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Your Layout and Models => Track, Points and Underlay => Topic started by: moggy12 on January 22, 2019, 08:29:24 AM

Title: ballasting tips
Post by: moggy12 on January 22, 2019, 08:29:24 AM
i started to ballast my n gauge track I use model scenics fine grade and a ballasting hopper thing you fill up and drag across track looks really neat when I have brushed the gravel away from the sleepers the problem is applying the glue I use 50/50 pva water and a small dose of washing up liquid and apply with a pipette the glue in centre of track is fine its doing the edges of the ballast the glue rolls off and takes some gravel with it so not giving the sharp edge to the ballast any tips on how to do this ? many thanks
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: ntpntpntp on January 22, 2019, 08:40:29 AM
Sounds like too much glue?   Trickle the glue down the sides of the rail (don't drop it on) and also from the outer edge of the ballast so that it soaks in a little at a time.     
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: daversmth on January 22, 2019, 08:46:48 AM
Try wetting the balast with a fine spray before applying the glue. I wet mine with a small fine spray of isoproponal,  being careful where it goes as it can attack paintwork.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: daveg on January 22, 2019, 09:09:06 AM
Agree with the IPA option but as I've done a lot of scenic stuff before ballasting I use an eye dropper to avoid any damage to the completed areas.

Dave G
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Bealman on January 22, 2019, 09:52:51 AM
I regard ballasting as the worst and messingly unsatisfying part of this hobby.

However, the advice to water it down and wait a bit longer to dry seems sound.

It's still the worst job in model railways, though, I don't care wot anybody says.  :P ;)
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Malc on January 22, 2019, 10:14:06 AM
I find a fine spray of water with a squirt of washing up liquid before using the PVA mix helps break the surface tension. If you want a sharp edge, mask it off with some tape.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: moggy12 on January 22, 2019, 02:20:48 PM
all most useful tips many thanks
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Karhedron on January 23, 2019, 03:32:24 PM
I don't use PVA anymore. I use acrylic floor polish (pledge multisurface polish) with a few drop of matting agent (Tamiya Flat Base) to kill the shine. It flows much more easily and does not disturb the ballast.

(https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_11_2012/post-887-0-89132300-1354281851.jpg)
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: springwood on July 23, 2019, 04:15:12 PM
I'm not too far off some ballasting on my layout, so just want to check one or two things.
In simple terms, is this generally accepted as the 'way to do it?'

1. Glue track and points to baseboard..and thoroughly test and check electrics till 100% happy!
2. Paint (via brush or spray) the sleepers (sleeper grime etc) and rail sides (rust colour). - initial weathering
3. Spread dry ballast, spray with a mist of water (+ tiny drop of washing up liquid)
4. Pipette or syringe a 50/50 PVA and water solution over the ballast to glue. Allow to dry.
5. Secondary weathering - e.g. brake dust colour on ballast shoulder and chairs, black to represent oil in the station areas.

If - as I hope - this looks about right, then I am unsure whether to use acrylic or enamel for stages 2 and 5?? Is the PECO weathering powder good?

Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Railwaygun on July 23, 2019, 04:33:00 PM
Wise monkeys do not ballast points - better a bare point than a dud point!
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 23, 2019, 05:03:06 PM
Never go near points i say with ballast. I used a cameo scene on a junction to depict the pway gang preparing to ballast but i stay clear
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: njee20 on July 23, 2019, 05:38:32 PM
You need to be more careful for sure, but you can’t leave an entire layout of points unballasted! Just keep moving the blades to ensure they’re not glued up.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: springwood on July 23, 2019, 05:39:02 PM
Wise monkeys do not ballast points - better a bare point than a dud point!

Never go near points i say with ballast...

Eh?? Two rather curious comments. I've been to plenty of exhibitions and seen a lot of layouts and don't believe I have ever seen an unballasted point!!

The guy from Everard Junction shows you how it's done very well here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj04VA4cOo8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj04VA4cOo8)

What about my 1 to 5 list??

Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: ntpntpntp on July 23, 2019, 05:41:49 PM
@springwood (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7301)  yep that pretty much covers it.  Personally I prefer not to highlight the rails with a different colour, I find it tends to emphasise the overscale size of the rail - even code 55. I just spray the track colour over everything before ballasting.

you missed the vital step 3.5   :D  :   tap the rails gently with the back of a spoon or similar, to bounce stray ballast grains off the tops of the sleepers before applying the glue.

