N Gauge Forum

General Category => Crowdfunding => Topic started by: 7P5F on November 17, 2015, 04:25:50 PM

Title: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 17, 2015, 04:25:50 PM
There seems to be  some support on the yahoo n gauge forum for an MSW/LNER EM1.I for one would be very interested in one of these models.These would look great in BR green or no.26000,the prototype which was slightly different to the rest of the class in the cab windows & body grilles.EM2`s were an express design, slightly odd choice as they were rated at 90 mph which was above the line limit,however i could be tempted by one in NSL Dutch livery.

             Ray.

Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 18, 2015, 08:49:20 PM
Hi

I would be interested in em1s but would you be proposing both the non MU and the MU fitted ones?

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: EtchedPixels on November 18, 2015, 08:58:49 PM
The EM1 has been done both as resin and etched kits in the past - both sold dismally at the time. The EM2 was done as an etched kit including the Dutch version - ditto. Tommy was done in resin ditto.

So while I'd love to see them history isn't in favour here. Maybe as RTR they'd make the number and at least with Kickstarter someone can try.

Mind you I've got an EM1, a 26000 and half built EM2 8)

Alan
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 18, 2015, 09:16:03 PM
The EM1 has been done both as resin and etched kits in the past - both sold dismally at the time. The EM2 was done as an etched kit including the Dutch version - ditto. Tommy was done in resin ditto.

So while I'd love to see them history isn't in favour here. Maybe as RTR they'd make the number and at least with Kickstarter someone can try.

Mind you I've got an EM1, a 26000 and half built EM2 8)

Alan

Hi Alan

I have twelve EM1s all built from kits but you can never have too many  :D

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: acko22 on November 18, 2015, 09:30:36 PM
I would be very tempted to get a one of each, especially been a Manchester lad although I am to young to have ever seen the Woodhead route running.

So while I would love one I think it's fair to say it's an outsider as the Woodhead route is a very niche market, although for those that have the will it could make for a very interesting layout, you can mix Electric, diesel and kettle steam all together and it will be prototypical!
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: gc4946 on November 18, 2015, 09:52:54 PM
I'd go along with this suggestion, because it's surprising how many are attracted to the locos in their own right as a novelty, even if they don't run them in model form under any catenary.

As I have a small collection of steam locos, of which the prototypes ran on ex-Great Central lines, I'd buy one lined black EM1 and possibly one of the lined green named versions (26046-57) as well, if offered.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Roy L S on November 18, 2015, 10:19:24 PM
A definite "Rule 1" purchase for me and even if not looking it first off I think a surprisingly logical choice, quite long lived (unlike the 21/29 possibly?) could run alongside steam from early 50s, through steam/diesel transition and right through the BR Corporate Blue era to 1980 so into TOPS.

The only limitation is potentially geographical, but I do not doubt a few 1500v DC layouts would adopt a "what if" back-story to justify them.

The OHLE was quite unique I believe so maybe that would be a cue for the cottage industry to do something?

I'd probably go for a couple, one in BR Green and one BR Black.

Roy
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Ben A on November 19, 2015, 09:05:07 AM

Hi Ray,

Thanks for starting this thread.

Have you got any suggestions as to which manufacturer might be best placed to make this model?  Are there any in existence in other scales?  I think Heljan may have done an EM2 for Olivia's trains but I don't have time to google it now....

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 19, 2015, 09:49:22 AM
Hi Ben,thanks.The heljan version is an  EM1 although from what i read,it`s riddled with inaccuracies & the pantographs don`t work,apart from that,it`s the only model EM1 thats on the market.
The one thing i regret is selling my Trix model in the 1980`s for peanuts so while i would like an N version,i keep looking at Ebay for a replacement which runs fine on Hornby Dublo 3 rail track,in fact if you use Catenary & adjust the pick ups,you can have two trains running on the same track as in true TTR style.

I can`t see the big manufacturers taking this model on except perhaps Hornby under the Arnold brand.Look what happened to the Brighton Belle,i have the brown & umber version & it sold out pretty quickly i believe.

                        Cheers,Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Karhedron on November 19, 2015, 11:16:59 AM
I can see some pluses for a class 76/EM1. It is a signature item for the Woodhead Route and as such would open up a range of new modelling opportunities. The originals were successful, long-lived and carried a variety of liveries. One is preserved at the NRM (76020) which makes laser-scanning a possibility. Prior to energisation of the Woodhead route, the first 10 members of the class were tested between Liverpool Street and Shenfield which widens the appeal of the class a little.

Poor sales of kits could potentially be a negative but not necessarily. A Woodhead-based layout would probably need several as they were the primary motive power on the line and it may be that people balk at the prospect of building a fleet rather than a model (PaulCheffus excepted, naturally ;) ).

No current manufacturers really have anything like it in their range so there is no obvious reason to go for one over another. Given Rapido's good work so far working from laser-scanned prototypes, perhaps they would make a good choice?
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: acko22 on November 19, 2015, 12:39:18 PM
I know as well as there been 76020 at York there is also class 77 (former 27002) in full NS colours numbered 1505 at the Manchester Museum of science and industry, plus the cab of 76039 with the multiple working cables still on.

Thinking about it and reading up a little more you could potentially get extra sales from the continental market as the class 77s which are broadly the same were in operation in Holland till 1986.

With this in mind there is the potential out there!! Plus as Roy L S says and I know I would use the "what if" approach and say the 76s were redone internally to work on the same voltage as the rest of the network instead of scrapped, and we can't say this have never been done as it happened all the time with steam classes and even now with the 20s, 57s, and right up to date the 73/9s
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 19, 2015, 12:56:32 PM
The MSL kit was based on,i think,a Kato electric loco chassis which is no longer available which is a shame because i seem ti recall that you could make two EM1s for the price of one loco.
If you want further reading,i can reccomend Woodhouse,the Electric railway by E.M Johnson in Foxline books.This will tell you everything you wanted to know about the electric MSW.

                Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on November 19, 2015, 01:10:02 PM
Strangely enough, and my close friends know this.
I've always said to them that as I don't think there's a proper business case for an N gauge EM1 or EM2, I would love to model the line.

