N Gauge Forum

Product Reviews => N Gauge Locos and Rolling Stock Reviews => Dapol Steam => Topic started by: barkfast on July 13, 2011, 07:05:39 AM

Title: Dapol Hall
Post by: barkfast on July 13, 2011, 07:05:39 AM
I have been keenly awaiting the release of Dapols new Hall - which apparently should be in shops early August - but it would seem that Dapol are releasing it with the grey wheels similiar to the Britannia....

(http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/images/prod_33701.jpg)

Picture taken from http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/product/33701/ND135D_Dapol_460_Hall_Class_Steam_Locomotive_number_6952

In any case is on my birthday list  ;D
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: anselm on July 13, 2011, 09:25:37 AM
There is an interesting review in Model Rail for August, which I supose we shouldn't quote.  One of their two samples was a poor runner which may not come as a surprise to members of this forum.  I find it amazing that Dapol don't carefully check their locos before sending them out for review!

Ian
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Trev Collins on July 13, 2011, 10:37:13 AM
Carfts & Hobbies have a few Halls for sale on eBay already. I have ordered one from Hatton`s (also a bubble car with speed whiskers!) who are a bit cheaper. Rails Of Sheffield don`t yet give a price I think. I read the review in Railway Modeller.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: OwL on July 13, 2011, 04:50:01 PM
There is an interesting review in Model Rail for August, which I supose we shouldn't quote.  One of their two samples was a poor runner which may not come as a surprise to members of this forum.  I find it amazing that Dapol don't carefully check their locos before sending them out for review!

Ian

I hate to say it but Dapols biggest letdown is not checking their loco's before sending them out anywhere let-alone to Model reviewers. Time and again on this forum many members have discovered 'running issues' straight out of the box with Dapol loco's.
If they keep neglecting their quality control, then their current/potential customers (us lot) will lose faith in all their products based on their model's reputation of poor performance and they will fail to sell any model with a motor inside.
I am very dubious to buy 'first batch' release's of any Dapol loco (steam/Diesel) due to faults i have come across in the past and comments made by other N Gaugers regarding their engines. This is a pity as their models look great, if only we could have Dapol bodies with modern farish mechanisms.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Trev Collins on July 15, 2011, 12:21:56 PM
Dapol Kimberley Hall just arrived from Hatton's (excellent service).
It certainly looks the part. Railway Modeller gave it a mostly favourable review.
I'll be running it later and will have fingers and toes crossed after my recent Britannia experiences.
Still if it's as good as the Ixion Manors I'll be happy!
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Elvinley on July 18, 2011, 07:30:30 PM
There is an interesting review in Model Rail for August, which I supose we shouldn't quote.  One of their two samples was a poor runner which may not come as a surprise to members of this forum.  I find it amazing that Dapol don't carefully check their locos before sending them out for review!

Ian

We should quote it.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: anselm on July 19, 2011, 09:08:18 AM
There is an interesting review in Model Rail for August, which I supose we shouldn't quote.  One of their two samples was a poor runner which may not come as a surprise to members of this forum.  I find it amazing that Dapol don't carefully check their locos before sending them out for review!

Ian

We should quote it.

I agree it would be nice if we could quote from magazine reviews but I believe that the content of commercial magazines is protected by copyright.  I wished to protect Tank (and myself!)  from complaints. Does anyone know for cerain about copyright issues?  :)
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: EtchedPixels on July 19, 2011, 09:50:31 AM
That would be the joys of UK copyright law - which is badly broken in lots of ways particularly with  regards to what the US calls "fair use"

Much of it revolves around common sense though. If you paste the entire article somewhere then the magazine loses sales and reprinting entire articles without permission is rarely permissible, if you quote specific sentences points and reference them then the magazine probably gains sales and in general quoting is ok

The Gowers Report in 2006 concluded UK copyright law was in need of major fixes, but the government of the time and its big media cronies didn't like that so sat on it.

Strangely enough the Hargreaves report commissioned by the current incumbents says basically the same thing and various big media companies are currently busily lobbying MPs hard to get them to take out all the plans for extra rights for end users...
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: scotsoft on July 19, 2011, 10:02:28 AM
Normally if the magazine is contacted and permission is requested to quote from an article they are happy to give that permission as long as you mention the magazine where the article came from.

John
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: poliss on July 19, 2011, 12:59:56 PM
Everything you ever wanted to know about UK patents, trade marks, registered designs and copyright can be found on the Intellectual Property Office website. http://www.ipo.gov.uk/

The US system is much more complicated and confusing. http://www.copyright.gov/ http://www.uspto.gov/patents/index.jsp
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: EtchedPixels on July 19, 2011, 05:43:24 PM
Everything you ever wanted to know about UK patents, trade marks, registered designs and copyright can be found on the Intellectual Property Office website. [url]http://www.ipo.gov.uk/[/url]


Hah!

Even they don't know the answers to most of it. The relevant area in this case is "fair dealing" (which is not the same as the far simpler, saner and more logical US "fair use")

The best the IPO can manage is

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-other/c-exception/c-exception-review/c-exception-fairdealing.htm

Which I think best translates as "we have no clue either, it depends which side of bed the judge got out of that morning". Essentially its a woolly undefined term so only a court can ever decide what is fair dealing, and common sense things like copying your own CD to an ipod is not fair dealing, its an offence !




Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: poliss on July 19, 2011, 06:20:28 PM
I dunno about that. I got lost on the first word of section 107 of the 1976 Copyright Act. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use. The first word is 'Notwithstanding'.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Trev Collins on July 19, 2011, 11:59:37 PM
Quick video of Kimberly Hall on my nowhere near finished layout.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Newportnobby on July 20, 2011, 07:56:59 AM
Nice one,Trev. Looks like a good runner there :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Trev Collins on July 20, 2011, 08:35:47 AM
 :Dapol:
Thanks. It's not quite as noisy as it seems on the vid!
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Karhedron on July 21, 2011, 04:22:02 PM
I hate to say it but Dapols biggest letdown is not checking their loco's before sending them out anywhere let-alone to Model reviewers. Time and again on this forum many members have discovered 'running issues' straight out of the box with Dapol loco's.
As far as I know, no major manufacturer tests their locos before dispatch. The extra time would cost money, especially when you consider they have thousands to test. It is more cost-effective for them to replace/refund failures than to try to weed them out during production.

As far as reputations go, Dapol are middling. One of the big box shifters last year commented that the return rate for failed locos was pretty much the same for both Farish and Dapol. The moral of the story is that the best place to buy your locos is somewhere you can give them a test run before you get them home.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: barkfast on July 23, 2011, 09:19:10 AM
As far as I know, no major manufacturer tests their locos before dispatch. The extra time would cost money, especially when you consider they have thousands to test. It is more cost-effective for them to replace/refund failures than to try to weed them out during production.

As far as reputations go, Dapol are middling. One of the big box shifters last year commented that the return rate for failed locos was pretty much the same for both Farish and Dapol. The moral of the story is that the best place to buy your locos is somewhere you can give them a test run before you get them home.


Its a little disappointing that locos arent tested... especially considering the price we pay for them. I think I would rather pay an extra £5 and know that its a good runner out of the box.

Buying locally is too cost prohibitive... my local hobby stores charge literally twice (if not more) than Hattons or Rails...

Eg Peco Collett Goods (2251 class)
LHS: £286 (https://www.frontlinehobbies.com.au/products/PEC-NL24?Peco%20N%20%20Collettt%20Goods%20GWRGreen%20Late%20Livery%20DCC?Peco%20N%20%20Collettt%20Goods%20GWRGreen%20Late%20Livery%20DCC)
Hattons: £115 (http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=16470)



Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: poliss on July 23, 2011, 01:15:51 PM
The only info I have is that Bachmann test their trains for 100 hours as shown in my link to the inside of their factory. I could not say if other manufacturers test their locos.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Roy L S on July 23, 2011, 01:21:05 PM
That would be pre-production testing to prove the design and iron out any bugs.

In terms of testing off of the production line, I would think only a very small proportion are as I suspect it would simply not be a cost-effective proposition to test every loco these days (Although Farish in Poole days claimed to it is true).

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: elmo on July 23, 2011, 07:37:26 PM
After a long day out, I arrive home to find my club hall had arrived. It is at this moment in time doing the rounds to run it in.
A very quick review - Dapol have taken note about those horrible screws on the Brit and have used nuts on the wheels. A tool is provided in the bits bag. Also of note is the use of a washer on the driving wheel between the drive and connecting rods. Same as the Brit, it means that the driving rod does not have to be bent for it to line up with the cylinders (like farish & Ixion locos) and is not stuck out at an angle like previous dapol.
The loco has the same enclosed gear cogs as the Brit so less chance of fluff getting into the works. As with the Brit the paperwork states 50 hours before the body has to come off (1 screw) for oil to be applied.
I prefer the all metal casting of the wheels over the plastic inserts. I dont know what extra it would put on the price for the spokes to painted a more appropriate colour, but is something that I am willing to do as a trade off for the better wheel.
I have not pulled anything yet but the traction tyre should ensure it beats the Ixion manor which pulls all I wish without tyres. Still running in but I can say that the loco runs very smoothly from a crawl upwards.
Sofar very impressed. I will be buying more and my farish Halls complete with my own enhancements look destined to remain in the display cabinet.
Elmo
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Sithlord75 on July 26, 2011, 07:50:49 AM
Quick video of Kimberly Hall on my nowhere near finished layout.



running is great in this vid - thanks for uploading.  The wheels are a turn off.  I know I can paint them but why??  Fixing errors isn't modelling (putting headcodes on is however - just to highlight the difference!)
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Dr Al on August 12, 2011, 11:13:53 PM
I've improved my Hall with painted wheels, thinned crossheads and all the motion painted to match:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/41123-dapol-hall/page__view__findpost__p__460509

Makes a big difference IMHO.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Newportnobby on August 13, 2011, 04:09:13 PM
I've improved my Hall with painted wheels, thinned crossheads and all the motion painted to match:

[url]http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/41123-dapol-hall/page__view__findpost__p__460509[/url]

Makes a big difference IMHO.

Cheers,
Alan


Excellent work, Alan. It has made a world of difference to a rather 'odd' looking loco :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: barkfast on August 16, 2011, 04:44:08 AM
I've improved my Hall with painted wheels, thinned crossheads and all the motion painted to match:

[url]http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/41123-dapol-hall/page__view__findpost__p__460509[/url]



Great work Alan - looks amazing!

Whats the running qualities like?
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Crackerbill on August 17, 2011, 05:32:54 PM
I am impressed by the reports in this forum on this loco, therefore I have made an order with Hattons today for a Kimberley Hall.  (name of my grandaughter - Kimberley not Hall!!) :smiley-laughing:

I expect the model within the next few days and am looking foreward to it.  I will of course report on the quality of running as soon as I run it in. 

I did request it to be delivered by Royal Mail,  due to the horror stories reported earlier.

Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: elmo on August 17, 2011, 07:14:17 PM
I am impressed by the reports in this forum on this loco, therefore I have made an order with Hattons today for a Kimberley Hall.  (name of my grandaughter - Kimberley not Hall!!) :smiley-laughing:

I expect the model within the next few days and am looking foreward to it.  I will of course report on the quality of running as soon as I run it in. 

I did request it to be delivered by Royal Mail,  due to the horror stories reported earlier.


I hope all goes well. My two are still doing fine but I have not got round to painting the wheels yet. I will be having one pristine ex-works and the other rather filthy.
Pleased to hear that your grandaughter is not named hall :-X ;D
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Elvinley on August 17, 2011, 10:20:48 PM
http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=38967

Thay have done exactly the same thing as with the Brit. Gone and painted everything that horrible grey.

Why won't they listen to what everyone wants?
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Dr Al on August 17, 2011, 10:31:00 PM
[url]http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=38967[/url]

Thay have done exactly the same thing as with the Brit. Gone and painted everything that horrible grey.

Why won't they listen to what everyone wants?


It's emphasised given that this loco's bodywork is black, highlighting just how grey the wheels are.

Dapol are like that though - they don't like to admit their wrong, instead coming up with ropey reasons why it's right...

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Sithlord75 on August 17, 2011, 10:46:01 PM
[url]http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=38967[/url]

Thay have done exactly the same thing as with the Brit. Gone and painted everything that horrible grey.

Why won't they listen to what everyone wants?


It's emphasised given that this loco's bodywork is black, highlighting just how grey the wheels are.

Dapol are like that though - they don't like to admit their wrong, instead coming up with ropey reasons why it's right...

Cheers,
Alan


And they have their band of supporters who help with the justification - almost like they are a political party, rather than a business!  I expect politicians to preach about issues, but a business should be listening to their customers.  The price changes in the B1 speak volume for what the market chose.   Ho hum - I will wait for the inevitable price drop on the Hall before I get one and then I will fix the errors before I do some modelling with weathering, headcodes and what not.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Dr Al on August 17, 2011, 10:50:13 PM
And they have their band of supporters who help with the justification - almost like they are a political party, rather than a business! 

Yes, sadly there are many Dapol fanboys. I don't mind folk liking products, but it can go too far.

The price changes in the B1 speak volume for what the market chose.   Ho hum - I will wait for the inevitable price drop on the Hall before I get one and then I will fix the errors before I do some modelling with weathering, headcodes and what not.

Already the market has spoken - the first Halls on ebay were selling £20 under the cheapest box-shifter....

...why do you think I got one! Would never have paid retail for it!!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: painbrook on August 17, 2011, 10:53:21 PM
Hopefully they are improving with every new loco . I must admit I wo'nt mind painting the grey wheels on their next loco , (yes you've guessed it) , an unrebuilt 'patriot'  ;D ;D . cheers john . Hopefully Mr 'dapol' reads the forum  ;) ..
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Elvinley on August 17, 2011, 11:33:12 PM
It's annoying when fanboys seem to hold a lot of clout on certain forums which will remain nameless. (I still post on their but have 'moderated status' for telling it like it is). What I love about this forum is the freedom of speech allowed. Hopefully more Ngaugers will read the posts on here which are written with honesty and integrity and without fear of upsetting a company that persists in doing things badly. It is such a shame as they get so much right like the coaches and wagons. Even some of the early locos which had their faults were better runners than some of the more recent ones. I have two underpowered 14XXs running right now. Double headed they are fine. They don't overheat and are silent. On the other line I have a Brit which is running warmly and noisily around my railway. I recently bought a new class 58 from a friend. This is also a warm runner. I hope with gentle running in it will improve. Any Dapol loco purchase is a gamble, and that is totally wrong.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Dr Al on August 17, 2011, 11:51:29 PM
It's annoying when fanboys seem to hold a lot of clout on certain forums which will remain nameless. (I still post on their but have 'moderated status' for telling it like it is). What I love about this forum is the freedom of speech allowed. Hopefully more Ngaugers will read the posts on here which are written with honesty and integrity and without fear of upsetting a company that persists in doing things badly. It is such a shame as they get so much right like the coaches and wagons. Even some of the early locos which had their faults were better runners than some of the more recent ones. I have two underpowered 14XXs running right now. Double headed they are fine. They don't overheat and are silent. On the other line I have a Brit which is running warmly and noisily around my railway. I recently bought a new class 58 from a friend. This is also a warm runner. I hope with gentle running in it will improve. Any Dapol loco purchase is a gamble, and that is totally wrong.

The silent majority aren't stupid though. It's the vocal fanboys that look stupid pushing Dapol for all their worth, but franky, it doesn't work. That's quite clear from the increasingly desperate attempts model shops are undertaking to shift piles of B1s - Kernow, Hattons, Rails, Model Rail direct are all heavily discounting as they have not shifted them. That implies they simply aren't selling, and I'm sure that wouldn't be the case if there was no competition, as in this case the competition is simply superior IMHO.

And Gaugemaster were heavily discounting the Britannias before they even came out!!!

Bachmann aren't stupid either. They don't trumpet about things being the best thing since sliced bread like Dapol do - instead they just keep quietly raising the bar above Dapol. The next thing looks to be the introduction of a coreless motor drive promised for the 5MT and WD 2-8-0s - certainly a first for British N gauge and may potentially further transform performance (coreless motors don't 'cog' between poles so should be even smoother!).

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Elvinley on August 18, 2011, 12:18:41 AM
(http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/l.aspx?k=1209056)

(http://www.ehattons.com/images/products/ND135C_33423_Qty1_1.jpg)

Try not to weep too much as you look at this comparison between the OO Bachmann Hall and the N Dapol one.

Why oh why didn't Farish produce one.

The lining is indeed wrong and the grey wheels and rods are horrible. The running board is bent up, the BR logo appears too small etc etc.

I would forgive all this if I knew it wouldn't overheat and run badly.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Sithlord75 on August 18, 2011, 12:25:49 AM
It would appear Farish is concentrating on LMS/BR types - although I was very disappointed when Farish cancelled their 9F.  I guess on the upside we may see the Patriot and un-rebuilt Scot come along - just as soon as they sort out a Fowler tender.  With any degree of luck we may soon see a redone Duchess ( :thumbsup:) and 8F  (:thumbsup:) which would be very nice too.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Elvinley on August 18, 2011, 12:29:41 AM
It certainly would! A streamlined Duchess would be amazing. I am looking forward to the A1 one though - looks fantastic.

(http://images.nitrosell.com/product_images/11/2621/large-372-801.jpg)

Look upon this beauty and then flick back to the Dapol Hall.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: 4x2 on August 18, 2011, 12:37:02 AM
([url]http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/l.aspx?k=1209056[/url])

([url]http://www.ehattons.com/images/products/ND135C_33423_Qty1_1.jpg[/url])

Try not to weep too much as you look at this comparison between the OO Bachmann Hall and the N Dapol one.

Why oh why didn't Farish produce one.

Dear Mr Dapol,
                      For my birthday i would like the following...

A loco that goes forwards and backwards with out a gallon of 20w50
A loco that can go slow and have a realistic top speed without the 747 take off noise
A loco that will make it to it's first birthday without ANY tweeking
A loco that has decent wheels - not matchboxes finest
A loco on which the colour is actually the same as the real thing

And finally, can you make it the new Western please.... I REALLY want it to be good, but your track record sucks
and i cannot afford to waste £100+ on an expensive duffer.

Yours hopefully
                       One Happy FARISH/UNION MILLS/PECO customer. :evil:
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Dr Al on August 18, 2011, 09:16:02 AM
The lining is indeed wrong and the grey wheels and rods are horrible. The running board is bent up, the BR logo appears too small etc etc.


Yes, the BR logo is wrong aswell. It should be large - photos of the prototype loco (6910) show this is true:

http://www.north-wales-collectables.com/-p-12955.html

The lining is easy to paint out on a black loco at least.

Also:

The crosshead is way overscale (totally clunky in fact) and it's something I had a go at addressing with my model by thinning them out. Having done this, I can conclude that there is no obvious mechanical reason for the crosshead being this large. Also it's black plastic which breaks up the unity of the colouring of the value gear. One plus point of the Dapol model compared to the Bachmann is that the slide bars on the OO model look fairly large and clunky by comparison.

As for the wheels....well given that the loco is black, it comprehesively emphasises how incorrect they are. Shame, as the actual castings are very good.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Crackerbill on August 18, 2011, 12:23:44 PM
Received my Dapol Hall today - really fast delivery from Hattons as I ordered it only yesterday.

So far a mixed reception, seems to run OK but obviously needs a good run in. 

My major problem however is as follows:-

Fitting a DCC decoder has been somewhat strange. I first tried a Bachmann 6pin chip and although things worked absolutely correctly, I can't get the tender body back in place.  (a known problem with Dapol steam with this decoder)  I have tried two separate DCC23 gaugemaster chips as these are smaller, but the loco lies dead.  I have also tried a TCS EU651 6pin chip and again the loco refuses to work.  All these chips work perfectly in my diesels.

So here I am running the loco on my layout using the Bachmann chip but with the tender body perched on the top.

Has anyone got any advice or suggestions on how I can get this loco to work correctly with the tender fully in place.

Apart from surgery to the underside of the tender I have no idea how to solve this one and of course that would invalidate any warranty.  As I seem to have got a runner, I don't really want to attemt to go through Hattons stock until I find one that ackles properly  i.e. alows the tender to fit over a bachmann chip or works with some other decoder).  I will contact Hattons later for any advice they can give but I'm sure that as box movers they will probably not have anything further.

Any advice will be gratefully received.
Bill
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Crackerbill on August 18, 2011, 04:41:41 PM
I have contacted Hattons in regard to this wayward loco and they were sympathetic and offered a replacement.  I stated that I am very disallusioned with Dapol steam outline, (I think I have had just about every problem with the d*****d things that anyone could have) and have returned all but one.  That one I had to "fix" to make it run properly, but at least it was a bargain basement type.  This is the last straw no more Dapol steamers for me.   :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:  "Mr Dapol" take heed there are lots of people out there who are like minded and the numbers are growing.   :evil: :evil:

I requested a Farish/Bachmann B1 - Oliver Bury - to replace it.  They readily agreed and so the "heap" is now packed ready for posting in the morning.  Hope this one is up to the standards as reported in this forum.   :-\
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Elvinley on August 18, 2011, 11:29:51 PM
The Farish B1 is excellent. I did however have trouble with one I bought and this was returned. It was nowhere as smooth running as it should have been. Just make sure you get a quiet running one with freely moving valve gear.

Back to the Hall. Here is another new release:

http://railsofsheffield.com/hall-class-6953-leighton-hall-gwr-lined-green-livery-with-gw-crest-on-tender-nd135b-JJJA18024.aspx

Is it me, or is that crest massive? Stange lining on this one too.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: 4x2 on August 18, 2011, 11:41:01 PM
The Farish B1 is excellent. I did however have trouble with one I bought and this was returned. It was nowhere as smooth running as it should have been. Just make sure you get a quiet running one with freely moving valve gear.

Back to the Hall. Here is another new release:

[url]http://railsofsheffield.com/hall-class-6953-leighton-hall-gwr-lined-green-livery-with-gw-crest-on-tender-nd135b-JJJA18024.aspx[/url]

Is it me, or is that crest massive? Stange lining on this one too.

Hello mate ! Yes, the crest and wording on the tender look for too big. Also the loco colour is just not right, looks to bright - dare i say too much yellow in the green ? oh and don't forget the wheels !
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Elvinley on August 18, 2011, 11:57:48 PM
I wonder who makes these clever decisions?
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: silly moo on August 19, 2011, 05:29:34 PM
Hello,

I'll always be grateful to Dapol for making two of my favourite locos, The terrier and the Q1. It's a shame they keep on making silly livery mistakes and their quality control is a bit hit and miss. I also have the perception that their locos won't stand the test of time. Farish ones just seem to be a bit more robust and easier to dismantle.

I hope that Dapol will continue to improve their steam locos, the only reason that I haven't taken the chance and bought any of their recent offerings is that they don't appeal to me.

But at the end of the day they are a lot better than anything I could have scratch built.

Regards

Veronica
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Karhedron on September 02, 2011, 09:33:36 AM
I am slightly disappointed by the number of detail errors on the Hall. So far I have counted the following errors. Rather than just list them and grumble, I have also suggested some fixes for those who are willing to fettle their locos.

1. Firebox lining (BR Early crest and late crest models). In BR days, ex-GWR locos such as Halls did not usually have lined fireboxes. The lining was only applied to the barrel of the boiler. The lining can either be scraped off carefully with a very fine scalpel or painted over with a suitably matched paint.

2. Cabside lining (GWR models). The lined GWR models produced so far (Leighton Hall, Mottram Hall and Hinderton Hall) all have incorrect cabside lining in the style only applied after nationalisation. Before 1948, the lining on GWR loco cabsides went up over the cab side windows. This can be fixed with lining transfers from Fox.

3. Fire iron tunnel. This is the small feature next to the firebox on the opposite side as the reverse lever. These were introduced on Hall 5920 and should be present on all Halls from then on and all modified Halls. The model without fire iron tunnel is only correct for Halls 4901 - 5919. Most of the Halls in the current batch are numbered after 5920 so the fire iron tunnel should be present. If you are keeping the model identity then a white metal GWR fire iron tunnel can be bought from P&D Marsh (it is not on their website but can probably be ordered from them direct as it is a component in several of their loco kits). The other alternative is to rename and renumber your Hall to one in the range 4901-5919. Etched plates are available from several suppliers such as ModelMaster.

4. Smokebox number plate font (BR models). For BR models the font of the numbering on the smokebox number plate is incorrect. It should be on the BR sans serif font. Transfers are available from Fox and ModelMaster to correct this.

5. Black wheels. Some photos may show engines with metal coloured wheels or with a sheen (possibly caused by oil). However the official paint specification for loco wheels in both GWR and BR days was painted black. A coat of black on the drivers would improve the look of the wheels immensly.

6. Red-spot. All Halls were red-spot locomotives. Gossington Hall incorrectly has a blue spot and should be replaced with one from Fox. All other models are correct on this point.

7. Gossington Hall only. Replace the small early crest on the tender with a larger one. This photo clearly shows that Gossington Hall carried a large early crest on its tender.

8. Leighton Hall only. The emblem on the tender is too large on this one. Again transfers from Fox to fix.

One could argue that we should not have to make so many fixes to a £100 loco but at the end of the day, that is what is on the shelves. As a WR modeller, I really want a Hall or two in my fleet and the Dapol model (with all its faults) is still a big improvement on the old Farish one. If others feel they don't want a Hall with those issues then that is their choice not to buy.

I have Gossington Hall and I plan to run through some (or even all) of the above points over the autumn. I will post the results on here for people to see. Hopefully Dapol will fix these issues in future batches and in the modified Halls.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Newportnobby on September 02, 2011, 09:37:43 AM
Thanks for a really interesting and comprehensive post, especially as you have offered solutions to the problems :thumbsup:
I'm sure this will help everyone who is considering or has bought this loco. :)
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: GrahamB on September 11, 2011, 12:02:02 PM
I picked up my Hall from the Dapol stand at the International N Gauge show yesterday. At £85 it was rude not to.

It's a good runner and "those wheels" don't look so bad when it's on the layout.

However, my example will not take 9" radius curves so be warned. It now means I've got to relay my test track. It runs fine on the layout.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Karhedron on September 11, 2011, 01:54:08 PM
I have just taken a CD marker (like an OHP pen) to the wheels on my Dapol Hall and the improvement is significant. The good thing about this is that if you do not like the finish then it can be removed with a dab of meths.

(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_09_2011/blogentry-887-0-86221100-1315688319_thumb.jpg)
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Newportnobby on September 11, 2011, 04:16:01 PM
A vast improvement but can the same be done to the motion? I have too many kettles with bright shiny motion (as per my avatar) ::)
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Dr Al on September 11, 2011, 05:47:41 PM
A vast improvement but can the same be done to the motion? I have too many kettles with bright shiny motion (as per my avatar) ::)

To be honest the motion looks ok for a loco ex-works. Except for the black plastic overscale crosshead which I felt it necessary to address on my loco.

Any locos with too shiny a valve gear can be toned down simply with a  wash of thinned black paint. I've found it possible to match the blackening on Farish models doing this (one Crab I bought s/hand was missing a rod and I only had an original English production replacement, but after painting you'd never know).

Best Regards,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Karhedron on September 11, 2011, 06:37:25 PM
A vast improvement but can the same be done to the motion? I have too many kettles with bright shiny motion (as per my avatar) ::)
I don't see why not. On the Hall I think it looks OK, having motions lighter than the wheels is fine for an ex-works loco. But if you have older farish models with bright silver motions then this could be an easy way to improve them.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: MTSI Rail on October 12, 2011, 07:55:34 PM
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has helped me to finally decide about buying a Hall - on balance of what I've read, Dapol won't be getting my custom. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: For what has to be done to make it presentable it just isn't worth the money unless they really start to knock them out like they had to with the B1. Anyway, I'm not a great GWR fan  ::) ::) - it was only to reflect the daily incursion on my GC main line based project which is still  to get beyond the bare baseboard state! I can quite well manage without a Hall - another Farish B1 would be more appropriate and a better buy to boot!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Elvinley on April 02, 2012, 12:15:15 PM
I did buy a Hall a few months ago as I decided it was neccessary to have a Hall running on Elvinley now and again! I opted for the GWR livery one which although a little bit on the light side of green, looks good generally. The grey wheels have of course now been painted black. I have to say that so far this loco has been a really good runner. Hope it keeps it up.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: scruff on July 19, 2012, 12:52:03 PM
Dapol announced yesterday several new versions of the Un-Modified Hall.
These include DCC Fitted versions.

