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General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Continental N Gauge => Topic started by: Globibahn on October 06, 2018, 08:48:48 AM

Title: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 06, 2018, 08:48:48 AM
Hi all,

Rather than keep posting new threads, I thought I'd just keep updating this thread as my layout progresses.

Proposed scenario: a present day scene in a small town in a hilly part of central/southern Germany, focused around the newly built station on the outskirts. There will be a mix of countryside and town elements. Being a local travel hub, the station has a decent sized bus station adjacent. There will probably be an abandoned signal box from a previous phase of the station's history. After leaving the station, the line enters a short ICE-style tunnel under the town's nearby hill. The station is accessed from a main road (Bahnhoffstrasse) which crosses the layout from left to right, crossing the tracks with bridges.

Track: dead simple, it's just two seperate loops. It's the first time I've done this, so I've a lot to learn! Ballast either grey or light brown. Raised on 2mm cork with shoulder.

Scenery: I want to make the tunnel portals, platforms, fir trees (I've already been busy making these - see pic :)) and deciduous trees by myself from scratch. Will probably use a mix of kits and scratch built for buildings, depending on how things go. I'd love to see some lighting, however that may need to be done as a phase 2 operation.

Measurements: the baseboard is 865mm x 1380mm (9mm ply braced underneath). It's going to be raised up to about 90cm on two pedestals on castors (see attached doodle).

Next thing on the 'to do' list is varnishing the baseboard underside. Not sure if I should do the top? Then I need to construct the pedestals. Wish me luck!  :wave:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-061018084230.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69755)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-061018084258.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69756)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-061018084353.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69757)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-061018084419.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69758)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Bealman on October 06, 2018, 09:07:00 AM
Looking good!  :thumbsup:

Personally, I don't see any point in varnishing either side of the board, unless it's going on a boat!

Just watching trains going round is going to pall pretty quickly though. Some sidings are required to add interest.  :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on October 06, 2018, 09:09:59 AM
I’d paint the top surface.
I generally paint grey under the track and green/brown elsewhere. That way any gaps in ballasting won’t show and similarly any gaps in scenery (eg fields etc) won’t show through as bare wood.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: daffy on October 06, 2018, 01:14:56 PM
You have a nice idea of what you want to acheive scenics wise, but like Bealman I have concerns about you sticking to just two unlinked track loops.
Of course it all depends on whether the scenics are more important to you than the running of trains, but my advice, for what it’s worth, would be to run trains on your current track set up for a while, perhaps placing some temporary scenics like tunnels, stations etc, and see if it holds your interest just to have two trains going round in never decreasing circles.

It would be sad if you built up all the finished quality scenics on the existing track plan only to find the layout of limited pleasure usage.

I’m short, think about ‘playability’. Crossovers, sidings, passing loops, raised track sections and all manner of other possibilities can make for an exciting and interesting layout that I don’t believe two single unconnected loops will have in the long term.

There any many fine small layouts illustrated throughout this forum that show the enormous possibilities. Look at many, take your time in planning, and enjoy the overall experience. And don’t forget to ask a million questions of the many here who have previously tried the path you are on and learnt by their mistakes and experience.

But whatever you build, remember that if you like it then that’s all that matters.

Best of luck with whatever you build, and I look forward to seeing your progress.

 :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 06, 2018, 02:23:14 PM
I'm inclined to agree with the comments that perhaps you will get more "fun" out of the end result if you consider just a little more than two separate ovals. Adding a siding or two or a small passing loop just gives you that little bit more to do.  Have a look at the track plan for Noch's "Staufen" preformed layout, a similar size to yours.   Yes it is a bit "train-set" style and uses small points and tight curves, but they've given it some operational interest.

https://media.noch.de/filestore/2/4/6/4_98dcc6132d211e2/2464_6b75ef366baf44a.pdf (https://media.noch.de/filestore/2/4/6/4_98dcc6132d211e2/2464_6b75ef366baf44a.pdf)

Regarding painting/varnishing the board:  don't bother varnishing the top,  better to leave a surface that willl take glue and paint better.  Consider painting the underside white, it makes it much easier to see and work with any wiring etc. 
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Newportnobby on October 06, 2018, 03:16:38 PM
I’m short

Aha - something else we learn about you, Mike :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: daffy on October 06, 2018, 03:45:24 PM
I’m short

Aha - something else we learn about you, Mike :D

Typos make the world a better place! :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 06, 2018, 05:09:10 PM
You have a nice idea of what you want to acheive scenics wise, but like Bealman I have concerns about you sticking to just two unlinked track loops.
Of course it all depends on whether the scenics are more important to you than the running of trains, but my advice, for what it’s worth, would be to run trains on your current track set up for a while, perhaps placing some temporary scenics like tunnels, stations etc, and see if it holds your interest just to have two trains going round in never decreasing circles.

It would be sad if you built up all the finished quality scenics on the existing track plan only to find the layout of limited pleasure usage.

I’m short, think about ‘playability’. Crossovers, sidings, passing loops, raised track sections and all manner of other possibilities can make for an exciting and interesting layout that I don’t believe two single unconnected loops will have in the long term.

There any many fine small layouts illustrated throughout this forum that show the enormous possibilities. Look at many, take your time in planning, and enjoy the overall experience. And don’t forget to ask a million questions of the many here who have previously tried the path you are on and learnt by their mistakes and experience.

But whatever you build, remember that if you like it then that’s all that matters.

Best of luck with whatever you build, and I look forward to seeing your progress.

 :beers:

I'm so glad I joined this forum! I agree I should set up basic elements and play for a while before gluing anything down. I like the suggested Noch layout, I might make some improvements based on that and similar plans. I love the problem solving aspect in the layout planning, really gets the grey matter activated like nothing else!  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 06, 2018, 08:15:26 PM
I modified this concept from a Kato layout example - would this work? (I've already purchased the R3 and R3A curves, would prefer to use them).
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-061018201513.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69819)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 06, 2018, 08:43:40 PM
Gradients might be a bit steep? 

On the right hand side you're basically expecting the gradient to rise from ground level at the start of the curve and be high enough to cross the other ground level track after little more than a semi circle of track.  What sort of length will that curve be - use a piece a string to roughly measure it, and assume you need to rise by a least 4cm. That will allow you to calculate the gradient. If it's getting more severe than say 1 in 30 then you may struggle. Also remember that a gradient on a curve makes matters worse in terms of drag that the loco will have to overcome.

The gradient on the left is likely to be similar, but the curve is tighter.

You have the curves and the loco, get some scraps of wood and mock up the gradient, see how it looks and how it performs?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 07, 2018, 08:55:29 AM
Gradients might be a bit steep? 

On the right hand side you're basically expecting the gradient to rise from ground level at the start of the curve and be high enough to cross the other ground level track after little more than a semi circle of track.  What sort of length will that curve be - use a piece a string to roughly measure it, and assume you need to rise by a least 4cm. That will allow you to calculate the gradient. If it's getting more severe than say 1 in 30 then you may struggle. Also remember that a gradient on a curve makes matters worse in terms of drag that the loco will have to overcome.

The gradient on the left is likely to be similar, but the curve is tighter.

You have the curves and the loco, get some scraps of wood and mock up the gradient, see how it looks and how it performs?

I hear you! Will ponder..... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 07, 2018, 08:56:23 AM
Might play with this concept....
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-071018085614.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69834)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Bealman on October 07, 2018, 09:19:48 AM
As suggested earlier, a passing loop is a good idea, as you can park a train there, while another one passes through.

Plus, you can have the locomotive run around it's train, couple at other end,  and head off in the other direction.

It's all about flexibility and not getting bored  :thumbsup: :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on October 07, 2018, 09:37:26 AM
I think I’d convert Siding 1 into a run round loop (for the reasons put forward by Bealman). Plus, I’d very simply add a 3rd siding coming off of Siding number 2. Perhaps the whole area around Sidings 2and 3 could become a goods yard.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on October 07, 2018, 10:01:06 AM
Might play with this concept....
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-071018085614.png[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69834[/url])


I think you're getting somewhere now. :thumbsup: German trains normally run on the right but the addition of the crossover will enable you to have some bi-directional running to gain access to the bay platform at the station. Assuming that the other siding will be some kind of freight facility the crossover will give access from the normal running line (reverse in).When the freight train is shunting on the inner loop a passenger train (either an IC or a local from the bay platform) can be running on the outer loop. Just by adding a couple of sidings and a crossover you have created the potential for many operating scenarios.
As suggested by "port perran" another siding at the freight facility would be good but personally I wouldn't put a lot of importance on the runround loop at the moment as modern German trains tend to be either loco-hauled push/pull or units. In saying this I am assuming that your main interest lies in passenger operations and that the occasional freight working will just give a bit of added interest.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 07, 2018, 02:08:34 PM
Thanks for the layout feedback Swisstrains and everbody! I think the scenario suggested with a goods area (which could also double as a passenger train storage/maintenance area) works nicely.

Is anybody out there very au-fait with the Fleischmann/Roco non-ballasted track system who can tell me if I've selected the correct points to purchase? I'd rather have 15 degree where possible for a smooth transition.

Cheers
Matt


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-071018140807.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69841)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on October 07, 2018, 09:17:47 PM
Hi Matt.
I don't know a great deal about Fleischmann track but from what I gather the 22265 has a diverging radius of about 14.2" and the 22253 is only about 7.6" (Sorry to talk in inches.....it's an age thing  ;) )
Any reason why you have selected 22253 turnouts for the mainline crossover?  22265's would be more suited to a mainline crossover if you can fit them in.
On the real railway it is more beneficial for trains crossing between running lines to do so at a higher speed than they would if they were entering a dead-end siding.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 07, 2018, 09:52:01 PM
Hi Matt.
I don't know a great deal about Fleischmann track but from what I gather the 22265 has a diverging radius of about 14.2" and the 22253 is only about 7.6" (Sorry to talk in inches.....it's an age thing  ;) )
Any reason why you have selected 22253 turnouts for the mainline crossover?  22265's would be more suited to a mainline crossover if you can fit them in.
On the real railway it is more beneficial for trains crossing between running lines to do so at a higher speed than they would if they were entering a dead-end siding.

Hi,

I agree with you, a shallow angle (i.e. the 22265's) would be better for the crossover. I'll check with Gaugemaster if they will fit neatly and use them instead.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on October 07, 2018, 10:28:00 PM
Hello Matt

I have a similar layout under construction; a double track main line.  Strangely enough, I don't have a crossover between the two running lines as, in a previous layout with one, I almost never used it!

Are you using DC or DCC control - sorry if you have mentioned this and I've not seen it?

If DC, unless you have several switched sections, your siding on the 'outer' main line won't give you an extra train.  It might be helpful to have a second siding, that way you can easily have two trains.  As suggested earlier, a loop will give the same advantage.

I hope you don't mind, but I've taken the liberty of including a picture showing my track layout just in case it helps.  There are five sidings which enables the layout to have five trains.  Of course, it is configured for British left-hand running.  For a German layout, it will be right-hand running I expect.  It certainly has been anywhere I have seen German railways.


Best wishes for your project.

John

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/6222-071018222247.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69857)

AAAAAAArgh its so tidy!!!!!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 08, 2018, 07:30:22 AM
Hello Matt

I have a similar layout under construction; a double track main line.  Strangely enough, I don't have a crossover between the two running lines as, in a previous layout with one, I almost never used it!

Are you using DC or DCC control - sorry if you have mentioned this and I've not seen it?

If DC, unless you have several switched sections, your siding on the 'outer' main line won't give you an extra train.  It might be helpful to have a second siding, that way you can easily have two trains.  As suggested earlier, a loop will give the same advantage.

I hope you don't mind, but I've taken the liberty of including a picture showing my track layout just in case it helps.  There are five sidings which enables the layout to have five trains.  Of course, it is configured for British left-hand running.  For a German layout, it will be right-hand running I expect.  It certainly has been anywhere I have seen German railways.


Best wishes for your project.

John

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/6222-071018222247.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69857[/url])

AAAAAAArgh its so tidy!!!!!


Hi John,

Very nice layout, thanks for including the pic! Nice to see a similar project underway. Is yours DCC or DC? My idea was to start DC but to change to DCC in the future as I get more DCC locos. I assume I would need a crossover if I went DCC, otherwise the two main lines wouldn't talk to each other?

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 08, 2018, 08:49:47 AM
I assume I would need a crossover if I went DCC, otherwise the two main lines wouldn't talk to each other?

Surely whether or not you have a crossover is an operational choice (how you want to run your trains on the layout), and applies equally to DC or DCC.         If you install one then it's there when you need it, and it adds a little more operational possibilities. Make sure you use isolating joiners between the two points, then you're all set for DC and it will also work fine for DCC.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on October 08, 2018, 09:24:10 AM
Many thanks, Matt.

My layout is DC.  Nick has answered your crossover and DCC question much better than I could; thank you Nick.

Nick is correct about the crossover.  It opens up more operational possibilities.  From my own experience with a recent layout, I almost never took advantage of these possibilities, so I didn't install one on my present layout.  To date, I have not had an operating session where I have missed it.  But I tend to like to sit with coffee/tea/foaming ale/wine, according to the time of day, and watch the trains run round!

If in doubt, best to install a crossover and wait and see if you use it when you start operating the layout.

If starting with DC, an additional siding on the outside track (if possible on your baseboard) would be an easy way to have more fun!

All the very best.

John

AAAAAAArgh its so tidy!!!!!


Many thanks @Railwaygun (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=941) !  Best wishes, John.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 08, 2018, 01:01:08 PM
I assume I would need a crossover if I went DCC, otherwise the two main lines wouldn't talk to each other?

Surely whether or not you have a crossover is an operational choice (how you want to run your trains on the layout), and applies equally to DC or DCC.         If you install one then it's there when you need it, and it adds a little more operational possibilities. Make sure you use isolating joiners between the two points, then you're all set for DC and it will also work fine for DCC.

Thank you ntpntpntp! Here's a question which really reveals my newcomer status: If I make the crossover isolated, won't that present a problem when and if I ever make the layout DCC? Would I need to lift the points and remove the isolating fishplates?

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 08, 2018, 01:03:13 PM
Many thanks, Matt.

My layout is DC.  Nick has answered your crossover and DCC question much better than I could; thank you Nick.

Nick is correct about the crossover.  It opens up more operational possibilities.  From my own experience with a recent layout, I almost never took advantage of these possibilities, so I didn't install one on my present layout.  To date, I have not had an operating session where I have missed it.  But I tend to like to sit with coffee/tea/foaming ale/wine, according to the time of day, and watch the trains run round!

If in doubt, best to install a crossover and wait and see if you use it when you start operating the layout.

If starting with DC, an additional siding on the outside track (if possible on your baseboard) would be an easy way to have more fun!

All the very best.

John

AAAAAAArgh its so tidy!!!!!


Many thanks @Railwaygun ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=941[/url]) !  Best wishes, John.


Cheers John, am I correct in thinking that with DC and one loop, you need 2 sidings to run two trains?  :hmmm:
Cheers Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 08, 2018, 01:45:16 PM
Here's a question which really reveals my newcomer status: If I make the crossover isolated, won't that present a problem when and if I ever make the layout DCC? Would I need to lift the points and remove the isolating fishplates?

Not quite sure what would make you think that?   all the time your layout is DC you will have two circuits (inside and outside ovals), each with a pair of wires feeding from a controller.  With two controllers driving the trains in opposite directions, you need to isolate the two sides of the crossover to keep those two circuits separate.   When you wish to run through the crossover you set both controllers to the same speed and direction and the train will pass through quite happily from one to the other.

When you move to DCC all you do is simply join the wires for the two circuits together into a single pair at the DCC command station's output (making sure you match rail to rail). Both ovals are now powered by the same DCC. Leave the isolating joiners where they are, they will do no harm and indeed if you ever need to switch the trackwork back to DC - for example to test some new locos - the layout is still capable.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 08, 2018, 01:56:21 PM

Cheers John, am I correct in thinking that with DC and one loop, you need 2 sidings to run two trains?  :hmmm:
Cheers Matt

Not wishing to jump in on your conversation with John, but basically if you don't want to be physically removing one train to run another one, you need somewhere to park the train(s) - typically one or more siding(s) which can be isolated from power.  A passing loop is another option.  It is possible, with careful driving and with locos having reasonably well matched speeds, to move both locos at the same time, drawing one train out of the siding while the other moves round the oval in front of it. You can then bring both trains round and then reverse the other train into the siding.   **VERY TRICKY ON A SMALL LAYOUT THOUGH!! **.  A better approach would be to have two sidings so that you can run one train in and isolate it before bringing the other one out onto the line.. 
 
Regarding isolating trains in sidings:  I have a feeling the Fleischmann points are not "power routing" unless you remove a little wire link (but I may be confusing with Minitrix points).   Without "power routing" both tracks remain electrically live regardless of which way the point is set. This can be overcome by having one rail of the siding isolated with a joiner, and feeding power to it via an on/off switch.  This is a very common approach on DC layouts.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 08, 2018, 02:13:20 PM
Here's a question which really reveals my newcomer status: If I make the crossover isolated, won't that present a problem when and if I ever make the layout DCC? Would I need to lift the points and remove the isolating fishplates?

Not quite sure what would make you think that?   all the time your layout is DC you will have two circuits (inside and outside ovals), each with a pair of wires feeding from a controller.  With two controllers driving the trains in opposite directions, you need to isolate the two sides of the crossover to keep those two circuits separate.   When you wish to run through the crossover you set both controllers to the same speed and direction and the train will pass through quite happily from one to the other.

When you move to DCC all you do is simply join the wires for the two circuits together into a single pair at the DCC command station's output (making sure you match rail to rail). Both ovals are now powered by the same DCC. Leave the isolating joiners where they are, they will do no harm and indeed if you ever need to switch the trackwork back to DC - for example to test some new locos - the layout is still capable.

Perfect answer, yes I see now how that would work! Thank you for explaining so clearly.

Matt  :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 08, 2018, 02:14:57 PM

Cheers John, am I correct in thinking that with DC and one loop, you need 2 sidings to run two trains?  :hmmm:
Cheers Matt

Not wishing to jump in on your conversation with John, but basically if you don't want to be physically removing one train to run another one, you need somewhere to park the train(s) - typically one or more siding(s) which can be isolated from power.  A passing loop is another option.  It is possible, with careful driving and with locos having reasonably well matched speeds, to move both locos at the same time, drawing one train out of the siding while the other moves round the oval in front of it. You can then bring both trains round and then reverse the other train into the siding.   **VERY TRICKY ON A SMALL LAYOUT THOUGH!! **.  A better approach would be to have two sidings so that you can run one train in and isolate it before bringing the other one out onto the line.. 
 
Regarding isolating trains in sidings:  I have a feeling the Fleischmann points are not "power routing" unless you remove a little wire link (but I may be confusing with Minitrix points).   Without "power routing" both tracks remain electrically live regardless of which way the point is set. This can be overcome by having one rail of the siding isolated with a joiner, and feeding power to it via an on/off switch.  This is a very common approach on DC layouts.

That confirms what I was thinking. Thank you very much for the detailed input - will definitly save me agro in the long run!

Cheers
Matt :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on October 08, 2018, 04:49:20 PM

Cheers John, am I correct in thinking that with DC and one loop, you need 2 sidings to run two trains?  :hmmm:
Cheers Matt


Not wishing to jump in on your conversation with John, but basically if you don't want to be physically removing one train to run another one, you need somewhere to park the train(s) - typically one or more siding(s) which can be isolated from power.  A passing loop is another option.  It is possible, with careful driving and with locos having reasonably well matched speeds, to move both locos at the same time, drawing one train out of the siding while the other moves round the oval in front of it. You can then bring both trains round and then reverse the other train into the siding.   **VERY TRICKY ON A SMALL LAYOUT THOUGH!! **.  A better approach would be to have two sidings so that you can run one train in and isolate it before bringing the other one out onto the line..   


Hello Matt

I concur entirely with what Nick says.  With DC and one siding it's either lift on/off, try the matched speed manoeuvre or arrange the main running oval with three (or more) switched sections.  I actually did this on one layout (since abandoned), thinking it would be fun, but I soon tired of all the switching on and off.  A passing loop gives you two trains easily without reversing movements.  Two sidings give two trains, three sidings three trains and so on, but with reversing movements.

If you kindly look at the picture I posted earlier, the outside oval has capacity for two trains and the inside oval has capacity for three trains, although one is short.  This arrangement is working very well on a 'four by two-and-a-half' layout.  (Say, 1220mm x 760mm).

Here is a amazingly poor quality picture of the switch panel I used to provide three switched sections on a double-track oval.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/6222-081018164657.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69888)

All the best.

John
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 08, 2018, 04:59:44 PM
Hi John,

I'm getting this now. I may even do what I've mocked-up here (with DC in mind), which I believe would give me 2 long trains on the outer loop and 1 long and 1 shorter train on the inner (using reversing of course). That's basically doubled the number of trains I thought I could have!  :claphappy:

Another question: how do you turn on and off isolated sidings? I imagine I'd need to make a switch panel like yours, John.

Matt
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-081018165758.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69889)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on October 08, 2018, 07:11:57 PM
Hi John,

I'm getting this now. I may even do what I've mocked-up here (with DC in mind), which I believe would give me 2 long trains on the outer loop and 1 long and 1 shorter train on the inner (using reversing of course). That's basically doubled the number of trains I thought I could have!  :claphappy:

Another question: how do you turn on and off isolated sidings? I imagine I'd need to make a switch panel like yours, John.

Matt


([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-081018165758.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69889[/url])


Hello Matt

That looks to be a very nice plan.  As your layout is to be set in Germany, I assume that the outer oval will run anti-clockwise and the inner oval clockwise.  That's the opposite to what you will see in British and French layouts.

If that's the case, I suggest that you make the inner oval sidings start at the right-hand side.  That way, trains running round the oval, while you enjoy watching them, will encounter the points in what is called the 'trailing direction'.  This is prototypical and will probably give better running and fewer derailments at the points.  You will also drive out of sidings and reverse in on both ovals.

There is another advantage to this.  I think many members of the Forum would advise you to have a short straight between a curve and a set of points, particularly 'facing points' (sorry about this jargon - if you don't understand anything please feel free to ask.  There are many very knowledgeable people who will help you!).  If you arrange your inner oval points as I suggest, you will have a lovely long straight between the curve and the points for normal running.  When you are reversing into the siding the train will be travelling  slowly and derailments will be less likely.  Certainly, I have no trouble reversing into the sidings on my layout.  I suggest that you test this before fixing your track down, just to make sure.

Finally, the points that we buy can normally be 'self-isolating' or 'route switching' when used with DC.  This means that the route that the points are set for is electrically 'live' and the other route is 'dead'.  This can get more involved with complicated layouts which have complex junctions and suchlike.  But, for your layout, this will be the case.  Please check with the retailer of the make of track that you are going to use.  (I use Peco or Kato.)  If this is the case, there is no need for a switch panel.  My present layout has no electrical switches.  A twin track controller (Gaugemaster and nearly 30 years old) is all I have - just like a train set!  My points are manually operated.

One final thought.  If you plan on converting to DCC at a later date, I think that will require a different approach to the points.  I know almost nothing of DCC but there are many members on the Forum who will give you expert advice.

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 09, 2018, 07:51:07 AM

Hello Matt

That looks to be a very nice plan.  As your layout is to be set in Germany, I assume that the outer oval will run anti-clockwise and the inner oval clockwise.  That's the opposite to what you will see in British and French layouts.

If that's the case, I suggest that you make the inner oval sidings start at the right-hand side.  That way, trains running round the oval, while you enjoy watching them, will encounter the points in what is called the 'trailing direction'.  This is prototypical and will probably give better running and fewer derailments at the points.  You will also drive out of sidings and reverse in on both ovals.

There is another advantage to this.  I think many members of the Forum would advise you to have a short straight between a curve and a set of points, particularly 'facing points' (sorry about this jargon - if you don't understand anything please feel free to ask.  There are many very knowledgeable people who will help you!).  If you arrange your inner oval points as I suggest, you will have a lovely long straight between the curve and the points for normal running.  When you are reversing into the siding the train will be travelling  slowly and derailments will be less likely.  Certainly, I have no trouble reversing into the sidings on my layout.  I suggest that you test this before fixing your track down, just to make sure.

Finally, the points that we buy can normally be 'self-isolating' or 'route switching' when used with DC.  This means that the route that the points are set for is electrically 'live' and the other route is 'dead'.  This can get more involved with complicated layouts which have complex junctions and suchlike.  But, for your layout, this will be the case.  Please check with the retailer of the make of track that you are going to use.  (I use Peco or Kato.)  If this is the case, there is no need for a switch panel.  My present layout has no electrical switches.  A twin track controller (Gaugemaster and nearly 30 years old) is all I have - just like a train set!  My points are manually operated.

One final thought.  If you plan on converting to DCC at a later date, I think that will require a different approach to the points.  I know almost nothing of DCC but there are many members on the Forum who will give you expert advice.

Best wishes.

John


Hi John,

Wow thanks for the great advice, please see ammendments made in line with this.

Two questions though: firstly, is it bad to have two points directly in sequence as with the red and green points highlighted and secondly, do you suggest a 10cm straight between my curved track and all the other points or can I get away with less for reliable running?


Much appreciated
Matt

P.s. my sidings on the inner loop are likely to arc inwards more steeply than shown, so I can make the tracks a little longer.
P.p.s how close do people generally go to the edge of baseboards with their track work?

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-091018074914.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69897)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on October 09, 2018, 08:12:36 AM
I know nothing about Fleichmann track but my Peco ones work fine next to each other.
Also your points seem to have a longish section built in (or is that my eyes?). With Peco it’s generally advisable to put a small straight in before the point but with yours that may not be necessary.
I think you have allowed enough space between the track and baseboard edge. You just don’t want any expensive locos taking a plunge.
And,  I really like the way that you’ve skewed the oval a bit so that it’s not dead central on the board. A nifty idea.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 09, 2018, 08:20:42 AM
I know nothing about Fleichmann track but my Peco ones work fine next to each other.
Also your points seem to have a longish section built in (or is that my eyes?). With Peco it’s generally advisable to put a small straight in before the point but with yours that may not be necessary.
I think you have allowed enough space between the track and baseboard edge. You just don’t want any expensive locos taking a plunge.
And,  I really like the way that you’ve skewed the oval a bit so that it’s not dead central on the board. A nifty idea.

Thanks Port Perran - the skew was another member's idea, it does work well!

Actually I have not purchased any points yet, I'm just mocking up with bits of straight laying about... but you are correct, I have mocked up with straights before the points.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Bealman on October 09, 2018, 08:31:20 AM
 Agree with everything PP has said above.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on October 09, 2018, 09:18:31 AM
Hi John,

Wow thanks for the great advice, please see ammendments made in line with this.

Two questions though: firstly, is it bad to have two points directly in sequence as with the red and green points highlighted and secondly, do you suggest a 10cm straight between my curved track and all the other points or can I get away with less for reliable running?


Much appreciated
Matt

P.s. my sidings on the inner loop are likely to arc inwards more steeply than shown, so I can make the tracks a little longer.
P.p.s how close do people generally go to the edge of baseboards with their track work?

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-091018074914.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69897[/url])



Hello Matt

Thank you for your kind comments.  I think the latest version of your plan is excellent.

I agree completely with Martin's @port perran (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=230) comments.  Very sound advice from an expert layout builder.  If you have not already seen them, I recommend his Port Perran and Trepol Bay and Tregonning threads which are truly inspirational.

As for your questions, my experience is:


Approached in the facing direction, a short straight is advisable between a curve and the switch of the point (the point blades).  Like this: 
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/6222-091018084957.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69899)

This is my last layout, moribund at present.  It is configured for British operation, so the faraway track runs left to right and the nearest track runs right to left.  It is Kato 'Unitrack', which is very good.  The points are for loops.  The faraway one is approached in the facing direction and I found, after experimentation (yes; 'wheels on the ballast') that a straight track was required between the point and the curve.  I experimented with various Kato 'Unitrack' lengths and found the 45mm track piece the shortest one which gave completely reliable running.  Of course, much depends on the trains that one is running.  In my experience steam locomotives were more prone to derailment than diesels.

Please note that the nearest track has no short straight.  The trains run over the point in the trailing direction and gave no difficulties whatsoever.  The resulting asymmetric loops gave the longest loop length possible commensurate with a short straight where required.

This second picture, from my present train set layout,
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/6222-091018085027.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69900)
shows a point traversed in the trailing direction and leading on to a curve, which is working very reliably.  The diverging track of that point then leads to two other points in a 'ladder' formation.  There are no straight tracks between the points.  Of course, these points are traversed at slow speed, but they give no difficulties at all.  (Well, there can be one potential difficulty, but it's not relevant here, I think.)  The track, in this case, is Peco 'Setrack' which I like very much.  The points are a small radius at 9" (228mm), but work well.  The Kato points in the first picture are of 718mm radius.

With regard to track near the baseboard edge, it is best to allow room for a train to derail at speed without falling off.  And, more likely in my case, one can easily knock a train off the rails when leaning over the baseboard!  I allow a minimum of 45mm for this.

With best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 09, 2018, 10:03:51 AM
Thank you John and Bealman, that's a really clear explanation.

Now that the plan is modified to have all trains running the main lines meeting points in the trailing direction, it seems I may get away without putting a short straight in before them (correct me if I'm wrong). Have you been fine in your new layout with slowly reversing trains off the mainline curves into your sidings in a facing direction without the short straight? I will do some tests of my own as soon as my sidings arrive.

Cheers
Matt :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on October 09, 2018, 09:37:54 PM
Hi Matt,
30 years ago I modelled British outline myself and experienced many of the derailing problems being talked about, especially with the bogies and pony trucks of steam locos and from what is being said I think this must still be a problem.
My current Swiss layout is Peco Code 55 track/points with a small number of Minitrix points and I can honestly say that I never have any derailments caused by the trackwork. I have points immediately after and before curves, points on gradients (both up and down and curved), facing points taken at full speed etc. etc.
What I am trying to say is that you will be unlikely to experience many of the derailment problems that are being talked about with the locos and rolling stock that you are likely to be using on a modern German based layout. However, if it makes you feel more confident then it's never a bad thing to carry out some tests before you finally start track laying.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 09, 2018, 09:55:13 PM
Hi Matt,
30 years ago I modelled British outline myself and experienced many of the derailing problems being talked about, especially with the bogies and pony trucks of steam locos and from what is being said I think this must still be a problem.
My current Swiss layout is Peco Code 55 track/points with a small number of Minitrix points and I can honestly say that I never have any derailments caused by the trackwork. I have points immediately after and before curves, points on gradients (both up and down and curved), facing points taken at full speed etc. etc.
What I am trying to say is that you will be unlikely to experience many of the derailment problems that are being talked about with the locos and rolling stock that you are likely to be using on a modern German based layout. However, if it makes you feel more confident then it's never a bad thing to carry out some tests before you finally start track laying.

Thanks for the advice John. I've just ordered the points so I'll be able to play with the proposed layout a while.

I have a new problem though. My only current loco is a DB101 from Fleischmann and very nice it is too. It is factory fitted DCC. I'm running it on DC and the layout will be DC. It runs fine apart from one thing: when starting her up I have to move the dial all the way to 60 and then she sudenly leaps into motion. If I turn it down and then slowly up again I then get the nice slow crawl desired. If the loco is off for any period ishe then reverts to surging the first time she is started up again. Weird!

This is going to present a problem if I'm keeping trains backed up in sidings. If I start the train in the wrong direction, it could easily surge back and crash the bumpers! Should I remove the DCC chip given I'm unlikely to use it for the foreseeable in DCC? I'm a bit scared of opening the loco up!

Matt  :hmmm: :confused2:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 09, 2018, 11:47:35 PM
My only current loco is a DB101 from Fleischmann and very nice it is too. It is factory fitted DCC. I'm running it on DC ... when starting her up I have to move the dial all the way to 60 and then she sudenly leaps into motion. If I turn it down and then slowly up again I then get the nice slow crawl desired.

When you run a decoder fitted loco on DC, the decoder requires 5-6 volts before the electronics can "wake up" and start running its programming, at which point it can then examine the incoming power and recognise it as DC rather than DCC.   As a consequence a DC and a DCC fitted loco of the same model won't usually start and run at the same controller setting.  When you get it moving then turn the controller down a little, then as long as the decoder is still powered up it can continue to power the motor but more slowly.
How well the decoder handles slow starts and stops when it's running on DC can depend on the decoder used and also the acceleration/deceleration CV settings.

Quote
This is going to present a problem if I'm keeping trains backed up in sidings. If I start the train in the wrong direction, it could easily surge back and crash the bumpers! Should I remove the DCC chip given I'm unlikely to use it for the foreseeable in DCC? I'm a bit scared of opening the loco up!

If you're not going to run DCC for a while then yes I'd say replace the decoder with a blanking plate for now, just so that you get a more direct response to the controller especially in the low speed range.
My layout is DC, and I have a large fleet of locos, some dating back to the 60s, so I have no desire to move to DCC. A small handful of my fleet are or were DCC fitted, and most of those have had their decoders swapped out.

I like 101s!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/5885-091018235047.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69942)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 10, 2018, 07:15:59 AM
Hi ntpntpntp,

I love your 101 collection, yes, they're good looking locos! Nice simple, clean lines.

Your response confirms my suspicions. I'm struggling to find any good resources or videos showing DCC chip removal and blanking being done on this type of loco, do you know of any?

If I just use the box instructions, is it terribly difficult to perform? I don't usually do electronics, but the closest thing I've done is installing RAM and HDDs in computers!

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 10, 2018, 08:59:22 AM
Should be just a case of removing the bodyshell, removing the decoder and replacing with a blanking plate making sure you orientate it correctly.   Literally a minute's work. Did it come with a blanking plate?  They're not difficult to get hold of but different brands of plate may not be exactly the same size. Fleischmann often seem to mount the decoder vertically on one side of the chassis rather than across the top.

My 101s are the original Roco model, I don't know how much has been re-tooled when Roco became part of Fleischmann, or whether it's a totally different chassis.    Given that the 101 was one of Roco's last new N models and cost a lot to develop I'd have thought as much as possible would have been retained.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 10, 2018, 09:18:49 AM
Should be just a case of removing the bodyshell, removing the decoder and replacing with a blanking plate making sure you orientate it correctly.   


Hi, you're right the 'lid' came off very easily!

Here's a pic of what I'm guessing is the chip. Is the black plastic part of the chip and should it slide off with the chip? I guess I put the blanking plug on (I've contacted Gaugemaaster to see if they have one) and leave the chip tucked up in the roof of the 101 somewhere.

Cheers
Matt


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-101018091753.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69943)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on October 10, 2018, 09:25:45 AM
Thank you John and Bealman, that's a really clear explanation.

Now that the plan is modified to have all trains running the main lines meeting points in the trailing direction, it seems I may get away without putting a short straight in before them (correct me if I'm wrong). Have you been fine in your new layout with slowly reversing trains off the mainline curves into your sidings in a facing direction without the short straight? I will do some tests of my own as soon as my sidings arrive.

Cheers
Matt :beers:

Hello Matt

Thank you for this.  The answer, I'm glad to say, is yes.

The best test of this is the 'inner oval', what I call the Down main line.  The end curves are Peco 'Setrack' No. 2 radius (263.5mm) and the points are No. 1 radius (228mm).  If I use the first siding, next to the main line, the effect is a 228mm reverse curve over points.  Asking for trouble, particularly with bogie coaches: maybe!  Therefore, I normally use the second, or middle, siding for passenger trains and the first siding for goods trains with short wheelbase wagons.

To answer your question as truly as I can, I have made a short film of a Great Western locomotive reversing a passenger train into the first siding!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4iztjz6dk5b5lxs/Reversing%20for%20Matt.MOV?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4iztjz6dk5b5lxs/Reversing%20for%20Matt.MOV?dl=0)

I'm sorry that the train appears a tad 'jerky' in motion.  It's not like that in reality and I have had this problem before.  Perhaps a better camera is required!

Best wishes.

John

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 10, 2018, 09:39:42 AM
I sure as heck hope this is the decoder, because it's out now (and unharmed)!

May need a gin now!!! :thumbsup:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-101018093930.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69944)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 10, 2018, 09:54:29 AM
Hello Matt

Thank you for this.  The answer, I'm glad to say, is yes.

The best test of this is the 'inner oval', what I call the Down main line.  The end curves are Peco 'Setrack' No. 2 radius (263.5mm) and the points are No. 1 radius (228mm).  If I use the first siding, next to the main line, the effect is a 228mm reverse curve over points.  Asking for trouble, particularly with bogie coaches: maybe!  Therefore, I normally use the second, or middle, siding for passenger trains and the first siding for goods trains with short wheelbase wagons.

To answer your question as truly as I can, I have made a short film of a Great Western locomotive reversing a passenger train into the first siding!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4iztjz6dk5b5lxs/Reversing%20for%20Matt.MOV?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4iztjz6dk5b5lxs/Reversing%20for%20Matt.MOV?dl=0)

I'm sorry that the train appears a tad 'jerky' in motion.  It's not like that in reality and I have had this problem before.  Perhaps a better camera is required!

Best wishes.

John

Hi John,

Wow, you're actually reversing in much faster than I believed possible. Hope my setup works as well, if so I'll be able to zoom my trains about very efficiently, and Matt's DBAG won't get any fines for late running of services!  :bounce:

On a serious note, once my loco DCC socket is blanked off, I'm looking forward to some nice smooth steady slow speeds.

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 10, 2018, 12:44:57 PM
I sure as heck hope this is the decoder, because it's out now (and unharmed)!

May need a gin now!!! :thumbsup:
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-101018093930.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69944[/url])


Yep, that's the decoder removed.  As you can see, with the vertical socket there's not enough room to plug in a decoder so they've basically used a wired decoder and soldered the wires to an NEM651l plug.
your problem is going to be finding a small blanking plate, otherwise you'd end up having to do the same sort of wiring job from the blanking plate to the socket.

This is what you need, it's a very small blanking plate - though don't buy from here as the postage is stupidly high (though I think that is mostly down to ebay rules)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fleischmann-00664002-Stecker-fur-Schnittstelle-6-polig-NEU-/361847408708 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fleischmann-00664002-Stecker-fur-Schnittstelle-6-polig-NEU-/361847408708)

Need to find a UK shop to get you one.

[edit]  I notice the lights are wired to the decoder - that could be a problem, usually the lights would be wired to the board with the DCC socket. It may be the lighting wiring would need to be soldered to the blanking plate.  I'll have to have a look at one of my modern Fleischmann locos with the same socket, and see how they wire the lights.
Hmm... seems not as straight-forward as I would have expected  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 10, 2018, 01:38:37 PM

Yep, that's the decoder removed.  As you can see, with the vertical socket there's not enough room to plug in a decoder so they've basically used a wired decoder and soldered the wires to an NEM651l plug.
your problem is going to be finding a small blanking plate, otherwise you'd end up having to do the same sort of wiring job from the blanking plate to the socket.

This is what you need, it's a very small blanking plate - though don't buy from here as the postage is stupidly high (though I think that is mostly down to ebay rules)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fleischmann-00664002-Stecker-fur-Schnittstelle-6-polig-NEU-/361847408708 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fleischmann-00664002-Stecker-fur-Schnittstelle-6-polig-NEU-/361847408708)

Need to find a UK shop to get you one.

[edit]  I notice the lights are wired to the decoder - that could be a problem, usually the lights would be wired to the board with the DCC socket. It may be the lighting wiring would need to be soldered to the blanking plate.  I'll have to have a look at one of my modern Fleischmann locos with the same socket, and see how they wire the lights.
Hmm... seems not as straight-forward as I would have expected  :hmmm:

Yes looks more tricky than we thought! I may have to learn to solder then ha ha. Yes any info appreciated.

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 10, 2018, 07:03:12 PM
So... I don't have a Fleischmann BR101, but I do have other very similar models. There have been quite a variety of chassis variations over the years, the closest I can find to yours is this BR145.

Mine has never been a DCC fitted loco, you can see there is a socket with the small blanking plate but the lighting boards are fed by the metal clips which come up from the main board underneath the loco (and hence the lights are powered via the socket as I would expect).

By comparison, on your chassis the clips are onto plastic mouldings and also one pair is shorter to make room for the decoder.  Unfortunately it looks like swapping out the decoder for a blanking plate *on your particular loco* isn't simple after all. You would need to obtain alternative lighting boards like the ones on mine (and a set of clips), or do some serious hard-wiring which you'd have to revert when you eventually go to DCC and want to reinstate the decoder.

Sorry for mis-informing you, I really did expect it to be simple but it seems even Fleischmann have gone for a rather non-standard factory DCC install on your 101!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/5885-101018185302.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69958)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 10, 2018, 08:16:47 PM
By comparison, on your chassis the clips are onto plastic mouldings and also one pair is shorter to make room for the decoder.  Unfortunately it looks like swapping out the decoder for a blanking plate *on your particular loco* isn't simple after all. You would need to obtain alternative lighting boards like the ones on mine (and a set of clips), or do some serious hard-wiring which you'd have to revert when you eventually go to DCC and want to reinstate the decoder.

Sorry for mis-informing you, I really did expect it to be simple but it seems even Fleischmann have gone for a rather non-standard factory DCC install on your 101!



Thanks ntpntpntp for going through so much trouble for me! Yes, the BR145 seems a similar setup.

I forgot to mention, in running the 101 as DCC on DC, the lights didn't work anyway. So by swapping in a blanking plug I don't lose anything really. The critical thing is that the loco doesn't cause any crashes into buffers in the sidings with sudden accidental lurching.

Only thing now is to find a supplier for the blanking plug. And at least I have learnt how to remove (and consequently to install) a decoder!

Cheers
Matt

P.s. is a British product like this incompatible?
http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GF379-428&style=main&strType=&Mcode=Graham+Farish+379%2D428 (http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GF379-428&style=main&strType=&Mcode=Graham+Farish+379%2D428)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 13, 2018, 10:19:16 AM
So I'm making good headway with constructing the plinths/trolleys on which my layout will sit (ignore track layout - just playing with my new points which arrived yesterday).

Here is also the latest illustration of the layout plan: not sure if I should make the crossover right hand as shown (meaning mainline trains have to back up over it to change tracks) or the other way. The current configuration would give the benefit of trailing direction, however I suppose it is not very prototypical for mainline trains to stop and reverse to change tracks! If its left I'll have only left hand points on the layout, is that weird?  :hmmm:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-131018101702.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69989)



(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-131018101835.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69990)



(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/7020-131018101901.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69991)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 13, 2018, 11:03:34 AM
Well, let's be honest it's not very prototypical for mainline trains to go round and round in circles either  :D     

You could always  have a facing crossover and a trailing crossover so you can change loops whenever you want.  That's basically what I have - crossovers either end of the station area to give access into and out of the freight loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/5885-131018110130.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=69992)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 13, 2018, 11:24:45 AM
Well, let's be honest it's not very prototypical for mainline trains to go round and round in circles either  :D     

Ha ha yes I suppose you are correct! Next you'll be telling me tht German intercity trains are more likely to consist of 15 carriages rather than just 3!  :D

Playing with the points, I now realise this adds a massive dimension of interest and fun to the layout - they're great!

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 15, 2018, 04:39:28 PM
I've got my layout table pretty much done now (set at 90cm height). That was a job of work! Especially as I made a measuring error and had to do some re-building :-[

I had not anticipated how danged cool it is to see n-gauge trains at close to eye level when seated at the table!  :claphappy:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/7020-151018163747.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70107)



(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/7020-151018163813.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70108)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on October 15, 2018, 04:44:46 PM
That's looking jolly good, Matt.

Congratulations!

I agree completely with your remark about viewing height.


Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on October 15, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
Looks really good.
Now for some modelling.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 17, 2018, 05:40:46 PM
Looks really good.
Now for some modelling.


Thanks Port Perran and John.

I've added a second loco and got a DCC controller. It's great fun but I already had a crash! I forgot the points were set the other way and sent a loco crashing into the rake of coaches (which took a dive off the edge of the layout)!   :-[ :'(

Luckily it's carpet and I just had to clip a roof back on and re-set some wheels in the bogie. Luckily no damage done, live and learn and all that. I'm installing a safety barrier and I'll stick loads of bushes at the end of my sidings. I'll also make sure I keep the trains runing over sidings from trailing direction whenever possible.

On a brighter note, I've been using matchsticks to plan road layouts - reminds me of making matchstick towns on the carpet when I was a child!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/7020-171018173846.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70156)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on October 17, 2018, 07:04:29 PM
That's certainly looking like my kind of layout, Matt.

Good luck with the DCC control.  I understand that it can do amazing things.

I think it is marvellous that you are building a layout set in Germany.  When I was a boy, Model Railway Constructor was full of German layouts, but I don't see that many nowadays.  I look forward to following how your project develops.

John

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 20, 2018, 08:25:01 AM
That's certainly looking like my kind of layout, Matt.

Good luck with the DCC control.  I understand that it can do amazing things.

I think it is marvellous that you are building a layout set in Germany.  When I was a boy, Model Railway Constructor was full of German layouts, but I don't see that many nowadays.  I look forward to following how your project develops.

John

Thanks John - yes it's giving me a lot of enjoyment and the German scene has always interested me the most (with Swiss and Austrian close behind).

Can't believe it I had yet another rail safety incident this morning. The Federal Ministry of Transport may well have to shut down my railway operation if I'm not careful! I went and left the layout unattended for a few moments and didn't realise a loco was ever so slowly creeping backwards. I heard the ghastly sound of carriages falling on the carpet (yet again) and dashed in to look. The whole rake had been pushed off the siding yet again, on the only side of the layout with no safety barrier yet!!!!! All I can say is that Arnold carriages are incredibly robust and bouncy. Just had to stick some wheels back in again and a coupler and a roof.

I've really had enough of this, I'm going to isolate my sidings fairly close to the points. Trains will only be able to reverse in, but that is preferable to more bounce testing of expensive rolling stock.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 28, 2018, 09:45:56 AM
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/7020-281018093620.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70600)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/7020-281018095447.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70602)

Morning all,

Just an update on how things are looking. I've finally got all my track and points linked up, on advice of members I'm going to leave it like this for a while just to play and iron out any issues. I'm so glad I now have sidings and a crossover to play with, it really does add interest! And as can be seen, I am able to store a total of 4 trains with 3 carriages in each siding.

I've done the skeleton structure for the hill and made a little access flap for dealing with subterranean derailments etc.

Station wise I'm ummming and ahhing between kit bashing and having a go at scratch building. I'm quite a fan of the Swiss station buildings designed by Max Vogt (e.g. Stäfa in Zurich) - I've got a really good book of his Swiss stations and signal boxes from 1960 - 1980 or so. They would not look out of place over the border in Germany. Anyway that's something for later on really. The building will be from 1960s onwards I do know that, as the layout is going to be modern image.

I've got my cork underlay also - it's 2mm. Need to work out how to do the curves so I'll have a play with that next.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/7020-281018094241.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70601)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on October 28, 2018, 10:20:15 AM
Looking really good Matt.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 28, 2018, 01:37:04 PM
Looking really good Matt.

Thank you! At times it feels like utterly no progress is being made though. theres also still so much to do. But I guess it would be boring if that were not the case.

I think having track actually glued down will be a key milestone, I'll get the champers out for a mini celebration then!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 28, 2018, 01:47:35 PM
I hope you trained as a vet - looks like it won't be easy to access all that hidden trackwork for cleaning via what is quite a small access hatch!   :D

When laying cork on straight track and gentle curves I use strips approximately 1" wide , but for tight curves I use two 0.5" strips either side of the centre-line for the curve, that way the cork is easier to bend.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 28, 2018, 02:11:37 PM
I hope you trained as a vet - looks like it won't be easy to access all that hidden trackwork for cleaning via what is quite a small access hatch!   :D

When laying cork on straight track and gentle curves I use strips approximately 1" wide , but for tight curves I use two 0.5" strips either side of the centre-line for the curve, that way the cork is easier to bend.

Hmmm yes hadn't considered cleaning the track. Either I'll have to send some Smurfs in to do it for me, or I'll have to improve access! :-[
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 28, 2018, 03:31:38 PM
On reflection, I'll probably just design the whole hill to lift off like a lid. About a third of the junction between hill and flat will be a retaining wall anyway, so it won't be that noticeable (I think).
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on October 28, 2018, 03:40:41 PM
Sounds sensible. That’s a fairly big area to access from that one little hole. Especially when it comes to cleaning the track.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 28, 2018, 04:10:10 PM
When laying cork on straight track and gentle curves I use strips approximately 1" wide , but for tight curves I use two 0.5" strips either side of the centre-line for the curve, that way the cork is easier to bend.

Hey Nick, would it be OK if I made the strip 25.4mm instead of 1 inch, as it's a continental layout?!  :D

On a serious note, I think you've got a good system there, will report back on how I find it!

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 28, 2018, 04:38:11 PM
When laying cork on straight track and gentle curves I use strips approximately 1" wide , but for tight curves I use two 0.5" strips either side of the centre-line for the curve, that way the cork is easier to bend.

Hey Nick, would it be OK if I made the strip 25.4mm instead of 1 inch, as it's a continental layout?!  :D

 :P    Well let's say 1" nominal, it's usually the width of whatever steel rule I lay my hands on first!   
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 28, 2018, 04:49:55 PM
Lol Nick!

I've done a quick tryout and 1" wide cork looks perfect for the track geometry, giving a nice shoulder and space between main lines.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 28, 2018, 04:56:32 PM
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=43337.msg536244#msg536244 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=43337.msg536244#msg536244)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 28, 2018, 05:01:24 PM
[url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=43337.msg536244#msg536244[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=43337.msg536244#msg536244[/url])


Ha ha I see this is a recurring question. Generally speaking I've got more experience popping corks than other forms of cork-based activity! :bounce:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on October 28, 2018, 08:27:27 PM
On reflection, I'll probably just design the whole hill to lift off like a lid. About a third of the junction between hill and flat will be a retaining wall anyway, so it won't be that noticeable (I think).


That's a good idea, Matt.

It's helpful to have easy access to all the track on a layout for cleaning and to attend to any derailments.


John
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 30, 2018, 12:15:37 PM

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/7020-301018121141.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70776)

Cork is going in following useful advice from Nick. Wow, it does make running sound lovely, smooth and quiet!

I've done a search on this forum for gluing cork down but not much come up. I've heard PVA tends to make the cork hard, so I was thinking of using evo stick flooring glue? Other option is evostick wood glue. It's onto a plywood base - any tips/experiences appreciated.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 30, 2018, 01:09:36 PM
PVA works fine for me. I seem to use PVA in various concentrations for just about everything on the layout from the framework through tracklaying to scenery.  The big tubes are also heavy enough to be useful weights whilst the glue dries!

Wickes own brand is my favourite, maybe my imagination but it's always seemed just a little stickier/tackier then some other brands.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on October 30, 2018, 01:20:23 PM
PVA works fine for me. I seem to use PVA in various concentrations for just about everything on the layout from the framework through tracklaying to scenery.  The big tubes are also heavy enough to be useful weights whilst the glue dries!

Wickes own brand is my favourite, maybe my imagination but it's always seemed just a little stickier/tackier then some other brands.

Great Nick, yes I'm just doing some tests so will opt either for PVA or wood glue. Dis I understand correctly that you also stick the track to the bed with PVA?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 30, 2018, 01:33:17 PM
Great Nick, yes I'm just doing some tests so will opt either for PVA or wood glue. Dis I understand correctly that you also stick the track to the bed with PVA?

Typical white wood glue is usually a PVA formulation anyway (though probably a bit stronger than cheapo trade PVA sold in large containers), folk tend to use the two terms interchangeably (as you can tell I'm guilty of that!)

Yes I glue the track to the cork with a thin smear of PVA.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 01, 2018, 12:07:31 PM
Cheers Nick, good point about the glue.

Another update:

I've been working on getting the final trackwork cut exactly, the area with the crossover was the most tricky because the points which form it are out-of-step so to speak. Quite a lot of head scratching and wrongly-cut rails was required!

Next I've been getting the cork layed down, using the wood glue. I've managed to get the basic angeled-oval well positioned with the corresponding underlay. Just one semi circle to go and after lots and lots of tweaking (with adding and taking glued down cork) - it is actually accurate. I've chamfered the edges of the cork with a scalpel and the result seems pretty good overall. I never imagined these stages would be so challenging - I've found it immensely precise work (if you want it to be accurate) and I don't think I've ever needed to do so much geometry and measuring ever before!




(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/7020-011118120228.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70952)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/7020-011118120244.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70953)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/7020-011118120304.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70954)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/7020-011118120442.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70955)

I've also been watching a video on YouTube about thow the real thing is done in prototype, it's fascinating! They seem to roughly lay the section of track by hand, then ballst over it and somehow draw the track up through the ballast, straighten it out and set it on a cantered-angle for the curves - astonishing! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYq-OiK4s60 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYq-OiK4s60)

Bye for now,
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: daffy on November 01, 2018, 01:48:05 PM
Good progress Matt.

And thanks for posting the video link. :thumbsup:  Great footage of a track laying and ballasting operation for the SBB. Nice to see the workings of a Plasser and Theurer machine. I watched one such operation briefly some years back while waiting for a train in the Bernese Oberland, so good to see more of the process.

With all that mechanisation it was good to see there is still room for the lowly man with a rake, and a guy wielding a small folding rule. Also good to see that, unlike the local aggregate shifters (and the farm muck shifters) near me, the lorries being filled with ballast don’t get overloaded so don’t end up decorating the roads! :)

Fixing all that ballast, i wonder how much PVA they get through. ;)

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on November 01, 2018, 09:06:44 PM
Great progress, Matt.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 02, 2018, 04:27:40 PM
Good progress Matt.

And thanks for posting the video link. :thumbsup:  Great footage of a track laying and ballasting operation for the SBB. Nice to see the workings of a Plasser and Theurer machine. I watched one such operation briefly some years back while waiting for a train in the Bernese Oberland, so good to see more of the process.

With all that mechanisation it was good to see there is still room for the lowly man with a rake, and a guy wielding a small folding rule. Also good to see that, unlike the local aggregate shifters (and the farm muck shifters) near me, the lorries being filled with ballast don’t get overloaded so don’t end up decorating the roads! :)

Fixing all that ballast, i wonder how much PVA they get through. ;)

Thanks Daffy - yes they sure must use lots of PVA lol! I like the characters of the guys captured on film actually - yes especially the guy with a rake, and the chap eating pistacho nuts in the cab of his Plasser.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 02, 2018, 04:28:13 PM
Great progress, Matt.

Thank you!  :)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 03, 2018, 08:24:06 AM
Speaking of ballast, I'm having trouble sourcing the ideal ballast.

For N gauge I like ballast very fine, with a sand-like grain size. Conistency-wise I like the N gauge ballast from Noch (which is the same as Gaugemaster). I like the rule that there should be 10 grains fitting in a row between each sleeper.

However, I want an even, light/mid-grey colour (not the salt and pepper grey mix like Noch produce). Anybody got any recommendations?

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 03, 2018, 09:09:22 AM
I've used Woodland Scenics fine light gray B1374  since the 80s.  It's not as fine as sand but gives the look I want.  I prefer to use a light colour which can be darkened down to taste.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/5885-031118090845.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71036)

Here's an example once weathered
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/5885-031118090600.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71035)


Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 03, 2018, 09:15:04 AM
I've used Woodland Scenics fine light gray B1374  since the 80s.  It's not as fine as sand but gives the look I want.  I prefer to use a light colour which can be darkened down to taste.


Thanks Nick, that looks a good option! Great pics, love your scenic work!

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 03, 2018, 09:21:01 AM
I notice you have grey concrete sleepers Nick. I'm going to have to paint all my sleepers grey - I have Roco/Fleischmann track with dark brown/black sleepers!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on November 03, 2018, 09:53:09 AM
Like Nick I have always used Woodland Scenics fine ballast. Personally I think that ballast is one of those areas where you have to compromise in N Gauge. Although sand is closer to scale you can't always see the texture from a normal viewing distance and it can look like the track has been set in concrete.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 03, 2018, 10:09:04 AM
I notice you have grey concrete sleepers Nick.

Nope, it's all Peco wooden sleeper track. Just the weathering and lighting makes them look that colour sometimes.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 03, 2018, 10:10:13 AM
Although sand is closer to scale you can't always see the texture from a normal viewing distance and it can look like the track has been set in concrete.
Yes absolutely agree, sand can look too fine.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on November 03, 2018, 04:08:58 PM
Speaking of ballast, I'm having trouble sourcing the ideal ballast.
……………. I like the rule that there should be 10 grains fitting in a row between each sleeper.



Much as I like Woodland Scenics Fine ballast I'm afraid it doesn't meet your strict specification.::)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/193-031118155951.jpeg)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 03, 2018, 04:14:11 PM

Much as I like Woodland Scenics Fine ballast I'm afraid it doesn't meet your strict specification.::)


Ha ha yes it seems not! On reflection, I think 7 grains/stones is within acceptable parameters. However, if visitors to my layout ever point out the inaccuracy, I'm blaming you guys though! :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: TrevL on November 03, 2018, 05:29:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYq-OiK4s60 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYq-OiK4s60)



I never knew Peco made flexi-track that big :no:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 04, 2018, 02:04:03 PM
Hi all,

I'm thinking of doing my platform widths as 42mm. Any view on this (for modern image)? Also any favoured heights?

Ta
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 04, 2018, 02:58:32 PM
That's a very precise measurement, is it derived from what will fit the location?  Is this an island platform or does it have only one face?

42mm seems quite wide for a single faced platform, but of course in real life it varies. There's probably a minimum requirement stated somewhere.

I've tended to make my platforms low, I've used a  specific "C" shape plastic extrusion for platform edges of the current layouts, it's about 7mm high from ground level.  You could certainly go higher for modern image platforms.  Code 80 trackwork will be higher than the code 55 I use.

This island platform on my abandonned station is about 45mm wide, and quite low as you can see.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/5885-041118145302.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71077)


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/5885-041118145345.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71078)


Make sure you allow adequate clearance for locos and stock to pass by.  If you eventually get any steam locos they often need a bit more clearance - one of the worst culprits is the old Minitrix 2-10-0 which is very wide at the cylinders! As you can see, I've allowed general clearance on the platforms above.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 04, 2018, 03:09:56 PM
That's a very precise measurement, is it derived from what will fit the location?  Is this an island platform or does it have only one face?

42mm seems quite wide for a single faced platform, but of course in real life it varies. There's probably a minimum requirement stated somewhere.



Hi Nick

Loving your abandoned station! I want to also have an abandoned length of track on my layout  :)

Here's my station mock up. I'm realising getting platform heights etc is quite tricky, esp. after the underlay is glued down! (which I have done now except on sidings).

I got the measurement (lets call it 4 cm wide ha ha) by guesstimating from the Google satellite view of Horrem station (which may be the station - not sure yet). Also the Faller ICE platforms are I believe 42mm.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-041118150716.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71083)

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 04, 2018, 03:18:42 PM
Here's the whole thing...


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-041118151834.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71090)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 04, 2018, 03:22:46 PM
Those platforms look ok for width now we can see in context.

Don't forget you can always use the same cork sheet under the platforms and related building to keep the heights matching with the track, especially if you use platforms from kits.

Impressive station building if that's the size it's going to be!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 04, 2018, 03:34:14 PM
Those platforms look ok for width now we can see in context.

Don't forget you can always use the same cork sheet under the platforms and related building to keep the heights matching with the track, especially if you use platforms from kits.

Impressive station building if that's the size it's going to be!

Cheers Nick, yes will use the underlay I have left over for that. Yep she's a big 'ol station!

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on November 04, 2018, 03:36:12 PM
It's looking fantastic, Matt.

I thank that you'll have a lot of fun with this layout.


John
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 04, 2018, 03:40:46 PM
It's looking fantastic, Matt.

I thank that you'll have a lot of fun with this layout.


John


Thanks John, it would never have reached this configuration without suggestions from you guys  :bounce:! How's your shed layout doing, I was just revisiting your last photo of it?

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 07, 2018, 08:20:11 AM
Bit of an unexpected problem here. I've made good progrees with my lift-off hill.

However when I look at it, I can't help thinking it looks like a sort of big frog's head, with the tunnels being frog's eyes, and the hill edge a large frog-mouth! Do I just have an over-active imagination? It is actually bugging me quite a bit.

I can't actually think of any solutions, apart from removing the hill altogether (which is a shame as I like it breaking up the loop of rail), or maybe extending the hill around the wouth western corner more and removing quite a bit of of the southern siding (also a pity).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-071118081832.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71221)


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-071118081910.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71222)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on November 07, 2018, 08:29:02 AM
Hi
I think your problem is that the tunnel doesn’t look as if it fits in the scenery but rather looks “plonked in place”.
The way around it is ro extend tie sides between the road and track so that it tapers down to a point at ground level just by the point.
Maybe do the same with the edge at the top tapering it down between road and platform.
I’d also do the same bottom left to taper the land down between main line and siding.
I think that will make a huge difference so it doesn’t look so angular.
I think you are absolutely correct in that it does provide a scenic break very nivcely.
Hope that’s not too critical and hope it helps.
Martin
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: weave on November 07, 2018, 08:33:26 AM
Hi Globi,

Haven't replied before but have given thank yous so just to say all looking good.

The hill looks fine to me and with more landscaping and maybe more trees I'm sure any frogness in your mind will disappear.

Sometimes bits of scenery look odd or out of place when on their own but once incorporated with everything else they look fine.

Cheers weave  :beers:

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 07, 2018, 08:35:29 AM
Hi
I think your problem is that the tunnel doesn’t look as if it fits in the scenery but rather looks “plonked in place”.

I never thought of that - yes I could definitely experiment with adding longer tapers to make it blend better as you suggest. The southern siding could almost be in a mini cutting if I also blend the left edge of the hill more gradually.

Cheers for the tip - definitely not-over critical, just what I needed!  :beers:

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 07, 2018, 08:37:36 AM
Hi Globi,

Haven't replied before but have given thank yous so just to say all looking good.

The hill looks fine to me and with more landscaping and maybe more trees I'm sure any frogness in your mind will disappear.

Sometimes bits of scenery look odd or out of place when on their own but once incorporated with everything else they look fine.

Cheers weave  :beers:

Thanks Weave, yes I was thinking that may be the case!

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Bealman on November 07, 2018, 08:38:17 AM
I'm biting my lip trying not to post the picture of my gronk doing cartwheels on my platform! :worried:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Bealman on November 07, 2018, 08:55:34 AM
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=9297 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=9297)

Oh ok.....  :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 07, 2018, 08:55:52 AM
Unfortunately this can be a problem with flat-top board layouts, you have no opportunity to undulate the scenery and take it below track level and so everything looks "plonked on top" as Martin says.

I think the straight edge along the front is the most obvious unnatural feature at first glance, so try making that less uniform.  Add a few more lumps and bumps generally, so it's not so symmetrical?  Might turn it into a toad rather than a frog?  :D

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 07, 2018, 08:59:47 AM
Unfortunately this can be a problem with flat-top board layouts, you have no opportunity to undulate the scenery and take it below track level and so everything looks "plonked on top" as Martin says.

I think the straight edge along the front is the most obvious unnatural feature at first glance, so try making that less uniform.  Add a few more lumps and bumps generally, so it's not so symmetrical?  Might turn it into a toad rather than a frog?  :D

Ha ha I think I prefer frogs to toads actually! Yes I see your point, table-top layouts have their limitations in this regard.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 07, 2018, 09:00:32 AM
[url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=9297[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=9297[/url])

Oh ok.....  :beers:


LOL is that protypical for Gronks?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Bealman on November 07, 2018, 09:18:02 AM
On my layout, unfortunately yes!

Outside frames don't like the clearance on the curved platforms.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on November 07, 2018, 09:41:21 AM
It will look completely different once more elements of scenery are incorporated into the layout, but I do agree with the suggestions to do more 'tapering'.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on November 07, 2018, 09:46:56 AM
On my layout, unfortunately yes!

Outside frames don't like the clearance on the curved platforms.  :thumbsup:

Don't worry Matt. That is unlikely to happen on your layout if you take notice of what Nick said. :thumbsup:

"Make sure you allow adequate clearance for locos and stock to pass by.  If you eventually get any steam locos they often need a bit more clearance - one of the worst culprits is the old Minitrix 2-10-0 which is very wide at the cylinders! As you can see, I've allowed general clearance on the platforms above"
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Bealman on November 07, 2018, 10:17:27 AM
True. I have a couple of Minitrix 9Fs, which are also useful as a clearance gauge.

Interestingly, they clear the platform in the photo, which suggests the Farish gronk must be wider!  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on November 07, 2018, 10:22:39 AM
I
Bit of an unexpected problem here. I've made good progrees with my lift-off hill.

However when I look at it, I can't help thinking it looks like a sort of big frog's head, with the tunnels being frog's eyes, and the hill edge a large frog-mouth! Do I just have an over-active imagination? It is actually bugging me quite a bit.

I can't actually think of any solutions, apart from removing the hill altogether (which is a shame as I like it breaking up the loop of rail), or maybe extending the hill around the wouth western corner more and removing quite a bit of of the southern siding (also a pity).

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-071118081832.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71221[/url])


([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-071118081910.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71222[/url])



I think you have made a great start Matt.
As the other members have suggested you need to make it look less symmetrical. I like the idea of extending the high ground between the siding/mainline/road but have concerns about the practicality of lifting it off the layout should the need arise. You would be adding some delicate protruding spurs which will be easily damaged. Instead of having gradually rising ground why not do the opposite and incorporate a steep rockface into that area. You could bring the high ground further forward and even create a flat area on top of the rockface where you could place a suitable building.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 07, 2018, 12:26:04 PM
On my layout, unfortunately yes!

Outside frames don't like the clearance on the curved platforms.  :thumbsup:

Oh dear, poor Gronks!   :'(
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 07, 2018, 12:40:45 PM
Ok, aggregating suggestions together to move in a non-symetrical direcion, I especially like the cliff face addition (plus this will be robust when lifting the hill off).

Here's a mock up. Actually it gives an opportunity to experiment with some rock effects, which is a plus.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-071118124031.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71228)

Although I just noticed it now looks like a bird!  :-[
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 07, 2018, 05:32:33 PM
Voila - one cliff!

It's de-froggified it considerably!


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-071118173226.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71236)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: daffy on November 07, 2018, 05:47:55 PM
Looking like a good solution is taking shape Matt. :thumbsup:

Topographically, just try to ensure that the edges of the tunnel hill are not all on the same contour line, i.e. the baseboard level, and look natural. Straight edges and planes are rare in nature.

Once you have draped it all in plaster cloth, painted it and added grasses,  bushes, trees, and a few other detail elements, it will be fine. The trick is to make the removable section flow into its immediate surroundings, so beyond its edges you might like to slope out the hill, hiding the joint as much as is reasonable with aforementioned bushes, trees, etc.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on November 07, 2018, 06:13:29 PM
Yes, looking good Matt.
As Daffy says, don’t make things too uniform.
It will all look so much better when finished.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 07, 2018, 09:00:47 PM
Looking like a good solution is taking shape Matt. :thumbsup:


Thanks Daffy, can't wait to get the plaster on and then the greenery etc!

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 07, 2018, 09:01:29 PM
Yes, looking good Matt.
As Daffy says, don’t make things too uniform.
It will all look so much better when finished.

Thank you, yes I have high hopes!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on November 07, 2018, 09:05:42 PM
Once you have put a couple of layers of plaster cloth on your hill I think it will be rigid enough to allow you to cut a bigger access hole at the back. Then it would not need to be removable which would make blending it into the rest of the landscape much easier.
Another thought...……..If you extended the sheer rockface across your tracks and redesigned the tunnel portal you could curve the siding and run it into an adjacent single track portal which could be blocked off out of use. This would represent a disused branchline that was now just being used as a siding. You said in an earlier post that you wanted a disused line. :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 08, 2018, 09:28:43 PM
Once you have put a couple of layers of plaster cloth on your hill I think it will be rigid enough to allow you to cut a bigger access hole at the back. Then it would not need to be removable which would make blending it into the rest of the landscape much easier.
Another thought...……..If you extended the sheer rockface across your tracks and redesigned the tunnel portal you could curve the siding and run it into an adjacent single track portal which could be blocked off out of use. This would represent a disused branchline that was now just being used as a siding. You said in an earlier post that you wanted a disused line. :D

Great ideas, thank you, I'll consider them!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 08, 2018, 09:32:46 PM
I've started applying the plaster cloth, it's the most fun part of the build so far!  :bounce:. Really glad I followed Swiss Train's suggestion of adding rocks and cliff as that's going to be interesting to model. Will get to work with Polyfilla for those bits.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-081118213051.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71296)



(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-081118213210.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71297)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: paulprice on November 08, 2018, 09:47:03 PM
looking good
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on November 08, 2018, 09:52:20 PM
looking good


Seconded!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on November 08, 2018, 09:57:15 PM
Thirded.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 09, 2018, 07:46:58 AM
I was going to say "cover the track first!" but then remembered your hill is removable.    Good start!   As I've recently mentioned elsewhere on the facebook page;

Make sure you use at least a couple of layers criss-crossed.

Smear the wet plaster so that you cover the all holes in the cloth lattice.

Have a bag of plaster of paris to hand, mix in some brown and black powder paint and use this mix sprinkled and smeared over the wet cloth to create a top layer which won't show pure white if chipped in the future.

Have fun, it's definitely Messy Time!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on November 09, 2018, 07:49:43 AM
I rather enjoy “messy time”.
It’s great to see a mess turn into something that looks good.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 09, 2018, 01:34:10 PM
I rather enjoy “messy time”.
It’s great to see a mess turn into something that looks good.

Totally agree!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 09, 2018, 01:37:22 PM
I was going to say "cover the track first!" but then remembered your hill is removable.    Good start!   As I've recently mentioned elsewhere on the facebook page;

Make sure you use at least a couple of layers criss-crossed.

Smear the wet plaster so that you cover the all holes in the cloth lattice.

Have a bag of plaster of paris to hand, mix in some brown and black powder paint and use this mix sprinkled and smeared over the wet cloth to create a top layer which won't show pure white if chipped in the future.

Have fun, it's definitely Messy Time!

Thank you! I've just bought some powder based paint and the plaster of Paris, I've experimented with mixing them and applying to an off-layout tester - seems to work fine and create a nice brown layer.

I did two layers of bandaging, they're not criss crossed but they are ovelapping sections. It's been drying 24 hours. Should I add another criss cross layer on?

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on November 09, 2018, 01:48:16 PM
@Globi (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7020)  Matt, most of my plaster bandaging has been done just as you have done and the only 'criss crossing' I have done is when I have been using small pieces to fit. Once everything is dried, I think you will find it is hard and strong enough.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 09, 2018, 01:56:46 PM
@Globi ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7020[/url])  Matt, most of my plaster bandaging has been done just as you have done and the only 'criss crossing' I have done is when I have been using small pieces to fit. Once everything is dried, I think you will find it is hard and strong enough.  :thumbsup:


Ah smashing thank you!

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Miek on November 09, 2018, 03:31:20 PM
Hi,

This is a great little layout. As others say, everything about the hill / tunnels will look even better when you add stuff around it like trees, rocks, buildings what-ever. It is just that it is the first item and thats what gets the focus if you see what I mean. And also the photos are from a scale helicopter looking down over the layout.

Please can you tell me how are you using on the plaster bandage - is it just water? Also, after this, are you going to be using plaster or polyfiller to go over it?

/*EDIT because I read your post properly :confused1:
What is the paint and plaster you describe*/


Thanks.
Mike
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 09, 2018, 08:06:07 PM
Hi,

This is a great little layout. As others say, everything about the hill / tunnels will look even better when you add stuff around it like trees, rocks, buildings what-ever. It is just that it is the first item and thats what gets the focus if you see what I mean. And also the photos are from a scale helicopter looking down over the layout.

Please can you tell me how are you using on the plaster bandage - is it just water? Also, after this, are you going to be using plaster or polyfiller to go over it?

/*EDIT because I read your post properly :confused1:
What is the paint and plaster you describe*/


Thanks.
Mike

Thanks Miek, glad you like it! It is my first layout, so I'm learning a huge amount from the guys on this forum. The plaster bandage is really great stuff. I made a rough sub-structure from scrap corrugated cardboard. Then I layered over that with brown paper, glued down with PVA to the sub-structure. With the plaster bandage you just cut sections off the roll, dip it in a shallow water tray and lay it over the brown paper. It seems to take a day or two to dry fully.

Next step I will follow the suggestion to mix powder paint brown/black into plaster of Paris and coat this over the top (initial tests seem good). Rockfaces will be treated seperately with grey coloured plaster. I'll keep posting the progress as it takes place....

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 09, 2018, 09:26:02 PM
With the plaster bandage you just cut sections off the roll, dip it in a shallow water tray and lay it over the brown paper. It seems to take a day or two to dry fully.
That might be the brown paper substrate retaining the moisture? Plaster bandage usually hardens and dries quite rapidly, remember it used to be used for setting broken arms etc.!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on November 09, 2018, 09:33:39 PM
And using warm water can help.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 10, 2018, 09:32:08 AM
More messy fun this morning! I've mixed up plaster of paris with the poster paint and smeared it onto the hill, covering up all the little gaps in the mesh of the plaster bandage.

I mixed up too much at first, it starts to set surprisingly quickly in the mixing pot!

In other news, I have made my ICE style tunnel portals with a £5 length of 10cm diameter air duct tubing from B&Q and a hack saw. These have been painted very light grey with Tamiya acrylics. I'm extremely chuffed with these!


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-101118091916.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71335)


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-101118091954.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71336)


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-101118093120.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71338)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on November 10, 2018, 09:39:53 AM
............….In other news, I have made my ICE style tunnel portals with a £5 length of 10cm diameter air duct tubing from B&Q and a hack saw. These have been painted very light grey with Tamiya acrylics. I'm extremely chuffed with these!

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-101118093120.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71338[/url])




Much cheaper than the Busch ones. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 10, 2018, 09:49:50 AM

Much cheaper than the Busch ones. :thumbsup:

I know. I'm figuring I can't self-make locos, rolling stock or track (well, not without extreme difficulty), so I'm going to make as much of the other stuff as possible. My signal box was an inexpensive Kibri kit and I'll use that to scale my scratch built station building.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on November 10, 2018, 10:24:55 AM

Much cheaper than the Busch ones. :thumbsup:

I know. I'm figuring I can't self-make locos, rolling stock or track (well, not without extreme difficulty), so I'm going to make as much of the other stuff as possible. My signal box was an inexpensive Kibri kit and I'll use that to scale my scratch built station building.
And I'm sure you will make a great job of it. I find that building the layout is just as much fun as running the trains.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 12, 2018, 10:38:12 AM

And I'm sure you will make a great job of it. I find that building the layout is just as much fun as running the trains.