I've also said to them that I would, in a very altruistic move probably make at least the EM1 commercially in the full knowledge it wouldn't be a good seller, simply for my own selfish reasons of wanting one (for 1 read a load.lol)

I'd be more than happy to be part of a Kickstarter, as designer and supplier, especially as I have Mercig on board for weathering, but conversely would fully support this model if done through an experienced N British model railway manufacturer like Bachmann.

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Karhedron on November 19, 2015, 01:47:19 PM
I'd be more than happy to be part of a Kickstarter, as designer and supplier, especially as I have Mercig on board for weathering


The thought of Ian doing justice to an EM1 in this sort of condition is almost enough to tempt me away from my love of all things Western.

Almost! ;)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3773/11010144906_f4aa0725bb.jpg)
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: red_death on November 19, 2015, 02:10:28 PM
I fear Dave is right that it is probably difficult to make a commercial case for a 76, but that is the beauty of asking for expressions of interest - we can ask if sufficient interest exists! Though we have enough on at the moment!

As well as the MSL kit there has been at least 2 others IIRC - an older resin bodyshell (Cempro?) and Masterclass Models etched kit (which I think that Paul might have used).  It is the sort of thing that if someone wants to model the line then they want more than one normally!

How about a 506 to go with it!

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Guide_Bridge_1967001_1.jpg/512px-Guide_Bridge_1967001_1.jpg) (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File%3AGuide_Bridge_1967001_1.jpg)
Guide Bridge 1967001 1 (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File%3AGuide_Bridge_1967001_1.jpg) [CC BY-SA 4.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0))], by Geoffrey Skelsey (Own work), from Wikimedia Commons

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on November 19, 2015, 02:57:56 PM
For any fan of the Woodhead line, I would recommend a B & R Productions (Volume 90) DVD 'Woodhead Remembered'. Although I never travelled on it I would most certainly be tempted to create a layout if EM1/EM2/506s werre available :drool:
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on November 19, 2015, 03:16:39 PM
Always quite fancied a model of Penistone, to be honest. Complete with Viaduct.
A railway in the scenery!
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on November 19, 2015, 08:36:45 PM
The overhead lines around Penistone were set very high so you'd see pantographs pretty much fully extended.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: acko22 on November 19, 2015, 08:53:44 PM
I have seen that on pics but I could never understand why??
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on November 19, 2015, 09:17:45 PM
I have seen that on pics but I could never understand why??

Sadly the DVD I have doesn't explain why, but I suspect it may have to do with other lineside structures e.g. platform canopies etc :hmmm:

Found a pic in this article on Wickedpedia that bears out my thought .................
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodhead_Line
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: MikeDunn on November 19, 2015, 10:21:22 PM
Sadly the DVD I have doesn't explain why, but I suspect it may have to do with other lineside structures e.g. platform canopies etc :hmmm:
I think it was related to the steam trains running, and they needed to have clearance for the water columns etc ... something running around my head about "20' from rail height"  ???
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: acko22 on November 20, 2015, 12:20:15 AM
Well I had a look on the pics I could find and well I know canopies at Penistone were high but couldn't see any water columns but that doesn't mean it was the case!

But that's going  :offtopicsign: back to the EM1 would it be viable / possible to use the same moulds to produce both the EM1 and EM2?? I know there are differences but how much??
If it would be viable to produce both from the same moulds that could really boost things! As having both classes could blow open the geographical limitations.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 20, 2015, 08:01:55 AM
Well I had a look on the pics I could find and well I know canopies at Penistone were high but couldn't see any water columns but that doesn't mean it was the case!

But that's going  :offtopicsign: back to the EM1 would it be viable / possible to use the same moulds to produce both the EM1 and EM2?? I know there are differences but how much??
If it would be viable to produce both from the same moulds that could really boost things! As having both classes could blow open the geographical limitations.

Hi

Main issues are the em2s are longer and have CO CO bogies instead of the BO BO ones under the em1.

I have one 506 and hope to build another in the future.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: acko22 on November 20, 2015, 08:12:48 AM
 :-[ :-[ Ok I had looked at pics and err not noticed the Co Co design!!!  :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: xm607 on November 20, 2015, 08:39:10 AM
I have modelled the Woodhead line since the 1980's you may remember Parkwood Springs / Brookside with my own cast resin EM1'S, I have an unfinished Sheffield Vic sitting around as I really need to replace the EM1'S and 2's it was shown at Retford some years ago. What I am getting around to is there may be a little interest but it may not make commercial sense, does the OO range sell?

Steve. 
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 20, 2015, 09:06:33 AM
Well,there does seem to be a bit of interest for a unique locomotive class.Most of the locos would run in pairs so a motorised loco with an unpowered model woul look really great on a long coal drag which was the reason for the line when built.

              I live in hope,
                     Ray.
             
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on November 20, 2015, 09:21:18 AM
Yup, 1 powered and 1 unpowered 76 would look rather good in my new 'twin pack' boxes, that's for sure.

Obviously the tooling would have to allow for 'Tommy' too.

This has now got me thinking more about realising my dream of having them (producing them) in N gauge.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 20, 2015, 10:15:48 AM
Yup, 1 powered and 1 unpowered 76 would look rather good in my new 'twin pack' boxes, that's for sure.

Obviously the tooling would have to allow for 'Tommy' too.

This has now got me thinking more about realising my dream of having them (producing them) in N gauge.

Hi Dave

Go on you know you want to  :D

Realistically I don't think you would sell enough to make it viable. From memory there were 50 Masterclass Models kits of which I have around a quarter and I know where a similar amount are and I know Chris Higgs (Masterclass Models) kept some for himself. These took around three years to sell.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on November 20, 2015, 10:31:09 AM
One of the finest MSW layouts in 2mm FS, and which I'm sure prompted fellow member 'Mainline' to create his layout 'The Circle Line'.................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQfRw57TZcM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQfRw57TZcM)
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on November 20, 2015, 10:53:18 AM
Hi Paul,

I understand what you mean but wonder if........

After all we know OHLE doesn't sell too well, but the MSW I think was a different beastie that might just roll.

After all, steam used the route (not sure about the 'new' tunnels though), diesels, emus and of course the 76/77's.

Plus for those that want to model Shenfield circa 1930's they might need one or two.

