
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on December 22, 2019, 12:11:32 PM
I'm not really into a battle with Dapol. I like them and like to support them. If they would make them again, I will just sell the remaining stock. I fill up gaps in the market, I don't want to take the business of other companies away.

But as said, they have been removed from their website. I don't think there are plans to bring them back.  :confused2:
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Bramshot on December 22, 2019, 12:30:00 PM
Having DCC, I have always used a 12 V strip of 6 LEDs and soldered a plug on to it, ( with an additional resistor to dim the LEDs if required). No anti-flicker, but with all wheels conductive they donít flicker anyway. Two groups of 3 inverse connected so both halves of the dcc waveform are used, to balance the load. This wonít work on DC though, you would only get half of the lights on in each direction.
However, well done Sven for filling the gap!
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on December 22, 2019, 12:40:25 PM
When I still had time, I used to do that as well.  ;D You could actually also leave out the plug and solder straight on the connectors, but I've tried that and it's very tricky not solder the outer pins to the middle one or to accidentally touch the coach with the solder iron. And as someone who likes things perfect, a plug looks much neater.
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: RailGooner on December 22, 2019, 02:19:29 PM
I'm not really into a battle with Dapol. I like them and like to support them. If they would make them again, I will just sell the remaining stock. I fill up gaps in the market, I don't want to take the business of other companies away.

But as said, they have been removed from their website. I don't think there are plans to bring them back.  :confused2:

I think we're in agreement there Sven - saying the same using different words. :beers:
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: daytona on December 24, 2019, 04:07:46 PM
just ordered 2 , I did notice the lightbars are not listed on Dapol website so I emailed then with no reply
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Bob G on December 29, 2019, 06:27:10 PM
Just fitted the first of ten warm white light bars to Maunsell coaches.
I will document this, now I have cracked how to do it, and do a write up for the NGS magazine.
Sven was so helpful in telling me how I had wired it wrong when I thought it was almost impossible to wire it wrong!
I had viewed it from the wrong side of the pcb when wiring it up! :)
And the capacitor idea makes a great difference to flicker on the track on DC.

Best regards
Bob
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on December 30, 2019, 10:00:34 AM
The manual should be pretty clear.  ::) But I have to admit, I made the same mistake the first time. I include the manual with all orders, although a few did only receive a link to the manual, as I ran out of paper around Christmas, but didnít want to delay the shipments.
Manual can be found at: https://tramfabriek.nl/lighting.html (https://tramfabriek.nl/lighting.html)
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: kirky on December 30, 2019, 12:12:13 PM
Manual can be found at: [url]http://tramfabriek.nl/lighting.html[/url] ([url]http://tramfabriek.ml/lighting.html[/url])

@Sven (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6993) , the link doesnt work. I think this is it https://tramfabriek.nl/lighting.html
Seems its one of them confusing http vs https things.
Interesting item alll the same.

cheers
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on December 30, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Thanks for that. I can see what went wrong. I made a type in my first post, typing tramfabriek.ml, then changed that directly after posting, but I only changed the visible link, not the attached link to it, if you know what I mean. Now it works again.
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches - How i did it
Post by: Bob G on December 30, 2019, 02:34:00 PM
I thought I'd do a mini review for NGF and NGS modellers on the Tramfabriek light bar for Dapol coaches, including fitting into a Maunsell coach. Sven has some photos of the light bar and capacitor fitted to Mark III and 121 DMUs, so I thought I'd do the same for the Maunsell coach.

First off the light bar is longer and wider than the Dapol one. It can have between 4 and 8 LEDs illuminated, depending on where you shorten the light bar. The lightbar is shortened easily with a snip of the Xuron track cutter at the designated breakpoints on the lightbar. The Maunsells work well with 7 LEDs, which is great for the composite coach as that has 7 compartments. The Dapol light bar only has 6 LEDs. The Tramfabriek light bar is wider, so it doesn't sit in the grooves in the Dapol roofs, but I've not found that to be any problem.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1517-301219141111.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=85579)

The easiest coaches to modify are the brake ends, as the capacitor sits in the brake compartment. These were assembled in about ten minutes flat. Once I'd learned that the manual shows how to wire the plug connection up from the compartment side, rather than from the roof side, I managed to get the plug connections shortened and soldered very quickly. The manual says that the wiring doesn't need to follow any polarity, as there is a bridge rectifier on the lightbar, but it DOES matter if you wire it upside down, as I found out, because the lightbar didnt light. Once I realised I'd wired up the wrong tabs, I swapped them over and subsequent assembly was easy.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1517-301219141827.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=85581)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1517-301219141900.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=85582)