When applying the diluted PVA, trickle it down the sides of the rails with a pipette  and from the edge of the ballast, rather than dropping directly onto the ballast.

Don't get hung up about doing the points, they are easy to ballast just be sure to keep the tie-bar totally clear and use small amounts of ballast, working away from the tie-bar.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/79/5885-230719174047.jpeg)
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: springwood on July 23, 2019, 05:56:35 PM
@springwood (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7301)

I just spray the track colour over everything before ballasting.


Can you give me a little more detail here - track colour (whose stuff do you use?). Can you recommend a decent (not too expensive!) spray gun? I here people using sleeper grime..is track colour similar to this? Prototypically, all rail sides and chairs are rusty so that's why I have always wanted to imitate that. Wooden sleepers look mid to dark brown (depending on age and location I guess). I think a mix of sleeper grime and some darker shades would do here.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: ntpntpntp on July 23, 2019, 06:08:45 PM
@springwood (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7301)

I just spray the track colour over everything before ballasting.


Can you give me a little more detail here - track colour (whose stuff do you use?). Can you recommend a decent (not too expensive!) spray gun? I here people using sleeper grime..is track colour similar to this?

I used to use Humbrol "Track Colour" in the 70s and 80s, but I've also used a home-brew mix of Tamiya acrylics (browns and greys and a little khaki mixed to taste and thinned if airbrushing).  I suggest you experiment and develop the blend that achieves the effect you're looking for, remembering this is just a base colour which you'll weather after ballasting anyway.

It doesn't have to be sprayed, a 1/2" brush will do to slosh it on, but I do prefer spraying.  A cheap single action airbrush will do the job as you don't need accuracy and absolute smoothness in this situation, even a beginner's basic outside-mix design works for general scenic use.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 23, 2019, 06:11:01 PM
that would be helpful please ntpntp ntp

i was only using contrasting comments to further a tutorial and help everybody else like springwood after yes admittedly i looked at old points on my test track line - which i used old track and point to test my skills on when younger.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 23, 2019, 06:13:13 PM
and thank you ntp ntp ntp
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Newportnobby on July 23, 2019, 09:32:36 PM
I'm another of the 'spray it all over' brigade (and I don't mean Brut :no:)
I use Railmatch sleeper grime ref 1406 from a rattle can and hold a piece of card to mask off anything else while spraying. Just remember to wipe clean railtops and their inside top before it dries. For points I'll use the same stuff sprayed onto some card and then carefully brushed on
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Bealman on July 23, 2019, 11:39:36 PM
I use the bottled stuff meself.

Oh thought you were talking about Brut sorry  :)
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: LASteve on July 24, 2019, 01:36:21 AM
I sprayed the whole track with sleeper grime before I started to ballast. I only use rust on the rails, either the scrap rails laying between the tracks or the tracks in little-used sidings.

One trick I learned from someone on here is to use an electric toothbrush to "bounce" excess ballast from the sleepers before you begin the glue/eyedropper process. Just put the vibrating part on the rails and work your way down. (Stop sniggering at the back). Much quicker than brushing the excess between the sleepers.

I learned to be careful around the tiebar of points, but I certainly would not leave them unballasted.

I didn't worry too much about sharp edges to the shoulders, look at the real permanent way and there's always a rough edge to the ballast if it hasn't been recently laid.

My two cents, anyway.

I found it quite a therapeutic exercise laying the ballast, but I didn't have a whole ton of track to deal with.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Bealman on July 24, 2019, 02:33:44 AM
My hatred of ballasting is well documented on this forum. It's even in a Railway Modeller mag from the nineties, when the editor, the late John Brewer, added a note suggesting I use Peco foam underlay (well never miss an advertising opportunity, I guess)!

Points (turnouts) are always a problem. I agree that unballasted points in the middle of otherwise ballasted track look crap.

However, ballasting them given their fragile nature is a pain, and I have wrecked more than one set in the process.

Even doing plain track is mind-numbingly boring to me, and made more stressful by the fact that, in this small scale, just one grain glued in the wrong place, can cause havoc with running.

Sorry, but ballasting?  :thumbsdown:

Worst part of all railwaymodellingdom  :sick2:
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Platy767 on July 24, 2019, 10:01:21 AM
(To oneself) Let's think about this for a while. Spend time laying down some ballast...OR play trains... OR make a wagon? I'm with Bealman.

...and besides, I've just got it all cleaned and running smoothly.

Actually, I didn't do any trains yesterday, I played golf. Mid winter and a temperature of 24C, beautiful, but we really could do with a lot of rain across the whole country.

Sorry, off topic!
Mark
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Railwaygun on July 24, 2019, 10:12:59 AM
there's always Kato Unitrack..JLTRT

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/941-060618222411-661091213.jpeg)

Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: njee20 on July 24, 2019, 01:23:32 PM
And the points...?
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: springwood on July 24, 2019, 03:06:55 PM
Wise monkeys do not ballast points - better a bare point than a dud point!

there's always Kato Unitrack..JLTRT


Nice photo - ballast looks quite good - but two things..

1. What does JLTRT mean? and
2. As njee20 comments, you have (conveniently?) not shown us any of your points.

They must look a bit bare against the track sections..

Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Newportnobby on July 24, 2019, 03:44:39 PM

What does JLTRT mean?

I would imagine 'just like the real thing', although at the risk of upsetting Unitrack users I think that's stretching things somewhat!
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: NeMo on July 24, 2019, 03:48:35 PM
1. What does JLTRT mean? and

Just like the real thing.

2. As njee20 comments, you have (conveniently?) not shown us any of your points.

What I've started to do recently is use superglue gel or UHU impact adhesive. Working very, very carefully, form a sort of patch of glue around the edge of the point, and then sprinkle the ballast onto that. Test repeatedly to check everything works. Unlike water-based glues, these form a semisolid mass that isn't prone to running, so it tends to leave the 'gubbings' alone. Tiny drops of superglue gel can be used around any remaining bits that need filling in once I'm done.

Obviously you can still use the water-based PVA mixture across the non-critical parts of the point, but around the moving bits, I'm finding this approach works tolerably well.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: njee20 on July 24, 2019, 03:52:36 PM
That sounds terrifying, although the theory makes sense!
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: ntpntpntp on July 24, 2019, 03:54:48 PM
Just ballast the points like you do the plain track, but using smaller "shovels" of ballast and a smaller brush to fill the small holes between the sleepers. Macdonalds used to do small long handled plastic stirring spoons which were ideal for the job!  These wooden stirrers we have now are no help at all  :D

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/79/5885-240719155017.jpeg)

It really is nothing to fear, and a relaxing way to pass an hour or so.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 24, 2019, 03:58:35 PM
Thank you for the tutorial
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: dannyboy on July 24, 2019, 06:01:59 PM
These wooden stirrers we have now are no help at all  :D


Daft as it sounds, I have used the wooden stirrers for placing ballast, but only near the manual switch on the Kato points.  The wooden stirrers only allow you to have a very small amount on the end. (Think how long it would take to ballast the whole layout using a wooden stirrer!!).

Just had a thought, if you glued three of the stirrers together to make a 'U' shape, you could have a long channel and allow the ballast to slowly trickle out - okay, I'll go home now  :))
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Bealman on July 25, 2019, 07:16:17 AM

It really is nothing to fear, and a relaxing way to pass an hour or so.

Like watching paint dry  ;)
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: LASteve on July 26, 2019, 05:24:20 AM
Macdonalds used to do small long handled plastic stirring spoons which were ideal for the job!  These wooden stirrers we have now are no help at all  :D

They stopped using the little spoons because it became apparent, and widely communicated, that they were perfect vehicles for cocaine use! Who would have thought it?
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 26, 2019, 05:48:40 AM
I would start a petition for reinstatement. What you using instead?
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: chrism on July 26, 2019, 06:23:57 AM
I would start a petition for reinstatement. What you using instead?

Indeed, we need to know. Ballast, even fine n-gauge ballast is too coarse to snort  :D
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 26, 2019, 06:27:56 AM
Agreed. Chris. What did you use at coniston please? Always looking for more realistic ballast
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: chrism on July 26, 2019, 06:45:37 AM
Agreed. Chris. What did you use at coniston please? Always looking for more realistic ballast

Gaugemaster GM-GM115 Granite Ballast - for around and between the sleepers, that is, not up my nose  :D

It looked a bit too pale and "clean" to start with, but darkened down nicely once the 50:50 PVA soaked in and set.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 26, 2019, 06:53:50 AM
Thanks chris. Maybe worth looking out for. I brought a pack cheap at a show, great for the yard but very fine for the mainline and was searching for another product. Looks like old spoon and stirrers may come in handy
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: chrism on July 26, 2019, 07:07:38 AM
Thanks chris. Maybe worth looking out for. I brought a pack cheap at a show, great for the yard but very fine for the mainline and was searching for another product. Looks like old spoon and stirrers may come in handy

I used one of those drag along hoppers for applying the ballast to the plain track - what there was of that that also wasn't between the platforms because the hopper was out of gauge - and a teaspoon for the rest.
Then it was a combination of brushes and fingers to get it spread and jammed down between the sleepers, followed by a spray of water to dampen it and a 50:50 PVA solution (with a drop of washing-up liquid) dripped on.

Close to the point tiebars I bottled it with that method and applied neat PVA with a fine brush and scattered dry ballast on.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 26, 2019, 07:13:06 AM
Ok thanks 3or the reminder, erm tutnrial chris. Have a good weekend
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: gavin_t on September 07, 2019, 08:16:41 AM
Hi

I thought I would add my question to this topic along with the other helpful information so far rather then starting a new topic.

Going to use cork as underlay to give quiter running. Now using peco code 80 would you:

- use a 2mm thick roll of cork under the track bed on the baseboard?

- cover the whole baseboard in Cork tiles and lay the track on this?

Didn't know which would give the best profile for the ballast....
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: daveg on September 07, 2019, 08:25:44 AM
I used a track underlay which gave me a nice ballast profile.

Here's an early work in progress shot:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/19/main_28555.jpg)

HTH

Dave G
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: gavin_t on September 07, 2019, 09:52:12 AM
I used a track underlay which gave me a nice ballast profile.

Here's an early work in progress shot:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/19/main_28555.jpg)

HTH

Dave G

Looks good that.
Is that code 80?
What underlay did you use?
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Bealman on September 07, 2019, 09:55:37 AM
An interesting question! Here are my thoughts from the last thirty years:

* My track is Code 80 laid on 2 or 3mm cork roadbed.

* I personally like a ballast shoulder, but apparently it's not so high in the UK compared to American railroads.

* I certainly wouldn't cover the whole baseboard in cork, it defeats the purpose of having track raised!

* Regarding sound deadening qualities, raw track on cork, yes, it works. However, as soon as it is ballasted, it becomes a solid connection to the baseboard, and any sound deadening qualities are negated.

* Unless you are running sound equipped locos, I don't see a problem. The sound of electric trains running has never been something that's bothered me.

* Two thirds of the way into the construction of my layout, I started laying track straight onto the plywood to cut costs. I have regretted that ever since, to the point of ripping it up and putting cork down.

Just some thoughts.  :beers:
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: ntpntpntp on September 07, 2019, 10:36:22 AM

- use a 2mm thick roll of cork under the track bed on the baseboard?

I've just finished ballastiing my latest project last night.

2mm cork cut into 1" wide strips. I use thinner cork in sidings where I don't want the track as high as the main running lines.

When laying curves use 2x 0.5" strip either side of the centreline as it's easier to lay round the curve


Quote
- cover the whole baseboard in Cork tiles and lay the track on this?

Definitely not! A total waste of cork, you end up with an unnatural totally flat surface and eventuallly find yourself cutting/carving lumps out of it anyway. I've never understood why some people take that approach?


Quote
Didn't know which would give the best profile for the ballast....

If you want to create a "shoulder" then use strips. It depends on the effect you're looking going for?  I'm modelling German railways and I prefer the look of a decent shoulder on mainline tracks at least.




(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/81/5885-070919103315.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=81150)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/81/5885-070919103517.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=81151)
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Bealman on September 07, 2019, 10:45:10 AM
Ntp3 has echoed my thoughts.  :beers:

Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: class37025 on September 07, 2019, 11:18:16 AM
I'm sure you can get rolls of the cork, about an inch wide, with a 45 degree cut down the centre.

you draw your centre line, lay out the length you need, finish the centre cut, then lay the square side to the centre line, and end up with a 45 degree shoulder ready for the ballast.

think I have some in my stash.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: ntpntpntp on September 07, 2019, 11:26:02 AM
I'm sure you can get rolls of the cork, about an inch wide, with a 45 degree cut down the centre.

Yes you can.

To be honest though it's just as easy to buy a sheet or roll and cut it into strips yourself with a craft knife and steel rule. Much cheaper that way, from sources other than model railway shops. There are loads of sellers on ebay, the last roll I bought came from a fridge magnet shop!