I'd do them purely as an altruistic project with little or no prospect of breaking even in the short term.

However, I do wonder if weathered twin packs, celebrity single units, and painted body only 'grounded' models will appeal?

After all, they ran alongside 25kv traction in
Manchester and diesel stuff on the woodhead, Sheffield, Tinsley etc
And don't forget visits to Doncaster and Crewe works too.

Very interesting possible project this one.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: willike1958 on November 20, 2015, 10:57:33 AM
I've been thinking about doing MSW inspired layout in BR Blue days for some time, so I could be up for a handful of EM1s should someone take this on.
Kevin
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 20, 2015, 11:05:30 AM
I`d have at least one boxed set or possibly two of the powered & unpowered models.

There was at least one occasion when the 1500v locos strayed onto the 25 kv line at Manchester due to a signalmans mistake,history does not relate to what happened to the loco.

A model of Manchester London Rd with B17s & A5 tanks conjures up visions.The OHLE was a lot simpler,basically RSJ`s with wires hanging from them.

       Cheers,Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on November 20, 2015, 11:17:12 AM

Very interesting possible project this one.

Keep the thread going, chaps, as we might well reel Dave in :angel:
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 20, 2015, 11:23:27 AM
Totally agree, :NGaugersRule:

                  Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 20, 2015, 11:24:59 AM

Very interesting possible project this one.

Keep the thread going, chaps, as we might well reel Dave in :angel:

Hi

We can but live in hope.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 20, 2015, 03:28:06 PM
Unfortunately,there aren`t any  N kits around & not only that,a lot of folk would like to see ready to run models.



                     Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: xm607 on November 20, 2015, 03:39:17 PM
Yup, 1 powered and 1 unpowered 76 would look rather good in my new 'twin pack' boxes, that's for sure.

Obviously the tooling would have to allow for 'Tommy' too.

This has now got me thinking more about realising my dream of having them (producing them) in N gauge.

Hi Dave

Go on you know you want to  :D

Realistically I don't think you would sell enough to make it viable. From memory there were 50 Masterclass Models kits of which I have around a quarter and I know where a similar amount are and I know Chris Higgs (Masterclass Models) kept some for himself. These took around three years to sell.

Cheers

Paul
The body side grills are different for Tommy against an EM 1.
Steve.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 20, 2015, 03:42:14 PM
 And the cab windows but it would look good in LNER Green as no.601.

                      Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on November 20, 2015, 04:32:47 PM
I couldn't do an EM1 without doing 'Tommy', and doing it correctly!

Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: xm607 on November 20, 2015, 04:34:06 PM
If a start was made now it would be three and a half to four years before you could get one, my Sheffield Vic would have been sold long before.

Steve.
PS I have two class 17 's on order
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on November 20, 2015, 04:36:45 PM
Not sure where you get 3 + years from mate.
If you could get enough people together (or enough 'pre sold), then work could start almost immediately.

Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 20, 2015, 07:21:25 PM
Iv`e posted this topic on the Newrailwaymodellers forum so you never know,we may get enough interest to make this viable.

 To be honest,i didn`t think there would be so much support for these models,i must say that i`m pleasantly surprised.

                   Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Woodenhead on November 21, 2015, 10:12:40 PM
When DJM Dave was Dapol Dave I am sure he hinted at MSW inspired models but I guess that was around the time of Dapol Pendolinos and all manner of electrics.

Back to the present, I always liked the idea of two sets of sidings that acted as a changeover from electric to diesel and vice versa that would allow me to have trains moving from one to the other without the need for a fiddlyard.  Pity I have no invested so much in a GW/SR single line layout.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Bri.s on November 22, 2015, 10:32:58 AM
I wouldn't mind one or 2 76's

Brian
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on November 22, 2015, 10:34:12 AM


Back to the present, I always liked the idea of two sets of sidings that acted as a changeover from electric to diesel and vice versa that would allow me to have trains moving from one to the other without the need for a fiddlyard.

I agree with you on that, but my changeover would be from electric to steam/diesel :D
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 22, 2015, 11:14:22 AM
I wonder how many preorders would make this project viable?

                     Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on November 22, 2015, 11:32:56 AM
If I could get 500, I'd underwrite the rest myself.

I'll start the ball rolling with 10 (minimum)
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 22, 2015, 11:53:38 AM
Thanks Dave,you could put me down for a boxed set to get the ball rolling.

             Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Roy L S on November 22, 2015, 12:01:17 PM
My initial commitment would be two. Possibly more subsequently.

Should people have the opportunity to "vote" here for their number/livery variant here? (It would be my suggestion but I don't want to hijack someone else's topic).

If this should be expanded to other media I think there would be need to ask people to vote in one place only...

Roy
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 22, 2015, 12:11:28 PM
Good idea,i have just posted on facebook a message to see if we can more interest with a link to this topic.
        Here`s hoping,
                 Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on November 22, 2015, 12:17:57 PM
Hi Roy,

good question and one i'll answer frankly.
I truly believe that too many livery / number options will dilute this project and confuse things.
After all, this would be a project where we all think wont 'fly' as huge sales, and the more i offer, the more the factory will want due to smaller runs, and this then has to put the price up accordingly to cover costs as best as possible.

Therefore i'd be tempted to keep things at 4 green and 4 blue with associated pipe differences to start with.
Tommy, and named ones can come later.

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 22, 2015, 12:31:20 PM
My personal choice would be the boxed set in BR black with early emblem but BR green with one as Triton would be ok as well.

                  Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Roy L S on November 22, 2015, 12:38:15 PM
Hi Roy,

good question and one i'll answer frankly.
I truly believe that too many livery / number options will dilute this project and confuse things.
After all, this would be a project where we all think wont 'fly' as huge sales, and the more i offer, the more the factory will want due to smaller runs, and this then has to put the price up accordingly to cover costs as best as possible.

Therefore i'd be tempted to keep things at 4 green and 4 blue with associated pipe differences to start with.
Tommy, and named ones can come later.

Cheers
Dave

Hi Dave

Great to see you/DJM engaging in this discussion.

I see your point completely based on the premise that this would be marginal as a proposition overall. I suspect the green and blue liveries would probably be the most popular anyway personally. I would be happy to go for two green with different running numbers in the scenario.

But Could be some of the "Rule 1" modellers purchasing decision/criteria may defy that general logic - for them a black one and/or "namer" may tempt a purchase where the "cooking" ones might not!

So, how can Dave gauge the level of interest with any semblance of accuracy? Is it time to create some voting buttons here?

Roy
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 22, 2015, 12:42:47 PM
Hi Roy,

good question and one i'll answer frankly.
I truly believe that too many livery / number options will dilute this project and confuse things.
After all, this would be a project where we all think wont 'fly' as huge sales, and the more i offer, the more the factory will want due to smaller runs, and this then has to put the price up accordingly to cover costs as best as possible.

Therefore i'd be tempted to keep things at 4 green and 4 blue with associated pipe differences to start with.
Tommy, and named ones can come later.

Cheers
Dave



      :thankyousign:

 Hi Dave,totally agree.

                  Ray.


Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Ben A on November 22, 2015, 01:00:22 PM

Hello all,

Good luck with this project.

I'd be a strictly "rule 1" purchaser but definitely in for either single loco or twin pack, whatever format is eventually decided on, and while I'd prefer blue (and ideally weathered) a different livery wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Ben Line 457 on November 22, 2015, 02:13:58 PM
For me personally I keep thinking that a blue, black or green non-jumper fitted EM1, painted in every detail apart from its number.
They could be supplied with a one off sheet of decals covering a broad selection of desirable locos in each livery - some namers, some with bagpipes some without etc., An accessory pack with jumper cables and a simple etch drill guide to get the positioning right and all - or most bases covered.
My own 'favourite' Vo has to be be 76 022 in Blue (the one that ran with the Lion & dartboard rather than BR arrows) and whilst I would love to see this RTR, I would rather have another Blue one that I could renumber than no EM1's at all.

I seem to remember Dapol doing a plain large logo 73 a while back which had decal numbers as an accessory - but I've no idea if it sold well or not? and more to the point whilst I think its a good idea I'm not certain how others will view it?
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: xm607 on November 22, 2015, 03:52:45 PM
Here's one that's been done some time ago!

http://www.simplytrains.com/pages/layouts/brookside/brookside.htm (http://www.simplytrains.com/pages/layouts/brookside/brookside.htm)

Steve.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: acko22 on November 22, 2015, 04:16:42 PM
I think the idea of having no set number / name on and a set of names and numbers on a sheet is a good idea.

That then could keep the costs down as Dave says the less runs different runs the lower the cost as the runs will be larger.

As an aside thought to it, especially for you Dave would it be worth approaching Heijan for the CADs? I know from earlier in the thread there were some faults with the design in OO gauge but would the CADs not give a good starting point to work from and make corrections from?
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 22, 2015, 04:36:55 PM
If I could get 500, I'd underwrite the rest myself.

I'll start the ball rolling with 10 (minimum)

Hi

Ok I would replace my twelve and maybe add a few more but they would need to be accurate models for me to do this.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 22, 2015, 04:39:11 PM
For me personally I keep thinking that a blue, black or green non-jumper fitted EM1, painted in every detail apart from its number.
They could be supplied with a one off sheet of decals covering a broad selection of desirable locos in each livery - some namers, some with bagpipes some without etc., An accessory pack with jumper cables and a simple etch drill guide to get the positioning right and all - or most bases covered.
My own 'favourite' Vo has to be be 76 022 in Blue (the one that ran with the Lion & dartboard rather than BR arrows) and whilst I would love to see this RTR, I would rather have another Blue one that I could renumber than no EM1's at all.

I seem to remember Dapol doing a plain large logo 73 a while back which had decal numbers as an accessory - but I've no idea if it sold well or not? and more to the point whilst I think its a good idea I'm not certain how others will view it?

Hi

Minor point 76022 was dual braked not vacuum only.

Jumper cables fitted by modellers that won't catch on  :D bear in mind that the front handrails are also different on the MU fitted locos.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: NeMo on November 22, 2015, 04:45:12 PM
I think the idea of having no set number / name on and a set of names and numbers on a sheet is a good idea.

I disagree. Not because I don't like the idea; I do.

But an EM1 model will live or die depending on how well it appeals to collectors. Almost nobody models the electrified MSW line, so I doubt there's pent-up demand for the model among the sorts of people who renumber stuff.

Unnumbered models don't sell at the best of times. But they especially don't sell to collectors, who want a finished model they can stick in a display cabinet or let loose on their layout purely for the fun of seeing it run.

FWIW, I'd buy a ready-to-run EM1 in a heartbeat. Love the look of them.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Ben Line 457 on November 22, 2015, 04:49:47 PM

Minor point 76022 was dual braked not vacuum only.


Hi Paul,

When I said 022 was my favourite 'Vo' I didn't mean vacuum only - although the letters could be mistaken that way - I was referring to the nickname 'Vo's' which I always thought was for all EM1/76's?
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 22, 2015, 04:50:52 PM

Minor point 76022 was dual braked not vacuum only.


Hi Paul,

When I said 022 was my favourite 'Vo' I didn't mean vacuum only - although the letters could be mistaken that way - I was referring to the nickname 'Vo's' which I always thought was for all EM1/76's?

Hi

Not heard that one before as far as I am aware they were always called Tommies.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on November 22, 2015, 04:55:30 PM
Hi mate,

No I wouldn't ask anyone else for their cad cams as to put right what's wrong, would be more time consuming than starting from scratch.

The only person I would ask for help from would be Charlie Petty.
He's the guru with the woodhead electrics in my humble.

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: acko22 on November 22, 2015, 05:03:23 PM


But an EM1 model will live or die depending on how well it appeals to collectors. Almost nobody models the electrified MSW line, so I doubt there's pent-up demand for the model among the sorts of people who renumber stuff.


Nemo,

I know what you mean, if I was given the option between a numbered version and a non numbered option, I would go for a numbered option. But that bee said in this case with the EM/79 as Dave said he would in reality would only do a small un as it is very niche.

The issue then comes cost and in reality for such a small run even doing a since number will be expensive so then having to split it down again will only add to cost. Now what them costs will be err god knows! So it would help in keeping them costs down.