The composite coach was a little harder. I did a dry run with everything first time, but subsequent mods have been easier, and no more than 15 minutes max per coach. First, you have to unscrew the seating unit from the chassis. There are two small screws inboard of the bogies that hold the seating unit in place. Using the track cutter again, I snipped out the floor of the toilet at the end furthest from the lightbar plug. The capacitor sits in the toilet and the terminals are connected to the nearest set of terminals designed to take the capacitor wires. The plug is kept at the other end to make fitting easier. In this case you can get one LED per compartment, which gives better lighting than the Dapol original.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1517-301219142423.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=85583)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1517-301219142501.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=85584)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1517-301219142534.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=85585)

That's got the 3-car set finished. I've actually completed two three car sets, and have two more to do, but I've found the conversion very easy to do, once I had done the dry run and learned my lesson on the wiring matter. The capacitor makes a great deal of an improvement on stability of the lighting on DC, even though pickup is over all axles. All in all a good value kit to replace the currently unavailable Dapol light bar, and an improvement on it with the capacitor fitted, which is optional. However, like all things, once tried, you can never go back. There are two capacitors supplied, but I found one was good enough to eliminate flicker over track joints using DC.

Hope this helps Sven sell some more of these kits. They are very high quality components, and if I can do it, anyone can.

Bob
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on January 02, 2020, 10:27:24 PM
Nice write up, Bob! I'm very happy that you liked them. Train-O-Matic is still relatively unknown in this country, but that will change. They make excellent products.
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: daytona on January 02, 2020, 11:41:28 PM
again good 1 Bob , as regards to the capacitors wonder if possible to wire a capacitor into the dapol light bars,anybody tried this   
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: zopadooper on January 03, 2020, 09:17:37 AM
A supplementary question - I have read in this thread that wires with a plug to fit the Dapol coach socket are available.  I can't trace any.  Can anyone help?
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on January 03, 2020, 09:25:23 AM
If youíre not looking for the whole kit (see first post), including light bar, but only the wires, just look on eBay for JST 1.25 (=pin distance) 3 pin. You can just pull the middle, black wire.
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Bob G on January 03, 2020, 09:41:43 AM
again good 1 Bob , as regards to the capacitors wonder if possible to wire a capacitor into the dapol light bars,anybody tried this   

In theory it is possible, but i'm not an electronics guru at all. I just follow instructions.
You would have to find out which is the positive side of the LEDs and wire the positive side of the capacitor to that side, I think you would have to do it after the diode bridge, so not at the connections to the lightbar itself.

Bob
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Bob G on January 03, 2020, 09:50:14 AM
Nice write up, Bob! I'm very happy that you liked them. Train-O-Matic is still relatively unknown in this country, but that will change. They make excellent products.
I looked at your website - tramfabriek.nl - and I see you supply replacement N gauge motors too, for Minitrix, Fleischmann and Dapol locos. Very useful.
Keep up the good work.
Bob
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: DCCDave on January 03, 2020, 09:52:53 AM
Anyone know if these work with LBR Gresleys?

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Bob G on January 03, 2020, 10:31:16 AM
Anyone know if these work with LBR Gresleys?

Cheers
Dave

I see no reason why not. They can be shortened from eight LEDs down to four LEDs, and you dont need the capacitor - that is just to make them better than the Dapol standard model. I found it easier to fit them to the coach rather than the roof, and if you have a toilet area or a brake end area they are ideal locations for the capacitor. Otherwise the cap sits in a compartment (the same way that the plug and play light bar connector box does). These are not quite plug and play, but nearly so. I believe it is called modelling, but I'm not sure :)
Best
Bob
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: zopadooper on January 03, 2020, 11:13:21 AM
If youíre not looking for the whole kit (see first post), including light bar, but only the wires, just look on eBay for JST 1.25 (=pin distance) 3 pin. You can just pull the middle, black wire.

Thank you.  The main reason I asked was because of the large price difference between 5 units with wires  (47.50 ) and 5 without (30.00)
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on January 03, 2020, 11:21:58 AM
Ah, I see what you mean. I've actually been sending everyone who ordered 4 or more one light bar for free, but haven't listed that on the website. Surprise and delight. But that was an offer that was valid for all light bars until the end of 2019. Prices for 2020 have changed for the individual light bars, but just haven't gotten to it to adjust it. If you still want to order 4 for the price of 5, I'll extend it to today.
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: zopadooper on January 03, 2020, 11:40:27 AM
If you still want to order 4 for the price of 5, I'll extend it to today.