After laying the track, I just run a knife down the outside edge at 45 degrees if necessary.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Bealman on September 07, 2019, 11:51:56 AM
I'd never even bother with the 45 slope. Just fashioned the shoulder by hand.

Probably why it looks crap!  :-[
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: gavin_t on September 07, 2019, 11:53:21 AM
Cheers @Bealman (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=255) and @ntpntpntp (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5885)

Cork roll it is! Your examples all look like what I would like to achieve. 
You also answered my next question which was where is best to buy it!

To ebay.... :D
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: daveg on September 07, 2019, 01:16:00 PM
To answer your question, Gavin I actually had a huge stock of WS underlay (don't ask!)  :-[ but have to say that it really made life easy but not cheap!

I agree that ballasting can negate any sound dampening qualities an underlay may provide.

If you use a latex based mixture (e.g. 50/50 Copydex/water) to glue the ballast, the sound is reduced compared to a PVA mix and very definitely if you use the DeLuxe Ballast Bond which seems to amplify the noise.

There's a whole section on ballasting methods so worth a good read and if you can, practice on a spare piece of track and board to see which method suits you.

Dave G

Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: LASteve on September 07, 2019, 06:03:46 PM
Cheers @Bealman (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=255) and @ntpntpntp (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5885)

Cork roll it is! Your examples all look like what I would like to achieve. 
You also answered my next question which was where is best to buy it!

To ebay.... :D

This may be of no use whatsoever being as I'm in the US, but I bought cork roll from our equivalent of B&Q or Homebase - it's called "EasyLiner" and is meant for lining drawers or shelves. It's self-adhesive, and the backing has a grid marked in a 1/2 inch grid (we're old school over here) which helped a lot when I was cutting strips. My rolls were 18" x 4' and cost around 10 bucks a pop.

As I said, probably completely useless information, but worth a look.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: crewearpley40 on September 07, 2019, 07:52:18 PM
i would look at suggestions made by dave g and ntpntpntp
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: gavin_t on September 08, 2019, 01:30:44 AM
Right I managed to get a roll of 2mm thick cork in a 1 inch wide roll for  £12 for 15m. Should be plenty for my small project   :D
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: Jeff McGhie on September 11, 2019, 08:56:48 PM
B&Q sell rolls of cork in 2, 4 & 6mm thicknesses. Not all stores stock it but you can order online for delivery to the store next working day.

Much cheaper than buying from model suppliers for a little work.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: crewearpley40 on September 11, 2019, 09:07:33 PM
Theres an article in this months model rail magazine with useful tips and product reviews ballasting
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: springwood on September 22, 2019, 04:12:58 PM
Plenty of thoughts shared here. Model Rail has, in the latest edition, an article on ballasting (in the skills station section) and they review some ballast glues. First in the list is Deluxe Materials' Ballast Bond. Anybody used this? What's it like? Watched a short video they made and the claim is that it is dilute and low enough in surface tension to not require any pre-wetting of the ballast? Is this so? No disturbance to the dry ballast, dries matt in a few hours etc.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: LASteve on September 22, 2019, 04:48:55 PM

you missed the vital step 3.5   :D  :   tap the rails gently with the back of a spoon or similar, to bounce stray ballast grains off the tops of the sleepers before applying the glue.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/79/5885-230719174047.jpeg)

If you use an electric toothbrush, take off the brush head, turn the toothbrush on and hold the metal spindle against the rail.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: crewearpley40 on September 22, 2019, 04:51:23 PM
just use diluted pva with 50 / 50 here
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: springwood on September 22, 2019, 07:47:52 PM
LASteve - not sure why you have included the line from ntpntpntp's post and the picture??  :hmmm:
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: daveg on September 22, 2019, 08:03:33 PM
I'm not that keen on Ballst Bond.

Take a look at my reply #51 to see what I've found.

HTH

Dave G
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: crewearpley40 on September 22, 2019, 08:06:23 PM
dave this ?


If you use a latex based mixture (e.g. 50/50 Copydex/water) to glue the ballast, the sound is reduced compared to a PVA mix and very definitely if you use the DeLuxe Ballast Bond which seems to amplify the noise.
Title: Re: ballasting tips
Post by: springwood on September 22, 2019, 08:25:19 PM
Didn't know you could dilute copydex down..
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