I do know what you mean from the collectors aspect but with such a small run I would say that this is nullified to some degree, whilst still keeping the model to a price those that want one will happily pay!
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 22, 2015, 05:22:27 PM

Minor point 76022 was dual braked not vacuum only.


Hi Paul,

When I said 022 was my favourite 'Vo' I didn't mean vacuum only - although the letters could be mistaken that way - I was referring to the nickname 'Vo's' which I always thought was for all EM1/76's?

Hi

Not heard that one before as far as I am aware they were always called Tommies.

Cheers

Paul


  Likewise  although i think it was Dutch railwaymen who gave it the the nickname when it was sent to Holland for proving runs & to help out a motive power shortage in about 1947/48.


              Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 22, 2015, 05:29:17 PM

Minor point 76022 was dual braked not vacuum only.


Hi Paul,

When I said 022 was my favourite 'Vo' I didn't mean vacuum only - although the letters could be mistaken that way - I was referring to the nickname 'Vo's' which I always thought was for all EM1/76's?

Hi

Not heard that one before as far as I am aware they were always called Tommies.

Cheers

Paul


  Likewise  although i think it was Dutch railwaymen who gave it the the nickname when it was sent to Holland for proving runs & to help out a motive power shortage in about 1947/48.


              Ray.

Hi Ray

That's how I understand it too. The whole class took the nickname from the prototype which got its name as you describe. That's not to say they didn't have other nicknames.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Chris Higgs on November 22, 2015, 05:30:02 PM
As the man behind the Masterclass models Class 76, just thought I would say how that came about, just for the
record. (it doesn't really affect the discussion here, but some may want to know).

My version was based on the Cenpro CAD, which had the following issues

1. It was 5% too big for 1:148. (or 8% too big for 2mm scale) - I think this was so it could be used on a Farish Class 31 chassis
2. The cab windows were not quite right - I think they had been based on those of the original Tommy rather than the production Class 76.
3. One of the side vents was too long.

The Cenpro CAD we were lent was re-scaleable but not editable - it was probably STL format but I don't recall. So we rescaled it down by 8% to be correct size for 1:152. At this scale the Brawa East German E142 model was a near-perfect chassis fit, and even had spoked wheels. Etches were provided for cab side and front to use as overlays to solve the window issue. Item 3 could not be corrected and we lived with it.

I had fifty made, ten for myself and forty to sell. These took an age to shift, but all went eventually. A large proportion of them to Paul Cheffings and Alan Whitehouse.

FYI, the Heljan 4mm EM1 has severe issues with the window proportions and spacing.

It would be great to see this project succeed, and I shall watch with interest. Probably won't model the MSW myself though if it comes about, as one of my motivations was to model something no-one else was!

Chris Higgs
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 22, 2015, 05:44:01 PM
Thanks for that insight Chris.There aren`t any kits available & the chassis/motor bogies would be difficult to source,I reckon a lot of folk would like a ready to run loco.

  The EM2 used bogies based on the LMS 10000/10001 design but again were were too fast for the line speed which i think was limited to 60mph.

              Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Chris Higgs on November 22, 2015, 07:27:49 PM
I'll be interested to see just how many 'a lot' is. EM1 maybe, but I'll be very surprised if we see an EM2.

They didn't last long on the route and I have always wondered if the builders had half an eye on selling them on for elsewhere when they designed in that maximum speed. Or perhaps they believed that one day they might have been found plying their trade up and down the WCML - which might have been a possibility if 1500V DC had been chosen to go forward.

Chris
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 22, 2015, 07:37:55 PM
I'll be interested to see just how many 'a lot' is. EM1 maybe, but I'll be very surprised if we see an EM2.

They didn't last long on the route and I have always wondered if the builders had half an eye on selling them on for elsewhere when they designed in that maximum speed. Or perhaps they believed that one day they might have been found plying their trade up and down the WCML - which might have been a possibility if 1500V DC had been chosen to go forward.

Chris


Eventually,they were sold to Netherland State Railways & ran for many years,i believe there is,or was,a preserved loco in Utrecht transport museum.
They may have been designed to run to London if the OHLE had been installed but it was a non standard voltage & technology but this is just conjecture.

           Ray
                 
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 22, 2015, 07:44:27 PM
I have seen that on pics but I could never understand why??

There were a lot of level crossings on the line & the contact wire height had to be high to clear traffic.I think the standard height of the contact wire was around 16 ft.

                     Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: gc4946 on November 22, 2015, 09:12:17 PM
I'd go for the EM1s to be produced rather than the EM2s.

If the EM2s were made there would have to be a 1:148 version for British modellers and a 1:160 version for those modelling the Dutch scene, which would push production costs up and fragment the market.

Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Roy L S on November 22, 2015, 09:32:07 PM
Definitely has to be EM1s for my money.

There were more of them and they lasted considerably longer. If we are saying that the EM1 should be considered marginal as a RTR project I'd say the EM2 is a complete non starter personally.

Roy

Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on November 22, 2015, 09:46:58 PM
Seeing as how they were frequently 'mixed and matched' I'd be down for a green twin pack (motorised/dummy) and a blue twin pack at the very least :drool:
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: acko22 on November 23, 2015, 01:58:11 AM
Well I would be after a blue one at least, but if a twin pack was on offer well you may bend my arm slightly!!

Although I cant find it I know a poll was mentioned and I think with all the individual shows of interest we need to get it one that now, so any prospective manufacturer could see if the numbers add up to making them as an RTR model!
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: railsquid on November 23, 2015, 03:00:29 AM
I'd certainly be interested in one of these (plus possibly dummy) in BR blue. For the record, this would be a Rule 1 purchase as part of my attempt to collect every locomotive which ran in BR blue, however I'd certainly expect these to operate on revenue-earning services on my layout and not sit in a display case ;). I also note that if these aren't available in RTR, I'm not passionate enough about them to go to the trouble of assembling a kit, though I think I could stretch to applying my own numbers.

Wikipedia notes thusly about the unusually high catenary in places:
Quote
The locomotives were fitted with twin diamond-shaped pantographs. At certain points on the Woodhead Line, notably in the vicinity of steam locomotive water-columns, the electric overhead lines were as high as 20 feet above the tracks. The pantographs (BR practice utilised both raised in normal Woodhead operation in order to maximise current collection under any weather condition) had to stretch to almost their full height to reach the wires at such points.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_76
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: MikeDunn on November 23, 2015, 09:26:35 AM
Wikipedia notes thusly about the unusually high catenary in places
Ah, that was where I got that snippet from ...
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: acko22 on November 23, 2015, 10:14:44 AM


Wikipedia notes thusly about the unusually high catenary in places:
Quote
The locomotives were fitted with twin diamond-shaped pantographs. At certain points on the Woodhead Line, notably in the vicinity of steam locomotive water-columns, the electric overhead lines were as high as 20 feet above the tracks. The pantographs (BR practice utilised both raised in normal Woodhead operation in order to maximise current collection under any weather condition) had to stretch to almost their full height to reach the wires at such points.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_76

Ok so that would explain it, although others explanations would make good sense too, so I guess it could be a mixture of all of them!
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on November 23, 2015, 10:22:01 AM
In the DVD I mentioned in reply #15 the narrator did state the catenary was set at a nominal 16ft but that due to ground subsidence from the many coal workings, the contours of the land and other structures it could vary between 14ft and 20ft :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 23, 2015, 12:52:25 PM
Glad to see the amount of interest on here.

  Regarding catenary height,on the Worsborough branch,the supports were adjustable for height due to subsidence.These locos were also fitted with regenerative braking as it was found that on the early locos,they could start heavy trains but stopping them was a totally different matter!!.

   Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: hadrian9637 on November 26, 2015, 08:08:20 PM
 :thumbsup:

You can count me in too for BOTH the EM1 AND the EM2! 

I'm a die-hard GCR route modeller with a 'what if' (a.k.a Rule #1) layout involving a model of the route from Leicester Central to Nottingham Victoria being 'under the wires' so my Windcutters will need a pair of EM1 and my Master Cutler will definitely need the EM-2.

I'd even be willing to pre-order a 4/2 combination of the EM1/EM2 in BR Green!  :beers:

Jon in Ottawa Canada
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on November 28, 2015, 04:44:28 PM
Just waiting for DJM Dave to see if it`s worth doing!.

            We live in hope,Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: BramptonBranch on December 22, 2015, 08:25:00 PM
EM 1 in Green?

YES PLEASE!! maybe 2!!
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on December 22, 2015, 08:32:31 PM
I know it`s not n gauge but i like EM1`s so much i bought a Olivias trains model 26020 purely to admire. :sorrysign:

                         Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on December 23, 2015, 10:38:47 AM
Such devotion to EM1s should not go unrewarded by the manufacturers of N gauge models ;)
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on December 23, 2015, 01:35:40 PM
Hi everyone,

Just to give you an update on this possible project. However before i start, please note nothing is concrete on this yet, but i want to do it as an altruistic loco development, knowing that i probably wont make money back.
Also i am not formally announcing it until i feel im ready

Here's the update,
1) Some drawings collected and sent to China
2) Quotes from China for this model in powered and un-powered and twin packs with me currently
3) matrix being collated for every member of the class, in every livery variation, not just black, green and blue.
4) Matrix will include ALL versions of EM1, including alternate sides, ends, roof equipment, cab roofs, sand boxes etc
5) Full photo survey of Cab at Manchester Science museum complete
6) Full survey of Cab side at barrow hill including window sizes, and relationship to each other and handrails etc, complete
7) Full Survey of 26020 at York comprising complete check measurements and over 520 high resolution photographs, complete
8) Talks taken place for MSW masts in metal and wires from third party manufacturer on going.

All that remains is to find the cash, which, as my plans are based on 2 years, wont be for at least 2/3 years unless things turn around quickly for this project to speed up.

Like i said, its not worth announcing yet though as i am fully aware others could , unfortunately, step in and produce this model before i am ready. Them's the breaks.  :scowl:
Cheers
Dave


Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on December 23, 2015, 05:09:13 PM
Thanks Dave.

                  Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on December 23, 2015, 06:41:54 PM
Maybe the simple fact Dave is thinking about it will prompt some action but, speaking personally, those who do the legwork should get first dibs. Sadly, business doesn't work like that.


All that remains is to find the cash, which, as my plans are based on 2 years, wont be for at least 2/3 years unless things turn around quickly for this project to speed up.


The speed I build layouts I'd better start tomorrow :-[
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Vigo on December 24, 2015, 06:36:58 AM
As usual, late in on the discussion.
After 5 years of searching I recently managed to acquire an EM1 kit from a guy in Oz that cost a fortune. To motorise it properly would have cost another fortune (Kato chassis at 90+) so the prospect of an RTR model in N is very appealing.

As my layout is a model of Hadfield on the Woodhead line, please put me down for 2 in green.

Thanks in anticiption :bounce:
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: NeMo on December 24, 2015, 07:25:51 AM
Like i said, its not worth announcing yet though as i am fully aware others could , unfortunately, step in and produce this model before i am ready. Them's the breaks.  :scowl:

History would appear to be on your side though... in however many years N gauge has been about, nobody's made an EM1 or EM2 in ready-to-run format, and two "big boys" of the business seem to be pretty adamant that even widespread, still-in-service AC electrics don't sell, let alone DC electrics that ran on one small line that closed more than 30 years ago!

In any event, will definitely want one, purely a Rule#1 purchase, as I don't think BR blue EM1s ever ran much on the Western Region during the diesel hydraulic era...

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: robert shrives on December 24, 2015, 08:49:02 AM
Hi ,
I watched the last few years of EM1 opearation and saw EM2 in Holland once, plus Barrow Hill -all good times.

Height also increased at level crossings- fun to watch patnograph stretch up heading to road crossing beyond Hadfield.

Mertz and Mcellan Civil engineers had in a previous incaranation produced bound reports of LNE electrification to London and my sister as the librarian had access to these and just once I was allowed a look. Little pen drawings of suggested formations with EM2 and articulated  stock stick in my mind for london Newcastle expresses!  Also emus with sliding doors for suburban trains, WW11 prevented these plans but do allow for some What if sort of plans .  EM2 in green with carmine and cream Gresley stock changing traction say at Newcastle for steam or diesel. perhaps a 2-8-2 P2 or a green "LMS twin" in a BR green livery and numbered highly as the then standard BR diesel for all traffic, sorry no Deltics- well may be later...
Dave if you do get to go then brilliant!
Robert
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Mark on December 24, 2015, 04:58:17 PM
It's a little known fact that EM1s were regular visitors to the Southern Region in 60s / 70s.  I'll definitely have one - a twin pack with a dummy if it transpires.