Thank you

Order just placed
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on January 03, 2020, 11:41:53 AM
Thanks! I will be sending it out today and if the post works along, hopefully you can start on it tomorrow.
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: DCCDave on February 16, 2020, 09:26:16 PM
So I've ordered and received one of these light 'bars' to use with a Dapol LBR Gresley.

The instructions seem straight forward, but I'd like to introduce a DCC decoder to allow me to switch on/off the lights remotely. I'm assuming the track feed goes into the decoder and the outputs are wired to the light bar. Question is if I want to use the capacitors for flicker free operation do I attach the capacitor between the pickups and the decoder, or between the  decoder and the light bar, or in the position indicated in the instructions?

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on February 16, 2020, 09:42:52 PM
The capacitor goes in the same place as indicated. You'll blow the capacitor and maybe decoder as well, if you would put it as you suggest. The capacitor should send extra power to the light, not to the decoder.  :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Bramshot on February 17, 2020, 04:55:33 AM
I have just jumped in and
So not sure what has gone before or which instructions are being referred to, but if using a decoder, that also need the benefit of any capacitor and it should be fitted as a stay alive capacitor according to the decoder  manufacturer instructions, possibly with some other additional components, then both the decoder and light bar will benefit from the stored energy. Zimbabwe supply a stay alive kit for their decided to which you add as much capacitance as you need in your application. These stay alives are normally wired between the common positive and ground connections to the decoder, which is after the on board rectifiers, so are dc connections.
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on February 17, 2020, 09:28:33 AM
I think I need to clarify: The capacitors supplied with the Tramfabriek light bar are not intended to use as "stay alive" for a decoder. Only for the lights. If you need real back up power for your motor (and not this fraction of a second so called "stay alive" capacitors), use a Smart Powerpack (SPP) (https://tramfabriek.nl/decoders.html#spp).

Let's keep the discussion in this thread to the light bar, please, not to a powerpack for the motor.
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: DCCDave on February 17, 2020, 11:04:56 AM
Sven,

I'm clear that this is just for the light bar, this coach has no motor so stay alive is not important here.

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on February 17, 2020, 11:10:32 AM
I got that, ha ha! I was just making sure no one would start using this capacitor to blow up their trains.  :beers:
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Bramshot on February 17, 2020, 07:09:37 PM
Stay alive for the decoder is important, if you have unreliable power to the decoder installed in a coach , which would be the case if you are getting light bar flicker, the decoder will need the stay alive to keep it operational and the stay alive I was referring to will also provide the back up power to the light outputs from the decider, not just to a ( in this case non existent) motor.
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on February 17, 2020, 07:16:43 PM
If a capacitor is installed on the light bar and a decoder has been attached to the light bar, the capacitor will catch interruption of the power from the decoder to the light bar.

Unless you use the decoder to create light effects, but that you can also achieve by removing the capacitor and not cleaning your track too well.  :laugh3:
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Bramshot on February 17, 2020, 07:54:12 PM
Hi Sven, hope you are well.
My point here is that the decoder itself needs a reliable power
supply to work properly and the capacitor on the light bar canít do that ( correct me if Iím wrong).
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Sven on February 17, 2020, 10:15:37 PM
Yes, you are right that a decoder would need reliable power, but that is the case if it is connected to a motor or a sound decoder. A motor or sound will stop immediately if it doesn't get power for a fraction of a second. But if the decoder is not feeding a motor, but only the light bar (as is the case with DCCDave's issue), then connecting a capacitor to the light bar is the free and working solution. If you add a Smart Powerpack/stay alive to the decoder, you get the same result, but you unnecessarily spend more money. If the light is being fed by a decoder or just straight from the tracks, that does not matter. If there is interruption from the track, with or without the decoder inbetween, the capacitor connected to the light bar saves the day. When the interruption has passed, the light bar would get power just the same, directly from the track or again from the decoder.

Unless I don't understand your point correctly?
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: Bramshot on February 18, 2020, 03:03:39 AM
...assuming the decoder correctly restarts in the same state it was left in before the power interruption. I am not sure that all of them do. Or does not get corrupted by intermittent power, that would be my concern .
 
Title: Re: New replacement light bar with plug for Dapol coaches
Post by: njee20 on February 18, 2020, 07:10:43 AM
Iíve never seen a decoder that doesnít retain its state during momentary losses of power.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal