N Gauge Forum

Your Layout and Models => Track, Points and Underlay => Topic started by: Wayne Kinney on December 27, 2011, 12:56:46 PM

Title: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 27, 2011, 12:56:46 PM
Hi Guys,

This is my first post here, but I am a keen N Gauge and 2mm Finescale modeller. I am enjoying the process of converting loco's to 2mm finescale, and also track building.

The main reason for converting to 2mm finescale was the quest for better looking trackwork in this scale. After seeing the 'Easitrac' system from the 2mm Association, I was pretty much sold. They have done a fantastic job with this system and the trackwork looks great.

After about a year of building turnouts using this system, I felt that there was a need for a finer looking track system for N Gauge modellers, so I set about looking into this.

I have been in communication with Mick & Nigel and the 2mm Association Committe and they have agreed to get me in contact with the toolmaker of the Easitrac bases so that I can design and produce an N Gauge Track System.

My plan is to produce both N Gauge plain line track bases with code 40 rail and also turnout kits. This would be a fine track system, so would only be compatable with newer wheel sets, not 'pizza cutter' flanges :)

The turnout kits would comprise of the following:

Laser cut sleeper/timbering bases, with pre drilled holes to locate the chairs and frog.
Chemically milled/etched Nickel Silver frog & wing rails (option for this to be pre soldered and ready to go)
Bullhead Rail & Chairs
Pre filed and soldered switch blades
PCB tie bare pre soldered to blades

My aim is to create a turnout kit that is simple to assemble, with the frog/wing rails pre done. For a basic tunrout, I am aiming at a price of between £10 - £15 each. I am hoping that the plain line will work out to about £4.60 per metre :)

So the result, I hope, will be an N gauge track system that looks very fine but simple to build and assemble. There is a high initial investment in tooling for myself to pursue such a project, so I am really seeing how many N gauge modellers would be interested in such a system?

One thing I would like to make clear is that, although inspired by 'Easitrac' from the 2mm Association, Easitrac is their brand and is a 2mm Finescale product. I do not wish to upset the 2mm Association with any of my plans for an N Gauge system, as such I wish to keep the term 'Easitrac' away from anything I am doing here. I believe that is the respectful thing to do.

*****EDIT*****
I am posting the most up to date CAD images here of the progress thus far on 22/01/12:

Below is what I think is the finished CAD design for the plain track bases. I have modelled in chair detail like bolts:
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/track%20base.jpg)(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/track%20base01.jpg)

I am fairly happy with these but would like comments.

Attention then 'turns' to turnouts. My original design was a laser cut styrene base, but samples proved that laser cutting is probably not the best way to go due to warping and melting. Notice the holes for locating the chairs & rail.
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/laser cutting1.jpg)(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/lasercutreal.jpg)

So I decided that a solid milled base would prove much better and stronger. Below is the current design for the base. It is 1mm thick overall, with 0.3mm webbing:
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/milledbase.jpg)(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/milledbase02.jpg)

The holes are location holes for the chairs, the chairs have a pin in the bottom to fit into the holes on the base:
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/turnout chair.jpg)

Below are some images of what a completed turnout will look like. This is using 0.77mm flange way clearances:
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/turnout01.jpg)(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/turnout02.jpg)

And once ballasted:
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/turnout03.jpg)(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/turnout04.jpg)

Some milled bases, milled myself on a CNC milling machine bought for this project :)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/mymilledbase01.jpg)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/mymilledbase02.jpg)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/mymilledbase03.jpg)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/mymilledbase04.jpg)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/mymilledbase05.jpg)

Here is a video showing the milling of a turnout base:
Milling fiNetrax N Gauge turnout base.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=374ITh7n0LE#)

The mould tool for the turnout chairs finally made!

(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/Chair%20tool.jpg)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/Chair%20tool%202.jpg)

And moulded sprue of chairs :)

(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/turnout%20chairs%20moulded.jpg)

And first pics of a prototype, a B6. The Frog/crossing is 3D printed, but will be lost wax cast in Nickel Silver:

(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5236.JPG)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5237.JPG)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5238.JPG)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5239.JPG)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5240.JPG)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5241.JPG)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5247.JPG)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5248.JPG)

Here are the initial pictures of plain line bullhead rail:

(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5442s.jpg)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5446s.jpg)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5447s.jpg)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5448s.jpg)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5449s.jpg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on December 27, 2011, 01:53:09 PM
Hi
I would looking forward to see N (9 mm) track to finer standard and UK sleeper spacing. Though I would prefer wheelsets with 7,54 mm and finer back-to-back would pass. No need to consider coarser settings for me.

Bullhead rail for a start should be fine. But I'd really like to see flat bottom rail with wooden and concrete sleeper track and points in due course.

I've tried Easitrack with sample packs from the N Gauge Society shop and was rather disappointed. The samples that I received, contained railes that were kinked without hope to straighten them and some strange dirt covered them that I couldn't remove with any solvent chemicals. However I managed to assemble a short length and that was straight forward enough and looks good.

So, please seriously consider packaging and secure the fine track on heavy card or thin plywood - NOT paper.

Do you have a timescale for when and where this will be available?

Good luck with this project and I think this is overdue.
Mac
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on December 27, 2011, 02:03:36 PM
Re-reading again, will the different type of chairs and sleeper for points be available seperatly? Know with Templot available for free this would be great.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 27, 2011, 02:26:57 PM
Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

I am currently reviewing flange way gap and tolerances, I believe a 0.85mm flange way gap will be acceptable but this may need increasing.

Flat bottom & concrete sleeper bases are something I would have to consider after (or if) I have broken even with tooling, this alone will be over £6000 :)

I am not entirely sure with time scale; it all depends on which design route I take and which suppliers I finally go with. I could potentially be up and running in 2 months.

We would also offer sleeper strip (in 35cm lengths) for those that which to build turnouts to their own geometry. The chairs would have locating posts on the bottom (these locate into the laser cut bases), these would simply need trimming off with a sharp knife to use on sleeper strip.

We will sell the chairs separately from the kits, but as a sprue of 2 slide chairs, 8 normal chairs and 1 check rail chair.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on December 27, 2011, 05:55:11 PM
Hi do you have a retail partner or are you going to sell direct? Also are you going to produce track gauges, I am in the process of getting some roller and nose gauges turned for Nn3 to code 40 rail. It may also open up the opportunity to build track at 1:148th scale and not standard 9mm.
Well good luck and keep us up to date.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 27, 2011, 06:01:36 PM
Hi,

Yes, I plan to get some gauges turned from brass.

The plan is to sell direct, at least at first. Due to the cost of materials and manufacture, I can only just about get to a reasonable retail price, it maybe hard to offer a wholesale price to a reseller and make it worth it, I am not sure yet.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Lawrence on December 27, 2011, 07:16:39 PM
Hi Wayne, well it is a huge undertaking introducing such a major new product to the market, I wish you well with it.  I would certainly urge you to seriously consider concrete sleepers, you just have to look round this forum to see how many modern image modellers there are, the other plus is the lack of modern image pointwork.

Up to £15 for a point and £4.60 per metre you are well into the Kato price bracket there, so what ever you come up with it will have to be spot on, I think for the enthusiast it will be an attraction, for the general modeller in the current climate, it may be a bit rich.

Whatever way it goes, the very best of luck  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on December 27, 2011, 08:29:51 PM
Firstly Wayne i congratulate you for spotting a niche in the N Gauge market and having the boldness to invest your time and money to persue it.
I am sure there will be many on here who will be watching with great interest how things progress.
I for one certainly will be......... :thumbsup:

I wish you the best of luck with this.... :NGAUGE:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on December 28, 2011, 12:13:00 AM
Plain track no - easitrac works just fine with N stock and looks better for the extra 0.5mm even if it needs a bit of gently nudging inwards for the points. I pondered this long and hard and decided not to do what you are pondering because

a) it'll cost a bomb
b) If you are a success you'll jog Peco into responding at which point while you'll have performed a laudable service you won't sell any more bits. I didn't like the idea of blowing £10,000 of my and the banks money on doing free market research for Peco.

For the points - maybe - I've yet to see a convincing etched frog that looks like rail versus the US cast frogs. If I want a nondescript frog Peco will do fine 8) - plus if your point base is designed right the two filed bits of frog will be held firmly together even if not soldered. I don't think an etched frog works for the UK. An etched base with two grooves to solder the frog rails into to get the right angle, and bend down tabs to wire the power and locate it on the other hand might.

Laser cut sleeper bases seem an obvious alternative to the milled ones and ought to work out quite cheaply. 3D print is the other option but those who've tried it seriously reckon it's not yet good enough to print the chairs and thread the rail in.

Thinking on a less grand scale point bases that locate the rails would be good - but that surely is simply a matter of using the 2mmSA design milled bases but milling a small (0.2mm or so) rail wide groove so that the rails can be dropped into position by feel and then the chairs glued.

I suspect your pricing is out ? If your sale price is  not two to three times the price of the bits you'll probably not cover your costs and begin to pay your development off by the time you factor in all the paperwork, insurance, accountant and other overheads.

So points maybe - plain track, no. Easitrac looks better for N, works well for N and the extra 0.42mm is an improvement that is compatible with N wheels,and also  works better with older flanges and code 40. For plain track it just works - no point messing around duplicating it - and in fact it'll be worse for everyone because the more people use easitrac the faster the 2mmSA pay off the tooling and the sooner we all get more track types and other bits.

The last problem is going to be that you won't easily match laser cut point bases and plastic track. That argues either for laser cut sleepers and etched fittings - akin to the  proto-87 trackwork or perhaps milled plastic bases ?

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 28, 2011, 09:07:05 AM
Hi guys,

Thanks for your replies and interest.

We are probably looking at around £12e for a basic turnout kit. A Peco slip costs upto £31, a kit would be under £20.

A few have said no to plain track. My worry is that I believe this should be marketed as a complete system, I guess I shouldn't expect modellers to purchase my turnouts and then have to pay a joining fee to purchase plain track elsewhere (although joining is a good thing). The Association has made it clear that they wish to keepí Easitrací as a 2mm product, I have already made enquiries about reselling some of their parts (bases, chairs and rail) but understandably they don't want this and I respect that decision. To that end, investing in an N Gauge plain track base is really a must.

Regarding Peco, never say never but I am doubting that they would produce a track system as fine as what I am proposing here. Maybe they will surprise me :)

I am submitting artwork for a prototype etched frog to the etching company today. I am hoping that they can turn this around pretty fast. The etch is designed as such to represent the profile section of bullhead rail, its made from 3 layers that will solder together. I will post pics of it here as soon as I get them . Before that, I will get some CAD images up so you get the idea. Being able to provide a completed frog in a kit would make the kit far simpler to construct.

I am not sure what issues you see with matching laser cut bases with plastic plain track? The material thickness is the same as if using loose sleeper strips. Do you mean the finish of the material?

Regarding costs, I have this in hand ( I believe :) ). I already run a business designing camera & filmmaking accessories (www.shoot35.com (http://www.shoot35.com)) so I would run this through the Ltd Company, combining overheads.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on December 28, 2011, 10:40:55 AM
I'm very keen to see finer point kits especially made for N gauge that will significantly reduce the assembly and soldering element - it's an unfortunate fact the N gauge 'modellers' shun away from difficult kit and scratch building and err towards RTR.

* pre-drilled chair location holes
* pre-soldered/made frog/crossing
* pre-filed blades (the tapers are a real pig to form accurately)
* pre-bent/formed check rails
* and so on

Plain track would be a waste of time, money and resources IMO. You'd just be duplicating the Easitrac plain track but a fraction narrower (which would actually be less to 1:148 scale) and which people won't notice. And you've got a lot of catch up; wooden and concrete sleepers to develop in to what will basically only be a 'me-too' competitive product.

If you don't bother with a concrete sleepers/flat bottom rail option then I certainly wouldn't choose a 9mm/wooden sleeper and try and mix with 9.42mm. I'd prefer to use both from the 9.42mm stable.

So for me it's points is a definate (they'd be very welcome and I look forward to seeing them), but don't bother with plain track. Or at least start with the points and once you have a decent range then consider whether to add plain track.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on December 28, 2011, 10:46:50 AM
I'm the same as some of the above comments.  I'd certainly be looking at the points, as this is what stopped me going for the Easitrac option.  I just don't have the time to create their points.  However, a kit would be a great timesaver (or even completed kits)! :angel: 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: brbluewill on December 28, 2011, 11:07:37 AM
i have fancied giving this a go but the point construction has always put me off.might give it a bash on a small shelf layout as a practise exercise.keep us informed :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Roy L S on December 28, 2011, 11:57:02 AM
I have to say I agree with Wayne that there is either an entire track sysyem or nothing. Easitrack is only available to 2mmSA members and not everyone by a long way will want to join. nor will people necessarily want to "doctor" track ends of 9.42mm gauge plain track to fit 9mm gauge Code 40 points. The track system needs to fit properly without "bodging" and be easy to use.

For my money it will need it's own USP and for me as a buyer that would be proper sleeper sizes and spacings and prototypical looking fine Bullhead rail. In essence looks wise what "Easitrack" already gives 2mm modellers but tooled specifucally for N.

The importance of it being a complete track system would mean that points would need to be easy to assemble by the "average" modeller and for me that should involve minimal use of a soldering iron, and ideally not having to solder together laminated etched parts. If points are simple to assemble and wire, and work reliably I think that as word spreads it would sell itself. If they are too challenging for the "average" modeller I think there is a risk of excluding too many from the potential market.

Then do not forget a sound reliable system to conect track lengths. It will make alignment easier and also I feel many will be put off if this has to entail soldering dropper-wires between each short length of track, especially on larger layouts (for which N is so suited and yet are comparatively rare in 2mmFS).

With regard to competition from Peco I am not convinced. Consider how long it took to release an assymetric three way point, and even then they did not see it as cost-effective to tool a second as a "mirror image" and that is a "generic" track for a vast international market. No, for me the market for a specifically "British" n gauge track system is way too small to make even a small range viable to a big player like them.

Just my thoughts...

Roy

 

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on December 28, 2011, 12:20:45 PM
Easitrack is only available to 2mmSA members and not everyone by a long way will want to join. nor will people necessarily want to "doctor" track ends of 9.42mm gauge plain track to fit 9mm gauge Code 40 points. The track system needs to fit properly without "bodging" and be easy to use.

I think you'll find that EasiTrac deosn't have to be exclusively available from the 2mmSA - AFAIA it was developed as a privately funded project (not the 2mmSA) and I believe that the NGS also has the option of stocking and selling it. Most people that would be interested are probably already members of either (or even both) and even if you have to join something then what the heck - no different to needing to join the NGS to buy one of their RTR wagons and as you know there are a whole host of other benefits.

Also I don't know if you've tried it, but it sound like you haven't if you think there is a need to 'doctor' the ends of the rail to fit 9.42mm plain Easitrac to 9mm gauge made Easitrac points. That is not the case. The rails simply flex inwards - in fact they only each have a deflection of a fifth of a mil so it's not even obvious. There's no filing, bending or 'bodging' necessary.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Roy L S on December 28, 2011, 01:35:43 PM
Hi H

Yes, you are correct. I have only seen Easitrack, but never tried it for myself, therefore I do to bow to your experience on the subject of how compatible it is with N. I am given to understand that it works well enough with current N wheel standards but I am still of the view that if Wayne is looking at a new commercially viable finer and more accurate alternative to current N standards (Thinking Peco Code 55 for that) it has to be a range that includes plain track, and if he is going to do that it may as well be correctly gauged to 9mm.

Oh and as a long standing NGS member I do endorse what you say about being a member - well worth it.

Cheers

Roy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on December 28, 2011, 03:26:51 PM
I am submitting artwork for a prototype etched frog to the etching company today. I am hoping that they can turn this around pretty fast. The etch is designed as such to represent the profile section of bullhead rail, its made from 3 layers that will solder together.

Actual rail is two parts that solder together and looks right.

Quote
I am not sure what issues you see with matching laser cut bases with plastic plain track? The material thickness is the same as if using loose sleeper strips. Do you mean the finish of the material?

The finish.  I did look at the proto-87 folks N scale track and some of the other US systems but one of the problems was going to be matching the laser cut sleepers with plastic trackwork. I think the laser stuff looks better for wood but it was sort of decided for other reasons - eg the ease fo assembly of easitrac.


Have you talked to the proto-87 folks by the way. Their jigs and sleepers are for US outline but a lot of the other bits are possibly useful and might cut down the costs if going that way. There are also several sources (one UK) of code 40 rail that might mean you can avoid the need to get rail drawn - which tends to be pricy for the tooling and awkward to store. Same problem with metal roof profiles - 'the tooling is [ouch], and then it's £x per 500m', except you can probably shift 500m of rail easier than 500m of coach roof !


Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 28, 2011, 03:37:37 PM
Proof is in the pudding I guess, I can show images on here once I get some prototypes.

I haven't been in contact with them, no. I beleive I can source rail.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thos on December 28, 2011, 07:18:02 PM
In addition to the aesthetic advantages of code 40, there is also the issue of outsized bogies.  Replacing RTR wheels with finescale (N=1.3mm) means that Easitrac cannot be used.
K+1.3 >= 9.42 + 0.5
K >= 8.62
which is too wide for 9mm.  If K<8.12 the wheels will fall inside the track.

Therefore if one wishes to use narrow wheels, Easitrac may not be used - Easitrac requires wide wheels.

As regards gauge, there are several options.

1. NEM (K=7.9 to 8.1, S=7.2 to 7.3) 1.3mm wheels will have 0.4mm of 9mm track covered and 0.1mm uncovered. Wheels will fall inside Easitrac.

2. NMRA (K= 8.15, S=7.5)  Wheels will have only 0.03mm on Easitrac.  On 9mm track they will have 0.45mm of the rail covered and 0.05mm uncovered.  This is acceptable.

3. Fine:N (K=8.5, S=8.0).  Ideal for narrow wheels but standard wide wheels cannot be used.

Therefore to use 1.3mm wheels, Easitrac may not be used.  Fine:N may be used if only narrow wheels are to be used.  NMRA standards allow both, but NEM do not.

_________________________________________________________

I had resigned myself to building Fast-Tracks turnouts and plain track for my visible area with Peco-55 for the hidden area.  Your proposed system certainly seems as if it would satisfy my requirements.

You may also find customers in the Fine:N community in America and Europe.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on December 28, 2011, 10:52:21 PM
fiNe is 1:160 scale unless you are modelling a few obscure tramways and the like or some early pre 1850s stuff. There are also already ranges of relevant trackwork for that.

N in the UK is 1:148 which means it should be about 9.6mm,  which makes 9.42mm a big improvement (visually noticable too).

If you want to run narrow wheels in the UK then you use the 2mmSA wheels and run to 2fs standards. At that point you've got a wide range of wheels, diesel conversion parts and the like available, plus help and guides, easitrac, track templates, jigs and so on - and more importantly a complete specified and compatible standard for all the bits.

You'd have to be pretty perverse to try and do fiNe to a UK prototype !
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thos on December 29, 2011, 12:46:41 AM
Agreed, 2mm is a set of consistent standards, but that also means that you have to sign up for all of it, which means scratchbuilding, kitbuilding or converting everything, including steamer driving wheels.  Few buildings and figures are available in 1:152.4  For a lot of work your grandson could have a wonderful layout.

FS160 and Fine:N are consistent 1:160.  FS160 is designed to use 2mm wheels and Fine:N has wheels to similar standards.

Alternatively, one could keep to RTR stock and Peco-55 track.  Rolling stock and some buildings and a few figures would be at 1:148 with the rest at 1:160, which is 8% smaller.  Track will look chunky and rolling stock will have wide wheels - leading bogies being most noticeably wrong.

It has been frequently stated that Easitrac may be used for N.  This is true so long as one avoids 1.3mm wheels which would fall between the rails.

I object to both chunky track and wide wheels.  However, I am wary of 2mm because I would have to build or convert everything.  It would seem that Wayne's system would be the answer to my needs because it would allow me to

use Union Mills engines, keeping the wheels and traction tyres
replace bogie wheels with narrower ones when I want to
use 2mm kits such as  by Messrs Johnson and Doherty and N from Messrs Tilson and Cox
use Peco-55 in my hidden areas and helices for extra grip and economy
use prettier turnouts and plain track in the visible area without the expense of Fast-Tracks.

I accept that I would have a hodge-podge of 1:148, 1:152.4 and 1:160 or +-4%.  What I am after is a workable compromise that removes the worst aspects of N without having to go completely to 2mm: a sort of CofE or Social Democrat half-way house, not a UK-prototype Fine:N.

This assumes that both Union Mills engines and 1.3mm wheels will run on Wayne's system - if not it's back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 29, 2011, 08:24:39 AM
Working with a 0.85mm - 0.9mm flangeway to accomadate British N wheelsets, I beleive 1.3mm wheels would 'fall in the gap'.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thos on December 29, 2011, 10:08:26 AM
Bognor!

In that case I would only be interested in plain track.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on December 29, 2011, 10:35:20 AM
This thread has surprised me quite a bit, the call for British track has been growing over the last few years. Now someone has put their head above the parapet, it gets shot down.

I do not think you can only produce points, to have a range you need flexi track. Some points might not sell enough to cover tooling, flexi track will sell loads and cover the any short falls.

I do feel that at this moment the NGS should step in and produce some standards. This should have been done 20 years ago, but does Ned to be done now.

It would be nice to see a move to true 1:148 scale track, wheels and the rest. Time to have a serious debate and set the rules for the future.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thos on December 29, 2011, 11:19:19 AM
I do feel that at this moment the NGS should step in and produce some standards.

It would be nice to see a move to true 1:148 scale track, wheels and the rest.
I agree that we need modern UK standards.  However we do not need yet another track gauge - most users of N want tight radii and 9.7mm gauge would not be practicable.  A standard based on either 9mm or 9.42mm should suffice.

In either case, the standards need to be agreed by NGS, Farish, Peco and Dapol - and would they be willing to move away from 9mm?

Alternatively the standard could be based on 1:160 throughout.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: polo2k on December 29, 2011, 11:37:10 AM
how did the NMRA create their rule book? that seems to have been universally adopted

Even NMRA is not totally universal (i.e. pizza cutters wont work)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on December 29, 2011, 11:46:19 AM
Agreed, 2mm is a set of consistent standards, but that also means that you have to sign up for all of it, which means scratchbuilding, kitbuilding or converting everything, including steamer driving wheels.  Few buildings and figures are available in 1:152.4  For a lot of work your grandson could have a wonderful layout.

Rubbish. Most people using 2fs are using 1:152 and 1:148 stuff. As btw are many people using N if they took a micrometer to much of their scenery and the like. Quite a few run things like 1:160 Eurostars and Lemke tampers too. Particularly for buildings 1:160 v 1:152 v 1:148 is actually less than the variation you find just measuring real ones.

For 2fs it takes about 5 minutes to change the wheels on a Farish diesel, 1 minute on a coach. Some of the other wheels are a bit more complicated and either need turning via the 2mmSA service.

Quote
It has been frequently stated that Easitrac may be used for N.  This is true so long as one avoids 1.3mm wheels which would fall between the rails.

Yes but nobody else is proposing to do that - it would magnify the errors in the look of N. If you are using 1.3mm wheels its easier for the UK case to use 2mmSA wheels as they are off the shelf drop ins for many wheel types and a turning service for the others, and then you are back to 2fs.

Quote
use Union Mills engines, keeping the wheels and traction tyres
replace bogie wheels with narrower ones when I want to

Alas probably not because you'll be pushed to build a turnout that will take both, probably it would need a swivelling frog.

Quote
I accept that I would have a hodge-podge of 1:148, 1:152.4 and 1:160 or +-4%.  What I am after is a workable compromise that removes the worst aspects of N without having to go completely to 2mm: a sort of CofE or Social Democrat half-way house, not a UK-prototype Fine:N.

If only track geometry worked like that we'd all be at it 8)

Quote
This assumes that both Union Mills engines and 1.3mm wheels will run on Wayne's system - if not it's back to the drawing board.

Yep.

Union Mills can be converted to 2fs by turning the wheels down but it does sometimes need some slight thinning of the bodywork each side to keep sufficient clearances. It's one of the harder cases I suppose. In the diesel world it's all rather easier.

I use easitrac with current N wheels. It's a compromise but not a particular problematic one for me. As you say it does mean you can get more built and running. Going to thinner wheels would actually make the models look worse from many angles as it would effectively move the wheels inwards. Right now the overly narrow track and overly wide wheels mean that the outside facing surface of the wheels is in about the right place.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: polo2k on December 29, 2011, 11:56:34 AM
You mentioned a swiveling frog in your post, this got me thinking:

would it be feasible to build a point that had the switch rails as a single rigid assembly that includes the frog and pivots under the frog, it would reduce the number of parts and complexity, could be cast with the rails embedded and if the pivot extends below the board you could attach a servo horn and even use the pivot rod for frog switching. this would allow use of solenoids, servos, point roding etc

If you were casting then you could get all fancy and add graphite to the mix so its self lubricating (graphite might be conductive in this application), it would also colour it and avoid scratches showing through.

if you use this idea PM me for the details of where to pay my fee ;)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on December 29, 2011, 12:03:52 PM
would it be feasible to build a point that had the switch rails as a single rigid assembly that includes the frog and pivots under the frog,

Yes - lots of early toy train track and some cheap modern track is made exactly this way. A variant is to make the frog and upper bits of the switch rails a single part and then below that have a second single part which is the lower switch rails and the tie bar which pivots where the two parts join. Kato #6 do that.

The trick used with swivelling frog points to cope with coarse and fine O scale is that the point of rotation is such that the frog itself moves and forms a continuous section of rail in the direction of travel. It doesn't look terribly good but it can cope with all sorts of weird wheel profiles. It's something I've pondered trying to build offscene to have a section of track which has no visible pointwork but which can be accessed by N or 2fs stock.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 29, 2011, 12:46:04 PM
Wow, lots of replies :)

The aim is to allow modern British N Gauge (modern build, not modern image, so steam locos also) loco's and stock (farish, Dapol & peco) to run, I am currently running tests to choose the best flangeway clearances to use.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on December 29, 2011, 01:09:08 PM
Another vote for points only to 9mm as I don't see much point in duplicating Easitrac (which just works with modern N wheels). I would be looking very much at the P4 track company and Easitrac point kits. I wouldn't waste your funds on plain track not until you had cracked points anyway. The reality is that with a little bit of work I can already build Easitrac points to 9mm so to be a success I think they would have to be easier to build.

Despite my personal enthusiasm for finer scale points to go with Easitrac I fear you may have to accept that it will at least initially be a very niche product. To my amazement there are still people using Peco code 80 so the chances of converting them to code 40 may be slim!

Good luck!

Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on December 29, 2011, 01:39:58 PM
Need the cheaper plain track sales to help with the cost of tooling points. Sales will be limited if it is not a complete system.
I would be very cautious at this point, we need standards to be set by the NGS or you will be pulled in all directions.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 29, 2011, 01:49:59 PM
Thanks Mike,

I guess at the moment, people are choosing Peco code 55 (or 80)because, as far as they are probably aware, its their only option. I certainly wasn't aware of 'Easitrac' when I was first planning a layout. It only became apparent when I got interested in fine detailing and then found the 2mm Association.

I would imagine most are not aware of Easitrac, or if they are, put off by how daunting it 'may' seem.

My aim is to produce a solution that is simple to put together, with the hardest parts predone. If I can manage to advertise in a rail magazine or 2, and on here, I beleive N Gaugers will be far more aware of the option.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on December 29, 2011, 02:18:35 PM
Need the cheaper plain track sales to help with the cost of tooling points. Sales will be limited if it is not a complete system.

Your point about plain track sales subsidising points is only correct if that is the business model chosen - the alternative is to make the price for the points self-funding! This has the added advantage of tooling investment not being spent on a product that already exists.

Complete system - this is a bogus argument.  We already buy bits and pieces from whichever manufacturer suits our needs. Your idea of a complete system may be very different to mine in terms of point geometry and types available.  To my mind the complete system argument is an argument for doing nothing.

I would be very cautious at this point, we need standards to be set by the NGS or you will be pulled in all directions.

I fear we might be waiting a long time for the NGS to set standards...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 29, 2011, 02:41:18 PM
Its true that sales of the plain line will help pay the tooling of the turnouts, but also introduces its own tooling costs so is really only paying itself off initially:)

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Gordon on December 29, 2011, 02:53:47 PM
I would only
 buy flat bottom rail as I don't generally do old UK subjects. This set me thinking about rail codes. For comparisons there is a very useful web page :

http://www.s-scale.org.uk/rails.htm (http://www.s-scale.org.uk/rails.htm)

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 29, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Hi,

This is a very useful link as I am thinking about tooling for rail manufacture vs purchasing from Marcway. Many thanks!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on December 29, 2011, 03:09:46 PM
I personally think your idea of plain track and points  is a good one.
It would be a natural progression from code 55 in the same way most people start off with set track then move on to code 80 and then to the finer looking code 55.
OK you may not get people keen on the idea of code 40 who are building their first layout...but as their knowledge and experience grows so will the desire for finer track and points.
Speaking personally i would be more inclined to look at a complete track system rather than scrabble about looking for different components.

I would love to be using code 40 track and points but as with many modellers i dont feel i have the skill to build pointwork....
What you are proposing Wayne would go a long way to getting many of us on the road to finer looking trackwork.......
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thos on December 29, 2011, 07:13:48 PM
Going to thinner wheels would actually make the models look worse from many angles as it would effectively move the wheels inwards. Right now the overly narrow track and overly wide wheels mean that the outside facing surface of the wheels is in about the right place.

Alan

On reflection, you are right.  I was planning on using a constant K=8.15, so the trackwork would be OK but the overall width would be reduced so it would still look all wrong.  To use narrow wheeled bogies I would also have to use narrow driving wheels and adopt Fine:N, which would be as much work as 2mm.

I think the answer is to keep the wide wheels but avoid locomotives with leading bogies.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 01, 2012, 12:03:02 PM
Hi Guys,

Firstly, Happy New Year to you all!

I am looking into what flangeway clearances to use on fiNetrax turnouts. It is known that the RTR manufactures do not set the wheel back to backs very accurately, and there are also different standards (NMRA, NEM etc).

I have taken back to back measurements of some of my locos & stock, see below:

Dimensions in mm-
Dapol Terrier: 7.44 - 7.50
Dapol Q1: Drivers: 7.4 7.44 Tender: 7.35 - 7.43
Farish 08: 7.27 - 7.35
Farish Class 57xx: 7.22 - 7.25
Dapol B17: Pony: 7.49 - 7.51 Drivers: 7.43 - 7.49 Tender: 7.44 - 7.45
Dapol Britannia: Pony: 7.44 Drivers: 7.43 - 7.53 Tender: 7.40 - 7.46
Peco Collett: Drivers: 7.39 - 7.57 Tender: 7.57 - 7.67
Farish B1: Pony: 7.40 - 7.43 Drivers: 7.37 - 7.50 Tender: 7.34 - 7.39
Farish 4MT: Pony: 7.28 Drviers7.28 Drivers: 7.33 - 7.41 Tender: 7.33
Farish MK1 Coach (1): 7.16 - 7.19
Farish MK1 Coach (2): 7.28 - 7.30

As you can see, quite a large range from 7.16 - 7.67, even big differences on the same loco. To allow all the above to run through a turnout, we would need large 1mm flangeways (like peco).

So, I need to decide where to take this. Should I design turnouts with large flangeway clearances to allow stock to run through without modification, or do I tighten things up and expect modellers to set the back to backs to a set gauge? If so, I beleive we can get the flangeways down to 0.8mm, which will look much better.

I guess if a modeller is considering assembling a tunrout kit, they should be considering setting the back to backs anyway?

I would like your thoughts on this :) I have added a poll to this thread.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 01, 2012, 12:50:16 PM
Need the cheaper plain track sales to help with the cost of tooling points. Sales will be limited if it is not a complete system.

Surely if you produce both points and plain track, the initial sales revenue from each will be required to pay off the tooling cost for each, not to cross subsidise. Secondly, I, and no doubt others, wouldn't buy 9mm plain track while Easitrac is available in a large range of concrete and wooden sleepers. The cost of tooling up for all those alternatives would be 'pointless' with such competition already available.

Thirdly, as already mentioned, this will still be very much a niche product and is unlikely to attract massive sales; sales will be limited regardless of what is available. N gauge enthusiasts are notorious for not wanting to assemble kits and undertake soldering which will be required for both points and plain track; in general they're RTR beasts. Some even find it difficult to cut flexitrack and put fishplates on, preferring setrack with fishplates already in place.

Finally, a complete system would be available; Easitrack plain track along with the new 9mm points.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 01, 2012, 01:15:27 PM
I would imagine most are not aware of Easitrac, or if they are, put off by how daunting it 'may' seem.

I'm not so sure about that. Easitrac has been discussed at length on many other very large internet forums, including RMweb and the N gauge yahoo group. It's also been featured in N'spirations, mentioned in the NGS Journal, and some clubs have even run workshops about using it and building the points. I'd be pretty certain that a good number of N gauge enthusiasts are aware of Easitrac.

I'd be more inclined to think that they are aware that it requires some assembly but not necessarily the extent. The issue will be explaining what is required assembly-wise with a new track system (especially if it comes in kits) in order to get it accepted and sold. And the snag is that in general N gauge enthusiastrs tend to be very much RTR inclined. 

Don't forget that the biggest demand/market for new track is from beginners when they want to 'build' their first train set (established enthusiasts tend to already have a layout) and they are the people with less modelling skills and experience who look for ease and simplicity for their first attempt.

H.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mustermark on January 01, 2012, 02:20:59 PM
My opinion would be that pretty much anyone wanting such fine scale track would be capable of setting back to backs and the most accurate point work would be the most desirable when taking the time to assemble the kits.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 01, 2012, 02:32:07 PM
My opinion would be that pretty much anyone wanting such fine scale track would be capable of setting back to backs and the most accurate point work would be the most desirable when taking the time to assemble the kits.

Certainly agree with that; with the proviso of the flangeways being capable of accepting current modern wheel standards - NMRA RP25.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thos on January 01, 2012, 03:09:13 PM
My opinion would be that pretty much anyone wanting such fine scale track would be capable of setting back to backs and the most accurate point work would be the most desirable when taking the time to assemble the kits.

Certainly agree with that; with the proviso of the flangeways being capable of accepting current modern wheel standards - NMRA RP25.

H.
I concur: NMRA RP-25 wheels set to S-4.2 required; the track shall comply with S-3.2
Therefore you should also sell the appropriate gauges on your site.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 01, 2012, 08:58:57 PM
You can't actually set all UK stock to NMRA back to back, some vehicles foul if you do that, and the Dapol coach half axles will split very easily and there are no spares available.

I don't actually think its a big deal - you need to set wheels more towards NMRA spec and that is true for old style wheels on Kato track too. However religious following of the NMRA spec is just as hard if not harder than going 2fs, which is a whole world better (especially for 1:148 scale)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Joe 90 on January 02, 2012, 11:29:04 AM
I've been watching this topic with interest as I believe this is a good idea of Wayne's to propose the manufacture of code 40 points. I personally like the idea of producing the whole system of code 40 as then it would be available to everyone and not just exclusively with the Easitrac system to members of the 2mm association.

Also reading with interest of the various contributors to this thread there seems to be a lot of theories as to what would work and what wouldn't work. As an engineer, the only way to find out is to produce a test batch of points, after taking on board all the comments and ideas, and thoroughly test them and tweak as necessary.

I wish you luck in your venture Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on January 02, 2012, 12:15:47 PM
Following the thread with interest, I understand that Easitrak has some appeal. Still, I think that N Gauge comes from 9 mm and that this is a very sensible gauge for track. But this is my very personal and probably continental biased point of view. For me the compromise lies more in the 1:148 scale that I'm prepared to accept for rolling stock.  ;)

Happy new year to all.
 :beers:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on January 04, 2012, 12:23:18 PM
I've been watching this topic with interest as I believe this is a good idea of Wayne's to propose the manufacture of code 40 points. I personally like the idea of producing the whole system of code 40 as then it would be available to everyone and not just exclusively with the Easitrac system to members of the 2mm association.

There is of course a simple solution to Easitrac availability - join the 2mm Association! Apart from Easitrac there is actually a lot of useful bits and pieces.

Still, I think that N Gauge comes from 9 mm and that this is a very sensible gauge for track. But this is my very personal and probably continental biased point of view. For me the compromise lies more in the 1:148 scale that I'm prepared to accept for rolling stock.

But 9.42 is actually closer to accurate (9.7mm) and makes no difference to running and look so much better, so I don't really see the advantage in stipulating 9mm for plain track...

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 04, 2012, 01:00:33 PM
The extra slop gave me issues with coupling alignment, in my testing. It also increased the chance of the body not running straight on tender drive locos.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on January 04, 2012, 04:11:43 PM
But 9.42 is actually closer to accurate (9.7mm) and makes no difference to running and look so much better, so I don't really see the advantage in stipulating 9mm for plain track...

Cheers, Mike
Actually my subtle point was that 9.0 mm is a good match for 8.96875 mm.
I fully understand that both scales 1:148 and 1:152 have a history in modelling UKs railways and that this is not going to change in the near future. And this is fine (unintended pun). But I'm not playing isolated in a cellar either. On plain 9 mm track the FS160 fiNe-scale models of by FREMO mates run, but they will not on 9.42 .  Currently I'm not prepared to tear all bridges down to my mates modelling continental railways. That's why it's 9 mm track gauge for me and if there would improved british looking track with this gauge be available I'd happily buy it. However, there is always the chance that eventually a small diorama with 9.42 mm track gets build in my cellar.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on January 04, 2012, 04:29:17 PM
On plain 9 mm track the FS160 fiNe-scale models of by FREMO mates run, but they will not on 9.42

Ah right - gotcha!

That is an even more niche market for your particular circumstances!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 04, 2012, 08:18:53 PM
Hi Guys,

I just had a very nice chat on the phone with Alan Smith, who did all of the design work on the 'Easitrac' range.

I have let him know my plans and he is now getting me in touch with the toolmaker.

I should have some CAD renders to show in a few days time :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 05, 2012, 10:14:22 AM
Ah right - gotcha!

That is an even more niche market for your particular circumstances!

Yep, FS160 is a tiny market sector in Britain and I suspect even a lot smaller than 2mmFS; after all it has little relevance to British 1:148 N gauge modelling but is more popular on the continent where their models are made to 1:160 scale.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 05, 2012, 02:45:16 PM
Hi Guys,

What type of sleeper (or should I say timbering) formation what you guys prefer, Square on to main road, or Equalised?

(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/sleeper type.jpg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on January 05, 2012, 03:12:56 PM
Square on looks better to my eye Wayne...... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: polo2k on January 05, 2012, 03:13:41 PM
I prefer them straight to the main then when suitable, perpendicular to the spur.
This minimises wonky sleepers.
Could you offer one type, then an option pack to remove certain sleepers and replace with the others to give owners the choice?

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 05, 2012, 03:52:44 PM
Definitely square of the two.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 07, 2012, 10:00:05 AM
Thanks Guys,

Looks like most (taking into account feedback from other forums) modellers would prefer 'Square On'.

It is possible to produce both, but it is more stock to hold. I will firstly produce 'Square on' and consider 'Equalized' After.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 11, 2012, 09:33:36 AM
Hi Guys,

I am contemplating offering 2 different Flangeway clearances so the modeller can choose. Either Large 1mm Flangeways, most RTR locos & stock can run through unmodified, or Finer 0.77mm Flangeways, RTR locos & stock will need back to backs adjusting with a Gauge.

(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/flangeway%20difference.jpg)

I would produce 2 sets of etched frogs for the different clearances. The modeller simply chooses which version they want when ordering from the website.

The check rails will be gauged for 1mm flangeway gap out of the box (positioned via the check rail chairs), the chairs would need cutting into 2 and trimmed for the finer flangeway gap.

This will double my tooling cost for producing etched frogs, but I believe this is the best way to go, what do you guys think?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: polo2k on January 11, 2012, 09:43:51 AM
Would there be any way to produce the larger of the 2 anf then offer inserts that would close up the tolerances. This way a new modeler can go for the safe bet, then when ready get started on improving wheels and at that time, install the filler pieces.

The thinking behind this would be that if I built the points to one standard on day one, I would rather live with it, than relay all my track with different frogs when I want the improvement.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on January 11, 2012, 09:53:17 AM
Wayne

Personally I would go for whatever works with the majority of new wheels (thouhg that will probably require you deciding on a target B-to-B).  I don't mind adjusting the odd wheelset B-to-B, but if I have to do it wholesale to get things to run through the finer tolerances then I probably wouldn't bother and I would just start changing to 2mm FS for everything.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: polo2k on January 11, 2012, 09:59:15 AM
Without extinguishing a theoretical bonfire here, is it possible that the very compromises that you are being forced to consider are what have defined the technical specifications?
If thats the case, then, as mentioned above, just pick a target BTB and get tooling I guess. as you have mentioned this latest decision has doubled your tooling costs.
While this may be an issue, I imagine that your business model will include retaillers, what about when you get wholesalers on board. Can you sustain sufficent margin to satisfy each stage within the chain (40%GP each soon mounts up!). What im trying to say is, make sure that once this venture grows, you can still make money serving the bigger players demanding higher discounts.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thos on January 11, 2012, 08:36:11 PM
While this may be an issue, I imagine that your business model will include retaillers, what about when you get wholesalers on board. Can you sustain sufficent margin to satisfy each stage within the chain (40%GP each soon mounts up!). What im trying to say is, make sure that once this venture grows, you can still make money serving the bigger players demanding higher discounts.

Don't overtrade!  I'd stick to web sales, perhaps with our trading members' shops if you can negotiate a decent deal, and then through such as Hattons.  I can't see selling through high street shops ever being profitable.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 11, 2012, 09:11:00 PM
Hi,

These would be sold directly via our website and probably not via retailers. This offers the best price to the end user. This is the business model I have used for the last 7 years with my current business (www.shoot35.com (http://www.shoot35.com)) and is a model which works well both for myself and my customers.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 12, 2012, 12:06:33 AM
This will double my tooling cost for producing etched frogs, but I believe this is the best way to go, what do you guys think?

The price of metal these days I'd have thought the tooling cost was going to be a fairly small part of it. nearly £40 + vat for a full sheet 10thou now, was only £17 about 3 years ago !
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 12, 2012, 10:16:03 AM
The tooling cost of etchings is far less than the tooling of the injection moulded parts, so its not all bad :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 19, 2012, 05:39:48 PM
Itís been a week since I have made a post but I am still working hard on this :)

I have received laser cut base samples this morning, but itís not that good. I chose Polypropylene when I really should have chose styrene. The result is slightly warped edges and melted areas.

I should get better results from styrene; however, I think laser cutting may not be the best option. I think I am going to get these milled instead.

The advantage of the laser cut base is that a turnout kit would not be 'handed' meaning it could be built as a left or right handed point.

Going milled, I believe I should keep a solid base and only mill the sleepers 2/3rds into the material. This will give much more strength but does mean that I will need to order both left and right hand versions.

I was going to meet up with the toolmaker tomorrow for the injection moulded plain track base and turnout chairs, but he has had to reschedule for Wednesday.

I will keep you updated :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 19, 2012, 07:10:16 PM
I should get better results from styrene; however, I think laser cutting may not be the best option.

Styrene is a nightmare to laser cut - the fumes are both dangerous and fog the laser lens without special filters. Some of the big outfits can do it. The sharpest cleanest I've seen laser cut is still wood. Rowmark also cleans well but is near impossible to glue so nigh on useless for a lot of things.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 19, 2012, 07:16:36 PM
Yeah I agree, I believe milling will be the best option for this.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 21, 2012, 04:03:51 PM
Hi Guys,

Bit of a visual post this time :)

Below is what I think is the finished CAD design for the plain track bases. I have modelled in chair detail like bolts:
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/track%20base.jpg)(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/track%20base01.jpg)

I am fairly happy with these but would like comments.

Attention then 'turns' to turnouts. My original design was a laser cut styrene base, but samples proved that laser cutting is probably not the best way to go due to warping and melting. Notice the holes for locating the chairs & rail.
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/laser cutting1.jpg)(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/lasercutreal.jpg)

So I decided that a solid milled base would prove much better and stronger. Below is the current design for the base. It is 1mm thick overall, with 0.3mm webbing:
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/milledbase.jpg)(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/milledbase02.jpg)

The holes are location holes for the chairs, the chairs have a pin in the bottom to fit into the holes on the base:
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/turnout chair.jpg)

Below are some images of what a completed turnout will look like. This is using 0.77mm flange way clearances:
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/turnout01.jpg)(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/turnout02.jpg)

And once ballasted:
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/turnout03.jpg)(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/turnout04.jpg)

So this is where I currently am. I am happy with the way it is coming along. I now need to think about how the turnout bases will finally be in terms geometry - lots of work still to do :)

Anyhow, let me know what you think so far, guys!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: polo2k on January 21, 2012, 04:58:29 PM
looking good!
the chairs look fairly heavy. might it be possible to use an underscale inner chair a la Code 55.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mr chapman on January 21, 2012, 05:49:49 PM
I like what I see  :) How long do you think before I can get my hands on a sample of normal track? How will the points work? I take it they are not sprung. So you would need a motor to hold them in place? If so will there be a hole drilled for a motor in the tie bar? I cant see one on the cad work. Im looking at this for my layout im planning.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thos on January 21, 2012, 06:54:45 PM
Looking very good if surprisingly chunky.  I would urge you to have a range of diamond crossings to match the turnouts, giving standard separation between tracks.  Those that want to have a different separation should add plain track or do some cutting.

That is what lets Fasttracks down.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 22, 2012, 09:26:02 AM
looking good!
the chairs look fairly heavy. might it be possible to use an underscale inner chair a la Code 55.

The chairs represent bullhead rail chairs and are the same size as the easitrac chairs. I am meeting up with Alan Smith (designer of Easitrac) and the toolmaker on Wednesday, so any issues with scale and clearances will be discussed

I like what I see  :) How long do you think before I can get my hands on a sample of normal track? How will the points work? I take it they are not sprung. So you would need a motor to hold them in place? If so will there be a hole drilled for a motor in the tie bar? I cant see one on the cad work. Im looking at this for my layout im planning.

I will ask the toolmaker for a lead time on Wednesday, I really am not sure. I have experience with ordering IM tooling for plastics and rubber, lead times can range from 21 days up to 2 - 3 months.

The switch rails for the turnouts are not sprung, no. You will need a slow action type point motor or servo, or even a manual 'wire in tube' type. Seep do a 'self latching' point motor, but I think it maybe too harsh for the somewhat delicate nature of these turnouts. We can pre drill the tiebar hole.

Looking very good if surprisingly chunky.  I would urge you to have a range of diamond crossings to match the turnouts, giving standard separation between tracks.  Those that want to have a different separation should add plain track or do some cutting.

That is what lets Fasttracks down.

It may look chunky because of CAD, these are the same dimensions as the 2mm Easitrac rail & chairs. Others have said that I should match peco geometry and turnout sizes. I can do this but would there be any patent issues i wonder?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: polo2k on January 22, 2012, 09:35:22 AM
I suppose that the template and geometry is simply a ratio of the divergence, I guess that means that only the maths is patentable.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on January 22, 2012, 09:40:17 AM
It's all looking very impressive to me, and I can see a lot of hard work has gone into this.

As a side line (and I'm sure there wouldn't be a huge demand at the moment), but it would be great if someone made '3rd Rail' components.  I don't know anywhere that makes the chairs/insulators to the rail.  Hopefully more 3rd rail EMU's will be considered by the manufacturers. Anyway, this will probably end up being another debate for another topic really.  :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: polo2k on January 22, 2012, 09:50:06 AM
Maybe it could be possible to make some fittings that go on the sleeper ends and provide the chair. kinda like an add on pack
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on January 22, 2012, 10:21:16 AM
That's what I meant Ash - I should have said that really.  :)  I'm sure the modeller could buy the track, sleepers, and the 3rd Rail fittings, and then drill a pin hole into the sleepers to slot in the fittings.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 22, 2012, 11:41:46 AM
This maybe possible to produce with flatbottom rail and nickel or brass etched chairs. It would require soldering, however.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mustermark on January 22, 2012, 01:01:06 PM
I would certainly be in the market for about 8 meters of third rail in code 40 along with the chairs required. I think that would look great.

The alternative right now is code 55 and some superglue!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Roy L S on January 22, 2012, 01:05:46 PM
Hi Wayne

Like many I have been coming back to this subject regularly and have read your updates and people's thoughts with great interest.

The progress to date looks very promising indeed.

I can only repeat what I said earlier in the thread. Simplicity is key. Even if not quite a "shake the box and it is made" product,  it all has to go together in a user-friendly and simple way. If people find it easy to use, and the product works as well as it looks, they will come back and get more, if it requires too much effort, they will likely not. An effective method of joining rails needs to be considered, I cannot see N modellers in general wanting to use wire droppers every 18 inches or less.

Once you are up and running, it may be an idea to release a "test" or starter pack (Like 2mm SA do with "Easitrack"), covering all the basic assembly requirements, so that people can have a go, and hopefully see how easy it is to use, and how good the results.

I look forward to your further updates.

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on January 22, 2012, 07:11:14 PM
Hi
The CAD images look promising.
Probably I have missed it, what geometry are the points? Will they resemble an actual prototype or will it be a general representation?

Thanks.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 22, 2012, 08:49:43 PM
Peco have or had patents on the way their code 55 is built. You'd need to go read it but I believe its on the embedded rail trick.

As for what to match - if its aimed at accurate modelling then I'd suggest the prototype - so akin to easitrac UK spacings, code 40 rail and probably 'correct' pointwork (ie a B8 or similar).

The pinholes and plug in chairs are a genius idea, that really takes away all the nasty lining and gauging work.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: idlemoor on January 23, 2012, 12:42:13 PM
It's quick and easy to do an online patent search.  It appears that Peco never had many patents and they've all expired.  In particular the Code 55 one, EP0059107 of 1982 -- Owner: Sydney Charles Pritchard, Title: Small-gauge model railway track -- ceased on 23 February 1998. 
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=EP&NR=0059107&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=EP&NR=0059107&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP)

"A small-gauge model railway track comprises a sleeper base (2) moulded of a piastics material with sleeper portions (3) to which metal rails (1), each having a section including a bottom base portion, defined by flanges or enlargements (5) along opposite sides of the bottom of a rail, embedded in the plastics material and an intermediate base portion defined by flanges or enlargements (6) projecting from and along opposite sides of the rail between the bottom base and the top running surfaces (7) of the rail, the rails (1) being secured to the sleeper base (2) with the undersurfaces of the flanges or enlargements (6) of the intermediate base portion substantially level with the upper surfaces of the sleeper portions (3)."

And there's a nice diagram.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 23, 2012, 02:35:09 PM
OK, in that case I beleive I will match peco geometry for the first run of bases. I can then add more prototypical bases, such and a B8, in due course.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on January 23, 2012, 02:38:41 PM
Personally I wouldn't worry about matching Peco geometry - I can't see that people who want Peco geometry are your target market.  If they want finer scale track then prototype geometry should be the way to go.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mustermark on January 23, 2012, 04:06:12 PM
I agree Red_Death.  Prototype is the aim for a new entry into the market with real-scale rail height.  A Peco me-too isn't going to find the right niche.

I would definitely aim for as prototypical as practicable.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: moogle on January 23, 2012, 04:41:38 PM
I've been following this debate with some interest. Some of the suggestions would make things very complicated and simple is best, at least to start with. Love the idea of the holes for the chairs. Now thats what I call idiotproof! A track kit thats complete, no gauge rollers or anything extra to have to buy!  8) With regards to angles, I would have a 'matching' geometry like Peco do. This would make it easier for any one wishing to go from propriety track to a scale one like you're proposing. After all, modellers went from Peco code 80 to code 55 found it easy because the geometry was the same. In other words, it was familiar. If there is a degree of familiarity then you'll interest more people who are looking for a better scale track but don't want to go down 2FS route. Those who want things exact to fit will 'bash' and 'shoehorn' them in just as they do now with other brands. Those who are fussier still will probably go 2FS. I would use fishplates though as the absence of them will deter some people. What you've done so far looks the biz.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on January 23, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Moogle,

What do you mean by a matching geometry? Do you mean the same as Peco? I can't see why that matters, in fact quite the opposite I can see why it would people off.

It isn't to me a case of being fussy, but a case of why would you not just follow the prototype (although at least one of the Peco geometries is fairly close to one of the prototype angles).

As an aside - would square pegs and holes help make the point chair location even more foolproof?

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: moogle on January 23, 2012, 05:12:24 PM
I mean matching as in if you have points at 15 and 20 degree angles, you need crossings etc to match.
Thats what I meant by like Peco. I didn't mean copy them, you want prototypical after all!

Square holes is a good idea but would it not make inserting the rail harder on bends as round holes give a little 'pivotable' movement I'd have thought. Not that I'd know as I've never built track from parts before!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: moogle on January 23, 2012, 05:19:09 PM
Sorry! Forgot to mention, with regards to the 'like Peco' thing above, I meant as in lengths of items too.
So that you know things will fit.

What I meant by fussy is the people to whom even a complete, new system like Wayne is proposing will not be good enough!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 23, 2012, 07:50:58 PM
Thanks for the input guys, lots to think about.

The good thing is the only part in the kit that determines the geometry is the base, so I can get both types machined to cater for all needs.

@ Red Death, a sqaure hole can not easily be milled @ this scale, and the flow of the rail on its 'path' will determine the chairs angle.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mr chapman on January 23, 2012, 08:07:24 PM
What sorts of intructions will these come with? Can you supply a wiring diagram that will show clearly how to wire them for polarity switching?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 23, 2012, 08:22:13 PM
Hi Mr Chapman,

I am glad you have pointed this out. I will provide full assembly instructions and wiring ( I am used to manual writing from my camera accessory company). I also want to have video tutorials on the website.

Here are a few manuals I have written & illustrated:

http://www.shoot35.com/downloads/pdf/SGblade%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf (http://www.shoot35.com/downloads/pdf/SGblade%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf)

http://www.shoot35.com/downloads/pdf/Shoot35%20CINEbox%20Matte%20Box%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf (http://www.shoot35.com/downloads/pdf/Shoot35%20CINEbox%20Matte%20Box%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf)

http://www.shoot35.com/downloads/pdf/CINEfocus%20r2%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf (http://www.shoot35.com/downloads/pdf/CINEfocus%20r2%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf)

http://www.shoot35.com/downloads/pdf/FLEXIgear%20Instruction%20Flyer.pdf (http://www.shoot35.com/downloads/pdf/FLEXIgear%20Instruction%20Flyer.pdf)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mr chapman on January 23, 2012, 08:41:02 PM
Top stuff. Well thats kept me happy  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 24, 2012, 03:03:59 PM
Hi Guys,

I have trimmed back the webbing, is this any better?

(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/turnout05.jpg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 24, 2012, 04:54:40 PM
Hi Guys,

I have trimmed back the webbing, is this any better?

([url]http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/turnout05.jpg[/url])


If its like easitrac it'll vanish into the scenery anyway once ballasted.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 25, 2012, 04:31:39 PM
OK Guys, good news and bad.....

Good news: Today I went up to London to meet Alan Smith (designer of Easitrac) & the toolmaker behind the mould. I had an interesting time; Alan is a very helpful and knowledgeable fellow. He told me how the Easitrac project began and progressed, and I got to see the active parts of the mould, including the teeny tiny inserts that make the 'Dow Mac' branding on the concrete sleepers! The toolmaker also made the mould for the 3mm Scale version, and I see this also.

Bad News: The toolmaker is very busy right now; he advised that he could not start work on making the tool for 6 months :( So unfortunately this part of the project will be on hold until then. He said the actual lead time once he starts work is about 4 weeks.

But this does give me ample time to perfect the rest of the design, the turnout bases & geometry and the etch frog assemblies.

So, a little disappointing with the lead time, but he is most certainly the man for the job!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: intraclast on January 26, 2012, 12:28:43 PM
This is my first post on this forum so firstly "hello".

I've been watching the progress of this product with interest. To me, whilst its a shame about the delay but not the end of the world.  One thing that would be really helpful for us potential customers would be if you were able to produce a parameters file for your track for XtrkCAD and similar software. That way we can start to think about how we would use FiNetrax.  Obviously you would need to finalise your geometries etc first.

Just a thought

Thanks

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thos on January 26, 2012, 01:24:41 PM
I believe that the consensus was that he should follow Peco, so you could draw your plan using Peco-55.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 26, 2012, 01:37:14 PM
I believe that the consensus was that he should follow Peco, so you could draw your plan using Peco-55.

Consensus implies an agreement - I don't see one at all to I would disagree with you.

We shall see what comes out - he who pays gets to decide what is made. One of the good things about running a kit business - the one you want is always available 8)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 30, 2012, 04:38:58 PM
Hi Guys,

Good call. Providing software files to match the fiNetrax bases is a great idea and something I believe I can do once I decide on the geometry. As 'EtchedPixels' suggests, I have not completely decided on this, but I will probably produce turnout bases to match Peco code 55 geometry, and also more prototypical bases, so that I have covered all 'bases' so to speak :)

Good news is that I have now had quotes back from the toolmaker, and they are within budget (YAY). I have even managed to negotiate a 'family tool' for the turnout chairs, visions with a location pin, and without - again within budget. The chairs without pin will be great if you wish to create turnouts to your own geometry and templates (with the aid of gauges).

So onwards with the project - I should have milled base samples this week, still waiting for quotes on the etching company for the frog assemblies (been nearly 3 weeks).
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on January 30, 2012, 04:45:33 PM
I believe that the consensus was that he should follow Peco, so you could draw your plan using Peco-55.

Personally I don't think there is consensus (or if there is not in the way you mean!) - I am with Alan on this as I would disagree with you as well.

As I said earlier I don't see the point in a me-too copy of Peco geometry unless they actually match something in the real world - I just don't see that being the target market.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thos on January 30, 2012, 05:03:39 PM
I only meant for the purposes of track planning in XtrkCAD.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 30, 2012, 05:08:07 PM
In terms of cost, it should be fine to produce both types of bases. It is more time in designing than actual manufacturing costs. The company that will mill the bases can nest different designs on one sheet, so I just reorder what sells...

Regarding prototypical bases, what formations would you guys like to see?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on January 30, 2012, 07:32:04 PM
Am I right in assuming that the point bases will be rigid straight?

Regarding prototypical bases, what formations would you guys like to see?
Wishlist? You'll probably see all kind of designs mentioned in due course. I think an A6 for yards and B8 would be a good start.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thos on January 30, 2012, 07:56:22 PM
I concur.  B8 and B10 for me, but A6 will probably sell better.  I would also like curved turnouts, but that raises the question of what curve radii.  I would re-emphasise that every turnout should have a matched diamond crossing.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on January 30, 2012, 09:03:23 PM

So onwards with the project - I should have milled base samples this week, still waiting for quotes on the etching company for the frog assemblies (been nearly 3 weeks).
[/quote]

Hi Wayne
I can recommend PPD etching for good fast service and quoting.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 30, 2012, 10:27:51 PM
I'll second the PPD recommendation - its also who I use.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 31, 2012, 09:14:57 AM
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the contact, they look promising. I will get in touch today.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on January 31, 2012, 11:08:22 AM
In terms of point geometry I would look at what the 2mm Association provides and the P4 track company as indicators.

Longer term you might want to think of flat bottom turnouts, which would be very cool (but pretty long!).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 09, 2012, 04:37:42 PM
Hey,

Little update. I have received samples of both a milled base and also an etched 1 in 6 frog :)

Bellow shows the base sample:
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/base01.jpg)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/base02.jpg)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/base03.jpg)

This version is before I trimmed back on the sleeper ends. I am happy though, its clean and the accuracy of the locating holes are great - I can really see this working! The depth of the webbing was not cut at the right depth (communication error) so the webbing is thicker than it should be.

The price qouted for these is a little high, however. I beleive I am going to look into purchasing a CNC router and milling these myself. This means I can keep the cost down and also remove the need for ordering high numbers of bases. It also means I can prototype new bases quick and easily.

The etched frog did not work so well and its my fault to be honest. I have tried to make the frog from 2 layers, one 22 thou thickness layer and the other an 18 thou thick layer (put together to make code 40). I liked the idea of only needing 2 layers, and this seemed cleaner and easier to assemble. The problem is, this is really too thick a material for such a fine etch with thin lines, so the rail has been etched away so too thin and detail lost (by the way, the etch samples were done for me free by PPD, great guys):

(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/etch top.jpg)
(http://www.budgetcameragear.com/v/modelrailwaytrackimages/etch bottom.jpg)

No worries, I am going to change and use 3 layers, the top layer from 10 thou, and the middle and bottom from 15 thou. I beleive this will get us the results we need :)

In the meantime, the moulder has called me today to discuss the process and pricing, all seems good there.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on February 09, 2012, 04:42:28 PM
A tip on here for three layer etching and assembly I learned from Colin Allbright - etch holes through the solid parts of the middle layer so that there is somewhere for the glue/solder to go and so that all three layers are bonded as one.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: polo2k on February 09, 2012, 05:11:55 PM
You mentioned that the bases might be more expensive than you thought.

might it be viable to cast a resin mould of a correct base, then cast yourself. you could use a vacuum or centrifuge system to ensure it works as intended.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 09, 2012, 05:17:55 PM
Hi Ash,

To be honest I have no idea :D It's not a process I am familiar with but I am interested in the idea and what exactly would be involved? The base would need to be black ABS or styrene for the chairs to solvent/glue onto.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on February 09, 2012, 05:22:58 PM
It doesn't need to be ABS or styrene to glue the chairs, but my guess is that resin is too brittle.

For info Wayne - the 2mm milled bases retail at £5.50 each which gives you a benchmark to judge what you have been quoted.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: BernardTPM on February 09, 2012, 05:24:05 PM
Resin isn't ABS and I suspect over the length of a point there could be some dimensional differences from batch to batch. I'd stick with the milling.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on February 09, 2012, 05:25:23 PM
Also distortion is a problem with resin and soft moulds.

Other choice is 3D print. The weird world where adding holes to your model makes it cheaper !
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 09, 2012, 05:34:53 PM
Thanks guys,

With a tunrout kit price point of about £9 - £10 ex VAT, spending £5.50 on only the base is a no go, unfortunately. I have got quotes from Alan Smith (he mills the Easitrac bases) and even with a large quantity the price is not attractive.

I have just youtubed the soft resin moulding technque, although it looks fun it doesn't look suitable for this.

I still beleive milling myself would be the best option.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on February 09, 2012, 05:40:25 PM
Personally I think your price point is way, way too low! You are talking about price comparable with Peco, but to my mind that is crazy - you can't hope to compete on the sorts of volumes that Peco churn out with tooling that is paid for.

I would have expected to pay more in the region of £15 (min) - 30 (max).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: polo2k on February 09, 2012, 05:51:19 PM
if you had to use styrene, then injection mounding would be the future, and that just silly money once you consider the tooling for each design.

I was thinking something like:
polish the part with mold release,
build a lego box, big enough to hold the base, using a sheet of styrene as a base.
use tacky way to hold the base in place, then pour casting resin over it.
once hardened deconstruct the lego and remove the styrene base and original part.
Then make a new base to replace the styrene with a pouring hole in it.
Then you are ready to cast.

for better detail, you can place the part in a vacuum chamber after pouring (these can be made with old fridge compressors to generate vacuum), when you apply the vacuum, all the air bubbles will gas off.
Another option is to build a machine that spins the mold quite quickly (must be balanced) then the heavier material that has been poured will gravitate towards the outside.

If you want to do a low cost experiment, then a certian vibrating product held against the mold will help release air bubbles and compact the material. the adjustable nature on some of these helps matching the frequency to maximise effectiveness.
Crikey that was 'interesting' to phrase


Might it be possible to make a universal base that only has webbing down one side so it is flexible. Then you could sell different jigs to shape the base, once the rails were bonded in they would hopefully hold the base in position on removal.


On another topic, you mentioned that your a camera related man, do you ever get any DSLR bodies for sale ever.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 09, 2012, 06:07:03 PM
Hi Ash,

Thanks for the details, much appreciated!

No, we only design and sell accessories for DSLR's rather than sell the bodies themselves.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 09, 2012, 06:10:43 PM
Not sure if the data will be useful, but I have started a new poll asking what price you would be willing to pay for a turnout kit :P
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 13, 2012, 04:29:55 PM
Hi Guys,

Well, I've done it :) I've purchased a CNC mill/router which I will take delivery of this week for milling the turnout bases. Little bit of a learning curve to get her running but should work out good for what we need!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on February 13, 2012, 04:36:54 PM
Very exciting Wayne!  Have you used one before?  I haven't used one since I was at school. ;D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: moogle on February 13, 2012, 04:58:19 PM
Ooh! Sounds like production is just round the corner!  :thumbsup:
Never had things like that at my school.
Worth too much and would have been nicked in no time!  :smiley-laughing:
I look forward to seeing your 1st models.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 13, 2012, 05:25:28 PM
Hey guys,

Not used one before, no. I have a 3D printer with 3 axis stepper motors in a similar fashion, but that is a 'click print and go' afair.

The CNC mill has a much bigger learning curve, both hardware and software but I am confident and done a fair bit of research already. The hardest part is finding the best method of holding down such thin sheets of styrene without it moving or lifting....double sided tape where are you? :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 16, 2012, 07:35:53 PM
Hi Guys,

New poll added 'What price would you pay for 1 yard (915mm) of fiNetrax plain line bullhead flexi track?'.

The CNC mill arrived and I now have it up and running. I will need to experiment with it to get good results, but hope to have some sample turnout bases to show soon :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 21, 2012, 09:16:03 AM
Hey,

Well, I have had the CNC mill for a few days and and starting to get good results. I am waiting for 1mm and 2mm diameter milling cutters to arrive, as well as a few material choices. I am enjoying this!

I am glad I made the plung to get the CNC mill, it allows me the freedom to churn out and prototype new turnout bases very quickly.

More to follow :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on February 21, 2012, 09:20:55 AM
I'm jealous that you've got a CNC machine, but I'm equally excited to see your project work out for you. :D  It's great to hear about it on here.  Good luck with the next stage!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ingleborough on February 22, 2012, 09:49:36 PM
My comments about your projectare;
1 Great idea.
2 Turnouts  I feel the depth left for ballasting is not workable and suggest doubling the depth. This will have knock on effects, the plain track sleeper depth will have to be increased to suit; and all items will be stronger and more suitable for portable and exhibition layouts.
3 Flat bottom rail track and turnouts are also essential.
4 A range of points with switches of larger radius than currently found with a rrange of parts to produce custom turnouts
5 A well designed simple and reliable system to motorise the turout with slow acting and solenoid motors, in the case of solenoids the tiebar assembly will require to be man enough to handle the jolts from the motor without falling apart rapidly.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 23, 2012, 02:36:31 PM
Hiya,

The thickness of the sleepers will be 1mm with 0.3 - 0.35mm webbing, giving around 0.65mm of ballasting depth.

The investment for bullhead rail chairs and the like will be close to £9000 plus, I would need to see how if/when I recoupe the costs involve before I could even think about flatbottom or concrete sleepers, unfortunately.

Components will be available seperately for custom turnouts, I am even thinking of providing a service to mill custom bases from user templot files, with pre drilled holes for chairs.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: NTrain on February 23, 2012, 08:53:27 PM
What milling machine have you got.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 24, 2012, 11:38:47 AM
Hi,

Its a chinese 3040 from ebay, I am very impressed with it.

Below is a test base I have milled with it. This is too thick @ 1.5mm, it will be 1mm thick, just waiting for material to arrive, what do you think?

(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/mymilledbase01.jpg)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/mymilledbase02.jpg)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/mymilledbase03.jpg)

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on February 24, 2012, 01:47:18 PM
Looks good to me - and as its milled from strong material I assume its also quite rigid in the planes that matter ?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 24, 2012, 03:43:10 PM
Thanks, yes it's stronger than I thought it would be, slightly thicker than Easitrac milled bases...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mustermark on February 24, 2012, 04:34:45 PM
Looks very good indeed. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 25, 2012, 09:01:17 AM
YAY, its my Birthday Today (bloody 30!) and going to Model World show in Brighton - COOL! :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on February 25, 2012, 09:56:22 AM
Happy birthday then, enjoy the day and your youth.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on February 25, 2012, 09:59:11 AM
Happy birthday! You've beaten me to 30 by a few months. ;D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on February 25, 2012, 10:05:29 AM
30........you're only a whipper snapper.......... ;D
Have a great day........ :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: moogle on February 25, 2012, 11:23:02 AM
30........you're only a whipper snapper.......... ;D
Have a great day........ :thumbsup:

I'll 2nd that! Have a good one!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Southernboy on February 25, 2012, 11:51:12 AM
Firstly to say Happy Birthday!! Hope you have a good one.

And secondly - I seem to have missed the last few updates on progress, and have to say this just gets more exciting by the minute :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 27, 2012, 03:27:03 PM
Hiya,

Some more test bases, a curved turnout and a crossing base:

(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/mymilledbase04.jpg)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/mymilledbase05.jpg)

Still the wrong thickness @ 1.5mm, but 1mm thick material should arrive tomorrow :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Joe 90 on February 28, 2012, 10:42:15 AM
Hi Wayne

As an engineer, of sorts, this is really becoming extremely interesting.

At the risk of thread hijacking, and I apologise, I have so many questions as to how you use your milling machine. Having never used a milling machine before, is it software based? I assume once you have 'drawn' your design off it whizzes, similar to a plotter, and cuts the material of which I suppose is clamped or whatever to the base. Do you then have to change bits to drill the holes for the chairs?
Also what is the material you are using?

Anyhow I look forward to your updates with interest.

Regards
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 28, 2012, 11:18:19 AM
Hi,

No problem, happy that you're interested :)

I bought a program called Vcarve Pro, this is used to create toolpaths from shapes or dxf files imported from external cad software. It gives you a 3D preview of what to expect at the milling stage. Once happy, this exports the toolpaths in G code format, I then import this into another program, Mach3, which understands the G code and controls the CNC machine. I export each tool (a 2mm milling bit and 1mm milling bit) as a seperate file, change the tool, then run the next file.

Clamping the material (black styrene sheet) down is the biggest challenge. Trusty old double sided tape seems to be the key, I am going to be buying in sheet material with a protective film on one side, so the double sided tape will go on this side, and will peel off with the protective film once finish.

I'll try and post a video tomorrow, time lapse of the process :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Joe 90 on February 28, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
Excellent.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 28, 2012, 03:35:39 PM
Hi Guys,

In terms of the etched frog design, I received new samples last week. The etching is much better this time, however, its very difficult to solder the 3 layers together reliably and the finish if the Nickel does not match well with the normal bulhead rail.

To that end, I have decided to scrap the etch frog idea. Instead, we can provide pre bent wing rails and pre soldered V, which then locate into the base holes like the rest of the rail. This would actually improve the appearance over an etched frog.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karhedron on February 29, 2012, 09:55:44 AM
To that end, I have decided to scrap the etch frog idea. Instead, we can provide pre bent wing rails and pre soldered V, which then locate into the base holes like the rest of the rail. This would actually improve the appearance over an etched frog.
That sounds good. This is probably the most crucial part of the point to get right and also the area that I would feel least confident to tackle. I look forward to seeing this part of the solution.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 02, 2012, 01:33:59 PM
Hi Guys,

As promised, here is a video showing the milling of a turnout base, in this case a base that matches a peco code 55 short turnout:

Milling fiNetrax N Gauge turnout base.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=374ITh7n0LE#)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Fratton on March 02, 2012, 04:21:06 PM
Great video, great to see how it's done!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Joe 90 on March 02, 2012, 05:14:41 PM
Excellent video Wayne.

Downside to it is I now want one of those machines!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Fratton on March 02, 2012, 05:17:27 PM
Joe 90, that has given me an idea, dub the video with the joe 90 theme that tue goes well with construction or time lapse filming,,,,,
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 02, 2012, 05:19:41 PM
Excellent video Wayne.

Downside to it is I now want one of those machines!


hehe, this is the one I bought (from this seller):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190616259144?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/190616259144?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)

Machine = £1080
Vcarve Pro = £395 (although cut down versions are available)
Mach3 = £115
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Long Line on March 08, 2012, 06:43:30 AM
Wayne, a most enthralling project this.

On the subject of making V's have you considered doing as 2FS does with a pre-milled jig to hold two pieces of code 40 in the correct position whilst soldered together?... or are you envisaging a 'non soldering based system'?

Would be very interested in discussing the finer standards you have suggested on here further offline, as i have been doing investigations into this for some time now...

cheers
Mark
(markhenshaw@tiscali.co.uk)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 08, 2012, 08:14:12 AM
Hi Mark,

Yes I will be selling jigs but hope to have the V's presoldered for the turnout kits.

Feel free to PM me :)

As we now have to wait until August for injection moulding samples, I will be laying this to rest until then, really.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JosephP on April 18, 2012, 09:52:11 AM
I was linked to this from RMWeb (Scale148 thread).

Looks really interesting and I would certainly prefer to buy this rather than Peco 55/80.

If it went well, would Peco replicate it? Perhaps not. With modern CAD technology they could easily get as far as Wayne has. But their assembly techniques are very old-fashioned and they would have to make major investment there to produce ready-to-lay turnouts. Peco Code 75 for OO/HO has never killed off SMP.

If one wanted ready-to-lay turnouts to this standard, it would probably be better to go to another manufacturer, keep to their existing geometry and produce new injection-moulded bases compatible with their assembly machinery.

If it was a question of a new manufacturer raining on Wayne's parade, I would be far more concerned with the potential of Bachmann/GF or even Dapol.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on April 18, 2012, 09:42:29 PM
If it went well, would Peco replicate it?

Code 40  I doubt - code 55 with proper sleeper spacing I imagine will happen one day when they feel there is enough leakage to rival products.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JosephP on April 19, 2012, 11:50:25 AM
Perhaps. But then why have they not produced Code75 (or 83) to 00 standards (ignoring Individulay which they have never really promoted)? Even there, they have not felt their position to be sufficiently threatened to justify the expense (unlike the Code 83 American HO).

As Wayne is only planning to sell direct, not via shops, I think that Peco would continue to follow their current policy. Maximum return from minimum investment.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JosephP on April 19, 2012, 12:34:04 PM
As a newcomer to this thread (and indeed to N Gauge Forum), I have only just got through reading all the thread. I still have not managed to work out how the "quotes" work. But I would like to comment on a few points made - particularly the geometry.

1) Why, oh why seek to match Peco geometry? Nobody is going to make up a crossover consisting of one Peco point and one FiNetrax point. If they want to extend an existing Peco layout with FiNetrax (which they probably should not as the running of wheelsets will probably be duff over one or the other), they will do this on plain track.

Those of us who were in the model trade two decades back will remember the long legal case between A2E and LGB about track geometry. LGB claimed that patents/designs were being copied. It was, after a long time, ruled that geometry is a natural phenomenon that can not be exclusive to one producer. Even though they won, A2E were so fed up with the cost/delay of the whole thing that they stopped producing anyway.

2) I am sure that some adequate railjoiners can be found from existing suppliers. But wire droppers should be used as well for reliable running - particularly with DCC.

3) Tooling costs (and delays) are the issue but Wayne seems to be in good hands on this. There is a case for jumping in straight away and doing the most common turnouts (B6) in injection-moulded base as well - leaving just the less frequently needed pointwork to produce by milling. But perhaps he is wise in seeking to mill all turnouts initially so that he builds up a bit of experience as to what the true level of demand might be and can incorporate modifications if necessary.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on May 02, 2012, 02:48:04 PM
Hi Guys,

I haven't posted in a while so I thought I would post a little update.

Tooling on plain line bases and turnout chairs is to commence end of July so just around the corner. In the mean time I am looking into getting the crossing assembly (V & Wing rails) lost wax cast in nickel silver, with pegs in the bottom to locate directly into the turnout base. I am going to be getting the crossing assembly 3D printed as the master pattern to make a rubber mould to cast multiple wax copies ready for nickel casting. This would look much better than my original idea of using an etched crossing, be much stronger and make assembly of the kit very easy.

I will update with pictures when I get the parts :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JosephP on May 02, 2012, 05:15:18 PM
Great news, Wayne. I think you have a really sound design there which will please many. Apart from being easier to assemble, it will also make it easy to solder a dropper wire to the crossing before assembly.

What are you planning about fixing switch rails to tiebars?

Have you decided yet about geometry? I think that most of us will be more interested in types that reflect the prototype - particularly no6 and no8.

Hope that you will post update on RMWeb as well although they seem to be under attack from cyber spammers again today.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on May 03, 2012, 01:22:42 PM
Thanks.

Regarding tie bars, I am in 2 minds. I was thinking about one piece of 2mm wide by 0.8mm thick PCB strip to solder each switch rail to. My concern here would be if the soldered joints would last over time.

My other option would be 1.5mm wide by 0.5mm thick carbon fibre with 0.3mm holes milled in to allow 2 pivoting pins (like Norman Solomon does in the Right Track DVD), so the switch rails solder to the pins.

Regarding geometry, I will stick to the prototype. B5, 6 & 8 would be good, with matching diamond crossings.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JosephP on May 04, 2012, 11:59:30 AM
Thanks, Wayne for that update.

I'm not sure if a B5 diamond is that useful. I will also be needing some single slips and double slips to match B6.

Even in 4mm, I have always found it a complete nightmare to get soldered joints to work on a tie-bar. So I really like the sound of the pivoting pin arrangement.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on May 05, 2012, 09:44:06 AM
Hi Joseph,

What issues did you have with a soldered joint? The advantage I can see with a solid soldered joint vs a pivot is that, with a pivot, there is more chance of the switch rail bending - meaning the end of the switch rail moves with the tie bar but the mid length drags on the slide chairs. This does not happen as much with a solid soldered joint.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JosephP on May 06, 2012, 06:48:27 AM
Hi Wayne,
I always found it difficult to get the switchrail soldered firmly enough to the tie-bar. An awkward job in the restricted space of 4mm let alone 2mm. I have had several switchrails come loose from tie-bars (not just my own but ones bought from an established producer) and it is really difficult to resolder them in situ.
I am interested by what you say about rail dragging on the slide chairs. I wonder whether this is what put strain on the soldered joints. Problem is probably worse with BH rail which does not have as much lateral stiffness as FB.
Regards,

Joseph
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on June 11, 2012, 11:51:53 AM
Hi Wayne,
First of all - good luck with this project, it's very exciting.  I was considering doing something similar with for my layout (I have built my own CNC mill) and using easitrack parts.  I'll probably wait see how you progress with your one-piece frogs now!

I have a couple of suggestions, if I may:

1) For accurately laminating your etched frogs you could mill out an aluminium assembly jig which could hold several frogs.  Then use solder paste between the layers, clamp it all together with spring loaded bolts (to ensure consistent clamping force in the face of differential thermal expansion) and pop the whole thing in the oven.  This should ensure that you can batch produce frogs with good alignment between layers.

2) As you are milling point bases, why do you need to decide on geometry?  If you could write a little script (Alan may be able to help here judging by his approach to 3d printing with programmatic design) to import layouts from templot and produce the CAM script that would allow any geometry for people who want it.  Taking this even further you could even mill several points on a single base (up to the size of your mill).  This is what I plan to do for my layout.  I can see that you might want to have some stock of the most common options.  However, I imagine that for most people having to wait a few days or weeks for parts shouldn't be an issue - we have been waiting for ~20 years after all - so you could just mill on demand. 

Best of luck with the project - I'm watching with baited breath.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 11, 2012, 10:47:10 PM
Hi Rabs,

Thanks for your suggestions.

I beleive the etched frog idea is out the window completely as I am concentrating on lost wax cast frogs now...

I do plan on providing a custom milling service from user templot files, an automated script for that would be lovely, completely over my head though :D

The toolmaker contacted me and told me he is ahead of schedule, so hopefully that will push the project forward slightly :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 14, 2012, 02:24:12 PM
Good news, just got off the phone with the toolmaker, he is ready to start work on the turnout chairs and I have put down the deposit (30%) so we are now go 6 weeks ahead of schedule! We should have moulded samples (chairs with location pins) end of July!

I am still working on getting the frog/crossing assembly lost wax cast, but using 3D printed frogs in resin as the sacrificial pattern instead of wax....
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 28, 2012, 09:23:19 AM
Another little update.

I have finalised drawings for the turnout chairs and plain line tooling, work is now underway :D

The company I am indending to use for lost wax cast frogs/crossings say that they don't see any issues in casting these even though they are very small.

I have purchased a DLP based 3D printer in kit form but this won't ship until August, I indend on using this 3D printer to print resin frogs that will be used as the sacrificial master patterns in the lost wax casting process. Removing the need to make a rubber mould and make wax copies should result in better definition and detail.

Oh, and I have now purchased 2 domain names which will become my new webshop for any model railway products I produce, including fiNetrax, the addresses are:

www.britishfinescale.com (http://www.britishfinescale.com)
www.britishfinescale.co.uk (http://www.britishfinescale.co.uk)

Nothing is uploaded here yet, but I am working on the website now :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on June 28, 2012, 01:39:03 PM
I have purchased a DLP based 3D printer in kit form but this won't ship until August, I indend on using this 3D printer to print resin frogs that will be used as the sacrificial master patterns in the lost wax casting process.

Interesting - are you not better off using a commercial 3D printer eg Shapeways or Finelines?  That saves your investment in the printer (plus I have yet to see anything better than the outputs from Finelines).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 28, 2012, 02:04:11 PM
Hiya,

The printer is an investment for my camera accessory business also, for making prototypes etc.

Outsourcing the printing would cost too much per part.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 28, 2012, 02:09:35 PM
Interesting - are you not better off using a commercial 3D printer eg Shapeways or Finelines?  That saves your investment in the printer (plus I have yet to see anything better than the outputs from Finelines).

Cheers, Mike

The big advantage of having your own printer (and why the kitchen table is covered in bits of one) is that you get stuff back promptly.  You also control things like alignment so you can do clever tricks like laying the flat base surface on the bed itself.

Materialwise the extrusion printers are also vastly cheaper than the other types.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 28, 2012, 03:29:01 PM
Just for interest, this is the printer I have bought and am awaiting delivery for:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/b9creations/b9creator-a-high-resolution-3d-printer (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/b9creations/b9creator-a-high-resolution-3d-printer)

Lost wax casting test here:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/b9creations/b9creator-a-high-resolution-3d-printer/posts/240032 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/b9creations/b9creator-a-high-resolution-3d-printer/posts/240032)

When the printer is setup to the highest quality setting, it will print at 50 microns (0.05mm) in the X/Y axis and down to 10 microns (0.01mm) in the Z axis.

Here is an example if the kind of detail possible from the machine:
(http://web-tech.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tower02.jpg)

Another cool print example of a ring ready for lost wax casting:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/b9creations/b9creator-a-high-resolution-3d-printer/posts/244460 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/b9creations/b9creator-a-high-resolution-3d-printer/posts/244460)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 03, 2012, 10:06:21 AM
Little update:

The toolmaker has just emailed me and progress on the turnout chair tool is good, I should have moulded chair samples in 2 weeks! He will then start work on the plain line track base tool.

Also, I should receive the DLP 3D printer this month, the plan is to print the crossing/frogs in resin and use this for lost wax casting in nickel silver :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on August 03, 2012, 12:04:18 PM
Thanks for the update...

I have been keeping an eye on these developments as our club has a layout in the planning stages, in fact we already have the baseboards constructed, that may make use of the points being developed here.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on August 03, 2012, 12:06:54 PM
Thanks for the update.
I'm looking forward to seeing your track.

ps: both of the websites you mentioned further up are still blank?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 03, 2012, 06:41:23 PM
Thanks guys,

Both website are reserved, a website will not go up until all products are ready to ship :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 03, 2012, 06:42:52 PM
Looking forward to seeing at what point your chairs turnout ;)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 08, 2012, 10:44:37 AM
Well lookie what we have here :)

(http://www.shoot35.com/Chair%20tool.jpg)
(http://www.shoot35.com/Chair%20tool%202.jpg)

I should have samples tomorrow or Friday!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on August 08, 2012, 10:54:23 AM
Very nice, and expensive looking! ;D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 08, 2012, 11:10:13 AM
Very nice, and expensive looking! ;D

Just hope it's worth it!!! :'(
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: surfaceman on August 08, 2012, 10:07:11 PM
Hi, Wayne

A bit late in catching up with this thread but it has made me rethink my new SR layout, based on the Guildford and Horsham line.

With the track/signalling plans complete, landscaping / scenics settled and the baseboards almost ready, I was about to go ahead with Peco Code 55 but ...

... I've now decided it would be better to wait a short time ( hopefully ) and go with what seems to be a realistic AND feasible fine-scale alternative.

Good luck with your efforts - its what N gauge has been needing!

Alex

PS. I'll keep watching the thread now!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: K-N-Gauge on August 08, 2012, 11:49:16 PM
All looks like its going well! :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 09, 2012, 10:53:13 AM
Thanks guys!

And here they are!

(http://www.shoot35.com/turnout%20chairs%20moulded.jpg)

They look great, now for testing. The checkrail chair should give a 1mm gap between the rails...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 09, 2012, 11:43:50 AM
Looks the business not too much spread on the bottom of the pin for the point ones and good clean chair mouldings.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: BurtonWetmore on August 09, 2012, 12:15:53 PM
Yup, really nice. I'm very tempted with starting Burton with this now instead of the 2mm society easitrack. Think i'll buy samples of each first. It would certainly save alot of time machining wheels and the fact that not all modellers would have access to a lathe would suggest you're onto a winner.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Southernboy on August 09, 2012, 09:47:00 PM
Looking good :)

I'm definitely interested in using this for my next layout.

I think you're very brave to have invested your time and money in this project and really hope it takes off both for your own benefit, and the modellers out there like me who are looking for a relatively straightforward step-up from the standard offerings out there which by modern expectations no longer quite meet-the-mark.



 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on August 09, 2012, 09:58:03 PM
Looking good :)

I'm definitely interested in using this for my next layout.

I think you're very brave to have invested your time and money in this project and really hope it takes off both for your own benefit, and the modellers out there like me who are looking for a relatively straightforward step-up from the standard offerings out there which by modern expectations no longer quite meet-the-mark.

Now, now...you haven't finished the first one!  :telloff:  ;)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Southernboy on August 09, 2012, 10:30:26 PM
Hello Claude Dreyfus,

I believe in planning well ahead  :) :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 16, 2012, 10:34:46 AM
Good news!

It has taken a week before I can try out the new turnout chairs, because the little location pins on the bottom of the chairs were slightly under diameter, they measure about 0.93mm rather than 1mm, so there was too much slop with 1mm holes in the turnout base.

I finally received a 0.95mm drill bit for my milling machine and made a test base, the chairs fit the holes very well, easy to push in and they hold in place with friction fit even before gluing in place.

I will make up this test turnout tonight (a B6) and take some photos, but its looking very good and I am extremely happy :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on August 16, 2012, 11:38:32 AM
Thanks for the update.
Are there news about the plain flexi track?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 16, 2012, 01:18:44 PM
Hi,

Now the turnout chair tool is complete, work has now begun on the plain line tool, this will take about 6 weeks to complete.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on August 16, 2012, 04:37:20 PM
Great, Thanks.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 18, 2012, 12:48:59 PM
Hi Guys,

Because work on the plain line tool is imminent, I need to make some final design decisions and would like your opinions.

I am trying to figure out what thickness I should make the turnout & plain line sleepers/timbers. I have a choice of 0.75mm (same as 2mm easitrac), 1mm or 1.5mm. The bigger the thickness, the stronger the track and also there is a deeper space for ballasting, which would be easier. If using 0.75mm, there will only be about 0.45mm of ballasting depth on turnouts (because of the webbing), @ 1mm thick about 0.5mm and @ 1.5mm about 0.75mm ballasting depth:

Sleeper Thickness         Ballasting Depth
0.75mm                         0.45mm
1mm                              0.5mm
1.5mm                           0.75mm

Note that once ballasted, the look of the track should be identical regardless of sleeper thickness. For reference, peco code 55 uses 1.8mm thick sleepers/timbers.

The photos of the bases I have milled on the first post are 1.5mm thickness.

Your opinions on this choice would be much appreciated :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on August 18, 2012, 01:04:53 PM
I would go with 1mm or 0.75. 1mm will give a stronger more robust product.
Good luck.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on August 18, 2012, 01:32:24 PM
Having used a lot of the thin C&L stuff in 4mm, I'd certainly appreciate a thicker moulding to make the ballasting easier. My vote would thus be for 1.5mm.

This would also presumably be more robust when shimming one side to get superelevation on curves?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on August 18, 2012, 01:49:22 PM
To me, making the sleepers too thick would defeat the object of the finer track...so perhaps 1.5 may be too much. 1mm would probably give the best mix of fine appearance and strength.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 18, 2012, 02:02:10 PM
Thanks guys,

True, but once ballasted, would the result not be the same?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on August 18, 2012, 02:44:10 PM
Indeed, however it may be obvious around points etc. Height of ballast for me is a bit of a moot point as the layout I am planning for this is set in 1890s West Sussex...with the ballast covering the sleepers.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 18, 2012, 02:53:26 PM
Thanks. Where in West Sussex? (I'm interested as I live in East Sussex) :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on August 18, 2012, 02:54:56 PM
Thanks. Where in West Sussex (I'm interested as I live in East Sussex) :)

The nice bit... :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Pengi on August 18, 2012, 02:56:22 PM
Thanks. Where in West Sussex (I'm interested as I live in East Sussex) :)

The nice bit... :D

Would that be Arundel?

(I live on the Hants/W Sussex border so interested in this too)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on August 18, 2012, 03:00:20 PM

I am really looking forward to this track coming available...and as an aside I will be starting a thread for this layout in the near future, which, amongst other things will chart how I get on with this track.

The layout is fictious, but enviages a tiny branch from Petworth station, on the Midhurst branch, to Petworth Town itself.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on August 18, 2012, 03:09:07 PM
I would be happy with 1mm.... :thumbsup:
As Richard says this will give a more robust feel to it....
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 18, 2012, 03:45:17 PM
Good stuff,

How about 1mm thick sleepers, 0.4mm webbing and 0.6mm ballasting depth?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: BernardTPM on August 18, 2012, 04:08:53 PM
If you go for scale thickness sleepers then it will also make better loads for track carrying wagons.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Southernboy on August 18, 2012, 04:21:43 PM
Sorry to detract from the thread:

Claude Dreyfus:
"..the layout I am planning for this is set in 1890s ..."

I'd much appreciate it if you could drop me a line when you start a thread on this as I'm very interested in pre-grouping layouts and wouldn't want to miss it :)

Thanks :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on August 18, 2012, 04:45:20 PM
How about 1mm thick sleepers, 0.4mm webbing and 0.6mm ballasting depth?

4mm scale C&L flex-track has a sleeper depth of 1.06mm, if I remember correctly, and I've always found that a P.I.T.A to ballast unless I cut the webbing away.  Hence my preference for 1.5mm  :)

It wouldn't be the end of the world if you went for 1mm, I just think life would be a lot easier if the sleepers were thicker.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thebrighton on August 18, 2012, 05:17:37 PM
Indeed, however it may be obvious around points etc. Height of ballast for me is a bit of a moot point as the layout I am planning for this is set in 1890s West Sussex...with the ballast covering the sleepers.
Greetings,
This track has come too late for me. My layout is East Sussex in the 1890's. I had to go back to using code 80 to be able to ballast over the sleepers and still let the stock roll! Seems to have worked out ok though.
Gareth
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thebrighton on August 18, 2012, 05:19:19 PM
Greetings,
I'd go for the compromise of 1mm.
Gareth
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: moogle on August 18, 2012, 09:36:58 PM
If you want it to look 'scale' compared to other track yet be strong I'd say 1mm.
That would allow for ballast and still look good on wagons.
(Surely you'd use the track you'd be replacing with this system on them?  ;))

If you're doing a period piece like Gareth then you'd be best avoiding code 40 because of ballasting over the sleepers like he said.
A lot of companies did that, though the SER liked to leave every sixth sleeper exposed for some reason!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 18, 2012, 09:57:38 PM
Ballasting over the sleepers is a period thing. It was initially the norm because horses don't like stepping over sleepers. However it also covers up evidence of decay and failure.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 19, 2012, 12:32:33 AM
Unless I've misunderstood doesn't the sleeper thickness also have a knock on effect for the milled point bases?  If these also have to be 0.75mm thick in total wouldn't that make them a bit flimsy?  Better to go a bit thicker for the sake of easier to make points.
Are there any places on the prototype where sleepers are unballasted? These are the only places where you would be able to tell the height of the sleepers.  The only one I can think of is on some bridges, which are both rare and where sleepers are relatively easily hidden/disguised.
I vote for 1mm or maybe even more.

Wayne, is it still your intention to make the points with adjustable 1mm/0.77mm flangeways?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on August 19, 2012, 03:26:44 AM
Matching Easitrac would be the sensible thing otherwise you are adding a degree of incompatibility. 

To re-assure those who haven't used it, the thickness of Easitrac really isn't an issue in terms of strength or ballasting.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 19, 2012, 10:20:42 AM
I really appreciate your input, guys :)

I beleive I will settle for 1mm on both plain line and turnout bases.

Rab, the intention was to release kits with different flangeway gaps, not to be adjustable between the two, you would  choose which clearances you want and pick the appropriate kit.

The first kits will be released with a 0.9mm frog/crossing flangeway and 1mm checkrail flangeway, this gives 7.1mm between checks which will allow most new RTR stock to run through unmodified.

A finer standard will come later once we agree on what clearances to use. NMRA standards are probably the best place to start, maybe we can discuss what clearances would work?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on August 19, 2012, 11:29:23 AM
I beleive I will settle for 1mm on both plain line and turnout bases,

Right, that's settled then :thumbsup:

Really looking forward to getting my grubby paws on some of these bits in the future.  Please tell me you'll be taking PayPal when The Big Day comes :drool:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on August 19, 2012, 01:58:20 PM
I beleive I will settle for 1mm on both plain line and turnout bases.

Hi Wayne

Presumably 1mm is going to make this incompatible with Easitrac (without packing Easitrac)? 

The first kits will be released with a 0.9mm frog/crossing flangeway and 1mm checkrail flangeway, this gives 7.1mm between checks which will allow most new RTR stock to run through unmodified.

What BtB are you aiming these at? Most new RTR BtBs are 7.2mm +

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 19, 2012, 02:02:58 PM
What BtB are you aiming these at? Most new RTR BtBs are 7.2mm +

Anything below about 7.4mm isn't even reliable on existing coarse track systems. Anything below about 7.3 really ought to be returned to the shop or fixed !
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on August 19, 2012, 03:40:02 PM
What BtB are you aiming these at? Most new RTR BtBs are 7.2mm +

Anything below about 7.4mm isn't even reliable on existing coarse track systems. Anything below about 7.3 really ought to be returned to the shop or fixed !


Yes, we ought to be at a BtB around 7.5mm so that the flangeways are kept to a minimum and that the wheels properly negotiate the crossing vees. Anything that allows for smaller BtBs will mean that the wheels might drop off the rail crossing vee and lurch like stock does on Peco track.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: fisherman on August 19, 2012, 04:08:30 PM
I have  been   facinated  to  read all  the  correspondence  on  this  topic. I am  very interested  in  producing a   layout  with  finer, near   scale  track.

I would  imagine  the   B to B setting  would  be  aimed  at those  suitable  for  current  'platinum type' locos . The wheelsets of  wagons   and  coaches  are  easy to  change.

I do  worry  that  1mm might  make   ballasting a little  harder. The  extra  .5 mm  may  not seem a  lot  but  would  make   a  big  difference.

My   main  worry   would  be  wiring up  and  operating  the  points but  that is  something I am  sure  I could  learn  to  do.


ty  for  all  the   effort !!!!

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ingleborough on August 19, 2012, 09:39:11 PM
Hi,
In a previous response i suggested a thicker rather than thinner sleeper thickness for rigidity, durability and reliability of your product. So I am happy to reccommend that you go with the 1.5mm thickness. Any one using the track will certainly ballast the track so the thickness is irrelevent visually but of the upmost importance for strength. Personally I would not consider using your track system if it is not of sufficient strength.
I have built track in P4 and EM gauges and the strength and durability is the key factor, especially in portable exhibition layouts, there is nothing worse than trying to replace a handbuilt turnout during an exhibition (or at any other time really) on a completed layout. Which brings me to a futher point (no pun intended), I would advise the avoidence of fishplates, provide electical connections to each piece of rail and let the ballast hold the track and rails in alignment. Then, when a piece of track does need replacing it will be a far simpler task to remove it without disturbing adjoining tracks.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on August 19, 2012, 09:57:57 PM
Sorry to labour the point but there seems to be some misunderstandings creeping in here:

- you don't need deep sleepers to ballast properly
- the strength of the track is really gained from laying it on a decent stable surface not from having thick sleepers

Assuming that the design is similar to Easitrac then the "weakest" parts of the track are not the sleepers but the webbing between the sleepers which you need to make the track flexible.  Even these thin parts are still not a problem - I have yet to break one using Easitrac.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 20, 2012, 08:36:36 AM
Hi Guys,

All of your replies have been great!

I have decided on 1mm thick sleepers with about 0.4mm webbing, which will give about 0.6mm ballasting depth. I will inform the tool maker before he makes the plain line tooling.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 21, 2012, 01:11:27 PM
I beleive I will settle for 1mm on both plain line and turnout bases.

Hi Wayne

Presumably 1mm is going to make this incompatible with Easitrac (without packing Easitrac)? 


One solution to this problem for the (I imagine relatively few) people looking to mix and match fiNe and Easitrac would be for Wayne to stock suitable thickness sheet material in his lineup to shim under easitrac.  It would be so thin it would be easy to cut with a knife and lay over or under the cork (or other roadbed)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 21, 2012, 01:13:56 PM
You need to pack the track in most cases anyway with the easitrac thickness in order to get a suitable ballast shoulder. Weetabix provide mine 8)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 21, 2012, 04:50:14 PM
I could make a few turnout kits with 0.75mm thick sleepers for anyone wanting to use easitrac plain line, I will be using 0.75mm thick material for the 2mmFS kits anyway :)

Does anyone believe there would be a market for a 4mm (00/EM/P4) version of this, using the same method of chairs with location pins and lost wax cast frog?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on August 21, 2012, 05:02:56 PM
One solution to this problem for the (I imagine relatively few) people looking to mix and match fiNe and Easitrac would be for Wayne to stock suitable thickness sheet material in his lineup to shim under easitrac.  It would be so thin it would be easy to cut with a knife and lay over or under the cork (or other roadbed)

No offence meant to Wayne, but I will be sticking with plain Easitrac and then making the decision whether to build Easitrac points to 9mm or to use Wayne's points.

I can pack it, but I'd rather not have to mess. 

I'm not a fan of exaggerated ballast shoulders as in many locations they don't exist.  Where they do then using cork underlay or similar is the easiest way of doing it.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 21, 2012, 05:13:32 PM
I think you'll find that EasiTrac deosn't have to be exclusively available from the 2mmSA - AFAIA it was developed as a privately funded project (not the 2mmSA)

It is now 2mmSA owned. I don't know the whole story but I'm told the NGS had an option to get involved too and didn't. Given the main interest of the members that's probably not unreasonable.

I'd actually turn the question around the other way - which is that I suspect Wayne has an opportunity as he mills the point bases to also mill 9.48mm bases with a finer spacing and sell them to 2mm folk who want an easier point building system.

It's also true there are some advantages to keeping 9mm v 9.48, one of which is that while its not a big problem for diesels and electrics some steam locos do seem to waddle like a duck with the extra 0.5mm of slop.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 21, 2012, 05:28:31 PM
No offence meant to Wayne, but I will be sticking with plain Easitrac and then making the decision whether to build Easitrac points to 9mm or to use Wayne's points.


I can mill the bases using 0.75mm if that is what you require pesonally. I can even mill bases from custom turnouts made in templot if you send me the file...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Oldman on August 21, 2012, 06:08:07 PM
Have been following the thread with interest. As I would be building Nn3 track would you consider the idea for the option of drilling the ties so we could possibly make dual gauge  flexitrack  and a point so either gauge could branch off in their own direction.
ie:
N/Nn3 in and 1 branch out N, the other Nn3.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 22, 2012, 08:14:28 AM
Hi Mike,

I could probably mill plain line bases but a dual gauge turnout is a little complicated and probably over my head right now :P
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Oldman on August 22, 2012, 08:29:52 AM
No problems , thanks for your prompt answer.
I have a bundle of weathered code 40 track and copper clad sleepers so will stick with that route for now
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kiwi1941 on August 22, 2012, 08:47:03 AM
I could make a few turnout kits with 0.75mm thick sleepers

I've not been following this thread closely [all my track is laid for better or worse] but I could do with some straight, short lengths [c.120mm] of  thin, modern, concrete sleeper track to make sensible loads for engineers' trains. Peco track is just too thick and so doesn't look right [expensive experiment]. Possible? Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 22, 2012, 09:21:54 AM
Hi Brian,

I would recommend the Easitrac concrete sleepers/rail for wagon loads :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 24, 2012, 09:17:34 AM
No offence meant to Wayne, but I will be sticking with plain Easitrac and then making the decision whether to build Easitrac points to 9mm or to use Wayne's points.


I can mill the bases using 0.75mm if that is what you require pesonally. I can even mill bases from custom turnouts made in templot if you send me the file...

I think I may try milling bases my entire layout in interlocking segments and then buying the chairs from you.  Should make tracklaying really easy!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 24, 2012, 07:12:23 PM
Sorry for the delay in putting up photos, but my wife went into labour and our first child was born last night @ 7.37pm, a little boy 3.3KG :)

Both my wife and 'my boy' are doing fine and my attention are on them for a while :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on August 24, 2012, 07:15:44 PM
Congratulations, Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Donkey on August 24, 2012, 08:02:29 PM
Great news Wayne  : :beers::
Congratulations to you and your good lady  :claphappy: :) :claphappy:

Marty
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: surfaceman on August 24, 2012, 11:05:47 PM
Many congratulations Wayne. Hope all are well.

( You can put the forthcoming sleepless nights to good use on your project! )

Alex
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 24, 2012, 11:35:47 PM
Yes, many congratulations. I suppose we may excuse a couple of days off the project - only a couple though! :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 01, 2012, 02:48:02 PM
Hi Guys,

Sorry for the delay but we got our little boy (Joshua) home on Saturday night (25th) and we noticed he was having a few odd muscle twitches. It happened a couple of times and then a 3rd at midnight that night so we called an ambulance.

It turned out he was having small seizures to to a small bleed on the brain from the ventose delivery (the suction cup they use on the babies head to pull them out.

We were sent by ambulance to Kings College hospital in London so that could assess him and see what is up.

We were up there all week, all his signs look good and the MRI scan shows a small clot in the brain that caused the seizure that should disappear on its own in time. We got home last night about 10:30 and very tired but pleased to get him home :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on September 01, 2012, 04:03:34 PM
Wow, sounds like a pretty rough couple of weeks you have had. Good to hear things seen to have settled and you are now back home...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 03, 2012, 10:43:10 AM
Thanks for your support guys!

OK, I have managed to take some pics of the first prototype, a B6 :) The cool thing is that the chairs are not even glued to the base, they are staying in place under friction (they will of course be glued with solvent).

The frog is temporary 3D printed. This will eventually be 3D printed on a higher resolution 3D printer and then lost wax cast in Nickel Silver to match the rail. All I need to do is solder in a PCB tie bar. I have rolled some stock through the frog/crossing and it is very smooth indeed, I am dead pleased!

(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5236.JPG)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5237.JPG)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5238.JPG)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5239.JPG)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5240.JPG)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5241.JPG)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5247.JPG)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5248.JPG)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Southernboy on September 03, 2012, 10:54:44 AM
That really does look good. The last few pictures really illustrate the fineness of the prototype superbly. Congratulations on great progress to date!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: K-N-Gauge on September 03, 2012, 11:06:52 AM
Looks smashing! :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on September 03, 2012, 11:11:01 AM
First off......So glad to hear you have your boy back home with you Wayne,and i hope things settle down quickly . :thumbsup:
Secondly i don't think i am the only one who is starting to get really excited about the progress you are making here.From those pics it looks fantastic. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thebrighton on September 03, 2012, 01:39:18 PM
That is looking tremendous!
Gareth
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 03, 2012, 02:07:10 PM
That looks fantastic - and you can offer insulfrog too :laugh:

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on September 05, 2012, 09:15:09 PM
These look fantastic. I hope all is well at home with the new arrival. I can't wait to see how this progresses. Coupled with the new releases announced recently by Dapol N gauge is in for an exciting time.

To answer an older question on the thread, I'd like to see the components ie. sleeper base to construct plain track available as well as turnouts so it's possible to buy everything from one supplier.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 06, 2012, 12:56:48 PM
Thanks Anglian,

Tooling for plain track is nearly complete, so we have that covered :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: BurtonWetmore on September 16, 2012, 09:19:04 AM
Wayne, this is really starting to get exciting. I can't wait to place an order :D and it looks like this will be well worth the wait.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 16, 2012, 10:07:08 AM
Thanks, samples for the plain line should be with me on the 28th :)

The last peice of the puzzle will then be getting my 3D printer up and running to print out the frog/crossings ready for lost wax casting in nickel silver!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: snes on September 22, 2012, 06:53:35 PM
Wayne, this enterprise of yours could be a life saver for me. I'm new to n and have planned a modest Southern terminus. To go with this I have a smallish collection of stock.

I am adamant I don't want to build the layout using the awful looking Peco product, so I joined the 2mm Assoc. to purchase and construct Easitrac, including all the jigs and gauges. That would have been v. expensive. Then there would have been the re wheeling of all stock. At about 80p per axle, another significant expense (and remember, I dont have an awful lot of stock!)

Finally would be the rewheeling of my 7 or so locos. Except, wheels aren't available for some, and I'm told that others such as the M7, cannot easily be accessed for turning down.

So I was about to explore the option of Easitrac with eased clearances - until I read your thread. I love the 1mm clearance with an option to go finer built in. It seems to open so many doors for me. And I like the way you have asked users for preferences all the way down the line - noobs like me can only benefit from the wisdom of others.

So, good luck in your enterprise. I suspect I shall be an early customer. Especially if your plain track looks as good as the Easitrac.

Is there an e-mail address available to register an interest, and receive notice when things are up and running?

Rick
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 23, 2012, 08:38:17 AM
Thanks Rick,

I hope the finished article lives upto everyones expectations :)

BTW, 2 miles (6400 peices of 500mm lengths) of code 40 bullhead rail arrived at the work unit,yesterday..lol

For the moment its 'watch this space for details'...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 01, 2012, 01:23:13 PM
Hi Guys,

Plain track base samples are in! Looking good so far, rail is too loose in the chairs however. This is being worked on now by the toolmaker, he believes higher pressure is needed when injecting.

Anyhow, here are the initial pictures:

(http://shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5442s.jpg)
(http://shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5446s.jpg)
(http://shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5447s.jpg)
(http://shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5448s.jpg)
(http://shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5449s.jpg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Fratton on October 01, 2012, 01:31:06 PM
Looking smashing  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on October 01, 2012, 01:40:47 PM
Certainly looks the part.

Busy planning the baseboards, so hopefully by the time they are designed and built (we don't work quickly!), your track will be in production, and we can start building model railways!  :claphappy:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: K-N-Gauge on October 01, 2012, 06:14:08 PM
Looking very nice!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: TomE on October 02, 2012, 08:18:09 PM
Hi Wayne.

I have been keeping an eye on the thread over here for a while and just thought Iíd say how impressive your points & track look. Congratulations on getting the project this far! Whilst bullhead trackwork a little late for me personally, having gone the Easitrac route, if you ever do flat bottom trackwork and points I'd take some for a project I have on the drawing board.

Again, awesome work! I hope it's as successful as it deserves to be!

Cheers,

Tom.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on October 03, 2012, 01:51:52 PM
This is looking fantastic and is getting really exciting. I'm actually quite astounded that you've been able to achieve what Peco have failed to deliver.

For me this is currently a perfect solution. I don't have the space for the sort of layout I'd like in 4mm and I currently think 2mm Finescale might be a step too far for my inexperienced hands however this track system is perfect. I know its very early days but do you envisage being able to make slips, crossings and three way points?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 04, 2012, 09:21:59 AM
Thanks for the kind comments, guys!

Once the design of the main components is finalised, making crossings, slips, 3 way points, scissor cross overs is just a matter of designing the base, so all of these are planned :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thos on October 04, 2012, 09:39:02 AM
It looks excellent.  If the sleepers are OK for 1:160 you should also have a good market in Europe and the States.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 04, 2012, 11:10:56 AM
That would be cool!

One thing that I don't think I have mentioned is that the plain flexi track won't be sold as assembled lengths, but the plastic bases and rail would be purchased seperately and the user would then thread the rail into the chairs to make up lengths, like the 2mm Easitrac system. Unfortunately I don't have the time to pre assemble these :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on October 04, 2012, 11:28:32 AM
That's fine by me and is actually what I expected.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on October 04, 2012, 11:57:07 AM
It looks excellent.  If the sleepers are OK for 1:160 you should also have a good market in Europe and the States.

US sleeper spacing is very different.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on October 04, 2012, 12:03:42 PM
It looks excellent.  If the sleepers are OK for 1:160 you should also have a good market in Europe and the States.
For Europe flat bottom rail would be needed and in 1:160 the sleeper size and spacing would be different too.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HSB on October 05, 2012, 11:25:49 PM
Micro Engineering already produce US-prototype Code 40 flexi-track but unfortunately not points  (or "switches" in America parlance)!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: BernardTPM on October 06, 2012, 09:19:58 AM
Micro Engineering already produce US-prototype Code 40 flexi-track but unfortunately not points  (or "switches" in America parlance)!
Given the milling and casting methods used for points if you had baseplates/fixings for the flatbottom rail there's a possible gap in the US market!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 08, 2012, 04:49:26 PM
On another note, does anyone think a 4mm scale version of my point kits (with the same chair location pin/holes in milled bases and lost wax cast frog/crossings) would have much interest? I could potentional do 00/EM/P4 kits?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: BernardTPM on October 08, 2012, 04:57:31 PM
I'd be interested in that for 9mm gauge (i.e. FR style n.g. track, of course)  :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on October 08, 2012, 05:04:25 PM
I guess the world is your oyster but you could also consider:

2mm
9mm
9.42mm

3mm
13.5mm
14.2mm



Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 08, 2012, 05:07:33 PM
Very true, I have 9.42mm 2FS kits planned already, I guess 4mm is a much bigger market...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on October 08, 2012, 05:13:52 PM
Yes, I guess you may want to wait to see what the demand is like first as you may find your are in the fortunate position of having more orders than your milling machine can keep up with! I've no idea about the technology but I'm only guessing that the parts that do the cutting wear out and need replacing and the machine perhaps needs servicing Ė all down time. Then there's your young familyÖ

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on October 08, 2012, 05:27:06 PM
Very true, I have 9.42mm 2FS kits planned already, I guess 4mm is a much bigger market...

And with more competition. I wouldn't overlook Z/NN3 either. Even if you use your N scale chairs and code 40 rail but mill the bases for 6.5mm gauge you'll still be way finer than the proprietary code 55 garbage available.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 08, 2012, 05:31:21 PM
Thats a very good idea with the z gauge!

Certainly more competition in 4mm, but none as far as I can see have easy build kits with pre milled chair location holes and pre cast frogs :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on October 08, 2012, 10:02:00 PM
4mm have pre-soldered frogs available.  Not sure how the P4 track co kits do location.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 25, 2012, 12:39:36 PM
Hi Guys,

I have spent the last 2 weeks learning how to use my new 3D printer, which I was planning to use to print crossing frogs in resin, ready for lost wax casting.

I have made not so bad progress, as seen below:

(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/frog01.jpg)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/frog02.jpg)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/frog03.jpg)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/frog04.jpg)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/frog05.jpg)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/frog06.jpg)
(http://www.shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/frog07.jpg)

Although not bad, I don't think the quality is quite there, and the repeatability of printing is questionable.

I have decided instead to revert back to my last idea of assembling a master crossing frog myself using actual rail, and making a silicon rubber master mould of this, ready to make wax copies for lost wax casting.

Once I get this part nailed, the kits will be close to ready :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: snes on October 25, 2012, 01:13:36 PM
Well done, Wayne. Is there a time frame on any of this?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 25, 2012, 01:20:19 PM
Hi,

I really want the kits done and website up and running before xmas!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: mojo on October 25, 2012, 02:15:51 PM
Hello Wayne,
Any idea on prices for this system yet?
Maurice C.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 25, 2012, 02:36:43 PM
Hi,

I beleive the final price will be £12.99 inc. VAT per turnout kit or crossing kit.

Plain line will be roughly £3.99 per yard inc. VAT, but this will not be sold per yard, but as packs of rail and packs of track bases.

I would like peoples opinions on the price?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on October 25, 2012, 02:47:00 PM
Hi,

I beleive the final price will be £12.99 inc. VAT per turnout kit or crossing kit.

Plain line will be roughly £3.99 per yard inc. VAT, but this will not be sold per yard, but as packs of rail and packs of track bases.

I would like peoples opinions on the price?

Hi Wayne

My gut feeling is that the points are too cheap!  Plain track is probably about right.

Given that comparable 4mm point kits are £30+.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thebrighton on October 25, 2012, 03:55:38 PM
Hi,

I beleive the final price will be £12.99 inc. VAT per turnout kit or crossing kit.

Plain line will be roughly £3.99 per yard inc. VAT, but this will not be sold per yard, but as packs of rail and packs of track bases.

I would like peoples opinions on the price?

Blimey, you must be doing this out of love rather than to make any money! I was expecting at least 50% more per turnout kit. On the flip side though if you can do them for that kind of price I'm sure more people will take the plunge as £12.99 isn't too bad an outlay if it all goes horribly wrong at first.
Gareth
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on October 25, 2012, 04:05:41 PM
Hi,

I beleive the final price will be £12.99 inc. VAT per turnout kit or crossing kit.

Plain line will be roughly £3.99 per yard inc. VAT, but this will not be sold per yard, but as packs of rail and packs of track bases.

I would like peoples opinions on the price?

The turnouts sound on the very cheap side and the track pretty well priced too. Make sure you've priced things like machinery depreciation into all your costs as I'd hate them to be cheap and then not available as opposed to higher priced and continued !
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Collie on October 25, 2012, 04:08:24 PM
Hi Wayne
       Ive been following this thread for a while .Track laying on hold untill ive seen samples  Cant wait !!!

Regards Roger (collie)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on October 25, 2012, 04:29:02 PM
I'm pretty happy with the price. I know 4mm kits are £25+ but a PECO N point is what about £8 Ė £10? I guess with N gauge it's likely that there may well be more turn-outs on a layout given the advantages of space so perhaps higher volume of sales? For some the advantages of aesthetics, that have got us all interested, might not be enough to persuade them to move from PECO if the price differential is too high.

I'd buy them at the current price but if they were getting up to £15 then I think it's too much at least as an introduction to the system.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on October 25, 2012, 06:04:09 PM
I'm pretty happy with the price. I know 4mm kits are £25+ but a PECO N point is what about £8 Ė £10? I guess with N gauge it's likely that there may well be more turn-outs on a layout given the advantages of space so perhaps higher volume of sales? For some the advantages of aesthetics, that have got us all interested, might not be enough to persuade them to move from PECO if the price differential is too high.

I'd buy them at the current price but if they were getting up to £15 then I think it's too much at least as an introduction to the system.

A valid point (no pun intended!) about having more points, but Wayne isn't competing with Peco.  He is providing a much more niche product.  Even at £15 they would still be a bargain (RRP on a large radius code 55 Peco point seems to be £11-12).

Like Alan I would much rather Wayne gave himself a good chance of success (plus make it too cheap and risk being inundated with orders that can't be fulfilled!).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on October 25, 2012, 06:38:07 PM
Yes, I agree we wish him every success. Yes it is a niche product, you're right. I think I like the concept so much that I'm thinking everybody will ditch PECO and want to build point kits, when of course some won't want to go down that route!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karhedron on October 25, 2012, 08:58:35 PM
Once the design of the main components is finalised, making crossings, slips, 3 way points, scissor cross overs is just a matter of designing the base, so all of these are planned :)
Wow, that really is comprehensive!  :claphappy:

I am seriously considering ditching my current layout to try you new track. OK, maybe a slight exageration as I think Mrs Karhedron would not be impressed. But even so I am tempted to try my hand a micro-layout, just to try this out.

How you you envisage track being joined? Track joiners like peco or soldered rails?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: GerryB on October 25, 2012, 09:04:39 PM
Hi Wayne,
Having recently converted from 4mm to 'N'  I've been watching your progress with interest. I do believe you have pitched the plain track price just about right, but the points seem far too cheap. I for one would certainly prefer to pay more for the point kits and see you continue in business for the foreseeable future rather than take a short term saving in price now and find they are no longer viable for you to produce in the future.
The possibility of the system being available before Christmas is wonderful, hope everything goes well for you.
Regards
Gerry

Regards
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: snes on October 26, 2012, 08:14:59 AM
Hi All
From what I have read, Wayne seems quite enterprise savvy. He already runs a business. He knows his costings, his business plan, his required margins. And no doubt has fixed his price accordingly. I think we need to respect this.

I do however share member's concerns about being swamped by demand and the need to artificially adjust pricing to prevent this.

Wayne, if you have to adopt this approach, could you have a special early adopters price? Perhaps for followers like us who could order and pay before you have a full launch. May be even needing to pre register with you?

Whatever you decide, I think everyone here is highly impressed by your approach and ability to ask and listen to well intentioned advice.

Any one else like to add to the above?
Rick
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 26, 2012, 08:55:28 AM
Thanks for all your input, guys! At least no one has said it's too expensive :D

The intended approach for joining track would be the same as used by the 2mm Easitrac, no physical join :) Maybe z scale fishplates would fit, I haven't tried this but would spoil the look.

In terms of pricing, this is a little side line I am doing off of my camera accessory business, I am not really looking for a high income to pay bills, morgage etc. If I can pay back what I have invested in the project in a reasonable amount of time, I am happy and would be proud to see people using my track :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Roy L S on October 26, 2012, 01:40:43 PM
Thanks for all your input, guys! At least no one has said it's too expensive :D

The intended approach for joining track would be the same as used by the 2mm Easitrac, no physical join :) Maybe z scale fishplates would fit, I haven't tried this but would spoil the look.

In terms of pricing, this is a little side line I am doing off of my camera accessory business, I am not really looking for a high income to pay bills, morgage etc. If I can pay back what I have invested in the project in a reasonable amount of time, I am happy and would be proud to see people using my track :)

Hi Wayne

I for one have watched this thread with much interest ans am looking forward to the track and point kits being available.

I certainly intend to try it on a small project my self.

Regards
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Fratton on October 26, 2012, 03:17:59 PM
As i have said before very good work, like others i consider this project as the single most reason why i am considering a small exhibition layout,  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: mr magnolia on October 27, 2012, 02:01:43 PM
Wayne

I'd be tempted to round your prices up to something like £15 for a turnout and £5/m  for plain track, as I suspect that you will find a whole bunch of people out here, like me, who haven't said much, but have watched with interest. You'll likely get quite a lot of small orders as we jump at the chance to see what another product is like, and small orders could be a pain in the bahookey to deal with. Round numbers are easier for everyone to deal with too, and allows for easily recognisable steps in pricing other bits like crossovers and scissors in due course.

Looking forward to this.

Cheers

Donald
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karhedron on October 27, 2012, 09:40:20 PM
The intended approach for joining track would be the same as used by the 2mm Easitrac, no physical join :) Maybe z scale fishplates would fit, I haven't tried this but would spoil the look.
How do 2mm people join track? Sorry for going slightly OT but I have only ever used fish plates and I would be interested to know how you join rails without them. How do you ensure one rail is accurately aligned with the next?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on October 27, 2012, 10:30:22 PM
How do 2mm people join track? Sorry for going slightly OT but I have only ever used fish plates and I would be interested to know how you join rails without them. How do you ensure one rail is accurately aligned with the next?

They drill tiny little holes through the ends and then fit etched fishplates and microbolts  :claphappy:

Actually they simply ensure the sleepers are firmly held in place and the rest follows. Remember that 2fs doesn't really allow for 9" curves and other problems like that. It's actually more robust than you might think especially as you can thread two sets of rails half way into the same plastic moulding if using the easitrac mouldings. There are fishplates but they are tiny cosmetic ones with etched bolts that you fit with a magnifier cocktail stick superglue and swearwords and serve no functional purpose.

Someone out there probably cuts them to 60' lengths first.

Alan

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on October 28, 2012, 08:42:45 AM

How do 2mm people join track?


Generally they don't


How do you ensure one rail is accurately aligned with the next?


Use the Mk1 eyeball. It's a discerning and accurate piece of apperatus. Get it down low and look along the rail - you'll soon see anything even slightly not aligned. Shift it so it is, test with some stock and then permanently glue down.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: AndyGif on October 28, 2012, 09:15:23 AM

How do you ensure one rail is accurately aligned with the next?


they build and then use 2mmfs tamper/liners and a "small" gang of scale engineers....
 :wave:

this track system looks great, tempted by it for a small shelf/photo diorama layout.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JosephP on October 28, 2012, 10:42:52 AM
I have not been following the thread for a couple of months. NGF for some reason only sends updates to my e-mail sporadically.

I am really pleased to hear that this project is close to fruition. Like the other guys, I don't see the pricing as a problem.

Hope I can find the time to get some baseboards built over the next few weeks so that I can make a start on tracklaying asap.

This is going to be a big change in N gauge modelling in this country.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: pape_timmo on October 28, 2012, 07:51:49 PM
Its taken a few hours today, but I've just read through the whole of this thread.

I must admit, I have been thinking about my layout for ages, having put some boards together, and was just heading down the trackwork line of using the old bits of Peco track that have been layout in a drawer for the last 20 odd years. I assume is code 80 stuff, but not sure.

However, having gone through the thread, I am starting to think that I may well take the plunge and go down the kit-built line with Waynes system. It really looks amazing, and is a great prospect for N gauge. I've always been put off self build track before because of the complexity, soldering and time-consuming nature of laying it, along with the price.

Your prices are very reasonable, and I will certainly be following progress from now on.

Cheers, Timmo
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: BurtonWetmore on November 10, 2012, 01:41:33 PM
Well with an RRP of £22.95 for a point kit you can offer these to the trade ;) and still keep the price very reasonable. As you know I'm interested in stocking the brand.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 12, 2012, 12:27:06 PM
Hi Guys,

Your input has been well received, thanks!

I've had the 4th revision of the plain line tool samples in today, and I am pleased. The rail is now being held nice and firmly in the chairs and we are perfectly in gauge!

Now to order a batch of plain line track bases! :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: workwright on November 14, 2012, 09:01:12 PM
Hi, I have been following this topic for a long time now.  The progress you have made and the skills you have mastered- 3D routing and more recently rapid prototyping are impressive.  Have you got your photo polymerised building machine to produce useable masters for your lost wax caster?  I am very interested in this, since I was thinking of a 3D scanner and the same machine to avoid a lot of time pattern making.  I have made steam locos commercially for the last 30 years and the time to get a new loco into production and the loss of production time when making all the masters makes new model development very costly today.  So any shared experience of your machine would be most welcome.
I note you are about to go into production, when can we order some track?  Can I use 2mm Ass. code 40 bullhead rail with your system?  What B/B did you settle on for your turnouts and have you decided how to arrange the tie bar for the switch rails?
Superb work carrying this project through in such a short time and with so much going on in your life. Regards, Malcolm Wright
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 15, 2012, 03:24:50 PM
Hi Malcolm,

Thanks for your comments.

The 3D printer (b9 creator) has been impressive over the little use I have had of it. It has had a very good stab as printing a frog/crossing, but not quite there unfortunately. I am not suprised as it is such a fine and delicate object, I was very impressed how well it did actually come out.

I certainly see great potential in the machine for creating lost wax (resin) masters, the only down side right now is that the machine has only just been released and the software has note been released yet (only pre beta). The software only allows for manual placement of support material, might be ok for small objects but really needs an automatic support generation, which they are working on. The PDMS layer of my VAT tray is damaged now so needs replacing.

I have since used a 3D printing service/company to print a master of a frog/crossing so I can make a silicone rubber mould of it, ready for the lost wax casters to make wax copies of it. The print is very good and I beleive I can make a good mould of it. Upwards and onwards on this part :)

4000 track bases should be with me next week. I can take orders through email for those that are eager to try it, but I want to get the website up and running and also sort forum sponsership, on here for example. So yeah, plain line track is sorted and ready next week :) 2mm code 40 B/H is fine.

Turnouts simply waiting for the frog part to be complete.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karhedron on November 21, 2012, 01:28:18 PM
This may be an odd request. Would it be possible to make pre-cut sections that are the same dimensions as you points? Cutting flexi-track is fine most of the time but when making complex formations, it is extremely helpful to have curves that are an exact match for the points.

This ensures that complex formations can be made easily with exact alignment.

I am not expecting specially made "set-track". I was just hoping that pre-cut rails that are correct for both the inner and outer radius of a curve would be really helpful. We could then thread them onto the sleepers and go from there.

Would this be feasible or am I asking a bit much?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 22, 2012, 08:58:11 AM
Hi,

We wont be offering precut rails, sorry. rail for turnout kits will most likely be 2x peices of 250mm rail. Rail for plain line will be sold in 500mm lengths.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Brenda on December 03, 2012, 08:59:46 PM
Wow 3d printer! I had heard about such things but didn't have any notion that you buy one, I should imagine
they are really expensive.. and having the know how is fantastic.  Keep going with the great works.Brenda
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: workwright on December 08, 2012, 03:08:59 PM
Hi, thanks so much for your details about the B9 creator.  It looks interesting and very suited to what I make. How are the crossings going and have you sorted out how you are going to pivot the switch blades?
The main point of the post was to ask when and how can I order track bases? When you said that you expected 4000 soon, I dusted off the plans for the layout and got enthusiastic.  Are you getting to the point where you will be able to publish a catalogue /pricelist for the track system with the turnout kits to follow? Regards, Malcolm.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 09, 2012, 11:52:04 AM
Hi Malcolm,

You can order plain line track from myself now, please email me.

As for points/turnouts, I am still working on the frogs at the moment...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 11, 2012, 10:11:50 AM
Little update...

This morning, I have received 2x wax master 1in6 frogs, these are 3D printed directly in wax, the quality and detail is fantastic!

I have 2 options now. The wax masters are extremely fragile/britle, so I can either:

Option 1: Attempt to make a silicone rubber mould of this master myself, using RTV silicone. I have never made a mould before but have the rubber on hand ready.

Option 2: Get the lost wax caster to invest the wax master, resulting in a metal version (maybe brass) which will obviously be stronger, and then get the caster to make a rubber mould of the brass version. Unfortuantely, the 3D printed wax master would be to fragile for the caster to make a mould of it directly.

The upside of option 1 is that the mould will be made from the master, so potentially better quality. I can also control where the parting line of the 2 mould halves ends up. Downside is I am not experienced with mould making and it could end up a big mess and take up a lot of my time.

The upside of option 2 is that an experienced caster will do the work of making the mould. The downside of option 2 is that there are more copies/generations involved, meaning the final casting may not be quite as good. With option 2, I count that the final casting in Nickel would be a 6th generation copy of the original wax. With option one, it would only be 4 generations.

I guess its best to try option 2 first to see how it turns out. Hopefully we are getting there!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: intraclast on December 11, 2012, 10:37:30 AM
Thanks for the update Wayne.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who is enjoying following your product's design progress. Keep em coming!

Mark
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: GerryB on December 11, 2012, 11:56:38 AM
Thanks for the update, Wayne, much appreciated.

Gerry
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: workwright on December 11, 2012, 03:38:57 PM
Hi, given the size of your wax master making a mould for the first time is going to be difficult.  I do speak from years of experience of making masters and moulds for home produced whitemetal parts. A professional caster would probably try a onepart cut to release mould for something like this, making the mould from silicon RTV.  This is typically how a limited number of waxes would be made for artisan jewellery.  For you to try to make the mould with a part line? you are sugesting a two part mould possible but I would'nt try  when I only had a few waxes.  You have got to imbed the part in chavant or similar  and not distort the wax while doing so OR on its extraction when you make the closing half. Don't for get an expensive purchase too. A vacuum degasser.  I would use the waxes if you get full burnout to create some metal masters that you can then fettle and polish.  The best can then be used for a production wax mould in Vulcanised rubber or RTV that will have a life time of many thousand of waxes.  You need to allow for shinkage in the metal masters, and that you won't know until you have them to hand and unfortunately that also depends on how they are sprued and fed.  However I am sure having come so far you have an excellent relationship with your caster, who, if not achieving dimensions with the first batch has always got that metal master to sprue up a different way and make another wax production mould.
 In conclusion-my advice is use the wax to make a metal master or three. If there is shinkage, it is where is it and redo the wax build adding the shinkage allowance in.(I suspect the shinkage , if any, will not be uniform)  My caster working in white brass (looks like NS) using silicon rtv for the mould for the wax wants 2%.  and rectangles have to bulged out on the pattern slightly so they shrink square! But my castings are massive compared to yours.  Looking forward to the post coming thanks for excellent service, Regards, Malcolm
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on December 15, 2012, 03:26:43 PM
Wayne

Thanks for the update. Obviously I don't know who you are working with but a friend of mine has used Griffen for many years and their work is exceptional. In the model soldier hobby they are widely regarded as the very best. They have American clients as well as UK ones Ė they are that good. Might I suggest you contact them as they may be able to guide you with the decision process. I'm really keen to see you succeed and get the product to market.

http://www.griffinmoulds.com/services.htm (http://www.griffinmoulds.com/services.htm)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: workwright on December 16, 2012, 03:48:49 PM
Hi, I think a few followers of this interesting post are starting to ski off piste.  Wayne  has delivered a superb  flex track system. No ifs, ands, or buts.  It goes together and delivers 500mm panels of super detailed track. I have only  completed my first panel and without a jig it took 30 minutes ( I will post a photo soon)  The track is an accurate representation of  most British railway lines up to the mid 60s.  The chairs retain the rail and are for their size very resiliant. How do I know- I put one bullhead rail in upside down yet the sleeper strips were fine when re-threaded. I will use my task lamp and loupe next time. According to my vernier  the track panels deliver track that is to gauge ( it varies between 8.96mm and 9.01 which is the same  range as a bit of Peco code 55 I had to hand)  It is code 40  bull head rail the same as 2mm finescale track. As the more recent stock runs-  B1, WD, 08, 4MT every wagon and Mk1 I have on Wayne's track with no hitting the chairs I think we should just sit back and agree this guy has delivered what many of us  have wanted.
I for plus a few other modellers had started to realise by using 2mm finescale jigs and components with re-gauging.  Now I can save hours/ days/ months by sending Wayne a cheque as his range develops.  So lets not start a N gauge debate like the 4mm people got into with Proto whatever V Em V 4mm FS.  Lets us forget our friends across the pond, they use FB rail and spikes and are already catered for.  The NMRA standards if you research them do not add up for N anyway.  We all just have to back this new venture and publicise it.  I hope a track sample has gone to the Model Railway Journal and the other mags.  Well done Mr Kinney, enjoy Xmas then back to the bench and give us a turnout kit or two.  Regards M Wright
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on December 17, 2012, 01:25:03 AM
Lets us forget our friends across the pond, they use FB rail and spikes and are already catered for.

Errr we use an awful lot of FB rail and have done for some considerable time!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 17, 2012, 10:58:44 AM
Hi Guys,

Thanks for your input and link to Griffin :)

I have put up a temp webpage so anyone can now order plain line track:

http://www.britishfinescale.com/ (http://www.britishfinescale.com/)

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: snes on December 17, 2012, 05:25:18 PM
Great to see a web site taking shape, Wayne. Going to put in my order when the points come online, if that's okay.

Red_Death - try rereading the post. The FB rail was mentioned in the context of a pairing with spikes. Do we follow this practise over here?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on December 17, 2012, 05:33:26 PM
Ditto, once I can order a point kit as well I'll place an initial order. I'm confident that I'll be able to manage to assemble a point but I just want to make sure first!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on December 17, 2012, 05:47:55 PM
Red_Death - try rereading the post. The FB rail was mentioned in the context of a pairing with spikes. Do we follow this practise over here?

Not any more (if we ever did), in fact I would be surprised if the Americans still used spikes for new rail.
My point still stands that ignoring flat bottom rail means a large part of UK rail is not covered.  Bullhead is still present in yards and possibly some secondary lines, but the vast majority of track laid/re-laid over the last 20-30(?) years is flatbottom (with Pandrol clips mostly, though there are some other odd systems as well for holding down FB rail).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 17, 2012, 07:07:41 PM
My point still stands that ignoring flat bottom rail means a large part of UK rail is not covered.
Cheers, Mike

I am certainly not 'ignoring it', just finding another £3000 for tooling is really pushing it for me, at least for now :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: snes on December 17, 2012, 07:12:21 PM
That makes good sense now you have explained further. I seem to remember Wayne deliberating on this issue before settling on bullhead. But with over 20 pages so far, I can't point you any further on this.

With such lovely looking track, I'm not over fussed about it being bullhead - but I can see why others might.

If anyone can find the thread link that I am referring to, could they share it with us?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on December 17, 2012, 07:33:24 PM
I guess it was always going to be a tough decision as to which track type to start with but I'm delighted it's bull-head and not flat bottom rail.  :)

Let's hope that this venture is a roaring success so that other types may follow in the future.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on December 17, 2012, 08:54:57 PM
My point still stands that ignoring flat bottom rail means a large part of UK rail is not covered.
Cheers, Mike

I am certainly not 'ignoring it', just finding another £3000 for tooling is really pushing it for me, at least for now :)

Hi Wayne - please don't take my comment out of context as it wasn't aimed at you or your decision.  In your situation I would have made the same decision as you. My point was aimed at comments that FB was an American thing.

I would rather have FB points than plain track anyway  ;)

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 02, 2013, 10:04:29 AM
Happy New Year Guys!

Sorry, payment page has been down for a week or so, problems with PayPal, bunch of w******!

Back on now, but only with cheque payment at the moment, setting up a SagePay account...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: snes on January 02, 2013, 05:29:29 PM
Wayne, I resigned the n gauge society (with regret) and joined the 2mm Assoc with the sole intention of sourcing Easitrac and associated tools and jigs.

However, since your plans have been announced, it looks like I will no longer be needing Easitrac, lovely though it is.

But before I lapse my membership, and thus purchasing rights, can I just double check with you. Will I need any of the 2mm Assoc Easitrac jigs, templates etc to fabricate your track and pointwork?

Hope the above makes some sort of sense!

Happy New Year!

Rick
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 02, 2013, 05:39:34 PM
Hi,

No, you won't need to be a member of the 2mm ass. to use fiNetrax, although being a member is still a good thing and they have many other great products.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 02, 2013, 05:45:07 PM

No, won't need to be a member of the 2mm ass. to use fiNetrax, although being a member is still a good thing and they have many other great products.


Same goes for being a member of the NGS - you don't have to resign it to join the 2mmSA and continuing as a member will give access to their mail order shop and their exclusive wagon kits and RTR stuff that seems to be very popular these days.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: snes on January 02, 2013, 07:11:29 PM
What I meant to say was - would I need any of the Easitrac point and track templates to assemble fiNetrax products?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on January 02, 2013, 07:23:53 PM
What I meant to say was - would I need any of the Easitrac point and track templates to assemble fiNetrax products?

You don't need any easitrac products to assemble fiNetrax.
I have been trying out some of Wayne's plain track and working out how best to assemble it.
I have to say after a few attempts it becomes quite easy.(i will take some pics to show assembly)I think Wayne has spoken about a possible jig being made and i can see how this would make things even easier.
Looking forward to the points now as the plain track looks fantastic....
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: GerryB on January 02, 2013, 10:18:57 PM
I can confirm the above, so far as plain track is concerned there is no need for templates - although the use of any that Wayne eventually provides will no doubt speed up construction. I'm also looking forward to the introduction of turnouts to compliment the plain track.

Gerry
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: snes on January 03, 2013, 07:32:25 AM
Can I bounce this back to Wayne, then?

Wayne, do you envisage any jigs or templates etc being needed to assemble your pointwork?

If so, is this something you will be manufacturing?

Thanks!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 03, 2013, 09:05:19 AM
Hi,

I will be machining jigs to hold the plain line track bases while threading in the rail, should make things much easier.

As for turnouts, a paper template will be provided in the kit, clearly showing which chairs go where (slide, check and normal chairs). Also, switch blades will require filing, this is something we cannot do in batches here. I am working on an optional extra jig to aid filing switch blades.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on January 03, 2013, 05:31:06 PM
Just stumbled across this forum - and this specific thread - after googling something obscure about track.
I'd rate this as the best news in railway modelling I have seen for an extreeeeeeeeeemly long time! :bounce: Tired of all that scale Continental FB track masquerading on British branch lines.

I was supposed to have started track-laying on a new layout today, but now deferred for a week or two - this looks a much better bet ... Look forward to seeing some pointwork.

I'll second Anglian's opinion - glad bull-head came first.

Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Accu-track on January 03, 2013, 06:57:52 PM
 :hellosign:

My name is Andy Reichert and I only just came across this forum a coupla days ago. But I noticed the somewhat parallel track developments and thought I should mention that, due to being the designer/manufacturer for the US P:87 SIG, I was able a few years ago to scale down our very popular wide range of frogs and other track parts to "N" scale for those that were interested.

Since I'm technically a business, I've signed onto the forum as a manufacturer and am running a small banner ad (The Proto:87 Stores)which you may notice occasionally.

The web page is getting a little out of date, because I spend most of my time on product development, rather than sales, but it will give you an idea of what we already have.  Being a SIG guy, I always try to keep prices as low as possible, so does compensate somewhat for having to pay shipping and customs charges from the USA. But group orders usually fix that issue and I am already working on having UK distribution ready later this year.

Obviously the current products are of and for FB rail. But Bullhead versions of the frogs, etc., are no problem if there is interest. I already make similar parts for the HO plastic turnout base manufacturer, Central Valley, so if Wayne is interested, I may well be able to work with him in the same way to grow the N ranges here together as well, and save a lot of duplicate investment.

Sorry for the long introduction, but a lot of new thinking for track stuff has happened over here in the past few years.  If you'd like to take a few minutes to scan over the HO range on the web site too, you can see what could be coming down the pipe for N as well. Hopefully it will now be of help to all of you here in the UK.

Here's to a happy and exciting "N" ew Year!

Andy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on January 17, 2013, 04:41:16 PM
Just received my first batch of 10 metres of track.
This stuff is marvellous Wayne - thanks.
Can't wait for the pointwork to get down to track-laying in earnest!
Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 18, 2013, 10:12:03 AM
Hi Brian,

Glad you like it :)

The lost wax caster I am using has advised that he has now made the rubber mould of my master 1 in 6 frog, he is going to cast samples for me early next week. Hopefully this is it! :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: snes on January 18, 2013, 10:23:01 AM
Can somebody bring me up to speed please - I come from an era when points were 18" or 24" etc - I'm not fully conversant with this No6, No7 etc terminology.
Wayne, what angle points will you be making, and what would they be in old money?
Thanks!
Rick
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 18, 2013, 10:44:51 AM
Can somebody bring me up to speed please - I come from an era when points were 18" or 24" etc - I'm not fully conversant with this No6, No7 etc terminology.
Wayne, what angle points will you be making, and what would they be in old money?
Thanks!
Rick

#6, #7 etc are US terminology  - and US point geometry is different anyway. There isn't really a perfect translation between that and UK geometries (A6,  B6 etc)


Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Joe 90 on January 18, 2013, 10:57:00 AM
Hi Snes

This page from the 2mm Association website might help with the points terminology.

http://www.2mm.org.uk/mag0999/index.htm (http://www.2mm.org.uk/mag0999/index.htm)

Regards
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 18, 2013, 12:35:35 PM

The lost wax caster I am using has advised that he has now made the rubber mould of my master 1 in 6 frog, he is going to cast samples for me early next week. Hopefully this is it! :D


As well as a cast crossing will you be supplying pre-formed check-rails (cut, bent and shaped), ready formed blades and a simple robust tie bar mechanism?

The blades are a swine to file to shape and really need to be pre-formed to keep the kit easy and attractive. And having a decent working tie bar (to move the blades) is essential as motorising and actuating fine scale points can be problematic.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 18, 2013, 01:29:00 PM
Hi,

Unfortunately I do not have the time to pre file blades or precut and bend check rails for the kits, I'm afriad. What I am doing is designing a jig that can be purchased to aid in filing. Getting a supplier or machine shop to pre mill the blades would also be too expensive. The tie bar supplied will be copper clad, milled to shape with a hole for point motor. The user will solder the blades to the tie bar. They are of course free to use another tie bar method.

I have taken the kits about as far as I can really, I would love everything to be pre done, but there is only so much I can do. At least I have (hopefully) got the frog pre cast.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 18, 2013, 02:01:01 PM

The tie bar supplied will be copper clad, milled to shape with a hole for point motor. The user will solder the blades to the tie bar.


It's a blow not having the point kits kept as simply as possibly to construct as that might put people off them. Unfortunately there's a lot of 'enthusiasts' who simply don't want to undertake much (if any) modelling effort and may find the forming of tapered blades (and even check rails) quite difficult.

The snag with soldering blades to tie bars is that they don't last long and the joint soon fails as the blade should be able to pivot at the tie bar.

But I look forward to trying out one of the new kits as soon as they are available. And idea how long?

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karhedron on January 18, 2013, 02:06:39 PM
Would it be possible to investigate the option pre-milled point blades? I cannot speak for others but I would certainly be willing to pay extra for them.

Whilst I hope I don't fall into H's definition of an "enthusiast", I have found from past experience that my cosmetic modelling skills are a lot better than my mechanical ones. I much more confident of my ability to turn out a good paint job than I am to turn out a working point.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 18, 2013, 02:07:46 PM
I guess that may be more of a problem in N - in 2fs the blade doesn't have to move very far.

You can solder the blade ends to fine pins (eg track pins) passed through the tie bar. If you have a small hole below the tie bar it also allows you to solder the power feeds to the blades via the pins rather than trim them short.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on January 18, 2013, 02:17:46 PM
Hi Wayne

While I sympathise with your problem with the point blades is the answer not relatively simple ie increase the price?

I can't help thinking that the simpler the construction the more likely they are to sell, rather than being constrained by working down to a price. Like Grahame I think that pre-formed blades are pretty essential, otherwise you are just replicating Easitrac (with the relatively minor advantage of a slightly narrower gauge).

For your sake personally and for the wider N gauge community I would really like your project to be a success.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 18, 2013, 02:27:40 PM
I guess that may be more of a problem in N - in 2fs the blade doesn't have to move very far.

You can solder the blade ends to fine pins (eg track pins) passed through the tie bar. If you have a small hole below the tie bar it also allows you to solder the power feeds to the blades via the pins rather than trim them short.


Some 2mmFS modellers do solder blades directly to tie bars but even some of them have problems with the joints failing as it doesn't allow pivoting. And I've heard all sorts of strange complex mechanical solutions suggested.

Don't forget that the blade is wafer thin near the tie-bar making soldering difficult - and I also don't think I'd like to have to solder pins to them. It's bad enough trying to solder a complete thickness lump of rail to pins when using it for conductor rail.

It's certainly going to be tricky to solder the blade to the tie bar (or a pin to it) sufficiently strong enough without ending up with a blob of solder that prevents the blade nestling against the rail tightly or interferes with the flanges. :uneasy:

But it's probably best to see how it goes with a trail run of the first point kit. I'm keen that they should be a success to encourage finer N gauge layouts

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on January 18, 2013, 02:56:53 PM
Unfortunately there's a lot of 'enthusiasts' who simply don't want to undertake much (if any) modelling effort

H.
I don't think that is the case when it comes to code 40 track systems H.Those that don't want to go the extra mile are generally happy using code 80/55.
I would say the majority who are interested in this new code 40 track system want the kits to be as easy to build as possible simply because they may not feel (me included) that they have the skill to build the kit.
Who wants to pay say £13/14 for a kit with the greater chance of making a pigs ear of it..?.I would rather pay £20 and be able to make a good job of it
I think the general consensus and my own feeling is that we would be willing to pay extra to have the kits in an easy to build format as possible.
I don't know how much further Wayne would be able to take this,and how much extra it would add to the cost but maybe it could be investigated.....
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: moogle on January 18, 2013, 02:59:12 PM
Unfortunately there's a lot of 'enthusiasts' who simply don't want to undertake much (if any) modelling effort and may find the forming of tapered blades (and even check rails) quite difficult.

TBH I doubt they'd be buying track kits in the first place...

You never know though so obviously the less there is to do the more it will appeal.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on January 18, 2013, 03:12:40 PM

The lost wax caster I am using has advised that he has now made the rubber mould of my master 1 in 6 frog, he is going to cast samples for me early next week. Hopefully this is it! :D

Hi Wayne
Are you intending to stick at 1 in 6 or extend to other sizes? My design is based around 1 in 7s - might have to replot it all! What flange gap did you settle on in the end?

I am quite prepared to sort my own blades, crossings out if necessary.

Thanks Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 18, 2013, 03:42:40 PM
Hi Brain,

1 in 6 will be first, other angles will come after (1 in 7 being one of them).

I will look into the filing of blades, it maybe a can offer filed blades and an extra charge...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 18, 2013, 03:49:07 PM
Who wants to pay say £13/14 for a kit with the greater chance of making a pigs ear of it..?.I would rather pay £20 and be able to make a good job of it

I wouldn't be surprised if blade milling added at least £6. It's also worth remembering that there are people who build track as a profession. You can get your 2fs points pre-built for example if you are willing to pay for it.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 18, 2013, 03:58:22 PM

I don't think that is the case when it comes to code 40 track systems H.Those that don't want to go the extra mile are generally happy using code 80/55.


Maybe, but we want to encourage those people - and indeed all enthusiasts - to make the move to a finer scale. If they see it's an extra mile it'll definitely put them off, but if it's just a few yards . . . . .


I would say the majority who are interested in this new code 40 track system want the kits to be as easy to build as possible simply because they may not feel (me included) that they have the skill to build the kit.
Who wants to pay say £13/14 for a kit with the greater chance of making a pigs ear of it..?.I would rather pay £20 and be able to make a good job of it
I think the general consensus and my own feeling is that we would be willing to pay extra to have the kits in an easy to build format as possible.


Yep. Sounds like this is becoming a common thought. I think having easy to build kits will mean more will bother to try them. If it's thought to be difficult to start with, and is for first test one or two, people are less likely to come back and buy more for a complete layout. For example I've built some Easitrack points but haven't gone the whole hog as a result.

Many people aspire to 2mm FS but don't bother because of the effort/work required and the perceived difficulty, but it would be nice of they could move on to fine N gauge track with confidence and less effort.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 18, 2013, 04:03:30 PM

It's also worth remembering that there are people who build track as a profession. You can get your 2fs points pre-built for example if you are willing to pay for it.


I think most people realise that - you could have a whole layout built - but I'd rather be able to build them myself (so long as it's within my capabilities and not too difficult) for the satisfaction and enjoyment.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 18, 2013, 06:18:51 PM
NEW POLL ADDED!

Which would you prefer?

£15 for a turnout kit, switch blades require filing

or

£20 for a turnout kit, switch blades pre filed
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 18, 2013, 07:23:13 PM
I think most people realise that - you could have a whole layout built - but I'd rather be able to build them myself (so long as it's within my capabilities and not too difficult) for the satisfaction and enjoyment.

I'm not so sure they do - it does seem to surprise a lot of people. I'd rather build my own too but the question becomes how far do you want to go and how specalist I don't wind my own motors...

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thebrighton on January 18, 2013, 07:28:49 PM
NEW POLL ADDED!

Which would you prefer?

£15 for a turnout kit, switch blades require filing

or

£20 for a turnout kit, switch blades pre filed

My vote is cast but it may be worthwhile offering both options.
Gareth
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: intraclast on January 18, 2013, 07:59:33 PM
I would like to think I would be able to file the blades myself, but never having built a turnout before I don't know how difficult it is, so having the option of pre-filed blades would be great. Wayne, you mentioned you were designing a jig for the filing, you have any idea how much you would be charging for it? That might affect some peoples choice wouldn't it?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: moogle on January 19, 2013, 10:21:19 AM
I would like to think I would be able to file the blades myself, but never having built a turnout before I don't know how difficult it is, so having the option of pre-filed blades would be great. Wayne, you mentioned you were designing a jig for the filing, you have any idea how much you would be charging for it? That might affect some peoples choice wouldn't it?

It would mine. If the jig wasn't too expensive then you would recoup the difference in price if you were making several turnouts. That would make me plump for the £15 option instead of the £20 one!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 19, 2013, 12:24:29 PM
Having got the crossing sorted the next issue is the blade/tie bar pivot connection and operating mechanism. I'd be happy to pay £25 per point if the kit was kept simple, reliable and robust.

H.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 19, 2013, 12:38:02 PM

I'm not so sure they do - it does seem to surprise a lot of people.


They'd be pretty blinkered to be that unaware and I'd rather give the benefit of doubt and not think that many are quite that unsavvy. There's been plenty of threads on the forum about contractors, companies and individuals who offer livery painting, kit building, weathering and other modelling work. Plus a glance through the ads in RM and others would also give clues. There's even ads on the header of this page offering to carry out modelling. . . but hey ho.


 I'd rather build my own too but the question becomes how far do you want to go and how specalist I don't wind my own motors...


Quite - thats why there is feedback and comment here about having cast crossings, pre-formed blades, and, hopefully a suitable tie bar mechanism. Hopefully, it will be a kit that still needs to be built, but will be kept manageable and attractive to a majority (and therefore a success), rather than the preserve of a few that do enjoy winding their own motors (and a failure).  :)

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: workwright on January 23, 2013, 03:07:00 PM
Hi,  I think your original price suggestion of £15 max is as much as the market will stand.
Your kit is using code 40 rail.Filing the blade is a few moments work with the correct file- swiss, flat, smooth cut, and kept for this job.  You can always put a joggle in the stock rail to make results more certain- good pair of box jointed flat nosed pliers and a sliver of 10/15 thou brass to press against and form the joggle. 
It strikes me that many readers really want a ready made turnout, that is not the purpose of this topic. Wayne has delivered a track system that assembles quite easily without any jigs, with a jig it would assemble quickly. I am sure he is to be trusted to deliver a turnout kit that is possible with a similar level of skill to build.
I have some suggestions, one you all buy a copy of"Track" a very helpful NEW manual on how to build 2mm track with many super sections on how to do things, how to file switch rails, how to make simple jigs from hinges, what sort of tools to buy.  (I am a member of the 2mm assoc, but otherwise no connection)  I purchased it as my Xmas present from one of the kids, it is a real boost to ones confidence, having read it I am sure all of you will have a real feeling of "Yes I can do this"
The two elements Wayne must address in his turnout kits it how long is each bit of rail has to be, if you want to put a joggle in your stock rails at what distance should it be.  If you know these lengths the turnout will build and it will work.  The tie bar is the other area to look at. It is discussed at length in the above book.  Simply soldered to a copper clad tie bar, the joints with the switch rails will fail quickly.  The book contains many suggestions. The best two are- accurately bend thin wire and solder it to the switch rail lower side this pivots in the tie bar (looks tricky to do at the start but very cheap) The second method is make a simple jig to file a 12BA brass cheesehead bolt into a support for the switch rail which is soldered into the remains of the slot.( looks easier and more robust but you are going to have to make a simple jig, 20p for the bolts £1 for the jig)
In conclusion I do not think we should expect Wayne to deliver more than is available  to the 2mm assoc member if they want to built a turnout, in a way he is promising more, pre-fabricated crossings.  Take my word for it these are the real timesaver and most demanding of skill.  He suggests that different geometries will be offered in time, that is better than most rtr turnouts and crossings where whatever their radii of the turnout the crossing is fixed usually A6. Regards, Malcolm.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 23, 2013, 03:41:28 PM

Filing the blade is a few moments work with the correct file


Having made several Easitrac points and filed the blades I didn't find it only a 'few moments work'.


The tie bar is the other area to look at. It is discussed at length in the above book.  Simply soldered to a copper clad tie bar, the joints with the switch rails will fail quickly.


Yep, I've already made that point.


In conclusion I do not think we should expect Wayne to deliver more than is available  to the 2mm assoc member if they want to built a turnout,


Why not? I disagree - I get the impression that many do expect more/better and easier than is available to 2mm SA members. I certainly expect it, otherwise I could just use Easitrac to build N gauge points (and have).

I think that if it is to appeal to N gauge modellers, rather than 2mm modellers, then it needs to be simpler and easier than a 2mm SA member could build with the associations parts. And it certainly does seem to be targetted at N gauge modelers who want better looking track, but don't want the bother of switching to 2mm finescale and all the work that involves.

Being 9mm gauge it certainly won't appeal to 2mm fine-scale modellers. So it does need to be attractive to aspiring N gauge enthusiasts.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karhedron on January 23, 2013, 03:46:41 PM
I think that if it is to appeal to N gauge modellers, rather than 2mm modellers, then it needs to be simpler and easier than a 2mm SA member could build with the associations parts. And it certainly does seem to be targetted at N gauge modelers who want better looking track, but don't want the bother of switching to 2mm finescale and all the work that involves.
I agree. I am competent enough to put together a kit but I am not confident of my ability to reliably make parts accurately enough. I am looking for something that is an improvement over RTR offerings without going the whole way to 2mm FS.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 23, 2013, 05:02:24 PM
Excellent comments and input, guys. I am looking into a few things :)

Been over a year of work so far ;)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 25, 2013, 01:36:49 PM
Little update,

Just got off the phone to the caster, he said that he has now made nickel silver samples of the 1 in 6 frog and that he thinks they have came out ok. I should get them Monday/Tuesday, I'll post some pics once I get them.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: workwright on January 26, 2013, 10:43:49 AM
Hi, thanks for your comments H and Karhedron.  I am sticking to my point of view and suggest again the use of jigs as per the 2mm assoc.  I also restate my plug for this book "Track" they have just published. It really is an invaluable to any constructor, what ever their experience. Regards.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: alibuchan on January 26, 2013, 11:04:18 AM
have you managed to sort out the online payment for your web site.

I dont have a cheque book so cant get any track yet  :'(

Alistair
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 26, 2013, 11:53:40 AM
Hi Alistair,

Not just yet, sorry. I am currently awaiting a sagepay application first for my other business (camera accessories) as our current HSBC card processing sucks a little.

Only after this can I make a new application with sagepay for the british finescale website.

I can accept a bank transfer if you would like to order sooner.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on January 28, 2013, 11:57:48 AM
Hi,  I think your original price suggestion of £15 max is as much as the market will stand.

Hi Malcolm

I am interested in why you think that?  Wayne is proposing a product that is a niche, "finescale" (not in the 2mm FS way) product which is accurate and looks a lot better than anything RTR - why should that not be considerably more expensive?  Certainly the P4 track co kits which this is the closest thing to are considerably more than £15 (they are £30 - 35).

It strikes me that many readers really want a ready made turnout, that is not the purpose of this topic.

I disagree, I think what many would like is a simple, well made kit.

In conclusion I do not think we should expect Wayne to deliver more than is available  to the 2mm assoc member if they want to built a turnout

Actually I think this is the key point (no pun intended), as many do appear to want more than is available from the 2mm Association (otherwise why would they not just use Easitrac and build the points to 9mm?).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on January 28, 2013, 12:59:56 PM
Hi,  I think your original price suggestion of £15 max is as much as the market will stand.

Hi Malcolm

I am interested in why you think that?  Wayne is proposing a product that is a niche, "finescale" (not in the 2mm FS way) product which is accurate and looks a lot better than anything RTR - why should that not be considerably more expensive?  Certainly the P4 track co kits which this is the closest thing to are considerably more than £15 (they are £30 - 35).

It strikes me that many readers really want a ready made turnout, that is not the purpose of this topic.

I disagree, I think what many would like is a simple, well made kit.

In conclusion I do not think we should expect Wayne to deliver more than is available  to the 2mm assoc member if they want to built a turnout

Actually I think this is the key point (no pun intended), as many do appear to want more than is available from the 2mm Association (otherwise why would they not just use Easitrac and build the points to 9mm?).

Cheers, Mike

Spot on Red Death......... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: GerryB on January 28, 2013, 02:00:23 PM
Well said, Red Death, you are absolutely right.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Gerry
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: workwright on January 29, 2013, 06:06:48 PM
Hi, what a lot of interesting comments.  I have read and re-read them and i have attempted a summary, a specification. Many want an easy to assemble turnout kit composed of preformed track parts that assembles easily to give a durable turnout of good scale appearance that works first time with little or no tweaking.  Some suggest that cost should be high because of the unique nature of the product.  I would suggest that by meeting all these conditions (I trust I have not misrepresented anyone)it might be possible to produce the kit but not profitably.  The time taken to produce and pack the parts will be excessive for Mr Kinney and his profit will be low compared to the greater profit a simpler specification would generate.
To make money the selling price has to fit into the market, where currently this product will be unique. This is difficult. If the retail is too much you sell a few. The consequence is that you do not recover your development time and money. If it is too cheap you might not be able to produce enough to meet demand, again you fail to make a profit. 
To pitch the price right tricky, but I would suggest a good result is more easily achieved by keeping the time input into producing and packing each kit low. There will be already be many costs to recover, the turnout bases, the 3D router and tooling that produces them, the cast crossing units, the tie bar assembly development.... 
I just want Mr Kinney to have success with his products, I want him to be rewarded for delivering a new product that grows in its use and yields a growing profit. He will then be able to go on and gradually deliver to the market different types of crossing and turnout. Regards, Malcolm.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 30, 2013, 09:08:31 AM
Lost Wax Cast Frog Update :)

OK, I have received Nickel Silver cast samples. I have:

1x 'master' which has been cast directly - not from a mould so a 2nd generation copy.
6x 'copies' which has been cast from wax copies from a rubber mould - 4th generation copy.

The 'master' I am very happy with. Good definition and dimensions and has retained its shape well.

The copies are not too bad, but have imperfections and flashing from the rubber mould. They are not consistent either, some better than others.

There are some good positives from these samples - The cast NS matches the colour of the rail really well. Also, it has proven that, even though tiny with thin parts, this part casts fine.

Ideally I would like to cast directly from sacraficial 3D printed masters, but I went the rubber mould route due to the cost.

However, I had a bit of a breakthrough last night in terms of 3D printing costs and this has opened up doors. This would mean casting without the need for rubber moulds, much better quality. It will depend on if the caster can 'burn out' the 3D printed plastic material.

I might hold off on photos until I try this out, but I am quite confident :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 30, 2013, 09:45:28 AM

 I would suggest that by meeting all these conditions (I trust I have not misrepresented anyone)it might be possible to produce the kit but not profitably.  The time taken to produce and pack the parts will be excessive for Mr Kinney and his profit will be low compared to the greater profit a simpler specification would generate.


What makes you think that the profit for a decently specified kit will be low (or even unprofitable) - it will depend on price and sales. Currently many are saying they want a high specced product and are prepared to pay for it. That type of product and pricing model seems to work for other scale specialist point kits.

What makes you think a lower specced (and presumably lower quality product) will generate greater profit. That doesn't follow. I certainly won't buy it on that basis, especially if it means the same level of expertese and work is required to construct it as building an Easitrac point to N gauge. I'll just stick with Easitrac.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on January 30, 2013, 10:05:24 AM
I think we are all singing from the same hymn sheet here Malcolm.....just looking at it from different angles.
We all want this to be successful and for Wayne to reap the rewards for all his hard work,but i don't think even Wayne envisions "Making a Profit" any time soon.Those of us who are suggesting that a higher price would be worth paying do so, so we get a quality product that is easy to assemble without any setbacks because corners have been cut on costs, that way we can get some layouts built and get this product into the wider N Gauge community.True some people would find the higher costs prohibitive,but i would suggest many more would be put off if corners were cut and there were problems with the product from the outset.
Lets get it right first time,pay what it is going to cost to get it right,get this product out to a wider audience and then hopefully Wayne can recoup his outlay,start to make a profit and maybe then look at ways of reducing costs.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on January 30, 2013, 10:28:15 AM
I would actually like to see Wayne do very well on this as he has taken a considerable risk. I don't see why Wayne can't have a reasonably high margin on a high price kit!

Some seem to be fixating on a low price to compete with the likes of Peco (RRP for a Peco large radius point is about £13).  To me that is not the market that Wayne is competing with.  The market Wayne is trying to capture is people who want something better than Peco but don't really want to go the whole hog of completely building from scratch (either copper clad or Easitrac adapted to 9mm) and I don't see why those people shouldn't be prepared to pay for it.

As Dock Shunter says I think we are all singing from the same hymn sheet really.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: workwright on January 31, 2013, 04:45:31 PM
Hi, I am still wondering if some of the commentators might possible be encouraging Mr Kinney up a road that worries me   "What makes you think that the profit for a decently specified kit will be low (or even unprofitable) - it will depend on price and sales." as "H" wrote yesterday.  What makes me think is 35 years of experince in developing and producing very high spec kits in a model railway niche.  My kits rely on subcontracted parts (like Wayne's crossings) made to my masters.  Lots of hard to source materials (like the code 40 rail Wayne will have to stock) , exhaustive instructions like these turnouts will require if they are to be newcomer proof.  Last of all time to machine kit components and pack them.  Then because  pricing depends on your competitors, being content with what ever profit can be found. The ebst advice I was ever given was "Try to retail at 3x the cost of your inputs"
My market is about the size of the 2mm one. 3000 members of whom about 1800 are active and my offers appeal to about 120 who are attracted by really accurate scale models. Usually over the years I will sell 150 -250 of the most successful items and sometimes only 15 of products people in the group have encouraged me to realise.  So to finish this my final thought on the turnout topic. Can we all try to lead Wayne to the 150 -250 zone not the 15 one. Regards, Malcolm.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on January 31, 2013, 05:04:29 PM

 What makes me think is 35 years of experince in developing and producing very high spec kits in a model railway niche.


Snag is that 35 years of 'developing and producing' kits is not the same as getting the price right and making sales and profit. There are manufacturers who do manage to develop and make high spec kits, and then price and sell them sucessfully. CJM has a very sucessfull hi-spec niche, selling at high prices within the N gauge market.

The N gauge market is significantly larger than the 2mm market and a decent finescale looking point kit product will be attractive to more of them if it is engineered to keep it simple. If that means being hi-spec than that what it really needs to be, otherwise the market it will appeal to will be very small.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: workwright on February 01, 2013, 05:24:06 PM
Hi, what a strange co-incidence H that you should mention CJM.  Many years ago I supplied that guy with loads on scale catenary when he got a commission to build a couple of Chunnel terminals in N scale  forTransmanche.Perhaps I have down played my business.  I have made some money and stayed in business when during the last 35 years at least 15 others have come into the same market,  then crashed and burned.  Usually for the reason of not pricing their product correctly and secondly for taking more orders than they can handle.
I just want Mr Kinney to succeed and that success encourage him to complete his range.  Then I can build my railway.  Smeaton Junction to Ormiston, so far I have some stock and have built one of the three collierys that need to be modelled.  It joined end on with the Giffford Light Railway for which I was wondering do I have the record for having the longest pre-order with Hattons for two Bacfar Ivatt 2mt locos? I think it at least 5 years ago I ordered the first, the second one was at £58.
These were the last steam engines I saw on the line as a teenager in 1964. The Smeaton Junction layout was interesting. It had a diamond crossing where the two single line branches met. 
I really hope Mr Kinney delivers  those crossings. When coal was still dug in East  Lothian Smeaton junction was a busy place with black 5s, WDs and J35/36/37s. I dont suppose I will see any of the latter Js RTR in my lifetime.  My N/2mm is just relaxation, the retirement business is 16mm live steam. regards, Malcolm.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on February 01, 2013, 06:12:12 PM
I was wondering do I have the record for having the longest pre-order with Hattons for two Bacfar Ivatt 2mt locos? I think it at least 5 years ago I ordered the first, the second one was at £58.

Is it true that Hattons would be obliged to sell you those locos at that price if they were ever to be released Malcom....?

Your railway sounds very interesting and i look forward to seeing it someday
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karhedron on February 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Is it true that Hattons would be obliged to sell you those locos at that price if they were ever to be released Malcom....?
No, they are not obliged to honour the pre-order price. It is an offer, not a legally binding contract. If they had taken your money at the time of the order then they would be obliged to honour it. But legally, no money has changed hands so no contract exists.

However, it is in Hattons interest to honour the pre-order price. They would lose a lot of goodwill if they failed to do so and know that people would switch to other retailers. I have not heard of them failing to honour a pre-order before.

Having said that, the long gestation of the Ivatt 2MT does mean that the final price may be higher above the pre-order price than anything before so it is possible they may claim entenuating circumstances (although I hope not as I have one on pre-order too).
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Accu-track on February 01, 2013, 08:18:37 PM
I guess I'm confused.

I'm supplying N scale pre-machined points (code 40 or code 55, angled for for #4-6 or #7-10), Nickel silver frogs in kit or assembled form, (all sizes from #4 all the way  up to #10). Points hinges with no moving parts that just glue down, and kit stretcher bars. Plus code 40 or 55 rail and wooden sleepers that you can space to UK templates just glue all the parts to.  Or everything together as a full, just glue together turnout kit.

All for the past several years and all the prices are about the same as  those being discussed here as minimum, that apparently no-one here can afford to make that inexpensively at all.

If that isn't what you want, what is?

Andy Reichert



Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: snes on February 01, 2013, 09:45:00 PM
Andy
I looked at your site after your previous post - and found your products to be simply stunning. However, I agreed with your comments at the time that the site needed updating, and I did find it hard to drill down exactly I would need to order to make up a point kit.

Part of this is down to me being a dummy, of course.

But come back to this forum, publicise your offering, "dummy" proof the n section of your site, and I am sure folks will beat a path to your door. You have a truly quality product!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on February 01, 2013, 10:44:50 PM

If that isn't what you want, what is?


British style trackwork with correct 1:148 sleeper size and spacing (the track in that website looks rather American style with sleepers too closely spaced and 1:160 scale). Also although I have seen those crossings before (and they are very nice) they do need assembling whereas many N gauge enthusiasts here want something rather more simple with reduced complexity of construction (i.e. cast or preassembled crossing/frog, pre-filed blades, pre-formed/shaped check rails, easy assemble tie bar, etc).

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 02, 2013, 09:55:52 AM
I guess I'm confused.

I'm supplying N scale pre-machined points (code 40 or code 55, angled for for #4-6 or #7-10), Nickel silver frogs in kit or assembled form, (all sizes from #4 all the way  up to #10). Points hinges with no moving parts that just glue down, and kit stretcher bars. Plus code 40 or 55 rail and wooden sleepers that you can space to UK templates just glue all the parts to.  Or everything together as a full, just glue together turnout kit.

All for the past several years and all the prices are about the same as  those being discussed here as minimum, that apparently no-one here can afford to make that inexpensively at all.

If that isn't what you want, what is?

Andy Reichert

[url]http://www.proto87.com/n-scale-track.html[/url] ([url]http://www.proto87.com/n-scale-track.html[/url])


Hi Andy,

If you would like to advertise your products, could you respectfully do so in your own thread, please.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Roy L S on February 02, 2013, 12:21:19 PM
Andy
I looked at your site after your previous post - and found your products to be simply stunning. However, I agreed with your comments at the time that the site needed updating, and I did find it hard to drill down exactly I would need to order to make up a point kit.

Part of this is down to me being a dummy, of course.

But come back to this forum, publicise your offering, "dummy" proof the n section of your site, and I am sure folks will beat a path to your door. You have a truly quality product!

I have to agree, Andy's has the look of a quality product, but for me Wayne's looks more suitable for British 1:148, not least because he is producing track with "Bullhead" rail which threads into proper chairs, and points which will complement it.
I think it will find it's own new market amongst more discerning British N modellers who nonetheless do not want to go for 2mmFS.

On the subject of "Finetrax". I have experimented pretty extensively with my first few panels of "Finetrax" and have found most locos (including Union Mills) run perfectly well on it, and it can be formed into pretty sharp (9 inch radius) curves with no difficulty. The look of it simply bears no comparison to Peco Code 55 - "Finetrax" is so much better.

To attract a wider market I would still suggest thought be given to a means of connecting rail lengths that does not involve wire  "droppers" and holes in the baseboard as soldering accurately without solder impeding the inner rail surface is a challenge for those like me less skilled with an iron, and also melting the bases ditto.

As to points, there is no sense in comparing to a Peco RTR product. What Wayne is proposing is a niche and much more protoypical "British" looking point. I would personally prefer a kit as "idiot proof" as possible and as far as possible with everything needed in the box machined and ready to assemble. It is not simply that would I pay more for this, it could be a "buy/no buy" decision. Much better pay £20 for a kit I can easily assemble with minimal risk of failure than £15 for one I make a mess of and then don't buy again.

In both cases I would recommend instructions that cover all key assembly issues with tips on how to get best results.

These are only my thoughts, and I am sure others will have different views.

Roy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karyn on February 03, 2013, 06:52:06 PM
I'm sorry if these are noob type questions, but...


Will my collection of assorted rolling stock run on this with the standard wheels or would I have to replace them all?


I'm looking at Peco 55 but you guys seem to say the sleepers are to thick.  Surely the ballast hides the thickness of the sleepers?  What about the nice thin sleepers in Wayne's track?  How would you ballast it without burying them?

What about rail joiners?

And then there's points,  would these kits (when they're ready) be too much for a novice builder to make look good (and work)?


I can see that it is fantastic track and I'd love to use it on Lincoln St Marks but I'm worried that its beyond my skill level to make it look any good.



K
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on February 05, 2013, 10:17:28 AM
Will my collection of assorted rolling stock run on this with the standard wheels or would I have to replace them all?
All of my models seem to run fine on it, although I don't have any of the very old 'pizza cutter' wheels.  And, in my opinion, if you do have stock with these then that would be the best place to spend money rather than better track.  You could always get a little bit of Wayne's track and give it a go. :)

I'm looking at Peco 55 but you guys seem to say the sleepers are to thick.  Surely the ballast hides the thickness of the sleepers?  What about the nice thin sleepers in Wayne's track?  How would you ballast it without burying them?
That depends on where the track is.  For mainline with deep ballast then, yes, what you say is true and the thickness of the sleepers is less important.  However, if you want to model bare track, or minimally ash ballasted track in a yard then you will be able to see the sleepers.  Also, it's not just the sleepers themselves, the move to Code 40 bullhead rail with properly modelled chairs and some daylight between the bottom of the rail and the top of the sleepers is most of the visual improvement over Peco track.  All of these changes are visible whatever the ballasting situation.

What about rail joiners?
These aren't used - You can solder the joints or just align the tracks correctly when sticking it down.  This is one reason why sharp corners might be tricky because getting a continuous curve through the join is hard if the join can't support any bending moment.  I'm thinking that I will use fiNetrax for visible areas (where there are no small radii) and use up my peco track in hidden areas.  Others may have good ideas for solving this though.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Fratton on February 05, 2013, 10:53:50 AM
There's a method with Orribly Oversized rail where you cut short one rail at equal lengths and some sleepers so one rail protrudes out, then you thread the two rails onto the chairs of the opposing sections making sure you ore and the rail to te required curvature, one thing with code 40 is its more playable than the peco rail, I'm hoping to test the curved join with my sample I have ordered,
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on February 05, 2013, 12:02:14 PM
There's a method with Orribly Oversized rail where you cut short one rail at equal lengths and some sleepers so one rail protrudes out, then you thread the two rails onto the chairs of the opposing sections making sure you ore and the rail to te required curvature, one thing with code 40 is its more playable than the peco rail, I'm hoping to test the curved join with my sample I have ordered,

Thats how I did my easitrac joins even on the straight bits. It works for that so should work well for the N gauge equivalent.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on February 05, 2013, 07:49:50 PM


Will my collection of assorted rolling stock run on this with the standard wheels or would I have to replace them all?

K

There is, of course, more to this than simply the flange depth that has been commented on already. There is the matter of flange gaps in the pointwork ... do they match the back-to-back measurements of your existing wheels. I haven't noticed whether Wayne has finalised the dimension he will be using (0.77, 0.8 and 1.0 mm have all been mentioned). Doesn't sound much - but can make a lot of difference,  especially when nearly every set of wheels you pick up (even on the same model!) are different!

Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 07, 2013, 09:18:51 AM
Hi Guys,

I thought I would post some pics of the Nickel Silver Lost Wax Cast Frog that I first had done (sorry about the quality of the pics, the white balance of the camera is completely off):

1 in 6 with 0.85mm flangeway...

(http://www.shoot35.com/DSC_5577.JPG)
(http://www.shoot35.com/DSC_5581.JPG)
(http://www.shoot35.com/DSC_5584.JPG)
(http://www.shoot35.com/DSC_5570.JPG)
(http://www.shoot35.com/DSC_5580.JPG)

Not easily seen in the images but there is actually representation of bullhead section which matches well with the actual rail.

Today I should receive a batch of 20 3D printed frogs to send to the caster, I am hoping he will have no issues burning out the plastic material.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Newportnobby on February 07, 2013, 09:23:36 AM
Looking good, Wayne, and good luck with the casting :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on February 07, 2013, 09:45:37 AM
Looks very neat.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: GerryB on February 07, 2013, 03:57:34 PM
Looks promising.

Gerry
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on February 08, 2013, 07:44:50 AM
Looks good - very promising.

Just a thought - would it be possible for future to extend the running rail V slightly beyond the check rails to bring the rail joint into clear space to make track laying a tad easier?

Poised to order anyway ....

Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 15, 2013, 10:24:51 AM
The caster now has 2x 3D printed samples (printed plastic, not wax, as its much cheaper).

He will test this out next week but he believes there should be no trouble with burn out of the plastic material.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: moogle on February 15, 2013, 12:44:19 PM
Nice frog casting.
I'm looking forward to seeing the finished points.
 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 20, 2013, 05:30:10 PM
Hi Guys,

Just a couple of snaps of a half built diamond crossing showing how the cast frog blends with the nickel silver rail. The alignment into the holes is perfect :)

(http://www.shoot35.com/DSC00176.jpg)
(http://www.shoot35.com/DSC00179.jpg)

The top of the cast rails is just slightly under the other rails which will be solved in the next cast. Also, the section of the rail (the head, web and foot) doesn't quite match the rest of the rail so I am also tweaking this. I am pretty happy with the colour match, though.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Newportnobby on February 20, 2013, 05:57:14 PM
 :hmmm:
Do you do trade in? I have a load of Peco code 55 :laugh:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 20, 2013, 07:52:40 PM
Keep it for ya fiddley yard :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 27, 2013, 10:04:02 AM
Does anyone know where/how I could get rail joiners/fish plates manufactured to fit the code 40 bullhead rail?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on February 27, 2013, 11:37:24 AM
You could possible etch them and then fold up.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on February 27, 2013, 11:42:17 AM
You could possible etch them and then fold up.

You need very thin strong metal for them - you can etch cosmetic ones (and indeed the 2mmSA does some) but not I suspect "functional" ones.

Why do you need them - with code 40 rail and plastic bases it'll stay where you put it so you can just butt the rail up with expansion gaps. The idea of trusting your track to just stay put may be a bit foreign to N gauge but it certainly works in 2mm.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 27, 2013, 11:52:03 AM
There is another reason I wish to get joiners manufactured, and its to do with switch blades (I am still looking into switch blades as many have requested).

Any ideas as to what manufacturing process is used to make standard fish plates?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on February 27, 2013, 12:02:57 PM
I'm not really sure how they are produced - some of them appear to be stamped but the peco ones look like they were etched as a flat sheet, pinned down somehow and then stamped around a former before being split into small groups and packed (or they are formed in the lengths in the packet). Not sure how and if any of that would work with such a fine rail though.

I take it you are thinking about pivoting the blades in two parts like the old Peco points used to rather than just letting the thin rail bend as 2fs does ?


The
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 27, 2013, 12:40:48 PM
Thanks for the info.

I thought you might think that (about the pivoting) but no. The idea would be to have the planned length of the switch (about 16mm long) as a lost wax cast section, then firmly joined to the rest of the 'normal' rail via the joiner/fish plate.

I just don't fancy having to batch file the blades myself, and could imagine a machine shop would like to take on such a challenge. I don't really know :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on February 27, 2013, 01:54:43 PM
Does anyone know where/how I could get rail joiners/fish plates manufactured to fit the code 40 bullhead rail?

Not sure what sort you're thinking of, but some of the best in 4mm are the Exactoscale plastic ones, IMHO.  I have a suspicion these might not translate into N that well (they're delicate enough in 4mm) but you might like to assess the idea of moulding something similar if you've not already done so.

If you've not seen any, I could bung a sprue in the post?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Fratton on February 27, 2013, 01:56:49 PM
i saw H shaped ones somewhere that look almost prototypical, and if you make them from plastic they can be insulating,,,,
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: workwright on February 28, 2013, 05:35:26 PM
Hi, no doubt this post will get a poor response from some ,but I feel that it is necessary.  You delivered a flex track system on time and on budget.  I assume it is selling well- it deserves too. 
While some of the contributers were doubtful about some of my previous comments about the forth coming turnouts I only made them to avoid you (Wayne) being distracted.  I know, as a manufacturer myself that some projects are going to require a level of investment that cannot be justified.  To manufacture code 40 fishplates is one such example. Peco will manufacture theirs in 2 or three press tools. 1 stamps out the pre-developed shape. 2 folds the blank into a U. 3 holds the U whilst the sides are crimped to grip the rail web.  The tools will do the whole sprue at once.  These tools each require a bolster to hold them in the press and design.  Tool 3 will be really quite complex and given the small web thickness relative to Peco code "55" very delicate.  I would think too delicate to be durable and easily and cheaply made.  I have had press tools made in the past (20-30 years ago). Then a simple tool  and bolster would be £180-£250 so today....   
I think you are being distracted by unrealistic demands from a section of the market.  Producers of similar products to yours in larger scales charge a reasonable amount for a bag of sleepers, rail, and sprues of chairs (eg Cand L finescale) and a lot more for pre-filed blades and crossing parts, and even more for what some seem to want. Which is totally formed components that assemble to a working point.  They sell most of the simple kit and YOU have already exceeded by a long way the simple spec by offering a preformed crossing.
Unfortunately I would not encourage you to go down the road of the high spec kit.  I would deliver the simple spec turnout kit, see if it sells, and then start to offer a higher speced kit if the sales justify it.  I do not think it is going to be profitable for you to deliver high speced kits first.  Peco don't offer kits I think, because if you make it that easy to make a turnout why not sell it ready to lay and not miss out on any of the possible profit? Regards, M
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on February 28, 2013, 05:51:23 PM

Unfortunately I would not encourage you to go down the road of the high spec kit.  I would deliver the simple spec turnout kit, see if it sells, and then start to offer a higher speced kit if the sales justify it.  I do not think it is going to be profitable for you to deliver high speced kits first. 


Agreed
Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on February 28, 2013, 06:59:02 PM
Whilst I do agree that you (a) cannot appeal to everyone and (b) need to avoid overstretching on the spec for thee points, the only drawback with releasing the simple point kit, i.e. file your own switchblade for example, is that they may not sell very well. There are those who want everything easy, but there will be many that don't have the confidence or skill to build the more advanced kits, but want to build their own track...and it will be to this market that this track system will appeal.

It is a fine balance for Wayne to judge, but from a personal point of view I will be ordering 6 points when they are available...but that depends on whether or not I can construct them. Selfish  point of view? Of course, but that is my motivation when buying this track...I strongly suspect I am not alone in this respect
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: GerryB on February 28, 2013, 08:01:16 PM





 Selfish  point of view? Of course, but that is my motivation when buying this track...I strongly suspect I am not alone in this respect

You certainly are not, Claude. The attraction for me of the track system that Wayne is providing is its 'ease of use'.

I am already well on the way to completing the 20ft of track I've bought from Wayne, and am looking forward to the point kits making their appearance. However I am hoping they will be as 'user friendly' as Wayne can make them.

I make no apology for asking Wayne to do what he can to make the kits easy/foolproof to construct.  I for one would be prepared to pay the market price for such a kit - much the same as modelers in 4mm or 7mm do when purchasing kits from C & L, which are not cheap compared to 'Peco' etc...

Gerry

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 14, 2013, 09:34:17 AM
Hi Guys,

Been a couple of week since I posted. Getting this crossing/frog cast with the right process at the right price is tough!

I would like opinion on the following prices:

Turnout kits, with cast crossing/frog, pre joggled stock rails, pre planed/ground switch blades soldered to tie bar- £18e
Diamond Crossing Kit, with 2x cast crossings/frog & 2x cast K crossings - £24e

Your input would be appreciated.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on March 14, 2013, 10:35:05 AM
Wayne

Sounds more than reasonable! I still think you are under-selling yourself.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mike W on March 14, 2013, 11:00:52 AM
Those prices sound fine to me, I'll definitely consider this for my next layout.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on March 14, 2013, 11:06:34 AM
Those look to me like "beating your door down to get them" prices.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on March 14, 2013, 11:25:18 AM
Wayne

 I still think you are under-selling yourself.

Cheers, Mike

Those look to me like "beating your door down to get them" prices.

Alan


Have to agree with both Mike and Alan.Having built and laid a few meters of the plain track and seeing the quality of it, i feel that getting the points kits manufactured to the best standard possible is vitally important....if that adds a few quid to the prices you are quoting Wayne, then so be it. :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karhedron on March 14, 2013, 11:51:54 AM
Those prices look fine to me. Only 50% more than Peco for what is looking to be a seriously superior product.  :photospleasesign: :thankyousign:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thebrighton on March 14, 2013, 11:56:52 AM
That's a cracking price for what you're getting!
Gareth
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Fratton on March 14, 2013, 12:19:50 PM
When i first read this thread and answered the polls i answered no more than £15

but as the thread has gone on and the amount of craftsmanship and level of community involvement in the process i have to say i that £18 is more than reasonable for what is clearly an exciting product,,,,,

i cant wait to try making one
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 14, 2013, 02:44:20 PM
Thanks Guys,

Good to hear :) I have gone the route of getting the frogs 3D printed directly in wax, very detailed and high quality prints ready for directly investing in Nickel Silver - bypasses the need for a rubber mould but is more expensive. I have been negotiating with the 3D printing company and managed to get the price to where its workable in the budget.

I believe I now have everything in hand to get these kits finished and released. Switch Blades will be pre filed/planed/ground and soldered to a black carbon fibre tie bar with pivoting pins.

I still need to make instructions and wiring diagrams which is also time consuming.

Who wants to be a beta tester bunny for me? :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: GerryB on March 14, 2013, 02:55:47 PM
Sorry Wayne, I don't fancy being your 'beta tester' - but will certainly be one of your first customers once the product is ready for market.

Gerry
 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 14, 2013, 03:39:52 PM
No worries Gerry.

I should clarify that I was going to send the kit to any testers free of charge :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on March 14, 2013, 04:15:45 PM
Thanks Guys,

Good to hear :) I have gone the route of getting the frogs 3D printed directly in wax, very detailed and high quality prints ready for directly investing in Nickel Silver - bypasses the need for a rubber mould but is more expensive. I have been negotiating with the 3D printing company and managed to get the price to where its workable in the budget.

I believe I now have everything in hand to get these kits finished and released. Switch Blades will be pre filed/planed/ground and soldered to a black carbon fibre tie bar with pivoting pins.

I still need to make instructions and wiring diagrams which is also time consuming.

Who wants to be a beta tester bunny for me? :D

That's starting to sound very good. I like the idea of including a pre-soldered tie bar.

I'm certainly considering volunteering.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Fratton on March 14, 2013, 04:25:15 PM
I would love to beta test but sadly i have too many commitments to juggle already, cant wait to see the results of those who do,,,
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on March 14, 2013, 05:25:20 PM
Who wants to be a beta tester bunny for me? :D

Happy to do so if it helps.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thebrighton on March 14, 2013, 06:54:51 PM


Who wants to be a beta tester bunny for me? :D

I'd quite happily be a guinea pig and I'm just along the road in Eastbourne.
Gareth
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karyn on March 14, 2013, 09:35:57 PM
Hi Wayne

I'll happily beta test for you.

Quote
Switch Blades will be pre filed/planed/ground and soldered to a black carbon fibre tie bar with pivoting pins.

