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General Category => RevolutioN Trains => Crowdfunding => Pendolino => Topic started by: jpendle on August 14, 2019, 02:27:41 PM

Title: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: jpendle on August 14, 2019, 02:27:41 PM
Seems like First group have been awarded the WCML franchise and we may be getting Navy Blue Pendo's

So Ben & Mike, I had planned on a couple more 9 car Pendos with the Virgin silk livery, but now I'd be more tempted by whatever First group come up with.

Thoughts?

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: njee20 on August 14, 2019, 02:30:47 PM
Are they talking about navy blue Pendolinos? It's a joint operation between First Group and Trenitalia, and the DfT prefer white-base liveries with easily applied vinyls these days, so I'd not expect an all over blue livery any time soon.

Probably something akin to what they have now, with some variation of blue/pink/red/green swooshes somewhere!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: crewearpley40 on August 14, 2019, 02:41:02 PM
Nick confirmed. Railadvent confirmed trenitalia have the franchise
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: jpendle on August 14, 2019, 04:42:37 PM
The Navy Blue came up on RMWEB but I couldn't confirm it.

Either way the Virgin branding will be disappearing.

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: njee20 on August 14, 2019, 04:45:21 PM
Nick confirmed. Railadvent confirmed trenitalia have the franchise

Yes I know, but that's not the same as "the Pendolinos are going to be painted blue", indeed given Trenitalia are a state-owned Italian company I can't see they'd want blue trains :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: Ben A on August 15, 2019, 08:51:24 AM
Hi all,

I don't have any more information than in the public domain, but the Pendolinos are going through a costly full exterior repaint right now - down to bare metal - and are coming out in pale grey with a black roof.

This is not unlike the livery applied to the Class 700 units and others recently.

The Virgin flowing silk branding is a vinyl on the driving cars only.

First/Trenitalia have said they are spending several million on the Pendolino fleet but that this will be an interior refurb, which they do need.

Putting all that together, I reckon the rebrand will be limited to new vinyls on the driving cars (possibly dark blue/orange as those are the colours on the new website)  and maybe branding on the intermediate vehicles, but remaining predominantly black/pale grey.

F-T take over in December, and I suspect the flowing silk livery will be around for at least another year or two beyond that.  And there are still a few Pendos running around in the original livery!

We are still planning on offering a couple of flowing silk and original livery sets very soon.  Once we know what F-T are doing then we may look at another run in their colours.

Cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: Spanners70 on August 15, 2019, 10:59:54 AM
Thanks Ben. And bugger. Thatís another few hundred £ of my money heading your way, I looked how much I have on back ordered yesterday and my eyes started watering... rakes of hoppers, sturgeons, Car transporters, class 92s ..
I just hope some arrive soon before I rack up more orders  :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: Bealman on August 15, 2019, 11:03:41 AM
Awesome order there!

We're going to see them all on your layout, then?   ;)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: Snowwolflair on August 15, 2019, 11:04:42 AM
Thanks Ben. And bugger.

Is this a new member of the Revolution staff we don't know about  :D

My thoughts on the new livery is there is lots of time as the new livery might be a pigs ear.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: Spanners70 on August 15, 2019, 11:15:41 AM
Nah def not staff just thanking Ben for his update. I just have an illness a bit like Touretteís, every time they launch a new item I have to keep hitting the buy button.
As for seeing them, wish I could but Ive only got as far as putting some floor boards down in the loft, and a length of track about 6m in a straight line. Still not sure I needed 29 class bís either. Or the 10 cargo wagons. Or the 21 kfaís  or 1 surgeons. Or the 21 IOA. Or 10 IPAOr 3 pendolino but will still buy some in other liveryís as an when. I also forgot Iíd ordered a couple of class 56 steam locos too. And a trans pennine rake of Mark 5ís. Undecided do I need a Stobart class 92? Or a Caledonian 92 but the hat would mean another rake of mk5ís....

Must stop buying rolling stock and buy wood for baseboards and some track. I just carnt come up with a track plan that suits what Iíd like to have
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: Arrachogaidh on August 15, 2019, 11:54:54 PM
As I understand, the franchise is 70 First, 30 Trenitalia. As far as livery goes, First are well known for their "House" colours. Trenitalia have so many different liveries it would be difficult to speculate. The DfT may well have followed the Scottish Government example of specifying base colours with some operator statement or maybe as indicated by others a front and rear end statement with something homogenous in the middle.

Personally, I'm not bothered unless they have through sets running up the Scottish Central Main Line which may be a possibility if they revive The Clansman to Inverness?

I dare say I will be a passenger at some time, but not a paying one!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: davidinyork on August 16, 2019, 04:40:26 PM
With all recent franchise awards - TPE, Northern, East Midlands, South-West Trains, etc - DfT have strongly encouraged branding which isn't tied to the operator's corporate identity. I would therefore be very surprised if the First corporate colours were used here. SWT is a recent First franchise, and doesn't use First branding, and GWR is moving to green in place of First colours, despite currently still being operated by First (as it has been for many years).

Given that the Pendolinos are going through a full repaint at the moment into a white / very light grey colour, I would expect this to be retained with just branding vinyls.

It's also worth considering that assuming HS2 does go ahead, the branding will be used there too and DfT (or whatever body replaces it if the Williams review is followed through) is very much going to want the kudos of this project for itself, so won't want corporate brands prominently displayed.

On the plus side, the new operator is apparently planning to replace the awful seats. Shame they can't do anything about the 'porthole sized' windows!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: red_death on August 16, 2019, 06:05:12 PM
Given First's seat specs on other services I'm not holding out any hope that any seat replacements will be more comfortable (Pendo seats are nowhere near as bad as many modern seats!).
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: davidinyork on August 16, 2019, 06:07:18 PM
Given First's seat specs on other services I'm not holding out any hope that any seat replacements will be more comfortable (Pendo seats are nowhere near as bad as many modern seats!).

I guess that's subjective! I regard Pendolino / Voyager seats as by far the worst in any long-distance train. The Grammer seats which First fitted to the GW HSTs are a lot better.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: Arrachogaidh on August 16, 2019, 10:09:42 PM
I have to agree with David. For long distance the seating in Voyagers and Pendolinos is sub-optimal. I do not know what the seats are like in the 800 series.

Most new commuter services have ironing board seating.

I have to say that the most comfortable seating is in Mk4 and HST stock.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: RailGooner on August 16, 2019, 11:50:11 PM
Recently rode an 802 from Bristol to Didcot. Wasn't impressed much. A smoother ride than, but not as comfortable a cabin and seating as the venerable 43.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: crewearpley40 on August 17, 2019, 12:13:07 AM
some pretty interesting discussions over the franchise takeover, the ownership, and seating , preferences. i would like to see  maybe hand rails behind seats. you know if the train jerks, moves suddenly,jolts and you have been to the buffet car, shop or whatever it is called.  You need something to hang onto

also coat hooks seems small. incidentals.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: acko22 on August 17, 2019, 02:49:43 AM
Hi all,

As to the livery (please don't quote me on this one) but my understanding is that the DfT allows for trains have a full company livery applied so the Pendolinos could end up in say dynamic lines livery.
However at the end of franchise if they have lost it they have to pay for the trains to be returned to a white base coat similar to what we see the virgin fleet in not or Northern currently where it is a white base with company colours applied as overlays, the reason been that a number of new franchises have complained of the cost of removing the previous franchise operators livery.

So what livery we will see could well be affected by this, and how the new West Coast Partnership is ran buy the new operator.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: davidinyork on August 17, 2019, 06:22:59 AM
I do not know what the seats are like in the 800 series.

Most new commuter services have ironing board seating.

The seats on the 800s are better than Pendolinos, but far too hard - and the power sockets are in a really awkward position under the front edge of the seat.

Northern's new units, plus the refitted 158s, are getting ironing board (Fainsa) seats, but with extra padding which actually improves them considerably.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: crewearpley40 on August 17, 2019, 06:40:30 AM
Observations. Designers, have they thought of what if. .there is a rare power loss/ emergency then one would like a building require emergency lit signage. Back to power sockets agree. Its awkward. Surely one would think put sockets for  phones, laptops given the business and leisure travellers in more accessible positions?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: njee20 on August 17, 2019, 08:04:59 AM
what struck me virgin have the east coast / cross country ? franchises - will they retain ?

Virgin handed back the East Coast franchise last year, which is now publicly run as LNER, they lost the Cross Country franchise to Arriva in 2007.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: Karhedron on November 28, 2019, 10:17:34 AM
Here is an artist's impression of the new livery. Not too bad IMHO.

(https://e3.365dm.com/19/11/1600x900/skynews-avanti-west-coast_4848999.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20191127161917)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: jpendle on November 28, 2019, 02:53:15 PM
The Guardian said they would be painted, but I suspect it will actually be vinyls.

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: Skyline2uk on November 28, 2019, 05:44:53 PM
Much like many BR designs before them (thinking 91, 58 and 60 specifically), I wonder if the Pendos will always look best in the livery they were introduced with. The designers no doubt had more time to think about how the livery would work with the body features.

Not that as a proud new Pendo owner I am bias or anything  ;)

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: red_death on November 28, 2019, 05:53:38 PM
The designer who did the front end designed it with the livery so that they complemented each other.

Pretty sure these are vinyls as that was one of the points of the repaint into very pale grey with flowing silk vinyls. 

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: Chris Morris on November 28, 2019, 08:57:00 PM
I was hoping for a nice crimson lake with straw lining livery.

I really liked the Vigin livery but that's because it  seemed to be based on the Santa Fe warbonnet livery - probably the most iconic livery in the world.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 28, 2019, 09:01:38 PM
I was hoping for a nice crimson lake with straw lining livery.

I really liked the Vigin livery but that's because it  seemed to be based on the Santa Fe warbonnet livery - probably the most iconic livery in the world.

And when they are re-nationalised  :D


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/3761-281119210055.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=84492)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new livery
Post by: cornish yorkie on November 28, 2019, 09:03:11 PM
Here is an artist's impression of the new livery. Not too bad IMHO.

(https://e3.365dm.com/19/11/1600x900/skynews-avanti-west-coast_4848999.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20191127161917)
:hellosign:
  Yes, go to agree, the original Virgin livery was good, this one is smart
       regards Derek.
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