Merry Christmas,

Mark
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: railsquid on December 24, 2015, 05:19:53 PM
Count me in... I have a small slush fund available for anything which ran in BR blue.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on December 24, 2015, 09:10:23 PM
May your slush fund never melt, Squiddy ;)
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: nharding99 on January 04, 2016, 03:10:43 PM
I'd go for a green single or twin pack
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Arthur on January 06, 2016, 05:42:25 PM
Would happily support a couple of green or black ones under rule 1.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: xm607 on January 07, 2016, 02:47:44 AM
Hi ,
I watched the last few years of EM1 opearation and saw EM2 in Holland once, plus Barrow Hill -all good times.

Height also increased at level crossings- fun to watch patnograph stretch up heading to road crossing beyond Hadfield.

Mertz and Mcellan Civil engineers had in a previous incaranation produced bound reports of LNE electrification to London and my sister as the librarian had access to these and just once I was allowed a look. Little pen drawings of suggested formations with EM2 and articulated  stock stick in my mind for london Newcastle expresses!  Also emus with sliding doors for suburban trains, WW11 prevented these plans but do allow for some What if sort of plans .  EM2 in green with carmine and cream Gresley stock changing traction say at Newcastle for steam or diesel. perhaps a 2-8-2 P2 or a green "LMS twin" in a BR green livery and numbered highly as the then standard BR diesel for all traffic, sorry no Deltics- well may be later...
Dave if you do get to go then brilliant!
Robert
According to HMRS LNER Loco book 10b the first EM2 idea's were a
4-6-4 loco which could have been based upon the NER EE1 Express loco no.13.

Steve
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: NS400R on January 08, 2016, 09:11:44 PM
Hi mate,

No I wouldn't ask anyone else for their cad cams as to put right what's wrong, would be more time consuming than starting from scratch.

The only person I would ask for help from would be Charlie Petty.
He's the guru with the woodhead electrics in my humble.

Cheers
Dave

You're better off having a chat with Mike Edge.  He really does know his stuff.  He made the master for Charlie's kit and whilst that kit is not particularly good, it is an early model.  Mike's moved on massively since then.  He also has CAD drawings for a proposed kit.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: NS400R on January 08, 2016, 09:16:01 PM
FYI, the Heljan 4mm EM1 has severe issues with the window proportions and spacing.


I'm not sure that's true.  Their EM1 has cab side windows that are 1mm too low but the fundamental shape seems ok.  Surprisingly, the positioning issue isn't too noticeable in the flesh.  More noticeable is the incorrect roof profile - too shallow, excessive bogie gap and abysmal pantographs.

Their EM2 has severe issues with window proportions and spacing.  It looks nothing like an EM2.  Quite how they managed that when they had Tri-ang's 1960 masterpiece as a reference is beyond me and others.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: NS400R on January 08, 2016, 09:22:53 PM
Hi everyone,

Just to give you an update on this possible project. However before i start, please note nothing is concrete on this yet, but i want to do it as an altruistic loco development, knowing that i probably wont make money back.
Also i am not formally announcing it until i feel im ready

Here's the update,
1) Some drawings collected and sent to China
2) Quotes from China for this model in powered and un-powered and twin packs with me currently
3) matrix being collated for every member of the class, in every livery variation, not just black, green and blue.
4) Matrix will include ALL versions of EM1, including alternate sides, ends, roof equipment, cab roofs, sand boxes etc
5) Full photo survey of Cab at Manchester Science museum complete
6) Full survey of Cab side at barrow hill including window sizes, and relationship to each other and handrails etc, complete
7) Full Survey of 26020 at York comprising complete check measurements and over 520 high resolution photographs, complete
8) Talks taken place for MSW masts in metal and wires from third party manufacturer on going.

All that remains is to find the cash, which, as my plans are based on 2 years, wont be for at least 2/3 years unless things turn around quickly for this project to speed up.

Like i said, its not worth announcing yet though as i am fully aware others could , unfortunately, step in and produce this model before i am ready. Them's the breaks.  :scowl:
Cheers
Dave


If you would like some close ups of the roof and associated electrical equipment for the NRM machine, feel free to ask.  Many years ago, my father & I were granted access to the EM1 with ladders provided to photograph the roof.  One of the flaws with the Heljan model came about because they couldn't get access to the roof.  As a result, their model lacked much detail and the overall shape was wrong - partly because most published drawings are wrong too.

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/Alastair_elmarie/Woodhead%20Models/DSC_0001_zpswyirxvdd.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/Alastair_elmarie/media/Woodhead%20Models/DSC_0001_zpswyirxvdd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on January 09, 2016, 10:46:46 AM
I never saw the EM1's in anger im afraid.

However i did  see a line up through the fog at Wath one morning from a coach window on a 'saturday saver' from Banbury to York.

And on their first winter withdrawn and stored at Guide Bridge and Reddish, i got round both (with permission) and got the lot (of those remaining).
I'll never forget the sight at Reddish as i approached over the railway bridge and there were the grounded bodies and 2 line ups of EM1's.
Guide Bridge was done in the dark of night, again with permission, and i cabbed 73013 and took the traction motor lights out of it for a keepsake, that after 20 odd years weren't kept. lol

I've tried to document on my zenfolio site bits that are left or have, like reddish depot, been oblitorated.
It's amazing just how much tangible evidence of the railway is still there.
Cut off catenary bases, original catenary masts and droppers, tunnels, bridges, etc.

A wonderful railway with charismatic locomotives.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Vigo on June 16, 2016, 11:38:38 AM
So. After 6 months or so of inaction, does anyone think there's any future in this idea?

I do hope so :headbutt:
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on June 16, 2016, 02:40:15 PM
I'd like to think so but unless Dave Jones is working on something in the background I just can't see anyone else producing a RTR version :'(
@DJM Dave (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2882)
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on June 16, 2016, 04:18:28 PM
My lips are sealed......but I will say this.....
By the Greek gods, eyebrows!