How do you solder to carbon fibre?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 14, 2013, 09:40:34 PM
Hi Guys,

Writing down all you volunteers! :D

The carbon fibre tie bar will have 2 metal  pivoting pins, the switch rails will be soldered to the pins.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on March 15, 2013, 10:23:12 AM
Hi Wayne - Glad to hear that the project is going well.
I'm also very happy to try building a point kit if you still want volunteers.

By the way - I've been having lots of fun with your old B9 printer, have a look here:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66521-and-who-says-that-home-3d-printing-cant-do-detail/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66521-and-who-says-that-home-3d-printing-cant-do-detail/)

Best wishes,
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on March 15, 2013, 11:46:19 AM
I would be willing to have a go too if you haven't already got enough volunteers Wayne...... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Phil Hendry on March 15, 2013, 11:28:04 PM
Well, I'm a confirmed Peco Code 55 addict, but am happy to try anything...  Just starting to think about building a tiny layout, consisting of a nuclear flask terminal thing, like Dungeness or perhaps Trawsfynydd, for which some 'experimental' hand-laid track might be fun.  So if you haven't got enough volunteers, I'm happy to have a go at 'beta-testing'.

Cheers,
Phil
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 16, 2013, 11:06:32 AM
Hi Guys,

Thanks for your offers, I have sent you all PM's. All 'BETA' positions now full...hahaha!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on March 16, 2013, 11:31:14 AM
All 'BETA' positions now full...hahaha!
That's a shame as I was about to offer to be one.

Got my first piece of track this morning and assembled a length. I used an Easitrac jig to hold the sleeper base in position - the sleepers don't fit properly, but its possible to get them to lie down on one side. I reckon a similar jig for this track would be very useful (and is probably on your "todo" list).

As for the track, it looks great. I plan to try ballasting it in the Norman Soloman method; I just hope the sleepers are not too thick, otherwise I'll continue to use Easitrac.

I'm looking forward to trying some points. I don't like the idea of following Peco's geometry, but note that you might offer to follow designs drawn in Templot. One thing I will need is a crossover, and to get the 6' way I cannot use Peco points without doctoring them. I'll try some of your points first, and if that gives me the 6' way I go with them - otherwise I'll be sending a Templot design for a crossover.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on March 16, 2013, 05:19:45 PM
I've been out of circulation for a few days and clearly missed quite a bit!!!
Desperately looking forward to seeing the points - started tracklaying last week and can't go far without points.
I see I'm too late to beta, but ready to place an order ....
Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on March 21, 2013, 06:40:58 PM
I plan to try ballasting it in the Norman Soloman method; I just hope the sleepers are not too thick, otherwise I'll continue to use Easitrac.
The ballasting experiments went very well. A friend who is a P4 modeller could not tell the difference between Easitrac and fiNescale, until I told him what to look for.

I used some self-adhesive cork/neoprene strip from Model Railway Solutions as the base. This is not ideal as its not chamfered at the edges and is only 20mm wide - it would be better if it were 26mm wide. However it is a good thickness at about 1mm. Does anyone have any other solutions for a base material?

I made up a 60' panel of both Easitrac and fiNescale and sprayed them both a light grey colour with my new airbrush. The colour is not ideal, but it was the nearest acrylic I had to hand. I used Febond PVA on the neoprene base, added the track then sprinkled the ballast (Woodland Scenics fine light grey). Because both the ballast and track colour are grey it is hard to spot the webs which I left attached to the sleepers (the webs are above the glue, but underneath the rail, hence are hard to spot despite having no ballast on them).

I will have these samples at the Alexandra Palace Model Railway show this weekend - come and find me on the MERG stand (152 & 153).

Regarding the thickness of the sleepers, Easitrac is about 0.5mm and Wayne has chosen 1mm for fiNescale. It is hard to spot the difference on my ballasted experiments. However I had previously made up some Easitrac 60' panels as wagon loads, and the sleepers look too thin. The 1mm is much better as it is a closer approximation to the sleeper depth of 5". Who know, maybe some 2mm modellers will buy fiNescale if they want to make up wagon loads!

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on March 21, 2013, 07:07:55 PM
Here is a top view of both Easitrac and fiNescale ballasted as in my previous post
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/thumb_4201.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4201)
and here is a close up of Easitrac
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/thumb_4199.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4199)
and a close up of fiNescale
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/thumb_4200.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4200)

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Southernboy on March 22, 2013, 09:13:50 PM
Thanks for taking the trouble to model and photograph the two track systems for comparison, both look equally convincing, although (perhaps because you mentioned it) my eye was drawn to the webbing and I really noticed it on the two examples.

But either way I continue to be excited by the continued development of fiNetrax and look forward to testing it out at some point in the future :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 23, 2013, 08:57:36 AM
Nice comparison, thanks :)

I have gone a touch extravagant this week and decided to purchase a Solidscape 3D Wax Printer. A bit steep @ £17,500 + VAT (I got a deal on a 2 month old model from solid-scape.co.uk) but I will be starting a 3D Wax Printing service to print customers CAD models in wax (I have just registered www.youcast.co.uk (http://www.youcast.co.uk)).

The machine can also be used to help prototype parts for my camera accessories business and not least print waxes for the cast frog of fiNetrax turnouts! The scope for high quality castings of other line side accessories and general model castings is huge!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on March 23, 2013, 05:37:07 PM
A bit steep @ £17,500 + VAT

 :jawdropping:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Leo1961 on March 23, 2013, 05:52:12 PM
Isn't this a case of "You have to speculate to accumulate" ?

Good luck with your venture  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on March 23, 2013, 08:19:53 PM

Hello Wayne,

What is the wax that your new machine moulds in?  Is it suitable for finished models, or just for making components that can then be lost-wax cast in metal?

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 23, 2013, 09:24:26 PM
This wax is very brittle, but highly detailed. I would consider using the waxes 'as is' in my own models when strength is not needed.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: AndyGif on March 23, 2013, 09:48:33 PM
You'll be buying a mold oven and a crucible furnace next wayne. 

17k thats like a whole big layout and rolling stock.....

Can you reuse the wax from items you print and dont like for  some reason?  i can just see you with a cheese grater and badly printed model.

i'll know where to come for model prototypes and jewellery prototypes, just transitioning over to autodesk inventor pro.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 26, 2013, 08:41:45 AM
I hope not :D

I should get the wax 3D printer up and running on Saturday. I'll print off 10x 1in6 frogs and send them to be cast. This should take about a week. In the meantime I'll get the other bits together for 10x kits to send to the 'BETA' testers :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on April 04, 2013, 04:30:11 PM
Hi Guys,

I got the Solidscape 3D Wax printer on Saturday, been running some test prints :) The machines accuracy and detail is out of this world, perfect for making wax patterns of frogs/crossings.

I have printed off 10x 1in6 frogs, I will get these sent to the caster, tomorrow! The 10 beta kits should be out soon (ish) :)

We are getting there!

Thanks,
Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Phil Hendry on April 04, 2013, 04:34:19 PM
Sounds great - thanks for letting us know how things are going!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on April 16, 2013, 12:00:31 PM
Hi Guys,

Yay! Got back my first castings that were printed on my machine! Only got 7 frogs back not 10 (not sure why yet, maybe the caster damaged the waxes) so I can only do 7 'BETA' kits guys, sorry.

The cast frogs are fantastic! Even have a cast K crossing for a diamond crossing. I will need to make some adjustments for the next batch due to the shrinkage as the casting cools, but we are all go for the beta kits.

Off to Alton Towers for 2 nights as of tomorrow (YAY!!!), so will get back to this at the weekend!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on April 30, 2013, 06:01:48 PM
Hi Guys,

Please forgive the delay, I am working on the switch blades right now, trying to find the right method and manufacturing process.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karyn on May 01, 2013, 12:14:28 AM
Are switch blades legal in Britain?    :uneasy:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on May 03, 2013, 04:28:53 PM
Hi Guys,

OK, I believe I can use my Solidscape wax printer to print wax patterns of switch blades. I just printed one off and the detail is fine and I believe its castable!

Its only the planned length of the switch, which then joins to normal rail for the remaining length.

I am also going to attempt printing chairs to cast in brass, with a tag that runs off for electrical connection. This means that you would not need to solder directly to the bottom of the rail. Not sure if I can get the required fit of chair to rail for a reliable electrical connection though.

I'll get some stuff cast next week, man this is taking a long time!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: NTrain on May 03, 2013, 04:43:57 PM
........................................man this is taking a long time!

I know what you mean.

Any development takes time and has it's ups and downs, and that is without life getting in the way  :-[

You will get there  :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on May 09, 2013, 08:54:56 AM
Thanks Bob, I hope I will be there soon! :)

I have printed 2 sets of switch blades, sending them off to be cast. Man, I hope this works :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on May 14, 2013, 12:56:20 PM
OK Guys,

Not great news on this post, I'm afraid. The cast point blades are a no go, way too fragile to be cast :(

Unfortunately, the kits will not be provided with pre file point blades. I will however supply a filing jig which makes it very easy to file the taper on the blade, much easier than I thought actually.

The blades will then need soldering to the supplied copper clad tie bar in situ. Sorry about this guys, I have struggled to find a good solution to provide this pre assembled.

Currently working on instructions, with a nice colour coded diagram showing which chairs go where :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on May 14, 2013, 05:21:01 PM
In all honesty, filing blades really isn't all that difficult. With a large file (a couple of quid from Wilkinsons) and a small hobby vice, I've managed to file up more than 10 of them for my layout. It takes a couple of minutes to cut the rail, file the taper and clean it up a little with a diamond needle file. With a jig I imagine the process would take 30 seconds.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karyn on May 14, 2013, 05:54:46 PM
You have to leave us some work to do Wayne else you're having all the fun making up the kits...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: NTrain on May 14, 2013, 06:15:32 PM
One of the American manufacturers supplies a steel jig, at extra cost, and you thread the rail into the jig and file at the right angle thanks to the jig. I saw a video of the construction, and it was a matter of moments to file correctly.

I forget the manufacturer, so cannot provide a link to them or the video.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on May 16, 2013, 01:45:12 AM
Wayne

Have you asked the likes of C&L (or similar) how they manufacture their pre-made point blades?

I hadn't twigged that you were trying to cast the blades, I thought you were casting the frogs (which should work). 

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: PaulCheffus on May 16, 2013, 11:10:30 AM
Wayne

Have you asked the likes of C&L (or similar) how they manufacture their pre-made point blades?

I hadn't twigged that you were trying to cast the blades, I thought you were casting the frogs (which should work). 

Cheers, Mike


Hi

I'm guessing they are milling them.

The American firm mentioned above might be this one www.handlaidtrack.com (http://www.handlaidtrack.com)

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: NTrain on May 16, 2013, 03:00:41 PM
Just looked at their video and it looks very familiar.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on May 17, 2013, 08:43:51 AM
Thanks Guys,

I will try and get everything together  today and the weekend to send out Beta kits on Monday/Tuesday. The instructions might not be 100% complete but I will try and at least get the diagrams done.

Just spent 2 days making a vaccum dust collector attachment for the CNC machine, it works well. No more bits of plastic debris everywhere!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on May 28, 2013, 01:42:11 PM
Wayne

Will you be showing your track at this weekend's N Gauge Society's AGM/exhibition?

Does the NGS Trade Liasion Officer have a sample for review in the Journal?

Thanks
Michael
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on May 28, 2013, 10:45:39 PM
Advert and photos taken from this thread shown to N gaugers at Warley Club tonight - widely accepted as a way forward, look forward to points being advertised - is track readily available so I can buy a metre as a show and tell to club?
Thanks for all your efforts
Robert     
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on May 29, 2013, 08:54:05 AM
Thanks Guys,

I am holding off until the turnout kits are complete, then I will mail samples to the magazines. Plain line track can be purchased here:
http://www.britishfinescale.com/ (http://www.britishfinescale.com/)

Today I am mailing turnout kits to the 6 BETA testers :)

I have setup a forum here for anyone interested in following their progress, or have any questions regarding fiNetrax in general:
http://finetrax.proboards.com/ (http://finetrax.proboards.com/)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Phil Hendry on May 29, 2013, 10:24:23 AM
Today I am mailing turnout kits to the 6 BETA testers :)
:claphappy: :bounce: YAY!!!!!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on May 29, 2013, 11:44:24 AM
Whooo... now to figure out how to design a 1 point micro layout 8)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: AndyGif on May 29, 2013, 12:04:28 PM
Whooo... now to figure out how to design a 1 point micro layout 8)

easy that one,  dont even have to assemble the point just need a few figures and  a crane, with all the bits strewn about, track engineers yard....
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on May 29, 2013, 05:34:18 PM
Yeah.. but I'm kind of hoping it doesn't end up looking like that ;-)

Trawsfynydd perhaps ?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on May 29, 2013, 09:00:21 PM
Also, I imagine that a model of a part assembled point isn't what Wayne has in mind for the test kits! :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 01, 2013, 10:26:15 AM
Hi Guys,

Well all 6 BETA testers now have their kit (minus the switch blades, hoping to have these cast).

Some have made a start on the build, and they will soon be posting photos. You can see their progress here:

http://finetrax.proboards.com/ (http://finetrax.proboards.com/)

I have made a start on the Assembly Diagram for the instructions, I would like your input guys, is it clear, am I missing things? Extra notes will be provided about cutting rail, filing and check rails etc...

(http://www.shoot35.com/1in6%20base_diagram.jpg)

Larger version here:
http://www.shoot35.com/1in6%20base_diagram.jpg (http://www.shoot35.com/1in6%20base_diagram.jpg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on June 01, 2013, 11:22:50 AM
Looks good! The only thing I notice is that the "Inside Rail" "Outside Rail" labels get confusing. How about if you shortened it to just "Inside" & "Outside" and provided a close-up of the crossing V area with the labels on, instead?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 01, 2013, 08:05:15 PM
Thanks for the input!

I'll take a look at this and also provide an expanded view of the V.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: AndyGif on June 01, 2013, 08:49:20 PM
Hate for it to get any more psychedelic,  but another solution to the inner outer rail confusion would be to colour code them like you have with the chair types.

Looking good Wayne it is making me want to try some in the near future.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on June 01, 2013, 09:57:09 PM
Hello
I had a look at the beta point kit that Grahame Hedges had at the AGM today and was surprised at the flangeway gap. It looks considerably wider than the gap on the N Gauge Easitrac point Grahame had.

Could fiNetrax use cut and soldered frogs as an alternative to the casting?

I'm looking forward to production point being available.
Michael
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 02, 2013, 07:26:01 AM
Hi Michael,

The frog has 0.85mm flangeway with 1mm checkrail.

These were the numbers I came to, to allow RTR stock to run through unmodified, unless they are badly out of course :)

I am sure that the N Gauge easitrac point uses something like 0.75 - 0.77mm NMRA gap. Unfortunately RTR would not run through this without the back to backs being opened out on each wheelset.

This was discussed early on in the project and the general feeling was that most wanted RTR to run through unmodified.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on June 02, 2013, 10:17:18 AM

.......  the general feeling was that most wanted RTR to run through unmodified.


Hmm, I'm not so sure about that. I think what has happened is that the flangeway size has been 'agreed' because a few people 'shouted' loudest and it's not necessarily the best option. I'd suggest that;

1) Anyone who is going to bother to build a point kit is not going to have a problem with adjusting the back to back on wheelsets (assuming they need it).
2) Plus, of course, with narrower flangeway there will be less chance of the wheels dropping causing lurching and bumping through.
3) Stock will run smoother and the trackwork will look finer and more realistic with smaller flangeways, making it more attractive to a larger number of potential customers.
4) And it would be far better to use a recognised standard (such as NMRA) rather than trying to make one up as part of a consensus.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on June 02, 2013, 10:36:00 AM

.......  the general feeling was that most wanted RTR to run through unmodified.


it would be far better to use a recognised standard (such as NMRA) rather than trying to make one up as part of a consensus.
I agree.

re sleeper thickness - I prefer the thicker sleepers. You are going to have to pack fiNetrax anyway where it meets Peco code 55 (in a fiddle yard or already laid track). I do not see packing to meet Easitrac is any more of a problem.

The thicker sleepers are nearer to scale anyway. They look better on a wagon load of 60' panels (I've made some with Easitrac and they look wrong). I think the robust nature of the thicker sleepers will also suit the majority of N gauge modellers.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Roy L S on June 02, 2013, 12:55:57 PM
This is a new avenue (Code 40 RTR track for British N) and as such surely there are therefore in some respects no specific "standards" hence the need to canvass opinion. I am not sure a "few people shouted loudest" persuaded the decision, Wayne sought the views of people on here and that was the consensus. I think personally it was based on sound commercial judgement and common sense.

 Looking at the pics of the "Beta" point kits going together, they look well designed and within the capabilities of the average determined modeller to achieve. I am looking forward to building a few myself when available.

I do agree that the flangeways should be designed with today's finer wheel standards in mind, however there has to be a bit of tolerance built into the design and I personally do not think that going something finer still which would/could then require adjusting BTBs as a matter of routine to suit is either desirable or the best way forward. It may suit some, but in my opinion would deter many more.

I though the whole idea was to provide finer Code 40 track standards but in a cleverly designed way that would acommodate today's finer wheeled RTR products "out of the box". From what I have seen to date and based on my own experience of assembling and trying several panels of plain track that is exactly what Wayne is delivering.

If persuaded to move beyond this towards finer flangeways etc which might then routinely require modification of RTR stock (i.e. BTBs and incidentally some may not be at all easy to adjust - consider N steam locos) to go through I personally think it this is missing the point (sorry!) of the product completely and risks turning away many who would otherwise use it.

In the end the though while we may all have our own opinions of what we see as "best" it is Wayne taking the risk here and ultimately his decision as to what he views as the best route commercially..

Just my view...

Roy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 02, 2013, 01:08:58 PM
1) Anyone who is going to bother to build a point kit is not going to have a problem with adjusting the back to back on wheelsets (assuming they need it).

I'd disagree. On a few models like the Dapol 14xx it's a good way to destroy the model because of the way the wheels are fitted. The back to back is also just part of the whole equation - you need to combine the frog and check rail with the spacing and wheel profile.

The 1mm check rail spacing seems a bit wide - I'd be worried about NMRA wheels striking the frog nose but given its milled holes that is presumably tweakable.

Also its like DCC. If you have 3 locos its not a big deal (but you'd probably go 2fs). If you've got forty locos some of which are 'collectable' then its a big deal to regauge them all.

Quote
4) And it would be far better to use a recognised standard (such as NMRA) rather than trying to make one up as part of a consensus.

NMRA and NEM are actually incompatible. If you look at UK models they are not quite NMRA gauged and not quite NEM wheeled. From the maths I think that is so they'll run on European and Peco track reliably and still look good (or as good as a scale foot thick wheel tyre can!)

If you want fine standards the first thing you have to fix is the gauge. Worrying about a 0.8mm frog gap when your track is a bit over 0.6mm too narrow seems odd to me. There is already a fine standard for finer trackwork - its 2fs and takes you far closer to gauge even in N.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: moogle on June 02, 2013, 01:51:34 PM
Roy L S and Etchedpixels echo what I'd say exactly.
What Wayne is doing will provide a track system that is so much different to anything on the U.K market for N gauge whilst allowing out of the box stuff to run.
He's invested a lot of time and money in this and whilst making it more to scale is one thing he has to draw the line somewhere to make it a commercial success.
And don't forget, 2fs and N are two different scales!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on June 02, 2013, 02:06:19 PM
1) Anyone who is going to bother to build a point kit is not going to have a problem with adjusting the back to back on wheelsets (assuming they need it).
As someone who's just hand built turnouts with 0.7mm (nominal) flangeways I can tell you that checking and adjusting the B2B's on all my stock so far has been tedious and in some cases, irritating. Graham Farish pinpoint axles in particular are a beast to get in and out of some models, such as the Presflo. If I'd realised just how awkward and difficult it would be to set the B2Bs on everything I might have perhaps gone with a slighter larger gap. Going with a 0.8/0.85mm flangeway seems like a sensible commercial decision for Wayne; he's taking a big enough risk as it is, without needing to make things more complicated for himself.

However with the process Wayne is using to create the frogs, perhaps it would be possible for him to produce some with a 0.7mm clearance as an option?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on June 02, 2013, 02:13:58 PM

re sleeper thickness - I prefer the thicker sleepers. You are going to have to pack fiNetrax anyway where it meets Peco code 55 (in a fiddle yard or already laid track). I do not see packing to meet Easitrac is any more of a problem.

The thicker sleepers are nearer to scale anyway. They look better on a wagon load of 60' panels (I've made some with Easitrac and they look wrong). I think the robust nature of the thicker sleepers will also suit the majority of N gauge modellers.


The thickness of the Easitrack sleepers is sufficiently robust - I'm not sure why N gauge modellers, who are going to be effectively making/building their own track need it any more stronger.

Packing Easitrack/fiNetraX to join Peco track would only occur in fiddle yards (assuming you want to use Peco) but to have to pack at every point in the scenic area where you are also gong to have to ballast is a different matter and will be a PITA as well as potentially affecting smooth running.

The point about using them for wagon loads is a bit of a red herring - the Easitrack ones are more than acceptable as 'too scale' by 2mm finescale modellers so why not to N gauge modellers? Besides for the odd wagon load it's a bit overkill - laying for running is more of an issue and will be the significant use.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on June 02, 2013, 03:16:52 PM

The thickness of the Easitrack sleepers is sufficiently robust - I'm not sure why N gauge modellers, who are going to be effectively making/building their own track need it any more stronger.
H.

I am one of those taking part in the Beta testing of the point kits.
I would describe myself as an average modeller,someone who has never attempted to build points before,and this is why i decided to take part,to give an average modellers point of view.
You keep comparing FiNetrax with Easitrack,H.
This is not Easitrack,it's FiNetrax,designed with N Gauge modellers in mind who might like to explore finer looking track without going the whole hog and moving to 2mmFS.
For those that are not happy with the base thickness,flangeway gap,then maybe 2mmFS is the way to go for you.
With regard to the thickness of the base,i am finding as an "average" modeller that the thickness actually gives me a little reassurance that i am not working with something that is too flimsy.
In my opinion that far outweighs  the fractions of a mm difference  in how it looks.

Ste....... :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on June 02, 2013, 03:44:21 PM

You keep comparing FiNetrax with Easitrack,H.
This is not Easitrack,it's FiNetrax,designed with N Gauge modellers in mind who might like to explore finer looking track without going the whole hog and moving to 2mmFS.


No I don't 'keep comparing' - but fiNetraX is basically Easitrack with some tweaking to 1:148 scale and 9mm gauge. I'm fully aware that it for N gauge modellers without the need to re-wheel to 2mmFS standards but it's sensible to learn from them - after all they have successfully developed Easitrack to something that works and is in use on layotus. For example it's sensible for the sleeper thickness of the points to match the sleeper thickness of the plain track.

AFAIC it's not about 'exploring' (the option) of finer looking track but to develop it commercially and successfully. The need for finer looking track is a given, but there is little point in reverse engineering to accommodate outdated standards that are no longer in general use.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 02, 2013, 04:41:38 PM
there is little point in reverse engineering to accommodate outdated standards that are no longer in general use.

NEM wheel and track standards are (alas) alive and well. Most UK stock today does not meet the US NMRA standard out of the box. So the "no longer in general use" doesn't really apply.

The flanges may be shallower and the profile changed a little but they are basically NEM like back to back and wheel thickness out of the box at around 7.45mm or so.

The reality is that today if you buy RTR British stock today and dump it on a layout with strict NMRA pointwork it won't work reliably.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on June 02, 2013, 04:52:45 PM

NEM wheel and track standards are (alas) alive and well. Most UK stock today does not meet the US NMRA standard out of the box. So the "no longer in general use" doesn't really apply.

The reality is that today if you buy RTR British stock today and dump it on a layout with strict NMRA pointwork it won't work reliably.


I was thinking more about older wheels and standards rather than the current finer profile wheels that do work on N gauge points built with finer flangeways.

H.



Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on June 02, 2013, 06:07:18 PM



 For example it's sensible for the sleeper thickness of the points to match the sleeper thickness of the plain track.
H.


Here is plain FiNetrax attached to the point base.
To me the difference is negligible,and certainly acceptable.


(http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g333/dockshunter/SANY0307.jpg) (http://s1096.photobucket.com/user/dockshunter/media/SANY0307.jpg.html)

(http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g333/dockshunter/SANY0303.jpg) (http://s1096.photobucket.com/user/dockshunter/media/SANY0303.jpg.html)

Ste..... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 02, 2013, 08:45:16 PM

.......  the general feeling was that most wanted RTR to run through unmodified.


Hmm, I'm not so sure about that. I think what has happened is that the flangeway size has been 'agreed' because a few people 'shouted' loudest and it's not necessarily the best option. I'd suggest that;

Please check the third voting poll on this thread, started over a year ago (and still running). I didn't go into these numbers willy nilly :)

Top votes were for RTR stock to run through unmodified with 1mm flangeway, the 2nd finer option being 0.8 - 0.85mm flangeway.

Considering I have managed to do 0.85mm flangeway and also allow nearly all RTR stock to run through, I pretty much think I've ticked both boxes. I can't do much more than that, sorry....heheh :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Izzy on June 02, 2013, 08:53:33 PM
If the sleepers are thicker than those of Easitrac then it might not be such a bad thing. The big problem I have encountered with Easitrac is that the depth of the sleeper ties isn't that much less than the sleepers, and ballasting to cover the ties while leaving a gap under the rail is near impossible. One of the features of bullhead track looks-wise is that the chairs/rail stand proud of the sleepers and ballast. I have resorted to laying the track and then cutting through and removing the ties afterwards before ballasting to get over this problem. I don't know about the Easitrac point bases with regard to this as I have never used them.

Izzy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karyn on June 03, 2013, 12:45:23 AM
Part 1 of point build posted here...  http://finetrax.proboards.com/post/66/thread (http://finetrax.proboards.com/post/66/thread)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 03, 2013, 09:56:02 AM
Hmmm, would the instructions cause an issue with those with colour blindness? :S
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on June 03, 2013, 09:59:59 AM
Hmmm, would the instructions cause an issue with those with colour blindness? :S

I'm colour blind with red and green but I could make out the differences OK mate. :thumbsup:  Of course, others may be worse than me with other colours.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dock Shunter on June 03, 2013, 10:02:38 AM
Hmmm, would the instructions cause an issue with those with colour blindness? :S

I'm colour blind with red and green.

You don't drive do you Chris...?      :worried:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on June 03, 2013, 10:15:01 AM
I don't, but you can legally drive.  :)  I have a motorbike though.  ;D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: AndyGif on June 03, 2013, 10:22:59 AM
I don't, but you can legally drive.  :)  I have a motorbike though.  ;D
does riding a push bike make you red/green colour blind when it comes to traffic lights i wonder.....
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 03, 2013, 10:43:13 AM
Looks good - with Easitrac one of the tips was to thread the chairs onto the rail in order, then cut them from the sprue and the finally fit the lot to the base. That way the tiny bits of plastic don't go walkies. It also means you get to practice your vocabulary when you miscount  :veryangry:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karyn on June 03, 2013, 12:50:36 PM
Good idea,  it would also solve the wiring problem/dilema as long as you carefully marked where you want to connect to on each rail.

I'll try it out tonight on a short section to see how easily the chairs fit to the base.  From new they are very good snug fit,  easy to fit but tight enough to stay in place.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: troutflier on June 04, 2013, 04:05:21 PM
Im very new to n gauge modeling but an old hand at tool making, both press and plastics. My most sincere admiration for your project and my interest is yours  for the future. Good luck .......paul
 :claphappy:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on June 04, 2013, 04:58:17 PM
Sorry, but to me asking people to vote on things like flangeways may be misguided.  Most people (me included and I know a bit about it) won't know the details on what will *actually* work...

IME it isn't as simple as saying larger flangeways are better as too much slop actually creates other problems.

There is no getting away from the fact that until the manufacturers are more consistent with their wheelsets that you sometimes need to check B2Bs as what you are after is the consistency (hopefully to one of the relevant standards for your track and wheel combinations).

For me it would be nice if the point sleepers could be tweaked a bit to match more closely the plain track moulding, but it may not be possible for Wayne.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 04, 2013, 08:50:50 PM
For me it would be nice if the point sleepers could be tweaked a bit to match more closely the plain track moulding, but it may not be possible for Wayne.

Bear in mind they shouldn't match entirely. Traditionally sleepers were 10" but crossing bearers are 12". Thickness ought to be about 0.9mm (5").

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on June 05, 2013, 08:29:18 AM
For me it would be nice if the point sleepers could be tweaked a bit to match more closely the plain track moulding, but it may not be possible for Wayne.

Bear in mind they shouldn't match entirely. Traditionally sleepers were 10" but crossing bearers are 12". Thickness ought to be about 0.9mm (5").

They (fiNetraX plain track and point sleepers) should be both to 1:148 scale (length, width and spacing) but the same thickness so that the rail head remains as flat and smooth as possible (without having to pack underneath) which is an advantage in this scale and will aid better running.

H.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thebrighton on June 05, 2013, 09:04:37 AM

[/quote]

They (fiNetraX plain track and point sleepers) should be both to 1:148 scale (length, width and spacing) but the same thickness so that the rail head remains as flat and smooth as possible (without having to pack underneath) which is an advantage in this scale and will aid better running.

H.
[/quote]

Greetings,
I have to agree. This is my only disappointment with fiNetraX. I want realistic looking track and will be buying and building it but smooth running is essential so it strikes me as odd that the first thing I have to do when laying the track is bodge it to get the rail heights the same between points and plain track. It isn't as simple as a sliver of plasticard at the end of the plain track to raise it as IMHO this will just cause undulations. You will need to raise the whole length of plain rail as even slight rises and falls can effect the contact between rail and wheel.
There are already enough differing standards in 'N' and this is another example where a difference has occurred as, maybe incorrectly, I feel a good design has been compromised by too many people on forums wanting different things which has influenced the product to its detriment.
I'll still be buying though but it looks like I'll also be buying plenty of plasticard packing.
Gareth
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 05, 2013, 09:16:17 AM
Hi Guys,

Just to be clear, both fiNetrax plain line and fiNetrax points are the same height (1mm thick sleepers/timbers, the rail sits 1.3mm high on the 0.3mm chairs). NO packing is required connecting fiNetrax to fiNetrax:

(http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g333/dockshunter/SANY0307.jpg) (http://s1096.photobucket.com/user/dockshunter/media/SANY0307.jpg.html)

(http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g333/dockshunter/SANY0303.jpg) (http://s1096.photobucket.com/user/dockshunter/media/SANY0303.jpg.html)

Others are talking about connecting fiNetrax to 2mm Easitrac, this is where there is a 0.25mm height difference).
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thebrighton on June 05, 2013, 09:18:43 AM
Hi Wayne,
Good news. That's the trouble with multiple posts on forum. Facts tend to blur and a misunderstood quote can suddenly become gospel. Looking back through the thread I still can't see where Easitrac height turned into fiNetraX height.
Gareth
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: H on June 05, 2013, 09:26:12 AM
That's great if the plain and point sleepers are the same thickness - I did ask what the thickness was of the plain track but no-one gave an answer - although in that pic the plain track sleeper does look thinner with the rail sloping down right to left (but that may just be a poor pic or an illusion caused by the (correctly) wider point sleeper).

H.
 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 05, 2013, 09:29:27 AM
although in that pic the plain track sleeper does look thinner with the rail sloping down right to left (but that may just be a poor pic or an illusion caused by the (correctly) wider point sleeper).

H.

I believe this is because a) the chairs probably are not pushed all the way into the holes yet, as Ste is not on the stage of glueing the chairs down, and b) the turnout base is ever so slightly lifting off the work top - once all it fixed and glued to the baseboard, you will get perfect alignment (i have tooled up for this :) ).
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karyn on June 05, 2013, 06:13:17 PM
I can confirm the plain track and points line up perfectly, though I don't have a pic to show this (yet)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on June 05, 2013, 10:24:18 PM
Hi Wayne, I'm not sure if I was meant to be one of your beta testers or not.   If yes, I thought I'd better let you know that I've not had anything in the post.  If not, no worries - I look forward to giving you some money in the near future!

Also, can you confirm what frog angles you will be offering (I'm going to mill my own bases but before I go templotting I just want to check on the bits I can't make myself)?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 06, 2013, 09:54:21 AM
Hi,

Only had enough frogs for 6 kits in the end, sorry.

I will offer you a free kit once they are released though :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on June 06, 2013, 01:24:33 PM
That's kind of you but you don't need to do that!  I'm just pleased that the project is going so well for you.  Have you made a choice on what frog angles you will be offering?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 06, 2013, 03:08:55 PM
Sorry, 1 in 6 first, then 1 in 7 and 1 in 5.

I also need to make a post on here about geometry/formations. For example, the BETA testers have their 1in6 kits, but if 2 of these where put together to form a crossover, it would place the 2 parallel track centres too far away. I need to work out what to do here...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 06, 2013, 04:04:26 PM
Sorry, 1 in 6 first, then 1 in 7 and 1 in 5.

I also need to make a post on here about geometry/formations. For example, the BETA testers have their 1in6 kits, but if 2 of these where put together to form a crossover, it would place the 2 parallel track centres too far away. I need to work out what to do here...

A proper crossover usually has some shared bearers across the base so it perhaps the right approach is a milled crossover base at a couple of useful spacings but otherwise using the same parts (frogs, blades etc) as the pointwork ?

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 06, 2013, 04:35:35 PM
Thanks Alan,

Yeah, I was thinking the same, a 'crossover' kit, probably slightly cheaper than 2 tournout kits.

I need to see if the same happens with the diamond crossing, as I can make a separate kit for every formation... :S

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karyn on June 06, 2013, 07:48:45 PM
Wayne, considering the ease with which you can print out parts is there any chance of offering custom configurations?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on June 06, 2013, 11:13:17 PM
...if 2 [kits] were put together to form a crossover, it would place the 2 parallel track centres too far away. I need to work out what to do here...

The spacing between track on the full size railway was defined in the Ministry of Transport Requirements 1950. For a double track main line, the spacing between the inner edges of the two lines is a minimum of 6 feet – the so called “6 foot way”Ě. In practise this appears to be closer to 6 feet 5 Ĺ inches. (Note that where sidings etc. are laid alongside the main line, the distance is increased to 10 feet. Also, in GWR territory the distance between the main lines is often larger due to the original use of broad gauge.)

In N gauge, with a scale of 1:148, the 6 feet 5 Ĺ inches translates to 13.3 mm. However the standard track geometry of Peco “finescale”Ě code 55 track gives a distance of 16 mm.

Another complication is that N gauge track is 9 mm between the running rails, but should be 9.7 mm if the scale of 1:148 were used. Therefore if rolling stock were modelled to exact scale, they would overhang the rails by 0.35 mm each side. To reduce the possibility of trains running too close together it makes sense to widen the 13.3mm by a further 0.7 mm making 14 mm. This also happens to be the recommended minimum distance quoted by the N gauge society. Reducing the gap from 16mm to 14mm may not sound much, but I think it shows a real improvement.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=5389)
Peco settrack goes down to 9”Ě radius and other makes are even tighter. So Peco probably widened the gap to allow stock to pass on 9”Ě curves. The wider gap also allows locos with wide valve gear (like the old Minitrix "9F") to pass each other.

In my case I had already decided on 18”Ě radius (about 460mm) as my minimum radius, so I did a test was to check if my stock could pass on a double curve with a 14mm track separation. They did.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=5391)
Note that Templot2 now allows you to position dummy rolling stock on track to check they do not touch.

In summary, for me a 14mm separation would be ideal, but others may want a wider gap.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 07, 2013, 12:22:40 PM
The 6foot is a good deal older than that. As a chosen spacing it goes back to at least the early 1830s where it's in the specifications for some of the very early railway building.

There are lots of places you can get away with wider spacing - ex broadgauge is but one of them. Many of the companies worked to wider spacings.

I did find it tricky to work to the narrow spacing, and ended up making myself some track positioning gauges to keep all the line spacing accurate.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on June 07, 2013, 01:38:34 PM
The 6foot is a good deal older than that.

True, but I thought the 1950s document would be easier to find

Quote
I did find it tricky to work to the narrow spacing, and ended up making myself some track positioning gauges to keep all the line spacing accurate.

I did the same. I made the gauges from some 10BA screws in aluminium.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=5405)

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 07, 2013, 02:10:02 PM
Its covered by "A Practical Treatise on Rail-roads, and Interior Communication in General" from 1838 amongst other things.

The early railways (Newcastle & Carlile, Liverpool and Manchester) used the gauge as the gap between the two tracks. The London and Birmingham (ie 'Grand Junction') moved to 6ft although at the time it is recorded that "experience has shewn that no great inconvenience is felt upon lines of the lesser width"

The 5ft edge is also documented by then but not as far as I know the idea of the 10ft. In fact I'm not sure if there were any four track lines at that point beyond crossings


http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d609AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA140&dq=grand+junction+railway+construction+six+foot&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xtixUYm3O8Kc0wW_kICgBQ&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=grand%20junction%20railway%20construction%20six%20foot&f=false (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d609AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA140&dq=grand+junction+railway+construction+six+foot&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xtixUYm3O8Kc0wW_kICgBQ&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=grand%20junction%20railway%20construction%20six%20foot&f=false)



Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Izzy on June 07, 2013, 02:39:40 PM

I do think that with regards to track distances, and considering the generally narrower gauge diemensions used with model track compared to the prototype, it is often better to use track centre distance rather than the common 6ft one usually referred to.

Track centres are 11'2" for straight plain track, increasing to 15'2" between sidings or pairs of main lines. The extra 4' allows for the placement of signals etc between the tracks. These figures are for straight lines. As lines curve then this increases relative to the severity of the radius to maintain clearance between passing stock.

With the relative tightness of model railway curves compared to the prototype then sticking to these sizes can often prove difficult, and setting them at a distance that gives clearance is needed, whether that replicates real life or not. When this is needed then setting the straight track further apart than the minimum is often better visually as the visual gap difference between straight and curved tracks doesn't look so large or stark. A lot depends on the track plan of the model of course, but trying to stick rigidly to prototype figures doesn't always work out for the best in my experience.

Izzy

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 07, 2013, 02:47:41 PM

I do think that with regards to track distances, and considering the generally narrower gauge diemensions used with model track compared to the prototype

Caution is needed there because most model rail is horribly fat on the surface so the outside edges of the track are often properly positioned.

Agreed entirely on the curved/straight thing - thats a very good point.

Alan
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on June 12, 2013, 10:59:49 AM
Hi Wayne,
What's the latest on the flangeway gap discussion?  As I understand it the frogs are made from 3d printed masters so it is straightforward to make these in almost any size, but what about the moulded chairs for check rails?  I assume that you had to settle on one gap with your tooling - could you remind me what it is (can't see it earlier in the thread)?
Best wishes,
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 12, 2013, 12:05:11 PM
Hi Robert,

No problem, 0.85mm the the frog/crossing, 1mm at the check rails.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on June 12, 2013, 01:03:32 PM
Great- thanks.  One more question - what switch blade lengths will you be making?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 12, 2013, 01:53:20 PM
Hi Robert,

Do you mean the plaining length/angle, or the rail length up to the frog/crossing?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on June 12, 2013, 03:03:07 PM
Both really, as I'm trying to design templates to use your parts.  Planing length is most important, because I can always add cut the switch rails shorter or a insert small bit of rail if I need to.
Thanks
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 12, 2013, 04:30:23 PM
OK,

I have just had cast switch blades arrive today. Unfortunately, they are not quite good enough...just too small and intricate to cast fully.

So I will be resorting to making filing and assembly jigs for users to make the switch blades.

The first jig will be a 'B' switch plaining length.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on June 21, 2013, 08:20:44 AM
Hi , I got my first yard of track in post ysterday - a well packed delivery in a large box with rail wrapped and poly bag of sleeper units . I cleaned off a little burr on rail end and using my 2mmfs (sorry!) jig loaded up sleeper units and threaded rail.  A 60` panel easily made.
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 30, 2013, 11:04:07 AM
Hi Guys,

Another little update.

I have finalised the method for the switch blades and tie bar assembly. I have already posted about using the switch blade filing jig to file the blade to the correct planning (please see http://finetrax.proboards.com/thread/15/using-switch-blade-filing-jig (http://finetrax.proboards.com/thread/15/using-switch-blade-filing-jig) ).

I have also ordered etched 'switch blade chair plates' in nickel silver. These plates have a half etched 'ridge' for the switch blade to sit up against and soldered to. I am going to modify the filing jig to also be an assembly jig, holding the blade and nickel chair in position to solder together.

The chair has a 0.5mm hole etched through, allowing a 0.4mm headed pin to be inserted through and also through the tie bar with pre drilled hole.

This creates a nice strong, pivoting tie bar.

Its been over 18 months since I started this thread, but I believe that I am finally there. I should get the etched chair plates next week. I have also received assembly jigs for the plain line, machined by Alan Smith of easitrack fame, he has made them for me, allowing for the narrower gauge compared to the 2mm version. I will also get Alan to machine the switch blade filing jigs.

I new website will soon be up and running, with sage pay card processing. I hope to be finally selling the turnout kits in July, starting with a B6!

Now all of the nitty gritty has been sorted, it should be easy for me to add to the range (requests please!). I will also work on diamond crossings, and single/double slips.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karyn on June 30, 2013, 12:06:47 PM
As you're asking for suggestions Wayne, I need a 3 way with 1 track straight ahead and 2 turnouts to the right....   :-*
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Southernboy on June 30, 2013, 12:56:45 PM
Its been over 18 months since I started this thread, but I believe that I am finally there.

I just wanted to say congratulations!

Like many others I have been following your work and developments with interest. This is not only a great product which for many years N gauge modellers have only been able to dream about - but one which brings greater credibility and authenticity to this scale.

I hope this proves to be a great success for you :)

You asked for requests:
My request is maybe out of your scope or something which realistically would not prove profitable enough - but I'll ask anyway...
Would there be a chance of proper N gauge tram track one day (it could also be used for docks/quays/depot areas perhaps)?

A manufacturer in the US makes it in HO
http://www.proto87.com/easy-street--track-system.html (http://www.proto87.com/easy-street--track-system.html)

Either way congratulations again on FiNetrax!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on July 02, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
Well done Wayne - great work.
For future...
Number 7s ...
My immediate need for layout under construction would have been for 16 assorted No. 7 points. Trouble is, I have almost completed the 10 on the first board using soldered PCBs.
I have already got a stock of your plain track and now ordered a pair of No. 6s to give them a go alongside my soldered ones and look at adjusting some of the geometry before I move onto Board No. 2 ...
Looking forward to the jigs etc too!
Regards
Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on July 02, 2013, 04:10:09 PM
Thanks Brian,

Please check your email regarding the order (sorry).

Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on July 14, 2013, 07:08:10 PM
Hi Guys,

I've just uploaded 3 videos showing show to use the Switch Blade filing and assembly jigs, and the tie bar:

In 3 parts:

Part 1 covers how to apply solder to the rail to strengthen it prior to filing it into a switch blade:

http://youtu.be/-TZhNsCvOKo (http://youtu.be/-TZhNsCvOKo)

Part 2 covers filing the switch blade:

http://youtu.be/u6O1NO5bTVo (http://youtu.be/u6O1NO5bTVo)

Part 3 covers soldering the chair plate using the assembly jig, and tiebar assembly:

http://youtu.be/1dgAyesVEyg (http://youtu.be/1dgAyesVEyg)

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on July 25, 2013, 05:58:36 PM
Hi Guys,

Just getting 30 kits together now, and doing the new website, hope to have this up first week of August :)

Since this thread is titled 'gauging interest', how many of you are thinking of purchasing a kit? On offer first will be left and right hand B6 kits @ £18e.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on July 25, 2013, 06:46:47 PM
Hi Guys,

Just getting 30 kits together now, and doing the new website, hope to have this up first week of August :)

Since this thread is titled 'gauging interest', how many of you are thinking of purchasing a kit? On offer first will be left and right hand B6 kits @ £18e.
My medium term requirement is 4, longer term 6. Maybe I'll limit it to 1 or 2 for the short term to allow everyone to have a go and to try it out.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on July 25, 2013, 07:54:15 PM
Hi Guys,

Just getting 30 kits together now, and doing the new website, hope to have this up first week of August :)


Since this thread is titled 'gauging interest', how many of you are thinking of purchasing a kit? On offer first will be left and right hand B6 kits @ £18e.

I'll be ordering a kit or two. Will the website have flexi track ( presumably sleepers and rail) available too? If so, at what price?
Cheers
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on July 25, 2013, 11:37:40 PM
Would be interested in one to begin testing with.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on July 25, 2013, 11:46:17 PM
Hopefully you're planing to box up a few of the kits & some plain track and ship them off to the magazines for review.

Now I'm wondering if I could build a micro layout as a justification for a turnout kit. I might need to buy a length or two of plain track anyway...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Fratton on July 26, 2013, 04:38:47 AM
I have a 6x2 frame with no plans but maybe 3-4 points in the long run, like others i will buy one to test, i admire your level of open development of your product, if you do submit it to the magazines i hope they mention this as well as what i am sure is a fantastic product along with your straight track,
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on July 26, 2013, 02:29:27 PM
Thanks Guys,

Flexi track will be available, including an assembly jig for it.

Where do I find the email address of the magazines to contact them?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: mereman on July 26, 2013, 02:39:06 PM
This looks like the one for Railway Modeller  Railway-modeller@btconnect.com

ModelRail editors email  ben.jones@bauermedia.co.uk
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on July 26, 2013, 02:53:20 PM
This looks like the one for Railway Modeller  Railway-modeller@btconnect.com

ModelRail editors email  ben.jones@bauermedia.co.uk
I cannot see Railway Modeller printing a review!

others are:
British Railway Modelling johng@warnersgroup.co.uk

Hornby Magazine (despite its title it is not just OO) hornby.magazine@wildcomms.com

Howard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: mereman on July 26, 2013, 02:55:48 PM
This looks like the one for Railway Modeller  Railway-modeller@btconnect.com

ModelRail editors email  ben.jones@bauermedia.co.uk
I cannot see Railway Modeller printing a review!

others are:
British Railway Modelling johng@warnersgroup.co.uk

Hornby Magazine (despite its title it is not just OO) hornby.magazine@wildcomms.com

Howard

Very true about Modeller just quoted it 'cause it was on my desk  :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on July 26, 2013, 06:22:31 PM
I'm not so sure about RM not reviewing fine scale track. They take adverts from fine scale track manufacturers and I'm sure they have reviewed the likes of c and l in the past. Certainly they include models that don't have peco track in their pages.
I don't think fine scale N gauge track kits are a direct competitor to peco track anyway.
Just my twopeneth.

Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on July 27, 2013, 09:35:01 AM
Thanks for the email address, I have sent an email to each.

What about the N Gauge Society?

Thanks,
Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on July 27, 2013, 10:17:37 AM
Wayne what about Scale 1:148?
NGS Journal details are inside front cover, you have missed the next one.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on July 29, 2013, 12:55:34 PM
Hi Richard,

Do you mean the scale or the magazine. Thanks for heads up re: NGS.

I have already had positive responses back from Ben Jones of Mail Rail, and Steve Flint of Railway Modeller. This is pretty exciting! :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on July 29, 2013, 01:23:54 PM
Wayne

N Gauge Society contact details are also at http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=contact-us (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=contact-us)

journal@ngaugesociety.com

No contact details there for the Trade Liaison Officer.

Michael
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on July 29, 2013, 02:57:49 PM
Hi Richard,

Do you mean the scale or the magazine. Thanks for heads up re: NGS.

I have already had positive responses back from Ben Jones of Mail Rail, and Steve Flint of Railway Modeller. This is pretty exciting! :)

You'll get positive responses from anyone who thinks they can sell you an advert

(Cynic)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on July 29, 2013, 03:18:04 PM
Hi Richard,

Do you mean the scale or the magazine. Thanks for heads up re: NGS.

I have already had positive responses back from Ben Jones of Mail Rail, and Steve Flint of Railway Modeller. This is pretty exciting! :)

The Scale 148 Association/Group/Society that I believe you have had contact with Mark. PM Sent
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on July 30, 2013, 03:10:22 PM
Best of luck Wayne, I hope the orders come streaming in!  Will you make a post on here when the shop is open, or should we check your website directly?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on July 30, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
Thanks, I'll post on here once its open :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mr Sprue on July 30, 2013, 04:06:59 PM
Hi Wayne there are two questions I just have to ask you. They are: Which CNC milling machine did you you buy and secondly did you mill those mould blocks with it?

Regards
David
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on July 30, 2013, 07:06:00 PM
Hi David,

Its a chinese CNC 3040 from Ebay. Its pretty accurate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=374ITh7n0LE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=374ITh7n0LE)

Nah, the mould tools were made by a professional toolmaker (I've paid £6000 on the turnout chair tool and the plain line bases tool).
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mr Sprue on July 30, 2013, 10:50:51 PM
Hi David,

Its a chinese CNC 3040 from Ebay. Its pretty accurate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=374ITh7n0LE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=374ITh7n0LE)

Nah, the mould tools were made by a professional toolmaker (I've paid £6000 on the turnout chair tool and the plain line bases tool).

I thought that might be the case, even though I just had to ask as you never know with the advancing technology of today.  Mind you it would have been a fantastic break through had your CNC mill carried out that kind of cutting!

Currently I am building an LPG furnace to smelt alloy so I can cast mould blocks for my own plastic injection projects, of course the life span of alloy moulds are no where near as long as steel, but then I can just cast new ones as I need them.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 02, 2013, 09:22:27 AM
I did read about someone using Shapeway's 3d printed stainless steel as short run injection mould tool inserts, which I thought was a neat idea.  I'll see if I can find the link.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 02, 2013, 07:22:30 PM
Hi Guys,

I just built up one of the production B6 kits and taken some photos, you can see the cast frog in place:

(http://shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5686.jpg)

(http://shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC_5697.jpg)

A Close Up:
(http://shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC00189.jpg)

And with the inside of the frog blackened which looks much better:
(http://shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC00189a.jpg)

Comparing this to peco code 55, it is surprising how much wider and closer to scale gauge the track gauge actually looks, even though they are both 9mm.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Newportnobby on August 02, 2013, 08:31:11 PM
Looks superb, Wayne. Excellent job :claphappy:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Fratton on August 03, 2013, 01:17:31 PM
having followed your work on this thread i thought it would become harder to be impressed, but that's not whats happened, those pictures are stunning and if they are not worthy of a few inches of space in the big magazines i don't know what is,

amazing work!  :admiration: :admiration: :admiration:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mr Sprue on August 03, 2013, 09:17:05 PM
having followed your work on this thread i thought it would become harder to be impressed, but that's not whats happened, those pictures are stunning and if they are not worthy of a few inches of space in the big magazines i don't know what is,

amazing work!  :admiration: :admiration: :admiration:

Ditto! What else is there to say? Only that Kinney Finetrax looks well on course to be the start of a budding market leader for the purist. :admiration: :admiration:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on August 07, 2013, 04:02:58 PM
Oh no! I've had to lift a section of track and now don't have enough left to re-lay it!

Wayne, any update on the new website? I'm desperate to give you my money ;D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 07, 2013, 05:25:55 PM
Haha!

I am hoping to get it live by the end of the week. I have jigs and turnout kits boxed up (30 of) but still finishing the instructions. Also waiting for other stock to arrive (solder, flux, files, glue..).

Nearly there ;)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 07, 2013, 05:53:03 PM
Can I reserve a set of jigs and a turnout kit?  If there's only 30 I would like to be in the first batch if possible :), I suspect that those may go fairly quickly.
Like Vanders, I can't wait to give you some money!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: StuartM on August 07, 2013, 11:01:34 PM
Excellent idea.
I currently model in 2mm but had a product like this come along before I got started in 2mm then this would have been the route I'd have chosen as it would allow me to have finescale track without the need to replace all my wheels.
I still might give it go yet.
Good luck
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on August 08, 2013, 09:32:05 AM
Can I reserve a set of jigs and a turnout kit?  If there's only 30 I would like to be in the first batch if possible :), I suspect that those may go fairly quickly.
Like Vanders, I can't wait to give you some money!
Me too, especially as I just missed out on being a beta tester.

Waynne, are you going to restrict the initial orders to one turnout kit?

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 08, 2013, 11:05:50 AM
Hi Guys,

No reserving or limiting needed, once I am all prepared and click the button to go live, first thing I will be doing is starting the mill on another run or 2. I should be able to keep up.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 08, 2013, 11:33:46 AM
Ah, the benefit of in-house or in-office manufacturing!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 08, 2013, 11:47:24 AM
Hi Rabs,

Hehe yeah, I think you saw my mill when you came to collect the B9, right?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on August 08, 2013, 12:16:08 PM
Hi Rabs,

Hehe yeah, I think you saw my mill when you came to collect the B9, right?
a B9! Can we see a picture?

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 08, 2013, 12:59:27 PM
Haha! I should have realised the confusion when I typed it, sorry. I meant the B9 Creator, a name of a 3D printer.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 12, 2013, 03:39:16 PM
Hi Guys,

Probably my best post :)

20 months since the thread started, I have now put the website online and fiNetrax is officially release!

www.britishfinescale.com (http://www.britishfinescale.com)

(http://www.shoot35.com/banner01.jpg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Leo1961 on August 12, 2013, 04:15:13 PM
I wish you every success, I think you deserve it  :beers:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on August 12, 2013, 05:33:16 PM
Very well done indeed. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on August 12, 2013, 05:50:08 PM
Congratulations Wayne; you've put in an amazing amount of hard work and you deserve every success!  :beers:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: CarriageShed on August 12, 2013, 05:55:55 PM
Fantastic work. It's nice to be able to see it evolve from the 'inside'. Good luck!  :beers:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 12, 2013, 06:07:30 PM
I thought that I'd pounced quickly, only to find that I'm order number 12!  I hope that trend continues for you Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 12, 2013, 08:44:42 PM
Thanks for all your support, guys!

No I've gotta box up orders, AAAHHH! :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on August 13, 2013, 12:02:48 PM
Congratulations once again, and I have to say it's good to see such a professional website; all too often in the model business the website is an after-thought!

Now, I noticed you're offering a wax casting service, and this got me thinking...

One thing that's become very apparent to me recently is that no-one, and I really mean no-one, offers decent buffer stops in N gauge; you have the Peco plastic thing, the 2mm Society fold-up etches, and a single white-metal effort from Knightwing. There isn't even anything available on Shapeways, surprisingly.

If you compare that to the sort of range and quality that is available in 4mm & 7mm, it's kind of shocking. I have previously tried contacting Dave at Lanarkshire Models (http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshire%20models%20and%20supplies%20website_113.htm) to sound him out about the idea of doing some of his excellent kits in 1:148, but never received a reply: I suspect it's a bit of a leap into the unknown for someone who's already got a very successful range in 4mm, particularly off the back of a single message from a random guy!

So, if you were looking for a product that would use up some of your production capacity, perfectly compliment the track, and essentially be the only product on the market, a range of prototypical buffer stops to match would probably go down very well!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 13, 2013, 01:25:58 PM
Chris Higgs does a range of rather lovely buffer stops via the 2mmSA. Its hard if not impossible to 3D print them the obvious way they are too fragile.

You could of course bend them up directly out of Wayne's code 40 rail - after all that is now many of them are made.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on August 13, 2013, 01:57:25 PM
You could of course bend them up directly out of Wayne's code 40 rail - after all that is now many of them are made.

I've done that for some MR pattern stops, but it took ~10 hours to build all the jigs necessary to bend the rail. BR/LMS pattern buffer stops have proven nigh on impossible to do accurately.

As for the 2mm Society ones, by all accounts they're nice, but you have to be a member of the 2mm Society and I've seen a few people say they're actually fairly difficult to build due to all the folds involved.

I am genuinely confused as to why the N gauge market is so poorly catered for when it comes to this kind of thing. Then again look at how long it took us to get a decent 1:148 track system!  :confused1:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 13, 2013, 03:35:30 PM
This thread on the old RMWeb shows a set of jigs for 2mm which look pretty easy to make:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23703&start=125 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23703&start=125)
That's one of the best layout build threads I've ever seen and it's well worth a full read when you have a spare 30mins
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on August 13, 2013, 03:50:36 PM
This thread on the old RMWeb shows a set of jigs for 2mm which look pretty easy to make:


Yup, and Missy's method is the one I used for my buffer stops (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66223-laurence-hill/page-2#entry1104851), which is why I know how much work is involved in doing it! That type of jig only really works for certain types of buffer stops with curved bends in the rails: it doesn't really work for sharp bends like the LMS/BR pattern (ask me how I know!)

Still, before this thread de-rails any further "Build a jig and bend it up from bits of rail" isn't something the OO and O guys need to do, so why should N modellers be any worse off? There are better ways to do it, as guys like Dave at Lanarkshire Models shows, and something like the kits he produces but done in 1:148 scale would be amazingly awesome, if only someone did 'em!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 13, 2013, 05:01:26 PM
So talk to Dave and go do it.

I've looked at doing buffer stops but its not worth the effort as far as I can see. The number of people in N offended by the Peco ones isn't very large, many of those that are happen to be 2mmSA members.

To do a tool for them in plastic I'd need to sell over a thousand !
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on August 13, 2013, 06:21:04 PM
So talk to Dave and go do it.

I've looked at doing buffer stops but its not worth the effort as far as I can see. The number of people in N offended by the Peco ones isn't very large, many of those that are happen to be 2mmSA members.

As I said, I spoke to Dave and he doesn't seem interested, and Peco buffer stops on fiNetrax would look very odd indeed (the plastic "rail" section is huge compared to code 40 rail!)

Quote
To do a tool for them in plastic I'd need to sell over a thousand !

Right, but Wayne has a wax printer and capability to cast from those; that's how he's doing the frogs already. Like I said, buffer stops would seem to fit that production process and compliment the track nicely. If I could manage to draw anything with CAD I'd just do it myself and take advantage of Waynes ability to take commissions; as it is I can't, which is why I'm suggesting it here, now, for Wayne or anyone else who fancies a go.

If he's not interested then fair enough; Lord knows he already has enough on his plate as it is. I'm just throwing the idea out there; "There's a tiny handful of not particularly great options already" isn't a great reason not to float the idea, and frankly "It'll do" is how we ended up waiting this long for someone to come up with something as good as fiNetrax instead of "making do" with Peco all this time...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: CF-FZG on August 13, 2013, 07:02:52 PM
I've just spent most of today reading this thread, (including the links and videos), and all I can say is WOW! 

All the best Wayne, and I'm certainly going to be in the market for your track :thumbsup:




Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on August 14, 2013, 11:24:09 AM
Thanks for all your support, guys!

No I've gotta box up orders, AAAHHH! :D
Got my box of bits this morning - nicley packed Waynne. The turnout kits look really good in their boxes.

I got a separate bag of pins, but these were not mentioned anywhere. I presume they came with the etched chair plates or turnout kits. I have a cunning plan to use something like this as droppers by drilling a hole in some Easitrac brass sleepers. Therefore it would be good if they were offered separately (as extras) - but you also need to mention that they come with the kits anyway.

I was thinking I will need to label my plain line assembly jigs (Easitrac and fiNetrax) but I see the fiNetrax one has the name engraved on the base. Nice touch. I also think it better than the Easitrac one because it allows sleepers to extend beyond the jig.

I placed a turnout base on a Templot B6 turnout and aligned the position of the frog. The rails line up perfectly, so the geometry seems spot on. I regard this as very important - I plan to build my turnouts with long lengths of track rather than just the lengths that fit on the base. This should lead to much smoother running.

Exciting times ahead!

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 14, 2013, 12:50:20 PM
Hi Howard,

Glad you have received your package, you were my first order :)

The 0.4 wire is described in the instructions that come with the filing jig.

The fiNetrax plain line assembly jig was actually machined by the same guy that machined the easitrac ones.

Be sure to update us with build progress and pictures! :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on August 15, 2013, 10:21:06 AM
Hi Guys,

Just getting 30 kits together now, and doing the new website, hope to have this up first week of August :)

Since this thread is titled 'gauging interest', how many of you are thinking of purchasing a kit? On offer first will be left and right hand B6 kits @ £18e.

Over the last few weeks I have made most of the pointwork I need for phase 1 of my layout project - which is all based on B7 geometry. I have ordered 2 turnouts to complete this (engine release crossover doesn't affect the B7 planning) and to weigh up phase 2 (a few months off yet), which is designed around B6s (with an odd B5 that I will re-examine.

Regards
Brian

Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 16, 2013, 02:15:26 PM
Hi Guys,

30 Kits out the door now, thank you to everyone that has ordered so far :)

Ben Jones, Model Rail Mag editor says that fiNetrax will appear in the news section of the October issue (out Mid - End September) and then a full review in a later issue.

Exciting! :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 16, 2013, 02:17:23 PM
Looking forward to building mine once I've made some space.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: CarriageShed on August 16, 2013, 03:01:40 PM
Ben Jones, Model Rail Mag editor says that fiNetrax will appear in the news section of the October issue (out Mid - End September) and then a full review in a later issue.

You're also in the latest issue of N'spirations, although you probably knew that. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 16, 2013, 04:19:02 PM
Hi,

I didn't actually? What is the issue number?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: CarriageShed on August 16, 2013, 04:28:32 PM
Issue 12, just released. Hurry, they're going fast:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nspirations12-N-gauge-booklet-magazine-B4-British1-148-scale-/121160249215?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item1c35b6af7f (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nspirations12-N-gauge-booklet-magazine-B4-British1-148-scale-/121160249215?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item1c35b6af7f)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 16, 2013, 04:44:11 PM
Just bought one, thanks :)

Funny that Grahame did not mention this, as he is BETA testing for me...strange.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: CarriageShed on August 16, 2013, 11:25:57 PM
To be honest, I only knew because I was following the thread here:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=15243.msg151439#msg151439 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=15243.msg151439#msg151439)

I also have a search saved on eBay so I would have known in a day or two about the copies there.

All the best
Peter
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 17, 2013, 12:59:36 PM
Blimey, ordered mine yesterday evening (about 4:30pm on Friday) and got it next day Saturday morning!

FiNetrax is shown on page 28. Cool :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 20, 2013, 02:33:20 PM
Hi Wayne,
What type of plastic is the 1mm sheet that you mill the turnout bases from?  I'm going to have a go at a customised curved B6.  I'll be sure to post some pictures when it's finished.
Thanks
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 20, 2013, 03:42:00 PM
Hi Robert,

1mm HIPS black sheet. Try and get the stuff with the protective peel on one side, as this will peel off with the double sided tape (if using this to hold down the sheet of course).
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 20, 2013, 04:10:00 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on August 22, 2013, 09:39:39 AM
hi Wayne
Hi Guys,

30 Kits out the door now, thank you to everyone that has ordered so far :)


I had an e-mail from you a week ago advising me that my order had been shipped - but no sign to date, should I start worrying yet?

Regards
Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 22, 2013, 01:34:04 PM
Hi,

You certainly should have, please email me with your order number.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 22, 2013, 01:37:37 PM
Hi Brian,

I just checked your tracking number, it says they tried delvering on the 15th and left a 'while you were out' card.

Please email me for the trackirng number, the parcel will be at your local sorting office.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on August 22, 2013, 02:00:08 PM
Can I just say

How fantastic is it to be able to use the forum to talk to a business selling a brand new product. Not only have we been party to the development of the product but now as consumers, any niggles are dealt with fantastically quickly by the Man himself, not some faceless salesperson. And this is a secondary business for Wayne. In fact I'm not even sure it a business, more of a hobby.
Anyway I just wanted to say i find it personally fulfilling that we have people like Wayne in the hobby. Thanks Wayne.

Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on August 22, 2013, 02:13:38 PM
Hi Brian,

I just checked your tracking number, it says they tried delvering on the 15th and left a 'while you were out' card.

Please email me for the trackirng number, the parcel will be at your local sorting office.

Thanks Wayne
No trace of a card here - have sent e-mail ...
Regards
Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 22, 2013, 02:32:04 PM
Can I just say

How fantastic is it to be able to use the forum to talk to a business selling a brand new product. Not only have we been party to the development of the product but now as consumers, any niggles are dealt with fantastically quickly by the Man himself, not some faceless salesperson. And this is a secondary business for Wayne. In fact I'm not even sure it a business, more of a hobby.
Anyway I just wanted to say i find it personally fulfilling that we have people like Wayne in the hobby. Thanks Wayne.

Kirky

 :-[
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on August 22, 2013, 04:18:43 PM
Can I just say

How fantastic is it to be able to use the forum to talk to a business selling a brand new product. Not only have we been party to the development of the product but now as consumers, any niggles are dealt with fantastically quickly by the Man himself, not some faceless salesperson. And this is a secondary business for Wayne. In fact I'm not even sure it a business, more of a hobby.
Anyway I just wanted to say i find it personally fulfilling that we have people like Wayne in the hobby. Thanks Wayne.

Kirky


And I can I endorse that? ...
Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: CarriageShed on August 22, 2013, 11:00:18 PM
And I can I endorse that? ...
Brian

Seconded, even though I'm not a customer. It's very refreshing to have such 'face-to-face' contact with a supplier. Keep up the great work, Wayne  :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: alibuchan on August 24, 2013, 09:22:27 PM
Hi Guys,

Bit of a strange question but here goes.....

Where would this B6 point sit in comparison to the Peco range. I know that they are not in the same class detail wise but, Im talking more in the size department.

I have got 2 of the kits but I dont have any Peco ones to get a comparison.

I have brought the 2 points but not actually designed a layout for them! Oops!!!!

Any help would be great.

Alistair 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 25, 2013, 07:08:48 AM
Hi Alistair,

They compare to a code 55 medium turnout.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: alibuchan on August 25, 2013, 09:24:39 AM
Thanks Wayne.

I can start planning now.

Alistair
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on August 25, 2013, 12:26:28 PM
Hi Guys,

Bit of a strange question but here goes.....

Where would this B6 point sit in comparison to the Peco range. I know that they are not in the same class detail wise but, Im talking more in the size department.

I have got 2 of the kits but I dont have any Peco ones to get a comparison.

I have brought the 2 points but not actually designed a layout for them! Oops!!!!

Any help would be great.

Alistair 

I'm assuming you are using software with which to plan. If you are using anyrail for instance, you won't find point work listed as a B number. You will however be able to use Templot which uses B numbers (and A numbers) to describe points. it's a free download from here  www.templot.com (http://www.templot.com).
I use anyrail almost exclusively, but without doubt when building track, as with Wayne's Finetrax, Templot is a much better aid.
Hope this hels.

Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Izzy on August 25, 2013, 03:22:33 PM

You can visit the Peco website, download their track templates, and print them out. You would then be able to lay the plastic point base on them and get a size comparison. 

I believe that the Peco code 55 points small, medium, large, are roughly comparable in size to A5, B6, and B8 points when doing rough designing in such as Anyrail.

The big difference may be track centre distance.

Izzy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: alibuchan on August 25, 2013, 10:59:17 PM
Unfortunately I have no printer at the moment and my ipad connects to the Internet my laptop won't for some stupid reason that I can't work out. So viewing the Peco sheets is going to be dodgy.

I am using xtrkcad do designing the layout as I find this one quite easy to use.

Go my available space sorted and the box that it is going to live in just going to need another point and one of the nice crossings just so I say I have used it!

Alistair
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on August 26, 2013, 09:39:27 PM

Hello all,

Reading the emails above it would seem that a downloadable template similar to the Peco one would be something that might be quite useful to incorporate on the Finetrax website. 

However, I am also aware how infuriating it is when people offer suggestions for things that someone else might do, so Wayne if you want help with this or think it would be useful let me know.  From dimensions a PDF should be simple enough.

Another thought, I had a look a the Finetrax website and could not see an option for ordering just some packs of the straight sleeper mouldings - does this exist?

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 26, 2013, 10:33:52 PM
The B6 that Wayne is currently selling is a B6 for 9mm, 1:148 and is a standard template in templot.  If you need a paper template just plug that into templot and hit print.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 27, 2013, 07:34:12 AM
Thanks Guys,

I will try and get instructions and downloadable templates on the site soon, as this is a good idea.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on August 27, 2013, 11:43:39 AM
I had a look a the Finetrax website and could not see an option for ordering just some packs of the straight sleeper mouldings - does this exist?
I would also like this, especially as I have lots or rail from when I was using the 2mm Scale Association's Easitrac.
Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on August 27, 2013, 04:09:00 PM
Hi all just to say along with cleaning the flat I have now built most of one turnout.  Dead easy and really fell together. chairs with the plug on bottom fits nicely into sleeper base and with a rail threaded through glued in place with mekpak.  I will sort out switch rails tomorrow and hope to show progress to Warley Club N group tonight.  A great jump on available pointwork!
Thanks Wayne..

Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on August 27, 2013, 04:31:58 PM
Hi all just to say along with cleaning the flat I have now built most of one turnout.  Dead easy and really fell together. chairs with the plug on bottom fits nicely into sleeper base and with a rail threaded through glued in place with mekpak.  I will sort out switch rails tomorrow and hope to show progress to Warley Club N group tonight.  A great jump on available pointwork!
Thanks Wayne..
Robert

Yes having plugs on the bottom of the chairs is a brilliant idea. I also think the solution for moving the switch blades is excellent.

I had a few problems on my first point.

I was too vigorous with gapping the copper tie bar and it broke in half. I tried making one with a copper clad sleeper, but it is not wide enough. Fortunately Wayne can provide a replacement. The lesson here is to be gentle when making the gap (and best check with a meter that you've gone far enough)

I made one switch rail too short, so on my second point I used the (corrected) ones from the first point as a guide.

Altogether I found it a very enjoyable process.

I placed the completed turnout against a Peco one and had to wonder why we've put up with this "toy train" product for so long.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on August 27, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
I know Wayne recommends a file, but I would suggest a scalpel blade.  I always use this if I have to cut tracks on copper PCBs.  Tilt the knife one way and cut, then angle it the other and cut about 0.5mm away, with the tilt pushing the blade under the copper and towards your first cut.  This will lift out a neat sliver of copper with low risk of cutting through or weakening the fibreglass beneath.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on August 27, 2013, 07:07:12 PM
Can I be so bold as to ask those who have tackled a point or two, to share their good work photographically.
I still haven't found the time to begin mine, and I wouldn't care but I'm on holiday.

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on August 29, 2013, 08:52:22 AM
Hi , have a quick look on other finetrax thread - put up pic of work so far, well done some more and will do pic later - building 3 ! Size wise point makes for a med rad peco turnout, say 18 -20 inch/ 500 mm rad.  I have put same pic on RM Web for 4mm folk to view !!
robert 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on August 29, 2013, 02:35:49 PM
Hi , have a quick look on other finetrax thread - put up pic of work so far, well done some more and will do pic later - building 3 ! Size wise point makes for a med rad peco turnout, say 18 -20 inch/ 500 mm rad.  I have put same pic on RM Web for 4mm folk to view !!
robert 
Hi Robert
Thanks for that, it. Looks good! How long did it take you to get to that point in the building of the turnout?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on August 29, 2013, 11:14:44 PM
hi ,
Basic construction about one hour but spread over two to allow  eyes to recover - I recon on 30 minute stints to prevent fatigue and or rushing both lower standards and raise frustration.
Just had a 15 minute session on third turnout and added 17 chairs and slid in two rails and glued chairs.

I would think 4 hours would see whole turnout made given the filling of blades and tiebar building, should also see droppers attached.
more pics to follow(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on August 30, 2013, 05:37:20 PM
I have almost completed 3 turnouts (just waiting for a replacement tiebar from Wayne for the one I broke). At present they look the same as on Wayne's website.

They are for the following track plan (Templot design)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6628.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6628)
There is a double arched bridge to the right, which is why the tracks have greater than normal separation. The turnout at top left will lead to the goods yard.

At the same time as building these turnouts, I am experimenting with
1) ballasting using the Norman Soloman approach (lay track on glue, then sprinkle ballast)
2) providing droppers on plain track (using brass pins in brass Easitrac sleepers)
3) providing a transisition from 2mm Easitrac on the right hand baseboard to all fiNescale track on this baseboard.
4) using 50cm lengths of rail through plain track and turnouts to provide smoother running.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on August 30, 2013, 10:31:44 PM
Hi plan looks good . Your plan covers much the same ground as mine with 3 points. I was looking at a Lybster style HR station on Blue diesel days albeit called Ullapool..
I have just done three blades . 3 more todo and then its tiebar time so hopefully tomorrow a few more pics and perhaps something finished
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 01, 2013, 04:17:00 PM
Hi Guys,

1in6 crossing is coming along nicely and should be out and a week or so.

I just did some ballasting tests and thought I would share:

(http://shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC00212a.jpg)
(http://shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC00213a.jpg)
(http://shoot35.com/modelrailwaytrackimages/DSC00214a.jpg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on September 01, 2013, 06:36:30 PM
Wayne, can we see a top down view, especially on the turnout?

With the advent of Easitrac and fiNetrax, ballasting is possible now by setting plain track down on PVA and sprinkling on ballast. Here is my result
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6668.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6668)
a little bit of tidying up is required, but I'm very pleased with the result - especially the neat shoulder to the ballast. Its certainly a lot quicker than the traditional method.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on September 01, 2013, 10:48:55 PM
Hi ,
The ballasting is brilliant - like looking at Ivo Peter`s pics of the S&D
Thanks for sharing.
robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on September 02, 2013, 01:30:26 AM
Some pictures of my modified B6.  On my layout I need a RH B6 set on a left hand curve.  Starting with Wayne's kit but putting the base to one side I loaded the template from my templot plan and used it to program my home-made cnc mill:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6671.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6671)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6670.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6670)

Here is the point partly assembled on my customised base:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6673.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6673)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6672.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6672)

The rails are just rested in place at the moment until I prepare the switch blades.

I accidentally cut the sleepers too shallow and I didn't cut away at the sides but this particular point is in a yard with ash ballasting, so all the sleepers are completely buried anyway.  I'll get the depth right on my other points where it will make a difference to the appearance.

One thing I did do which would apply to Wayne's bases too was to gently scrub the top surface of the base with a wire brush along the sleepers.  This takes away the shiny finish and leaves a slight texture which could pass as wood grain.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 02, 2013, 07:54:00 AM
Wayne, can we see a top down view, especially on the turnout?

With the advent of Easitrac and fiNetrax, ballasting is possible now by setting plain track down on PVA and sprinkling on ballast. Here is my result
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6668.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6668[/url])
a little bit of tidying up is required, but I'm very pleased with the result - especially the neat shoulder to the ballast. Its certainly a lot quicker than the traditional method.

Howard.


Nice and neat, Howard.

I am using a similar technique, as I also prefer sprinkling ballast onto already laid down PVA - I think it is quicker and you get a cleaner result with less cleaning/buggering about with stray ballast.

I am, however, laying the track first, then applying 50/50 PVA/water with a small paint brush around the sleepers, then sprinkling on the ballast.

I'll see if I can get a top down view.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 02, 2013, 07:56:01 AM
Some pictures of my modified B6.  On my layout I need a RH B6 set on a left hand curve.  Starting with Wayne's kit but putting the base to one side I loaded the template from my templot plan and used it to program my home-made cnc mill:
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6671.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6671[/url])
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6670.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6670[/url])

Here is the point partly assembled on my customised base:
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6673.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6673[/url])
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6672.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6672[/url])

The rails are just rested in place at the moment until I prepare the switch blades.

I accidentally cut the sleepers too shallow and I didn't cut away at the sides but this particular point is in a yard with ash ballasting, so all the sleepers are completely buried anyway.  I'll get the depth right on my other points where it will make a difference to the appearance.

One thing I did do which would apply to Wayne's bases too was to gently scrub the top surface of the base with a wire brush along the sleepers.  This takes away the shiny finish and leaves a slight texture which could pass as wood grain.


Hi Robert,

Nice to see others milling turnout bases :)

I use a 0.7mm timber depth and 0.3mm webbing.

What drill bit size are you using for the chair holes and also what type of bit for milling the base?

I did a similar thing before, using fine sandpaper to get a texture on the timber tops. It looks good but I am not sure of you can do the same on the plain line?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on September 02, 2013, 09:34:48 AM
I used a 0.9mm bit for the chair holes, which seemed to make the chairs a fraction harder to put in than on your base but I didn't have a bit to hand between this and 1mm, which is too big.
For milling the base I'm using a 1mm, 2 flute endmill cutter at the highest revs I could manage before the plastic started to clog and melt.  I've just ordered some 2mm single flute cutters which should be better for this and will speed up the process a bit.

What feeds and speeds have you been using?

Good point about texturing the plain line - only one way to find out.

I've just noticed on some of your earlier pictures that you had gaps in the bottom of the cast frog to match the sleeper gaps.  Did you go away from this because it didn't cast properly without a solid 'base' for the frog?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on September 02, 2013, 10:08:16 AM
Some pictures of my modified B6.  On my layout I need a RH B6 set on a left hand curve.  Starting with Wayne's kit but putting the base to one side I loaded the template from my templot plan and used it to program my home-made cnc mill:
Sorry to go off topic but did you design your CNC mill? Are the designs online?

Thanks
Michael
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 02, 2013, 10:11:43 AM
Hi Robert,

I use a 0.95mm drill bit for the holes and found that a 2mm single flute flat bottom router cutter is cleanest.

I will have to check feed rates and spindle speeds and I have done alot og adjustment over the last month, so can't remember :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on September 02, 2013, 10:18:39 AM
Good, good.  That's what I thought and why I'd ordered some 0.95mm bits.

@Michael, it is my own design.  I've not published the design because it was designed around some specific bits of scrap from my lab so the design was compromised a bit so that I could use them.  It probably wouldn't be much use to anyone else.  There are better plans available if you are starting from scratch.  Alternatively you can get a Chinese 3040 mill from ebay and, if needed, improve it.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 02, 2013, 11:20:04 AM
The chinese 3040 is what I use to mill the fiNetrax bases. The machine is very accurate.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on September 02, 2013, 11:55:37 AM
3 turnouts done- cosmetic chairs added to casting and track feed droppers (Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
added - thanks Wayne a great product
 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on September 02, 2013, 12:05:49 PM
I've used a dry run with my 3 turnouts, using some long lengths of rail to join them together. I still need to arrange droppers, and I'm waiting on a replacement tie bar from Wayne - although I may fabricate one from 30 thou plasticard.

First I placed the track over a Templot design, and it lines up very well.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6674.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6674)
On the right on both tracks the rail is soldered to milled sleepers (2mm Scale Association 1-027). These will not only provide a rigid attachment across the baseboard joint but, in this case, provide the re-alignment from Easitrac 9.42mm track on the right to 9mm fiNetrax.

On the top track is a brass sleeper (2mm 1-179) which, of course, has to be gapped and so can fit fiNetrax. On the outside of the sleepers I have drilled a fine hole to take a long brass pin. The hole can be countersunk to take the head of the pin and then the pin soldered in place and the top filed flat. The idea is to be able to attach droppers after the track is glued down, and to avoid the ugliness of soldering wire to the side of the track. The brass sleepers have a hole underneath the track, so can be soldered to the track for good electrical connection.

On this plan I marked the position of the moving tie bars, the position of the frog and where I will place the brass sleepers - in all cases trying to avoid baseboard joints. I miscalculated on the turnout on the top right and had to cut one sleeper from the turnout base!

To make things clearer, the next picture shows the tracks on plain paper.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6676.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6676)

The turnout at the top left goes to the goods yard and the next item on that siding is a catch point. I have suggested to Wayne he might like to make one available and I've sent him the Templot design.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6677.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6677)
However he is working on getting the crossing out, then some other turnouts (B8 I think), then a crossover (2 turnouts on a single base) so it will be a while. It should be a simple kit and should be cheaper than a full turnout, so may appeal to someone who wants to do a trial first.

In the meantime I'm thinking I might buy another kit and doctor it!

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on September 02, 2013, 12:17:29 PM
Hi Catch point on my list and I was contemplating using left over chairs from kits and a 2mm assoc base using sleeper bases from finetrax to ease gauging.
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on September 02, 2013, 12:37:05 PM
3 turnouts done- cosmetic chairs added to casting and track feed droppers added - thanks Wayne a great product
Robert, I cannot see the cosmetic chairs - can you take closer shot.

I totally agree its a great product - it is very enjoyable to build.

I was a bit apprehensive about the cast frog, but the latest rolling stock rolls through without a problem. Earlier Peco wagons shudder a bit, but then I've been thinking of re-wheeling them anyway.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on September 02, 2013, 10:15:32 PM
I've found the same - peco plastic wheels foul the frog and bump on the chairs but I was going to replace them anyway with nice metal ones.

I've just finished my customised point and I found the build mostly great.  I do have a couple of suggestions though, which might help in future.

1) The blade assembly and filing jig:  If the angled slot for filing was cut in the underside of the upper part instead of the top side of the bigger (lower) part then different blade angles could be accommodated with a standard base and a set of the small uppers with grooves at different angles, which would be much cheaper in total than several completely separate jigs.

2) The base could do with some holes for droppers, particularly in the middle of the frog.

3) Perhaps a note in the instructions on how you suggest doing droppers without melting the base or chairs, as this can be a bit tricky

4) Perhaps a step in the instructions to tell people to gently file the top surface of the slide chairs flat after cutting the inside chair lug off, so that the surface is nice and smooth for the blade to slide on.  When I did it the first time I found that the blades snagged on some very small burrs and I had to disassemble, clean them up and then start again with the rails.

Best wishes

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5982 on September 03, 2013, 12:26:33 PM

1) The blade assembly and filing jig:  If the angled slot for filing was cut in the underside of the upper part instead of the top side of the bigger (lower) part then different blade angles could be accommodated with a standard base and a set of the small uppers with grooves at different angles, which would be much cheaper in total than several completely separate jigs.

2) The base could do with some holes for droppers, particularly in the middle of the frog.

3) Perhaps a note in the instructions on how you suggest doing droppers without melting the base or chairs, as this can be a bit tricky

4) Perhaps a step in the instructions to tell people to gently file the top surface of the slide chairs flat after cutting the inside chair lug off, so that the surface is nice and smooth for the blade to slide on.  When I did it the first time I found that the blades snagged on some very small burrs and I had to disassemble, clean them up and then start again with the rails.


Some good suggestions, Rabs.
On point 1, it would take up less space as well! Actually, the situation would arise only if you are using a mix of (say) B and C type blades - the blade angles don't change between a B6 and B8, but would between a B6 and a C6 ....

Wayne does suggest in the instructions that the wires be soldered to the rails before threading them into the chairs - ie at the "rear end" as threading ...

I missed that the chair plates aren't included when I ordered - going back to the site and checking, there is an "important information" section, which is off the bottom of the screen of my laptop as it loads, so I missed the fact that the chair plates are not included (I knew I needed a jig and had everything else, so just missed out on this). I'll certainly remember for the future (actually I'm putting some in stock for likely future needs before I forget!), but perhaps this could be made a bit clearer for others, Wayne?

Another suggestion - don't wear dark blue trousers whilst fiddling with the chairs!

Is there any mileage in using the pins to couple to the turnout operating unit? I'm thinking in terms of leaving them full length and linking both to the mechanism below the baseboard.

Brian

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on September 03, 2013, 01:13:12 PM
4) Perhaps a step in the instructions to tell people to gently file the top surface of the slide chairs flat after cutting the inside chair lug off, so that the surface is nice and smooth for the blade to slide on.  When I did it the first time I found that the blades snagged on some very small burrs and I had to disassemble, clean them up and then start again with the rails.
I've taken to removing the chairs one at a time and inserting them in a 0.95mm hole (drilled in the filing jig). I can then clean them up and - where needed - cut away parts of the base. Perhaps because of this I've not (yet) found a need to file the tops of the slide chairs.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 04, 2013, 05:22:26 PM
I've found the same - peco plastic wheels foul the frog and bump on the chairs but I was going to replace them anyway with nice metal ones.

Hmm, that's odd. None of my Peco wagons foul the chairs?

I've just finished my customised point and I found the build mostly great.  I do have a couple of suggestions though, which might help in future.

1) The blade assembly and filing jig:  If the angled slot for filing was cut in the underside of the upper part instead of the top side of the bigger (lower) part then different blade angles could be accommodated with a standard base and a set of the small uppers with grooves at different angles, which would be much cheaper in total than several completely separate jigs.

Great idea however there are 2 issues. 1st, both the top and bottom piece are milled at the set angle (a, b or c), not just one piece. The other issue is the jig will slowly ware from use. If different plates were used, they would ware unevenly.

2) The base could do with some holes for droppers, particularly in the middle of the frog.

I did not do this for the first batch/design as I thought that droppers going straight down would prevent the turnout laying flat on the work desk while constructing. I have seen a few of you do this anyway so if I just add the holes then the user can choose I guess.

3) Perhaps a note in the instructions on how you suggest doing droppers without melting the base or chairs, as this can be a bit tricky

The wires are intended to be soldered to the rail before threading into the base/chairs. I will add to the assembly notes section on wiring, that this is intended.

4) Perhaps a step in the instructions to tell people to gently file the top surface of the slide chairs flat after cutting the inside chair lug off, so that the surface is nice and smooth for the blade to slide on.  When I did it the first time I found that the blades snagged on some very small burrs and I had to disassemble, clean them up and then start again with the rails.

I guess that is one technique you can use. I have found that a sharp modelling knife will remove the inner chair cleanly. Maybe I should emphasis in the instruction that this should be done cleanly and the potential issues if not done correctly.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on September 04, 2013, 07:59:17 PM
Hmm, that's odd. None of my Peco wagons foul the chairs?


I'll try a few more of my wagons and see, it may just be one rogue wheel.

Quote
Great idea however there are 2 issues. 1st, both the top and bottom piece are milled at the set angle (a, b or c), not just one piece. The other issue is the jig will slowly ware from use. If different plates were used, they would ware unevenly.


Although the side with the ridge could have multiple ridges at different angles without affecting its performance.  Fair enough on the wear issue though.

Quote
I did not do this for the first batch/design as I thought that droppers going straight down would prevent the turnout laying flat on the work desk while constructing. I have seen a few of you do this anyway so if I just add the holes then the user can choose I guess.


As you say, it can't hurt.

Quote
The wires are intended to be soldered to the rail before threading into the base/chairs. I will add to the assembly notes section on wiring, that this is intended.


I was being a numpty, the instructions are perfectly clear.  I must have missed that bit (and the large colourful diagram!)


Quote
I guess that is one technique you can use. I have found that a sharp modelling knife will remove the inner chair cleanly. Maybe I should emphasis in the instruction that this should be done cleanly and the potential issues if not done correctly.


The only 'problem' was that the blades 'ticked' slightly as they slid over where the lug had been.  They certainly looked clean under a 4x magnifier before assembly and it didn't affect the operation, so perhaps my second round of cleaning was unnecessary. I probably should have just ignored it!

By the way, I tried brushing the plain line bases (top base is brushed, bottom is not):
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/thumb_6730.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6730)
As you can see, the harder plastic didn't take any striations looking like wood grain, which I saw on the point base, but it did take the shine off them.  I probably won't bother on the layout because I'll be painting it all anyway.  The plain line bases also don't have quite the 'mirror finish' of the HIPS sheet, so it's less of an issue in the first place.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 05, 2013, 03:33:43 PM
Yay, finally decided on taking the 3 hour drive to TINGS on Saturday!

I will have flyers and hope to leave these at various stands. I'll also have track samples on me.

I aim to be walking around between 10am - 1pm. I will be wearing a red T-Shirt with a Laptop Bag :), if you spot me please say hello and ask for a flyer :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: mereman on September 05, 2013, 03:40:01 PM
Yay, finally decided on taking the 3 hour drive to TINGS on Saturday!

I will have flyers and hope to leave these at various stands. I'll also have track samples on me.

I aim to be walking around between 10am - 1pm. I will be wearing a red T-Shirt with a Laptop Bag :), if you spot me please say hello and ask for a flyer :D

I misread that at first I thought it said a Fiver :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 05, 2013, 03:44:22 PM

I misread that at first I thought it said a Fiver :goggleeyes:

Man, this is gonna cost me  :hmmm:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 08, 2013, 08:54:35 AM
TINGS was pretty cool, I left some flyers with Mark at the Scale 148 Stand.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on September 08, 2013, 07:42:27 PM

I misread that at first I thought it said a Fiver :goggleeyes:

Man, this is gonna cost me  :hmmm:

 :laugh:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on September 08, 2013, 09:51:22 PM
Hi ,
I put on the 1:148 stand a finished turnout and some ballasted plain track along with a sprue and a chair plate fret. moved around alont and played with and no blade/ tie bar failures so thank to those who tested it ! Other points show to some of the greater good as well  and all mightly impressed. I hope this will impress on them to develop layouts.

Well now to save up having bought far to much at TINGS . Next Finetrax order looks like several more points and a couple of traps plus plain track .

How about flatbottom and concrete was one question I got several times ?
Robert   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 09, 2013, 08:20:04 AM
Hi Robert,

Thanks for putting that out on the stand, I saw it there and was pleased to see people looking at it :)

I am not thinking about flat bottom or concrete sleepers right now, I need to recoup the tooling costs i've invested so far :(
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on September 09, 2013, 09:09:02 AM

Hello Wayne,

I am sorry I missed you - I was there from around 1230 to 1630 on Saturday.  I did have a chat with Robert Shrives who showed me the turnout he had constructed and I was very impressed indeed.

When we next build a club layout, or when I next build something for myself, I will definitely be ordering some Finetrax to have a play around.  For modern image enthusiasts like me it will have to be Finetrax bullhead rail in sidings and maybe Easitrack flat bottomed concrete sleeper for the main lines, or even Peco Code 55 as to my eye that is OK for modern heavy-duty track.

For me, the advantage Finetrax has over Easitrack is that it can be mixed-and-matched to suit, allowing us all to adopt it to whatever extent we want.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on September 09, 2013, 11:16:17 AM
I put on the 1:148 stand a finished turnout and some ballasted plain track along with a sprue and a chair plate fret.
Thanks for doing that, I showed it to several 2mm modellers on the Sunday. I reckon they might buy the chair plates and jig!

Next Finetrax order looks like several more points and a couple of traps plus plain track .
Have you seen Peco's offering for a trap point?

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on September 11, 2013, 06:48:27 PM
... the next item on that siding is a catch point. I have suggested to Wayne he might like to make one available and I've sent him the Templot design.
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6677.png[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6677[/url])

Wayne has followed my suggestion and sent me a trial kit
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/thumb_6972.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6972)
There were no instructions (but will be in the final kit), however it was pretty obvious where the various chairs went by reference to the turnout instructions.

As can be seen, he supplied two etched chairs. Following his suggestion I used both in order to stop the other side of the tie bar from lifting.

It was very straightforward to build, and I extended it on either side with some plain track panels. I tried hand pushing a wagon through and it derailed when the point was in the "open" position. I'll post another picture when its been painted and ballasted.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/thumb_6973.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6973)

BTW if you tried building a turnout and found you had cut the switch rail too short, you might be able to re-use it in a catch point. Just ensure the switch blade is of the correct orientation.

Compare this to Peco's offering (only available in code 80).
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/thumb_6974.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6974)

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on September 12, 2013, 11:02:14 AM
3 turnouts done- cosmetic chairs added to casting and track feed droppers added(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
I like the idea of cosmetic chairs added to the casting. I have plenty of plain chairs left over and it is easy to remove the locating pins.

I'm wondering if my painting/ballasting plan is workable. I have not yet glued the chairs to the turnout bases. I had thought of airbrushing the rails & sleepers (plain track) & turnout bases in situ. Then removing the rails from the turnout bases with chairs attached, painting all the chairs a rust colour by hand (turnout and plain track). Next ballasting the gaps between sleepers on the turnout bases. Then presenting the rails to the turnout bases and gluing the chairs in place. Finally place everything (turnouts and plain track) onto PVA and sprinkle ballast over the plain track.

The problem I see with this is that I cannot decide how and when to solder a wire between the switch rails and stock rails. The switch rails have to be placed before the stock rails otherwise you cannot insert the pins in the etched plates into the tie bar.

How have others provided electrical bonding to the switch rails?

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on September 12, 2013, 12:01:57 PM
I'm very hesitant about laying the track onto wet PVA and ballasting immediately.  I'm convinced of the importance of testing every last mm of track with a variety of stock before doing any ballasting.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 12, 2013, 12:47:42 PM
I like the idea of cosmetic chairs added to the casting. I have plenty of plain chairs left over and it is easy to remove the locating pins.

This is the intention as you will see in all my photos, but just realised I missed that step out from the instructions!  :-[
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on September 12, 2013, 12:59:28 PM
Is there any reason that they couldn't be incorporated into the cast frog itself and save a fiddly assembly step?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on September 12, 2013, 02:41:20 PM
I'm very hesitant about laying the track onto wet PVA and ballasting immediately.  I'm convinced of the importance of testing every last mm of track with a variety of stock before doing any ballasting.
I used to think that, but decided to try ballasting immediately after seeing Norman Soloman in action (see Activity Media's Right Track DVD no. 10 "Laying Terrific Trackwork").  I just cannot get such a fine ballast shoulder with the "traditional" method of applying ballast loose and then applying adhesive.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 12, 2013, 03:06:55 PM
Is there any reason that they couldn't be incorporated into the cast frog itself and save a fiddly assembly step?

I decided against this in the end as the chairs would be nickel silver in colour and the rest of the plastic chairs black. Shouldn't be a problem if completely painting over everything, but I didn't want to force that.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on September 12, 2013, 04:27:35 PM
I'm very hesitant about laying the track onto wet PVA and ballasting immediately.  I'm convinced of the importance of testing every last mm of track with a variety of stock before doing any ballasting.
I used to think that, but decided to try ballasting immediately after seeing Norman Soloman in action (see Activity Media's Right Track DVD no. 10 "Laying Terrific Trackwork").  I just cannot get such a fine ballast shoulder with the "traditional" method of applying ballast loose and then applying adhesive.

Howard.

But in most cases you want ballast up to the top of the sleepers, so don't you have to form the shoulder yourself anyway once the ballast is more than 1 grain deep?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on September 14, 2013, 07:01:43 PM
.. I cannot decide how and when to solder a wire between the switch rails and stock rails.
A friend has decided to mill (or cut) away the base between 2 sleepers up to the switch rail. Then he intends to turn the point over and solder a wire to the switch rail and stock rail.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on September 30, 2013, 05:41:54 PM
I've been experimenting with some 5mm acrylic laser cut jigs. The idea is to help align two sections of track.

My first attempt used holes for slotted M2 machine screws, with the slots aligned so the track would sit inside the slots. A larger hole was included to judge if the rail lengths were cut correctly - hopefully the attached picture shows they are not.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/thumb_7214.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=7214)
I then realised I could engrave a line to sit on the track, and also open up the large holes to the sides. This allows a small piece of brass to be inserted to give the required expansion gap.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/thumb_7215.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=7215)
In practise the engraved lines just about work, but could do with being deeper. If I had a CNC milling machine I would do that, but for now I'll stick with the M2 machine screws.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on September 30, 2013, 09:11:42 PM
I've been experimenting with some 5mm acrylic laser cut jigs. The idea is to help align two sections of track.

My first attempt used holes for slotted M2 machine screws, with the slots aligned so the track would sit inside the slots. A larger hole was included to judge if the rail lengths were cut correctly - hopefully the attached picture shows they are not.
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/thumb_7214.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=7214[/url])
I then realised I could engrave a line to sit on the track, and also open up the large holes to the sides. This allows a small piece of brass to be inserted to give the required expansion gap.
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/thumb_7215.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=7215[/url])
In practise the engraved lines just about work, but could do with being deeper. If I had a CNC milling machine I would do that, but for now I'll stick with the M2 machine screws.

Howard.

Could you not cut those those engraved lines with a router? How wide are they? I'm sure I have a router bit that is less than 1mm wide.

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 30, 2013, 09:16:46 PM
For track that isn't board joins I've always threaded and cut the rail so the join is in the middle of a sleeper moulding.

If I need to align them exactly then a bit of stainless steel scrap the right width jammed between the inside of the rails does the trick nicely (and won't easily solder if soldering the outsides)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on September 30, 2013, 09:26:44 PM
Could you not cut those those engraved lines with a router? How wide are they? I'm sure I have a router bit that is less than 1mm wide.
Yes you could, or you could mill the whole thing. I chose to do everything with laser cutting.

The engraved lines need to be thick enough to go over the track, I used 0.5mm.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on October 07, 2013, 08:28:51 AM
Hi use of bolts over inset grooves allows sideview to watch vertical alinement.
I guess for curves a piece of the commercially available track setta templates would work , the idea of staggered joints works for freeform curvature.

At Dapol openday interest in system but a lack of a fishplate did put folk off so getting this jig to market will help the project

Robert   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on October 07, 2013, 08:49:31 AM
Hi use of bolts over inset grooves allows sideview to watch vertical alinement.
Good point, I hadn't thought of that.

... getting this jig to market will help the project
Over to Wayne.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on October 10, 2013, 07:29:46 PM
Well order placed for 5 turnouts and sleeper packs to start layout - board and foam in stock - fun starts - hope pictures to follow .
Anybody more advanced than me !
Robert 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: 5944 on October 11, 2013, 07:35:29 PM
Well order placed for 5 turnouts and sleeper packs to start layout - board and foam in stock - fun starts - hope pictures to follow .
Anybody more advanced than me !
Robert
I bought a pair of points, one of each hand, and a couple of lengths of track a couple of weeks ago. Half a length of track assembled, pretty easy to do once you get into a rhythm, but haven't had a go at the points yet.

I think I need about fourteen points in total for the layout I'm planning, but also a single slip. As the slip is a fairly important part of the trackwork, it means I can plod along building points and flexitrack as and when funds and time permits, until Wayne releases the single slip.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 27, 2013, 10:49:51 AM
Hi Guys,

Sorry, I have been very quiet lately, I must appologise but I have had to work on finishing the CAD design and drawings for a new product for my camera accessory business. I am glad to say this is now complete so I can turn my attention back to finetrax kits.

Tomorrow/Tuesday I will be releasing a B8 turnout kit followed by a 'catch point' kit. I built up the B8 yesterday and all is good.

Bellow is my indended kit releases in order:

B8
Catch Point
1in6 Diamond
A5
1in8 Diamond
1in5 Diamond
B6 Crossover
B8 Crossover
A5 Crossover
1in6 Single Slip
1in6 Double Slip
1in8 Single Slip
1in8 Double Slip
B6 Crossover with Diamond
B8 Crossover with Diamond
A5 Crossover with Diamond
B6 Crossover with Slip
B8 Crossover with Slip
A5 Crossover with Slip
B6 Scissor Crossover

The diamond crossing is taking longer to perfect as I have had problems with casting the K crossings. I need to add more gates to the sprue which will aid in metal fill.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on October 27, 2013, 12:16:57 PM
Hi Wayne,
I was wondering why it had gone quiet.

Will you be providing the cast frogs? They have a category on your website, but no entry as yet.

Having built the prototype catch point I'd be happy to check over the building instructions if you'd like.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 27, 2013, 04:44:45 PM
Hi Howard,

I was intending on providing cast crossings without pins for users that wish to build in the traditional method.

However, I am working towards getting the frogs successfully cast from rubber moulds vs the 3D printer - running the 3d printer is a little stressful and there is also a lot (£21K) invested in the printer. If I don't have to rely on the printer I can get a lot of my investment back.

If this is the case, I would need to pay for rubber moulds to produce frogs without pins - not too much of an outlay, but I am not too sure how much of a demand there would be?

Thanks, I'll buzz you over instructions once finished.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on October 27, 2013, 05:00:32 PM
I was intending on providing cast crossings without pins

I was hoping for frogs with pins as I have damaged one of mine (don't know how it happened)

...there is also a lot (£21K) invested in the printer. If I don't have to rely on the printer I can get a lot of my investment back.
You still have a lot of investment whether you use the printer or not!

Howard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on October 27, 2013, 08:11:26 PM
IMHO anyone who is building stuff by hand the old fashioned way can saw a pin off a frog !
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on October 27, 2013, 09:25:53 PM
 Hi thanks for list of likely production plan - will look out for a single slip to make up over next year plus I guess . Sadly due to work and show pressures not had chance to do pointwork but maybe in December after Warley show.
Robert   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: CF-FZG on October 27, 2013, 10:37:04 PM
Thanks for the list Wayne :thumbsup:

Please leave the pins on the frogs etc.

Oh, what track spacing are you planning for the crossovers??


Thanks,
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on October 28, 2013, 12:18:38 PM
Looks like a good list of things to be getting on with!  Do you think that a C point might also be worth having somewhere on the list?  To me it seems that it might be better to cover the basics (filing jigs for A,B and C and Frogs 1in6 and 1in8) before going into very specialist formations like scissor crossings or crossovers with slips.  My suspicion (with absolutely no evidence other than my own track plan :) ) is that  people who care enough about track appearance for fiNetrax are more likely to be using C points than A (and both less common than B)

Also, I agree with Alan - anyone using your parts for scratch building can file the pin off or drill a hole in whatever they are fixing it to.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 01, 2013, 01:46:35 PM
Hi Guys,

B8 kits are up on the website :)

@ CF-FZG - I have designed around 23mm track centres (measured from the track centre line, not the rail edges).
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: CF-FZG on November 01, 2013, 05:45:29 PM
Thanks Wayne, so that's around a scale 6'4" between rails :thumbsup: 

Cheers,

off to look at the B8 now ;)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: workwright on December 14, 2013, 05:01:54 PM
Hi, I hope nothing has gone wrong.  It has been a long time since I have seen anything on here from Wayne.  After waiting from 2007 I finally got the 2mt.  It runs well on Wayne's plain track. So now I have to find the time to build the five points and build the boards.  I hope the crossings are on the way. Is it possible to order custom point bases yet?  I would like some interlaced sleeper bases.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on December 14, 2013, 06:33:07 PM
Hi, I hope nothing has gone wrong.  It has been a long time since I have seen anything on here from Wayne.
Yes, and the website has not been updated for a long time.

I was hoping to get a replacement cast frog as I've damaged one of mine.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on December 15, 2013, 12:36:00 AM
Guys, the B8 kits were launched only just over a month ago! Unless people have been ordering stuff but it hasn't arrived, I'd assume Wayne has simply been busy actually running his business.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 16, 2013, 02:32:39 PM
Hi Guys,

Yes still here and still shipping! :)

I have had problems casting the K Crossings for the diamond, working on getting this sorted. Sorry for the delay.

Best way to contact me to via email on the website :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 07, 2014, 02:07:19 PM
Hi Guys,

I have just released the 1 in 6 Diamond Crossing Kit, now on my website :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on February 07, 2014, 02:50:08 PM
I have just released the 1 in 6 Diamond Crossing Kit, now on my website :)

Now that is a tasty looking bit of trackwork :thumbsup:

I can't wait to see a double junction built out of fiNetrax...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on February 07, 2014, 03:05:17 PM
Fabulous, dare I ask what's next?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 07, 2014, 03:34:06 PM
Thanks,

Next will be:
Catch Point
A5 Turnout
1in8 Diamond
1in5 Diamond
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on February 07, 2014, 08:17:21 PM
Wayne, I've been meaning to ask: when the bleedin' 'eck will fiNetrax see a single review in the mags?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on February 23, 2014, 11:28:47 PM
Having seen one of these points 'in the flesh' last weekend, I will be taking the plunge fairly soon. I think the slightly shorter A5 point will be more suitable for what I have in mind.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 25, 2014, 10:16:53 AM
Hi Guys,

Other projects out the way, I can now spend more time on fiNetrax.

I have just milled A5 and 1in8 diamond bases (wow, long base!) so these are underway.

I am currently trying to find another caster/foundry. My current caster has been giving me various results and communication has been terrible.

I am now in contact with the casters that are apart of Pete Waterman's model railway company, just trying to organise prices this week and hope to send the waxes to them.

Once I get a better range, I will then send samples to the magazines. I have been holding off until the range is a little more complete.

Onwards and Upwards :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on February 25, 2014, 08:52:24 PM
One (other) question...

Has anyone got as far as point motors for the Finetrax points? I am wary of Seep motors - especially with CDU - as they throw the points with some force and run the risk of breaking any soldering. Whilst Cobalt or Tortoise motors are much slower action, the apparently do carry some force, so could have the same effect.

At least two of the points will be on an embankment, so manual switching may be a challenge - and I am really aiming to have a control panel similar to Kanjiyama..

(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd417/Claude_Dreyfus/Controlpanel.jpg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 25, 2014, 09:58:06 PM
Hi Claude,

Have you looked into servo control? I agree that seep motored would be too harsh...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on February 25, 2014, 10:17:15 PM
Not until now... A quick look around has come across these guys.

http://www.heathcote-electronics.co.uk/servo.html (http://www.heathcote-electronics.co.uk/servo.html)

Worth further investigations.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Bealman on February 26, 2014, 05:18:57 AM
I note that Peco, of all people, have just launched a servo system!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HowardWatkins on February 26, 2014, 08:58:18 AM
Not until now... A quick look around has come across these guys.

[url]http://www.heathcote-electronics.co.uk/servo.html[/url] ([url]http://www.heathcote-electronics.co.uk/servo.html[/url])

Worth further investigations.

As a member of the MERG committee I'm biased, but you should also take a look at the MERG system which is what I am going to use. For a list of kits (only available to members) see
http://www.merg.org.uk/kits.php (http://www.merg.org.uk/kits.php)
We have servo drivers (kit 75, can drive 4 servos) and laser cut servo mounts (kit 671). 
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

We also have a nice piece of PC based software to set the servos.
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
The thing I like about servos is that you can start with them in mid-position, then adjust the two end points by the software until the switch blades just touch the stock rails. There is no need for fine mechanical tuning. You can also change the speed of operation.

Howard.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Caz on February 26, 2014, 09:02:20 AM
Now that looks really interesting, thanks for posting Howard, I feel a new membership coming on.   :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on February 26, 2014, 09:04:07 AM
I'm using servos with fiNetrax and it works very well - see about 1/2 way down page 5 of this thread for photos:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72424-bath-spa-high-tech-modelling-bringing-1947-into-the-21st-century-3d-printed-scenery-cnc-milled-track-laser-cut-baseboards-and-computer-control/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72424-bath-spa-high-tech-modelling-bringing-1947-into-the-21st-century-3d-printed-scenery-cnc-milled-track-laser-cut-baseboards-and-computer-control/)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on February 26, 2014, 09:19:27 AM
Sorry to slightly side track for a moment but can servos be used to simulate signal arms bouncing?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on February 26, 2014, 02:38:27 PM
Sorry to slightly side track for a moment but can servos be used to simulate signal arms bouncing?

Yes, and you can get a version of the software (Sema4) for the MERG controller that will do just that.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on April 08, 2014, 12:37:31 PM
Hi Guys,

A5 turnout kit now available on the website :) Also, a matching A Planing Switch Blade Filing Jig is available for this turnout.

(http://cdn3.volusion.com/ocfrs.jetwt/v/vspfiles/photos/finetrax-turnout-A5-2T.jpg?1396931676)
(http://cdn3.volusion.com/ocfrs.jetwt/v/vspfiles/photos/finetrax-turnout-A5-3T.jpg?1396931676)
(http://cdn3.volusion.com/ocfrs.jetwt/v/vspfiles/photos/finetrax-turnout-A5-4T.jpg?1396931676)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on April 10, 2014, 02:07:00 PM
Hi Guys,

There is a quick paragraph and some photos on page 22 of this months N Gauge Journal (2/14).

A full review will soon appear in the NGJ and also in Model Rail :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Caz on April 10, 2014, 03:19:52 PM
Well done Wayne, about time too, it deserves the recognition, just wish I hadn't finished laying all my track when you announced your track as it looks superb.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on May 06, 2014, 11:15:54 AM
First Look review in June Model Rail! :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Caz on May 06, 2014, 02:56:57 PM
Don't hold us in suspense Wayne, what was the verdict, hopefully very positive as it looks cracking track, just wish I hadn't just completed my layout using Peco code 55 although the thoughts of building 64 points, a diamond, 2 scissors and a double slip would be a bit of a challenge.   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on May 06, 2014, 03:45:46 PM
Hehe, yeah it's pretty good. They say that they will be showing a step by step build in the July issue :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: davidjhope on July 06, 2014, 06:32:36 PM
Thinking of a small box file layout with just two points.
Very tempted to try this out. I need something to get me back modelling.
Model Rail's two page spread this month was very good.
Well done Wayne
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on July 15, 2014, 12:51:19 PM
A friend sent me a sample of plain track and I found it very easy to assemble. I think it looks fabulous. I shall be selling a pile of PECO to fund this new addiction.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on July 16, 2014, 06:19:09 AM
Hi , Welcome to the finer scale future !
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: chalky64 on July 21, 2014, 11:09:53 AM
I first discovered this system in March 2013 and quickly purchased 5 meters of plain track. The quality is superb, and the improvement over code 55 really is incredible - it's pretty hard to determine Easitrac from fiNetrax when the two are next to each other.

The only thing holding me back from buying any kits is the fact that my planned layout requires a "Y" and a curved turnout - neither of which are currently available in the range. Ignoring the "Y" for the moment - can anyone who has built a fiNetrax turnout advise me as to how feasible it would be to 'doctor' the base so that it can be made as a [semi] curved point (I realise the crossing will need to be straight due to the cast frog)?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on July 21, 2014, 11:17:41 AM
Sorry I can't help you but I'm sure somebody will be along.

Regarding the next track kit I wondered what folks thought would be the next most important/useful item. My thinking is a single slip since this would enable a lot of Midland formations to be modelled, as well as all sorts of formations built by other companies. There is a strong showing of LMS locos in the Farish N gauge range but without the single slip Midland track formations are hard/impossible to replicate since they were so fond of trailing single slips as the access goods yards.

Then in the same vein I'd say the three way point.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on September 15, 2014, 01:09:23 PM
Hello

I was talking to a new N Gauge convert on the NGS mini stand at Swindon on Sunday and demonstrated how easy FiNtrax assembly is.

He went off with some sleepers and rail with the intent of building his new railway with it :)

No, not just the piece I gave him!

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 29, 2014, 01:24:32 PM
Hi Guys,

C10 turnout & 1in8 diamond crossing kits should be out by the end of the week. Currently working on a 1in6 single slip kit!

I was wondering, some have asked about flat bottom rail and concrete sleepers/turnout kits. It would be hard to fund another £5000 of tooling, but had the idea of possibly using 'Kickstarter' as a means of funding the tooling. I am not sure if this is a good idea or not. I would ask for donations in exchange for a %age discount on the website or something - the more donation the more %age discount they get.

I wanted to know if you guys thought that was a good idea, and what the demand for flat bottom rail, with concrete sleepers and turnouts would be?

Thanks,
Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karhedron on September 29, 2014, 01:27:56 PM
Hi Wayne,

It might be a useful way to go. One thing to check though is the T&Cs of Kickstarter and how they related to intangible rewards such as a future discount.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on September 29, 2014, 01:54:57 PM
Hello Wayne

This is just what my planned layout requires :)

I'd been planning on using 2mmSA concrete track and scratch-build points with N Gauge clearances...

The layout is on hold due to current lack of space, so I am happy to wait for you to Kickstarter/design/manufacture.

I'd prefer the Kickstarter to fund actual products rather than just tooling.

Maybe something like
Pledge level 1 = x yards of track
Pledge level 2 = y yards of track and 1 point/crossing
Pledge level 3 = z yards of track and 2 points/crossings
etc.

Once  funding is reached the backers can then decide on exact details of points/crossings.

Are there any fiNetrax layouts that are nearly ready for exhibiting?

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on September 29, 2014, 03:15:05 PM
Great news on the single slip. For me the flat bottom rail isn't something I need but appreciate that others might. With the Kickstarter it might be better to offer actual products than a % discount.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on September 29, 2014, 05:27:23 PM
Yes I would welcome a kickstarter for concrete sleepers and flat bottomed rail as I'm sure many other diesel and electric modellers will.
Like Michael I agree a product is a better reward than discount.
I would suggest that it will be worth keeping an eye on the Pendo kickstarter and I'm sure Ben A will be very interested in your proposal too. He would be great to get on board I would have thought.
Just one question, do you really need to fund it to the same extent as the original investment, or can you use elements of the original project in order to keep your costs down? Apologies if that is a naive view.

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on September 29, 2014, 09:46:15 PM
Kickstarter doesn't allow you to offer direct financial rewards so discounts are out.

I've just designed some S7 concrete sleepers for 3D printing masters and casting, but I'm not sure they would work when scaled down.  I use FB concrete Easitrac and I don't see that there will be enough demand to duplicate them. 

What would be absolutely fantastic is concrete FB points which are very different in appearance.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 30, 2014, 07:36:18 AM
Thanks for your replies, guys!

It looks like offering product would be the way to go, then. Nice to see your project on KS, Matthew. I saw it in the NGJ but didn't realise it was you or a kick starter project until I read on here. The only fiNetrax layouts that I am currently aware of are still being built.

There are some design obstacles to tackle first to see if it is even possible. I am trying to source light grey styrene HIPS sheet for milling concrete turnout bases. Also, I am not 100% sure yet if the turnout chairs would be strong enough, as they are smaller than the bullhead chairs...

Yes, it would need the 2 tools being made, one for the plain line bases and one for the turnout chairs.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on September 30, 2014, 08:08:04 AM

Hi Wayne,

Good luck with this - I think the visual improvement of concrete sleeper turnouts, over existing products, will be even more pronounced than your existing bullhead track.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Pelhama on September 30, 2014, 08:33:25 AM
Hi Wayne,

I had been planning to get in touch with you along these lines; I was going to ask about the possibility of producing the jigs and common crossings for flat bottom rail. I have used the filing jig for flat bottom rail, but it's obviously only possible in one plane, the rail not being reversible. I think if you could supply the jigs, crossings and tie bar components for flat bottom that would be a big help towards an improved standard for "modern" track.

I was also going to contact you as I have built a turnout kit on a  slight curve by cutting away the base moulding (apart from a centre spine) from the non-critical areas, i.e. not around the common crossing. I'll get some photos when I have time.

Cheers,

Mark
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 01, 2014, 08:45:17 AM
Hi Guys,

Thanks again for your support.

Yeah, filing jigs will be another head scratcher from a milling point of view...lots of design areas to consider :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 03, 2014, 03:12:04 PM
Hi Guys,

I have just received some sample HIPS styrene sheet in grey to check if the colour is suitable to represent concrete timbers for the turnout bases.

The grey is darker than the molded concrete sleepers used on Peco flexi or concrete plain line bases produced by the 2mm scale association.

My question is, would this matter much to people so long as I was to match the grey shade when I get the plain line bases molded? What I mean by this is, would a darker grey matter so long as the turnouts and plain line matched?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on October 08, 2014, 02:46:16 PM
My question is, would this matter much to people so long as I was to match the grey shade when I get the plain line bases molded? What I mean by this is, would a darker grey matter so long as the turnouts and plain line matched?
I would be happy as long as the turnouts and plain line matched.

The sleepers can be painted and weathered.

I'm wondering if a layout built with fiNetrax would be suitable for inclusion in Model Railway Journal?

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on October 08, 2014, 03:21:55 PM
My question is, would this matter much to people so long as I was to match the grey shade when I get the plain line bases molded? What I mean by this is, would a darker grey matter so long as the turnouts and plain line matched?

I don't think it is an issue provided the "darker grey" isn't errrr, well too dark.  The problem is not so much that the greys don't necessarily match but to make sure that the grey is not so dark that it is hard to weather without re-painting a light grey first.

As I said, personally I would not bother moulding plain line - it seems an unnecessary extra cost for you.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on October 08, 2014, 04:14:00 PM

Hi Wayne,

It does make sense for all your track components to match each other, so if you are doing concrete plain track then the sleepers there should match the sleepers on the points.

However, as mike says the issue really is how dark is the grey - most things generally get lighter with age so if your base is darker than brand new concrete sleepers then  it's too dark to use without painting.

Can you post a photo?

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 09, 2014, 01:02:47 PM
Thanks Guys,

I would describe it as 50% mid grey, I believe.

Maybe I will mill a sample and post it against the 2FS concrete base.

I may have found some light grey ABS sheet which might work...i'll look into it.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 09, 2014, 01:30:54 PM
Below is a photo I've taken of 2 options, HIPS 'Grey' and also HIPS 'Silver Pearl' which is lighter but has a texture pattern. The texture is only visible, the surface is smooth to the touch, not bumpy.

Would this texture be good or bad? Which would you choose?

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 20, 2014, 02:33:45 PM
Hi Guys,

C10 Turnout Kit & C Planing Filing Jig now available!

(http://www.britishfinescale.com/v/vspfiles/photos/finetrax-turnout-C10-2T.jpg)
(http://www.britishfinescale.com/v/vspfiles/photos/finetrax-turnout-C10-3T.jpg)
(http://www.britishfinescale.com/v/vspfiles/photos/finetrax-turnout-C10-4T.jpg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on October 20, 2014, 08:35:53 PM
Looking good..

On the concrete track (catching up) my thoughts would be

- for a lot of the period that concrete track was used point bearers were still timber (and for some of the time often bullhead rail was used).

- the modern image concrete sleeper trackwork is very very different to the "classic" types, the prefab ones even more so. Are you thinking the "current" concrete pointwork or older types ?

- there are lots of different types of concrete sleepers, and most of them don't give you much room to hold the rail in (the 2mmSA ones are quite fragile)

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 24, 2014, 09:22:53 AM
Thanks for your reply,

Unfortunately, it would only be a generic representation of concrete sleepers & flatbottom rail chairs (plates). The selling point is the fact they that are flat bottom rail turnout kits...either concrete (grey) or wooden (black) timber bases.

The chair plates that hold the flat bottom rail would be similar to the 2SA concrete track bases, and you are right they are much smaller than the bullhead rail chairs. I will need to see if they would be strong enough as the turnout chairs would be moulded in styrene, whereas the plain line bases are acetal which is stronger...

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: belstone on November 12, 2014, 11:44:51 AM
Is a 1:6 double slip in the pipeline?  I'm planning my next layout, trying to compress a very long station into an 8 foot length, and I'll need two double slips to make it fit.  No hurry, won't be starting the build for a while, but would be nice to know if a double slip is on the way. Meanwhile I'll order a point kit and some other bits to see how I get on with it.

Richard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Sipat on November 12, 2014, 12:15:24 PM
I have been mulling over finetrax for some time, in using it for my soon to be build Melton Mowbray exhibition layout.
Pros:
How it looks (simply hoy it looks!)
Cons
Need FB track (major no go if not available, will resort to code 55 peco if not)
will need to build 7 plain turnouts, a single slip and a 3 way point. (not so daunted by the turnouts but the slip and 3 way bring me out in a sweat)
Cost (not so worried about it but it will be considerably more expensive. this will be outweighted by how it looks)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on January 02, 2015, 07:27:10 PM
Some time has passed now since Wayne released his track.  Does anyone have photos of the finished result after ballasting?  I'm particularly interested in how the area around the cast frog looks when fully 'bedded in'.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Damian on January 15, 2015, 04:50:08 PM
I have been mulling over finetrax for some time, in using it for my soon to be build Melton Mowbray exhibition layout.
Pros:
How it looks (simply hoy it looks!)
Cons
Need FB track (major no go if not available, will resort to code 55 peco if not)
will need to build 7 plain turnouts, a single slip and a 3 way point. (not so daunted by the turnouts but the slip and 3 way bring me out in a sweat)
Cost (not so worried about it but it will be considerably more expensive. this will be outweighted by how it looks)

I am in the same boat as you, and I will need a *lot* of track. I am about 3 months into the 2 month job of converting my loft into a train room but when its done I will have about 4m by 7.5m. I would love to do all of it in lovely code 40. I could do 2mm society easitrac but looking at this thread I was hoping there would be a grey sleepered turnout option. If not it might be a case of airbrushing a lot of copper clad sleepers and cracking the soldering iron out.....
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 17, 2015, 04:27:43 PM
Hi Guys,

I have been thinking over the last week or so about providing finetrax kits with pre filed switch blades, already soldered to the chair plates. This would elimate the need for the filing and assembly jigs, and mean that the only soldering that is needed is soldering electrical feeds to the rails!

I had the idea of trying out my CNC mill to mill the planing on the blades - it work very well! I never did try it before as I thought the rail was just too fragile, but it works!

I need to make up a proper jig for my mill and do some more testing, but I was wondering how many of you guys would purchase a kit knowing this would be predone, where you may previously not have purchased due to the need to file and solder the blades?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Damian on March 17, 2015, 04:41:22 PM
Filing the rails (at least for easitrac) is somewhat tedious so getting them done ready is attractive
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thebrighton on March 17, 2015, 06:54:54 PM
I'd certainly be prepared to pay a bit more to have this pre done as it is the hardest/most tedious bit of the whole kit and I'm sure puts people off.
Gareth
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on March 17, 2015, 07:16:22 PM

Hi Wayne,

If you can do this then I see no reason not to offer a version of the kits which have the point blades prepared in this way.

Subsequent sales will soon tell you whether it's worth persevering.

Personally I think it's a great idea - especially as it gives you a distinct advantage over other self-build systems.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Roy L S on March 17, 2015, 07:21:48 PM
Filing the blades and soldering that assembly up put me off I have to admit and to have all that done would definitely make them a more attractive prospect.

Roy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: PLD on March 17, 2015, 07:35:00 PM
I need to make up a proper jig for my mill and do some more testing, but I was wondering how many of you guys would purchase a kit knowing this would be predone, where you may previously not have purchased due to the need to file and solder the blades?
Before I had tried assembling a point, I would have said yes - I'd prefer the blades pre-formed, however I was pleasantly surprised how quick and easy it was (in fact how well designed the whole kit is for that matter). Iím comfortable doing the blades myself but I think you are right that others will be less so and the option of pre-formed blades will gain a wider audience.

If the two options were available, it would be the price differential that would probably define which Iíd go for in future orders - less than £2-3 per point extra, Iíd probably go for convenience and small time saving; any more than that and Iíd probably still do them myselfÖ
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 18, 2015, 08:40:06 AM
Thanks for your input, Guys.

I would hold the price of the kits and still include the blades pre done :) Some more testing with jigs today and I should have a better idea of feasibility.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: nabber on March 18, 2015, 09:38:04 AM
Hi Wayne,

I didn't think the filing and soldering was too difficult - the jigs are well designed and make it about as easy as it can be.
But providing the blades pre-done will greatly reduce the cost and complexity for someone to just build one turnout to try it out - which should surely help sales.
It also saves a lot of cost if you want a mix of A/B/C planings - each jig is a similar cost to one turnout.

Neil
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: chalky64 on March 21, 2015, 01:37:52 PM
I would hold the price of the kits and still include the blades pre done :)
Several guaranteed purchases from me if that's the case...  :claphappy:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: thebrighton on March 21, 2015, 03:47:03 PM
The same price? Very welcome but I would have thought people would have been prepared to pay a little more but good on you. Any chance of making some pre done blades available as I've still some to do and it's the one bit I hate (probably as I'm impatient and it takes time)?
Gareth
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 23, 2015, 03:55:18 PM
Hi Guys,

I've been making up the jig fixtures for my CNC mill today, things are looking pretty good and I'm getting a nice clean & consistant finish on the milling/planing of the blades.

I am milling both side of the rail, one side the entire height of the rail that sits against the stock rail, the other side tapering only the top 2/3rd of the rail, leaving the foot intact. This has added considerable strength to the blade!

So the workflow goes... mill the main planing - take out and solder the chair plate and pin - back into the jig to mill the other side which also mills of any solder that would otherwise foul the wheel flanges. A few steps but I think this will give consistant results.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on April 18, 2015, 08:04:28 PM
Hi , Good to see work carries on , on my second batch of 5 for Warley club layout, and done the trap point idea with half a base works well.
I hope slip makes progress and  am sure the idea of milled and baseplated blade will help sales. Just trying to get club to agree for finetrak  on it new exhibition layout based on S&C.
Robert   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on June 01, 2015, 07:37:22 AM
Well 5 more points and another trap well on the way - I will try to put up pictures later.

Just need to add bonding and cosmetic chairs to cast frog to finish.

Easy to work system so if interested have a go, happy to be PM` ed with questions about system build

Robert   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 03, 2015, 09:26:54 AM
Hi Guys,

I am still currently testing the idea, but it's looking probable that the fiNetrax kits will do away with the sprue's of chairs, and instead the turnout bases come with all chairs already installed into the bases! I will be having the bases produced with the chairs installed as one solid part/piece.

This will dramatically reduce the amount of work and skill needed to complete a turnout, just slide in the rail! I would include the bases as standard with no change in price.

Regarding the pre milled and soldered blades, I can still do this but due to it being time consuming I would need to charge extra for this - probably £6.50 a set of blades when purchased with a kit.

Hopefully this will make the kits more attractive :)

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on August 03, 2015, 10:35:50 AM
Sounds great Wayne, and certainly more appealing to someone like me who just doesn't have much free time at the moment. A real timesaver. :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Caz on August 03, 2015, 03:27:19 PM


Regarding the pre milled and soldered blades, I can still do this but due to it being time consuming I would need to charge extra for this - probably £6.50 a set of blades when purchased with a kit.

Hopefully this will make the kits more attractive :)

Oh dear, it is getting closer and closer to ripping up Claywell and re-doing with your track as it does look superb.  What's the chances of a scissors crossing and a double slip being available eventually?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Damian on August 03, 2015, 03:30:27 PM
Its about now I am not regretting getting on with sorting my loft out :-) Even though I will have to use 9.42mm Easitrac and soldering point work on my concrete sleepered mainline the track will look epic.

Will my ballasting do it justice? I hope so but I fear not  ???
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Roy L S on August 03, 2015, 06:51:01 PM
Hi Guys,

I am still currently testing the idea, but it's looking probable that the fiNetrax kits will do away with the sprue's of chairs, and instead the turnout bases come with all chairs already installed into the bases! I will be having the bases produced with the chairs installed as one solid part/piece.

This will dramatically reduce the amount of work and skill needed to complete a turnout, just slide in the rail! I would include the bases as standard with no change in price.

Regarding the pre milled and soldered blades, I can still do this but due to it being time consuming I would need to charge extra for this - probably £6.50 a set of blades when purchased with a kit.

Hopefully this will make the kits more attractive :)

Hi Wayne

Definitely. I have one of your turnout kits and have to say it is of exceptional quality and the instructions are very clear.

As I have mentioned previously, the timy chairs and preparing/soldering the blades (which I have had a generous offer of help with when I get to it) does daunt me somewhat so the mods to the base and pre-prepared switch-rails would take all the anxiety out of making one and I look forward to having a go (My next small layout will employ FineTrax for sure especially if these kits are imminent  - do you have a timescale?).

 I don't mind in the least paying another £6 odd if I know the risk of me messing it up is all but removed.

Keep up the excellent work.

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on September 17, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Hello Wayne

Have you done any more R&D with the concrete sleepered track?

Thanks
Michael
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 20, 2015, 10:33:30 AM
Hi Michael,

A little, with the new idea of providing track bases with chairs pre installed this is actually a different manufacturing process which does give better scope for concrete sleepers and even flat bottom rail.

I am aiming to get the wooden sleepers and bullhead rail done first, and then I will start looking into concrete/flat bottom.

Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on September 20, 2015, 10:45:07 AM
Thanks Wayne

Do you have an estimated timescale?

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JasonBz on September 20, 2015, 10:46:39 AM
Moulded In chairs on the pointwork sounds like a good idea :)

I must admit my eyeballs struggle with the size of the things - It does take a good day and a steady hand to make some progress.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 22, 2015, 09:05:20 AM
Hi Colin,

I am not sure what the advantage would be? Looking at the new easitrac kits, their milled crossing looks rather 'heavy' to my eye, and surely doesn't have the web of the wing rails represented as does my cast crossings?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 06, 2015, 02:18:31 PM
Hiya,

A small update regarding the new style of kits.

I have finally gone against bases with all chairs pre installed. There are a couple of reasons for this. The tests for the new bases are being 3D printed (currently they are milled styrene bases) with chairs installed but I feel that the material (a type of acrylic) is too brittle and chairs can break too easily while trying to thread in the rail. It also gets very hard to thread the rail the further you go and the more chairs are holding the rail.

So what I have come up with, and what's now going ahead, is a bit of a hybrid between what I was planning and what the kits currently are. I will still 3D print the bases, and these bases will include some chairs:- The Slide chairs that need the inner chairs cutting off, the half chairs around the cast frog, and also the chairs close to the cast frog that are very hard to cut down and fit...these will be preinstalled like this:

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

The rest of the chairs will fitting the usual way, cutting off the sprue and installing into the holes. However, I will be changing the chairs from ABS to Acetal (same as the plain line moulding) because it is a stronger material. The chairs will now be fixed down using superglue introduced from the bottom onto the pin. The result will be a much stronger turnout assembly.

I will be including pre milled switch blades in each kit within the price. I am also doing away with the switch blade chair plates and jigs - the modeler/builder will now solder the switch blades directly to the tie bar in situ, this make the build far easier and simpler. The 3d printed acrylic material that makes the base is very resistant to heat from a soldering iron, indeed I can hold the soldering iron tip on it and it doesn't not melt or deform.

So to summarize, the kits will soon have the following features:

No more filing or assembly jigs needed
pre milled switch blades
some chairs preinstalled
stronger acetal chairs
easier soldering of switch blades directly to tie bar
Price Drop of from £18.50 to £16.50

I am hoping to have the new kits ready, along with new website, for the last week of this month to tie in with the mailing of the N Gauge Journal, which should have the above in the news section, and also a full page finetrax advertisement :)

I am also looking into the possibility of manufacturing rail joiners/fish plates for the code 40 bullhead rail.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: alibuchan on November 06, 2015, 02:51:25 PM
Will orders that have been made recently have the new style or the old? As I ordered a selection of kits etc last weekend and would have held off otherwise.

Thanks

Alistair
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 06, 2015, 03:14:26 PM
Hi Alistair,

Please email me directly via sales@britishfinescale.com

I can hold the order until the new kits are ready, if you wish...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 06, 2015, 05:31:09 PM
Hello Wayne

As you are now 3D printing the bases, how much effort would it take to produce concrete sleepered points with flat bottomed rail?

Thanks
Michael
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on November 06, 2015, 05:35:36 PM
Mmmmm - proper FB concrete sleepered points would be lovely! They are much longer than and a different design to BH though.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on November 06, 2015, 09:17:22 PM

Hi Wayne,

It's great to see that you are still developing and refining your range.

Having built your existing point kits, I think the changes you are proposing will make a good product even better.

I would second the call for concrete sleepered FB rail and pointwork, but I understand you can only do what you can do.

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Kris on November 08, 2015, 08:08:32 AM
As you're now doing the printed bases does that mean custom curved turnouts could become a possibility in the future?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 08, 2015, 08:33:39 AM
Thanks Guys,

Flat bottom concrete turnouts is a possibility, I will look into this once the bullhead kits are sorted.

Kris, each kit still needs individually designing in CAD. It maybe possible to 'bend' a turnout in the CAD software to an angle defined by the customer, but I will need to check that this does not deform so much so that the critical dimensions through the crossing/frog are disturbed.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 08, 2015, 09:54:51 AM
Hiya,

I have done a quick test of flexing a base in CAD. I ended the curving just before the frog crossing area as not to disturb the critical dimenions...

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Seems it's possible...it does warp/taper the sleepers slightly depending on the amount of curving.

The good thing is I can enter the exact radius or degrees to curve by, if I put a 'custom curved turnout' page to the website, the customer could enter the radius required when ordering. I could then email them a printable template to print off and check to confirm before it is 3D printed.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Kris on November 08, 2015, 10:45:51 AM
That looks good. Something that could be very handy at some point in the future, unfortunately not the near future though  :(
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on November 08, 2015, 10:51:46 AM

Hi Wayne,

Wow, curved turnouts to a particular radius will be an incredible step forward, since it allows truly realistic  track formations - since that is what they do on the prototype too.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 13, 2015, 03:19:21 PM
Hi Guys,

Very short post but I just wanted to confirm the 3 following announcements :)

ē The new style 'V2' kits will be available on our new website week commencing 23/11/15
ē New bases have very good 'flexibility' inherent in the material, indeed they can be flexed into curved turnouts of tight radii
ē Flat bottom rail concrete sleeper plain line and turnout kits very likely for 2016 :)

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ian Morton on November 13, 2015, 03:33:11 PM
Wow!

Our cup runneth over!  :beers:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 20, 2015, 09:42:49 PM
Hi Guys,

The website is currently closed undergoing a little make-over, new site and kits will be back up next week!

Along with designing a new 1in7 & 1in9 turnout and a 1in8 diamond crossing kit (coming in the next few weeks, before xmas!), also on the drawing board are a 1in6 single slip, 1in6 Y point and also...

A nice 1in6 Scissor Crossover, see CAD progress below:
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

The complex railwork in the middle will be completely made from 8x castings (4x usual 1in6 frogs, 2x 'K crossings' and 2x 1in3 frogs). All 8 castings will simply slot into place very accurately in the pre-made holes in the turnout base. And because of the new 3D printed bases, all the chairs around these castings will be pre-installed into the base :)

I beleive the kit price for the Scissor Crossover would be £59.

Should have the 1in6 single slip, 1in6 Y point and Scissor Crossover done in Jan/Feb :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: alibuchan on November 20, 2015, 10:10:33 PM
WOW! That Scissor looks nice. Shame I can't modify my layout to fit one in :(
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on November 21, 2015, 04:45:33 AM
one word - amazing !
looking forward to single slip

Thanks Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Caz on November 21, 2015, 03:40:09 PM
Oh dear, it is getting closer and closer to ripping up Claywell and starting again with this code 40 track as it does look gorgeous.  Seems you are doing almost everything now, just a double slip to come.

Just out of interest, how does the geometry and sizes compare with Peco code 55 turnouts etc.?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: alibuchan on November 21, 2015, 03:42:39 PM
The B6 is approximately a medium radius point if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 25, 2015, 03:04:27 PM
Hi Guys,

I am still working on it, but the new website is up, and the new kits can now be ordered:

www.britishfinescale.com (http://www.britishfinescale.com)

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on December 19, 2015, 05:23:17 PM
That's great news. Adding a three way point to the range would enable a lot of Midland formations to be modelled now the single slip has been added.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 19, 2016, 03:02:37 PM
Hi Guys,

I am thinking of doing a Kick starter for concrete sleeper flat bottom code 40 plain line flexi track...

The goal would be £3000 and the rewards would be 1 metre lengths of plain line flexi track @ £5 per metre. That's 600 metres worth of flexi needed in pledges to make the project a go.

Also, there is a 4 month mininmum wait time in getting tooling made, so if the kick starter goal was reached, it would be 4 months from the end of the (successful) kick starter to fulfilling backer rewards...

I would like to hear peoples opinions on the likelihood of successfully reaching the £3000 goal? I can really start seeing the need/requests for flat bottom kits growing fast...

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on January 19, 2016, 03:46:26 PM
Hi Wayne
10m for me as well.

worth a punt in any langauge !!!

Robert 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on January 19, 2016, 03:48:22 PM
YES YES YES!!!!!  :D

I've just put down 6 lengths of peco code 55, but wouldn't happily pull it for this in the future, and also for the rest of the layout that I'd planned.

Would there be scope for sleepers to incorporate insulators for a 3rd rail? :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on January 19, 2016, 04:05:09 PM
Good luck, I'm sure you'll get there.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on January 19, 2016, 04:42:59 PM
I would say yes, particularly now you're doing scissor crossings too, but in reality I'm not going to replace all of my code 55. Next time though...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Pelhama on January 19, 2016, 05:10:10 PM
10 for me please Wayne.

Good luck with this!

Cheers,

Mark
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Branchie on January 19, 2016, 09:05:06 PM
Sounds good. Count me in for a few metres!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on January 19, 2016, 10:59:36 PM

Hi Wayne,

Great news - I will certainly support this if you go ahead with a Kickstarter or other crowd-funded methodology.

cheers

Ben
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on January 20, 2016, 05:48:02 PM
This is fantastic news.
Definitely count me in for ten metres too.
And definitely worth looking at least doing one (well two, a fet and right) point in concrete sleepers. no one else does concrete sleeper points in N do they?

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on January 20, 2016, 10:41:29 PM
Hi All,
Just to report postie has delivered 3 of the Mk2 turnout kits with 3D print base with some chairs pre fixed  and machine blades - look very good just need time for world to stop so I can build them. Thanks Wayne a good product improvement. 

Cheers
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: alibuchan on January 20, 2016, 10:55:12 PM
I know that feeling Robert! I've had a box of track and 9 points to make up since before Christmas, just sat there because I just just don't have the time.

I have asked for an extra 4 hours each day but haven't gotten a definitive answer that I was happy with.

Alistair
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: woodbury22uk on January 21, 2016, 06:19:53 AM
I have a suburban modern layout I am planning, so a few metres would be needed.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 03, 2016, 09:08:25 PM
Hi Guys,

Many thanks for your input regarding the flat bottom rail/concrete sleeper venture :)

After much thought and for various reasons, I have decided that I will fund the tooling for this myself, and not use a fundraising platform such as Kick starter. I am already in talks with the toolmaker so watch this space.

Sorry for not making much progress on new kits last month. I had a little hiccup with the strength of the 3D printed bases, mainly because I had 'hollowed out' the sleepers/timbers in order to save material and cost (3D printed parts are priced by volume). This did unfortunately result is the bases being a little weak and some broke on some of my customers.

So most of last month was consumed on designing the bases to make them strong. Only today have I received the new updated bases and they are very good. The sleepers are no longer hollow and are far stronger, probably about 3 times as strong. This does cost me a little more but I feel good now I have a nice solution.

Now this is solved, I can get back and do the single slip and scissor crossover I promised.... :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on February 04, 2016, 07:03:45 AM
Thanks for the update, Wayne.
I would've pledged for the flat bottom rail.

If you plan turnouts with flat bottom rail, would they be the same geometry as the bullhead ones or be of a modern type? I'd prefer the latter.
 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ten0G on February 04, 2016, 09:19:01 AM
Now this is solved, I can get back and do the single slip and scissor crossover I promised.... :)

Good news, but any chance of a double slip as well, please? 

It would help to compress the pointwork in the goods yards. 

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Anglian on February 04, 2016, 09:41:39 AM
Hopefully the DS and the three way will come at some stage in the future. The latter combined with the SS will enable typical Midland formations to be created and with the strong showing of Midland steam locomotives in N gauge I feel both would be really valuable additions.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 04, 2016, 09:48:02 AM
A double slip would follow, although I am stuck on the design of the tie bar for the 4 switch blades at each end. Its much more complication as both pairs of blades must line up to one another, and the two blades in the middle are very close to each other and difficult to solder in position...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on February 04, 2016, 12:52:03 PM
Wayne,
Good to read of updates , DS will always be a pain! What happens if tiebars are in successive sleeper gaps and not the same one. It might give a bit of a complication for linking up or if on differing servos/ motors/ wire in tube might make it easier for setting up wiring?

more strength to your elbow and good on you if you can do the flatbottom miracle, turnouts as well would be heaven sent for many current scene modelers and if you do it you know Peco will follow!!!! may be?
Robert     
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 04, 2016, 04:20:25 PM

If you plan turnouts with flat bottom rail, would they be the same geometry as the bullhead ones or be of a modern type? I'd prefer the latter.
 

F20 FB turnout kit, anyone? Hahah, it would be 383mm long! :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on February 04, 2016, 06:24:52 PM
F20 FB turnout kit, anyone? Hahah, it would be 383mm long! :D

But that is precisely the sort of thing it is needed! The reality is that FB point work is completely different to BH - please, please don't do some compromised FB pointwork based on BH geometry!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on February 04, 2016, 07:36:31 PM
F20 FB turnout kit, anyone? Hahah, it would be 383mm long! :D

We understand us. Exactly, that type of thing lengthwise, plz.   :beers:

Of course, I could try and build with PCB sleepers and solder iron myself, but it would be a compromise to something you would make.

And really, 383mm is not that long!
I could easily build a crossover on a 900mm long module with space at the ends.

According to the following document we are talking about RT60 / NR60 designs, though F20 is mentioned as a BS113A turnout. http://www.ihsti.com/NoRCS/(15pu2kmrgjfayk55acezfnna)/docs/BRAFAS01/DEPT/ELEC%20PUB/NETWORK_RAIL/NR_COMPLETED/DOCS/L2TRK2049.PDF (http://www.ihsti.com/NoRCS/(15pu2kmrgjfayk55acezfnna)/docs/BRAFAS01/DEPT/ELEC%20PUB/NETWORK_RAIL/NR_COMPLETED/DOCS/L2TRK2049.PDF)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 05, 2016, 09:00:39 AM
Thanks for the info guys,

My workflow goes Templot>Solidworks>3D Printing...So templot is really used to set timbering positions. What is different with the RT60 / NR60 designs in terms of timbering? Getting much information on it, or trying to decipher that document is above my head, I'm afraid.

What do scratch builders currently do when making these type of turnouts? Surely only templot anyway?

In all honestly, I can only do what I can do :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on February 05, 2016, 09:42:34 AM

Hi Wayne,

I am no expert on track, but it might be worth contacting Martin Wynne (who is the guy behind templot) to who presumably is, and he may be able to give you guidance on modern point practices, or point you in the direction of someone who knows.


cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on February 05, 2016, 11:12:53 AM
Colin Craig does templates for FB pointwork which aren't expensive and might be worth having as reference material, though I am sure Templot will get you some of the way (I'm not sure how good it is for FB).

I'm not sure that I have ever seen anyone scratchbuild FB points in N - which is a big pity as in N at least we are more likely to have the space needed for FB points! Some of them are huge! To give you a few examples:

BV9.25 crossing from the end of one switch rail to the end of the other measures out at 325mm (so approx half that for the single point) - restricted to 15 or 20 mph!
CV13 speed 31 mph toe 175mm
FV28 speed 54 mph toe 370mm
HV45.75 speed 94mph toe 611mm

There are some longer points eg at Weaver Jn there is a point that is over 1m in N with a total crossing length in the region of 9-10m!

Clearly some are never going to be practical, but it would be great to have some FB points available.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 05, 2016, 04:28:15 PM
I really appreciate the info, guys!

I think at this stage, a proposed range of 'flatbottom turnouts' would unfortunately be a 'crude' representation at best, consisting of:

ē Timber positions the same as the Bullhead bases, but longer bases are no problem.
ē Bases offered in either light grey to represent concrete or black to represent wood (like the current bases).
ē Injection molded chairs for flat bottom rail, light grey, much like the clips on 2FS plain line moldings.
ē Cast frog crossings representing flat bottom rail, with 'planned/milled' flared ends, not bent like BH.

This would really be what I am offering as a solution, and not as 'purist' as RT60 / NR60 designs, at least not in N gauge. I am sure the above must at least be better than current offerings, even if scratch built?

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on February 05, 2016, 08:52:52 PM
Sorry Wayne but to me that seems fairly pointless (no pun intended). I can't stress enough that the geometry of FB is significantly different to BH. Replicating BH points with grey sleepers and a bit of FB rail will look wrong as they shouldn't look the same.

I suspect the use of chairs rather than pandrol clips is a necessary compromise but I don't see why you need to compromise on the geometry.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 05, 2016, 09:57:54 PM
Sorry Wayne but...

No need to be sorry, it is but one opinion :)

I suspect the use of chairs rather than pandrol clips is a necessary compromise but I don't see why you need to compromise on the geometry.

In terms of design & manufacturing, the reason is I don't have A) the resources/information to produce the geometry in question and B) the time to do so. I explained that my workflow is Templot>Solidworks CAD>Shapeways...

OK, please show me the exact geometry template for a said turnout - where to start? Ah...

Is it a case that my proposed flat bottom kits are pointless to everyone, or just pointless to yourself?

Sorry, I'm just a little annoyed and feel that I should maybe just put my efforts into other things...Maybe Bullhead kits for 4mm...

Over £6000 investment is a quite high for what really is a 'for the love of it project', you know? You think I'm gaining from this financially? NO!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on February 05, 2016, 10:22:42 PM

Hi Wayne,

I understand your frustration, as I said I don't know enough about track to offer any kind of meaningful help with regard to the prototype.

However, having built your existing points - and found them very good - what are the stages you'd need to go through for Flat Bottom?

If we assume you need to tool new chairs, then that is a lot of cash, I agree.

However where I am a little confused is around the geometry.

The points I built had a base that is milled out, with pre-cut holes for the chair mounting points.

My understanding was that one advantage of your approach is that because the chairs are common to all, producing different turnouts simply requires you to produce the appropriate base, and then ensure enough chairs are supplied (since longer points require more chairs.)

So if you used a Colin Craig template, as suggested, or maybe got information from Martin Wynne, would it not be possible to programme the milled base (in grey!) to be correct for FB geometry? 

Is this where the problem lies?  Or am I missing something?

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on February 06, 2016, 03:45:15 AM
In terms of design & manufacturing, the reason is I don't have A) the resources/information to produce the geometry in question and B) the time to do so. I explained that my workflow is Templot>Solidworks CAD>Shapeways...

OK, please show me the exact geometry template for a said turnout - where to start? Ah...

Is it a case that my proposed flat bottom kits are pointless to everyone, or just pointless to yourself?

Sorry, I'm just a little annoyed and feel that I should maybe just put my efforts into other things...Maybe Bullhead kits for 4mm...

Over £6000 investment is a quite high for what really is a 'for the love of it project', you know? You think I'm gaining from this financially? NO!

You asked for opinions, would you have preferred I just said what you wanted to hear? That doesn't help you! It just seemed to me that what you were proposing was such a wasted opportunity and wouldn't really give an end result that was significantly different from painting your existing BH points grey!

I gave you information where you can get accurate information on FB templates from (and as I freely admitted I don't know what Templot spits out in terms of FB - Ben's idea of asking Martin Wynne is sensible).

You have to do what works for you in terms of money and time - we all understand that (but please don't be under the impression that we are ungrateful (or that the 4mm market will be any less demanding!)).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on February 06, 2016, 01:24:41 PM
This discussion made me searching dem internet and installing wine and other f Ö ahem, fine, yes that's the word, fine stuff to have a look at Templot.

So, what I learned from the internet is, that BS-113A exists in two versions 'inclined' and 'vertical'.

FB-109, BS-110A and BS-113A inclined designs were very similar to the earlier BH designs and use the same crossing angles. These would be applicable for 1950's onwards. Today only found on secondary lines, yards, sidings, etc.

Vertical BS-113A design were introduced from 1970's using pandrol clips. Used for renewals they took some time to become widespread.

The RT60 design superseded the BS-113A vertical and reverted mistakes.

Colin Craig has written a three part article about modern track:
http://mmrs.co.uk/technical-articles/modern-permanent-way/ (http://mmrs.co.uk/technical-articles/modern-permanent-way/)
http://mmrs.co.uk/technical-articles/modern-permanent-way-2/ (http://mmrs.co.uk/technical-articles/modern-permanent-way-2/)
http://mmrs.co.uk/technical-articles/modern-permanent-way-3/ (http://mmrs.co.uk/technical-articles/modern-permanent-way-3/)

Templot has the following templates built in:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_35120.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=35120)

These included templates appear to be of the older 'inclined' BS-113A design. On the templot forum, however, it is mentioned, that custom switches are possible. I got only so far to change the crossing angle but have no idea how to adjust wing rails and the like. I'm optimistic that someone with more experience with Templot could handle this.

From: http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=763&forum_id=1&zoom_highlight=rt60#p4422 (http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=763&forum_id=1&zoom_highlight=rt60#p4422)
Quote from: Martin Wynne
These need to be created as custom templates in Templot. For circular-curve turnouts the natural sizes are:

RT60-C switch with 1:8.25 CLM V-crossing
RT60-D switch with 1:9.5 CLM V-crossing
RT60-E switch with 1:12.5 CLM V-crossing
RT60-F switch with 1:15.75 CLM V-crossing
RT60-SG switch with 1:20.25 CLM V-crossing
RT60-G switch with 1:23.5 CLM V-crossing
RT60-H switch with 1:31.25 CLM V-crossing
RT60-J switch with 1:44.5 CLM V-crossing

(Transitioned turnouts are longer.)


Sources:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35360 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35360)
http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=763&forum_id=1&zoom_highlight=rt60 (http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=763&forum_id=1&zoom_highlight=rt60)

To summaries my limited findings from today, I think that "FB curved flexible switches" from the included Templot templates could be viable for 1950-1980ish.

Onwards from the 80's, looking at photos I've got the impression that the cast crossing vee, and the tips and fixtures of the guard and wing rails have bigger influence in making turnouts appearing more 'modern' than the actual curvature through the turnout. If (custom) points with these features could be made, I'd be in.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Roy L S on February 06, 2016, 03:14:17 PM
I have experimented with Wayne's plain track on a couple of small test-pieces. There is simply no comparison between it and Peco Code 55 looks wise, none at all and it is surprisingly robust.

I can only anticipate that FB Code 40 with Pandrol clips represented on the "chairs" would represent an equally significant step-change in terms of appearance.

Where I have struggled a bit is with my first point kit (an original). Once you have cracked the use of a knife tip (mentioned in the instructions) to insert chairs in the base that part is absolutely no problem. I got as far as inserting the stock-rails, frog and check-rails, all soldered up with dropper wires no problem at all.

The big challenge with the kit is the switch - blades/tie-bar assembly. I was generously offered help on this Forum soldering these up, but decided I wanted to do this myself to see if I could. I did succeed but it was a real test, and I had to re-solder as it broke after some unintended excessive twisting.  I soldered dropper wires to the bottom of these rails as per the instructions, but sadly too close to the convergence and they touch so need relocating further out. I was left wondering if I remove these whether they are really needed or if rail contact would be sufficient - thoughts?? There are currently seven dropper wires on this one point and it is all becoming a tad unwieldy!

I may still succeed to make a working point first go, and there is nothing wrong with the quality of the kit at all it is first class. Sure, it is not a five minute "shake the box" kit, it does require time, patience and some modelling skill. My only suggestion would be to provide the option of the switch blade assembly ready finished (with short droppers fixed) even if it added £5 to the cost as based on my experience this is the one area where the biggest risk of failure to get a working point exists and may stop people coming back for more.

I hope this appraisal is received constructively as I really do think Wayne should be congratulated for his enterprise in providing us, the modeller, with such fabulous looking track and I'm sure the FB will be equally good.

Roy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on February 06, 2016, 07:17:27 PM
Ive been considering whether or not we would have built Northallerton using finescale FB concrete sleeper track had it been available four years ago. Not a simple answer I know, as Northallerton is massively compromised. Had we had unlimited funds time and space then we would have made a full scale model. We have none of these things so we compromised. Inevitably we used Peco trackwork.
Having said that, using google earth's measuring tool, so not acurate, some crossings (two points) on the mainline look like they would be about 600mm, others that they would be well over a metre. But some points look like they would be less than a foot long.
So given that time funds and space haven't changed, we would still have to compromise. We wouldnt have the space for the longer pointwork, but something that looked a bit better would have been welcome. Even just concrete sleepers!
So I dont think I would be looking for the range of pointwork that Mike seems to be suggesting, but something that looks a lot more like modern pointwork than Peco points would be welcome. And if I ever did want such acuracy, I coul alway model in two mil finescale.

cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on February 06, 2016, 08:35:13 PM
I understand that 600mm+ long crossovers are not for everyone, and shortened versions of modern 'looking' turnouts, with lengths probably comparable to medium and long turnouts, would be nice to have, too.

It just happens that I could make use of turnouts with a crossing angle of 1:12.5 up to 1:17.5 something, that look at the crossing and check rails like this: http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=763&forum_id=1&zoom_highlight=rt60#p4486 (http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=763&forum_id=1&zoom_highlight=rt60#p4486) .

I really hope Wayne doesn't find this discussion discouraging.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 07, 2016, 09:26:55 AM
Apologies to Mike and all for my somewhat aggravated reply. Had one too many beers Friday night ;)

Thanks for all the info. Ben you are right about the bases, the chairs are common so I could work on the suggested bases afterwards.

What we would need to look into and design is the look of these chairs (or should we call them clips :) ). They would need to be a generic representation as I obviously can only invest in one tool for these. I know there are so many variations for different locations and era's.

Then there is the design of the cast crossings, these obviously look a lot different to bullhead crossings.

So to recap: To begin with, the geometry (timber and rail positions) would be the same as the current bullhead kits, this means I can transfer all work I've done straight to the flat bottom kits (this takes a lot of my time to design from scratch!). They would have new chairs/clips for flat bottom rail and also cast crossings designed to represent modern type crossings.

Surely the above is already a better solution than this:
(http://www.track-shack.com/acatalog/Peco-SL-E1095-00-H0-Concrete-Sleeper-Medium-Radius-Right-Hand-Turnout681.jpg)

And surely compared to traditional hand built PCB soldered flat bottom turnouts, which I would imagine most start from a Templot template anyway, would be a better looking solution?

After this, I can look into the more specific formations as requested, as Ben Says, this should only be the bases and probably different planning/milling angles on the switch blades....

I hope that is a good compromise and plan for getting some tangible product.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on February 07, 2016, 11:31:11 AM
To my mind this seems like an excellent way forward. Exactly what we need as far as I'm concerned.
Yes, realistic long points would also be great but then space becomes a really important issue.
Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MacRat on February 07, 2016, 04:25:59 PM
Sounds sensible to me.
The following picture should highlight that the differences between a BH B8 (top) and a FB 1:8 turnout (middle) are very subtle but the crossing and check rails make a big difference to me as the BH B8 with modified guard rails (bottom) shows.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_35175.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=35175)

Though, I would still need a 1:12.5 version,Ö..
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: FourWheelCoach on February 08, 2016, 09:48:09 PM
Can I be forgiven for asking a question that has almost certainly been asked before? Fifty-six pages is a lot to hunt through!

Can the rails for the flexitrack be supplied in longer lengths than 500mm? Going by my efforts with Code 55 Peco, laying tight curves is problematic and I think doing it in relatively short segments is harder than with longer lengths.

I'm pretty much decided on Finetrax unless I go to 2mmFS which I can see little justification for now. In the meantime I'm just persisting in laying a test track with all the peco stuff I have. It's useful in showing up problems and developing skills prior to making a scenic layout.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on February 09, 2016, 12:01:04 AM
Hi ,
Two thoughts for consideration, does 9.42 2mmfs act as gauge widening for 9mm on our tighter curves and is it worth it ?

secondly in discussion about painting  clean the sleeper bases to remove the oilly finish I use a gif and slosh  a bowl full of bases and rinse and allow to dry before adding rails, it then looks matt. I just wondered if others had found a problem ?

A flat bottom turnout would look good on the NR point carrying wagons!   

Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Topcat on February 21, 2016, 01:55:45 PM
A am planning small diorama and was going to use a M of fine scale code 40, but postage costs have just put paid to that. Quote was £6.50 for £5 track. i agree if I was buying more track this would be fine but this compares to code 55 available lots of places for £3 postage £2 and that's a M long. If postage was realistic then I would have no trouble with it.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Topcat on March 03, 2016, 05:30:31 PM
Got me one M. Made, it is superb locks like the real thing next to a piece of code 80. And oh dear my track is set track.

The M is for a diarama. Perhaps a future layout with this track...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EtchedPixels on March 03, 2016, 05:39:40 PM
Hi ,
Two thoughts for consideration, does 9.42 2mmfs act as gauge widening for 9mm on our tighter curves and is it worth it ?

For most stock I've seen you don't need the widening anyway but N stock runs on 9.42mm track although the problem I hit using it was that platform clearances are bigger (as vehicles can angle across the track more) and power pickup is a little poorer for I suspect similar reasons.

Fleischmann sharp curves gauge widen to 9.3mm
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 16, 2016, 06:43:34 PM
Hi Guys,

As some of you have maybe noticed, the britishfinescale.com website is currently offline. The reason for this is that the V2 kits, mainly the 3D printed bases, have been breaking on customers. Seems the material is just too brittle :(

I have taken the website offline until I sort this all out. Its been a bit of a headache, but it looks like I am going to have to resort back to the original type of kit - milled styrene bases.

Also, I have had issues trying to mill the switch blades, and its VERY time consuming. I am also going to have to revert to supplying filing jigs for the kits, unfortunately.

Very sorry for this, I was so excited about the recent changes to the kits, but it has not worked out in the end :( Its very sad and a little embarrassing, but I guess I can't get it right every time...

On the plus side, this does mean that I can turn my attention back to new formations and kits. I promised a single slip, Y point and scissor crossover, but this all got put on hold while I was trying to work out the above issues.

I also have milled a test for standard crossovers, first will be a B8 crossover (2 turnouts milled as one solid base). This sets the track centres (23mm centre to centre) and also the shared timbers are all pre done :)

Onwards and upwards...

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JasonBz on March 16, 2016, 10:18:27 PM
No worries Wayne - Thanks for the update :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: FourWheelCoach on March 17, 2016, 08:48:25 PM
Would the printed bases work if bonded to a thin sheet of solid material?

If so you may recoup some money selling them as seconds and they would still be usable.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on March 17, 2016, 08:51:40 PM
Don't lose heart, and keep up the good work Wayne. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 22, 2016, 09:58:30 AM
Thanks Guys,

The website is now back online for taking orders...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on March 22, 2016, 12:32:47 PM
Thanks for update.

At Telford I superglued the 3D base to a shaped stryene backer- pre cutout tiebar and solder point under crossing nose casting.

Certainly the crossover is a good idea.

The process is still forward so keep heart !
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: cookiescrumble on March 22, 2016, 03:28:50 PM
What to order a kit to see how I get in with building them before ordering all the ones I need. Which size would be nearest equivalent to a peco medium code 55 point?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: PLD on March 22, 2016, 06:09:16 PM
What to order a kit to see how I get in with building them before ordering all the ones I need. Which size would be nearest equivalent to a peco medium code 55 point?
A Peco code 55 Small radius is near as makes no difference a finetrax A5
A Peco code 55 Medium radius is the same length as a finetrax B6, but the Peco has a sharper departure angle than the finetrax (if there was such a thing as a B5 that would probably match the Code 55 Medium...)
A Peco code 55 long radius is closest to a finetrax B8
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: cookiescrumble on March 22, 2016, 06:17:55 PM
What to order a kit to see how I get in with building them before ordering all the ones I need. Which size would be nearest equivalent to a peco medium code 55 point?
A Peco code 55 Small radius is near as makes no difference a finetrax A5
A Peco code 55 Medium radius is the same length as a finetrax B6, but the Peco has a sharper departure angle than the finetrax (if there was such a thing as a B5 that would probably match the Code 55 Medium...)
A Peco code 55 long radius is closest to a finetrax B8

Thanks for that, B6 it is then  :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: FourWheelCoach on March 28, 2016, 12:01:18 PM
Are there any pictures of what you actually get in the turnout kits or any construction videos available?

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: woodbury22uk on March 28, 2016, 03:29:30 PM
Are there any pictures of what you actually get in the turnout kits or any construction videos available?


The photos and package content decription cover what is in it and what they look like. The downloadable instructions cover how the bits go together.

http://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-turnout-b6.htm (http://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-turnout-b6.htm)

A list of the extra tools and adhesives etc. appears under the description.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: FourWheelCoach on March 28, 2016, 03:53:56 PM
Are there any pictures of what you actually get in the turnout kits or any construction videos available?


The photos and package content decription cover what is in it and what they look like. The downloadable instructions cover how the bits go together.

[url]http://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-turnout-b6.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-turnout-b6.htm[/url])

A list of the extra tools and adhesives etc. appears under the description.


Those photos show a completed one aside from a sprue of chairs. No indication of whether the check rails come preformed and so on. I was very much inclined towards them when the Mk2 version was announced but now it's been withdrawn I'm wondering how much of a fiddle they are going to be. The switch blades seem to be a right faff going by the instructions. 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JasonBz on March 28, 2016, 04:17:08 PM
They will be fiddly because of the size of the parts, but there is nothing intrinsically difficult about them other than that.
Ill make one up when I havent a  lunch time beer ;)
I would say there is more work in making a Peco code 55 point look and work right than there is in one of these kits.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: woodbury22uk on March 28, 2016, 04:17:52 PM
The assembly instructions say that you need to bend the check rails.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Kris on March 28, 2016, 04:28:43 PM
The assembly instructions say that you need to bend the check rails.

That is very easy to do. A pair of pilers is all you need for the task.

I've built several of these points including a diamond crossing, give yourself 2-3 hours and be patient. It is possible to put a slight curve on them which leads to far more flowing track.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: belstone on April 01, 2016, 11:07:20 AM
Now I have actually built one of these (B6 left hand), a few things I found:

1.  Read the instructions carefully at least twice.  I didn't, and had positioned quite a few chairs before I read the instructions again and realised they were handed.

2. I found the best way to position the chairs was to slide a length of rail through each one while it was still on the sprue, cut it with a scalpel and then attach it to the track base, then withdraw the rail.  That way there is no danger of getting the chairs the wrong way round, provided you are concentrating.  Don't try to build one of these kits while watching TV, it will all go horribly wrong.

3. The point filing / chairplate soldering jig is awesome.  Don't try to do without it.

4. The length of the switch rails is absolutely critical.  The soldered chairplate means that there is no room for adjustment, and you are trying to end up with a gap the thickness of a fag paper between the switch rail and frog.  The jig is very good, but you are still best leaving the switch rails over length, then carefully cutting them down, a tiny bit at a time, once the chairplates and tiebar are installed.  I reckon this is the trickiest bit of the entire job.

5. Solder flux - do as the man says, and use it.  I have been using Carrs Red Label just because I have some, and it works well.

6. I soldered the rails to the frog at the "V" as you then only need one wire rather than three.  I suspect this is not recommended due to the risk of distorting the chairs with heat and ending up with an uneven frog crossing, but I seem to have got away with it on this one. Beginner's luck? I might really push my luck and try bonding the stock rails to the switch rails with brass wire, as this will stop the switch rails sliding fractionally in the chairs and possibly shorting against the frog.

7. There are only just enough chairs (especially check rail chairs) so don't lose any.

8. I filed a small notch on the inside of the stock rails where they meet the tips of the blades, just to ensure they sit flush.  On the prototype I think the rails would have been "joggled" at this point but that would make it tricky to slide the stock rails into the chairs.

9. I still haven't worked out how I am going to motorise the thing.  I doubt it will stand up to having the blades slammed against the stock rails with a conventional point motor, at least not for long. I'm wondering whether to extend the two brass wires that attach the chairplates to the tiebar downwards through the baseboard, with the point motor actuating pin sitting between them.  This would give spring loaded switch blades and cushion the shock from the motor.  Since I have to redo at least one of the switch rails anyway (I cut it too short, see point 4 above) I might try this with the turnout temporarily fixed to a piece of board and see if it works. I would probably have to use piano wire instead of brass, but I have plenty of that.

10. Rail joiners are another problem I haven't yet got my head around.  I'm not sure the track base is robust enough to leave the rail ends unsupported at joins, but worried that if I just solder brass wire joiners to the outside of the rails, the track will buckle due to expansion on a hot day. You can buy code 40 joiners for flatbottom rail (in the USA anyway) but I can't find any for bullhead. They would have to be very fine and made to terrifyingly tight tolerances to grip the rail without catching on the wheel flanges. I might end up gluing Microstrip either side of each rail join and see if that works - not especially strong, but more "give" than a soldered join. Alternatively I could use soldered PCB sleepers either side of each join, but that wouldn't look especially pretty, and I would have to keep rail lengths short to avoid the expansion / buckling problem.  I would be very interested to hear how other people have got round this problem.

Overall I would say it is a very nicely designed, well-engineered product and a lot of thought has gone into it.  I have ordered another four kits.

Richard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: FourWheelCoach on April 01, 2016, 01:49:47 PM
I've not seen one of these yet Richard but had wondered about using long lengths of rail so that the join to the next length was away from the point. This would allow a rail joint to be hidden with something like a foot crossing or similar and would get away from the "model railway" effect of track-joint-points-joint-track etc. It would be more integral, like the real thing.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: belstone on April 01, 2016, 03:39:23 PM
I've not seen one of these yet Richard but had wondered about using long lengths of rail so that the join to the next length was away from the point. This would allow a rail joint to be hidden with something like a foot crossing or similar and would get away from the "model railway" effect of track-joint-points-joint-track etc. It would be more integral, like the real thing.

Interesting thought - the rail comes in half metre lengths and the fewer joints you have the better, in my experience.  It might take more forward planning than I am capable of, but I like the idea a lot.  Your idea would also allow joints to be staggered, which would help with the rail alignment.

It occurs to me that my idea of extending the chairplate pins will make it impossible to fit the switch rails to the tiebar.  Plan B - attach a brass block to the underside of the tiebar, drill two small holes in it and insert springy wires into those. The brass block would have to go in after the tiebar has been positioned between the rails and track base, so soldering is probably out.  Sounds like a job for Araldite Man. At least it gets rid of that big hole in the middle of the tiebar.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: FourWheelCoach on April 01, 2016, 05:57:16 PM
What about making a scale point rod linkage and having a servo on the axis of the crank nearest the toes? This would give a fairly direct drive to the switch blades and the other end of the linkage could drive dummy point rodding back towards the signal box.

Hmmm...... working point rodding....

Maybe I'm getting carried away....
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on April 01, 2016, 08:24:28 PM
For joining sections try using a pair of the brass cast sleeper units - glue track down and then slit to insulate, fill gap with filler to hide it. You can solder a dropper to sleeper as well.

I too have soldered rail to frog successfully - heat and be quick ! Also bonded the stock rail to switch rail - cut base to make for good access and I used 0.33 brass wire and bent to form dropper to go through baseboard.

I use chair plate/pin and sliding sleeper as the tiebar but 2mm soc advocate various under board units but this does mean some time planning the whole affair. Latest 2mm magazine suggests another but "above" board solution with solder plates and scrap etch and a slot in baseboard.

All in all a very good set of products with a growing range
Robert     
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on April 01, 2016, 09:34:29 PM
What about making a scale point rod linkage and having a servo on the axis of the crank nearest the toes?
I did think about how I could try scale stretcher bars, and while you can get small enough diameter carbon fiber rod which would be stiff enough to function as a stretcher, I haven't figured out a way to attach it to the points reliably.

Once you've got that far then yeah, I don't see why you couldn't then build functional rodding; give enough patience!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: belstone on April 02, 2016, 11:17:15 AM
I spent yesterday evening fiddling with point mechanisms, still haven't broken the Finetrax turnout despite some fairly rough treatment, they are stronger than they look. I have concluded that for underboard operation the operating pin needs to be at 90 degrees to the tiebar and rigid (like on a point motor) otherwise it tries to twist the tiebar and the whole thing binds up.

So my next attempt will be a Seep point motor with adjustable end stops.  The plan is to bend a strip of thick brass strip into a U shape to fit over the ends of the solenoid, drill and tap the ends to take fine threaded screws which bear on the ends of the sliding armature, then use locking nuts to hold the screws once they are set in the right place. The idea is that the screws will limit the travel so that the point blades just make contact with the stock rails at each end of the motor throw.  Nice and simple, adjustable to compensate for wear in the tiebar hole, and easily swapped from one motor to another.  Of course the built in frog switch will no longer work, but I don't use those for frog switching anyway as I have had no end of trouble with them.  Self-latching double coil relays are much better.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jrb on April 02, 2016, 11:26:00 AM
I spent yesterday evening fiddling with point mechanisms, still haven't broken the Finetrax turnout despite some fairly rough treatment, they are stronger than they look. I have concluded that for underboard operation the operating pin needs to be at 90 degrees to the tiebar and rigid (like on a point motor) otherwise it tries to twist the tiebar and the whole thing binds up.

So my next attempt will be a Seep point motor with adjustable end stops.  The plan is to bend a strip of thick brass strip into a U shape to fit over the ends of the solenoid, drill and tap the ends to take fine threaded screws which bear on the ends of the sliding armature, then use locking nuts to hold the screws once they are set in the right place. The idea is that the screws will limit the travel so that the point blades just make contact with the stock rails at each end of the motor throw.  Nice and simple, adjustable to compensate for wear in the tiebar hole, and easily swapped from one motor to another.  Of course the built in frog switch will no longer work, but I don't use those for frog switching anyway as I have had no end of trouble with them.  Self-latching double coil relays are much better.

You might also consider using servos if you haven't already. That's what I'm using, controlled by a MegaPoints Controller (though there are other, cheaper ways of controlling them). You get nice, slow movement, and adjustable end stops, with no stress transmitted to the point like with a 'traditional' point motor. Frog switching can be achieved by using a microswitch attached to the servo. Cost is minimal - servos are £1.50-£2.00 each; a microswitch adds ~20p. There's quite a few threads on here regarding them if you want to know more.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: belstone on April 02, 2016, 02:52:05 PM
I had thought about servos, but I like the simplicity of solenoids and the way you can run the motor and switching relay off a single switch (using self-latching double coil relays). But if my latest idea doesn't work, servos might be the way to go.

Richard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Nigel Cliffe on April 04, 2016, 02:08:19 PM

You might also consider using servos if you haven't already. That's what I'm using, controlled by a MegaPoints Controller (though there are other, cheaper ways of controlling them). You get nice, slow movement, and adjustable end stops, with no stress transmitted to the point like with a 'traditional' point motor.

"Adjustable end stops" applies up to a point....   I would install servos with a mechanical linkage which can withstand full range of servo movement.   So, when something causes the servo to twitch over its full range of movement, the mechanical linkage takes up the slack, rather than ripping your turnouts from the baseboard. 

There are numerous designs around for suitable mechanical arrangements, springy wire, omega loops, spring loops, and others.   But, I think it is important to include something in any connection. 

Then, its fine to set the end-stops in the servo controller board to get the fine control.  But only when you know that a gremlin won't destroy your track. 

Yes, I do use servo motors to move turnouts, in fine-scale track (2mm and P4). 

- Nigel
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on April 05, 2016, 11:37:26 AM
I would recommend servos, but slow action motors like tortoise or Cobalt will work.

I am just working on building up a standard B8 crossover kit (in the minimum spare time I have!) to take photos, I will then release it on the website.

I have also confirmed tooling pricing for progressive die stamping of fish plates for code 40 bullhead rail! Final dimensions and tolerances need to be confirmed but its possible that I might have fish plates available in a few months...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Izzy on April 05, 2016, 02:19:48 PM

I would personally advise against the use of solenoids, having tried both Peco and Seep versions with a variety of different tie-bar designs to try and prevent the 'thwack' of the solenoids breaking the linkage joints somewhere. Nothing worked reliably and I eventually found that either hand operation via wire/rods or using less harsh slow action motors, Cobalts and servos etc, were needed becaue with hand built points you also need some method of holding the blades firmly against the stock rail which solenoids can't generally provide unless they have excess friction, which then leads to even harsher action to overcome it.

The likes of Tortoise and Cobalt are fine where there is the space, but in our smaller scale this isn't always available and the small 7.5g/9g servos have a distinct advantage here. If you don't want to go down the servo control route for any reason then take a look at the thread here of a 'stripped' servo using a small switch as the limit stops with a sprung wire acutator. Cleverest design I have seen to date.

Izzy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Jeff McGhie on April 11, 2016, 03:38:19 PM
Wayne,

Have you had any further thoughts about flat bottom points?

Edit: Also where have the templates for the turnouts gone? Can see them on the new site.

Thanks
Jeff.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on April 16, 2016, 09:58:20 AM
Hi Jeff,

I am still working on the flat bottom points, but its harder than first thought. Sourcing sheet material of the correct colour and thickness seems impossible, but I am working on a solution.

Besides, there is more work to be done on the bullhead kits. A B8 crossover is done, I just need to finish building it up to take photo's on the website. Then I will get the single slip made and also a 'Y' point. I am also working on getting fish plate joiners manufactured.

On the website, each turnout page has a tab 'Download Instructions & Printable Template' above the description, there are also links at the very bottom of the page (included instructions).
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on May 03, 2016, 02:11:55 PM
Hi Guys,

Trying to find a light grey 1mm HIPS sheet has been impossible. It's only available in medium grey.

Do you guys believe that the grey shown on the top right would be OK for use for 'concrete' timber bases?
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Branchie on May 03, 2016, 09:53:53 PM
Looks alright to me Wayne ....
It'd need to bad weathered anyway 😀
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on May 04, 2016, 10:36:00 AM
Looks fine to me Wayne.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Rabs on May 04, 2016, 04:23:20 PM
My opinion (based on no knowledge at all!) is that anyone who cares enough about the appearance of their track to use finetrax is unlikely not to paint it.  In which case, as long as the underlying colour is close it doesn't matter much.  If people are fine with black as a base colour for dark brown timer sleepers then I can't imagine that a slightly different shade of grey will matter.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on May 09, 2016, 10:56:26 AM
OK, I have found a source of lighter grey HIPS sheet, its a much better and lighter shade. I have milled a sample base and it looks very nice. I am currently waiting for confirmation from the supplier to future proof availability of this material.

Once this is confirmed, I will finalise design of the flat bottom chairs/base plate and schedule tooling for these and flat bottom concrete plain line bases.

I am also in discussions with my machine shop regarding design/tolerances of stamped fish plates/rail joiners for bullhead rail.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on May 09, 2016, 03:29:24 PM
Hi Wayne,
Good news then, I look forward to arrival and I hope fishplates work out as well.

Robert   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: scoobyra on September 12, 2016, 11:32:11 AM
Any update on this?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RailGooner on October 17, 2016, 11:07:35 PM
.. Once this is confirmed, I will finalise design of the flat bottom chairs/base plate and schedule tooling for these and flat bottom concrete plain line bases...

Any update on concrete sleepers please?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 16, 2016, 09:18:48 AM
Hi Guys,

Sorry for the late reply, I've been on Holiday.

No movement on the concrete sleepers/flatbottom rail, the issue has been finding the money for tooling. I must first invest in a stamping tool for making fishplates for the code 40 bullhead rail and complete some new kits for the range of bullhead rail - a single slip, Y points and standard crossovers. I think this will push the development of concrete sleepers into next year. Funding this stuff is not easy :)

I have finished the design of the cast K crossing for the single slip kit, so this is currently being made...

I am also talking to David Hoogvorst of AnyRail, we are working to add a fiNetraX library to his track planning software.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RailGooner on November 16, 2016, 10:40:28 AM
.. Sorry for the late reply, I've been on Holiday...

Thanks for the update Wayne and hope you enjoyed your holiday.

Having bought some of your flexi track to evaluate - and finding it aesthetically unrivalled - I was hoping to use fiNetrax throughout a modular layout that will exist only in my head for while yet. The idea is for a small rural station saved from Beeching as a preserved line running adjacent and connected to, a modern high speed mainline. So I'm looking forward to supporting your enterprise, and will meanwhile watch developments with keen interest.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 20, 2016, 09:35:55 AM
I do really want to get this done in the new year, but as I say I must prioritize as there are a few things that I have already promised and yet to release.

Good news, fiNetraX will soon be added to AnyRail software :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: R Marshall on November 20, 2016, 11:51:22 AM
Wayne,

Will the fishplates make an electrical connection, or will they be cosmetic?

I'm about to try using the 2mm Association brass sleepers (cut in two and gapped) to provide a point for soldering the droppers - this (soldering the rail to the chairs) is a soldering job at the edge of my capability, if not beyond!

Regards,

Roy Marshall
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on November 20, 2016, 01:31:28 PM
Hi ,
Good see progress and that concrete is not dead !
Cheers
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 20, 2016, 06:33:19 PM
A double slip will follow as it uses the same K casting as the single slip...

Fish plates will be similar to standard commercial offerings and as such be electrically conductive.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: nabber on November 23, 2016, 07:56:32 AM
Wayne,
Thanks for the update on the single slip - that's good news.
I've just ordered a pile of bits - that should help a little bit with funding new developments!
Regards,
Neil
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 24, 2016, 09:01:47 AM
Thanks Neil, I'll be getting that out to you, today!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on November 25, 2016, 01:46:07 PM
I've been waiting on the single slip, as I have a strange urge to build a small Midland station layout; and you can't have an MR station without a single slip! ;D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Nigel Cliffe on November 29, 2016, 07:48:56 AM
Wayne,

Will the fishplates make an electrical connection, or will they be cosmetic?

I'm about to try using the 2mm Association brass sleepers (cut in two and gapped) to provide a point for soldering the droppers - this (soldering the rail to the chairs) is a soldering job at the edge of my capability, if not beyond!

This is always going to be difficult to solder - the cast sleepers are a huge lump of brass (so a big heat sink).   If persisting with the method, I recommend that you tin (apply solder) to the brass sleepers away from the track so they have a clean fresh and very thin layer of solder.  Ideally do the same to the rail (very quick in-out with iron).  And then fix the two together with the iron applied to the cast brass part very near to the rail.
Tinning of the castings can be done with aggressive fluxes as the casting can be cleaned.  Subsequent work needs an easy-cleanup flux (or no flux).   
The whole job will be easier with lead-based solder (flows easier and works at lower temperatures) - I'd tin the cast brass with 188 degree solder, and then use 135 or 145 degree for the rail and final fixing.  This keeps temperature down whilst working.  Further temperature control can be helped with damp tissues on rail to disperse any heat from the rail. 

I think its far simpler to solder a bit of fine multi-stranded wire to the bottom of a rail.  Much less of a heat sink.  If you cut away a few sleepers there is more space for soldering.  The sleepers can be slid back into place afterwards (cut the chairs away on one side if necessary, and fragments of chair fixed back in place with solvent. 


- Nigel  (2mm modeller  ).
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: nabber on November 29, 2016, 12:25:19 PM
Hi Wayne,
do you have templates for the C9 and C10 turnouts? All the others are on your website, but the C10 template gives a page not found error, and there is no link for C9.
Regards,
Neil
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 29, 2016, 01:38:09 PM
Hi Neil,

Ah yes, still need to fix that. I have just emailed them to you :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: BlythStationLad on December 06, 2016, 07:17:38 PM
Personally I think soldering fishplates to rail (for whatever reason) is a bad idea. Effectively you will create a long metal strip: variances in room temperature will cause issues with expansion/contraction as the long metal strip will have nowhere to expand/contract.

What can happen on the real railway can also happen on our layouts, especially those subjected to the exhibition circuit. The real thing attempts to cure this (not always successfully) with expansion joints on long lengths. Fishplated rails deliberately have gaps in the rail ends to allow for lateral movement.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: littlegs on January 03, 2017, 06:39:50 PM
I agree with  Blythstationlad, it is always better to add power  feeds to the rails not use the rail joiners for power continuity and definitely not to solder them to the rails
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Sprintex on January 03, 2017, 06:53:03 PM
Personally I think soldering fishplates to rail (for whatever reason) is a bad idea. Effectively you will create a long metal strip: variances in room temperature will cause issues with expansion/contraction as the long metal strip will have nowhere to expand/contract.

What can happen on the real railway can also happen on our layouts, especially those subjected to the exhibition circuit. The real thing attempts to cure this (not always successfully) with expansion joints on long lengths. Fishplated rails deliberately have gaps in the rail ends to allow for lateral movement.

Not quite ;) Expansion of steel rails on the real railway yes, but problems with models railways are much more often due to expansion/contraction of the wooden baseboards they're fixed to rather than the rails. Nickel-silver rail has a very small coefficient of thermal expansion, whereas wood that's not properly sealed will dry out with high temperature and shrink, causing rail-buckling. Still need those expansion joints, but for a different reason :thumbsup:


Paul
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jrb on January 03, 2017, 10:49:41 PM
Not quite ;) Expansion of steel rails on the real railway yes, but problems with models railways are much more often due to expansion/contraction of the wooden baseboards they're fixed to rather than the rails. Nickel-silver rail has a very small coefficient of thermal expansion, whereas wood that's not properly sealed will dry out with high temperature and shrink, causing rail-buckling. Still need those expansion joints, but for a different reason :thumbsup:


Paul

Paul,

Respectfully, I think you're slightly confused. 'Wood' doesn't expand & contract with heat; it's changes in moisture that cause it, and the degree depends on what you mean by 'wood'; solid timber (such as pine/whitewood, which is the most common type likely to be used for baseboards in the UK) expands as the humidity increases, but only across the grain (width) NOT along the length.

Man-made boards such as ply and MDF are much more stable, although they do still swell & shrink a tiny amount. Even so, they won't change by much.

I'd wager that, in most situations where model railways exist (spare rooms, lofts, sheds, etc.) you'll get significantly larger changes in temperature over a year than you would changes in humidity.

Add to that the fact that, in the UK at least, you tend to get higher humidity with higher temperatures, and lower humidity with lower temperatures (because cold air can hold less moisture than warm air) and any expansion in timber would be moving in the same direction as the expansion in the rail rather than working against it anyway.

Apologies for taking this even further off topic... :-[
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Jeff McGhie on January 05, 2017, 08:31:04 PM
Santa brought me a turnout and a pile of plain line sleepers and rails to experiment with until the crossovers are available.

Hopefully be demonstrating building the turnout at Modelrail Scotland in Glasgow at the end of next month if anyone is passing.

Jeff.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on January 06, 2017, 08:01:20 AM
I'm just putting together my first Finetrax turnout. Any tips please beyond those in the instructions on how best to attach the power feeds? 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on January 06, 2017, 08:36:29 AM
Hi
It is worth considering using some of the brass cast sleeper units and soldering a wire to the sleeper and rail in the chair - use wet tissue as a heat sink.

I have however used 0.3 brass wire and sucessfully soldered links to bond, and retain switch rails , I have also soldered a dropper to the locating lug on the bottom of the crossing casting.  I also have soldered a bond to both the rails beyond the crossing. I have experimented with soldering these rails to the crossing casting - best done before assembly and then sliding chairs on to rails and fitting to base - worked for me.

To fit bonding I trim base by removing web a bit to allow iron tip easy access to back of rails.

I also solder a droppers to  the crossing end of stock rails - rather than toe end as this stop any problems with setting up the drive  system for the turnout.

I have now built 10 points for self and club and a trap point just for fun. Great system. In finessing system 2mmfs versions from association now have I believe a "rust" brown chair which is  a clever idea.
Have fun
Robert       
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on January 06, 2017, 10:25:09 AM
Thanks. The brass chairs you mention are those from the 2mm Association?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on January 06, 2017, 11:05:08 AM
 Hi ,
Yes but as they get cut for insulating compatible for fine N needs and pretty certain Wayne has them as well or his might be fine N gauge anyway.

Robert 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on January 13, 2017, 09:49:18 AM
The switch rails on my B7 turnout have been prepared and now need to be cut to precisely to length to fit between the frog and the stretcher leaving a gap equal to the thickness of two sheets of paper. Getting this degree of precision using trial and error looks like a tedious process requiring the rail to be inserted and removed repeatedly. Is there a better way please?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on January 17, 2017, 08:55:14 AM
Trial and error sufficed I'm glad to say.

I'm now preparing the switch rails and wondering how pointy they need to be. First attempt was filed down in the B jig to 0.26mm width at tip but I ended up breaking through the web at the very end. Second attempt at 0.32mm avoided that but is catching wheels slightly. I note that Easitrac turnout instructions unlike Finetrax call for a joggle or indent in the stock rail to accommodate the blade, so perhaps I should try that?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Izzy on January 17, 2017, 10:20:37 AM
Trial and error sufficed I'm glad to say.

I'm now preparing the switch rails and wondering how pointy they need to be. First attempt was filed down in the B jig to 0.26mm width at tip but I ended up breaking through the web at the very end. Second attempt at 0.32mm avoided that but is catching wheels slightly. I note that Easitrac turnout instructions unlike Finetrax call for a joggle or indent in the stock rail to accommodate the blade, so perhaps I should try that?


A joggle can tend to 'catch' wheel flanges when running through from the crossing end. Although I believe the GWR used these other companies didn't, and from what I have read these problems existed in real life prompting such arrangements to be used only where one direction running was involved, i.e. into the blades first.

0.26 is very thick, it should be down to a knife edge right at the tip, certainly at the top of the rail. You can always 'finish' the very top edge of the blade in situ with a fine needle file to achieve this when it is tight up against the stock rail.

To overcome breaking into the rail web the way is to 'bend' the end of the rail before you start filing. Just a few mm. Enough offset to match the depth of the web. Bend away from the side that will sit up against the stock rail. Then file the protrouding part back level. It should reach the web at the end. Now file the other side to a point so it sits up against the stock rail nicely and properly. You can make it as thin as you like at the very tip, but don't take the thinness back any distance otherwise the blade will have no strength at the tip. With A or B blades you are only talking of a total planning length of 11-15mm anyway.

Perhaps this shot will help explain what I mean.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/1607-170117101711.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=47460)

cheers

Izzy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on January 17, 2017, 11:01:01 AM
That's very useful. Thanks. I recall the Easitrac instructions suggest something similar.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: CF-FZG on January 22, 2017, 11:17:30 AM
Hi,

Possibly mentioned before in this thread, but site searches have returned a blank  :confused2:

Points are described using a letter and a number, the letter I understand is the diverging angle at the frog, but the number I'm not clear about, (my proposed era is 1960's and earlier using BH rail).

So my request for help,
1. what does the number signify?
2. how would I find out which points to use in a given situation?   e.g. crossover in a station, approaches to station etc.

Thanks,
Mark.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JasonBz on January 22, 2017, 12:27:43 PM
The letter is the length of the Switch Rails

The number is the diverging angle of the crossing, as a ratio

EG #6 diverges at 1 in 6
      #8 "             "  1 in 8

The higher the number the smoother the curve.


For typical model railway track a B6 or maybe B7 seems to be most common.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: sp1 on January 22, 2017, 02:29:01 PM
Trial and error sufficed I'm glad to say.

I'm now preparing the switch rails and wondering how pointy they need to be. First attempt was filed down in the B jig to 0.26mm width at tip but I ended up breaking through the web at the very end. Second attempt at 0.32mm avoided that but is catching wheels slightly. I note that Easitrac turnout instructions unlike Finetrax call for a joggle or indent in the stock rail to accommodate the blade, so perhaps I should try that?
What real railways use (except for the GWR, which used the 'joggle') was a 'set' - a short straight section in the otherwise curved rail to overcome this (you don't see full sized rail with dents filed in them!) - hard for me to explain, but easy to do. However, determining where to place this on a Finetrax turnout might be difficult, but if the dimensions are to a true B6/ B7 etc then a print from Templot will show you: Templot, to the beginner, is a very steep learning curve, but to make and print a turnout for just a B7, say, is easy- let me know if you would like to try this, or ask on the Templot forum
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on January 22, 2017, 09:36:32 PM
Thanks - perhaps you can elaborate as it's not obvious how a set would prevent the tip of the switch rail catching the wheel nor how one could introduce this feature into a Finetrax turnout with its fixed ie pegged chair geometry.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Izzy on February 02, 2017, 11:10:57 AM
Hi,

Possibly mentioned before in this thread, but site searches have returned a blank  :confused2:

Points are described using a letter and a number, the letter I understand is the diverging angle at the frog, but the number I'm not clear about, (my proposed era is 1960's and earlier using BH rail).

So my request for help,
1. what does the number signify?
2. how would I find out which points to use in a given situation?   e.g. crossover in a station, approaches to station etc.

Thanks,
Mark.

The letter isn't to do with the frog/crossing angle but the blades, the angle of the planing, which of course then determines the length of this. A is 1-24, B is 1-32, C is 1-40, D is 1-48, E is 1-64, F is 1-80. In the prototype the deflection determines the speed at which the point can be taken. In general A's are used in goods yards, B's in stations for things such as loco release's  -  both where only low speed is used, and C's and above elsewhere according to the needs.

The number is the frog/crossing angle eg, 1-5, 1-6, 1-7 etc. These are the normal whole figures but they can be any angle needed, 1-6.5, 1-5.25 and so forth for specialist/non standard trackwork such as might be found in station approaches. When high deflection blades are used on running lines in areas such as these because it's unavoidable then severe speed restrictions are imposed and accounts for why the approach to stations is often at a crawl compared to mainline running.

In model trackwork where everything is usually subject to less space it is A', B's, and C's that are normally used, the most commonly used combinations being A5/6's and B6/7/8's.

Hope this helps.

Izzy

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Izzy on February 02, 2017, 11:16:30 AM
Thanks - perhaps you can elaborate as it's not obvious how a set would prevent the tip of the switch rail catching the wheel nor how one could introduce this feature into a Finetrax turnout with its fixed ie pegged chair geometry.

I think what is being referred to is the set in the diverging stock rail to the same planing angle as the blades. AFAIK finetrax points like other templates from the 2mmSA or produced via Templot feature this as part of the standard construction configuration.

Izzy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Pete2210 on February 05, 2017, 08:04:13 PM
I'll be starting on a Finetrax LH B7 very soon and I've given thought to a joggle or not on the stock rails, well I've decided to make a filed inset into the Stock rail to allow the switches to "Bed" when lying against the appropriate  stock  rail, also to put a tiny curve onto the top of the switch rails to guard against a wheelset "picking" the points in the facing direction, which is a problem I had with Kato switches but not Atlas code 55 pointwork which has a inset to allow the switch to bed in properly.

I know that in building a set of points you should always put the stock rails in first, but I remember another post where it was advocated to fit the switches first, I'll think further about that one

Pete
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on February 05, 2017, 09:24:40 PM
The stock and switch rails are held quite firmly by the chairs without glue so they can be readily removed for fettling during construction. I suggest you first have a dry assembly, run a test then decide if your refinements are necessary.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Pete2210 on February 05, 2017, 09:44:41 PM
Thanks Longbow, as you're further down the construction road than I am I'll follow your advice

Pete
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Pete2210 on February 09, 2017, 10:56:55 PM
Changing my habits of a life time, I read Wayne's instructions for building his point kits and he does say to  install the switch rails after the crossing and before the stock rails.............when all else fails read the instructions :D

Pete
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Pete2210 on February 12, 2017, 09:25:07 PM

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5930-120217212439.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48556)


Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Pete2210 on February 12, 2017, 09:39:27 PM
I wasn't sure I'd selected the right settings for adding the picture of the Finetrax B7 point that I'd spent the last four days building so please forgive the two quick postings, I'd built pointwork in 7mm and 4mm scales but this was my first attempt in 2mm scale. I found it very enjoyable even when chairs flew off into that black hole called the carpet! I overcame that by using a small piece of code 40 rail inserted into the chair before cutting it off the sprue :).
There was ample rail included in the kit, as well as the various types of chairs needed to build the kit. The Switch Blade Filing and soldering jig was such a help even when I managed to break a 0.45mm drill in it whilst trying to open out the holes for the wire, I overcame it even though I couldn't get the remains of the drill out of the tufnol jig, that was my ham-fisted fault and a new jig will be ordered befor the next point is built.
I've only attached the wire to the crossing so far, but I've cut away two sections of the web for attaching power feeds to the switch and stock rails, so there it is one point built :)

Pete
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on February 13, 2017, 10:46:44 AM
Good job and glad you enjoyed it - I have done 10 or so now and all been trouble free - except when I failed to solder a wire correctly but spotted before moving on.

I used a half base as a catch point- built for fun.

Robert   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: craic on February 15, 2017, 08:02:12 AM
Hi gents,

Let me introduce myself. N beginner from moment I stopped HO gauge for space convenience at home.
Apologies for my bad english ;)

I was looking for fine tack in N gauge, and here below my concerns :

_ Peco code 55 : Looks fine, with a variety of turnouts but ... at all not so fine ...
_ Fast tracks : Really like it, but very expensive for just a 2 meters layout with few turnouts.
_ British Finescale : Here is my concerns :

Looks fine for me, even if not french aspect, could be raisonnable used on a french layout.
Turnout : Only one type, but ok for me, the hidden trzacks will be peco code 55.

My main question I am not able to find any answer for weeks is :

Is the rolling stock material from 2000's and after can be used without any problems on this track including turnouts ?
And obviously, if anyone tried with diffrents brands such as Mabar, Piko, Roco etc ... will be really useful.

In fact, I would like a fine track, avoiding remplacement of wheels.

Thanks in advance for your support, you will save my day :)

Cheers from France.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: woodbury22uk on February 15, 2017, 11:00:57 AM
If you want to use rolling stock from Piko, Mabar, Fleischmann, Roco, Arnold, Minitrix etc.you are going to need Peco Code 55. The flanges of NEM wheels are not compatible with fine scale track.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on February 15, 2017, 11:43:59 AM
Finetrax is designed to accommodate modern N Gauge stock and it uses the NEM standard of 7.4mm wheel back to back. It is not the same as 2mm Finescale.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on February 15, 2017, 11:55:56 AM
No, but many European manufacturers such as those mentioned use huge flanges still. I agree with Mike that fine scale track (not Finescale) is not suitable if you're using Piko, Arnold etc.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: craic on February 15, 2017, 12:31:01 PM
Thanks for these useful information.

So no way to use British finescale products with European rolling stock materials ... I am really disappointed  :(

Anyway, the last solution seems to be to make handlaying by myself, using code 40 ?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on February 15, 2017, 12:33:50 PM
I would be reluctant to use code 40 rail with any of those manufacturers myself. I don't think it's an inherent problem with Finetrax.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: craic on February 15, 2017, 12:37:08 PM
Seems working with handlayings, if not using spikes on the tracks.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ijmsmith on February 15, 2017, 08:01:07 PM
I suggest buy a small section of Finetrax and try it with your models. It should be OK with most modern (post 2000+ stock) and it is not expensive to build a short section of track and it is much much easier than hand laying track. Hope this helps!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Izzy on February 15, 2017, 10:19:26 PM
Hello craic,

The big problem with bullhead code 40 track is that deeper flanges can hit the inside chair because it's only 1mm deep. If you were to make your own using soldered construction then this would get over this issue if some stock has deep flanges.

I am not sure how widespread use of bullhead track is/was across Europe, but the 2mm Association sells both pcb sleepers and code 40 flatbottom rail as well as code 40 bullhead so perhaps using these parts might be a possible solution.

Izzy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 26, 2017, 11:35:32 AM
Hi Guys,

Apologies for the lack of progress on new kits.

Now released is the first 'Standard Crossover' in B8 configuration.

http://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-turnout-b8-crossover.htm (http://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-turnout-b8-crossover.htm)

(http://www.britishfinescale.com/v/vspfiles/images/b8crossoversmall01.jpg)
(http://www.britishfinescale.com/v/vspfiles/images/b8crossoversmall02.jpg)
(http://www.britishfinescale.com/v/vspfiles/images/b8crossoversmall03.jpg)
(http://www.britishfinescale.com/v/vspfiles/images/b8crossoversmall04.jpg)

The kit is basically 2 turnouts in 1, using one solid base and proper shared timbers. Designed with 23mm adjacent track centres. Cost is £29 (£4 saving compared to buying 2 standard turnout kits).

I want to get the following kits released by end of March:

All Standard Crossover Kits
1:5, 1:6, 1:7 and 1:8 Y Points
Ladder Crossover Kits
1:6 Single Slip

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on February 26, 2017, 11:42:35 AM
Wayne - very good to see the range being extended. I'll certainly be ordering some of the new stuff.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Carmont on February 26, 2017, 03:24:44 PM
Hi Guys,

Apologies for the lack of progress on new kits.

Now released is the first 'Standard Crossover' in B8 configuration.

[url]http://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-turnout-b8-crossover.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-turnout-b8-crossover.htm[/url])

([url]http://www.britishfinescale.com/v/vspfiles/images/b8crossoversmall01.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.britishfinescale.com/v/vspfiles/images/b8crossoversmall02.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.britishfinescale.com/v/vspfiles/images/b8crossoversmall03.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.britishfinescale.com/v/vspfiles/images/b8crossoversmall04.jpg[/url])

The kit is basically 2 turnouts in 1, using one solid base and proper shared timbers. Designed with 23mm adjacent track centres. Cost is £29 (£4 saving compared to buying 2 standard turnout kits).

I want to get the following kits released by end of March:

All Standard Crossover Kits
1:5, 1:6, 1:7 and 1:8 Y Points
Ladder Crossover Kits
1:6 Single Slip


What is a ladder crossover kit, please?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 26, 2017, 04:41:20 PM
Hi,

Like above, but one of the turnouts is a diamond crossing...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 01, 2017, 12:46:14 PM
I have just supplied all dimensional data of the fiNetraX range to David Hoogvorst of AnyRail track planning software. He is currently on holiday for 3 weeks but we should see fiNetrax added to AnyRail shortly after his return :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RailGooner on March 01, 2017, 12:53:49 PM
Hi Wayne,
any chance of fiNetrax being added to SCARM?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Pete2210 on March 01, 2017, 12:55:18 PM
Great news Wayne, my track plans will be a lot more accurate  :)

Pete
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jrb on March 01, 2017, 06:22:11 PM
Hi Wayne,
any chance of fiNetrax being added to SCARM?


Ditto, I much prefer Scarm. And I'm thinking about a 2nd layout, using Finetrax...

@Mixy (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=361)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 02, 2017, 08:36:19 AM
Hi,

Regarding Scarm - I would need to look into it/contact the developer...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mixy on March 02, 2017, 10:59:40 AM
Hello Wayne,

I am the developer of SCARM. You can send me PM or contact me at (http://www.scarm.info/mail.gif). I will be glad to add your track system into SCARM :)

Mixy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 02, 2017, 11:42:59 AM
Thanks Mixy,

I have sent you an email.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 08, 2017, 09:42:41 AM
Many thanks to 'Mixy' for the effort, fiNetrax library should be in a SCARM update this week :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on March 08, 2017, 10:46:06 AM
Wayne,
Lovely work - order following shortly
looking forward to slips - to build just for fun!

Robert   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on March 08, 2017, 10:59:49 AM
Has the Finetrax track library been added to AnyRail yet please?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 08, 2017, 11:25:31 AM
Has the Finetrax track library been added to AnyRail yet please?

I have just supplied all dimensional data of the fiNetraX range to David Hoogvorst of AnyRail track planning software. He is currently on holiday for 3 weeks but we should see fiNetrax added to AnyRail shortly after his return :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RailGooner on March 08, 2017, 03:12:14 PM
Many thanks to 'Mixy' for the effort, fiNetrax library should be in a SCARM update this week :)


 :thankyousign: Great news. Thanks Wayne, and @Mixy (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=361) too. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 27, 2017, 11:20:56 AM
Has the Finetrax track library been added to AnyRail yet please?

Hi, fiNetraX has now been added to AnyRail 6.6, many thanks to David Hoogvorst!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Pete2210 on March 27, 2017, 09:09:10 PM
Just rejigged my forthcoming layout using FiNetrax pointwork as recently added to the track database, thanks Wayne and David,  and it worked out great, the only problem was that there isn't a section of straight fiNetrax to use so I used Fastracks flex to fill in the spaces.

Pete
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: DCCDave on March 27, 2017, 09:57:44 PM
the only problem was that there isn't a section of straight fiNetrax

Agreed, can we get FineTrax flex added please

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 28, 2017, 08:06:28 AM
Hi Guys,

You can use any of the flexi track options...peco arnold etc.

I will ask if David will add a 500mm length, though...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 28, 2017, 10:54:00 PM
A very random post, testing my new 'filmmaking camera' (Sony A7Sii if interested) and my bad acting skills..LOL :D

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 31, 2017, 09:18:33 AM
Moving on from my previous off topic post :P

I have just finished the CAD tool paths for a 1in5 Y Point, just need to mill a prototype:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/906-310317091319.jpeg)

Also making progress on the single slip castings, this has been pretty tricky to be honest:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/906-310317091500.jpeg)


I am going away now on Holiday (Maldives, can't wait! :) ) so I will continue this when I return in just over a week. I was hoping to get this done before I left but it caused me a few design headaches :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RailGooner on March 31, 2017, 01:25:08 PM
Enjoy your break Wayne. :beers:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on April 28, 2017, 01:03:21 PM
Hi Guys,

Work has continued, I have just finished a 1in5 'Y' Point, hope to get this online after bank holiday:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/906-280417125812.jpeg)

I have also received the master wax patterns for the single slip castings:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/906-280417125948.jpeg)

They will be positioned roughly here on the base, imagine the sprues have been removed:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/906-280417130115.jpeg)

Now to get them lost wax cast :D

Hope everyone has a great Bank Holiday Weekend!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 04, 2017, 12:55:41 PM
Hi Guys,

The castings for the single slip arrived yesterday. They are pretty good, especially seeing how small they are - the casters have done a great job.

The issue is, they way that I designed it means that quite a few little plastic chairs around the cast K section need trimming very small, and this is pretty difficult to be honest. A little too fiddly as a solution I think.

So, I am back to head scratching, at the moment. The issue is really the switch blades, as there is little length left for them either side of the cast K section. So they are only being held by a few chairs...

A completely 'pivoting' switch blade system would probably be better, considering the short length of them, but that's a whole new headache.

Not too sure what to do, here...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RailGooner on June 04, 2017, 01:19:10 PM
 :thankyousign:
Thanks Wayne. I have some of your trackwork, but haven't got around to assembly yet. I have a notion to use it for the scenic side of any future layout, with Peco for off-scene/fiddle. At the moment I enjoy playing with ideas In SCARM and those ideas change constantly as your range expands. I, as I'm sure many others do, appreciate the work you and other cottage industry style enterprises put in. Work that helps keep this hobby vibrant, varied, and alive. I don't envy the many frustrations you must face, but sure do thank you for tackling them! :beers:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on June 04, 2017, 07:50:08 PM
 :greatpicturessign:

Love the Y but not need one at the mo. single slip moves - is it possible to add chairs to the master and have more plug in holes or like the latest 2mm variation have a screw in a hole to hold in place.
Is it worth considering cast blades with a lower lug for hole in tie bar and lug and hole in casting for heel end

cheers
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Dragonboy on June 06, 2017, 12:54:50 PM
So having bitten the bullet and bought a box of goodies from Wayne following a test build of a point - I'm sure the next one will be better, I'm now trying to lay the first length of straight track and was wondering if anyone has a solution to keeping sleepers perfectly positioned because at the moment it is borderline narrow gauge in appearance. I've just popped a length back into the jig or restore proper spacing and dabbed a few spots of superglue at about 3" intervals but this is probably harder than building the track in the first place.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 11, 2017, 12:57:05 PM
Hi Guys,

Work has progressed and I am pleased to show you a completed 1in6 Single Slip kit:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/906-110617125055.jpeg)


I am happy with how everything has turned out. I have made a simple jig to allow me to trim chairs, I will then supply chairs pre trimmed to fit around the cast K crossing area.

Let me know what you think :)

I need to work on instructions and assembly/wiring diamgram, this will take a bit of work also, but I'm getting there.

Good news is once this is complete, a double slip will be easy, simply mirroring one side of this kit (well, nearly...LOL)!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RailGooner on June 11, 2017, 01:33:13 PM
Engineering as art. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 11, 2017, 04:03:12 PM
Haha, thanks guys. A few more...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/906-110617155609.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/906-110617160050.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/906-110617160153.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/906-110617160219.jpeg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on June 11, 2017, 04:58:30 PM
That looks really good. Have you painted the frogs, or are you not using the cast ones any more? They look great.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 11, 2017, 05:42:57 PM
They are the same castings, but yes blackened using brass blackening fluid.

Yes, I can also supply these as cosmetic chairs for adding around the cast frog/K crossing.

I am now just spending my Sunday evening with a beer, trying to work out the next steps in the project... :beers:  8)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/906-110617181733.jpeg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ODRAILS on June 11, 2017, 06:57:55 PM
Are code 40 bullhead fishplates/rail joiners likely to be available soon?
Ian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 11, 2017, 07:46:31 PM
Hi Ian,

They are the next thing on my list to go to tooling, yes :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on June 25, 2017, 01:19:11 AM
I hope you know what you've done, Wayne. Now you've produced the Single Slip I'm going to have to plan and build a Midland Railway layout and buy a bunch of Farish Midland & LMS loco's. And I suspect many others are thinking the same thing. I hope you're happy with yourself...

 :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RailGooner on June 25, 2017, 09:44:32 AM
They are the same castings, but yes blackened using brass blackening fluid.

Yes, I can also supply these as cosmetic chairs for adding around the cast frog/K crossing.

I am now just spending my Sunday evening with a beer, trying to work out the next steps in the project... :beers:  8)

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/906-110617181733.jpeg[/url])


Do I spy concrete sleepers there Wayne? :envy:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardBattersby on June 25, 2017, 10:59:00 PM
I just made an order for a couple of lengths of flexi and the jig. My layout is too far on to really take advantage of this amazing track but I can at least try a bit of it.

Is there a three way point in the pipeline?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 26, 2017, 08:29:13 AM
Thanks for your order.

Yes, I've been looking at the geometry for a 3 way point...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardBattersby on July 16, 2017, 08:41:39 PM
The slip looks good!

I've just updated Anyrail and am very pleased to see Finetrax present in the library. Will the half metre flexi be added at some point?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on July 21, 2017, 11:00:30 AM
Thanks, I am going to ask David if he will add this.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: carlwooduk on July 31, 2017, 08:07:36 PM
I am in the process of planning my next layout , Fairford Glos an interesting variation of the ubiquitous GWR branch line terminus.
 I need to upgrade my version of Anyrail to include Finetrax. I have plenty of reference books with the prototypical track plan, there are only 8 points but how do I assess which will be correct size ones from the range A5 etc?
Cheers Carl.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ollie3440 on July 31, 2017, 08:36:24 PM
Evening all,

Have to say I'm very impressed with what i've seen on here, so much so that over the weekend I placed an order for a few point kits and some flexi to have a play before deciding whether my layout in planning will use fiNetrax. Got to say hats off to Wayne as I forgot to add the Jig to my original order and he was very swift in replying to allow me to add the jig to my original order, top class customer service. Now to wait patiently for the postman :D

Cheers,

Ollie

 :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 01, 2017, 01:21:56 PM
Hi Guys,

The A5 Y Point is now up on the website.

I am still working out a solution for the trimmed chairs on the single slip kit, but have milled a batch of A5 Standard Crossover bases, should have these up also, over the next few days...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardBattersby on August 01, 2017, 01:25:08 PM
 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 08, 2017, 11:02:48 AM
Hi guys,

The A5 Standard Crossover kit is now up:
http://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-turnout-a5-crossover.htm (http://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-turnout-a5-crossover.htm)

Tomorrow I will be receiving some 3D printed test chairs, these are special trimmed chairs testing for a solution for the single and double slip kits. I will let you know how these look, tomorrow :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardC on September 02, 2017, 04:15:28 PM
Just thought I`d bring this topic back to the fore, seeing that it has gone a little quiet ??
and having a vested interest in a double slip.
I ripped up my Peco code 55 track, when Wayne started producing what I thought was something more realistic.
Trouble is, it`s based on a real location and that includes the dreaded double slip, and I`ve gone just about as far as I can without it.
Still, one thing is, it`s making me take my time on the things I do have !
Richard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on September 03, 2017, 06:41:00 PM
DIY using Templot guides?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardC on September 06, 2017, 08:08:54 AM
DIY using Templot guides?
certainly a possibility if push comes to shove. Bit of a steep learning curve for a one off. I think for the moment I'll hang on and hope Wayne solves the problem.
Richard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 14, 2017, 08:54:34 AM
Hey Guys,

I've been pretty busy with my camera business over the Summer so not much move on fiNetraX, unfortunately.

I did go to TINGS on Saturday which has fueled my enthusiasm somewhat :) I must say the layouts were great this year, more steam layouts I believe which is great ;)

I'll see if I can sort this issue with the trimmed chairs for the single slip by the end of this month. Once successful, the double slip will be easier as most of the leg work will have been done on the single slip...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on September 14, 2017, 10:29:27 AM
Hi ,
Glad you enjoyed TINGS and thanks for all you do. On the sunday I covered the DEMU stand and had fiNetrax points on display and some plain track, popular but I fear no converts this time.

Looking forward to slips  so hope work can progress.  Like you been busy but crossover base gas been prepainted as an experiment.

Robert   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 14, 2017, 11:22:30 AM
Thanks Robert, yeah it was very enjoyable! Cool to hear my track was on display, thanks!

I have been looking at the single slip all morning, and I believe the best route is to modify the cast K crossings again and get them remade.

I believe I can add more clearance into the castings meaning that the plastic chairs don't need trimming so damn close, so it will be a much easier kit build.

I did not do this with the first iteration of the castings as they are delicate to cast as it is, but now having them produced I am confident that I can modify them, giving more clearance and still be 'cast-able'.

This will take a few more weeks to get new wax masters printed, new moulds made and fresh castings made. Little bit of a loss on the first molds but I think it is the right decision for the kit!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardC on September 18, 2017, 08:03:56 PM
Thanks Wayne,
Waiting patiently----sort of !!
Hope it all works out OK.
Richard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 27, 2017, 12:49:12 PM
Got the new wax masters for the slip this morning. Now to send them to the 'casters' (I always seem to call them casters, maybe I should say foundry, hhmm)...

Hope to have fresh castings in about 3 weeks.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: petejones on October 01, 2017, 01:48:59 AM
Just about to embark on a new layout and have purchased sufficient  Peco Code 55 track and turnouts already, but am seriously considering switching to fiNetrax after seeing the ad in the latest N Gauge Journal. Looks much, much better, especially the turnouts, so why waste time?

Cheers
Pete
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 01, 2017, 10:42:58 AM
Hi Guys,

The updated K crossing castings for the single slip finally arrived this morning. They look pretty clean, so will give them a test run over the next few days.

I think I am finally there with this kit (taken ages!)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardC on November 01, 2017, 11:42:58 AM
Fingers crossed------ and toes
Hope everything goes as planned.
Richard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 10, 2017, 10:11:09 AM
Finally got a new and updated single slip base CNC milled this morning and I have tested the new K castings. Good news, they fit nice and there is now good clearance for the plastic chairs.

The chairs around the casting do need to be trimmed up to the lugs which is very easy to do.

So I am very happy with this now, just need to finish off the instructions and the single slip kit is ready (finally!).

This has taken much longer than expected and has delayed progress on other kits but I can now crack on with other kits...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ten0G on November 11, 2017, 12:13:13 PM
Finally got a new and updated single slip base CNC milled this morning and I have tested the new K castings. Good news, they fit nice and there is now good clearance for the plastic chairs.

That's good news Wayne, thanks. 

Do you have any plans to expand the range of K castings soon, or will the development process need to be repeated for other angles? 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 12, 2017, 08:47:57 AM
Yes, now the development work has done, other angles will be easy. I will release the single and double 1:6 slip kits first, then move onto 1:8.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ten0G on November 12, 2017, 08:58:47 AM
Yes, now the development work has done, other angles will be easy. I will release the single and double 1:6 slip kits first, then move onto 1:8.

That's encouraging, thanks.  How about 1:5, though? 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 12, 2017, 09:12:41 AM
Hi,

There will be a 1:5 diamond crossing, but it's too tight an angle for a single or double slip...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ten0G on November 12, 2017, 09:39:03 AM
Hi,

There will be a 1:5 diamond crossing, but it's too tight an angle for a single or double slip...

... and 1:7? 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on November 12, 2017, 10:28:51 AM
Give the man a chance, he canít do every permutation!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 12, 2017, 01:58:28 PM
I plan to do:

1in5 diamond
1in6 single/double slip
1in7 diamond crossing & single/double slip
1in8 single/double slip
1in9 diamond crossing & single/double slip
1in10 diamond crossing & single/double slip

Eventually :D:D:D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ten0G on November 12, 2017, 03:48:33 PM
I plan to do:

1in5 diamond
1in6 single/double slip
1in7 diamond crossing & single/double slip
1in8 single/double slip
1in9 diamond crossing & single/double slip
1in10 diamond crossing & single/double slip

Eventually :D:D:D


Thanks Wayne, it helps to know what to choose from before I can start building a station with main, relief and goods lines as well as a goods yard. 

1:6, 1:7 and 1:8 will have to do as I doubt that I'll have room for 'C' radius points.   :'(
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardC on November 12, 2017, 07:06:15 PM
 Looks like my spending is going up shortly  :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 13, 2017, 08:05:17 AM
1:6, 1:7 and 1:8 will have to do as I doubt that I'll have room for 'C' radius points.   :'(

You can download and print finetrax templates from either AnyRail or SCARM.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: nabber on November 13, 2017, 09:11:35 AM
Hi Wayne,

I plan to do:

1in5 diamond
1in6 single/double slip
1in7 diamond crossing & single/double slip
1in8 single/double slip
1in9 diamond crossing & single/double slip
1in10 diamond crossing & single/double slip

Eventually :D:D:D


I remember seeing comments elsewhere that ordinary crossings/slips weren't generally used for angles flatter than 1in8 - I think all the bits of rail just don't fit. Switch diamonds would be used instead.
Here are a couple of posts I found on RMWeb:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/103298-western-region-k-crossing-vs-double-slips/?p=2035375 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/103298-western-region-k-crossing-vs-double-slips/?p=2035375)
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/19804-switched-diamonds/?p=626493 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/19804-switched-diamonds/?p=626493)
Some of the posts in those threads are talking about newer flatbottom track, but some are much older.
Regards,
Neil
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 13, 2017, 09:41:49 AM
Thanks for the useful info!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: alibuchan on November 13, 2017, 11:23:07 AM
1:6, 1:7 and 1:8 will have to do as I doubt that I'll have room for 'C' radius points.   :'(


You can download and print finetrax templates from either AnyRail or SCARM.


Only issue is you canít use these programs on Macs. Might it be an option to speak to the people behind RailModeller pro to see if they can add your library to their system.

Alistair

http://www.railmodeller.com/home-railmodeller.html (http://www.railmodeller.com/home-railmodeller.html)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JosephP on November 13, 2017, 05:57:14 PM
Anyrail shows quite a lot of items, including a 3-way tandem, that don't appear on Wayne's website. I'm not sure which is correct.

But good news about the slips (especially singles). I need to match #8s with a diamond #4 which is not showing on Anyrail.

Anyrail does show a #3.5 diamond which I could match with #7 turnouts & slips as an alternative. But Wayne does not mention a #3.5 diamond.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 13, 2017, 06:26:38 PM
Anyrail shows quite a lot of items, including a 3-way tandem, that don't appear on Wayne's website. I'm not sure which is correct.

You need to choose the Finetrax library within AnyRail.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JosephP on November 14, 2017, 10:07:09 AM
That's my point, Wayne.

I have gone into the fiNetrax library on Anyrail and it is showing stuff that is not on your website. Confusing!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 14, 2017, 10:26:50 AM
That's my point, Wayne.

I have gone into the fiNetrax library on Anyrail and it is showing stuff that is not on your website. Confusing!


Hmmm, it doesn't on mine, are you sure you are only viewing the 'N finetrax' library?
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/58/906-141117102617.jpeg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JosephP on November 15, 2017, 11:53:52 AM
Ah yes, I see now. I should have gone to Specsavers.

I have been looking at the Fasttracks templates, confusingly listed under N rather than 2mm.

Joseph
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: HSB on November 15, 2017, 06:01:42 PM
That's because they are for British N scale not 2mm!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jpendle on November 15, 2017, 06:53:07 PM
Hi Wayne,

Do you have any plans in the next 6 months to produce flat bottom rail and/or concrete sleepered track?

I'm just about to commit to Peco Code 55, but if you have something that's imminent I could be persuaded to wait.

Thanks,

John P
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 16, 2017, 08:46:30 AM
Hi Wayne,

Do you have any plans in the next 6 months to produce flat bottom rail and/or concrete sleepered track?

I'm just about to commit to Peco Code 55, but if you have something that's imminent I could be persuaded to wait.

Thanks,

John P

Hi John,

The short answer is yes, but maybe in the next 12 months. The issue right now is funding the tooling, I first need to tool up for a stamping tool to make fish plates for the code 40 bullhead rail.

Once that is done, I will look into the flat bottom rail with concrete sleepers/timbering.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on November 16, 2017, 12:33:15 PM
Iíd definitely be tempted by FB/concrete sleeper.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on November 16, 2017, 12:48:44 PM
Another vote for concrete FB track! If funding is the issue it might be worth seeing if you can get enough interest to crowdfund it or similar.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 07, 2017, 02:19:33 PM
Hi Guys,

Sorry for the slow progress. I realised that because the double slip kit uses the same casting as on the single slip, I needed to get this designed first before signing off the casting for the single slip.

So I went about designing the base for the 1in6 double slip. It's working out great, below are some pictures of one completed half (minus tie bar).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/58/906-071217140638.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/58/906-071217140711.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/58/906-071217140933.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/58/906-071217141001.jpeg)


It's a little more complicated designing the tie bar arrangement to accurately position 4 switch blades, but I think I know how to do it, just need to run some trials. I also need new, smaller switch blade chair plates produced due to the tiny amount of room available between the 2 inner/central switch blades - the standard chair plates don't fit!

One little problem, which is actually a design mistake on my part. I have not made the central K castings high enough, the rail height is slightly lower that the actual code 40 rail - resulting in a bump when running.

I checked the CAD and low and behold I had made a mistake in the CAD measurement!

I have already got these made twice (2 different molds so now 4x molds) and now have to get them made once again, 3 revisions for 2 different molds = getting expensive!

But to be honest I am glad it is just due to a simple CAD error, rather than some unpredictable phenomena from casting or shrinkage etc...

So another batch of 3D printed masters and more molds to be made, but other than that I am happy with the (albeit slow) progress :)

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karhedron on December 07, 2017, 02:35:00 PM
Hi Wayne,

The double slip looks different in layout to the Peco one. I was expecting to see something with an arrangement more like this.

(http://www.embsayboltonabbeyrailway.org.uk/oldsite/historic/fws044.jpg)

Not a criticism but the one you have produced looks more like the Fleicshmann style of slip. Is that correct for UK prototypes?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 07, 2017, 02:46:52 PM
Hiya!

I have checked the picture and it is the same arrangement, albeit to N gauge clearances.

I have used templot to generate the template, apart from difference in flange way gaps, what do you feel is different?

NOTE: the tie bar is not currently in place, so all switch blades are contacting the stock rails at the moment...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 07, 2017, 02:53:34 PM
I've just looked, and the Peco version is actually missing a check rail that is present both on mine and the B&W photo...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Karhedron on December 07, 2017, 02:54:00 PM
Ignore me. I think I just had a "senior moment".  :-[

Sorry for the confusion, you are quite right.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 07, 2017, 03:05:22 PM
np, just didn't know what you meant. Maybe it's because the switch blades are contacting the stock rails at the moment, so maybe gives the impression of the fleischmann double slip?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 07, 2017, 03:34:32 PM
I have mentioned previously about the need for the builder to 'trim chairs' around the K castings, this image should give you a better idea of what I mean:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/906-071217153225.jpeg)

With the chair located into the hole on the base, it is very easy to trim the chair down as shown with a sharp scalpel/Exacto Blade .
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on December 07, 2017, 03:43:11 PM
WOW ! looks amazing hopefully all will be sorted in new year.  I can see tiebars as complex so good luck.

Robert 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Smiffy on December 07, 2017, 04:12:52 PM
Have some how missed this thread, so posting in order to keep aware.

Progress looking good - in the new year will resolve to take the plunge

Regards

Iain
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: CliveP on December 30, 2017, 10:58:39 PM
Wayne, your photos seem to show the crossing castings as almost as silver as the rail, but in the hand they appear a pale gold.. Do you finish or polish the castings in some way ?
Clive
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 07, 2018, 09:50:03 AM
Happy New Year everyone!

Hi Clive,

Yes, castings take on a matte/dull finish but its very easy to polish them. This is what I do and only takes about 10 minutes:

1: Use a tiny brush and chemical blackening fluid, brush into the entire flangeway area between the rails to blacken it. This looks much better and hides the fact that it is a solid casting.

2: Using the same file I use to file the switch blades, lay the file flat on a work surface and then lay the casting upside down with railhead in contact with the file. rub the casting on the file using light pressure. Keep checking until the rail tops are shiny.

3: Polish the visible sides of the rails (casting) with a glass fibre scratch pen to brighten it up and match (closely) to the actual code 40 rail.

4: Last step is optional but I also chemically blacken the very bottom of the casting.


You will notice that the casting blends in with the actual rail much better this way.

Hoping to receive revision 3 of the slip castings this month :)


Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on January 11, 2018, 11:41:26 PM
Clifton and Lowther in the February Railway Modeller looks very good with fiNetrax :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Mr chapman on January 15, 2018, 06:31:47 PM
Hello :) Finally making the switch over to fiNetrax as I cant resist the look anymore :) I'm all sorted for the front of the layout, but are there any plans to add a curved point in the future? No rush as it will be off scene and I can add it in later. I just don't want to have to graft your track to code 55 in the fiddle yard.

As an aside... Has anyone tried a newer union mills loco on code 40 track?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: chalky64 on January 20, 2018, 04:44:28 PM
Clifton and Lowther in the February Railway Modeller looks very good with fiNetrax :thumbsup:
I agree - it looks fantastic. I would struggle to tell the difference between that and 2mm finescale as far as the track itself is concerned - the only giveaway being the wheels.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardC on January 21, 2018, 12:02:47 PM


As an aside... Has anyone tried a newer union mills loco on code 40 track?
[/quote]

Depends on the term "newer", my J 39 and B12 (both about 3years old) run through track and what point work I have laid, OK.
Richard

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 24, 2018, 01:58:07 PM
Clifton and Lowther in the February Railway Modeller looks very good with fiNetrax :thumbsup:

Oh nice, I didn't know about this, must grab a copy of RM.

I found a video of it here (Go to 12 minutes 30 seconds):


I am not sure if I will do curved turnouts. The standard kit bases can be cut along the webbing and subtle curves introduced.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on January 24, 2018, 02:54:31 PM
Hello :) Finally making the switch over to fiNetrax as I cant resist the look anymore :) I'm all sorted for the front of the layout, but are there any plans to add a curved point in the future? No rush as it will be off scene and I can add it in later. I just don't want to have to graft your track to code 55 in the fiddle yard.

As an aside... Has anyone tried a newer union mills loco on code 40 track?

Hi doing a join is "easy" file the foot off a section of code 55 so you have just the upper rail bit, then tad more- to 40 thou. Use copper clad sheet  gaped and with section of code 40  on sleeper sections butt both track sections on the pcb and solder. I used some thin card to slope code 40 track to match but I expect by messing with base levels a no slope solution can be achieved.
Robert   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 02, 2018, 12:27:49 PM
Hi Guys,

Unfortunately, we have hit a bit of a brick wall with my lost wax casting supplier (Just Like the Real Thing).

They have been making the fiNetrax castings for about 4 years now, but they have just told me that they are no longer providing this casting service for the foreseeable future.

So that now leaves me with trying to find a new casting supplier that can cast in Nickel Silver! There aren't many out there I think.

So this has obviously thrown a spanner in the works on the single and double slip castings. I have limited supply of the other frog castings 1:5 through to 1:10, so will need to find a new supplier, pronto!

Sorry about this guys!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardBattersby on February 02, 2018, 07:26:09 PM
That's bad news. Good luck with finding a new company.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardC on February 02, 2018, 07:27:02 PM
That's definitely put a spanner in the works ! I hope you can find another supplier. I've been hanging on and hanging on, ( for the double slip) everything is worked up on the layout, can't do anything more without the slip. Looks like I will have to get on with the decorating. She will be pleased !
Fingers crossed
Richard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 03, 2018, 10:00:37 AM
Thanks for your patience!

I have already found a potential supplier, they actually specialise in casting model train and ship parts in Brass, Bronze and Nickel Silver.

I am waiting to get all my moulds back from JLTRT next week, I will then forward them to the new supplier so they can run some samples for me.

I am optimistic! :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on February 03, 2018, 11:02:12 AM
Hi
Just a thought Shapeways 3D  print folk offer a metal "printing service" I wonder how conductive it is and would it make an alternative?

Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 03, 2018, 06:20:56 PM
Hi Robert,

I used Shapeways lost wax casting on some frogs a few years ago, the quality was :censored: :D

I do use Shapeways a lot for my camera accessories business, though.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on February 03, 2018, 06:24:27 PM
Hi Robert,

I used Shapeways lost wax casting on some frogs a few years ago, the quality was :censored: :D

I do use Shapeways a lot for my camera accessories business, though.
Well there you go ! said the voice of experience
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 13, 2018, 07:57:09 AM
The moulds are now in the hands of the new lost wax casting suppliers, along with version 3 master patterns for the slip kits.

They will first make samples with one of my existing moulds so I can check and judge quality. If all seems well, they will make moulds for the slip kits.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Caz on February 13, 2018, 08:47:03 AM
Oh dear, my rip up and start again with code 40 draws closer.   :doh:   :worried:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 28, 2018, 01:38:46 PM
Hi Guys,

OK, little update...

I have just got samples from the new supplier of lost wax cast crossing frogs. Unfortunately the results are only about 50% quality of the previous supplier (that is no longer supplying) and not usable for the kits. I believe the issue is happening at the mould stage, where they inject hot molten wax into the mould. I believe the mould is not filling properly.

I have been scratching my head for about 3 hours trying to come up with a solution. I have thoughts about CNC milling them, photo etching but each has there pro's/con's...

Before I started using the previous supplier (Just Like the Real Thing), I was using a 3D printed Wax service to directly 3D print the waxes and cast them. At the time (4 years ago) JLTRT then did not want to cast from my 3D printed waxes an insisted on moulds being made. So moulds were used for the last 4 years.

I think I will try this approach again as it removes the need for moulds.

This is costing a little time and money, but until I get to a working solution, there is only limited stock of current kit castings, and the slip kits will be on hold until we get to a solution.

Sorry for the delay and fuss...

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on February 28, 2018, 03:06:53 PM
Thanks for that @Wayne Kinney (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=906).
Just wondering if there is the option of fabricating the frog? Perhaps supply the ready bent rail for the modeller to apply to the base?
Ok, might be a bit more for the modeller to have to do, but is it at least worth consideration, if the other methods dont work out?

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on February 28, 2018, 04:13:32 PM
Definitely worth looking at I'd say, if only as an option/stopgap until you sort out the castings. I know you do the cast frogs to save effort for the end user, but I think having 'proper' rail-built frogs does look better.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Vanders on March 01, 2018, 11:49:53 AM
Sorry to hear about your troubles. Have you considered reaching out to kit makers like Slaters, who are capable of producing very good lost-wax castings, and asking them if they can put you in touch with their supplier (or if they'd supply for you, if they do it in-house)?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 02, 2018, 11:10:55 AM
Thanks for your suggestions.

I am persisting with getting them cast as it keeps the kit easy to build which is the whole 'point', really.

I have received the 3D printed waxes, 1in8 frog crossing in this case. I will forward them to the new supplier/caster to be directly invested (no moulds involved).

Below are 2 pics, sorry for the awful macro photography:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/906-020318110729.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/906-020318110752.jpeg)

I am also getting waxes 3D printed for the slip kits, should have these tomorrow so will also get them cast at the same time.

This route does increase the cost of producing them a little, I might need to raise the price of the kits slightly, but it will only be less then £1 rise.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on March 02, 2018, 11:23:24 AM
Very good! You can use those for the insulfrog version ;-)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on March 02, 2018, 11:54:37 AM
In what geometries will the slips be available please Wayne?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 02, 2018, 04:35:32 PM
Hi,

They will be available as single/double slip in 1in6, 1in7, 1in8,1in9 & 1in10...

Its just getting this first kit released that's the hard work.... :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 06, 2018, 09:20:26 AM
Hi Guys,

Unfortunately my mother passed away on Sunday afternoon, so apologies if updated become a little slower over the next week :(

I will be sending the 3D printed waxes over to the lost wax caster today, hopefully should get them turn around in a week. I have included waxes for the slip kits.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2018, 09:22:41 AM
Deepest sympathies Wayne, hope you have lots of lovely memories. 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on March 06, 2018, 09:25:44 AM
So sorry to hear the bad news.  All the best to you and your family Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on March 06, 2018, 09:45:08 AM
Sincere condolences, Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on March 06, 2018, 10:21:30 AM
Waye ,
Sorry to read of loss , family first so keep well and thoughts to you and family

Robert 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 09, 2018, 12:05:30 PM
Thanks for your kind replies, guys!

Feeling a little better now, thanks. Might I ask a favor from someone?

Does anyone have a couple of lengths of code 40 flat bottom rail from the 2mm SA that they could let me have?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 16, 2018, 12:39:22 PM
Hi Guys,

Feeling a little better after having a chance to mourn the passing of my mother (thanks for the kind words and condolences on previous page).

I am now continuing with work and trying to fulfill backed up orders (sorry anyone waiting).

I have received cast nickel silver samples from the 3D printed waxes and they are nice so I believe this will be the process I will continue to use. I have some nice samples for the single/double slip, also.

I am also looking into the flat bottom rail plain line and turnouts again. I have found HIPS sheet material to mill 'concrete' bases, this is a mid to light grey/silver (lighter then mid grey) but not as bright/light grey as the concrete sleeper moldings from the 2MM SA.

Does this matter, do you think? If I match the plain line to this silver grey do you guys think that will be suitable?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 16, 2018, 02:00:30 PM
Further to the above...

Once I confirm the suitability of the silver grey HIPS sheet for the 'concrete' turnout bases (I want your opinions, guys!), I will go ahead and commence tooling for flat bottom rail concrete plain line flexi track (with or without Dow-mac branding). I can then get this released THIS year, and will tool for flat bottom rail turnout chairs/kits next year...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on March 16, 2018, 03:33:52 PM
Sounds good Wayne, look forward to seeing it, more my era! It's been mentioned before, but what geometry are you proposing to use for the modern FB turnouts, as they don't tend to follow the same geometry as the BH ones, but rather be longer.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on March 16, 2018, 03:43:55 PM
Hi Wayne

Have you got some pics of the different grey options?

It all sounds very positive for those of us wanting FB turnouts - I think they will be a real game changer in terms of appearance.  If Templot doesn't have FB pointwork then Colin Craig sells 4mm plans of FB pointwork (though I suspect he would resize to N if you asked him).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on March 16, 2018, 04:21:46 PM
Templot can definitely do FB, and has  templates for some of the larger (but not the crazy) length turnouts.

I certainly echo Mike's thoughts, if the BH is anything to go by then I'm sure it'll be a marked improvement on anything we have at the moment!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 17, 2018, 09:45:25 AM
Thanks Guys,

I'll mill some more bases and take a picture to show.

Regarding geometry, all current bullhead kits will be available for flat bottom rail (as same CNC milling program, just on light grey sheet).

I can also, with the help of you guys and templot, design kits specific to more modern FB geometry. I would need some help here so if we collaborate together we can come to an agreed design for these. But since this is just a matter of milling a different base, it should be easy to add any geometry to the library of kits.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 17, 2018, 01:22:31 PM
Hey,

Here are a couple of pics showing the grey material I would use for the concrete turnout bases. Pictured next to the black 'wooden' bases of the current bullhead kits, and also a peice of concrete flat bottom rail plain line from the 2mm SA:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/906-170318131620.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/906-170318131643.jpeg)

Not as light a grey as the 2mmSA track, but acceptable? Should I mould the plain line bases to match the darker grey of the turnout base (so all match) or keep plain line the lighter grey?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on March 17, 2018, 01:26:24 PM
The mid grey point base looks good to me Wayne. I'd be tempted to mould plain track in the same colour if possible but not crucial for most people I suspect as they will be weathering the track.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 17, 2018, 01:34:39 PM
Thanks Mike,

I am thinking the same, so they match - I guess matching would be best for weathering, plus would hide the fact that it is a darker grey...

I would like to hear thoughts from others regarding the shade of grey, please :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RailGooner on March 17, 2018, 02:47:54 PM
Ideally the colour should be matched across the range. For me, the 2SA is a closer colour match to the prototype.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: alibuchan on March 17, 2018, 02:55:53 PM
Is it possible to get another 49 shades so we can all judge the best one.

Sorry Iím going 🤣
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 17, 2018, 03:18:20 PM
Is it possible to get another 49 shades so we can all judge the best one.

Sorry Iím going 🤣

hahaha, that really sums up my last few weeks of trying..LOL
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on March 17, 2018, 09:41:36 PM

Hi Wayne,

For me your grey is fine.  I would be weathering anyway, and if you look at concrete sleepered track the colour varies anyway.

But I do think it makes sense if possible for the plain track to match the points.

For me the 2mmA track - while fine - is no more or less accurate.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on March 17, 2018, 10:15:46 PM
I prefer the 2mm SA colour myself, but it wouldnít be a deal breaker at all.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on March 18, 2018, 09:47:58 AM
I think its crucial that the colour of the plain track and the turnout bases match. The original base colour doesnt matter that much, but having the two the same is much more important. This is because, as pointed out elsewhere, modellers will weather the track. But weathering is usually done in one go, and any differences in base colour will still show through the weathering.
I know the diffeences are greatly exagertaed in peco points, but thats what we have at the moment, peco concrete track and wooden sleeper points, which no matter how heavily weathered, still look different from each other.
Great work though Wayne, I cant wait to get started!
Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on March 18, 2018, 10:38:33 AM
I'd vote for matching collar and cuffs within your own range.  Don't see the logic in matching your plain track to the 2mm stuff but not your own points! :no:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on March 18, 2018, 10:41:37 AM
I presume though that Wayne could sell the 2mm SA stuff within his own range, so itís easier not to have to change the bases.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on March 18, 2018, 06:57:27 PM

Wayne,

I agree with others who say it makes sense for you to have your own self contained range, and for all your parts to harmonise with each other. 

While it would be nice to match what's already out there, if I am right in understanding that your point bases are the limiting factor colour wise then it makes sense to match your own plain train to these.

And as others have said, any laid track can be weathered to the modeller's desired final finish anyway.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on March 18, 2018, 10:20:48 PM
Wayne ,
I agree with the majority view of matching colour on the range. It does allow use of the 2SA sleeper units for loads on salmons.

Being cheeky we now need a set of mouldings of just sleepers for a new wagon suggestion that revolutionises PW train modelling.... Here the lighter 2SA colour is an advantage of showing newness compared to stuff in use. 

Robert   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on March 18, 2018, 10:26:16 PM
Or complete 60ft track panels on Sturgeon ;-)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on April 09, 2018, 01:16:50 PM
Hi Guys,

Sorry for not giving any updates but I've had it pretty hard the last month. First my Mother passes away, and then my wife gets knocked off her scooter by some tw*t of a driver. She was in hospital for over a week with a busted spleen, but am happy to say is recovering well. God, what a month!

Anyhow, I have sent a 'beta' double slip kit to forum member RichardC. He is going to test build for me and hopefully report the progress on here. His test build will help me identify any issues and also help with the written instructions. Hoping to finally get this released by the end of the month...

Thanks,
Wayne,
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on April 09, 2018, 04:08:18 PM
Wayne - Crikey not good news but hopefully some "normality" soon. good to read on DS build.

have you seen the latest DEMU mag with some lovely and no doubt costly Canadian Alu jigs and laster cut ply for flatbottom turnouts.  It all helps awareness of not having to be wed to Peco pointwork.

regards
Robert         
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Tank on April 09, 2018, 08:19:29 PM
Sorry to hear of the bad news Wayne.  All the best to you and your family.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on April 19, 2018, 11:59:04 AM
Thanks Guys :)

Work is progressing on the double slip instructions and diagrams, so should be releasing this soon.

Also, tooling for flat bottom plain line concrete flexi track bases will commence mid June :) This will include plain and also DOW-MAC branded.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on April 24, 2018, 12:34:14 PM
Hi Guys,

Right, luck really isn't on my side, lately. The supplier I decided to use to 3D print the crossing frogs in wax have now emailed me saying they don't want to continue doing it as they are too fragile..BAH!

So I am now back to the drawing board! I am seriously looking into milling these myself now on the CNC router straight out of nickel silver sheet. They wouldn't have the rail recess detail like the current castings have, though :(

Bit of an uphill struggle right now...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardBattersby on April 24, 2018, 12:45:15 PM
That is bad news. I'm sorry you're having such trouble. Not what you need at the moment I'm sure.
Is it possible to produce them in the same way/use same supplier as the 2mm Association? Apologies if this is a naive suggestion.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on April 24, 2018, 12:51:04 PM
Thanks Richard,

It would be very similar as I think they also mill them from Nickel Silver sheet.

The only downside is that it would be missing the recess detail of the rail
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardBattersby on April 24, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
In which case, it sounds like a great idea to me.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: andyhanson on April 24, 2018, 04:42:20 PM
Thanks Richard,

It would be very similar as I think they also mill them from Nickel Silver sheet.

The only downside is that it would be missing the recess detail of the rail

Just to clarify - the 2mm Easitrac crossings do have the recess milled in the side of the rail on the outer (visible) portions, so it is possible to do it.

Andy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ten0G on April 25, 2018, 06:52:23 PM

Just to clarify - the 2mm Easitrac crossings do have the recess milled in the side of the rail on the outer (visible) portions, so it is possible to do it.

Andy

Thanks Andy, sounds promising especially if there are no other options.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: cutting42 on May 02, 2018, 12:30:42 PM
I have been gently reviving my interest in N gauge with purchases in stock but my layout concept is still the same. However given the progress in track systems it may be time to sell all the stockpiled Peco track and turnouts (at least the "front of house" ones and replace with Finetrax. As my interest is in 90's and 00's ECML I would probably be waiting for the FB rail and concrete sleepers for the main lines at least.

Thanks for doing this Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Sammmm on May 31, 2018, 09:12:14 PM
Hi  Wayne,

Just wandering when the double/single slips are due to be released?

Also has anybody used finetrax for corners with a radius of 300mm with no problems with running?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 06, 2018, 03:30:23 PM
Hi Guys,

I appologise for being somewhat quiet here over the last month, but I have honestly been VERY busy in the background!

I have mentioned previously about supplier problems, mainly the suppliers of my lost wax frog castings had stopped trading.

To rub salt in the wound, the supplier of my bullhead rail (and they also supply the 2mm Scale Association and C&L Finescale) have decided to up their pricing by nearly 4x times! This happened at the end of April and has really cast a dark cloud on the project :(

Fortunately, I have over 12 years experience in the product manufacturing industry and many good supplier links. I believe I have established good links to new suppliers of both the rail and castings, so I am just going through last designs with both of them to get manufacturing and stock supplies back on 'track'.

This has been a lot of work, so progress has inevitably been put on hold on any new kit development, including the slip kits. But I believe that I will be over this hurdle within 2 weeks, and back to the development of the fiNetraX range.

Also, I have now paid the deposit to commence tooling on the concrete sleeper, flat bottom rail bases. This tool should be completed in about 8 weeks. Anyone up for samples? :D

I have also been very heavily working with my injection moulder and a company that deals with plastic colouring (masterbatch) and sampling the correct shade of grey for the concrete sleepers. I have also finally sourced a much better, light grey HIPS sheet material to mill the concrete turnout bases from - all is looking very good indeed!

So sorry again for the slow news and development, these problems inevitably takes months, not weeks, to sort out! :)

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: cutting42 on June 06, 2018, 03:39:13 PM
Thanks for the update, I was thinking about this yesterday.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RailGooner on June 06, 2018, 03:42:36 PM
Sounds like concrete progress there Wayne. :D

 :-[ I'll get my coat.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Gordon D on June 06, 2018, 03:46:34 PM
"Also, I have now paid the deposit to commence tooling on the concrete sleeper, flat bottom rail bases. This tool should be completed in about 8 weeks. Anyone up for samples?" ---- Yes please.

Also will you be manufacturing wooden sleepers for flat bottom rails?

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on June 06, 2018, 03:47:10 PM
Definitely interested in the concrete sleeper stuff for my next layout!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on June 06, 2018, 04:06:51 PM
Also will you be manufacturing wooden sleepers for flat bottom rails?

Unfortunately, its over £4K in tooling, so I doubt that would be anytime soon, sorry ;) :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: cutting42 on June 06, 2018, 04:12:07 PM
With this update it is time to sell all my Peco code 55 stuff I believe
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ten0G on June 21, 2018, 05:14:31 PM

My test track is an oval with approx. 275mm radius and I've not had any problems with running.


Lindi,

Could you please clarify if 275mm is the radius of the track centre, or the inside or outside rail. 

It may be useful for me to use this as the minimum radius for sidings, etc., thanks.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on July 20, 2018, 11:56:11 AM
Hi Guys,

Finally back on track with product development.

I have just submitted final CAD for version 4 of the single/double slip cast crossings to be 3D printed to create a new wax master, ready for a rubber mould to be made.

I have asked the casting company if they will let myself cut the mould open, so that I can place the parting line of the mould exactly where I want it, hopefully to get better quality final castings. I have never done this before and know its suppose to be a bit of an artform!

Also, I am trying to get some brass/nickel chairs made that will strengthen the chair area that holds the short switch blades on the slips. I was not 100% happy as there are only 3 chairs holding each switch blade!

I have just finished building the first 'ladder crossover kit', which is a turnout and a diamond crossing as one solid base. It's a B8 and its looking great!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kiwi1941 on July 20, 2018, 12:34:08 PM
Also, I have now paid the deposit to commence tooling on the concrete sleeper, flat bottom rail bases. This tool should be completed in about 8 weeks. Anyone up for samples? :D
Yes please. I'm bored painting the webs off-white!! Brian
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on August 11, 2018, 12:43:51 AM
I have been watching the progress of this with some interest. Having built a small test layout in Peco Code 55 in May, I found it to be most unsatisfactory in appearance and in its weird practice of burying the rail in the sleeper webbing.

I had briefly considered using 2mm finescale for my main layout, but I suspect that the very large fiddle yard (http://bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/misc/Oxcott%2020C.png) that I should like to build means that it would not be optimum to have to use 2mm finescale track, as I should then have to have finescale turnouts in the fiddle yards, which is likely to be excessive, so the fiNetraX range is of great interest, as it would allow me to use Peco code 55 (or possibly even code 80 to banish that buried track nonsense) track in the fiddle yards. It would also mean not having to re-wheel every item of rolling stock on what is intended to be quite a large layout.

The era in which the N gauge layout that I am planning to build is set is the 1980s, meaning flat bottom concrete sleeper plain track and flat bottom wooden sleeper points on the main lines, with bullhead track in yards. I note with great interest the forthcoming concrete sleeper, flat bottom plain track. I also note with some disappointment that there are no current plans for wooden sleeper flat bottom turnouts (although I understand the reasons for this being the high capital cost of the tooling and the understandable need of a small business to spread such costs over a number of years).

For those wishing to model the era in which the main lines had flat bottom track and wooden sleepers on the points, may I ask whether either using the bullhead products or using the concrete sleeper turnouts but painting the bases the appropriate colour for wooden sleepers is likely to be satisfactory, or would one realistically have to self-build or persuade Keith Armes, commercial builder of 2mm finescale track, to build some wooden sleeper flat bottomed points to code 40 N gauge standards?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 13, 2018, 01:27:43 PM
Hi James,

I will be getting the first samples of the flat bottom rail, concrete sleep flexi track tomorrow, photos to follow :)

@jamespetts (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6774) - As for turnouts, would it only be the colour of the sleepers/timbers that worry you?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on August 13, 2018, 02:25:36 PM
I shall look forward to the pictures!

As to the turnouts, I am not sure whether the colour alone would be the concern, as it is difficult to judge without seeing a picture to what extent that the shape of the sleepers would be obviously specific to concrete. A plain rectangle or something close to that would probably not be a concern, but any obviously angular concave shape might be more of an issue.

One possibility if the fiNetraX flat bottom turnouts look insufficiently like wooden sleeper types even if painted might be to use fiNetraX for the main line plain track, yard track and yard points and get somebody to build flat bottom wooden sleeper turnouts - I think that I have found a track builder (other than the gentleman who specialises primarily in 2mm finescale) who will produce suitable turnouts, although I have not contacted him to confirm the details.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 13, 2018, 03:06:06 PM
Hi James,

When I do tool up for the chairs for flat bottom rail turnouts, the actual turnout base timbers will be milled from HIPS flat sheet, either light grey (for concrete representation) or black (for wood representation). Both require further painting and weathering.

So the timbers won't have concrete specific concave profiles...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on August 13, 2018, 03:13:17 PM
Hi James,

When I do tool up for the chairs for flat bottom rail turnouts, the actual turnout base timbers will be milled from HIPS flat sheet, either light grey (for concrete representation) or black (for wood representation). Both require further painting and weathering.

So the timbers won't have concrete specific concave profiles...

Ahh, in that case, the fiNetraX flatbottom turnouts may well be just the thing. I shall look forward to seeing pictures of these! I have been meaning to order a kit and some jigs to test build one or two to see whether building a large layout's worth of them is something that I should be happy to do. They do look much better than the Peco alternatives from the photographs that I have seen.

Incidentally, are you planning to have a stand at the International N Gauge Show?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ScottishModeller on August 13, 2018, 08:17:01 PM
Hi all,

I had some of the Finetrax pointwork on demonstationat St Andrews Model Railway Exhibition over the weekend.

It attracted a lot of interest and I think Wayne will find he gets a few more customers up in Scotland.

I'll be doing some more demonstations/explanations at the Dundee Model Railway Exhibition 13-14 October 2018

So - if you are interested and want to see more - come to the show!

Good to hear that the F/B stuff is coming along soon.

Must remember - Scotland for a fair time had F/B rail on Wood sleepers!

Thanks
Phil H
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on August 14, 2018, 01:10:22 AM
Phil - sadly, I am a little far from Scotland to attend a model railway exhibition in Dundee, but I am panning to go to the International N Gauge Show in September; perhaps some of the layouts there will be made using fiNetrax?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on August 14, 2018, 04:37:48 AM
As yet there are few Finetrax layouts on the exhibition circuit. Clifton & Lowther (not at TINGS) has been widely seen but offhand I don't recall any others.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on August 14, 2018, 07:42:39 AM
Hi

I will be at TINGS as one of the set crew and stewarding over the weekend and I can bring along some points to show  if interested.   I have now made 12 or so for the Warley club and myself progress in using has been slow due other projects. 

I have had some on display at the Dapol club day over the last few years and plenty of interest  and hopefully generated a few sales - we have however become a bit of a want now society - or simple skills are missing for too many that I have seen folk recoil at even filing rails - so the use of a cast crossing nose is inspired  and can be visually very effective with dummy chairs and care ful weathering.   

Certainly gets my vote for ease of building a good looking turnout.
Robert     
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on August 14, 2018, 07:56:13 AM
There's about 7 minutes coverage of Clifton & Lowther and its Finetrax trackwork at the start of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBoxYuk4blQ&t=156s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBoxYuk4blQ&t=156s)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ScottishModeller on August 14, 2018, 05:11:20 PM
i have fancied giving this a go but the point construction has always put me off.might give it a bash on a small shelf layout as a practise exercise.keep us informed :thumbsup:
Hi Will,

Come to the Dundee show and speak to me about Finetrax as I will be building some points as one ot the demonstrations over the show.

When I said 'a lot of interest' in the Finetrax stuff I had on display and demo at St Andrews Exhibition - I wasn't kidding!

Since the weekend I've had another 2 people contact me to see if I can get them started.

They have the same worries as yourself - building the points.

I can help with that and hopefully get around the worreis they have.

So - see you at Dundee?

Wayne - I think I need to put an order in again!

Thanks
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on August 14, 2018, 05:51:25 PM
good for you spreading the good word !

Hopefully concrete bearered pointwork will boost sales

Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on August 14, 2018, 06:08:12 PM
There's about 7 minutes coverage of Clifton & Lowther and its Finetrax trackwork at the start of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBoxYuk4blQ&t=156s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBoxYuk4blQ&t=156s)

Thank you for sharing that - the trackwork does look good on that layout.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardC on August 14, 2018, 07:56:32 PM
James, if you are anywhere near Nottingham you are quite welcome to take a look at my layout. Not quite finished yet, but all the track work is done
Phil - sadly, I am a little far from Scotland to attend a model railway exhibition in Dundee, but I am panning to go to the International N Gauge Show in September; perhaps some of the layouts there will be made using fiNetrax?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on August 14, 2018, 08:00:53 PM
I am in London, so a bit of a distance from Nottingham, but thank you very much for the offer.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 17, 2018, 02:33:06 PM
Hi Guys,

Good news! Tooling for the flat bottom rail, concrete sleeper flexi track is now complete and I now have samples to show :)

Below are a few pictures (DOW-MAC branded), next to the bullhead rail flexi track:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/906-170818141825-682032470.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/906-170818141825-682032385.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/906-170818141826-682381029.jpeg)

And also next to a 'concrete' milled turnout base, in the shade of grey I have choose. I have tried to match the grey as closely as possible:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/906-170818141826-68238543.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/906-170818141827-682401641.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/906-170818141827-682411122.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/906-170818141828-68242582.jpeg)

I am also working on the first 'ladder crossover' kit, which consists of a turnout and diamond as one solid base with proper shared timbers:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/906-170818141828-682431162.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/906-170818141830-682441812.jpeg)

The bases for the flat bottom concrete sleeper flexi is now in production, I should have this in stock in about a week. DOW-MAC branded sleepers will be available first, with unbranded to follow in a few weeks.

Same as the bullhead, this will be £5 per length (to make 1 yard, with 4x 457.5mm pieces of flat bottom rail). But I will be offering as in introductory price of £4.50/yard for the first 100 yards sold :)

I will be getting the order page up on the website this weekend :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Gordon D on August 17, 2018, 02:55:36 PM
Wayne,
Looking good, will have to see about placing an order over the weekend.

Question, how do you join the sections together, do you have rail joiners, or is it a case of just 'butting' then up together?

Thanks,
Gordon
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on August 17, 2018, 04:36:45 PM
That looks splendid so far. What is the ETA for the flatbottom turnouts at this stage?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 17, 2018, 06:05:15 PM
That looks splendid so far. What is the ETA for the flatbottom turnouts at this stage?

Thanks :) I am hoping to tool up for the flat bottom rail turnout chairs before the years out :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on August 17, 2018, 06:55:28 PM
Excellent!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 17, 2018, 08:14:30 PM
Question, how do you join the sections together, do you have rail joiners, or is it a case of just 'butting' then up together?

Thanks,
Gordon

At the moment just butting up and/or soldering. I do wish to get fish plates made but stamping tools are proving to cost just as much as the injection molding tools...
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on August 17, 2018, 08:29:55 PM
Corrr! That looks great. May succumb for my next layout!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ScottishModeller on August 17, 2018, 08:33:16 PM
Question, how do you join the sections together, do you have rail joiners, or is it a case of just 'butting' then up together?

Thanks,
Gordon

At the moment just butting up and/or soldering. I do wish to get fish plates made but stamping tools are proving to cost just as much as the injection molding tools...
Hi Wayne,

My track joining method is brass or copper sheet cut into 1mm strips then trimmed to 3mm length to represent the fishplates. Then used on outside of the rails - solder in place.

Essential to use a heat sink on each side of the track joint. I use copper spring clips that have been tinned with silver solder as that won't melt with the normal solder used.

Thanks
Phil H
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: littlegs on August 19, 2018, 02:59:06 PM
Wayne,
Any news on the double slips?
Regards Chris
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 22, 2018, 01:28:13 PM
Hi Chris,

Yes, mould for casting is being cut now (I tried to cut it myself but was way too difficult), just awaiting final cast samples from foundry.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kiwi1941 on August 30, 2018, 06:30:49 AM
No sign of the concrete bases on the website yet! B
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on August 30, 2018, 08:47:21 AM
LOL, yeah sorry I have it all in stock but realised that the current plain line assembly jig is no good for the concrete sleeper bases because they have narrower sleeper spacing :D

So basically the assebmly jigs for the wooden sleeper bullhead rail track won't work with the concrete sleeper track or vise versa...

I am waiting for more sheet material to mill new jigs for it, I don't want to start selling the concrete sleeper track without the appropriate jig available.

Should be up by Monday guys :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MarshLane on August 31, 2018, 04:36:14 PM
Hi All,
Can I apologise up front if there are some stupid questions below or some that have been answered previously!  I've ready the first couple of pages and the last three or four, but not the intermediate 68!

I am relatively new to N gauge and have a thread on here in the Layout Planning section with initial proposals for my new layout, which at 18' x 11' is likely to be extensive.  I have have been looking at using the Peco 55 trackwork as it seems a fairly extensive set up, but then while browsing on here, saw the advert for the Code 40 Finetrax trackwork and had a browse around the website.  Liking what I'd seen, and intrigued I discovered this thread on here.

A couple of questions, is how difficult are these to put together - do the point blades need filing and the 'vees' soldering or is that a 'pre-done' part of the kit?  I have to say the pictures above make me think this is a viable option.  I know many of us are after the most realistic trackwork about, but I tend to find there is a fine line between the best realism and smooth running!  To those that have purchase and used it, what is the view? I appreciate the owner, Wayne, posts on here, so a query for you, is if trackwork was designed using something like Templot, can that then be built with your system?  Are things like single and double-slips likely to be available soon and is there any proposal for a scissor crossover on the horizon?  Does the Flexi-track act in the same way as the Peco Flexi once built or is it stiffer/more rigid?

It strikes me that there is a reasonable 'upfront' cost for modellers to acquire the various jigs for putting things together, but for a larger layout like mine, that cost is likely to be paid back long-term?  Can the Code 40 be used with Peco Flexi-track or pointwork in the non-scenic sections like fiddle yards?

Also, given the premise of 'butting' up track with the lack of fishplates (unless I've missed something) how do people generally go about isolating the electrics of one track section from another?   

Finally, from a 'newbie' well done to Wayne for having the enthusiasm, skill, determination and focus to create something that takes on the big boys.

Richie
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Waz on August 31, 2018, 05:27:28 PM
Hi Richie,

While I am not in a position to comment on what extra is planned in the range as I am only a customer and user of the Finetrax system, I can however comment on the amount of time and still to build the points, the frogs are a casting which needs little cleaning up, the point blades do need filing but again if you have the jig then it doesn't take long with a clean file, I am not convinced of the need for the plain track jig as i never used this when assembling plain track, instead i threaded the rails through the sleepers before removing the sleepers from the molding.

The first point built took a number of hours but after the first one the rest got quicker where a point kit could be assembled start to finish in about an hour. Regarding how flexible the track is once assembles its more flexible than peco flexitrack due to the much smaller rail and thinner sleepers so you can make nice flowing curved.

With regard to using peco track for the fiddle yard yes this is more than possible, however you will need to raise the fine trax up, its also best to make a nice smooth and long transition between the two.

if you want to see a bit more have a look at the layout in my signature as this has been built with code 40 fine trax to learn a bit more about the track system.

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on August 31, 2018, 05:28:24 PM
I do not have answers to all of your questions, but I believe that some filing of point blades is involved, albeit there are jigs for this purpose: Wayne has some videos on his Youtube channel showing this process. The crossings ("vees"/frogs) do not need filing as these are cast. The turnouts come in standard geometaries, so Templot is not used; SCARM (and possibly others) has the geometary for the range and can be used for track planning with this track (and combining it with Peco code 55 where necessary, for example, to use in the fiddle yards). From what I understand, it can be combined with Peco Code 55 by using thinner cork underneath the Peco than the fiNetrax, but I have not tried this myself yet.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MarshLane on September 01, 2018, 01:14:05 AM
I can however comment on the amount of time and still to build the points, the frogs are a casting which needs little cleaning up, the point blades do need filing but again if you have the jig then it doesn't take long with a clean file, I am not convinced of the need for the plain track jig as i never used this when assembling plain track, instead i threaded the rails through the sleepers before removing the sleepers from the molding.

Was,
Many thanks for taking the time to reply. Interesting to read you comments an also follow the details on your group thread. The more I look at the fiNetrax code 40 the more impressed I become. I note that you changed one of the cast frog units for a rail frog, as did one of the contributors on your thread - belstone- and I must say they look a lot better i think. Was this a particularly hard task? I note you mention a frog soldering jig from the 2mm society - can you provide any further details?

I also like the idea of building it out of site and then replacing the outer rails to give a continuous run of track.

The first point built took a number of hours but after the first one the rest got quicker where a point kit could be assembled start to finish in about an hour. Regarding how flexible the track is once assembles its more flexible than peco flexitrack due to the much smaller rail and thinner sleepers so you can make nice flowing curved.
That gets my vote straight off! I am planning on using slow speed servos, can I ask how the tiebars go together on these point kits?

With regard to using peco track for the fiddle yard yes this is more than possible, however you will need to raise the fine trax up, its also best to make a nice smooth and long transition between the two.
Could you explain this bit further? How are you getting a long transition?

Richie
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MarshLane on September 01, 2018, 01:16:12 AM
I do not have answers to all of your questions, but I believe that some filing of point blades is involved, albeit there are jigs for this purpose: Wayne has some videos on his Youtube channel showing this process. The crossings ("vees"/frogs) do not need filing as these are cast. The turnouts come in standard geometaries, so Templot is not used; SCARM (and possibly others) has the geometary for the range and can be used for track planning with this track (and combining it with Peco code 55 where necessary, for example, to use in the fiddle yards). From what I understand, it can be combined with Peco Code 55 by using thinner cork underneath the Peco than the fiNetrax, but I have not tried this myself yet.

James,
Thanks for your input too. Iíll try and fine Wayneís YouTube channel and take a look. Interesting about SCARM. Using Code 55 in any non-scenic area and fiddle yards would seem to make sense then!

Cheers
Richie
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Waz on September 01, 2018, 05:02:04 PM
The 2mm society jig belonged to another member, but i belive its available to purchase form the 2mm society, however you probably need to be a member, the reason was the casting became damaged as we experimented with different parts of the point and as we had the jig it was quicker to make a new frog. it wasn't that hard to make, and didnt take that long either.

With regards to the tie bar its not too bad to assemble with the jig, however the 2mm approach of soldering the point blades straight to a tie bar would also work very well.

as for the transition between code 40 and code 55, you need to raise the code 40 up or lower the code 55, the easiest way to to use thinner cork under the code 55, a large section of copper clad board was fixed to the board and the code 40 and code 55 rails were soldered so they butted up to each other, and then the code 55 was filed down to match the code 40 in height. To help with alignment and also to add strength thin diameter rod was soldered to the outside of the rails across the transition between code 40 and 55.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 02, 2018, 12:01:11 PM
Hey Guys,

OK, the Concrete Sleeper Flat Bottom Rail Flexi Track is now up online and ready to order :) :
https://www.britishfinescale.com/category-s/1516.htm (https://www.britishfinescale.com/category-s/1516.htm)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/906-020918115656.jpeg)

Special price of £4.50 per yard for the first 100 yards sold :)

@NW2017 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6338) - You can use also templot to make a track plan, and you can also slightly curve the turnouts if needed.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: littlegs on September 02, 2018, 12:37:10 PM
Hi Guys.
ďWith regards to the tie bar its not too bad to assemble with the jig, however the 2mm approach of soldering the point blades straight to a tie bar would also work very well.Ē
The Easitrac point kits supplied by 2FS are virtually the same as Finetrax other than the slight difference in gauge and they use the same system for tie bars etc.
Small pieces of nickel silver strip are soldered to the rails using a jig for consistency and located in predrilled holes in the tie bar by small pins.
Cast crossing Vs and chairs with short pins fit into predrilled holes in the milled base.
Assembly is really straight forward (dress the end of the rails and thread the chairs, locate and glue to the base).
The most difficult part of  is actually filing the switch rails and soldering the dropper wires which are not really a big problem if you use one of the various jigs that are available.
Regards Chris
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Ben A on September 02, 2018, 09:58:26 PM

Hi Wayne,

Just ordered some of the concrete sleeper track but couldn't find where to order the concrete-based turnouts.  Am I being an idiot?  Are they on sale yet?

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Gordon D on September 02, 2018, 10:19:11 PM
Ben,
In post 1100, Wayne advised in an earlier post he hopes to have concrete based points before the end of the year.

So currently you are unable to order them.

Regards,
Gordon
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on September 05, 2018, 03:46:27 PM
Hi gang !
- I wonder what the collective welcome is for code 40 track users is?

Well Wayne has delivered ! the code 40 FB conc sleepered track is here and now had a chance to look at - fine sleepers with a hint of Dowmac and neat functional clips to hold rail.

Unkind trials of twisting a 500 mm length failed to unfix rail and it re sat level again afterwards - a good test I think of strength.  Colour is of recent concrete but as older sleepers often had a yellower coluour a waft of spray an idea.
 https://www.britishfinescale.com (https://www.britishfinescale.com)
The jig seems a good idea as well
website https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/plainline-assembly-jig.htm (https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/plainline-assembly-jig.htm)

With points to follow shortly it should be possible to model the most modern of railways with a fine looking track - certainly sets standards bar high.
No business connection just a happy customer .Thanks Wayne !
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on September 09, 2018, 01:29:59 AM
I saw some of the concrete sleepered track and bullhead turnouts on display at the N gauge show this afternoon (on the "DEMU" stand - the chap there also gave some very helpful tips about applying Electra Rail Graphics transfers to carriages), and it does look rather good - more similar to the 2mm finescale track than to the Peco code 55 track. The 2mm finescale track's more accurate spacing does make it look better still - but at the cost of having to re-wheel all stock and the inability to use Peco track in the fiddleyards.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on September 12, 2018, 07:38:57 PM
A question to Wayne about the flat bottom turnouts, if I may: do I understand that these will have a slightly different geometary to the bullhead turnouts? If so, have you any suggestions as to how I might integrate them into my track planning at this stage as SCARM does not yet have the geometary for them as part of its library (although it does have the British Finescale bullhead turnouts)?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Gordon D on September 12, 2018, 09:56:38 PM
jamespetts,
"The 2mm finescale track's more accurate spacing does make it look better still - but at the cost of having to re-wheel all stock and the inability to use Peco track in the fiddleyards.

Did you look at the Atlantic Road layout?, that uses 2mm finescale (easitrac) in the scenic area and code 80 in the fiddle yard, and the stock was standard latest Farish items - so it can be done.

I have also experimented using easitrac and code 55. You will have to pack up the easitrac to be same height as code 55 and close up the width of the easitrac to that of the code 55 - we are only talking about 0.6mm.
I used the baseboard joint to change from easitrac to code 55. The rails were soldered to small brass screws which allowed me to get the height and width correct.

Hope this helps.

Gordon_D     



 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on September 12, 2018, 09:59:43 PM
You can use Easitrac plain track, but not 2mm finescale points without rewheeling, at which point you can't use n gauge track. You can obviously combine Easitrack with handbuilt points to N gauge standards (or just use Finetrax).

Does Atlantic Road have points on the scenic side, I genuinely can't remember? Good layout though, lots of interesting stock.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on September 12, 2018, 10:11:56 PM
I did look at Atlantic Road - it was a good layout (the track looked noticeably better than the Peco Code 55), but it had no points in the scenic section, so it is not an entirely on point comparator (if you will excuse the pun, which I must confess was entirely unintended).
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on September 12, 2018, 10:27:30 PM
It's almost impossible to tell plain Easitrac and Finetrax apart especially at normal layout viewing angles, the difference in gauge being less than 5% rather than 14% between OO and P4. So the main justification for using the former would be not looks but the ability to run a mix of N and 2mmFS stock. I assume Atlantic Road uses a traverser backstage. 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Gordon D on September 12, 2018, 10:44:49 PM
" I assume Atlantic Road uses a traverser backstage."

Nope, as I said it uses code 80 track work and points, in fact some of the track work is set track.

The point where it changed from peco (code 80) to Easitrac was covered up, so I couldn't see how he had done it.

Regards,

Gordon_D.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on September 13, 2018, 12:12:32 AM
Ah yes, I had a different layout in mind that was running both N and finescale over the same track. I assume that Atlantic Road is running N Gauge stock only and as there is no point work onstage it uses Easitrac plain track in the visible areas for its improved appearance.   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on September 13, 2018, 06:35:45 AM
Yep, which was my point. I agree that thereís no real reason to use Easitrac over Finetrax for plain track. Itís virtually indistinguishable to most. 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 13, 2018, 10:37:07 AM
A question to Wayne about the flat bottom turnouts, if I may: do I understand that these will have a slightly different geometary to the bullhead turnouts? If so, have you any suggestions as to how I might integrate them into my track planning at this stage as SCARM does not yet have the geometary for them as part of its library (although it does have the British Finescale bullhead turnouts)?

Hi James,

The flat bottom turnouts will initially share the same geometry as the bullhead turnouts. I understand that this is prototypically incorrect, but it will allow for a range of turnouts to be released quickly, and I can then work on adding flat bottom specific geometries as the range increases.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on September 13, 2018, 12:01:28 PM
A question to Wayne about the flat bottom turnouts, if I may: do I understand that these will have a slightly different geometary to the bullhead turnouts? If so, have you any suggestions as to how I might integrate them into my track planning at this stage as SCARM does not yet have the geometary for them as part of its library (although it does have the British Finescale bullhead turnouts)?

Hi James,

The flat bottom turnouts will initially share the same geometry as the bullhead turnouts. I understand that this is prototypically incorrect, but it will allow for a range of turnouts to be released quickly, and I can then work on adding flat bottom specific geometries as the range increases.

Splendid, thank you for the clarification.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on September 13, 2018, 12:11:47 PM
Hi Wayne

Thanks for all the work you're doing on this - I look forward to being able to order some correct geometry FB points in the future.  That will really be a step forward for N gauge track accuracy.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on September 13, 2018, 12:41:15 PM
Out of interest, what exactly is the difference in geometary? I am aware that it is different, but I am having trouble finding information on this easily.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 13, 2018, 01:39:09 PM
Out of interest, what exactly is the difference in geometary? I am aware that it is different, but I am having trouble finding information on this easily.

That's my problem at the moment ..LOL
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on September 13, 2018, 02:33:47 PM
The geometry is very different as well as some of the components eg the check rails are different/adjustment switches may be necessary - IIRC Templot should do it. Have a look at Colin Craig's website - Colin also sells paper templates for 4mm that he may be able to scale to N eg http://colincraig4mm.co.uk/templates/4532603468 (http://colincraig4mm.co.uk/templates/4532603468)

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on September 13, 2018, 03:28:52 PM
Templot definitely does FB geometry - the turnouts are often longer too. I still long for some lovely sweeping crossovers in N! I echo Mike's thoughts that this is a big leap forward though!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 13, 2018, 03:36:08 PM
Thanks for the info, guys :)

I use templot to generate the current bullhead turnout bases, if I can find the correct settings for flat bottom then I can make a prototype. I am 3D printing some chairs for testing before committing to tooling, so if we can all work together on discussing the design then we can make this possible :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on September 13, 2018, 03:50:53 PM
There were ways of getting it to show FB rail (a check box for "show rail foot" IIRC), and you want things like tapered checkrails not 'bent' ones, which I'm pretty sure is not the technical term  :-[

I've not looked at Templot for a few months, but I certainly had it all set up for FB geometry.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on September 13, 2018, 03:59:28 PM
If it helps find things in Templot then some small FB geometries are: AV7, AV8, AV9.25, and AV9.25 transition.
BV8, BV9.25, and BV9.25 transition

Be warned that FB turnouts can be much larger than BH, particularly when you get to some higher speed S&C!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MarshLane on September 13, 2018, 10:16:53 PM
@NW2017 ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6338[/url]) - You can use also templot to make a track plan, and you can also slightly curve the turnouts if needed.


Hi Wayne,
Sorry for the delay in replying - work and family life has taken over.  Thanks for that.  You say you can slightly curve, is there a limit (either physical or advisory)?

Im getting more and more keen to have go with this system :)

Rich
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: sp1 on September 13, 2018, 11:19:53 PM
Thanks for the info, guys :)

I use templot to generate the current bullhead turnout bases, if I can find the correct settings for flat bottom then I can make a prototype. I am 3D printing some chairs for testing before committing to tooling, so if we can all work together on discussing the design then we can make this possible :)
Why not simply ask Martin Wynn on the Templot Forum, or post something -shock horror! - on RMWeb in the track building section as I know from experience he monitors it and responds very quickly.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 14, 2018, 10:10:06 AM
Hi Wayne,
Sorry for the delay in replying - work and family life has taken over.  Thanks for that.  You say you can slightly curve, is there a limit (either physical or advisory)?

Im getting more and more keen to have go with this system :)

Rich

Only very gentle curves, like matching a crossover to a sweeping curve...

Why not simply ask Martin Wynn on the Templot Forum, or post something -shock horror! - on RMWeb in the track building section as I know from experience he monitors it and responds very quickly.

Good idea, thanks :)

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 14, 2018, 11:01:45 AM
Hi Guys,

Work continues on the slip kits. As I have previously mentioned, I have had trouble with finding a good casting service since the ones I was using (Just Like the Real Thing) packed up back in April.

I have tried 4 different 'casters', with varying results.

I have also come to the conclusion that the casting is only as good as the wax that is invested and knew that this was part of the problem. I needed to make sure that the rubber moulds had the parting line in exactly the right place to avoid undercuts so the wax pattern will come out cleanly.

All moulds so far have been made and cut by the casters. I knew its a skilled job but the fact is these parts are tiny and no matter how skilled they are, they won't spend as much time carefully cutting the mould as I would.

The only way of really achieving this was to make the moulds myself and cut the parting line where I wanted it.

So I have gone about making my first mould. I had to invest in a vacuum chamber and pump to degass the rubber, but the moulds would be a lot cheaper thereafter.

I thought it would be nice to share the process, below shows the steps involved to make a 4 impression mould of the K crossing for the slip kit:

Firstly, the part is designed in CAD, Solidworks in this case. I had to add little recesses as clearence for neighboring rail chairs.:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918102941-690171536.jpeg)(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918102828-68995281.jpeg)


Then I design a sprue of 4off in the CAD software:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918102840-690131590.jpeg)


I then send the part file off to be 3D printed in wax:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918102852-69014338.jpeg)


I paint the part with mould released and allow to dry fully:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918102905-690151859.jpeg)


I then attach the sprue end to the gate and sprue cone. This is surrounded by a lego box which will form the mould.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918102917-69016776.jpeg)


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918102934-690171188.jpeg)(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918102947-690181823.jpeg)


I mix up some clear silicone rubber and degass (remove all air bubbles) in my vacuum chamber. I then slowly pure the rubber into the lego mould frame which slowly engulfs the part. I then add more lego bricks to create a high wall so I can degass further in the vacuum chamber without the rubber going everywhere as it expands and foams as you degass.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918102955-690201395.jpeg)


The rubber is then left to set on a level surface overnight:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918103000-690201459.jpeg)(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918103008-690222114.jpeg)


Once the rubber is set, I can remove the mould frame and begin cutting the mould. Its important to cut in 'waves' to create registration details so that the 2 mould halfs perfectly align back up again. Bellow I had already made a start cutting. I can pick out bits of the wax master pattern as I go to make it easier:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918103012-690222162.jpeg)


And once finished:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918103018-69024485.jpeg)(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918103029-690252186.jpeg)

And the 2 halves:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918103023-690241886.jpeg)


I am quite proud of myself as this is my first ever mould :) I received the 3D printed wax master yesterday and set the mould, and then cut the mould this morning.

I will now send the mould off to my chosen 'caster' and see what the results are. I'm hoping this will now work fine and I can finally get the slip kits released!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on September 14, 2018, 11:05:09 AM
That's really cool!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: red_death on September 14, 2018, 11:21:42 AM
Hi Wayne

That's interesting to see how it is done with wax.  Is there a reason you need to print in wax rather than say another material for the master to make the mould?

For the mould rather than making a single piece mould and cutting it, it might be easier to create a 2 part mould - that way you can use lego as a positive and negative for each half of the mould which would keep your registration and save you having to accurately cut the mould apart.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 14, 2018, 11:39:36 AM
Thanks Mike.

The 3D wax printer results in the highest quality and sharpest model, it's the best quality compared to anything else I've seen or tried. So yeah, its basically to give me the highest quality master possible. Also the fact that its wax leads itself to releasing from the mould.

I had been looking into making 2 part moulds for the last 2 weeks and decided against it for a couple of reason. The usual technique is to use clay against your master to form the parting line, make dimples in it to form the registration marks and pour the first half. Once set remove clay and pure second half.

The issue here is that the wax master is far to small and brittle to do this. If its not hard enough to get the clay accurately around the master, then it will just break from being brittle anyway.

I then had the idea of 3D printing 2 masters, one with the parting line actually modeled into the part like this:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/906-140918113142.jpeg)

This would be use to pure the first half of the mould. Once set I would replace this with a normal master for the second half pour. The issue here is I can't print in the wax material as it would break when trying to insert back into the mould for the second half. I was going to try Shapeways frosted extreme detail but even then the quality is not as sharp and clean as the wax print and issues with the silicone sticking to it (I just wasted £45 on getting a mould make with Frosted Extreme Detail).

Also there would be inaccuracies when replacing with the normal master before pouring the second half. There is a chance that it will not sit accurately into the impression and there be micro gaps along the first half parting line.

I still don't believe this would give you as sharp a parting line as compared to cutting a 1 piece mould. So I choose the above path as I beleive it results in the highest possible quality mould.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on September 14, 2018, 12:42:18 PM
I think that it is rather splendid that you are using Lego as part of a serious commercial manufacturing process.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 14, 2018, 12:51:10 PM
I think that it is rather splendid that you are using Lego as part of a serious commercial manufacturing process.

LOL...It's suprising how perfect they are for the job, although my son's not happy....:)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MarshLane on September 16, 2018, 12:08:01 AM
Hi Wayne,
Sorry for the delay in replying - work and family life has taken over.  Thanks for that.  You say you can slightly curve, is there a limit (either physical or advisory)?

Im getting more and more keen to have go with this system :)

Rich

Only very gentle curves, like matching a crossover to a sweeping curve...

Wayne,
Thanks for the reply. I may have missed this earlier on,  it when you expect the single and double slips to become available, and would it be feasible to use the elements of a diamond crossing kit, with a couple of crossover kits to create a scissor crossover with your system?

Rich
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 16, 2018, 09:51:02 AM
Hi Rich,

I've sent this mould I made to the 'caster', so he will now cast some samples for me. This will take about 10 days. Once I am happy with them I will order more, finish the instructions and release the kit. My guess at this stage is November, I go on holiday soon and would rather release it when I return and not just before I go.

You won't be able to use the current diamond kits to make a scissor crossover as they are not the correct angle. I am working on a 1:6 scissor crossover though:
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

I just need to confirm the quality of the castings and then progress on all this can move forward.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ten0G on September 16, 2018, 05:55:22 PM
You won't be able to use the current diamond kits to make a scissor crossover as they are not the correct angle. I am working on a 1:6 scissor crossover though

Hi Wayne,

That looks very nice, thanks. 

A quick question if I may please, does the scissors correspond to a standard crossover in terms of length and radii?  Thanks. 

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on September 17, 2018, 07:45:40 AM
Yes, the above design uses 4x B6 turnouts and a 1in3 diamond.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on October 06, 2018, 03:36:06 PM
Hi
Well got funds to buy some concrete track and jig , so hopefully some fun to be had. In a short while - thanks Wayne!
points are looking good.

Robert 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 06, 2018, 09:02:53 PM
Thanks Robert, will get that posted out Monday morning :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on October 07, 2018, 11:37:42 AM
Hi @Wayne Kinney (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=906)
I'm not sure if this has been asked before, and apologies for not bothering to go back through the 77 page thread... but what chance is there of a three-way point? Its certainly not a forthcoming product on the website? Just thought I'd ask.

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 07, 2018, 11:50:12 AM
Hi Kirky,

It's a kit that I've been wanting to make, certainly simpler than this double slip kit..LOL

Once I get the slip kits done, I will be working on completing the crossovers and diamonds. Then I can tackle a 3 way and the scissor crossover.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: kirky on October 07, 2018, 11:53:47 AM
Oh wow. Thank you so much for that Wayne. That really is great news.

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ten0G on October 07, 2018, 12:46:44 PM
Hi Kirky,

It's a kit that I've been wanting to make, certainly simpler than this double slip kit..LOL

Once I get the slip kits done, I will be working on completing the crossovers and diamonds. Then I can tackle a 3 way and the scissor crossover.

Hi Wayne,

The 3-way could be very useful for improving my layout plans, can you please give a bit more info like symmetrical/asymmetrical, length and radii please?  Thank you. 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EastMidsCoal on October 17, 2018, 01:51:07 PM
Hi Wayne,
The 3-way could be very useful for improving my layout plans, can you please give a bit more info like symmetrical/asymmetrical, length and radii please?  Thank you.

I'd echo that request Wayne.  Also, does any one know what the Peco Code 55 points work out at in terms of A5, B6. C9 etc.sizes?  I am trying to plan things out using paper templates for part of the layout and want to ensure that I am like for like or at least allowing enough space.

Richard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on October 17, 2018, 02:16:02 PM
I've got in my mind that B7 is about the same as a Peco large point, but you know you can get paper templates of both on their respective websites, so no reason to guess.

Both libraries are in Anyrail too.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EastMidsCoal on October 17, 2018, 03:41:12 PM
Well of course I knew that ... I was obviously just waiting to see how long it took somebody to point it out :)  :D :D

 :thankyousign: Knew the Peco ones had printable templates, but had totally forgotten the fiNetraX ones did too :)  :beers:  Well done that man :)

Cheers
Richard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on October 17, 2018, 03:45:03 PM
If it helps, SCARM (and I think some other competing software products) have current fiNetrax turnouts in their libraries.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on October 17, 2018, 04:41:00 PM
Yep - Anyrail does too as I said.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EastMidsCoal on October 17, 2018, 07:59:37 PM
Thanks guys,
The appropriate paper templates have now been downloaded from the fiNetraX website and printed.  Time to go playing point chess on the baseboards, and make sure that what I have in Templot actually works!  Then I can spend some money with Wayne!

Can I just confirm, the 2mm Finescale Easitrack flexible track is Code 40 too, and that can be used (without changing wheel sets) alongside the pointwork from fiNetraX?

Richard
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on October 17, 2018, 08:05:20 PM
Thanks guys,
The appropriate paper templates have now been downloaded from the fiNetraX website and printed.  Time to go playing point chess on the baseboards, and make sure that what I have in Templot actually works!  Then I can spend some money with Wayne!

Can I just confirm, the 2mm Finescale Easitrack flexible track is Code 40 too, and that can be used (without changing wheel sets) alongside the pointwork from fiNetraX?

Richard

I am not sure how representative that it is, but I have found that the 2mm finescale track at the Model Railway Club's test tracks, whilst it works with no problem with modern Farish N gauge rolling stock, sometimes has trouble with modern Dapol N gauge rolling stock, so if you are planning to run any Dapol stock, you might want to check this.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on October 17, 2018, 08:10:21 PM
Thatís weird, what happens? The wheels catch the chairs?

Easitrac is just code 40 rail, so if Dapol wheelsets are problematic on Easitrac plain line then they Iíd expect problems with Finetrax too.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on October 17, 2018, 08:22:59 PM
Thatís weird, what happens? The wheels catch the chairs?

Easitrac is just code 40 rail, so if Dapol wheelsets are problematic on Easitrac plain line then they Iíd expect problems with Finetrax too.

My class 56 would sometimes fall between the pairs of rails, and an HST would derail at a joint. Note that the MRC's 2mm finescale track on the test tracks is not Easitrac but hand built track with soldered brass sleepers, so I can only assess the effect of the gauge, not the chairs, etc..
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on October 17, 2018, 08:27:24 PM
I imagine that Finetrax turnouts can be made to work with Easitrac plain track, but accommodating the gauge difference at every junction of the two will be a PITA especially if you follow best practice by staggering rail joints. If I had to combine the two I would plan to build all complex trackwork areas entirely in Finetrax.   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on October 17, 2018, 08:46:54 PM
I agree thereís no real reason to use Easitrac, but at 0.42mm difference in gauge Iíd not expect any real issues at joints.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MarshLane on October 17, 2018, 09:24:25 PM
Thats all interesting comments guys. Iíll be honest and say I was looking at doing the same and using the Easitrack for metre-lengths because of the cost. Unless Iíve sorted it out wrong. 5 metres of fiNetraX worked out at £25, where as Easitrack was £18. Given the amount I want that difference ends up being substantial, as much as I want to support Wayne with what heís doing.

Also thought Iíd read somewhere that Easitrack and fiNetraX were compatible and the same gauge? I could be wrong with that tho.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on October 17, 2018, 10:07:06 PM
Thatís just the price of the sleepers - you need the rail too. Itís virtually the same price.

Like I say, a 0.42mm difference In gauge shouldnít make joining difficult at all, but I admit Iíve not tried.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on October 20, 2018, 08:09:29 PM
 :thankyousign: to Wayne,
Last week built a couple of metres of the concrete flat bottom using the FB jig - a pleasureable couple of hours produced 500mm lengths of lovely track - laid flat no twists.

I did find it worth checking the alignment of the sleeper units in the jig to get rails to slide in easily - works of seconds and with a drop of peco electrolube - as it was to hand to lubricate rail foot - carefully filed to have a a rounded and narrowed foot with no burrs on top of foot all was good .

This new release highly recommended for a good looking modern track.

Just need to find excuse to build a diorama to use some.  some will be wagon loads on salmons bought at Dapol open day - er thanks Tim !
Robert
   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: EastMidsCoal on October 22, 2018, 11:35:42 AM
Thatís just the price of the sleepers - you need the rail too. Itís virtually the same price.

Like I say, a 0.42mm difference In gauge shouldnít make joining difficult at all, but I admit Iíve not tried.

Thanks for that - Id forgotten the rail aspect!  Still haven't managed to find the time to get my point order into Wayne!  Really need to try and do it this week.  Thanks all for the feedback.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: John Mac on October 27, 2018, 01:46:03 PM
Thatís just the price of the sleepers - you need the rail too. Itís virtually the same price.

Like I say, a 0.42mm difference In gauge shouldnít make joining difficult at all, but I admit Iíve not tried.

I've used Finetrax turnouts with Easitrack concrete sleepered track (because there was no Finetrax concrete sleepered track at the time). With some careful use of the Dremel to smooth the difference in gauge it works fine and looks great.

John.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 29, 2018, 02:43:19 PM
Hi Guys,

I am now back from Holiday and all refreshed ready to continue development. I will crack on this week with the instructions sheet/assembly diagram for the single/double slip so I can finally get this released.

I also have my own brand solvent applicator being released in November, cheaper than the 'other' brand.

:thankyousign: to Wayne,
Last week built a couple of metres of the concrete flat bottom using the FB jig - a pleasureable couple of hours produced 500mm lengths of lovely track - laid flat no twists.

I did find it worth checking the alignment of the sleeper units in the jig to get rails to slide in easily - works of seconds and with a drop of peco electrolube - as it was to hand to lubricate rail foot - carefully filed to have a a rounded and narrowed foot with no burrs on top of foot all was good .

This new release highly recommended for a good looking modern track.

Just need to find excuse to build a diorama to use some.  some will be wagon loads on salmons bought at Dapol open day - er thanks Tim !
Robert
   

Thanks for posting, glad you like the product! Please feel free to share pictures! :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on October 29, 2018, 03:20:59 PM
Splendid! I hope that the flat bottom turnouts are progressing well?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on October 29, 2018, 03:48:55 PM
Splendid! I hope that the flat bottom turnouts are progressing well?

Hope to have a prototype to show next month :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on October 29, 2018, 04:39:00 PM
Excellent!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: PRB on November 14, 2018, 02:56:41 PM
Hi Wayne,
just spent a few hours putting some lengths of track together ~  and I'm very pleased with how it looks too.
I haven't made any efforts to solder dropper wires to the rail yet in case the heat fries the track base so I thought I'd ask you how you go about connecting up the various lengths yourself. I thought I read on one of these pages that you might be making fish plates at some future date ~ was I imagining things ?? ( only they seem quite rare for code 40 rail here although I believe they can be obtained from America ).

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 18, 2018, 02:35:29 PM
Hi Paul,

I have been soldering droppers to the underside of each rail length before threading into the plastic bases as they do melt easily. Yes I did mention fish plates but I've not manage to get these manufactured and not sure if it will be possible due to the tiny size. The code 40 fish plates from the US are for flat bottom rail.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 18, 2018, 02:39:25 PM
Hi Guys,

I was planning on getting the slip kits released this month, but after a long look at the kit I am still not happy with it, so I am changing the design a little again, sorry. I just want to be 100% happy. This will be the 4th revision of the moulds, its costing me a fortune..LOL

So I have changed the design of the 'K Crossing' castings so they are not as delicate and more 'castable'. I am also getting brass chairs made to hold the switch rails for extra strength.

Hopefully have this revision built up by the end of this month, I'll post photos once done.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: PRB on November 18, 2018, 04:45:51 PM
Hi Paul,

I have been soldering droppers to the underside of each rail length before threading into the plastic bases etc

thanks for that Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on November 28, 2018, 01:23:33 PM
Hi Guys,

A quick update :) I apologise now, as 'rant' mode is switched on..LOL

Still I have no slip kits released - why? Itís all down to headaches with suppliers. I have finally sorted the issue with the rail supplier (wiring drawing company) that put the price up nearly 4x times for the rail back in March. I have managed to strike a deal with them but need to buy larger qty.

I previously mentioned that I had to find a new supplier of the cast frogs. This has been an absolute PAIN! To this day I am still not happy. The one supplier/caster/foundry (out of 4) that has acceptable qty is, to put it mildly, unreliable and very hard to get in contact with. His castings are great but he keeps going awol which is driving me MAD!

The other 3 casters Ďunacceptable qualityí is down to when they inject wax into the rubber moulds, so they end up with a bad wax pattern and therefore bad final metal casting. All of them have cast perfectly from 3D printed waxes, so if they have a good wax pattern, they have no problems casting.

So since march, I decided that I was going to make my own rubber moulds, so I can fully control where the parting line is on the 2 mould halves, increasing the chance of a good wax. I invested in a Vacuum pump and chamber to make really good silicone moulds. This has worked great you can see my moulds here on a previous post:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=3280.msg528489#msg528489 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=3280.msg528489#msg528489)

However, they still canít get good waxes. I just donít think they have the time to make sure itís a good wax. I have been very frustrated over the last 6 months with this. Last week I purchased a 3D resin printer (Anycubic Photon) with the intention of 3D printing the patterns in castable wax, so I would not need to use rubber moulds. Unfortunately the machine was not quite up to the quality needed so I sent it back.

Now today (about an hour ago) I have just invested £425 in a new vacuum wax injector, compressor and vacuum pump so I can inject the wax into my rubber moulds myself, insuring a high quality wax pattern that I can send to ANY of the casters/foundry. I just hope this works as Iíve never used one before.

So yes, itís been the right pain in the a**e process of sorting out the productions of the castings that has slowed my progress this year. Because I have had 4 design revisions of the slip kits, each revision is taking months because of the hiccups in the production line/suppliers...GGRRR

Just waiting on some pipes/valves and joiners to connect all this wax injector up and give it a try. Please wish me all luck! :)



Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on November 28, 2018, 01:41:37 PM
Sorry that you are having such trouble: it is good to understand the reason the delays in detail. Very best wishes for making good progress. I shall look forward very much to the flat bottom turnouts.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on November 28, 2018, 09:05:57 PM
Wayne,
Thanks for heart felt update - so many areas of strife - thanks for persevering.

I am sure your determination will win through - you display many more skills than I , but I look forward to putting hand in pocket.

The single slip will help many and looks a "fun" build, so have fun and it will all work in the end.. I am sure

Robert   
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 02, 2018, 10:27:06 AM
Hi Guys,

OK more of a positive post this time..LOL

Managed to get the new wax injector, compressor and vaccum pump all hooked up and working Friday evening. I can happily say that this machine works an absolute bloody treat! :D This is the machine here:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/906-021218094430.jpeg)

The waxes are coming out perfectly, I am very happy. Here are a few pics:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/906-021218102253-720451842.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/906-021218102253-720441793.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/906-021218102251-719961843.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/906-021218102251-71996750.jpeg)

I now have the confidence to push forward with the project. I will now order 'revision 4' master patterns of the two 'K crossings' for the slips, should get these by Wednesday. I can then make two new moulds, shoot some waxes and then send them to all 5 of the suppliers/casters/foundry's (I'm not sure what to call them..LOL).

Hoping to have final slip kit finished at least to a final prototype, with photos before Christmas.

Feeling much more enthusiastic and pumped now :D
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on December 02, 2018, 07:08:11 PM
Waynne,
The big blue gizmo delivers - looking really good, I suspect the collective noun your looking for  is rogue !  "A rogue of casters " ..... as in a "felony of judges!"

hope all works for you and cashflow works well.   
As an aside I was at Manchester show and Hallam Town the 2mmFS layout doing a good trade - a visitor helpfully said it is N gauge you can tell by the fine track! Not sure if the builder heard it but I did smile ..     
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on December 28, 2018, 11:07:20 AM
Hi Guys,

Hope you've all had a great xmas!

Since my last post, I have made moulds of the K crossings (there are two types) and sent waxes to one of the 'Rogue's' (casters).

I am not 100% happy with the quality, so instead sending waxes to one of the other casters. Just basically trying to find the best supplier.

In the meantime, I have been working on other kits, all the standard crossover's from A5 to C10 are now complete and will be addded to the website on my return from my xmas break in Belgium next week.

I have also finished desiging a 1in8 diamond (updated), 1in8 single & double slip. This can be released (along with the 1in6 slips) as soon as I have decided on my chosen caster.

The first ladder crossover (a turnout and a diamond crossing as one solid base) is finished and built ready to take photo's for the website.

I have finished the design on the 1in5 diamond crossing (still need to work on 1in7, 1in9 & 1in10 diamonds).

I have also designed a B7 3 way tandem turnout which needs a new casting produced, but here is the design so far:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/906-281218110405.jpeg)

Hoping to get all of the above released in January, as all of the hard work is complete :)

Happy New Year Everyone!!!


Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: littlegs on December 30, 2018, 07:47:54 PM
Wow !!!
Wayne you have been a busy little beaver
Well done :claphappy:
Chris
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on December 30, 2018, 08:20:54 PM
 :thankyousign:

Looking really good and hope the rogues come good in the end.

Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 08, 2019, 02:13:19 PM
Hi Guys,

Finished designing the cast crossing frog for the 3 way tandem turnout kit, now to get it 3D printed:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/906-080119141012.jpeg)


I've also sent 1in6 slip kit waxes to another casting supplier, should see results in a week.

#feelingmotivated :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ScottishModeller on January 08, 2019, 02:52:44 PM
Hi Guys,

Finished designing the cast crossing frog for the 3 way tandem turnout kit, now to get it 3D printed:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/906-080119141012.jpeg)


I've also sent 1in6 slip kit waxes to another casting supplier, should see results in a week.

#feelingmotivated :)
Hi Wayne,

Good to see you are continuing to develop the range - looks like a lot more people will become interested.

Now - just have to wait for Flat Bottom rail stuff to appear - for me that is!

Thanks
Phil H
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: cutting42 on January 08, 2019, 03:38:37 PM
Thanks for the update, another here awaiting flat bottom concrete turnouts.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 08, 2019, 04:46:54 PM
Thanks for the update, another here awaiting flat bottom concrete turnouts.

This does require a few thousand pounds worth of tooling, so will take a few months before I can invest in this.

I did get some prototype chairs for flat bottom rail 3D printed, but were slightly undersized so keep breaking as the 3D printed material is very brittle. Will have another attempt. :)

EDIT: The above comment is just for prototyping purposes, I won't use 3D printed chairs for the actual kits - just to be clear ;)

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ScottishModeller on January 08, 2019, 07:52:40 PM
Thanks for the update, another here awaiting flat bottom concrete turnouts.

This does require a few thousand pounds worth of tooling, so will take a few months before I can invest in this.

I did get some prototype chairs for flat bottom rail 3D printed, but were slightly undersized so keep breaking as the 3D printed material is very brittle. Will have another attempt. :)

EDIT: The above comment is just for prototyping purposes, I won't use 3D printed chairs for the actual kits - just to be clear ;)
Hi Wayne,

Yes - Understand about the need to invest in the FB stuff - not unexpected.

If you need drawings, let me know as somewhere I have a whole disk with the complete specs and drawings.

Then I need to be awkward as I want FB rail on wood sleepers ???

Thanks
Phil H
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on January 08, 2019, 09:57:32 PM
Thanks for the update, another here awaiting flat bottom concrete turnouts.

This does require a few thousand pounds worth of tooling, so will take a few months before I can invest in this.

Can I clarify - does this apply also to the flat bottom wooden sleeper turnouts?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 09, 2019, 11:45:13 AM
Hi James,

Yes, the chairs that need tooling for to hold flat bottom rail.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on January 09, 2019, 11:52:25 AM
Thank you for clarifying. I shall look forward to these.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: cutting42 on January 11, 2019, 10:25:26 AM
Thanks for the update, another here awaiting flat bottom concrete turnouts.

This does require a few thousand pounds worth of tooling, so will take a few months before I can invest in this.


No problem, I am happy racing RC cars while I wait!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on January 14, 2019, 11:51:08 AM
I've just acquired a copy of "Track; how it works and how to model it" by the 2MM Association and for GBP20 I don't think I've had better value from any model railway book. Although focused on 2mm finescale, it's an absolute goldmine for tips and techniques applicable to Finetrax, which as most will know is derived from the 2MM Easitrac system. If you are committing to a Finetrax layout I'd highly recommend it. Available to non-members here:

http://www.2mm.org.uk/products/nms/ (http://www.2mm.org.uk/products/nms/) 


Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on January 14, 2019, 11:54:07 AM
I have also obtained that book in the last week, and can attest to the fact it's very interesting!
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 14, 2019, 01:02:20 PM
Thanks for the recommendation, I've had this book for years and can also highly recommend it. It's very well written and highly picture based which makes the techniques described easy to absorb.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 15, 2019, 02:28:26 PM
Hi Guys :)

I've got new kits online, 'B6 crossover' & 'B7 Y Point turnout'. Should get the rest of the crossover kits up by the end of the week.

I've received the master 3D printed patterns for the B7 '3 way' turnout and also the K crossing for the 1in5 diamond. Will be making moulds for these tomorrow/Thursday.

I should receive cast K crossing samples for the slips this week, I'll take some photo's as soon as they come in :)

I have also lowered some of my prices. Standard turnouts are now £14.99 each (were £16.50), diamond crossings are now £17.99 (were £18.50), and standard crossovers now £24.99 (were £29).

I've also lowered all jigs from £4.99 to £3.99 :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Stuart The Bass on January 27, 2019, 08:17:22 AM
Hi Wayne,  looking forward to the slips as I need at least one single slip. Am new to N gauge and like the look of the finetrax point kits. Am planning to build my layout with your system.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 27, 2019, 10:18:13 AM
Hi Stuart,

The final K crossing castings for the slips (both single and double) arrived Friday, and they are very nice indeed. Just finishing instructions now :)

PM me if you wish to try out a single slip kit before it's released :)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on January 30, 2019, 09:26:47 AM
Thanks for the PM's, guys! I've got 3 'BETA' testers for the slip kits, 1 will build a double slip, the other 2 a single slip.

They have kindly agreed to post photo's of the build on here :) I will do the same also, with a double slip.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: JosephP on January 30, 2019, 11:59:09 AM
Great news, Wayne. You now have (or will have very shortly) everything I need for my project. Not sure still that I have the dexterity necessary for me to assemble the kits.

Anyone here care to quote a price to build some for me?
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ten0G on February 12, 2019, 09:41:44 AM
Great news, Wayne. You now have (or will have very shortly) everything I need for my project. Not sure still that I have the dexterity necessary for me to assemble the kits.

Anyone here care to quote a price to build some for me?

I too am concerned that I'll have the ability now either, let alone the facilities.  Quotes would definitely be appreciated, please. 
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Southernboy on February 12, 2019, 09:33:08 PM
I'm trying to find dimensions of fiNetrax turnouts and crossovers but couldn't see anything on the website - can anyone point me in the right direction please? (Sorry, it's probably obvious and I've gone blind!)

Similarly - I also wondered if there are any plans for curved points? (I did skim-read this thread but at 81 pages may have missed something).

Thanks in advance!

Mark

Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: nookfield on February 12, 2019, 10:05:14 PM
I'm trying to find dimensions of fiNetrax turnouts and crossovers but couldn't see anything on the website - can anyone point me in the right direction please? (Sorry, it's probably obvious and I've gone blind!)

On each turnout page there is a tab "Download Instructions & Printable Template" under this tab is a
printable template
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on February 12, 2019, 11:50:39 PM
Apparently it's possible to gently curve the turnouts by cutting the webbing.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: ScottishModeller on February 13, 2019, 07:55:03 AM
Apparently it's possible to gently curve the turnouts by cutting the webbing.
Hi all,

Yes - it is possible to form a curved point by cutting the webbing off the base.

This is not for the faint hearted though - No warranty to cover it if things go wrong (and they can).

I've done it for 2 points on one layout as it made the rest of the trackwork fit better and trains to run smoother through it.

It took 3 attempts to get the first usable finished item. I've still to decide what to do with the points that I tried before I got a result.

Once you cut the bases the whole point is very flexible and fragile.

Thanks
Phil H
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 13, 2019, 08:06:22 AM
Hi Guys,

Yes gentle curves can be formed by cutting the webbing. I do wish to release curved turnouts with a slightly tighter radius, though.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on February 13, 2019, 12:17:23 PM
The frailty can be mitigated by adding a plasticard base and I have used botched kits to make trap points so always  a way to repurpose/ recycle.

Looking forward to the slips - hopefully no trips and falls !

Robert     
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 13, 2019, 02:40:36 PM
Hi Guys,

3 'BETA' testers now have their single slip kits and should hopefully be showing build progress/photos on here soon. The 4th tester is waiting for his double slip kit, I need to mill some extra bits and a different assembly jig before I can send it to him.

Below are diagrams for the single slip:

Chairs Layout Diagram:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/906-130219143111.jpeg)

Suggested Wiring Diagram:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/906-130219141239-7408793.jpeg)
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: jamespetts on February 14, 2019, 12:21:29 AM
I have just placed an order for two turnouts, a single piece of bullhead plain track and the requisite jigs so that I can begin testing this and working out whether I am up to the task of building a layout's worth of these.

I note in the product description page that lead free solder is recommended for assembly. Is Carr's Speedy Solder suitable? I understand that it is recommended for a great many purposes.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on February 14, 2019, 12:43:33 AM
Other than droppers there is no soldering required close to the plastic base, so most solders should be fine along with an appropriate flux.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Waz on February 16, 2019, 10:05:16 PM
As one of the people test building a Single Slip kit, I had a spare hour this evening so have started to build the kit.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/4354-160219215430.jpeg)

This is the contents of the kit as I received it from Wayne.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/4354-160219215452.jpeg)

and a close up of the kit base and castings

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/4354-160219215523.jpeg)

Starting to fit the chairs and rails

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/4354-160219215548.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/4354-160219215608.jpeg)

Progress after about an hour.

So far the kit has gone together easily and i should get a bit more time tomorrow to progress it further, then once complete I will pass my feedback and comments to Wayne.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 17, 2019, 12:02:49 PM
Hi Waz,

Nice to see you have made a start! :) I notice that the rails are not lining up with the central K casting, is the casting pushed all the way in/fully seated?

Many thanks for posting so far! :)

Also, the castings look much better if you blacken the part between the rails.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MarshLane on February 19, 2019, 11:36:21 PM
Wayne,
This may be a silly question, but I am a bit confused.  I am about to start track building for a new layout to 2FS standards, and in places I have read that your trackwork (certainly for the straight track) can be used fine with 2FS back-to-back.  Is that correct or have I strayed off the main line!!

My plan was to use your points (where possible) and Flexi track on the scenic sections, just wondering if that is now an option or not?  Any advice would be appreciated, as I have read so much recently, I think I am getting some things mixed up.

Rich
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on February 19, 2019, 11:51:07 PM
Modern N Gauge stock will run on 2FS plain track but probably not vice versa. Neither will run on point work built to the other standard. If you are building to 2FS you need to use 2MM Association Easitrac and not Finetrax, which is built to N Gauge standards.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: nookfield on February 19, 2019, 11:56:28 PM
Wayne,
This may be a silly question, but I am a bit confused.  I am about to start track building for a new layout to 2FS standards, and in places I have read that your trackwork (certainly for the straight track) can be used fine with 2FS back-to-back.  Is that correct or have I strayed off the main line!!

My plan was to use your points (where possible) and Flexi track on the scenic sections, just wondering if that is now an option or not?  Any advice would be appreciated, as I have read so much recently, I think I am getting some things mixed up.

Rich

If you are building a 2FS layout then you would be better using 2mm Scale Association Easitrac which is similar to finetrax.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MarshLane on February 20, 2019, 02:01:55 AM
Modern N Gauge stock will run on 2FS plain track but probably not vice versa. Neither will run on point work built to the other standard. If you are building to 2FS you need to use 2MM Association Easitrac and not Finetrax, which is built to N Gauge standards.

If you are building a 2FS layout then you would be better using 2mm Scale Association Easitrac which is similar to finetrax.

Thanks guys.  I think thats where I am getting mixed up!

Cheers
Rich
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on February 20, 2019, 09:58:04 AM
If you're happy with the appearance of Finetrax though I'd question the merit in going 2mm FS at all? Seems a lot of hassle and expense (which from you other thread is a consideration) for little benefit - the 2mm SA offer a service at £1 per axle to turn down wheelsets, but that still means significant expense. Steam locos are a wholly different proposition too.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: MarshLane on February 20, 2019, 12:26:52 PM
If you're happy with the appearance of Finetrax though I'd question the merit in going 2mm FS at all? Seems a lot of hassle and expense (which from you other thread is a consideration) for little benefit - the 2mm SA offer a service at £1 per axle to turn down wheelsets, but that still means significant expense. Steam locos are a wholly different proposition too.

Nick,
Thanks for that - I've done a lot of thinking this morning, and laid out my thoughts and reasonings in a post on my track thread (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=44474.msg555016#msg555016) to avoid hijacking Wayne's thread. But your comments really did help put a few things in perspective for me.  Thank you.

Rich
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on February 20, 2019, 06:14:58 PM
Yes, the above is correct, so 2fs wheelsets will not run on finetrax, its intended for n gauge only.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: RichardBattersby on February 24, 2019, 10:34:15 PM
Good Evening finetrax followers.  :wave:

As another beta tester, I thought Iíd share some pics of the single slip.

Here are the ingredients for the single slip Ė nicely packaged too.

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306542608-6.jpg)

The base is quite flexible but that didnít pose a problem. The cast frogs are pre-fitted, however, whilst reassuringly snug, they easily come out to allow tinning for droppers, for example.

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306542696-6.jpg)

This is the underside of the base. There are two slender holes for the two actuator wires from the point motors which are pre-drilled and itís a great addition to see holes and exposure of the inner frogs. This will make connecting the frog wires much easier.

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306542891-6.jpg)

Iíve tidied up a couple of bits on the outer frogs. I use Wayneís recommended method of cutting the chairs from the sprues with a no. 11 blade, then feeding it back onto the blade to then press into the holes on the base. The chairs for the slip utilise the same ones from the other kits which makes construction simpler.

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306543038-6.jpg)

Here are all the chairs in place on the base. They havenít been glued in at this stage as rotation of some of the chairs will occur as the rails are fed through them.

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306543175-6.jpg)

Here are the check rails in place. I measured the length and cut them all the same size, filed the ends for a smooth introduction to the chairs, then bent the ends in situ. I think less is more with when it comes to the bending.

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306543285-6.jpg)

Using some off-cuts, I added the short pieces of rail which Iíve allowed to be butted up against the frogs.

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306543371-6.jpg)

Now for the fun bit. One surface has been tinned for a piece of rail that is to become a switch rail, remembering to apply the solder on alternate sides. In the poly bag are the base etches that will be soldered to the switch rails and some wire that is used as a peg which fits into a PCB tie bar. Using filing jig A each side of each switch rail is carefully filed to a taper.

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306543582-6.jpg)

The etches have tags that need removing. I cut them off then use a hand vice to ensure a straight edge.

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306543769-6.jpg)

After the etch has been soldered to the switch blade using the middle hole, the rail is then moved laterally to remove excess peg/solder so that wheels do not collide with it when moving along the point.

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306543733-6.jpg)

The finished blades, each orientated at different perpendicular planes so that you can see each side.

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306543801-6.jpg)

There we have it. The finished slip. Iíve blackened the centres of the frogs as Wayne recommends, though thanks to my dodgy LED lighting, it isnít so obvious. Note that the lower rails have been left long to aid congruence with adjacent track once fitted. Also, Iíve use a length of finetrax for the top section to make running even more smooth.

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306543938-6.jpg)

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306544108-6.jpg)

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306544165-6.jpg)

(https://RichardBattersby.com/img/s/v-3/p3306544207-6.jpg)

Apologies for the photography, unfortunately I donít have a macro lens. Hopefully itís enough to get an idea of just how good this track looks. Itís been a great little project and Iíve really enjoyed building it. Iíll be feeding back to Wayne [Iíll email sometime this week] and making it operational soon, of course Iíll share the action too.

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on February 25, 2019, 04:49:40 AM
Richard and Wayne,

Thank you!! The photos above are brilliant and very instructive, I look forward to buying a single slip knowing that the build is well documented and the slip well thought out.

regards
Robert     
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: longbow on February 25, 2019, 05:48:23 AM
I look forward to seeing how smoothly stock passes over the crossing.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on February 25, 2019, 11:22:03 AM
Recently I have soldered the short rails to the end of the frog casting- in situ! I used a damp cloth as a heatsink as soon as iron removed. Seems ok.
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: robert shrives on February 25, 2019, 11:23:27 AM
Recently I have soldered the short rails to the end of the frog casting- in situ! I used a damp cloth as a heatsink as soon as iron removed. Seems ok.
Robert
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 02, 2019, 01:35:45 PM
Many thanks for posting your progress Richard, looking great! :)

I have started to get feedback from the testers, and I am making adjustments to the design accordingly.

Work is progressing on the 3 way, testing the wax pattern to make sure things line up to adjoining rail:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/906-020319131949-74619599.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/906-020319132315.jpeg)

And for a little bit of off topic fun, thought I would share a video we filmed last night of me cooking on my new Teppanyaki style grill...apologies in advance for my poor cooking skills! LOL



Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Branchie on March 17, 2019, 11:10:35 PM
 Evening.

I'm thinking of using fiNetrax on the scenic section of my layout, with peco in the fiddleyard. How easy would it be to get a successful transition between the two?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on March 18, 2019, 09:21:59 AM
Should be alright, just need to pack the Finetrax to match the height of the Peco. Doing it on a curve wonít be easy, but a straight will be fine.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Branchie on March 18, 2019, 11:34:23 AM
Should be alright, just need to pack the Finetrax to match the height of the Peco. Doing it on a curve wonít be easy, but a straight will be fine.

Thanks for the reply. I'll purchase a couple of pieces and experiment.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: njee20 on March 18, 2019, 01:43:43 PM
FWIW Iíve just been joining hand built track on PCB sleepers to Peco, on a curve, and I ended up soldering the joints to get decent alignment, but very doable.
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Izzy on March 18, 2019, 03:45:15 PM
 
 I would suggest a short length of wire - 0.3/0.45mm -  on the outside of a soldered joint between the two - sat in the rail web, will help ensure they stay in alignment and the joint doesn't break at some stage in the future.

Izzy
Title: Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
Post by: Haanaya on March 31, 2019, 05:57:26 PM
 :helpneededsign:

Sorry if this has already been asked, I have looked but can't find an answer to this one....

I have just got hold of an older Farish class 4p 4-4-0, I am planning to convert it to a 2p, pretty easy to do, but I want to replace the wheels with open spoked ones, it's a bit of a thing of mine. 

The question:- I know 2mm finescale wheels from the 2mm society will not run through the pointwork of 9mm gauge commercially available tracks such as Peco, Kato, etc, but is the better ad tighter quality/tolerances of the Finterax system sufficiently better to be able to run a gauged correctly to 9mm loco using 2mm society wheels?  If so, I can rebuild using their wheels and get a nice model.  If not.....

Secondary question, one which I have seen asked a few times on other forums but neve