Thank you, yes the building is rewarding!

Here's my nearly finished signal box. I've painted it in my favoured colours with various mixes of Tamiya acrylics. I'll leave weathering it till it's in position in the landscaped layout. it was quite hard to get the correct brick tone - I mixed desert yellow, red and white in the end.  I've replaced the kit glasing with thin, clear plastic cut from Fleishmann track packaging, as I found it easier to get a precise fit that way.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-121118103335.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71431)

Regarding the station, I will be going for a scratch build. I've changed the prototype now to a smaller building. After a long trawl through Google satellite view, I've located a small, modern station outside Zurich. I've sent a relative who lives near there to go and take photos for me! Looking forward to the joys of scratch building for the first time!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-121118103431.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71432)

The plaster on the hill is now fully dry, I'm making a few tweaks and then I'll give an even coat of brown acrylic. Then I guess it's ready for the addition of some rock effects and final scenics.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-121118103517.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71433)

And finally, I'm getting through painting all the sleepers grey - this is taking quite a long time! :sleep: Once that's done I can think about gluing the track down.

So things are creeping along.... :thumbsup:


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-121118103710.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71434)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on November 12, 2018, 11:08:07 AM

Here's my nearly finished signal box. I've painted it in my favoured colours with various mixes of Tamiya acrylics. ………….

You appear to have made a good job of the signal box. I've built a couple of these kits over the years and they didn't fit together particularly well. Probably something to do with it being a very old moulding.


Regarding the station, I will be going for a scratch build...…….. I've located a small, modern station outside Zurich. I've sent a relative who lives near there to go and take photos for me!



Now I know why you are using a Swiss station to model and not a German one.  :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 12, 2018, 07:45:52 PM

Here's my nearly finished signal box. I've painted it in my favoured colours with various mixes of Tamiya acrylics. ………….

You appear to have made a good job of the signal box. I've built a couple of these kits over the years and they didn't fit together particularly well. Probably something to do with it being a very old moulding.


Regarding the station, I will be going for a scratch build...…….. I've located a small, modern station outside Zurich. I've sent a relative who lives near there to go and take photos for me!



Now I know why you are using a Swiss station to model and not a German one.  :D

Thank you, yes the fit is a bit dodgy here and there but the overall effect seems good! Yes it's kind of him to go and take those research photos, would be a bit stuck with only street view as reference!

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: paulprice on November 12, 2018, 07:54:45 PM
its looking good
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 14, 2018, 08:47:27 PM
I've just started gluing the track down to the cork bed with PVA. I must say I'm quite surprised how much noisier the trains are running over the glued down sections! Is it any quieter if you use track pins/screws instead? :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on November 14, 2018, 09:00:00 PM
I've just started gluing the track down to the cork bed with PVA. I must say I'm quite surprised how much noisier the trains are running over the glued down sections! Is it any quieter if you use track pins/screws instead? :hmmm:

Pins and/or screws driven into the ply will increase the noise even more and if you think it is noisy now wait until you do the ballasting. :worried:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 14, 2018, 09:03:35 PM
I've just started gluing the track down to the cork bed with PVA. I must say I'm quite surprised how much noisier the trains are running over the glued down sections! Is it any quieter if you use track pins/screws instead? :hmmm:

Glued track will transmit more sound than loose track as you've created a firm contact between track and cork, and between cork and baseboard, but the cork itself at least provides some insulation compared to gluing track directly to the baseboard.

Personally I think pins/screws transfer more sound to the underlying board, plus they look worse IMO.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 14, 2018, 09:04:59 PM
I've just started gluing the track down to the cork bed with PVA. I must say I'm quite surprised how much noisier the trains are running over the glued down sections! Is it any quieter if you use track pins/screws instead? :hmmm:

Pins and/or screws driven into the ply will increase the noise even more and if you think it is noisy now wait until you do the ballasting. :worried:

Yikes! Ok good to know that it's normal though  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on November 14, 2018, 09:22:41 PM
I've just started gluing the track down to the cork bed with PVA. I must say I'm quite surprised how much noisier the trains are running over the glued down sections! Is it any quieter if you use track pins/screws instead? :hmmm:

Pins and/or screws driven into the ply will increase the noise even more and if you think it is noisy now wait until you do the ballasting. :worried:

Yikes! Ok good to know that it's normal though  :thumbsup:
I agree completely with Nick.  I have done a fair bit of testing as I like quiet trains.  The best results for sound-deadening that I found is a soft-ish foam and track stuck to it with 'Copydex'.  (The Table-Top Railway (Mk II) used this approach.)  A single track pin through the foam and into the solid baseboard will increase the noise much more than one might think.

Best wishes.

John

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 15, 2018, 07:47:08 AM
Funnily enough, last time I read up on this topic, was when I was trying to stop bass from my speakers travelling down to the flat below. The things I learned were: A - don't have speakers in the corner of the room and B - Coupling. Apparently when a speaker is accoustically connected to whatever it is sitting on, this then also acts as a speaker - e.g. the floor or furniture it may be sitting on. To uncouple it from said furniture, the speaker needs to sit on a soft wallowy mass (I used neoprene pads in the end) thereby uncoupling it. The worst thing to sit speakers or stands on (in terms of preventing sound waves travelling to neighbours) was needle points as these couple the speaker very effectively to the surface below.

And this all ties in with what you are saying!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 15, 2018, 08:39:29 AM
...The worst thing to sit speakers or stands on (in terms of preventing sound waves travelling to neighbours) was needle points as these couple the speaker very effectively to the surface below.

Yeah, it used to be the fashion to fit needle points to speaker stand feet and between the speaker and the stand, I still have all the points that came with mine but I used "black-tac" instead.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 16, 2018, 03:34:35 PM
I've taken an unorthodox step and decided to make my hill out of sponge cake, coated with dark chocolate. The idea is, I will be able to nibble at it whilst playing with the trains. I'll replace the trees with sugar trees of course to match.  :laugh:


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-161118153418.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71559)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 16, 2018, 03:45:18 PM
turn it into a Swiss Roll   :D  :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on November 16, 2018, 04:05:01 PM
And take a Swiss Army Knife to it to slice it up  :D

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 16, 2018, 04:07:24 PM
turn it into a Swiss Roll   :D  :D

Yum - good idea - ha ha! :laugh:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 19, 2018, 01:50:24 PM
Utter chaos on the layout again today. I've had to tweak the tunnel portal areas a lot, much adjustment/ re-doing needed to get them looking right - can't tell you the amount of time I've been sticking down and unsticking again!

Further track has been getting painted and then glued down also. My soldering iron also arrived, so at some point I can do nice soldered connections to a bus wire. I'll also use it to scratch build catenary - most likely using HO rail to represent 'I' beam style masts/gantries.

Woodland scenics scatter material is also in the post, so working on greenery on the hill looks imminent.

Sometimes when the track is clear and joined up I actually get to play with the trains a bit. I've got a container wagon in the post to start building up my cargo train - I love the graphics on cargo stuff, I was never previously that interested in freight but am now!


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-191118134702.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71626)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-191118134843.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71627)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-191118134926.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71628)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on November 19, 2018, 01:53:09 PM
It's looking splendid, Matt.

John
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 19, 2018, 06:24:12 PM
It's looking splendid, Matt.

John

Cheers John!  :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Miek on November 20, 2018, 06:57:27 AM
Yes it's coming along nicely. What did you paint the sleepers with. Is it from those little Tamiya acrylic paint pots or something else?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 20, 2018, 06:02:14 PM
I'd love to interior light my Arnold coaches. Any ideas on how to go about this?

Cheers
Matt
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-201118180205.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71665)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 20, 2018, 06:14:53 PM
In the old days you would probably have used the Arnold coach lighting kit

https://www.ebay.de/p/Arnold-N-7362-Wagenbeleuchtung-Innenbeleuchtung-f%C3%BCr-4-achs-Personenwagen/1811010407 (https://www.ebay.de/p/Arnold-N-7362-Wagenbeleuchtung-Innenbeleuchtung-f%C3%BCr-4-achs-Personenwagen/1811010407)

I haven't checked whether Hornby/Arnold still offer such a kit. Plus of course you're DCC aren't you? Those kits should still work but probably be very bright, and would benefit from changing to LEDs with a bridge rectifier and voltage drop resistor.

Must admit I've never been a fan of lighting in coaches, too much flicker and also added drag from the wheel or axle pickups. I usually disable any lighting I find in 2nd hand coaches.  An alternative might be to find a 3rd party lighting kit maybe battery powered?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on November 20, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
Here is one battery operated type, (I am certain I have seen others) -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Model-Railway-Coach-Lighting-for-N-Gauge-Easy-fit-with-No-wiring-No-switches/292702122173?hash=item442667f0bd:m:mq0rj33JNOAJhWIDX592BJg:rk:24:pf:0 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Model-Railway-Coach-Lighting-for-N-Gauge-Easy-fit-with-No-wiring-No-switches/292702122173?hash=item442667f0bd:m:mq0rj33JNOAJhWIDX592BJg:rk:24:pf:0)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 20, 2018, 06:26:23 PM


Must admit I've never been a fan of lighting in coaches, too much flicker and also added drag from the wheel or axle pickups.

Oh that would be annoying! I might stick with just having layout lighting then.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 20, 2018, 06:29:29 PM
Here is one battery operated type, (I am certain I have seen others) -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Model-Railway-Coach-Lighting-for-N-Gauge-Easy-fit-with-No-wiring-No-switches/292702122173?hash=item442667f0bd:m:mq0rj33JNOAJhWIDX592BJg:rk:24:pf:0 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Model-Railway-Coach-Lighting-for-N-Gauge-Easy-fit-with-No-wiring-No-switches/292702122173?hash=item442667f0bd:m:mq0rj33JNOAJhWIDX592BJg:rk:24:pf:0)

That's interesting. It is an awful lot of money though!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on November 20, 2018, 07:03:49 PM
The advantage of battery operated lighting is that there is no flickering. I have seen something, somewhere, where the lights were operated by a tiny switch, so they did not need to be lit if not required. I will post the details if I find them.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 20, 2018, 07:05:55 PM
The advantage of battery operated lighting is that there is no flickering. I have seen something, somewhere, where the lights were operated by a tiny switch, so they did not need to be lit if not required. I will post the details if I find them.

Cool, thank you! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on November 20, 2018, 07:06:39 PM
Just found this, (no switches required!) -

https://www.dcpexpress.com/gauge-warm-white-coach-lighting-traditional-style-p-599.html (https://www.dcpexpress.com/gauge-warm-white-coach-lighting-traditional-style-p-599.html)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 21, 2018, 09:09:34 PM
I keep making costly mistakes. I've painted most of my points and they're fine, because I didn't paint the sleepers directly on the slidy bits.

But this morning I got overly-bold and painted sleepers under the slidy bits on 2 sets of points, then glued the points down, along with other track.

I've just brought up the whole load of track again which took all this morning and last night to align, because although the points still "work", they don't spring back neatly when passed over again from the opposite direction. So basically they are fooked!

That's more cash down the drain (AKA Gaugemaster), I'll never get any new rolling stock at this rate!!!!! :(

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-211118211015.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71697)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 21, 2018, 09:19:26 PM
Should be able to clean the point up.  Take off the motor first, and see how freely the blades are moving, it might just be something simple that needs a bit of paint scraping off.

You didn't need to paint the sleepers grey though, that was just an optical illusion in one of my photos you saw?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on November 21, 2018, 09:33:06 PM
Should be able to clean the point up.  Take off the motor first, and see how freely the blades are moving, it might just be something simple that needs a bit of paint scraping off.

You didn't need to paint the sleepers grey though, that was just an optical illusion in one of my photos you saw?

Agreed.  A gentle scrape off of the paint and a bit of 'wiggling' the point blades and you'll likely be fine.  A blunt scraper is best, to avoid cutting into the plastic of the slide chairs and risking bits of plastic sticking up and causing difficulties.  Rubbing each of the slide chairs with a soft pencil will give a bit of lubrication if required.   
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 21, 2018, 09:34:08 PM
Should be able to clean the point up.  Take off the motor first, and see how freely the blades are moving, it might just be something simple that needs a bit of paint scraping off.

You didn't need to paint the sleepers grey though, that was just an optical illusion in one of my photos you saw?

I'll do that and keep trying to clean them. Well, I painted them to get that concrete look (I should have used Peco track, just never occured to me at the beginning).
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 21, 2018, 09:37:26 PM
Should be able to clean the point up.  Take off the motor first, and see how freely the blades are moving, it might just be something simple that needs a bit of paint scraping off.

You didn't need to paint the sleepers grey though, that was just an optical illusion in one of my photos you saw?

Agreed.  A gentle scrape off of the paint and a bit of 'wiggling' the point blades and you'll likely be fine.  A blunt scraper is best, to avoid cutting into the plastic of the slide chairs and risking bits of plastic sticking up and causing difficulties.  Rubbing each of the slide chairs with a soft pencil will give a bit of lubrication if required.   

Crikey the graphite trick worked immediately!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 22, 2018, 04:49:56 PM
Ok so I've removed the motors, polished and scraped burnished and graphite-ed. The actions have improved somewhat but they're tripping the trains now. It's £45 up the spout I'll have to replace them.

I've swapped in un-painted points to test the locations and they are fine.

That'll teach me!!!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 23, 2018, 08:11:09 AM
Since I was ordering new points, I decided to get an electric one for the siding which is on the far side of the layout (I've noticed I never bother operating that point because I have to reach across the layout - which is a shame. All other points are within arm's reach of my sitting position). I don't have the fogiest idea how to wire it up. I'm assuming I need some sort of switch and to feed it with power from the multimaus power box or my spare Gaugemaster DC controller? :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 23, 2018, 04:24:01 PM
Tunnel update:

I've been rather bothered by my slightly mis-aligned tunnel portals. They sit on curves in the railway so it has been awkward lining them up.

It's dawned on me that ideally you have to make and align the whole portal/retaining walls structure first, then insert the whole lot into a suitably cut opening in the hill. I simply never considered that first time round.

Only one thing for it, tear them out and start again!  :D (that's about the third time I've done them)!


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-231118162135.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71757)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-231118162158.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71758)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 23, 2018, 06:38:59 PM
I don't have the fogiest idea how to wire [a point motor] up. I'm assuming I need some sort of switch and to feed it with power from the multimaus power box or my spare Gaugemaster DC controller? :hmmm:


Fleischmann point I presume?  Depends whether you want to control it via DCC or keep point control separate? 

Link to Fleischmann point wiring instructions here  http://www.fleischmann.de/doc/an/2/de/BA_942101_201465.pdf (http://www.fleischmann.de/doc/an/2/de/BA_942101_201465.pdf)

It's a 3-wire system, so for analogue requires a single pole two-way momentary switch for each point motor, often sold as SPDT (ON)-OFF-(ON)    (the parentheses are important, it indicates the two ON positions are momentary).  Should work on either AC or DC - usually an AC supply is used.

For DCC you need an accessory decoder designed for the type of point motor (3-wire solenoid in this case)
Can the Multimaus control point decoders?

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Phoenix on November 23, 2018, 06:57:56 PM
Hi there,

I just noticed you were asking about coach lighting.

The kits David linked to look great, but I did not want my coach to light up every time I moved them, so I found a kit with a little switch that I mounted underneath the coach.

The kit included everything, even the wire, and was only £4.25.

Here is how I installed it in an autocoach .......

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41655.msg512761#msg512761 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41655.msg512761#msg512761)

I hope this helps  :D

All best wishes
Kevin

 :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 23, 2018, 07:02:36 PM
I don't have the fogiest idea how to wire [a point motor] up. I'm assuming I need some sort of switch and to feed it with power from the multimaus power box or my spare Gaugemaster DC controller? :hmmm:


Fleischmann point I presume?  Depends whether you want to control it via DCC or keep point control separate? 

Link to Fleischmann point wiring instructions here  [url]http://www.fleischmann.de/doc/an/2/de/BA_942101_201465.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.fleischmann.de/doc/an/2/de/BA_942101_201465.pdf[/url])

It's a 3-wire system, so for analogue requires a single pole two-way momentary switch for each point motor, often sold as SPDT (ON)-OFF-(ON)    (the parentheses are important, it indicates the two ON positions are momentary).  Should work on either AC or DC - usually an AC supply is used.

For DCC you need an accessory decoder designed for the type of point motor (3-wire solenoid in this case)
Can the Multimaus control point decoders?


Thanks Nick, yes it's Fleishmann (ex-Roco) track. The Multimaus does indeed do points, but as it's just the one set of points, I'll just stick with analogue methinks (unless decoders for points are really cheap). Ta for switch info and link.

At the rate everything else is going (aka making look Panama canal look speedy) , it will probably be weeks before I'm actually wiring it up!  :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 23, 2018, 07:16:24 PM
... as it's just the one set of points, I'll just stick with analogue methinks (unless decoders for points are really cheap). Ta for switch info and link.
Well you can buy accessory decoders with just a single channel, or if you did plan to motorise more points then it's worth considering a multi-channel decoder.

Personally I much prefer good old analogue switches on a real control panel over pressing a sequence of buttons on a DCC controller.  I've played around with PC control too but didn't find it particularly satisfying.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on November 23, 2018, 07:25:13 PM
I found a kit with a little switch that I mounted underneath the coach.

The kit included everything, even the wire, and was only £4.25.

Here is how I installed it in an autocoach .......

[url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41655.msg512761#msg512761[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41655.msg512761#msg512761[/url])



Thanks for that @Phoenix (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5755)  and thank you for the link to your 'how I did it' post. I have now ordered a couple of the lighting kits and bookmarked your post.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 23, 2018, 07:42:39 PM
... as it's just the one set of points, I'll just stick with analogue methinks (unless decoders for points are really cheap). Ta for switch info and link.
Well you can buy accessory decoders with just a single channel, or if you did plan to motorise more points then it's worth considering a multi-channel decoder.

Personally I much prefer good old analogue switches on a real control panel over pressing a sequence of buttons on a DCC controller.  I've played around with PC control too but didn't find it particularly satisfying.

I'm definitely with you on this. I'll not be having more than one set of electric points and I like the idea of having a physical switch to operate said points!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 23, 2018, 07:45:24 PM
Hi there,

I just noticed you were asking about coach lighting.

The kits David linked to look great, but I did not want my coach to light up every time I moved them, so I found a kit with a little switch that I mounted underneath the coach.

The kit included everything, even the wire, and was only £4.25.

Here is how I installed it in an autocoach .......

[url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41655.msg512761#msg512761[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41655.msg512761#msg512761[/url])

I hope this helps  :D

All best wishes
Kevin

 :beers:


Thanks for this, that's definitely an economical and effective option to consider!!!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 23, 2018, 07:47:55 PM
Ahahah! Evergreen styrene I-Beams. Scratch-built catenary ahoy!  :claphappy:

https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/14-35cm-white-polystrene-i-beam (https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/14-35cm-white-polystrene-i-beam)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on November 23, 2018, 08:31:09 PM
https://plastruct.com/

also sell I-Beams and plenty of other plastic bits for scratch building, although I do not know how the prices compare.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 24, 2018, 08:31:38 AM
More layout-building chaos this morning. The concept that one day I may able to be actually run trains seems like a far-off fantasy!


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-241118083049.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71766)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-241118083123.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71767)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 24, 2018, 10:53:41 AM
My Swiss relative is back from his mission photographing the station I found on Google maps  :claphappy:. He thinks I'm bonkers!

It's situated on the main line between and Zurich and Basel, from whence trains can cross to the German high speed lines. The station has been allowed to go to wrack and ruin by the looks of it (especially the flats above look dischevelled and un-loved) but I think it's going to provide some really interesting model making! I love the rectangular architectural shapes. There's opportunities for some lively cameos around the Kiosk (I may need to buy a model police car ha ha).

There's also a little cargo bay with 3 x roll shutters, which is interesting.

Heres a few of his photos:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-241118104659.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71771)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-241118104718.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71772)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-241118104815.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71773)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-241118104834.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71774)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-241118104854.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71775)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 26, 2018, 01:11:17 PM
Heck, by the looks of it my Kibri control tower looks like it's not to very accurate scale. My Noch 1:160 figures (probably much newer mouldings) which look very accurate to my coaching stock and my very new Rietze bus - seem smaller in proportion to the Kibri doorways.

Dang it! This makes my station scratch build all the more tricky. I'm inclined to stick to the scale of the Noch figures.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on November 26, 2018, 04:27:56 PM
Many thanks for these interesting photographs, Matt.

I was disappointed to see graffiti in Switzerland.  At least you can omit it from your model.

This is a great project.


John
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 27, 2018, 07:58:47 AM
Many thanks for these interesting photographs, Matt.

I was disappointed to see graffiti in Switzerland.  At least you can omit it from your model.

This is a great project.


John

Thanks John, yes the project is tootling along ok. I'm really glad I'm learning the basics with this small layout. I have immense respect for those suceeding with large layouts as I now understand the multitude of things which have to be considered and the skills which need mastering!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 27, 2018, 12:04:21 PM
So here's some more info on the scale issue I'm having.

I've based the scratch built station (it's a card mock up) on my Noch 1:160 figure and comparing the height of buses/ford Mondeos shown in the photos. I'm happy, except for when I put the old Kibri kit next to the station (just for comparison, it won't be placed there normally).

As shown in the photos, I believe the doorways on the Kibri kit are larger than true scale to the figure; this makes the building seem larger overall than my station (mind you signal boxes are unusually tall).

Interested in getting your views! Here's the Streetview link https://goo.gl/maps/D3Wm6DMD7zA2 (https://goo.gl/maps/D3Wm6DMD7zA2)




(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-271118120157.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71939)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-271118120215.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71940)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-271118120242.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71941)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-271118120300.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71942)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-271118120318.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71943)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-271118120339.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71944)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-271118121023.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71945)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/7020-271118121732.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71946)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on November 28, 2018, 10:50:01 AM
Hi Matt.
I have been doing a bit of research and I don't think the Kibri signalbox is particularly oversized. If you go to this page http://mausmaki.net/mausmaki/bahn-impressionen/abschiedsfahrt-der-baureihe-110-in-stuttgart.html (http://mausmaki.net/mausmaki/bahn-impressionen/abschiedsfahrt-der-baureihe-110-in-stuttgart.html) and scroll down you will see a photo of part of the original Backnang signalbox that Kibri have used for their model. Conveniently there are some old chairs underneath the ground floor windows that you can use for size comparison. I have a similar chair and it is 1130mm high. This equates to 7.06 mm in 1:160 scale. I would say that the distance from the ground to the bottom of the lower windows on the Kibri model was about 7.3mm so I don't think their scaling is too bad. This doesn't explain the height of the doors but it is highly likely that they are much higher than standard domestic ones. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on November 28, 2018, 11:35:38 AM
Hi Matt.
I have been doing a bit of research and I don't think the Kibri signalbox is particularly oversized. If you go to this page [url]http://mausmaki.net/mausmaki/bahn-impressionen/abschiedsfahrt-der-baureihe-110-in-stuttgart.html[/url] ([url]http://mausmaki.net/mausmaki/bahn-impressionen/abschiedsfahrt-der-baureihe-110-in-stuttgart.html[/url]) and scroll down you will see a photo of part of the original Backnang signalbox that Kibri have used for their model. Conveniently there are some old chairs underneath the ground floor windows that you can use for size comparison. I have a similar chair and it is 1130mm high. This equates to 7.06 mm in 1:160 scale. I would say that the distance from the ground to the bottom of the lower windows on the Kibri model was about 7.3mm so I don't think their scaling is too bad. This doesn't explain the height of the doors but it is highly likely that they are much higher than standard domestic ones. Hope this helps.


Hi, thank you that is really helpful! Yes I agree that the doors could well be higher than standard doors. I've re-adjusted my measurements and I'm making a slightly larger scale mock up of my station, it's looking like a better fit.

Much appreciated your time spent checking!
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 05, 2018, 11:35:53 AM
Is the actual metal in flex rail different from non-flex, or is it just the tension of the plastic sleepers which is different? :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on December 05, 2018, 12:43:25 PM
Same stuff. It's mostly the webbing between the sleepers which makes fixed track keep its shape (possibly slightly harder plastic too)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 05, 2018, 12:47:03 PM
Same stuff. It's mostly the webbing between the sleepers which makes fixed track keep its shape (possibly slightly harder plastic too)

Ah interesting. Thank you!

Matt :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 05, 2018, 01:47:33 PM
Things are still rolling along, but nothing dramatically new to show. I've revised the tunnel portals to be more substantial, rather pleased I did this work.

I've also been finessing the mock-up of my station, I'm happy with the scale now and just need to get on with the final version, which will be in either plasticard or greyboard.

Track is also getting progressively fixed down. To think, initially I was going to have no points at all - ha ha!

Sorry I keep showing the same rolling stock, but all funds are going on scenics at the moment!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/7020-051218134229.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72104)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/7020-051218134316.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72105)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/7020-051218134647.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72106)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on December 05, 2018, 04:19:48 PM
It's looking very good.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 05, 2018, 04:33:28 PM
Same stuff. It's mostly the webbing between the sleepers which makes fixed track keep its shape (possibly slightly harder plastic too)

On the subject of track, Nick, how do you weather your ballast? Do you airbrush it or have you used other techniques before?

Cheers
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on December 05, 2018, 05:54:46 PM
Same stuff. It's mostly the webbing between the sleepers which makes fixed track keep its shape (possibly slightly harder plastic too)

On the subject of track, Nick, how do you weather your ballast? Do you airbrush it or have you used other techniques before?

Cheers

A light airbrush spray with a thinned mixture of Tamiya acrylics, mostly XF-52 Flat Earth with a little variation to suit the location eg. darker colours on old sidings and yards, a bit of brake dust in stations - that sort of thing. 
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 05, 2018, 09:36:26 PM
Same stuff. It's mostly the webbing between the sleepers which makes fixed track keep its shape (possibly slightly harder plastic too)

On the subject of track, Nick, how do you weather your ballast? Do you airbrush it or have you used other techniques before?

Cheers

Ah thought so. I'm not geared up for airbrushing, will have to stick with dry brush techniques etc.

Matt

A light airbrush spray with a thinned mixture of Tamiya acrylics, mostly XF-52 Flat Earth with a little variation to suit the location eg. darker colours on old sidings and yards, a bit of brake dust in stations - that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 14, 2018, 10:47:49 AM
Mountain
Finally my mountain no longer looks like a chocolate cake! It’s been very enjoyable doing the flocking and weathering effects and pleased with the outcome. Whoever suggested making the hill removable (think it was Nick) thank you for that!

Platform conundrum
I’m not quite sure what height to set the platforms at. I’m probably going to have a slab of raised ground in the centre of the layout so that the platform surface is at ‘ground level’.

The track in the station is, like all the track, sitting on 2mm thick cork directly on the baseboard. Current thinking is to raise the ground level that the station sits on with two pieces of sandwiched 5mm foam board. This effectively gives a platform height of 8mm from the bottom of the sleepers. However with ballasting filling the edges between the sleepers and the platform edge, it’s going to be an effective height of 6mm or 7mm. Does this sound about right? I’ve attached a diagram to clarify.  :hmmm:

Cheers
Matt


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/7020-141218104713.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72296)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/7020-141218104731.png) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72297)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on December 14, 2018, 11:12:55 AM
Great work :thumbsup:. You really have been busy Matt.
You might find this site useful when determining your platform heights. https://nscaleblog.wordpress.com/2015/02/25/minimum-platform-sizes-after-german-station-extension-on-nem-clearances/ (https://nscaleblog.wordpress.com/2015/02/25/minimum-platform-sizes-after-german-station-extension-on-nem-clearances/)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 14, 2018, 11:19:28 AM
Great work :thumbsup:. You really have been busy Matt.
You might find this site useful when determining your platform heights. https://nscaleblog.wordpress.com/2015/02/25/minimum-platform-sizes-after-german-station-extension-on-nem-clearances/ (https://nscaleblog.wordpress.com/2015/02/25/minimum-platform-sizes-after-german-station-extension-on-nem-clearances/)

Thanks John, and your link is really super-useful!  :thumbsup: :)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on December 14, 2018, 12:15:58 PM
That looks good Matt.
You’ve done an excellent job on that mountain.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Gizzy on December 14, 2018, 12:36:06 PM
I've been watching this thread for the last couple or three months now, and your layout is coming on nicely....
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on December 14, 2018, 12:55:40 PM
Looking good.   Personally I wouldn't bother raising the level of the entire inner part, just do it where you need it under the platform and station building itself.    Maybe add a little undulation here and there so it's not all dead flat.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 14, 2018, 01:09:41 PM
That looks good Matt.
You’ve done an excellent job on that mountain.

Thank you, yes dead happy with it!  :)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 14, 2018, 01:10:15 PM
I've been watching this thread for the last couple or three months now, and your layout is coming on nicely....

Cheers Gizzy!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 14, 2018, 01:11:34 PM
Looking good.   Personally I wouldn't bother raising the level of the entire inner part, just do it where you need it under the platform and station building itself.    Maybe add a little undulation here and there so it's not all dead flat.

Cheers! You may be right on this Nick, I'll have a ponder....

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 19, 2018, 03:48:50 PM
How rigorously do you guys stick to the era of your layout?

Modern image is my favourite but I also really like trains from the fifties, sixties, seventies etc....

Do you just buy and run what you fancy?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Gizzy on December 19, 2018, 04:11:02 PM
How rigorously do you guys stick to the era of your layout?

Modern image is my favourite but I also really like trains from the fifties, sixties, seventies etc....

Do you just buy and run what you fancy?
On my other scale's forum, we have rule 8;

'I run what I want, when I want, and if you don't like it, the door is over there'....  :bounce:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 19, 2018, 04:29:10 PM
How rigorously do you guys stick to the era of your layout?

Modern image is my favourite but I also really like trains from the fifties, sixties, seventies etc....

Do you just buy and run what you fancy?
On my other scale's forum, we have rule 8;

'I run what I want, when I want, and if you don't like it, the door is over there'....  :bounce:


Brilliant! I never knew about rule 8. What are the other rules incidentally?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: grumbeast on December 19, 2018, 04:50:05 PM
Stick to era! Pshaw!  I don't even stick to Geography :) Run what you like, I run UK, Canadian, UK, German, French.. from a bunch of eras (not at the same time mind you :)

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on December 19, 2018, 05:57:01 PM
I don't often run british/jap/american etc. models on my german layout (except for testing of course!) and definitely not at shows, but I do collect all sorts of stuff (usually translated by SWMBO as "way too much stuff")

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/5885-191218175056.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72509)

My layout has definitely moved forward in time since it was built.  The station has had canopies and an elevator fitted, more modern road vehicles have appeared etc. It's interesting looking back at the locos and stock featured in the Continental Modeller articles from the late 90s, compared to what I take to exhibitions nowadays.  I do still occasionally "wind the clock back" and run older stuff at shows  just for a change!

I've noticed a tendency over the past year or two to purchase more steamers for my collection, my excuse being I've got most of the modern locos I want and the next module under construction is a loco depot with steam museum attached!

As @Gizzy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7044) days, on the G scale forum rule 8 is "run whatever you like, it's your railway" and on here I think it's rule 1?


Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on December 19, 2018, 06:57:00 PM
I run UK, Japanese and American stock, in an era that spans from the 1920s to the modern day. I think there is some sort of time warp and time travelling machine in the railway room. The poor occupants do not know whether they are coming or going, or even if they have been! (Well, they won't once I get the layout completed and because of the time warp thingy, that might be tomorrow, but more like next year, or the year after, or .....). I am a firm believer in Rule 1.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 19, 2018, 07:44:40 PM
I don't often run british/jap/american etc. models on my german layout (except for testing of course!) and definitely not at shows, but I do collect all sorts of stuff (usually translated by SWMBO as "way too much stuff")

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/5885-191218175056.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72509)

My layout has definitely moved forward in time since it was built.  The station has had canopies and an elevator fitted, more modern road vehicles have appeared etc. It's interesting looking back at the locos and stock featured in the Continental Modeller articles from the late 90s, compared to what I take to exhibitions nowadays.  I do still occasionally "wind the clock back" and run older stuff at shows  just for a change!

I've noticed a tendency over the past year or two to purchase more steamers for my collection, my excuse being I've got most of the modern locos I want and the next module under construction is a loco depot with steam museum attached!

As @Gizzy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7044) days, on the G scale forum rule 8 is "run whatever you like, it's your railway" and on here I think it's rule 1?

Lol great photo Nick! that must be the 08:45 express from Swindon to Nürnberg? :D

I must admit when I planned my layout I was thinking all colourful, ultra modern, electric, German region. However come to think of it I'm strongly drawn towards diesels and retro electrics. I've also had a very pleasing forray into freight which was unexpected, traditionally that never appealed so much to me!

Of course I also like British outline, especially the 1980s stuff. And Amtrac trains have always appealed, I actually did some inter-railing around the United States on them.

Good to know that others collect whatever they want! Think I was getting a bit too hung up on cohesiveness.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 19, 2018, 07:48:34 PM
I run UK, Japanese and American stock, in an era that spans from the 1920s to the modern day. I think there is some sort of time warp and time travelling machine in the railway room. The poor occupants do not know whether they are coming or going, or even if they have been! (Well, they won't once I get the layout completed and because of the time warp thingy, that might be tomorrow, but more like next year, or the year after, or .....). I am a firm believer in Rule 1.  :thumbsup:

Great David! It's probably some sort of temporal flux, like in Star Trek. :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 19, 2018, 07:50:08 PM
I don't often run british/jap/american etc. models on my german layout (except for testing of course!) and definitely not at shows, but I do collect all sorts of stuff (usually translated by SWMBO as "way too much stuff")


Ha ha SWMBO, I just got it - I used to watch Rumpole LOL
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: grumbeast on December 19, 2018, 08:13:48 PM
However come to think of it I'm strongly drawn towards diesels and retro electrics. I've also had a very pleasing forray into freight which was unexpected, traditionally that never appealed so much to me!

Of course I also like British outline, especially the 1980s stuff. And Amtrac trains have always appealed, I actually did some inter-railing around the United States on them.

Good to know that others collect whatever they want! Think I was getting a bit too hung up on cohesiveness.

Its like an all you can eat Buffet Globi .. why restrict yourself :)  I like to think that us Rule 1 (or 8) model railroaders are the true hedonists of the hobby :)

Also, those lovely old green jackstaff electrics like the BR191 and the swiss crocs are just too tempting to not acquire :)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 19, 2018, 08:20:09 PM

Its like an all you can eat Buffet Globi .. why restrict yourself :)  I like to think that us Rule 1 (or 8) model railroaders are the true hedonists of the hobby :)

Also, those lovely old green jackstaff electrics like the BR191 and the swiss crocs are just too tempting to not acquire :)

Great metaphor of the buffet! I'll go ahead and indulge myself.

Yes those Swiss crocs are quite something!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on December 19, 2018, 10:36:34 PM
So... what was I saying earlier about buying older locos recently?  :D   Latest ebay purchases, both in mint or near mint condition

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/5885-191218223045.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72525)

I've had a black mallet in the fleet since the mid 80s, it's one of my most powerful locos (and yes, if anyone else was watching this one on ebay I did end up paying a bit more than I'd intended due to an uncharacteristic slip of the typing fingers, but not stupidly excessive and she is gorgeous!)


Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 20, 2018, 11:04:45 AM
So... what was I saying earlier about buying older locos recently?  :D   Latest ebay purchases, both in mint or near mint condition

Nice purchases Nick, I especially like the little green loco - fab!

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on December 20, 2018, 12:59:49 PM
Nice purchases Nick, I especially like the little green loco - fab!

Yeah, it's a BR132.  An older produciton model but smooth as silk as you'd expect from Fleischmann.  I've had a similar Swedish 1-D-1 loco in the fleet since the 80s.    As @grumbeast (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=192)  would say, goes well with the Roco BR191 and the Arnold and Minitrix Swiss Krocodils in the historic collection  :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 21, 2018, 05:35:28 PM
Nice purchases Nick, I especially like the little green loco - fab!

Yeah, it's a BR132.  An older produciton model but smooth as silk as you'd expect from Fleischmann.  I've had a similar Swedish 1-D-1 loco in the fleet since the 80s.    As @grumbeast (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=192)  would say, goes well with the Roco BR191 and the Arnold and Minitrix Swiss Krocodils in the historic collection  :D

Nice!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: railsquid on December 22, 2018, 12:55:41 AM
I too suffer from a bad case of regional and temporal flux.

On the plus side, it's surprising how often the internet will pop up a "justification" for some previoius random purchase  :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 22, 2018, 07:56:41 AM
I too suffer from a bad case of regional and temporal flux.

On the plus side, it's surprising how often the internet will pop up a "justification" for some previoius random purchase  :beers:

Yes it's true - often reality is more bizzare than fiction! In Switzerland they are more than happy to stick a 1960s loco in original livery in front of an Intercity. :laugh:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 22, 2018, 08:00:46 AM
Announcement:  there will be a series of heavy engineering works on my layout during the Christmas period. My single Noch 1:160 passenger is advised to check for timetable alterations prior to travelling!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/7020-221218075930.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72573)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on December 22, 2018, 08:43:26 AM
No worries.....he can sit on too of that ballast waggon.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 22, 2018, 09:23:46 AM
No worries.....he can sit on too of that ballast waggon.

Ha ha yes it may come to that!  :D

Happy Christmas fellow model train fans!   :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on December 22, 2018, 09:30:10 AM
Happy Christmas fellow model train fans!   :beers:

Happy Christmas Matt and good luck with your ballasting. Take particular care around your points.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 22, 2018, 09:33:06 AM
Happy Christmas fellow model train fans!   :beers:

Happy Christmas Matt and good luck with your ballasting. Take particular care around your points.

Thank you John, yes I will do, I'm being as careful as possible around the points I know how delicate they are!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 22, 2018, 11:15:59 AM
Going through Max Hintermann's brilliant SBB archive http://bahnbilder-von-max.ch/ (http://bahnbilder-von-max.ch/) and found this: the original mock up SBB did for their double decker coaches! ;D

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/7020-221218111445.png) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72580)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on December 22, 2018, 11:32:48 AM
I wonder if it still exists?
SBB could tag it onto the back of freight trains and offer cheap travel. :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 22, 2018, 01:18:36 PM
I wonder if it still exists?
SBB could tag it onto the back of freight trains and offer cheap travel. :D
Lol yes I wonder! It looks like something the BBC props department knocked together for an eighties Dr Who episode! :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: daffy on December 22, 2018, 02:59:58 PM
Many thanks for the link to Max Hintermann’s Archive Matt. :thumbsup:

Looking forward to navigating my way around the pictures.

I love the double deckers, a host of wonderful journeys made over the years by  my good lady and I on these, though making a mistake and sitting on a very crowded train in the kindergarten wagon was not a highlight! :no:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 22, 2018, 03:10:29 PM
Many thanks for the link to Max Hintermann’s Archive Matt. :thumbsup:

Looking forward to navigating my way around the pictures.

I love the double deckers, a host of wonderful journeys made over the years by  my good lady and I on these, though making a mistake and sitting on a very crowded train in the kindergarten wagon was not a highlight! :no:

I think you'll really enjoy the archive. It's amazing how high tech the infrastructure looks that the SBB installed in the 1960s. There's also a few great candid shots of people on there.

I'm also a fan of the double-deckers  :) :thumbsup: Yes the Kinderwagen is not the ideal place to sit for a restful jouney! :doh:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 24, 2018, 03:54:25 PM
Grrr, just received a second hand loco that's a total dog. It goes grinding and stuttering around the layout seeming to be about to conk out terminally at any moment.

Wasn't very cheap either - luckily I can send it back for refund, literally can't wait to get shot of it. So much for my Christmas present to self!!!  :veryangry:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on December 24, 2018, 05:07:12 PM
Grrr, just received a second hand loco that's a total dog. It goes grinding and stuttering around the layout seeming to be about to conk out terminally at any moment.

Wasn't very cheap either - luckily I can send it back for refund, literally can't wait to get shot of it. So much for my Christmas present to self!!!  :veryangry:
Sorry to hear that Matt.
Maybe it just needs a good clean? What model is it?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 24, 2018, 05:12:38 PM
Grrr, just received a second hand loco that's a total dog. It goes grinding and stuttering around the layout seeming to be about to conk out terminally at any moment.

Wasn't very cheap either - luckily I can send it back for refund, literally can't wait to get shot of it. So much for my Christmas present to self!!!  :veryangry:
Sorry to hear that Matt.
Maybe it just needs a good clean? What model is it?

Hi John
It's a Hobbycraft Re 6/6 - I can't be faffed with it so I'm just going to return it. Sure I'll find something else that takes my fancy. On the plus side I did order some nice Minitrix and Roco TEN stock to go with it, so looking forward to those turning up.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: daffy on December 24, 2018, 05:20:17 PM
Matt, was this ‘rogue’ buy from a recognised seller, or an eBay purchase? I would hope in either case they would be happy to repair, refund, or whatever. Is it a seller we should be wary of?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 24, 2018, 05:22:11 PM
Matt, was this ‘rogue’ buy from a recognised seller, or an eBay purchase? I would hope in either case they would be happy to repair, refund, or whatever. Is it a seller we should be wary of?

Hi Daffy, it's a well known UK shop on Ebay. I'll let you know if I get any issues refunding it! I just don't think they bothered checking it well enough.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: daffy on December 24, 2018, 05:25:34 PM
Maybe one that failed to go through scrutiny in the pre-Christmas rush to get items out. Hopefully all will be well.

Merry Christmas Matt! :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 24, 2018, 05:33:54 PM
Maybe one that failed to go through scrutiny in the pre-Christmas rush to get items out. Hopefully all will be well.

Merry Christmas Matt! :beers:

Yep I reckon that's what happened too!

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on December 24, 2018, 07:36:30 PM
Must admit I have come across a couple of duff ones of those when testing possible 2nd hand purchases, which is rare for a Kato-made loco.  I don't know if the chassis design has changed over the years, but they were in the Hobbytrain range in the mid 80s.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on December 24, 2018, 08:37:50 PM
Although still made by Kato quite a few changes were made when the Lemke/Hobbytrain version of the Re6/6 was released. A common fault on the original Kurt Moser/Hobbytrain version was the track/pantograph changeover switch working loose. I haven't experienced any problems with the later version.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 25, 2018, 09:33:57 AM
This is a really interesting documentary for Swiss-fans. Although it is in Swiss German, it is worth just scrolling through it as you can get the gist with the visuals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUUPO9z-cQ4&t=1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUUPO9z-cQ4&t=1s)

If you have ever been in a train over the Gotthard pass and looked upwards and thought to yourself 'who on earth does farming all the way up there?' this film demonstrates this.

It's a sad story though: Sepp Giesler the farmer lives on a farm with his family, with no road - only accesible by a tiny cable car - far above lake Uri and the northern ramp of the Gotthard railway, where he rears cattle.  Aged 62, he is one of the 'Wildheuer' - one who does haymaking on the precarious steep slopes above the cliffs, with no safety gear at all apart from climber's crampons on his boots.

The sad points in the film are when he has to take his young bull down to the valley to be slaughtered - he has to sit with it in the cable car (in order to sooth it), at the maximum weight allowance - all the way down the mountain!!!

Unfortunately Sepp does not feature in the last ten minutes of the film, as after 40 years of wild haymaking, he slips on the meadow (see the place at 39:02 - it's horrifying) and falls 300 meters to his death. His young daughter and her partner have now taken over the farm and they continue the wild haymaking.

So if you look up and see those neatly tended slopes, it's all because of the brave 'Wildheuer'.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 25, 2018, 02:45:20 PM
Ballasting and track laying are progressing!


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/7020-251218144432.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72638)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/7020-251218144454.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72639)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/7020-251218144517.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72640)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: mika on December 25, 2018, 03:43:41 PM
Hi Matt,

the photo of your 101 look very good and belies (is this a word?) the size of the layout. Well done on the ballasting as well.
Thanks for sharing.

Merry Christmas!
Michael
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on December 25, 2018, 07:02:29 PM
Looking good Matt.  :thumbsup:
Isn't it satisfying when it all starts to come together?
Will you be brush painting your rails?  I would think that air-brushing would be difficult to do without spoiling your "concrete" sleeper effect.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 26, 2018, 11:30:27 AM
Hi Matt,

the photo of your 101 look very good and belies (is this a word?) the size of the layout. Well done on the ballasting as well.
Thanks for sharing.

Merry Christmas!
Michael

Thank you Michael, yes I like that photo. Happy Christmas to you too!

Matt  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 26, 2018, 11:31:50 AM
Looking good Matt.  :thumbsup:
Isn't it satisfying when it all starts to come together?
Will you be brush painting your rails?  I would think that air-brushing would be difficult to do without spoiling your "concrete" sleeper effect.

Thanks John, yes it sure is satisfying. I'll be going for the brush painting methinks. Should I use enamel, I notice that Tamiya acrylics don't stick to the rail that well?

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on December 26, 2018, 11:57:59 AM
Yes Matt a matt :) enamel will be fine. I use Humbrol 98 but obviously the choice is yours. Many modellers like to use combinations of different colours.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 26, 2018, 12:24:37 PM
Yes Matt a matt :) enamel will be fine. I use Humbrol 98 but obviously the choice is yours. Many modellers like to use combinations of different colours.

Grand, that's the way I'll go!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 30, 2018, 06:04:54 PM
A protoype question on push pull:

On the basis that front wheel drive and rear wheel drive cars peform differently, is this the same with trains? Is the torque/traction/braking/cornering etc. any different when pushing/pulling?  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on December 30, 2018, 07:53:37 PM
Matt

In my view there is an important question about push-pull which attracted a lot of attention after a dreadful accident which occurred in 1984.

Here is a link to the report which makes interesting reading (there's a reference to the DB as well).

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Polmont1984.pdf (http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Polmont1984.pdf)

I certainly know on the ECML electrics if I'm being pulled or pushed although in the absence of a 'blind test' this is very unscientific.

John
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on December 30, 2018, 08:18:22 PM
Matt

In my view there is an important question about push-pull which attracted a lot of attention after a dreadful accident which occurred in 1984.

Here is a link to the report which makes interesting reading (there's a reference to the DB as well).

[url]http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Polmont1984.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Polmont1984.pdf[/url])

I certainly know on the ECML electrics if I'm being pulled or pushed although in the absence of a 'blind test' this is very unscientific.

John


Hi John

That's a really interesting report, I did not know about that accident!

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: grumbeast on January 07, 2019, 08:20:03 PM
dont know much about it, but I would imagine the forces are all different when pushing,

In other news, I'm glad to see you are scenicking a bit at a time, I've learned this lesson finally as I never seem to get to the scenery before I have to tear down a layout as I tend to do all of something at once.  This time, a section complete at a time so I get some satisfaction!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 08, 2019, 02:39:08 PM
dont know much about it, but I would imagine the forces are all different when pushing,

In other news, I'm glad to see you are scenicking a bit at a time, I've learned this lesson finally as I never seem to get to the scenery before I have to tear down a layout as I tend to do all of something at once.  This time, a section complete at a time so I get some satisfaction!

Hi Grumbeast!

Thank you! Yes I quite like doing bits of scenicking at a time - gives more motivation to see it gradually come to life. And I like to play trains if possible when not building.

But, proceed with caution! - I'm discovering it can make it harder if you are needing to 'undo' any sections to make adjustments. If I was a robot, it would undoubtedly be much more efficient time and effort-wise to complete each stage one at a time - ie.e. get all track laid, get all track ballasted, then get on with scenery.

But, (at last check anyway), I'm not a robot.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 09, 2019, 02:17:44 PM
Nuts! My worst nightmare happened - I've had PVA leach into the tie-bar of a deeply embedded point. I must have got careless. Tried to rescue it but I'll have to replace it, it's fooked.

Pity, It was some of the neatest ballasting I've done so far. :'(


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-090119141740.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73018)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on January 09, 2019, 02:44:21 PM
Now that is what we in the hobby call a "Whoops" moment. (Or words to that effect  :)).
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on January 09, 2019, 06:27:11 PM
Oh no, that's another point you've killed isn't it   :'( ?    Should be possible to clean it out, has it gone in the point motor or just the tiebar?   Probably easier to do when not in situ.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 09, 2019, 07:15:39 PM
Now that is what we in the hobby call a "Whoops" moment. (Or words to that effect  :)).

Yes, words to that effect!!! :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 09, 2019, 07:17:48 PM
Oh no, that's another point you've killed isn't it   :'( ?    Should be possible to clean it out, has it gone in the point motor or just the tiebar?   Probably easier to do when not in situ.

Yes, I am the proverbial slayer of points! T'was just the tie bar - a very thin bead of PVA, not even visible (I could just see it seeping around).

Actually, now I've torn it out it's started working ok again (seemingly). I've already ordered a replacement - typical! I either risk putting it back in or cut my lossess and put the new one in. Stress!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 10, 2019, 07:59:28 AM
Ok this is the first one I've been able to rescue. Unlike Tamiya paint, PVA is at least water soluble. It can go back in!

Phew. :bounce:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 11, 2019, 10:55:01 AM
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-110119105131.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73070)

This one's just for you John! I've added two matching Minitrix TEN cars to complete my rake. I managed to find them new online at https://www.modellbahn-klettke.de/ (https://www.modellbahn-klettke.de/) in Germany - I highly recommend them, payment by Paypal accepted and dispatch by DHL super fast and efficient.

At some future point I'll be adding a suitable 1970s loco.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 11, 2019, 11:04:41 AM
Thanks for the photo Matt. The coaches look great together. Do you have any particular class of loco in mind?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 11, 2019, 11:19:22 AM
Thanks for the photo Matt. The coaches look great together. Do you have any particular class of loco in mind?

Cheers John I'm super happy with them!

Loco-wise, it's going to be dependant on what comes up on Ebay in the next few months, but it'll probably be in the Green RE 4/4 or RE 6/6 ballpark or possibly DB-wise an BR110 in blue or blue/cream or DB103 or some such. I was even thinking a V200 in black and maroon although it's a tad early for the epoch. Well shall see! At the moment I've got a red DB101 towing them which is just silly, however it gets them moving in the interim  :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 11, 2019, 11:50:41 AM

……………... I've got a red DB101 towing them which is just silly, however it gets them moving in the interim  :D


As we always say...….It's your layout and you can do what you like. :P
You're obviously pleased with your purchase so until you can find a suitable loco it's much better to have the sleepers running on your layout than parked up in a siding. (or worse still, in their boxes)
I've certainly had some strange combinations running on my layout over the years. :D

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 11, 2019, 12:28:19 PM

As we always say...….It's your layout and you can do what you like. :P
You're obviously pleased with your purchase so until you can find a suitable loco it's much better to have the sleepers running on your layout than parked up in a siding. (or worse still, in their boxes)
I've certainly had some strange combinations running on my layout over the years. :D

I agree totally!  :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 11, 2019, 12:44:41 PM
More PVA'ing today. Huge respect to those who have completed large layouts, this small one's taking forever! I suppose it's like reading a book - as in you want to reach the end but when you get there you wish you were working on something again!

It is very satisfying seeing finished sections of ballasting. Iv'e also layed in some disconnected track which is going to be a 'ghost' siding, all grown over and with a diorama-tye scene with a piece of rotting stock sitting on it.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-110119124119.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73072)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-110119124214.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73073)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on January 11, 2019, 12:49:37 PM
Maybe use a little less dilute PVA?  If it's leaking out from the ballast that much then perhaps that's how it's getting into points etc :-)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 11, 2019, 12:55:46 PM
Maybe use a little less dilute PVA?  If it's leaking out from the ballast that much then perhaps that's how it's getting into points etc :-)

Good idea, you're right! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Train Waiting on January 11, 2019, 01:45:08 PM
It's really good to see this layout coming to life.  Many thanks for the informative posts and good photographs.

John
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 11, 2019, 02:05:08 PM
It's really good to see this layout coming to life.  Many thanks for the informative posts and good photographs.

John

Thanks John, it's my pleasure! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 11, 2019, 02:48:18 PM
……………….. Iv'e also layed in some disconnected track which is going to be a 'ghost' siding, all grown over and with a diorama-tye scene with a piece of rotting stock sitting on it.



That's a great idea Matt. I watch quite a few cabride videos on YouTube and there is certainly no shortage of disused sidings in Germany. There must be a fortune in scrap metal lying beneath those weeds.:)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: weave on January 11, 2019, 05:30:58 PM
Hi Globi,

All looking good although agree you might have overdone it with the glue a bit.

Love the TEN sleeper coaches. Have got a couple of the SNCF (Nuit) and one FS (Notte) in blue but might have to get a Nacht one in red for colour. German tourists are always welcome on my layout.

Please don't think you're going too slow. A. Your overtaking me slightly and B. Don't rush it or you'll regret it. Got the T-shirt.

Always looking forward to more.

Cheers weave  :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 11, 2019, 06:17:14 PM
Hi Globi,

All looking good although agree you might have overdone it with the glue a bit.

Love the TEN sleeper coaches. Have got a couple of the SNCF (Nuit) and one FS (Notte) in blue but might have to get a Nacht one in red for colour. German tourists are always welcome on my layout.

Please don't think you're going too slow. A. Your overtaking me slightly and B. Don't rush it or you'll regret it. Got the T-shirt.

Always looking forward to more.

Cheers weave  :beers:

Hi Weave,

Thank you, glad you are one of the night train club also, so-to-speak! Yes those are wise words, I'll carry on taking my time.  :thumbsup:

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on January 11, 2019, 06:18:22 PM
Just to join in it is all looking really good (except perhaps  the overindulgence with the glue).
It’s great to be able to follow your trials and tribulations as the layout develops.
All great fun.
Martin
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on January 12, 2019, 12:22:17 PM
Was watching this just now, it reminded me of your questions about push-pull.  A couple of times we see two Railjet push-pull sets paired together with one Taurus in the middle - not seen that before.

Also a tamper, a pair of Ludmillas on a long freight... all sorts of interest to we continental modellers.

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 12, 2019, 01:23:05 PM
Just to join in it is all looking really good (except perhaps  the overindulgence with the glue).
It’s great to be able to follow your trials and tribulations as the layout develops.
All great fun.
Martin

Thanks Martin  :beers:. On this occasion my flood of glue dried without mishap. But I'll definitely use much less in future. On the plus side, my ballast could withstand a 20 megaton hydrogen bomb plast, always handy!

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 12, 2019, 01:27:10 PM
Was watching this just now, it reminded me of your questions about push-pull.  A couple of times we see two Railjet push-pull sets paired together with one Taurus in the middle - not seen that before.

Also a tamper, a pair of Ludmillas on a long freight... all sorts of interest to we continental modellers.


That's a good vid! I've seen a video with a whole compilation of weird Railjet combos, which included: Czech Railjet loco with OBB carriages, OBB Railjet loco with Czech Railjet carriages, OBB Railjet with faded red OBB loco, OBB railjet with ordinary OBB carriages tagged on the end, OBB Railjet with random Taurus in the middle. It's almost like they've been inspired by 'Rule 1' model railway-ists!  :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 12, 2019, 06:44:12 PM
Was watching this just now, it reminded me of your questions about push-pull.  A couple of times we see two Railjet push-pull sets paired together with one Taurus in the middle - not seen that before.

Also a tamper, a pair of Ludmillas on a long freight... all sorts of interest to we continental modellers.



I like Holzi's videos. Thanks for the link Nick although I must confess to misunderstanding your description. I was expecting to see a single Taurus pulling/pushing two 7 coach Railjet sets. :-[
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 15, 2019, 08:30:42 AM
I've revised my PVA'ing technique somewhat. The track on the right is freshly wet and setting....  :angel:


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-150119082917.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73182)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 15, 2019, 08:55:54 AM
Despite the small problems you have had I really think the results are looking good.
I have tried using a syringe when ballasting but always found it difficult to control for small amounts of PVA.
I prefer to use a glass medicine/eye dropper.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on January 15, 2019, 08:59:03 AM
I have tried using a syringe when ballasting but always found it difficult to control for small amounts of PVA.
I prefer to use a glass medicine/eye dropper.

I was about to write the same thing - I use a plastic pipette rather than a syringe.  They're readily available on "tool stands" at shows (and of course on ebay etc.)   I usually by a new pack every year or so, for about £1. Canterbury show this weekend so probably time to get some more  :D

This kind of thing:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-3ML-DISPOSABLE-PASTEUR-PIPETTES-GRADUATED/160994835497?hash=item257c0a3c29:g:jCIAAOxyCepSc4tS:rk:12:pf:0 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-3ML-DISPOSABLE-PASTEUR-PIPETTES-GRADUATED/160994835497?hash=item257c0a3c29:g:jCIAAOxyCepSc4tS:rk:12:pf:0)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 15, 2019, 09:05:19 AM
Hi Nick and John,

Yes I agree with both of you, it is difficult to control the syringe. I'll get hold of some of those eye droppers!

Cheers  :beers: :thumbsup:
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 16, 2019, 09:31:42 AM
Morning all,

I've got a question. I've laid a thin layer of grey plaster down on my goods yard and sanded it back to a smooth finish. I like the textures but it's all rather to light in colour so I'll need to paint it (to represent compacted dust or tarmac). I want a really matt finish, not sure which type of paint though.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-160119093213.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73202)

I've ruled these out:
1. Tamiya matt paints - too expensive for large areas like this
2. Household matt emulsion - still slightly glossy
3. Artists' acrylics - too glossy

So i'm thinking of options like:
1. Artists' gouache (but it won't dry water resistant)
2. Hobbycraft powder paint/premixed type stuff, which is what I've been mixing into the plaster.
3. Artists' acrylics followed by coat of matt varnish (bit long-winded applying this and hairs can get stuck in it etc.)

Any tips appreciated! It will be brush applied then scumbled and scuffed up. :hmmm:

Cheers
Matt

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on January 16, 2019, 09:37:57 AM
I am sure I have read somewhere, that sprinkling talcum powder onto wet paint will give a matte finish, but I have never tried this, so can not say whether it would work or not.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 16, 2019, 10:30:04 AM
Is it a dull day or a sunny day on your layout? :D I don't think what you have now looks particularly out of place for stone/concrete based material on a sunny day. Obviously the colour of the yard will also be determined to some extent by the activities taking place there but that's something that can be added later.
For this type of area I tend to use the cheap pre-mixed powder paint that shops such as "The Works" sell for kids. I just keep mixing colours until I get what I want. I imagine the paints that I use are similar to the Hobbycraft ones that you have already used.
I did try David's talcum powder trick once but found that the results were a bit too "textured" for N gauge although it would probably look OK in the larger scales.

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 16, 2019, 11:18:14 AM
Is it a dull day or a sunny day on your layout? :D I don't think what you have now looks particularly out of place for stone/concrete based material on a sunny day. Obviously the colour of the yard will also be determined to some extent by the activities taking place there but that's something that can be added later.
For this type of area I tend to use the cheap pre-mixed powder paint that shops such as "The Works" sell for kids. I just keep mixing colours until I get what I want. I imagine the paints that I use are similar to the Hobbycraft ones that you have already used.
I did try David's talcum powder trick once but found that the results were a bit too "textured" for N gauge although it would probably look OK in the larger scales.

Well I'm aiming for sunny spells with a light westerly wind  :D

I may just leave it actually, otherwise I'll use the cheapy paints you suggest!

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on January 16, 2019, 12:44:31 PM
Most probably I would use my thinned down Tamiya acrylics which I keep for blending scenery, trackwork etc. Airbruhing will only need a thin coat.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: daffy on January 16, 2019, 02:00:53 PM
Matt, for future similar areas, one trick you could try is to add coloured powder paints to your plaster as you mix it, thereby getting a good basic colour down. You could then add subsequent colour as required to the finished area to get a non-uniform look.

 As with rock and cliff scenery plasterwork done this way, any areas subsequently damaged won’t show up as glaring white.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 16, 2019, 02:09:23 PM
Most probably I would use my thinned down Tamiya acrylics which I keep for blending scenery, trackwork etc. Airbruhing will only need a thin coat.

Ah yes thinning the Tamiyas down could work well! Cheers  :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 16, 2019, 02:10:26 PM
Matt, for future similar areas, one trick you could try is to add coloured powder paints to your plaster as you mix it, thereby getting a good basic colour down. You could then add subsequent colour as required to the finished area to get a non-uniform look.

 As with rock and cliff scenery plasterwork done this way, any areas subsequently damaged won’t show up as glaring white.

That's a good tip Daffy! Cheers  8) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: grumbeast on January 16, 2019, 06:07:02 PM
This is looking really good and is inspiring me to get on with my layout more.  Don't worry about going too slowly, as I've learned that I shouldn't rush

cant wait to see more, I should really start a thread myself
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 17, 2019, 10:22:15 AM
I was browsing on Ebay for a retro 1970s electric loco for my TEN night train rake. But my finger accidentally slipped and I bought this RTS Diesellok instead (talk about Rule No. 1)!

I've popped in a Zimo direct plug decoder. I made a little Tamiya masking tape insulation pad, to stop the decoder touching the main PCB by accident.

On initial testing she seems to run beautifully! :bounce:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-170119102034.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73232)


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-170119102102.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73233)

Anybody want me to ship some cargo for them? :D

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-170119104702.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73234)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 17, 2019, 11:32:00 AM
That's a great looking loco Matt. I see you are now starting to encompass Austria.
Have you seen the Fleischmann 4 panto RTS Swietelsky Taurus?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 17, 2019, 11:37:53 AM
That's a great looking loco Matt. I see you are now starting to encompass Austria.
Have you seen the Fleischmann 4 panto RTS Swietelsky Taurus?

Thank you John! Yes I've seen that multisystem loco whilst browsing - I love Tauruses (Tauri?), will certainly be keeping my eye out for any used ones. In the meantime I'm happy enough sputtering my imaginary diesel fumes over the alpine landscape  :D

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on January 17, 2019, 12:50:17 PM
Well you need diesels as you have no catenary   :D  :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 17, 2019, 02:23:32 PM
Well you need diesels as you have no catenary   :D  :D

LOL yes indeed Nick, as I'm painfully aware! Not to worry though, it shall appear (as if by magic) as a later phase. ;D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: grumbeast on January 17, 2019, 05:01:59 PM
Aaah Catenary, the great challenge for all continental layouts :)  cant wait to see what you do with the overhead.  I was lucky enough to find a box of old nice catenary and wire at a show in Vancouver for CDN$50  Its in good shape, but I'm not sure if I'll use the wires or just the masts.  What do you plan on doing?

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on January 17, 2019, 06:09:16 PM
.. I'm not sure if I'll use the wires or just the masts.

I've seen a few layouts which just have the masts and no wires, the argument being that the wires are pretty much invisible from normal viewing distances.

Personally I like the effect of the pantographs riding the wires, so my layout has a full installation using the old Vollmer and Minitrix stuff in the scenic sections. I don't bother to energise it though, and have no "knitting" in the storage yard.   It's definitely overscale but robust enough to have survived 70+ exhibitions over 20+ years.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/5885-170119180546.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73249)



(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/5885-170119180812.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73250)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on January 17, 2019, 06:11:46 PM
Hmm... what's this Spanish electric unit doing in Germany??  :D  :D

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/5885-170119181138.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73251)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: grumbeast on January 17, 2019, 06:20:10 PM
Great looking layout!  I'm going to see if I can manage to get the wire to work just for fun.  Seeing a continental layout at a show in I think Carmarthen many many years ago is what got me into European railways.  I still remember this Swiss croc coming of a tunnel and the panto moving up and down against the wire.. I was hooked!  it was so cool to see
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: daffy on January 17, 2019, 07:23:45 PM
I have to admit that the reason I will only have representative catenary masts (not as many as would be seen, plus no wires) one day is cost. Even with the cheaper masts a whole set-up will somewhat eat the budget, which I’d rather use for rolling stock and scenics.

That’s even though I would agree that locos running around with pantographs raised look a bit daft without having something for them to engage with, or just appear to engage with. As your layout proves Nick, full catenary in place does look so much better.

And I look forward to seeing catenary appearing on your layout Matt.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 18, 2019, 06:17:54 PM
Aaah Catenary, the great challenge for all continental layouts :)  cant wait to see what you do with the overhead.  I was lucky enough to find a box of old nice catenary and wire at a show in Vancouver for CDN$50  Its in good shape, but I'm not sure if I'll use the wires or just the masts.  What do you plan on doing?

I'm going to use HO rail to make masts, probably soldered. Most likely I'll have no wires. We'll see, like I say, that's going to be the final phase of the project.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 18, 2019, 06:19:40 PM
I have to admit that the reason I will only have representative catenary masts (not as many as would be seen, plus no wires) one day is cost. Even with the cheaper masts a whole set-up will somewhat eat the budget, which I’d rather use for rolling stock and scenics.

That’s even though I would agree that locos running around with pantographs raised look a bit daft without having something for them to engage with, or just appear to engage with. As your layout proves Nick, full catenary in place does look so much better.

And I look forward to seeing catenary appearing on your layout Matt.

Likewise Daffy, I just can't be spedning a zillion pounds (or a gizillion euros) on pre-made catenary!!!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 18, 2019, 09:25:12 PM
Whether or not to add wires to the masts is a question that crops up regularly. Personally I think that the type of layout plays a big part in answering the question. There is no doubt that a pantograph riding the wires looks good but to obtain that effect requires a fully wired overhead system that is substantial enough to withstand the forces exerted on it. In N Gauge, unless you have the skills to design and build your own, this invariably means overscale masts and wires and whilst you can get away with this on a large exhibition layout with predominantly straight tracks the catenary starts to look overpowering on a small home layout.  Even in N Gauge many of us still have unrealistically sharp curves on our layouts and the number of masts required to fully wire one of these curves only serves to emphasise their existence.
On my last Swiss layout, like Nick, I used fully wired Vollmer catenary and although it wasn’t really the correct style I didn’t think it looked too bad. That was probably because most of the visible track was straight with the curves hidden in tunnels. When I started on my current layout I had every intention of using the correct style Sommerfeldt catenary, once again fully wired and although I later abandoned the idea all my tunnels still contain the solid catenary that the visible wires were going to link to. I started to install the masts and wiring on one of my curves and was amazed at just how many were required to get a fully functioning system. I thought it looked awful and immediately decided to abandon the idea of a fully wired operating system and just use masts and gantries to create the impression of an electrified railway. The masts can now be virtually correct scale and because they do not need to carry wires you can cheat to some extent and space them further apart than they would normally be. As it happens more and more locos are now being sold with pantographs that either won’t track along overhead wires or are too flimsy to do so without being damaged so I don’t feel too bad about losing my wires. :no:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: grumbeast on January 18, 2019, 10:00:49 PM
Thats a very good bit of advice John, thanks for sharing it.  Thats whats great here is that we can get opinions from people who have actually tried what we're attempting!

Cheers

 Graham
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on January 18, 2019, 10:24:48 PM
As it happens more and more locos are now being sold with pantographs that either won’t track along overhead wires or are too flimsy to do so without being damaged

Yes that is definitely a phenomenon I've encountered too: newer models with finer and narrower panto heads.  I have to be careful to try any new loco slowly round the layout to make sure the head doesn't fall off the wire or catch at pointwork. On a couple of locos I've actually replaced the panto heads with older style wider Sommerfeldt heads.

I tried to stick to reasonable curves on the scenic section of my line. This curve which also incorporates a crossover and other pointwork is one place where there are more masts than I'd like, but I wanted to avoid any need to actually curve the wires (that's so unrealistic looking in my eyes).

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/5885-180119221950.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73290)

Hmm  Swiss trains have definitely invaded Germany in these photos I've been posting   :D    I do love these old Hobbytrain units though.

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 19, 2019, 07:03:04 AM
Whether or not to add wires to the masts is a question that crops up regularly. Personally I think that the type of layout plays a big part in answering the question.

That's really interesting John to hear of your experiences with this. I have to admit I figured that sharp curves were going to a problem and had therefore already mentally ruled out having wires. Now I know they would definitely be a big problem.

I think layouts look really good without the wires, as per John's. I have no problem with running locos with the pantographs down. :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 19, 2019, 07:08:46 AM
As it happens more and more locos are now being sold with pantographs that either won’t track along overhead wires or are too flimsy to do so without being damaged

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/5885-180119221950.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73290)

Hmm  Swiss trains have definitely invaded Germany in these photos I've been posting   :D    I do love these old Hobbytrain units though.

That shot is Eurocity-grey-mouse-tastic! I remember travelling on a grey mouse from Zürich to Milan many moons ago. It had electrically operated blinds on each window, something I found very impressive!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 19, 2019, 09:23:13 AM
............….Hmm  Swiss trains have definitely invaded Germany in these photos I've been posting   :D    I do love these old Hobbytrain units though.


Yes Nick, great models although the inter-car connectors on the earlier versions could be a bit temperamental. They were from the days when Hobbytrain locos really were made by Kato. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 19, 2019, 09:26:39 AM
……………..………...
Hmm  Swiss trains have definitely invaded Germany in these photos I've been posting   :D    I do love these old Hobbytrain units though.

That shot is Eurocity-grey-mouse-tastic! I remember travelling on a grey mouse from Zürich to Milan many moons ago. It had electrically operated blinds on each window, something I found very impressive!

I also thought the "Grey Mouse" was fantastic Matt. It was one of the first models that I bought when I started modelling the Swiss scene.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on January 19, 2019, 09:57:15 AM
Even though this is not my area or era (by any means) I’m following your trials and tribulations with interest.
One thing I’d add re catenary is that if you are as ham fisted as I am , any catenary and wires wouldn’t last 5 mins without being destroyed  by the “hand of god”. I have enough troubles with telegraph poles and signals (without any wires).
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on January 19, 2019, 10:30:50 AM
great models although the inter-car connectors on the earlier versions could be a bit temperamental. They were from the days when Hobbytrain locos really were made by Kato. :thumbsup:

I stripped and rebuilt both of my sets. A lot of the problems were actually down to the typical "clip-fit" nature of Kato chassis components, so I made sure the entire electrical path was properly soldered up. I also made some minor changes to the wiring scheme to allow the central power car to be fed from either half (they no longer require the entire set to be connected up).

I'm still contemplating fitting some sort of alternative micro connector plugs but that would require rather more drastic surgery and I'm reluctant to hack them about too much, especially as the TEE set is the very example which I remember lusting over in the display cabinet of our local little model shop in the late 80s (I bought it later on as a 2nd hand item).
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 19, 2019, 04:32:23 PM

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-190119162850.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73305)

The N Gauge Forum Service Van. There to oversee quality is kept to a high level! :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 19, 2019, 04:55:33 PM

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-190119165414.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73306)

The final phase of my layout will be to add lighting - I'll need to learn all the required skills - I just love the effect of low light on scenes like loco yards!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 25, 2019, 03:55:45 PM
These just came up on the DB Instagram, quite unique!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-250119155455.png) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73537)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-250119155516.png) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73538)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 26, 2019, 09:31:54 AM
It's the "Noah's Train" project where some of the more artistic graffiti artists are being encouraged to show their skills legally. This feature on the Railcolor website explains it in a bit more detail.

https://railcolornews.com/2019/01/24/eu-rail-freight-forward-eu-railfreight-operators-present-noahs-train/
 (https://railcolornews.com/2019/01/24/eu-rail-freight-forward-eu-railfreight-operators-present-noahs-train/)


It would certainly make a colourful model.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 26, 2019, 09:57:54 AM
It's the "Noah's Train" project where some of the more artistic graffiti artists are being encouraged to show their skills legally. This feature on the Railcolor website explains it in a bit more detail.

https://railcolornews.com/2019/01/24/eu-rail-freight-forward-eu-railfreight-operators-present-noahs-train/
 (https://railcolornews.com/2019/01/24/eu-rail-freight-forward-eu-railfreight-operators-present-noahs-train/)


It would certainly make a colourful model.

Ah interesting - yes it would indeed make a colourful model. I really like this concept from DB! 8)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 31, 2019, 11:04:16 AM
Soldering has commenced!

I think the last time I soldered would have been at school in 1996 or thereabouts!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-310119110154.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73722)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-310119110218.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73723)

They are quite short dropper wires which will be popped into suitcase connectors when I put the bus wire in.

I've used lead solder for maximum possible toxicity. And I managed to stab my finger with the knife used to wire-strip. And I burned my thumb wiping tarnish off the iron. Apart for that all seems ok. :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Gizzy on January 31, 2019, 11:21:54 AM
You seem to have left a lot of unsheathed wire there Globi? About 10mm of insulation?

I would have only stripped about 2-3 mm of insulation from the wire, tinned it, tinned the rail, then soldered it all together.

I would also have drilled the hole for the dropper wire as close to the rail as possible, between the sleepers if possible.

You really don't want to see hardly any wire/insulation.

I'm not trying to criticise; well done for giving soldering a go as I know many who wouldn't even attempt to do so....
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 31, 2019, 11:27:30 AM
Hi Matt. Good to see that work on the Globibahn is progressing well. I was beginning to get worried by the lack of updates.

"I've used lead solder for maximum possible toxicity. And I managed to stab my finger with the knife used to wire-strip. And I burned my thumb wiping tarnish off the iron. Apart for that all seems ok."




I still prefer the old stuff and as for the personal injuries...…….join the clan. :D :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 31, 2019, 11:30:42 AM
You seem to have left a lot of unsheathed wire there Globi? About 10mm of insulation?

I would have only stripped about 2-3 mm of insulation from the wire, tinned it, tinned the rail, then soldered it all together.

I would also have drilled the hole for the dropper wire as close to the rail as possible, between the sleepers if possible.

You really don't want to see hardly any wire/insulation.

I'm not trying to criticise; well done for giving soldering a go as I know many who wouldn't even attempt to do so....

Thanks for the tips, that's all useful! I can move the holes nearer the rails and hide more of that unsheathed wire....

Cheers
Matt :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on January 31, 2019, 11:38:16 AM
………...
I would also have drilled the hole for the dropper wire as close to the rail as possible, between the sleepers if possible.

You really don't want to see hardly any wire/insulation...…….

Yes, you should be able to reposition the holes closer to the point of soldering without too many problems and it will certainly look neater.


I'm not trying to criticise; well done for giving soldering a go as I know many who wouldn't even attempt to do so....


I couldn't agree more. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 31, 2019, 11:48:56 AM
Hi Matt. Good to see that work on the Globibahn is progressing well. I was beginning to get worried by the lack of updates.

Thanks John, yes work is still very much afoot on the Globibahn- however, I had a bit of a low point after frying the decoder in my newly aquired RTS diesel loco (I'm still waiting to hear back from the repair place). It was a silly thing, the loco derailed and stopped working, then I tinkered with it and applied power to the motor contact terminals with the decoder still plugged in :doh:. Very sensible.

Also the last quarter of my oval of double track doesn't quite true up, so I think I'm going to have to use some flex track to hide a few sins, luckily it's mostly under the tunnel (I am getting a bit tired of the track laying truth-be-told). Actually it will give me a chance to practice with flex track, something not yet attempted. The station siding is also going in. Once that's done I can work on a retaining wall and high ground at the back of the station, which will be more enjoyable for me! Oh yes, I'm also working on the buffer stop kits.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-310119114303.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73724)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-310119114329.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73725)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-310119114747.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73726)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 31, 2019, 11:50:07 AM

I couldn't agree more. :thumbsup:

Thank you!  :) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 31, 2019, 12:07:01 PM
Ok take 2 - holes moved between sleepers! :claphappy:


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-310119120650.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73728)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on January 31, 2019, 12:09:22 PM
Had to look twice for the holes! That looks so much better.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on January 31, 2019, 01:29:25 PM
Had to look twice for the holes! That looks so much better.  :thumbsup:

Cheers yes big improvement - I've also done a test setup with my suitcase connectors, pleased to say it all works ok! Phew!


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-310119132920.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73731)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 01, 2019, 01:30:57 PM
More wiring this morning.

1. wiring chaos on the layout  :D:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-010219132729.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73756)

2. wiring chaos under the layout:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-010219132804.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73757)

3. My 4 main feeder sites:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-010219132836.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73758)


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-010219132913.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73759)


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-010219132933.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73760)


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-010219132951.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73761)

I love the simplicity of the suitcase connectors, highly recommended! Also I have discovered I love soldering  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 01, 2019, 04:56:27 PM
Here's a question actually, for this size of layout should my + - bus wires be closed-off loops? At the moment they're just A to B, if you get what I mean. :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 01, 2019, 06:58:51 PM
Some folk say the bus should be open ended, but a lot of it is theoretical and based on the effects you *might* get on a really large layout like some of the american clubs have.  On your little layout it will make no difference at all, and remember you've created a loop with the actual rails anyway.

Your solder joints are looking much better than the originals, though you've still got the actual solder joint a sleeper or two further over from the hole so you end up with the red and black showing. Much less visible if you make the solder joint directly above the hole.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: grumbeast on February 01, 2019, 09:09:17 PM
looking good!  I'm rubbish at soldering but I know what you mean about it being quite fun

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 04, 2019, 03:04:25 PM
looking good!  I'm rubbish at soldering but I know what you mean about it being quite fun

Thank you! :)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 04, 2019, 03:05:24 PM
Some folk say the bus should be open ended, but a lot of it is theoretical and based on the effects you *might* get on a really large layout like some of the american clubs have.  On your little layout it will make no difference at all, and remember you've created a loop with the actual rails anyway.

Your solder joints are looking much better than the originals, though you've still got the actual solder joint a sleeper or two further over from the hole so you end up with the red and black showing. Much less visible if you make the solder joint directly above the hole.

Ok cool that makes life easier  :)

Lesson learned for next time, I'll see if I can hide the soldering even more!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 04, 2019, 03:14:10 PM
I have finally commenced work on another scenic element, which is the retaining wall behind the station. Just getting the skeletal structure worked out.

Track wiring is complete, however I've still got several connectors left over so I may actually power each of the sidings. Probabaly overkill, but I think I'll do it anyway.

Small detail; I've also replaced some ballast in patches where it had drawn up water-based marker pen ink from the cork below  :doh:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-040219151040.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73832)

I'm going to do the final corner of my track oval in flex track, as the curve pieces don't marry that smoothly and it bugs me.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on February 04, 2019, 05:15:34 PM
Looks good.
What will you be making that retaining wall out of please?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 04, 2019, 05:26:25 PM
Looks good.
What will you be making that retaining wall out of please?

Hi, I'm going to cut sections of grey card, then paint and weather to represent concrete. It's to fit in with the 1980s style station. I'll be having a few advertising billboards on there too, should have some fun doing the adverts! :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 04, 2019, 09:29:46 PM
Hi Matt. Personally I don't like the idea of using cardboard for such a large expanse of wall. I think you could get some warping especially if you use plaster bandage for the terrain behind the wall and the cardboard absorbs some of the moisture.
Having said that, I assume that part of your tunnel portals are cardboard (although only a small amount) and the concrete effect you have created looks really good. Could you possibly do any "wet work" first and then add the cardboard later just in case the larger amount of cardboard does distort? Some sort of framework behind the cardboard wouldn't go amiss either.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 05, 2019, 07:57:53 AM
Hi Matt. Personally I don't like the idea of using cardboard for such a large expanse of wall. I think you could get some warping especially if you use plaster bandage for the terrain behind the wall and the cardboard absorbs some of the moisture.
Having said that, I assume that part of your tunnel portals are cardboard (although only a small amount) and the concrete effect you have created looks really good. Could you possibly do any "wet work" first and then add the cardboard later just in case the larger amount of cardboard does distort? Some sort of framework behind the cardboard wouldn't go amiss either.

Thanks John, that had not occured to me at all - thanks for pointing it out! I'll put in a framework to prevent warping  :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 05, 2019, 03:46:07 PM
Some sort of framework behind the cardboard wouldn't go amiss either.

Okeycokey, here's the new solution! A section of Hornby OO track and fairly thick styrene supports glued with contact adhesive. I envisage gluing this all firmly in place to the baseboard, gluing the concrete slabs in front to the rails and building up any terrain/wet work behind, with a thin gap in between that can be filled as a final touch.  8)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-050219154123.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73857)



(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-050219154201.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73858)



(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-050219154227.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73859)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 05, 2019, 04:16:26 PM
That track certainly makes a good support for your retaining wall...….I hope you didn't have to buy it because if you did it might have been just as cheap to use the polystyrene sheet for the retaining wall and forget the cardboard. ???
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: port perran on February 05, 2019, 04:24:48 PM
Ingenious solution.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 05, 2019, 04:30:06 PM
That track certainly makes a good support for your retaining wall...….I hope you didn't have to buy it because if you did it might have been just as cheap to use the polystyrene sheet for the retaining wall and forget the cardboard. ???

Hi John, nope it was all stuff knocking about. The advantage of grey board is that it has a subtle texture, so although I agree styrene could be used, I think I'll stick with the board. We'll see what happens!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 05, 2019, 04:30:48 PM
Ingenious solution.

Thank you  :angel:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 05, 2019, 04:36:03 PM
Oh, quick question - what is the polarity of sidings? Is it the same as the adjacent track?  :hmmm: :confused2:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 05, 2019, 05:52:35 PM
Oh, quick question - what is the polarity of sidings? Is it the same as the adjacent track?  :hmmm: :confused2:

Think about it - at some point the rails in the sidings will join up to the main line, so the polarity has to match that :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 05, 2019, 05:58:51 PM
Oh, quick question - what is the polarity of sidings? Is it the same as the adjacent track?  :hmmm: :confused2:

Think about it - at some point the rails in the sidings will join up to the main line, so the polarity has to match that :D

Ah yes, when you put it like that, I see what you mean   ;D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 05, 2019, 08:56:46 PM
………….. The advantage of grey board is that it has a subtle texture,...…………………..

That's very true. There's something about the texture of card that lends itself to concrete structures especially when weathered.
Will you be using card for your station building?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 05, 2019, 09:50:09 PM
………….. The advantage of grey board is that it has a subtle texture,...…………………..

That's very true. There's something about the texture of card that lends itself to concrete structures especially when weathered.
Will you be using card for your station building?

It's funny you should raise that John. As it happens, I have bought the styrene to make the station (my original intention), however I'm probably going to use the grey board instead due to A)texture and B) the station is going to be a real focal point so there will probably be lots of tweaking/perfecting, which is easier with grey board methinks, as is stuff like window cutting. And it comes in longer lengths which is better for long slab-like roof sections. Er and it's basically free. :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 05, 2019, 09:56:18 PM
Deep-fried RTS Swieltsky diesel Lok update!

DCC Train Automation have got back to me. They have saved the day! The motor was malfunctioning (smoking) simply due to needing a deep clean. It's been stripped to bare bones, cleaned and oiled, put back together and amazingly the chip was fine due to Zimos having pretty good short protection. It's being posted back to me tomorrow so I can finally be reunited. :bounce:

I think for my next loco I may just take the plunge and buy new. Or if I buy second hand, I'll send it off to be serviced as a first action.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 06, 2019, 11:33:40 AM
Here's the general idea with the now hopefully warp-proof retaining wall:


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-060219113232.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73884)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-060219113249.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73885)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 06, 2019, 11:45:36 AM
Looks good to me Matt.
I'm sure that you can make a very convincing concrete wall with your artistic skills.
Your tunnel and now this feature is really starting to make it look like a real layout. Great work.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 06, 2019, 04:11:26 PM
Looks good to me Matt.
I'm sure that you can make a very convincing concrete wall with your artistic skills.
Your tunnel and now this feature is really starting to make it look like a real layout. Great work.

Thank you John, yes this addition should hopefully pull things together a bit more!

Matt  :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 07, 2019, 03:22:50 PM
Got my RTS loco back, hurrah! Nice to have the locos reunited at last.

I've been soldering again today, I've powered each siding with it's own supply. So I now have no less than 12 pairs of connectors feeding the track: 8 pairs on the main lines and 4 pairs on the sidings. Everything running very smoothly on the Globibahn.

I've also assembled my buffer kits - I've sprayed them with base coat, they just need weathering.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-070219152146.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73916)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-070219152202.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73917)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 08, 2019, 09:08:26 PM
As mentioned previously, the final corner of my oval is now to be flex track, so I can hide a few small misalignment issues. I've found soldering the flex track to the conventional track a little troublesome. I found it not very easy at all to get the solder to bond to the joiner as well as both ends of the rails to be joined and was only partially succesful in doing so. 3 of the 4 joints held ok but one of the joints did spring open again which was a nuisance.  :hmmm: Anyway overall it's been good enough for the purpose of gluing the track down, but not as good as I hoped.  :hmmm:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-080219210442.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73965)

Obviously, when I do my 'grown up' layout one day I'll need to become a master of flex track.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 08, 2019, 09:26:39 PM
Any particular reason why you soldered the track together Matt?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 08, 2019, 09:48:53 PM
Any particular reason why you soldered the track together Matt?

Hi John, just because I find the flex track a bit liable to pop out of the joiners when bending it. Thought it would make it easier if it was more strongly joined (i.e. by soldering).

I know that you have to solder flex track if you're bending a large arc (i.e. of 2 pieces), so I though the same may apply here, even though my corner is shorter than 1 length of flex track.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 08, 2019, 10:06:12 PM
Shouldn't be necessary to solder the joints just to keep them in place.  Pre-bend the track to the required curve, if one rail particularly wants to extend then mark and cut that to length before you lay the track.  Use map pins or similar to hold the track roughly in the shape of the curve while you work and while you join the two sections.

If you feel you must solder the joints, make sure you clean the rail ends first.  Make sure the iron is touching and heating the joiner and the rails at the same time -  apply a little solder to the bit so that it melts and contacts the parts allowing the heat to flow.    Presumably you're using electrical solder with a flux core, that should be sufficient but you can try a tiny amount of additional flux if it helps.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 09, 2019, 07:46:52 AM

If you feel you must solder the joints, make sure you clean the rail ends first.  Make sure the iron is touching and heating the joiner and the rails at the same time -  apply a little solder to the bit so that it melts and contacts the parts allowing the heat to flow.    Presumably you're using electrical solder with a flux core, that should be sufficient but you can try a tiny amount of additional flux if it helps.

Cheers Nick  :thumbsup: Yes I've got some really suitable flux/solder etc. If I ever need to do it again I'll follow your tips! Otherwise I'll just avoid doing it like you say.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 09, 2019, 07:49:49 AM
Here's an unusual new problem. The flex track has gone in very well and I'm pleased with it. However this corner of my track no longer goes 'clickety clack' like the others which are made from curved sections. This is sort of noticeable to me. Should I just live with it, or should I use a razor blade to cut small incisions in the tops of the rails to match the rest of the corners of my oval? Would that damage train wheels in any way?  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 09, 2019, 09:16:02 AM
Hi Matt. If it is really bugging you I see no reason why you shouldn't make small cuts in the railhead as you suggest. Make sure that there are no burrs on the running surface of the rails and it will be no different than any other joints.
To make your layout more realistic you could do away with the clickety-clack altogether and create continuously welded rails by soldering ALL your joints...........No, No, this is a joke, forget I said it!!!! :sorrysign:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 09, 2019, 09:34:33 AM
Hi Matt. If it is really bugging you I see no reason why you shouldn't make small cuts in the railhead as you suggest. Make sure that there are no burrs on the running surface of the rails and it will be no different than any other joints.
To make your layout more realistic you could do away with the clickety-clack altogether and create continuously welded rails by soldering ALL your joints...........No, No, this is a joke, forget I said it!!!! :sorrysign:

Cheers John, I think I'll leave it for now and maybe do it later if I still notice it!

In addition to your other suggestion, I could build up concrete molds around all the joints in my layout, fill them with sand and then pour in molten red hot solder. When it sets I'll hack off the paritally molten sand and then angle grind each join down to smooth..... should come up lovely! :laughabovepost:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 09, 2019, 09:50:54 AM

Cheers John, I think I'll leave it for now and maybe do it later if I still notice it!

In addition to your other suggestion, I could build up concrete molds around all the joints in my layout, fill them with sand and then pour in molten red hot solder. When it sets I'll hack off the paritally molten sand and then angle grind each join down to smooth..... should come up lovely! :laughabovepost:

Two things. Try not to melt your sleepers and be careful with that angle grinder. The sparks will ruin your carpet :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 09, 2019, 10:25:32 AM
Some people who enjoy the clickety-clack have certainly gone for cutting fine slots in the rail head of flexi track. I think I'd be concerned it creates another dirt trap though.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 09, 2019, 10:35:29 AM
Some people who enjoy the clickety-clack have certainly gone for cutting fine slots in the rail head of flexi track. I think I'd be concerned it creates another dirt trap though.
I agree Nick but when your layout is predominantly sectional track a few more “joints” aren’t going to make much difference.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 09, 2019, 10:47:14 AM

Two things. Try not to melt your sleepers and be careful with that angle grinder. The sparks will ruin your carpet :D

Lol   :D  :smiley-laughing: the carpet's already got paint stains etc.!!!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 09, 2019, 10:47:59 AM
Some people who enjoy the clickety-clack have certainly gone for cutting fine slots in the rail head of flexi track. I think I'd be concerned it creates another dirt trap though.

That's good to know that it's do-able, cheers Nick! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 09, 2019, 10:48:39 AM
I agree Nick but when your layout is predominantly sectional track a few more “joints” aren’t going to make much difference.

Yes, agreed.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 09, 2019, 11:00:28 AM
This Rietze Citaro Post Coach was a bargain on Ebay. The Rietze Audi cars were randomly only £4 each on Amazon, rather pleased with this haul!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-090219105819.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73972)

I've also made my controller look a bit tidier and given it a docking station (well, it's just a screw actually, but that doesn't sound so impressive!).

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-090219105901.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73973)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 09, 2019, 11:21:53 AM
This Rietze Citaro Post Coach was a bargain on Ebay. The Rietze Audi cars were randomly only £4 each on Amazon, rather pleased with this haul!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-090219105819.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73972)
Nice. :thumbsup: And if you can find a neat way of making the Postauto bellows operable please let me know ;)
I've also made my controller look a bit tidier and given it a docking station (well, it's just a screw actually, but that doesn't sound so impressive!).

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/7020-090219105901.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=73973)


Yes, always a good idea to keep these things safely stored when not in use.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 09, 2019, 02:35:19 PM

Nice. :thumbsup: And if you can find a neat way of making the Postauto bellows operable please let me know ;)


Thanks!

I'll just snap it clean in half and re-glue at 90 degrees. Job done! :D Or only have dead straight roads on the layout..... :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Gizzy on February 11, 2019, 08:38:50 AM
Some people who enjoy the clickety-clack have certainly gone for cutting fine slots in the rail head of flexi track. I think I'd be concerned it creates another dirt trap though.
There was a OO London Underground layout from a modeller in Great Yarmouth doing the exhibition circuit in East Anglia a few years ago?

It had slots cut in the rail head to replicate the 'clickity-clack', and it worked well and sounded very good....
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 11, 2019, 02:57:58 PM
To make a change from my day to day work on the layout (glue track down - scratch head - lift track up again - glue track down - scratch head etc. etc. ) I have done some actual scenic modelling!

The little junk pile is kit-bashed from a free HO concrete mixer plast kit which came on the front of CM a couple of months ago!:D

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-110219145647.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74037)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-110219145703.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74038)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-110219145726.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74039)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 11, 2019, 04:42:49 PM
Does anybody know of a good 1:160 modern dumper truck for gravel loads?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: daffy on February 11, 2019, 05:02:19 PM
A few possibilities here:

https://www.en.dm-toys.de/liste/tags_en/baufahrzeug_en.html (https://www.en.dm-toys.de/liste/tags_en/baufahrzeug_en.html)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 11, 2019, 05:06:51 PM
A few possibilities here:

https://www.en.dm-toys.de/liste/tags_en/baufahrzeug_en.html (https://www.en.dm-toys.de/liste/tags_en/baufahrzeug_en.html)

Genius, thanks Daffy!  :thumbsup:   :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: daffy on February 11, 2019, 05:25:47 PM
As my 6 year old grand-daughter has been saying for over three years now...

You’re welcome. :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: mika on February 11, 2019, 07:21:40 PM
Scenery is looking good. It's always amazing how it helps a layout to come alive. Well done.

Cheers
Michael
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 11, 2019, 09:30:56 PM
I love the bushes and the undergrowth Matt. Really convincing. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 11, 2019, 10:10:16 PM
I love the bushes and the undergrowth Matt. Really convincing. :thumbsup:

Cheers John and Michael, glad you find it effective!  :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 11, 2019, 10:47:04 PM
If I wanted a few functional Viessman lattice mast lights/ platform lights etc. what do I need in addition to the lights themselves to make them work?  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 12, 2019, 07:46:58 AM
Er... a power supply?   :D     These things are typically designed for around 15V, lights will usually work on AC or DC but check the instructions of whatever you buy.   If you're going to run several lights then make sure your power supply can handle the total current draw.

I'd advise running a separate supply and power bus for lights - don't waste the DCC track power.

I often find the lights look better on a slightly lower voltage, so if you have an old DC controller you could use that with the voltage adjusted to how you like it? 

https://viessmann-modell.com/media/pdf/5a/57/84/6463Rlrw4LYNygGgp.pdf (https://viessmann-modell.com/media/pdf/5a/57/84/6463Rlrw4LYNygGgp.pdf)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 12, 2019, 08:09:48 AM
Er... a power supply?   :D     


Hey Nick,

I've got a basic Gaugemaster analogue track controller, would that do the trick? I figured I would have a seperate power bus, that will be simple enough. I can have different coloured wires - hurrah!

I just got a bit confused because I saw all the expensive modules and whatnot on the Viessmann website. Glad they won'tt be required.

Cheers for the instructions, that is most interesting!

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 12, 2019, 08:12:47 AM
Hmm what's this about a resistor? Will I need to have one - I guess I just solder it inline?

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-120219081238.png) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74074)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 12, 2019, 08:49:53 AM
Hmm what's this about a resistor? Will I need to have one - I guess I just solder it inline?

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-120219081238.png) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74074)

Should come with the resistor already fitted, as it's sold with instructions for 14-16V
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 12, 2019, 08:53:15 AM
I've got a basic Gaugemaster analogue track controller, would that do the trick?

Yes will do the job fine up to about 1 amp probably.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 12, 2019, 09:06:45 AM

Should come with the resistor already fitted, as it's sold with instructions for 14-16V

Great thanks Nick, I'm excited now!  :claphappy:

Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on February 12, 2019, 11:28:32 AM
All my lights and other such accessories are powered by a separate 12v supply.  I have 4 power supplies in total, so the lights etc are split between the four supplies. Some of the lights I have bought are designed for 12v whilst others are 3v and they come with resistors already wired in, or separate resistors that I have to solder in place.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 12, 2019, 12:01:13 PM
All my lights and other such accessories are powered by a separate 12v supply.  I have 4 power supplies in total, so the lights etc are split between the four supplies. Some of the lights I have bought are designed for 12v whilst others are 3v and they come with resistors already wired in, or separate resistors that I have to solder in place.

Great that's useful. I've ordered my first light, so ooking forward to having a tinker with it!

Cheers muchly
Matt
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on February 12, 2019, 12:13:01 PM
One thing to remember Matt - do not put 12v through a 3v light without a resistor in place. You get an intense bright light and then ...... nothing!  :-[
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 12, 2019, 12:23:07 PM
One thing to remember Matt - do not put 12v through a 3v light without a resistor in place. You get an intense bright light and then ...... nothing!  :-[


Yes, I'll be sure to check. This is the light, so when it comes I'll see if a resistor is already in place on the wire.

https://viessmann-modell.com/sortiment/spur-n/leuchten/1639/n-gittermastleuchte?c=110 (https://viessmann-modell.com/sortiment/spur-n/leuchten/1639/n-gittermastleuchte?c=110)

And this is my controller from GM I plan to use:

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GMC-COMBI&style=&strType=&Mcode=Gaugemaster+GMC%2DCOMBI (http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GMC-COMBI&style=&strType=&Mcode=Gaugemaster+GMC%2DCOMBI)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on February 12, 2019, 12:31:44 PM
Just had a look at the downloadable instructions https://viessmann-modell.com/media/pdf/5a/57/84/6463Rlrw4LYNygGgp.pdf it does mention the resistor and states that the operating voltage is 10 to 16v AC/DC, so there should be no problem.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 12, 2019, 12:37:37 PM
Just had a look at the downloadable instructions https://viessmann-modell.com/media/pdf/5a/57/84/6463Rlrw4LYNygGgp.pdf it does mention the resistor and states that the operating voltage is 10 to 16v AC/DC, so there should be no problem.  :thumbsup:

Brilliant that's kind, thank you for checking for me!  :thumbsup: :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: RicardoFig on February 12, 2019, 12:56:07 PM
Just to give a thumbs up regarding the scenery!

The "junk pile" is a very nice looking touch.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 12, 2019, 02:28:12 PM
The instructions which came with this black box are about as much use as chocolate tea pot! Can anyone shed light on how I'm supposed to plug the point motor in? Also I take it I should add wires to the end contacts to my power bus using the supplied plugs. Does it matter which way around is positive and negative?


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-120219142715.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74088)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-120219142734.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74089)



(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-120219142753.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74090)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 12, 2019, 03:12:34 PM
Just to give a thumbs up regarding the scenery!

The "junk pile" is a very nice looking touch.  :thumbsup:

Thank you - yes I'm pleased with that junk pile!  :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 12, 2019, 06:19:14 PM
Can anyone shed light on how I'm supposed to plug the point motor in?

The pdf seems reasonably simple and clarifies the meaning of the "+", common and "-" of each output.
https://www.roco.cc/uploads/documents/pdf/10775.pdf (https://www.roco.cc/uploads/documents/pdf/10775.pdf)

Looks like it comes with plugs for you to assemble?  I found this little diagram on how to assemble the plugs:
Strip 15mm of wire, push into the plug and fold the ends over underneath, fit the cover.
You'll need to check your Fleischmann motor instructions to ascertain which wires are Left, Common, and Right

(https://images.beneluxspoor.net/bnls/stekkertjes__roco_2.jpg)

Quote
Also I take it I should add wires to the end contacts to my power bus using the supplied plugs. Does it matter which way around is positive and negative?
Connects to the DCC power bus I presume?  If so there is no positive/negative distinction, it's a square wave AC. Won't matter which wire connects to which side of the plug.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 12, 2019, 06:44:23 PM

The pdf seems reasonably simple and clarifies the meaning of the "+", common and "-" of each output.

Looks like it comes with plugs for you to assemble?  I found this little diagram on how to assemble the plugs:
Strip 15mm of wire, push into the plug and fold the ends over underneath, fit the cover.
You'll need to check your Fleischmann motor instructions to ascertain which wires are Left, Common, and Right

Connects to the DCC power bus I presume?  If so there is no positive/negative distinction, it's a square wave AC. Won't matter which wire connects to which side of the plug.

Aha thank you Nick that's most helpful. Yes there is a pack of those little plugs supplied! I'm sure it has to connect to the DCC power bus, as it's MultiMaus operated.

Cheers  :beers:
Matt

P.s Should I chop the existing plug off the point in that case? Or should I make a female/female adapter by connecting two female plugs with three short wires.  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 12, 2019, 07:01:33 PM
Should I chop the existing plug off the point in that case? Or should I make a female/female adapter by connecting two female plugs with three short wires.  :hmmm:


Well something will have to give! I'd chop the plugs off the point motor wires. Save them in your bits box just in case.  When you strip the wires, if they're multi-strand then I'd suggest a little solder to bond then together as one core, it will be easier to fit the Roco plug.

I saw another photo where someone had soldered wires directly to the 10775 outputs and created screw terminal blocks, if that makes things easier for your wiring (for example to swap left and right if you get it wrong!)
(https://images.beneluxspoor.net/bnls/Web_IMGP5554.jpg)
http://forum.beneluxspoor.eu/index.php?topic=11999.15 (http://forum.beneluxspoor.eu/index.php?topic=11999.15)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 12, 2019, 07:04:55 PM
Should I chop the existing plug off the point in that case? Or should I make a female/female adapter by connecting two female plugs with three short wires.  :hmmm:


Well something will have to give! I'd chop the plugs off the point motor wires. Save them in your bits box just in case.  When you strip the wires, if they're multi-strand then I'd suggest a little solder to bond then together as one core, it will be easier to fit the Roco plug.

I saw another photo where someone had soldered wires directly to the 10775 outputs and created screw terminal blocks, if that makes things easier for your wiring (for example to swap left and right if you get it wrong!)
([url]https://images.beneluxspoor.net/bnls/Web_IMGP5554.jpg[/url])
[url]http://forum.beneluxspoor.eu/index.php?topic=11999.15[/url] ([url]http://forum.beneluxspoor.eu/index.php?topic=11999.15[/url])


Ok cool will have a ponder. Crikey that photo looks like something taken off the Borg queen in Star Trek!!! :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 13, 2019, 09:13:07 AM
Here's the whole layout as it stands this morning!


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-130219091014.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74102)


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-130219091032.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74103)

I ws able to have a really satisfying running session last night, all appears to be working smoothly. :claphappy:

I like to-do lists but haven't done one for the layout since December, so I've been good and done a new one:  :angel:


Electronics
•   Install lighting power bus
•   Install first lattice mast lamp
•   Finalise placement for other mast lamps
•   Signal box interior lighting
•   Wire-in Roco digital turnout controller and install under baseboard

Scenics
•   Complete rear bank with retaining wall
•   Smooth plaster remaining scenic areas
•   Add in station road
•   Level crossing for station main road
•   Utility level crossing for goods yard
•   Work on catenary (soldered)
•   Dummy signals (kit?)
•   Set down abandoned siding in SW corner
•   Create agricultural field with track in SW corner
•   Design advert billboards for retaining wall
•   Paint figures and position

Buildings
•   Make final version of station (with interior lighting)
•   Put in finalised platforms in order to complete ballasting
•   Weather signal box

Other
•   Make tea cup holder by operating position
•   Mount Multimaus black box under baseboard





Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 13, 2019, 09:47:22 AM

…..Dummy signals (kit?)



I assume that you have seen these Matt?

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html (https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 13, 2019, 09:51:53 AM

…..Dummy signals (kit?)



I assume that you have seen these Matt?

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html (https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html)

Hi John, yes I know about those, they're exactly what I'll go for. :thumbsup: Working out where to position them will be tricky though, as I know zero about signalling!  :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 13, 2019, 10:19:22 AM

…..Dummy signals (kit?)



I assume that you have seen these Matt?

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html (https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html)

Hi John, yes I know about those, they're exactly what I'll go for. :thumbsup: Working out where to position them will be tricky though, as I know zero about signalling!  :D
I'm sure we can help you with that. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 13, 2019, 11:08:41 AM

…..Dummy signals (kit?)



I assume that you have seen these Matt?

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html (https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html)

Hi John, yes I know about those, they're exactly what I'll go for. :thumbsup: Working out where to position them will be tricky though, as I know zero about signalling!  :D
I'm sure we can help you with that. :thumbsup:

Brilliant yes please. I'll let you know when I have them  :) :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: mika on February 13, 2019, 11:20:24 AM
•   Make tea cup holder by operating position

I like that one. Very important :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 13, 2019, 09:18:17 PM
•   Make tea cup holder by operating position

I like that one. Very important :D

Ha ha yes should be top of the list!!!! :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: carlmt on February 13, 2019, 10:55:17 PM

…..Dummy signals (kit?)




I assume that you have seen these Matt?

[url]https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html[/url] ([url]https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html[/url])


Hi John, yes I know about those, they're exactly what I'll go for. :thumbsup: Working out where to position them will be tricky though, as I know zero about signalling!  :D


I have found this web page very helpful in this regard :

http://www.sh1.org/eisenbahn/rups.htm (http://www.sh1.org/eisenbahn/rups.htm)

Hope it helps you?
Cheers
Carl
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 14, 2019, 07:26:04 AM

…..Dummy signals (kit?)




I assume that you have seen these Matt?

[url]https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html[/url] ([url]https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html[/url])


Hi John, yes I know about those, they're exactly what I'll go for. :thumbsup: Working out where to position them will be tricky though, as I know zero about signalling!  :D


I have found this web page very helpful in this regard :

[url]http://www.sh1.org/eisenbahn/rups.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.sh1.org/eisenbahn/rups.htm[/url])

Hope it helps you?
Cheers
Carl


Thanks Carl that's helpful! Pity there is no illustrated guide though for newbies such as me.  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 14, 2019, 09:04:49 AM
Should I chop the existing plug off the point in that case? Or should I make a female/female adapter by connecting two female plugs with three short wires.  :hmmm:


Well something will have to give! I'd chop the plugs off the point motor wires. Save them in your bits box just in case.  When you strip the wires, if they're multi-strand then I'd suggest a little solder to bond then together as one core, it will be easier to fit the Roco plug.

I saw another photo where someone had soldered wires directly to the 10775 outputs and created screw terminal blocks, if that makes things easier for your wiring (for example to swap left and right if you get it wrong!)
([url]https://images.beneluxspoor.net/bnls/Web_IMGP5554.jpg[/url])
[url]http://forum.beneluxspoor.eu/index.php?topic=11999.15[/url] ([url]http://forum.beneluxspoor.eu/index.php?topic=11999.15[/url])


Holy guaccomole it works - amazing!!!!!!!! :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 14, 2019, 09:41:57 AM
Ok so the points controller is wired up and working-ish.

Only issue is that about every 10th throw the point makes a bit of a weird shaky buzz and sits in half open/half closed. And the multimaus indicates it is opened when it is closed. I'm wondering if the problem is worse with a loco on the track but need to test more.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-140219093949.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74133)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-140219094104.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74134)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 14, 2019, 09:49:54 AM
Don't you have to go through some sort of programming routine to get the points to respond correctly? Or have you already done this?
https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/roco-10775-accessory-decoder-1084-c.asp (https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/roco-10775-accessory-decoder-1084-c.asp)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on February 14, 2019, 09:50:56 AM
Also on the multimaus it's indicating the point is open when it's closed and vice versa.



That statement certainly implies that it is wired the wrong way round, but I know nothing about that piece of equipment. I am sure someone does and will be able to give the correct information. Knowing how knowledgeable some people on the forum are, you should not have to wait too long.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: carlmt on February 14, 2019, 10:00:45 AM

…..Dummy signals (kit?)




I assume that you have seen these Matt?

[url]https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html[/url] ([url]https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Busch/44-2-0-29069-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html[/url])


Hi John, yes I know about those, they're exactly what I'll go for. :thumbsup: Working out where to position them will be tricky though, as I know zero about signalling!  :D


I have found this web page very helpful in this regard :

[url]http://www.sh1.org/eisenbahn/rups.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.sh1.org/eisenbahn/rups.htm[/url])

Hope it helps you?
Cheers
Carl


Thanks Carl that's helpful! Pity there is no illustrated guide though for newbies such as me.  :hmmm:


Will this help?
Cheers
Carl

http://www.joernpachl.de/German_principles.htm (http://www.joernpachl.de/German_principles.htm)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 14, 2019, 01:56:49 PM
Will this help?
Cheers
Carl

[url]http://www.joernpachl.de/German_principles.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.joernpachl.de/German_principles.htm[/url])


Thanks Carl, yes that will!  :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 14, 2019, 01:58:06 PM
Quick question, can I just solder wires onto the ends of these wires, so I can connect down to the power bus with clip connectors?

Ta
Matt


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-140219135759.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74137)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Gizzy on February 14, 2019, 02:05:53 PM
Quick question, can I just solder wires onto the ends of these wires, so I can connect down to the power bus with clip connectors?

Ta
Matt


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-140219135759.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74137)

I would sleeve the resistor and exposed wiring beforehand....
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 14, 2019, 04:18:03 PM
Don't you have to go through some sort of programming routine to get the points to respond correctly? Or have you already done this?
https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/roco-10775-accessory-decoder-1084-c.asp (https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/roco-10775-accessory-decoder-1084-c.asp)

Hi John, yes I did do that procedure. All seems fine now, I think I was getting over excited and clicking it fore and back too quickly for fun!

It still reads the wrong way round on the controller though - I swapped the red and green (outer) wires but that stopped it working.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 14, 2019, 06:49:01 PM
Quick question, can I just solder wires onto the ends of these wires, so I can connect down to the power bus with clip connectors?

You could.   However I usually connect the wires from lights and signals etc. to choc-blocks and then extend from there to the power bus or main board distribution strip.  That way it's easy to remove and replace the light if necessary in the future, or even just temporarily remove while you finish off scenery etc.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 14, 2019, 08:38:51 PM
Quick question, can I just solder wires onto the ends of these wires, so I can connect down to the power bus with clip connectors?

You could.   However I usually connect the wires from lights and signals etc. to choc-blocks and then extend from there to the power bus or main board distribution strip.  That way it's easy to remove and replace the light if necessary in the future, or even just temporarily remove while you finish off scenery etc.

I think I'll follow your lead on this. I'll need to collect the lights over a period of time as they sure ain't cheap - and will therefore need to move them about now and again. Can I connect that piece of solid core the resistor is on into a chock block?

Cheers
Matt

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 14, 2019, 08:51:08 PM
Can I connect that piece of solid core the resistor is on into a chock block?
Of course you can, I do it all time. Just shorten it down a it so you haven't got bare wire showing.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 14, 2019, 09:02:59 PM
Don't you have to go through some sort of programming routine to get the points to respond correctly? Or have you already done this?
https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/roco-10775-accessory-decoder-1084-c.asp (https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/roco-10775-accessory-decoder-1084-c.asp)

Hi John, yes I did do that procedure. All seems fine now, I think I was getting over excited and clicking it fore and back too quickly for fun!

It still reads the wrong way round on the controller though - I swapped the red and green (outer) wires but that stopped it working.
Good to see that your points are now working OK Matt. :thumbsup:
I can't imagine trying to control the points on my layout using the DCC handset. I would end up in a right pickle. :confused1:  Although I regularly switch my layout to DCC for loco control I am "old school" control panel and switches when it comes to points and signals.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 14, 2019, 09:11:51 PM
It still reads the wrong way round on the controller though - I swapped the red and green (outer) wires but that stopped it working.

That shouldn't stop the motor working, there are no diodes in a Fleischmann point motor AFAIK, it works on AC or DC.  A wire not fitted properly in the plug perhaps?  Did it work again when you swapped back?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 14, 2019, 09:16:48 PM
It still reads the wrong way round on the controller though - I swapped the red and green (outer) wires but that stopped it working.

That shouldn't stop the motor working, there are no diodes in a Fleischmann point motor AFAIK, it works on AC or DC.  A wire not fitted properly in the plug perhaps?  Did it work again when you swapped back?

Yes the point is fully working through the MultiMaus. I would say though that every 15th time I operate it remotely, it makes a weird buzz and only switches half way, not sure what's causing that, as the mechanism works perfectly by hand and there's no intrusion of any material from the ballasting work (it's one of the laast points I installed).

Oh and it still is reading back to front on the Multimaus, though that's not a major issue.

I could try simply wiring the plug again if this persists.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 14, 2019, 09:17:43 PM
Can I connect that piece of solid core the resistor is on into a chock block?
Of course you can, I do it all time. Just shorten it down a it so you haven't got bare wire showing.

Fab, will do!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 14, 2019, 09:21:23 PM
Don't you have to go through some sort of programming routine to get the points to respond correctly? Or have you already done this?
https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/roco-10775-accessory-decoder-1084-c.asp (https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/roco-10775-accessory-decoder-1084-c.asp)

Hi John, yes I did do that procedure. All seems fine now, I think I was getting over excited and clicking it fore and back too quickly for fun!

It still reads the wrong way round on the controller though - I swapped the red and green (outer) wires but that stopped it working.
Good to see that your points are now working OK Matt. :thumbsup:
I can't imagine trying to control the points on my layout using the DCC handset. I would end up in a right pickle. :confused1:  Although I regularly switch my layout to DCC for loco control I am "old school" control panel and switches when it comes to points and signals.

Yes I'm actually only going to use it for the one point (as it's out of reach), as it would make life unnecessarily complicated to make my other points DCC - they are all within arm's reach of my seating place. Much quicker to just reach and switch! And I agree if it were a bigger layout I would prefer a control panel such as you have!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 15, 2019, 07:41:47 AM
Although I regularly switch my layout to DCC for loco control I am "old school" control panel and switches when it comes to points and signals.

Having said that it will probably be good fun to operate the DCC points whilst listening to 'Computer World' by Kraftwerk....  :D


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-150219074135.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74149)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on February 15, 2019, 08:44:32 AM
Some brilliant music from Kraftwerk -  I have a lot of their music.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 15, 2019, 08:57:24 AM
Some brilliant music from Kraftwerk -  I have a lot of their music.  :thumbsup:

Totally agree.

Especially having a track entitled Trans Europe Express!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 15, 2019, 10:19:51 AM
Here's the station access road/bus turnaround going in...

I've used thin foam sheet to make the road. The turnaround is one-way and there will be lines painted for bus parking directly adjacent to the station (where the Postauto is sitting). I'll also add a lay by for taxis jutting into the island.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-150219101915.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74153)


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-150219101941.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74154)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: grumbeast on February 15, 2019, 05:37:05 PM

Totally agree.

Especially having a track entitled Trans Europe Express!  :thumbsup:

Absolutely!  you need to have an old TEE for your layout if only to run just when your listening!.. its out of era I know but you know you just have to, a VT11.5 maybe.. I have an old Roco one, but I think Fleischmann do a more recent one :) .. or actually being more serious, some of the TEE routes were quite short consists (Loco + 3) so would work well on your layout
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: carlmt on February 15, 2019, 07:06:03 PM
A run of a TEE set - especially a Rheingold set - is not necessarily out of era today.

There is a group near Koln that run regular specials using either the 1926 set or the 1961 set - or even a mix of both!  Motive power is always classic as well (V200, E10.....)

Carl
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 15, 2019, 08:49:06 PM

Totally agree.

Especially having a track entitled Trans Europe Express!  :thumbsup:

Absolutely!  you need to have an old TEE for your layout if only to run just when your listening!.. its out of era I know but you know you just have to, a VT11.5 maybe.. I have an old Roco one, but I think Fleischmann do a more recent one :) .. or actually being more serious, some of the TEE routes were quite short consists (Loco + 3) so would work well on your layout

For sure, that's a great idea. An SBB Graue Maus-type (but in original red/cream livery) TEE would also be an option! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 15, 2019, 08:54:46 PM
An SBB Graue Maus-type (but in original red/cream livery) TEE would also be an option! :thumbsup:

Why not have both?   :D  :D  :D
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/5885-150219205341.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74169)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 15, 2019, 09:27:54 PM
An SBB Graue Maus-type (but in original red/cream livery) TEE would also be an option! :thumbsup:

Why not have both?   :D  :D  :D
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/5885-150219205341.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74169)

Tsk tsk Nick, in grey it's a Eurocity, not a TEE!  :D :laughabovepost:

P.s. I love both colour schemes  ;)
P.p.s. actually I think it only became a Eurocity towards the end of it's career, it may still have been TEE when first painted grey. I'll have to ask Kraftwerk, they would probably know  :D
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: grumbeast on February 16, 2019, 12:13:35 AM

Why not have both?   :D  :D  :D
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/5885-150219205341.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74169)


I am significantly and appreciatively envious! :) :)

TEE livery is my fave though
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 16, 2019, 08:45:24 AM
Yet more questions I'm afraid!

This is a reminder of how my layout is set up, resting on two 'trolleys' so-to-speak, aligned with alignment struts.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-160219084258.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74176)

At the moment, I've just run the power bus straight across the alignment struts. However this now means I can no longer lift the top off for transportation, without first cutting the power bus lines.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-160219084324.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74177)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-160219085131.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74178)

So, should I cut the power bus at the 4 points indicated with X's, tin the wire ends and install chocolate block connectors, in anticpation of future needs to move the layout? The other option I thought of was some sort of banana plugs.

I would anticipate needing to use this function approx. once per year.  :hmmm:

P.s. these look quite interesting, will they be secure enough as connectors?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Terminal-Blocks/DWE-Connectors-Electrical-Connector-Connecting/B076Q5RL4J/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1550307988&sr=8-3&keywords=wire+connector (https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Terminal-Blocks/DWE-Connectors-Electrical-Connector-Connecting/B076Q5RL4J/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1550307988&sr=8-3&keywords=wire+connector)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 16, 2019, 09:23:00 AM
Hi Matt. You should have cut small "V" s in the top of your wooden supports and drilled holes in the battens for the wires. It would be much tidier. The board would then have been totally separate.
Surely it's not too late to modify it now?
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 16, 2019, 09:31:27 AM
Hi Matt. You should have cut small "V" s in the top of your wooden supports for the wires. Surely it's not too late to modify it now?

Oh yes, so I should! :-[

Well I could drill holes through. However there is quite a lot of give where the trolley tops line up, so they would have to be quite big holes or I'll be fishing around for hours feeding the wires through. :hmmm:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 16, 2019, 09:45:51 AM
Hi Matt. I think you replied while I was editing my post.
Can you disconnect the wiring to enable you to remove the board from the legs? Before you actually remove the board mark the points where you want the wires to go. The strengthening battens can then be drilled as close to the underside of the board as you can and "V" notches can be cut in the trolley pieces to correspond with them. Leave some slack in the wiring to allow for slight movement between the two. You won't need to drill very big holes for the amount of wiring you are likely to have even allowing for more "gadgets" and there shouldn't be any problems feeding them through.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 16, 2019, 09:50:18 AM
Do you really need to bridge the bus at all four places? Your layout is only small, I'd argue a single pair of connectors to link the bus in one place is perfectly good enough.

Choc-blocks would be an easy starting point but fiddly. 

Banana plugs and sockets are a more convenient yet still simple option, you won't have to fiddle underneath with a screwdriver.

A single multi-way plug and socket is even more convenient, as long as the contacts are rated for enough current.   Bear in mind you will eventually be running more than just a DCC bus, you'll also have a "lighting bus" (at least) and possibly other connections for bits and pieces.

I use D-Sub connectors for neatness but with DC I'm not loading any wiring with more than one or two locos.  N-Club International (whose modular standards I now adhere to) used to specify D-Subs for their 6 main bus wires but have now changed to banana plugs.

Here's one of my "adapter-to-adapter" adapters  :D  which converts from D-Sub 15 (which I chose to use internally on my modular boards) to D-Sub 37 (NCI's old standard) to bananas.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/5885-160219094307.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74179)



An alternative approach could be to have a "star-wired"  style rather than a "daisy-chain". In other words, your DCC system connects to a central distribution panel and from there a cable and a connector takes the bus(es) to each board.  It might be overkill in your case, but I prefer this approach as I have several baseboards and it means I can power up and test/work on one board in isolation if necessary.

Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 16, 2019, 10:00:42 AM
Hi Matt. I think you replied while I was editing my post.
Can you disconnect the wiring to enable you to remove the board from the legs? Before you actually remove the board mark the points where you want the wires to go. The strengthening battens can then be drilled as close to the underside of the board as you can and "V" notches can be cut in the trolley pieces to correspond with them. Leave some slack in the wiring to allow for slight movement between the two. You won't need to drill very big holes for the amount of wiring you are likely to have even allowing for more "gadgets" and there shouldn't be any problems feeding them through.

Ohhhhhhhhhh I see what you mean! Yes that's a jolly good idea. I just have to have a head scratch about undoing some of my wiring.

I didn't do it that way before because I never thought of the V notch concept.

I think this is what Baldrick would refer to as a 'cunning plan'!
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 16, 2019, 10:02:15 AM
Do you really need to bridge the bus at all four places? Your layout is only small, I'd argue a single pair of connectors to link the bus in one place is perfectly good enough.

Choc-blocks would be an easy starting point but fiddly. 

Banana plugs and sockets are a more convenient yet still simple option, you won't have to fiddle underneath with a screwdriver.

A single multi-way plug and socket is even more convenient, as long as the contacts are rated for enough current.   Bear in mind you will eventually be running more than just a DCC bus, you'll also have a "lighting bus" (at least) and possibly other connections for bits and pieces.

I use D-Sub connectors for neatness but with DC I'm not loading any wiring with more than one or two locos.  N-Club International (whose modular standards I now adhere to) used to specify D-Subs for their 6 main bus wires but have now changed to banana plugs.

Here's one of my "adapter-to-adapter" adapters  :D  which converts from D-Sub 15 (which I chose to use internally on my modular boards) to D-Sub 37 (NCI's old standard) to bananas.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/5885-160219094307.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74179)



An alternative approach could be to have a "star-wired"  style rather than a "daisy-chain". In other words, your DCC system connects to a central distribution panel and from there a cable and a connector takes the bus(es) to each board.  It might be overkill in your case, but I prefer this approach as I have several baseboards and it means I can power up and test/work on one board in isolation if necessary.

Gosh you really are on it with your connectors nick (I though you would be!). I'll try John's connector-free approach first and if I need a plan B I'll come back to the connectors!  :) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 16, 2019, 10:16:41 AM
Hi Matt. Don't cut the notches deeper than about 1 cm or you will weaken the woodwork. The same goes for the holes. It might also be worth incorporating some extra holes/notches in anticipation of your lighting supply.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 16, 2019, 10:56:35 AM
Hi Matt. Don't cut the notches deeper than about 1 cm or you will weaken the woodwork. The same goes for the holes. It might also be worth incorporating some extra holes/notches in anticipation of your lighting supply.

Cool, will do!

Meanwhile in other news, work on the embankment also continues. I've made it removable, which will be useful when I come to flip the layout to redo the wiring stuff.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-160219105623.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74183)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: swisstrains on February 16, 2019, 11:06:25 AM
Nice sturdy construction Matt. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: dannyboy on February 16, 2019, 04:20:23 PM
There are numerous ways to get power from one board to another. My favourite is this type of connector -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-Pole-Plug-Socket-6A-Terminal-Strip-HYPS-01712/263730714333?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-Pole-Plug-Socket-6A-Terminal-Strip-HYPS-01712/263730714333?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649)

I have used various connectors in the past, but have found ordinary or 'plugable' choc-blocks to be my favourite.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 16, 2019, 06:11:02 PM
Nice sturdy construction Matt. :thumbsup:

Thanks John!

I went to visit the Milton Keynes model railway society exhibition today. I'm just back and I have to say it was hugely inspirational. There was a really good German N layout there of Berlin-ish type city setting. I love the long and narrow N gauge layouts split with scenics at the front and shadow yard at the back, that will definitely be the format for my next layout!

In addition, there's just something about N Gauge that is hugely captivating compared to any other scale. It puts across the setting of the railway so well and it's small scale and intricacy of trains and scenic details just makes it even more appealing!

Plenty of food for thought, very glad I attended.
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 17, 2019, 08:58:09 AM
More embankment work...


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-170219085743.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74199)


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-170219085800.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74200)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 17, 2019, 05:09:40 PM
you may recall that the first hill I made resembled a frog somewhat. Luckily no such silly look-alike issues with the second hill!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/7020-170219170926.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=74224)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on February 17, 2019, 05:32:01 PM
You've definitely gone over to the dark side :-)
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: Globibahn on February 17, 2019, 05:54:37 PM
You've definitely gone over to the dark side :-)

So it would seem!  :laughabovepost:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: mika on February 17, 2019, 08:18:58 PM
Hi Matt, good one.
Just as Gold Five said: "Stay on target!" :D :D :D

Keep up the good work.
Best,
Michael
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: weave on February 17, 2019, 10:12:52 PM
Just put a mast and sails on it, some Mod Roc sponsorship decals and you could enter it in the N gauge America's Cup  :D.

Hi Matt,

Great stuff. I tend to lose interest when electrickery is involved as don't know what you're talking about but the rest seems to be coming along nicely.

Thanks for sharing.

cheers weave  :beers:
Title: Re: Living Room 1:160 DB Layout
Post by: NScaleNotes on February 18, 2019, 09:23:32 AM
I went to visit the Milton Keynes model railway society exhibition today. I'm just back and I have to say it was hugely inspirational. There was a really good German N layout there of Berlin-ish type city setting.

That was Schwungischer. One of my favourites; I've seen it at a couple of different exhibitions and always come away wanting to build a Berlin Stadtbahn layout.

In addition, there's just something about N Gauge that is hugely captivating compared to any other scale. It puts across the setting of the railway so well and it's small scale and intricacy of trains and scenic details just makes it even more appealing!

Plenty of food for thought, very glad I attended.

Totally agree, I've always liked seeing the trains in and through believable landscaping, Clifton and Lowther in particular was very good for this and everything had been weathered really well.

I came away thoroughly inspired too.

Simon