Those 'in the know' will know what I'm talking about. ;-)
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: NeMo on June 16, 2016, 05:52:43 PM
By the Greek gods, eyebrows!
Those 'in the know' will know what I'm talking about. ;-)

Athena (Minerva*) sprang from Zeus' brow, fully armed and in full cry... but that doesn't sound relevant here... will have to think on this!

Cheers, NeMo

*Though there was, of course, an EM2 called 'Minerva'...
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on June 16, 2016, 08:06:10 PM
Weren't all the names those of Greek gods?
I reckon Dave's got me here :dunce:
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: scruff on June 16, 2016, 11:43:01 PM
Greek gods and stuff on the 76's and goddesses on the 77's???

You've really gotta love @DJM Dave (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2882) and his cryptic hints!! thanks Dave, just learned loads about the Greeks... For over an hour!!  :smiley-laughing:
The wife thinks I've gone nuts!! :laugh3:

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: xm607 on June 17, 2016, 08:52:40 AM
May be something simple check out the rain strips on EM1's there were three types!!!!
Steve
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Vigo on June 17, 2016, 02:36:01 PM
And yet another page of inaction.

So. After 6 months or so of inaction, does anyone think there's any future in this idea?

I do hope so :headbutt:
Enough of the cloak and dagger, the closed book and knowing nods and talk of Greek gods and eyebrows and all that crap.

I would like to spend the thick end of 200 on this, maybe more - who knows?. Would anyone like to tell me whether or not I should bother to start saving?
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on June 17, 2016, 03:27:28 PM

I would like to spend the thick end of 200 on this, maybe more - who knows?. Would anyone like to tell me whether or not I should bother to start saving?

I don't think anyone is going to confirm any action at this point in time but as Dapol are seeking suggestions on their website and the EM1/2s have been suggested I think you could be safe in starting to save but you'll have at least 3 years, I reckon, and who knows what the price will be then?
If I'm still around (and I should be with a 20,000 bit of kit inside me) I'd build a new layout for them along the lines of the annular layout Mini-MSW. It's a poor vid really but there's not a lot of footage on YouTube .............................

Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: 7P5F on June 17, 2016, 04:00:54 PM
Not able to see very clearly but they look like repainted Trix EM1s.

                        Ray.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: woodbury22uk on June 17, 2016, 04:29:53 PM
Not able to see very clearly but they look like repainted Trix EM1s.

                        Ray.

Mini-MSW is a 2mm layout. An article in BRM June 2013 describes the locos as heavily modified resin shell from Masterclass Models and a heavily modified Brawa chassis. It covers many issues about variations in the locos. The May 2013 BRM described the construction of the Mini-MSW layout in considerable detail. The July 2013 BRM describes the design and construction of the catenary.
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: acko22 on June 17, 2016, 07:29:48 PM

be with a 20,000 bit of kit inside me

Nobby what's your address again I could do with some modelling cash and the black market is buoyant at the moment (apparently)  :P
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on June 17, 2016, 08:14:44 PM
Gulp!
The worst thing is you probably know a forces medic who could operate to get it out of me :worried:
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Vigo on September 21, 2016, 10:45:37 AM
 :hmmm:
Another 3 months on and no progress or information either way. I'm beginning to think this project has died a sad and unwarranted death.

Maybe I'll just stick with what I've got.....

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/scorpion_24v/RW%20stuff/Ideas%20for%20Woodhead/20150718_001_zpsi1aoye8p.jpg)
...and spend my 200+ on something else. >:( :veryangry: :censored:

A new matching pair of green EM1's would have been a nice addition to the Hadfield fleet but in the light of the total lack of anything remotely tangible I'm inclined to say forget it  :thumbsdown:

Sorry, but I'm out.

Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Newportnobby on September 21, 2016, 10:57:49 AM
I know what you mean, but never say never.
That man @DJM Dave (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2882) tends to play his cards very close to his chest :hmmm:
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: Vigo on September 21, 2016, 11:45:19 AM
It's all well and good playing your cards close to your chest but if you're asking people to pledge actual money to fund a project then a little information every now and then would be useful, if not just simply polite.

As I read this forum, the last bulletin of actual information we received on the status of this project was December of last year. I admit I don't run a business so I don't profess to know all the ins and outs but I'm smart enough to know that if I did, I'm sure I wouldn't keep investors/customers hanging around for 10 months without letting them now the state of play at least. Stuff the cryptic clues, I want to know one way or the other.

It's not hard, a quick line or two on here would do. Is it a possible go or not? That's all I want to know.

In simple terms, I have a car that needs an engine repair for it's next MoT. Should I spend my money on that instead?
Title: Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
Post by: DJM Dave on September 21, 2016, 11:49:11 AM
As i've been tagged in this thread, can i please point you to a previous posting i made here.....

Please note that nothing has changed, still collating, still saving, still hoping that i can do one, time frame or announcing it when i'm ready still the same.

Nothing to add to the subject hence my silence.
cheers
Dave

Hi everyone,

Just to give you an update on this possible project. However before i start, please note nothing is concrete on this yet, but i want to do it as an altruistic loco development, knowing that i probably wont make money back.
Also i am not formally announcing it until i feel im ready

Here's the update,
1) Some drawings collected and sent to China
2) Quotes from China for this model in powered and un-powered and twin packs with me currently
3) matrix being collated for every member of the class, in every livery variation, not just black, green and blue.
4) Matrix will include ALL versions of EM1, including alternate sides, ends, roof equipment, cab roofs, sand boxes etc
5) Full photo survey of Cab at Manchester Science museum complete
6) Full survey of Cab side at barrow hill including window sizes, and relationship to each other and handrails etc, complete
7) Full Survey of 26020 at York comprising complete check measurements and over 520 high resolution photographs, complete
8) Talks taken place for MSW masts in metal and wires from third party manufacturer on going.

All that remains is to find the cash, which, as my plans are based on 2 years, wont be for at least 2/3 years unless things turn around quickly for this project to speed up.

Like i said, its not worth announcing yet though as i am fully aware others could , unfortunately, step in and produce this model before i am ready. Them's the breaks. :scowl:
Cheers
Dave
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal