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Your Layout and Models => Train Surgery => Topic started by: fastpud on June 07, 2019, 09:00:02 AM

Title: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: fastpud on June 07, 2019, 09:00:02 AM
Hi,

I just received a Dapol Class 38 steamie, while it works its top speed is very slow, for example over a 4ft section of track it take 16 seconds at full throttle, where as my little pannier does the same is 5 seconds. I have reviewed the CVs and it looks fine, just seems that top speed is a problem. I have oiled as per instructions but no improvement. Is there any thing I can do other than returning to seller?

Thanks in Advance.
Fastpud
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: Paul-H on June 07, 2019, 09:13:34 AM
Was it new or second hand?

Has it been run in?

What value has CV 5 & 6 been set to?

Does it get hot when running?

Does it start moving at a low controller setting or go you have to turn the controller up high before it moves off?

Paul
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: fastpud on June 07, 2019, 09:48:01 AM
Thanks for the response
Its brand new, only got it a couple of days ago, so not run in yet.
It starts on a low throttle setting but not as low as the Pannier does.
I'm at work so can't tell you for certain what the CV5&6 are set to but these CV are for mid & max speed and I'm sure I checked them last night and max speed is set to 100%
Does not seem to get hot but was only doing short runs - will run it for a while tonight and see.
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: Railwaygun on June 07, 2019, 11:27:07 AM
Despite the hassle ( you are in Foreign Parts), I would return it.

You could try resetting the Chip ( 6 pin or next-18) first though - an expert will Ben along RSN ( or search DCC threads)

N
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: Dr Al on June 07, 2019, 12:45:35 PM
The Pannier is not comparable, it has a completely different motor and drivetrain.

The 38XX is a freight loco with a low top speed. If you can, check the current draw - if it's 100-150mA at full speed then it's working correctly. If higher, then there may be a motor issue.

I suspect it is normal.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: fastpud on June 07, 2019, 04:05:25 PM
Just calculated the scale speed and the top speed of my 38xx works out at approx 26mph. If that is normal max speed for a 38xx then obviously I ordered the wrong loco :(
Would a 68xx Grange run faster, I want it to be mainline passenger service eg 60mph and up?
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: Dr Al on June 07, 2019, 04:29:31 PM
Assuming correct calculation then yes, that is too slow - something isn't right.

Can you check the current consumption? It may be dodgey capacitors (common) or a dodgey motor.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: kardkits on June 07, 2019, 06:09:39 PM
I read something recently that one of the dapol steam engines has been made to run slow on purpose, not sure if it is this model or not
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: Dr Al on June 07, 2019, 06:37:10 PM
I read something recently that one of the dapol steam engines has been made to run slow on purpose, not sure if it is this model or not

Not as slow as the OP has described. There is definitely a fault.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: PLD on June 07, 2019, 08:39:04 PM
How does it run on DC power?

Is it a factory DCC version or did you fit the chip yourself? If not factory fitted, did you test on DC first as advised?
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: Rabbitaway on June 07, 2019, 09:47:31 PM
I have one running DC and it takes about 6 seconds to travel 4 feet at full throttle on a Gaugemaster type D controller. Just checked for you

My loco has had very little use so is not even run in so may become a little faster with use

Hope this helps

Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: jpendle on June 07, 2019, 09:55:08 PM
What brand of decoder is it?

If its a Dapol Imperium and you have a spare 20 quid then buy a Zimo instead and try that out.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: fastpud on June 08, 2019, 02:04:04 PM
Not sure what the decoder is, Its the factory installed one. Was running it last night and it runs fine just very slow top speed. Checked the  CVs 5&6 and they are set to zero.

I canít see what brand of decoder is in the loco so donít know how to Reset the decoder - also as I may just return this donít want to do anything that may void the returns.
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: Dr Al on June 08, 2019, 02:07:04 PM
Not sure what the decoder is, Its the factory installed one. Was running it last night and it runs fine just very slow top speed. Checked the  CVs 5&6 and they are set to zero.

I canít see what brand of decoder is in the loco so donít know how to Reset the decoder - also as I may just return this donít want to do anything that may void the returns.

Factory fit from Dapol is the Gaugemaster DCC23 decoder.

I suspect it's a loco problem though - you'd be best to test on straight DC before jumping to the conclusion it's DCC related.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: fastpud on June 08, 2019, 02:38:51 PM
Unfortunately i donít have a DC controller to test.
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: Dr Al on June 08, 2019, 02:40:41 PM
Highly worthwhile investment.

Cheap DC controllers from Bachmann split from train sets can be got for as little as £10 to £15.

Without being able to isolate a basic mechanical or electrical fault, you'll always have problems or assume it's DCC problems when it may not be. A loco must run well on DC before considering any DCC fit - DCC will not fix bad runners.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: fastpud on June 08, 2019, 04:14:24 PM
Just uploaded a short video to YouTube to show how slow it is. The video is with class 38xx running a max speed with no restrictions via CVs -the Pannier has acceleration setting but no max.

Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: Dr Al on June 08, 2019, 04:52:10 PM
Comparing with the pannier is pointless. It has a  completely different 3 pole can motor as compared the 38xx which has 5 pole skew wound. It will never run as fast, and was never designed to.

Has the model been run in for an hour? These motors can speed up as they bed in.

Testing on DC would be desirable. Measurement of the current draw would be desirable.

Beyond that CV8 -> 8 will reset the decoder. I highly doubt this is a DCC issue though.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: Newportnobby on June 08, 2019, 05:30:05 PM
@Fastpud (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6591)
As the loco is new I'd be reluctant to try another chip or remove the chip/insert blanking plate to test on DC as it could give the supplier all the excuse required to say you had done something to it to cause the fault. Sorry, but I'm in the 'return it' camp.
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: fastpud on June 08, 2019, 06:20:18 PM
Yes, I kinda feel that is the way to go too.
Was thinking of switching it for a  class 68xx ĎGrangeí would that be prototypical for passenger mainlines?

Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: Newportnobby on June 08, 2019, 09:04:21 PM
Personally I consider the Grange to be a 'mixed traffic' loco and, if you want a more passenger orientated loco, I'd plump for a 'Castle' although some reports have been made the latest Farish version has limited haulage capacity, especially on gradients.
Title: Re: New Dapol Class 38 very slow
Post by: fastpud on June 11, 2019, 12:59:00 PM
Decided to return loco to Hattons as it was so new and have ordered a "Grange" replacement. Since  Newportnobby suggested  a grange was mixed traffic I decided that it would better suit rather than an passenger only loco. Hopefully this loco runs better.

Thanks to everyone who responded.