2S-010-000   HALL #4937 ‘LANELAY HALL’      GWR LINED GREEN
2S-010-000D HALL #4937 ‘LANELAY HALL’      GWR LINED GREEN DCC FITTED
2S-010-001   HALL #4951 ‘PENDEFORD HALL’ BR LINED GREEN LATE CREST
2S-010-001D HALL #4951 ‘PENDEFORD HALL’ BR LINED GREEN LATE CREST DCC FITTED
2S-010-002   HALL #4914 ‘CRANMORE HALL’  BR LINED GREEN LATE CREST
2S-010-002D HALL #4914 ‘CRANMORE HALL’  BR LINED GREEN LATE CREST DCC FITTED
2S-010-003   HALL #4958 ‘PRIORY HALL’       GWR LINED GREEN
2S-010-003D HALL #4958 ‘PRIORY HALL’       GWR LINED GREEN DCC FITTED

Cheers

Mark
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Karhedron on July 19, 2012, 12:59:45 PM
Interesting to note that they are all from the 49xx range meaning that the Dapol model is correct as these did not have fire iron tunnels.

Hope they get the lining right this time. ;)
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Andy007 on October 11, 2012, 05:42:42 PM
 :) I have a Dapol n gauge Hall class and it is absolutely SUPERB!

I spent 25 years in oo gauge and I have never had a loco run so smoothly or so slowly without interuption.

However I took the trouble (as did Gaugemaster at Ford kindly do so) to find the best runner thay had in stock over a period of 5 days. I believe they found some that were poor.

Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Karhedron on March 15, 2013, 09:01:55 PM
The new batch of Halls has started arriving. Details and photos have started appearing on a new thread.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=12205.msg125390#msg125390 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=12205.msg125390#msg125390)
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Karhedron on February 07, 2017, 10:08:31 PM
Resurrecting this thread after a long hiatus as I have discovered an interesting but of info. When Dapol first released "Norton Hall" there was some confusion as it was painted in the post-war style livery normally associated with "lesser" engines. No lining and "GWR" on the tender. Not the livery normally found on Halls (with the noted exception of oil-burner Garth Hall).

(https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/ND135A_33421_Qty1_1.jpg)

Anyway, it turns out that Dapol were not so far off. Immediately after WW2, several Collett Halls going through the works did in fact receive unlined green, even though the new built modified Halls coming out at the same time were in fully lined green. See below.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8288/7829554750_ff103f7dc8_o.jpg)

The only difference between the Dapol model and "Ripon Hall" is that Dapol have put "GWR" on the tender whereas in fact it should be "G crest W". The tender logo can be replaced fairly easily with fox tranfers. So if anyone has a model of Norton Hall and would like to spruce it up and make it historically accurate, this would appear to be the way to go.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Elvinley on February 07, 2017, 10:26:34 PM
I do indeed have this one. The shade of green is sadly very washed out but since I weathered it the loco looks reasonable. The wheels were also painted black along with other additions like real coal, a crew and various other details.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: johnlambert on February 10, 2017, 07:53:11 PM
Resurrecting this thread after a long hiatus as I have discovered an interesting but of info. When Dapol first released "Norton Hall" there was some confusion as it was painted in the post-war style livery normally associated with "lesser" engines. No lining and "GWR" on the tender. Not the livery normally found on Halls (with the noted exception of oil-burner Garth Hall).

Thanks for this information; I bought a second hand Norton Hall and wondered if the livery was accurate.

Quote
The only difference between the Dapol model and "Ripon Hall" is that Dapol have put "GWR" on the tender whereas in fact it should be "G crest W". The tender logo can be replaced fairly easily with fox tranfers. So if anyone has a model of Norton Hall and would like to spruce it up and make it historically accurate, this would appear to be the way to go.  :thumbsup:

Thanks again, that's something I can do to improve my Hall.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: longbow on February 20, 2017, 07:39:25 AM
I'm considering renaming a Dapol Hall using FoxMaster etched nameplates. Do the old plates come off pretty easily?
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Dr Al on February 20, 2017, 09:08:10 AM
I'm considering renaming a Dapol Hall using FoxMaster etched nameplates. Do the old plates come off pretty easily?

Yes, with a thin scalpel blade you can get in behind them and gently prise them off.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Rowlie on February 22, 2017, 08:43:49 PM
Yes, the nameplates and cab numbers come off really easily, I changed a Hall and Manor last year. The cab numbers sit in a recess and the nameplates fit on a removable backplate that is stepped to accommodate the etched plate, so a little care is needed in removing the original plates.  The recesses however, make fitting the new plates very straightforward. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: longbow on September 04, 2018, 01:34:16 PM
Can somebody confirm please whether the early release Dapol Halls (ie those with the ND prefix) are DCC ready.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Dr Al on September 04, 2018, 01:35:58 PM
All Dapol Halls are NEM651 6 pin DCC ready.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: longbow on December 27, 2018, 07:05:16 AM
I have now acquired an early Hall (ND135C) and it is indeed DCC ready. But unlike later versions the tender PCB design precludes the use of larger decoders such as the popular Zimo MX622N.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: NeilWhite on December 27, 2018, 07:54:39 AM
Hi

Yes, the early Halls had a sloped fitting for the DCC chip. At the time I fitted a couple with (I think) CT Elektronik DC76x chips (I think that's the right code). In fact, few (if any) of Dapol's then-recommended chips would fit without hacking into (through??) the top of the tender.

An easy alternative is to strip all the mounting stuff out and solder in a 6-wire chip. This is NOT for the faint-hearted, but is fairly straightforward if you've done a few wired chip fittings and have medium+ soldering/wiring skills.

Note that this procedure will DEFINITELY void your warranty! But I guess that has expired anyway for locos of this age!

Neil
 
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Paul-H on December 27, 2018, 07:58:31 AM
And as reported elsewhere the new design PCB, which Dapol deny exists does not even allow the use of the usual Gaugemaster DCC23, so Watch out for the tender hitting the decoder and not fitting properly. Dapol recommend taking a dremel to the underside of the tender roof to make extra room.  Typical Dapol.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: longbow on December 27, 2018, 08:12:50 AM
The sloped fitting appears to be the same in both versions. However the later pcb design in my Pembleton Hall (2S-010-001) inverts the decoder socket and creates enough extra room to fit a MX622N without any cutting, so it would certainly fit a DCC23.

Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: JayM481 on March 17, 2019, 09:40:57 PM
I resurrected this thread since I just encountered the chip-fitting issues mentioned here and in this other thread (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41997.0). I have two Dapol Halls, one is the Osborne's exclusive Hinderton Hall which has the old product code (ND-135OSB1) and the newer Lanelay Hall (code 2S-010-000). Here's a photo of the different PCBs (Hinderton closest to the camera):
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/75/4721-170319010419.jpeg)

I tried a couple of decoders I have on hand - DCC Concepts Zen ZN6D and a Gaugemaster DCC28 and neither would fit. I have a couple of Zimo MX622N chips still in the plastic, but I have a feeling they won't fit either, though perhaps in Lanelay Hall if I float the PCB as mentioned in other threads. I'm guessing the PCB in Hinderton Hall may require surgery, or I'll have to resort to hard-wiring as the OP of the thread above did.

I am considering buying a couple of CT Elektronik mini decoders, but I'm on the wrong side of the pond for that. Looking at a chart of decoder sizes, it seems they may well be the only ones that will fit the older version. Does anyone have an older Dapol Hall with factory-fitted DCC who might have a photo of it with the tender top off? I have to wonder how they fitted anything with that PCB in the way.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: longbow on March 17, 2019, 10:22:42 PM
I did squeeze an MX622N into a late model Hall tender. I have a smaller CT DCX77z in my early-model Hall which has less room, but the equally tiny Zimo MX616 would also fit.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: NeilWhite on March 17, 2019, 11:28:32 PM
I've got a CT Electronik DCX76 (the six-pin version of this: https://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/products/cte/dcx76-series (https://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/products/cte/dcx76-series)) in one of my Halls with that type of PCB.  Yes, it does fit. That particular chip may not be available now, but either (a) there is a more recent CT Electronik chip of similar size, or (b) this will give some guidance on what size chip you need.

An alternative is to strip out the PCB and solder in a wired decoder. This is fairly straightforward, and once the PCB is removed you have quite a bit more room. I've done this on one of my Halls.

I've heard talk of excavating out of the top of the tender body to make room, but I doubt that there is enough thickness in the tender top to make this viable.

Neil
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: JayM481 on March 17, 2019, 11:46:50 PM
I did squeeze an MX622N into a late model Hall tender. I have a smaller CT DCX77z in my early-model Hall which has less room, but the equally tiny Zimo MX616 would also fit.

In post #8 of the thread I linked to the OP found the MX616 didn't fit either, though the DCX77z is a few mm shorter than the Zimo, and about 1mm thinner than the MX616, I think. I can get Zimo chips this side of the pond, but not CT.

I still wonder how they did a DCC-fitted version of any of the models with that larger PCB.

If I end up frustrated enough to remove the PCB I'll consider fitting sound.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: longbow on March 18, 2019, 12:40:13 AM
Just checked and the MX616 is indeed a little longer and fatter than the CT DCX77z, so the latter is the only one I've tried that's a verified fit in the earlier PCB. It looks as though one could make more room for the decoder by grinding off the bottom of the PCB below the socket and repositioning it, either by drilling new mounting holes or even by mounting it upside down. But that's probably more hassle than tearing it all out and hard-wiring a decoder. There's a guide to sound fitting the Dapol Hall here:

 http://www.youchoos.co.uk/Index-Resource.php?L1=Guides&Item=DapolNHall (http://www.youchoos.co.uk/Index-Resource.php?L1=Guides&Item=DapolNHall)
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Paul-H on March 18, 2019, 07:27:51 AM
It's not just the Halls that have this issue.

I have two of their 9F's and it's the same with them, the early one takes the Gaugemaster DCC23 without issue but the latter one with the self centering spring on the front pony does not, it hits to tender roof as with the Hall, tried a number of different decoders and the only one that fitted and allowed the tender to fit was the Zimo MX616.

Dapol deny changing the PCB, but they are clearly different as can be seen in the photo a few posts above.

Paul
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: JayM481 on March 19, 2019, 01:53:49 AM
I haven't checked my other Dapol "DCC-ready" locos yet, but I'll be doing so. I tried to buy a couple of Digitrax DZ126s today and the shop was out, plus I discovered Digitrax's factory and entire stock was wiped out by a hurricane a few months ago, so existing stocks are running out. I wonder how Gaugemaster's stock is?

Looks like I'll be ordering a few CT decoders. I may have to add a few more after I check my locos for sizing.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: longbow on April 06, 2019, 12:25:57 PM
Hattons and Rails have opened order books for four new Dapol Hall versions including BR lined Black, due 2Q 2019.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Newportnobby on April 06, 2019, 01:17:26 PM
Much though I'd like a Hall, reviews in many threads have failed to convince me Dapol have produced a good model. here's a more recent thread where at least the wheel colours are correct.

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=12205.0 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=12205.0)
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: longbow on April 06, 2019, 10:03:30 PM
AFAIK all the issues with early versions - wheels, lining errors - were corrected in previous batches and in my experience the Hall is a good runner. Perhaps this batch will get a NEM651 DCC socket, which would simplify decoder fitting.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Caz on April 07, 2019, 08:58:33 PM
Brilliant loco Mick, I've got 4 of them, all fitted with sound and lights and they are all great runners, you just have to be careful on how you pick them up.  Motion and drive shaft are the usual problems caused by clumsy handling.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Karhedron on April 08, 2019, 09:38:17 AM
AFAIK all the issues with early versions - wheels, lining errors - were corrected in previous batches and in my experience the Hall is a good runner. Perhaps this batch will get a NEM651 DCC socket, which would simplify decoder fitting.

Agreed, they are nice locos. The first batch had some livery errors but the 2nd and subsequent batches are all correct as far as I am aware. It will be interesting to see if they have got the firebox right with no lining on Moreton Hall as this is only the 2nd one they have done in BR black livery.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Newportnobby on April 08, 2019, 09:53:39 AM
Brilliant loco Mick, I've got 4 of them, all fitted with sound and lights and they are all great runners, you just have to be careful on how you pick them up.  Motion and drive shaft are the usual problems caused by clumsy handling.

Problem is @Caz (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=202) I have so much on pre order loco and rolling stock wise. I may have to wait until I get more birthday/Christmas vouchers and hope there are still some left
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: JayM481 on April 21, 2019, 01:12:33 AM
Finally got a selection of decoders to try. Fitted the CT Elektronik DCX76 which is a very thin decoder with components only on one side. It fits perfectly into the later version Hall (in my case Lanelay Hall), and is the same square dimensions as the blanking plug, and almost as thin.

With the decoder on DCC the loco runs slowly, and has a very pronounced hum. On DC without the decoder installed it's one of the best-running Dapol locos I have, but it won't run at all on DC with this decoder (I know I probably need to change a CV to allow DC running, though I don't plan to run it on DC). Is the hum and poor perfrmance decoder setup-related, or would it improve if I removed some of the DC running components like the capacitors? I've seen some info on both approaches in various places, but my Google-fu is failing me tonight.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: longbow on April 21, 2019, 01:31:24 AM
Try Nigel Cliffe's excellent 2mm decoder tuning tutorial

http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/CT-decoders.htm (http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/CT-decoders.htm)
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: JayM481 on April 21, 2019, 01:44:56 AM
Thank you! That was one of the articles I remember seeing, but I forgot too much info to find it in a search. Bookmarked now.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: longbow on September 27, 2019, 11:36:42 AM
The latest Dapol Hall versions (2S-101-004 through 007) are now in stock at Hattons. Look forward to pics and news of any mods from the previous run.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Bob G on September 27, 2019, 07:33:55 PM
AFAIK all the issues with early versions - wheels, lining errors - were corrected in previous batches and in my experience the Hall is a good runner. Perhaps this batch will get a NEM651 DCC socket, which would simplify decoder fitting.

Agreed, they are nice locos. The first batch had some livery errors but the 2nd and subsequent batches are all correct as far as I am aware. It will be interesting to see if they have got the firebox right with no lining on Moreton Hall as this is only the 2nd one they have done in BR black livery.

Do you know what was wrong with the first BR lined black one. I have this model and apart from the driving wheels (fixed) and the odd white lining (same with their Schools loco - too bright), is there anything else that is out of kilter.
All my Halls (and my Grange with the Hall tender) run superbly. Its the newer designed Manor tender that they put on early BR Granges too that is pants for free running and pickup.

Best
Bob
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Karhedron on September 27, 2019, 09:28:15 PM
Agreed, they are nice locos. The first batch had some livery errors but the 2nd and subsequent batches are all correct as far as I am aware. It will be interesting to see if they have got the firebox right with no lining on Moreton Hall as this is only the 2nd one they have done in BR black livery.

Do you know what was wrong with the first BR lined black one. I have this model and apart from the driving wheels (fixed) and the odd white lining (same with their Schools loco - too bright), is there anything else that is out of kilter.
All my Halls (and my Grange with the Hall tender) run superbly. Its the newer designed Manor tender that they put on early BR Granges too that is pants for free running and pickup.

There were a couple of errors. There was a Blue route indicator circle on the cab. In reality the Halls were Red route locos and the other variants all have red circles. Secondly the firebox is lined which is incorrect for BR days. Thirdly they picked a loco which had a fire-iron tunnel fitted from new. Dapol have modeled the earlier Halls with no tunnels so are only correct for locos up to somewhere in the 59xx series.

The early crest logo on the tender is also much too small, kit should be quite a bit larger. If you are being really pedantic I believe the smokebox numberplate is in the wrong font but that one really is for perfectionists. ;)
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: Karhedron on September 27, 2019, 09:30:52 PM
Dapol seem to have a bit of a blind spot with GWR route indicators. They have also given the Granges blue circles whereas in reality they were red route locos and marked accordingly.
Title: Re: Dapol Hall
Post by: longbow on September 28, 2019, 12:28:43 AM
The early Halls had the decoder socket mounted horizontally whilst on later versions it was mounted at an angle, allowing a Zimo MX622N to be squeezed in.

Just seen a pic of the new early BR version - Dapol have corrected the boiler lining but not the RA logos or the too-small crest.
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