I've just been reading a thread on RMWeb about the new digital version of Model Rail which has intially been launched for iPads with an Android version to follow.
I have an iPad which I really like and an HP laptop which is a bit old and slow - like me. What I don't really understand is why there is so much animosity towards Apple products from some quarters. :confused1:
I do like Apple products beacause they are so easy to use and look beautiful but if something else that I like comes along and it makes sense to buy it then I will do so.
Regards
Veronica.
Part of the human psyche, people become attached to brands (which manufacturers take advantage of), and some people are defensive of something they have bought. If the item bought is criticised then the person who made the purchase may feel criticised for their decision. This is also apparent in the car market. Do you know anyone who always buy the same marque of car? Oh and the software market. My OS is better (bigger) than yours.
Note I have not mentioned gender. ::) :laugh: :bounce:
I am not completely anti apple, I dislike they way you need to use things like itunes when other mp3 players you just bung a load of mp3 files on and you are off, bit of a monopoly there :thumbsdown:
Apple computers are superb if you are working with graphics, they leave Windows based PC's way behind. It has been a while since I used an Apple computer but when I did I found the software easy to learn to use and it was Apple who invented the GUI which made computing much easier for folk to grasp :thumbsup:
cheers John.
Interesting question Veronica. I have to say people I find people who are vocal on either side of the apple / anti-apple camp just as annoying.
I currently use Win 7, a Linux based distro (hats off to Etched Pixels :) ) and have a number of apple portable devices (iphones, ipads, ipods). My favourite is probably Windows - generally because of its flexibility and ease of use.
Linux derivatives are fun (I've played with a number over the years) plus I really like the fact thats its a community product - but dont particularly like the faffing about thats sometimes required. Its not that Im scared of terminal (or even cutting code) but sometimes I just enjoy a nice ui to happily guide me along.
I really love apple's portable devices - very easy to use, intuitive, apps a-plenty (even if feature limited...) but I generally dont like their desktop os.... perhaps its just because I'm not used to its nuances.
Each to their own I guess - its just an os.
Apple V Micorsoft, Apple V Samsung, Model Railways Scale wars N V 00,O OO V P4,EM etc we just like to argue its what makes us human, oh that and making tools and killing anyhting that moves....
And no scotsoft Apple did not invent the GUI, we can thank XEROX PARC for that one, Apple just make a nice one thats all.
Bit like patenting large black rectangles (got any cave men with cow bones to hand??), or rounded corners....
Quote from: AndyGif on November 13, 2012, 11:07:51 AM
And no scotsoft Apple did not invent the GUI, we can thank XEROX PARC for that one, Apple just make a nice one thats all.
Bit like patenting large black rectangles (got any cave men with cow bones to hand??), or rounded corners....
Speaking of making less than less-than-descript objects patentable/copywrited- but I found this quite amusing....
http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/fuzzy-logic/57380-clock-shock-apples-timely- (http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/fuzzy-logic/57380-clock-shock-apples-timely-)$21m-payment-to-swiss-railways
Sorry for taking this off topic - but its almost railway related... :D
Apple have undeniably been responsible for several innovations and popularising new product types, and are very good at marketing them - generating hype and brand-loyalty making them for some 'must have' items as much as a status symbol as a productive tool...
However other manufacturers very quickly catch up (and generally surpass in terms of functionality, compatability, and flexibility) usually at a significantly lower price point.
So why do people buy Apple products? For the same reason they buy a BMW 3 series or Mercedes C class rather than a Ford Mondeo... The Mondeo is probably the better all round car, most reliable and significantly cheaper for the same spec, but loyal followers of the 3 pointed star or the blue & white propeller precieve the blue oval will not make the same impression on their neighbours when parked on their driveway...
Because they spend all their time sueing people and trying to block others from doing cool stuff ? And then behave badly when they get caught out, even to the courts ?
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/11/apple-to-pay-samsungs-uk-legal-fees-due-to-lack-of-integrity/ (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/11/apple-to-pay-samsungs-uk-legal-fees-due-to-lack-of-integrity/)
As Alan says - primarily because they paint themselves as whiter than white yet behave badly! Add in closed shop software, overpriced hardware etc etc.
Having said all that I have access to a variety of W7, XP, Debian, Android and IOS devices and all have strengths and weaknesses.
My new laptop will be either something running W7 (not W8!) or OSX.
Cheers, Mike
Quote from: PLD on November 13, 2012, 11:51:01 AM
So why do people buy Apple products? For the same reason they buy a BMW 3 series or Mercedes C class rather than a Ford Mondeo... The Mondeo is probably the better all round car, most reliable and significantly cheaper for the same spec, but loyal followers of the 3 pointed star or the blue & white propeller precieve the blue oval will not make the same impression on their neighbours when parked on their driveway...
This is bit of the whole discussion (not just here) that winds me up.
I bought a Mac because I like OS X. It has a GUI that feels unobtrusive, smooth and intuitive to me. It has a proper working Unix underneath. It has reasonable access to both flavours of software - closed / commercial and libre / gratis - at least for the programs I'm interested in. It has a good development environment. I know it's going to Just Work on the computer I bought it on.
Yes, I could have paid less for a PC with bigger numbers in the spec sheet, but I wouldn't have had OS X. (Hackintosh not withstanding; I don't have the free time or the interest). I'm prepared to pay a certain amount of price premium to get that.
That people disagree, and prefer Linux or (heaven forbid!) Windows, fine. That people object to Apple's business activities or the closed nature of the products enough to not buy them, fine. But please do me the courtesy of assuming I'm able to evaluate products and make a rational decision based on what I value, rather than being a fashion-following sheep who wants a cool badge to show the other sheep.
Rant over, I'll get my coat...
Looks like the brown smelly stuff has been thrown into the rotating thingy :poop:
I am following this with interest, albeit with not 100% comprehension :-[
Please don't let it get personal :thankyousign:
Quote from: newportnobby on November 13, 2012, 01:06:01 PM
Please don't let it get personal :thankyousign:
It wasn't intended to be - PLD, my apologies if that came across as an attack in any way, it was just the right point in the discussion to jump in.
I've left one model railway club already due to them not being able to comprehend my wish to use a computer & smartphone that work properly and don't sell my information to the highest paying advertisers and use "Apple Fanboy" as an attempted insult or throw whatever rubbish has been talked about on the net to try and make me use something not quite as good.
I've used Apple computers and software since before the Mac and will probably be using them after I retire. I've even used them to develop Xbox games for Microsoft (running Windows virtually on a Mac turned out to be a lot more reliable than running it on PC hardware). I use them because theywork properly, I trust the company to be looking after my interests as a customer (along with their own of course, which is why they look after their customers) and I've done pretty well so far.
Abit like Toyota and Lexus
Subaru and Daihatsu are also owned by the same company Fuji Heavy Industrys
I can see your point tim-pelican. I've been a user of Apple products since 1989. I currently have an iPhone 4S because the brand is reliable, I needed a 64gb hard drive and the phone does what I need. It's not because other people have bought it. Generalising all Apple customers as only following fashion is clearly wrong! :)
I've always preferred apple gear and OSs (been using them since system 7)
Yes, there's always a manufacturer that has better specs / better features
Yes there are cheaper options (but lets be fair, there are also more expensive options)
Yes Apples business practices are totally draconian (and thats being polite)
But.. one thing that apple do better than anyone else (IMHO) is design for usability.
If I want a device for my Mum, it'd be an apple
One of the big issues with the iPad was that lots of techies were expecting a tablet PC, and the iPad clearly isn't.. It always was a mass consumption media device so tech heads were always going to be disappointed, it was never designed for them..
There's also a lot of resentment against apple as they've done well despite having rather evil business practices.. Apple's tag line really should be "doesnt play well with others"
All that said, I'd still (and have) buy Apple for my devices, I've used everything from a mainframe to linux-based single board computer and despite all my criticisms of them, I'm still a bit of a fanboy.. I don't give two hoots about the BMW factor, but what I do care about is that when I switch it on, it works for what I want. which apple has delivered more consistently than anyone else.
My tuppence worth.
Graham
I used to be anti-Apple until I tried one.
I just choose what works best for me, is reliable and looks nice. Apple products do it for me at the moment but that might change if something better comes out in the future.
Quote from: grumbeast on November 13, 2012, 01:35:32 PM
If I want a device for my Mum, it'd be an apple
now thats what you call a dedicated apple fan, willing to swap his own mother for an apple..... :P
we buys what we buys because it does what we want, end of story, whether it be N Gauge, 00 Gauge, this or that....
Quote from: AndyGif on November 13, 2012, 01:42:16 PM
Quote from: grumbeast on November 13, 2012, 01:35:32 PM
If I want a device for my Mum, it'd be an apple
now thats what you call a dedicated apple fan, willing to swap his own mother for an apple..... :P
we buys what we buys because it does what we want, end of story, whether it be N Gauge, 00 Gauge, this or that....
:)
To be fair, it'd have to be a really good mac with lots of memory :)
Graham
I think that is a very reasonable assessment.
If I buy a Mac laptop then it will probably be a combination of hardware wants on my part that leads me to them (I'd like a reasonably thin/light laptop with a reasonable hardware spec and increasingly importantly (for me!) a decent screen resolution (ie more than 1366 x 768)). I can get Windows laptops that meet those requirements but the price differential isn't much and in some cases Mac is cheaper! I fully accept that I am not representative of most consumers.
As to OSX, perhaps at various points OSX had significant usability advantages over Windows but having used both OSX and W7 a lot recently there isn't that much between them. Aplle has the big advantage of restricting the hardware so the "just works" factor is much easier, conversely I have much greater choice of hardware and software if I stick with MS.
I completely agree that Apple make simple to use devices - my gran can quite happily use her Ipad.
Cheers, Mike
Quote from: AndyGif on November 13, 2012, 01:42:16 PM
we buys what we buys because it does what we want, end of story,
You know what, that has to be the final statement on this subject really!!!
I can't see anywhere else for this to go, as I sit here in Delhi typing on a Win XP Netbook, 'cos its cheaper than an Ipad and I wouldn't cry to much if it got nicked or damaged ('cos it's my sons ;D )
Regards
Neal.
P.S. Have seen plenty of people here using Ipads as cameras, mind you they are nearly all Westerners.
I have to use the windows/office combination just to maintain full compatibility with my clients, none of whom use apple stuff for serious business but a few have the iPad for consuming data.
At the beginning of the year we tried an iPad, no good for business, then we tried the Galaxy - ok but there were compatibility problems for some complicated m/s word tables. In the end we found a Samsung "slate 7". Works as a tablet but is actually a full blown pc running windows and office. Apart from working really well, it adds to the street credibility as well ! The only down side is that it costs the same as the Apple notebooks.
So, if Apple suits, go ahead but if not stick to Windows and Office. I don't think anyone has to compromise these days; which kind of makes the mine is better than yours a bit pointless in my opinion.
Quote from: tim-pelican on November 13, 2012, 12:41:52 PM
I bought a Mac because I like OS X. It has a GUI that feels unobtrusive, smooth and intuitive to me. It has a proper working Unix underneath. It has reasonable access to both flavours of software - closed / commercial and libre / gratis - at least for the programs I'm interested in. It has a good development environment. I know it's going to Just Work on the computer I bought it on.
Fair enough Tim, there are of course some users who have fully considered the options and made an informed decision (both ways), and I was really referring more to the portable devices (iPods/Pads/Phones) where a big part
is about having the latest fashion accessory, than for your desk-top computing where your valid points about individual choice of OS and what you are comfortable with are most relevant.
In the portable devices, there is a big proportion of Apple's customer base who do 'have to' buy the latest model for sake of 'bragging rights'. Look at the rediculous queues outside stores at midnight on the day a new version is released - is it realy essential to have it before breakfast?? (2 rashers and scrambled egg for me please). Also look at how often users tend to upgrade and how often new versions are released...
How many iPhone4 buyers had previously purchased iPhone1s, 2s and 3s, which now sit disused in a drawer. [answer by Apple's own figures is over 3/4s had at least one previous version] So why do those users see the need to change to the new model so frequently?
is it (a) that the previous versions were under specified compared to the competition and a rapid upgrade was essential to match their functionality or (b) the old one was fine and did all they needed but they'd be embarassed to admit in public to only having a v3.
In the end as other have said "you pays your money, you makes your choice" For me while Apple do make some decent kit, it's not worth the premium price and I don't understand the frenzied desire to always have the latest version of everything if the previous one does all you need of it which is unfortunately associated with the brand...
One of the things that prompted my original post was a review of the new mini iPad in a newspaper, the reviewer gave it a high score and WW3 seemed to break out in the comments section with lots of them having to be blocked by moderators.
While I can understand some of the reasons for not liking a particular product I was really surprised how upset people got. If they'd been in a bar they probably would have started thumping each other.
Maybe some of them don't have more important things to worry about, like saving up for the next loco :D or getting the ballasting done.
Regards
Veronica
Quote from: tim-pelican on November 13, 2012, 01:15:43 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on November 13, 2012, 01:06:01 PM
Please don't let it get personal :thankyousign:
It wasn't intended to be - PLD, my apologies if that came across as an attack in any way, it was just the right point in the discussion to jump in.
Hi Tim - I wasn't pointing any fingers :no:
It's just that a subject that sets people into opposing points of view has the potential for becoming personal. I just want everyone to remember to respect the views of others and have a healthy debate :thumbsup:
Quote from: PLD on November 13, 2012, 02:15:07 PM
In the portable devices, there is a big proportion of Apple's customer base who do 'have to' buy the latest model for sake of 'bragging rights'. Look at the rediculous queues outside stores at midnight on the day a new version is released - is it realy essential to have it before breakfast?? (2 rashers and scrambled egg for me please). Also look at how often users tend to upgrade and how often new versions are released...
The reason people do that is because (1) it's actually quite fun to be appreciated by the shop staff and company you're buying something from, plus they do goodie bags etc. (2) If you didn't pre-order online in time, it's your only chance to get one for a while usually and it's nice to be ahead of the game when new technology is out.
There are people who brag about what phone they've got, but iPhones sell because they're actually very good. They update the phones once a year, but the OS is free and updates for the older devices too, so if you're on the normal 2 year contract, you simply upgrade every alternate iPhone, which is why they do the "S" numbering sequence. You also don't have to hack around to get the latest version of the OS on your phone, it's pretty much automatic.
Not being much of a computer expert the postings on this topic
might as well have been in ancient Greek.
What is clear is that Apple stuff is dearer.
Is it like Marks & Sparks shirts are dearer than Primark
but made in the same Shanghai sweatshop?
For those unsure of Macs, or those who are sure and need a new one, get down to Comet - 20% off! Bargain - get 'em because when they're gone, they're gone.
Quote from: Kipper on November 13, 2012, 03:30:11 PM
For those unsure of Macs, or those who are sure and need a new one, get down to Comet - 20% off! Bargain - get 'em because when they're gone, they're gone.
Make sure they're selling you a current model though. Comet, Dixons etc. have a nasty habit of selling old stock off as current models.
Here is my 5 cents worth, speaking from a technical perspective as a software engineer and electronic hobbyist who had an Apple ][e clone as my third computer (after building my first two machines from kits). The company got their fingers burnt with the original Apple 2e - this was a great machine for its time, with an open architecture like Windows/PCs nowadays, and other companies produced all sorts of expansion cards, new kinds of software, etc. Very flexible, very popular, very successful. Unfortunately, this success bred many cheap clones which deprived Apple of revenue. So, when they designed the first Mac, the company went to the other extreme and have followed that path ever since.
Apple products from the first Mac onwards have used a closed hardware and software architecture. You have to buy all your stuff from them or their approved suppliers (at higher prices, from a limited range and eventually with less capability than their competitors), and you have to do everything their way or not do it at all. They were often ahead of the pack (especially with totally new products), but then after a couple of years tended to be eclipsed by faster or more flexible machines from competitors. On the other hand, the options were generally limited enough that they could be thoroughly tested and usually worked more reliably than the chaotic Windows/PC world.
Apples are great if what they provide matches what you want to do, but can be a real pain otherwise. Look at the current issues with music and ebook content - who owns the rights? Can they revoke them at will?, etc, etc. Apples traditionally end up being very popular for certain specific tasks, groups and professions. There were similar effects with other old machines such as the Amiga and Atari computers - these staked out and monopolized certain specific areas (graphic arts and music respectively) for many years after they become obsolete in general use.
Quote from: Zwilnik on November 13, 2012, 03:36:51 PM
Quote from: Kipper on November 13, 2012, 03:30:11 PM
For those unsure of Macs, or those who are sure and need a new one, get down to Comet - 20% off! Bargain - get 'em because when they're gone, they're gone.
Make sure they're selling you a current model though. Comet, Dixons etc. have a nasty habit of selling old stock off as current models.
Had a look this morning - all current models and specs. As Comet are closing down, there are bargains to be had, but going fast. Went looking for a VHS/DVD combi unit, and local shop only had all singing and dancing Panasonic, with hard disc as well, reduced from £400+ by 20% - very very tempted.
Quote from: martink on November 13, 2012, 03:46:09 PM
Look at the current issues with music and ebook content - who owns the rights? Can they revoke them at will?
In the case of iBooks, iTunes, App Store etc. you 'own' the media rather than rent it. Unlike Kindle where Amazon can remotely pull all copies of a title (and have done so in the past when in dispute with publishers), once you buy a book or song, you keep it. Even if Apple shut the whole system down, you'd still be able to use them. That's one reason why iTunes worked when all the music rental systems were failing. You can even pay £25 a year for iTunes Match now and own everything you've ripped to MP3 from wherever you got it as iTunes copies. Particularly handy if you've got a huge library of not quite so legitimately sourced music ;) but also handy if you've ripped a huge CD collection and suddenly need a track on your computer, phone or tablet as you can re-download any of them from iCloud.
The actual license and rights etc. are down to the publishers of course.
I've had a Mac for about a year now,if I want to upgrade to the latest software it's downloadable for about £20.00 I believe.I took the extended warranty out for a total of three years and that includes telephone support on an 0800 number and costs me nothing.
I have got Windows7 on the same machine so I can run some software that is windows specific,but the windows partition is not connected to the internet.This means I am not frequently waiting for windows to download and install the latest bug or security update,neither do I have to buy and run all the anti virus and anti spyware software.
When I bought the Mac it did not come with all the bloatware included that comes with Windows,some of which is a lot of trouble to get rid of.
It takes literally only a few minutes to get a brand new Mac up and running and set up email and internet as well,it's just so straight forward and easy to do.
Allan
Because they are one of the companies (along with Amazon, Google and Starbucks) who avoid paying corporation tax in the UK on UK generated profits and are basically cheating the tax payer. They managed to reduce their 'rate' to leass than 2% from just over 2% last year. It should be 24%.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20197710 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20197710)
H.
Quote from: H on November 13, 2012, 05:18:54 PM
Because they are one of the companies (along with Amazon, Google and Starbucks) who avoid paying corporation tax in the UK on UK generated profits and are basically cheating the tax payer. They managed to reduce their 'rate' to leass than 2% from just over 2% last year. It should be 24%.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20197710 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20197710)
H.
They're not cheating the taxpayer, they're paying all the tax they're supposed to pay in the UK according to the law. Same with all of them, companies are entrusted by their shareholders to make profits and wasting it on tax that the law says they don't need to pay would be bad financial management. The government is cheating the taxpayer.
The issue there is simply that the tax law is wrong. There's loopholes you can drive the Flying Scotsman through. If you think any company in the UK is paying full corporation tax because they're 'nice' it's usually because they're either poorly managed or too small to afford the clever accountants.
Quote from: Bikeracer on November 13, 2012, 05:01:48 PM
it did not come with all the bloatware included
Allan
Nice one, Allan :laughabovepost: A technical term I can understand :claphappy:
I'll agree to some extent about the iBling problem being worse than the Mac one. I have an iPhone, and I had an iPod before that. My iPod lasted 8 years, and I only replaced it because my music collection had crept over 20G, and the connectors were starting to wear out. Again, I bought both because I like what they did - but I agree there are plenty of people who have to have the latest because it's the latest. And then they complain that Apple are releasing products too fast, and that they're too hard up! :hmmm:
Being somewhat of a music fanatic, when I went for a portable system I went for the iPod Classic 80GB. I have over 4000 songs on it and it's still only 25% full.
Have to admit I didn't even look at anything else, but it's the only Apple product I own although I am not anti-Apple in the slightest.
I can't get an all singing all dancing phone because the reception where I live is just so bad that nothing works :veryangry:
I am not Anti anything but I do think Apple make idiots out of people with money to burn, iPhone 1,2,3,4,5, iPad this that and the other, iPod 4gig,8gig,16gig, more gigs more gigs.
I think its hilarious the way these Apple geeks cue up over night in teeming rain to get the latest iWhatever because it is thiner than the last one ??? :doh: :doh:
I have no intention of ever using anything Apple although many years ago I did have a freaky little computer that ran on floppy drives, by the same token I will never use anything that Microsoft has its badge on either, that includes tablets, phones or computers.
More than happy with my Android powered Samsung Smartphone and using Linux Mint as a operating system on my computers.
As a long-time techie and tinkerer, I find Apple's "everything under one roof" approach restrictive but can see it would have appeal to a lot of folk.
Apple's wanton suing of their rivals is very worrying as it encourages an unfair monopoly and restricts innovation and competition. However, to give them credit, their suppliers have installed safety netting at their factory to catch workers trying to commit suicide. That's positive HR policy in action! :laugh3:
Quote from: captainelectra on November 13, 2012, 08:31:58 PM
As a long-time techie and tinkerer, I find Apple's "everything under one roof" approach restrictive but can see it would have appeal to a lot of folk.
Apple's wanton suing of their rivals is very worrying as it encourages an unfair monopoly and restricts innovation and competition. However, to give them credit, their suppliers have installed safety netting at their factory to catch workers trying to commit suicide. That's positive HR policy in action! :laugh3:
Note that Apple actually pushed Foxconn to increase wages, improve conditions and give employees training on what their rights were etc. which none of the many other companies Foxconn manufactures smartphones and computers for (ie most of them) did. Apple got all the mentions in the press about bad conditions at Foxconn because mentioning Apple automatically gets you page views nowadays.
I wonder what the factory conditions in Bachmann and Dapol's Chinese factories are like?
I am not anti apple and feel everyone is intitaled to their own likes and dislikes.
I have had 3 Ipods,
1 Shuffle, 1 2nd gen Nano and a 80g classic. Don't use any of them now
I use an android tablet which i got given.
my phone is a cheap samsung on payg .
Past computers I have used ran Red Hat Linux and am happy using software like Open Office, Foxit but like the convenience of Windows for ease of interfacing with printers etc
I'm not sure if this is still the case but Apple used to give a 30% discount to Education users. It would still make a profit, even with that discount, so the rest of us are being grossly overcharged - and yes, I am using an iPad to write this.
Quote from: Malc on November 13, 2012, 11:17:13 PM
I'm not sure if this is still the case but Apple used to give a 30% discount to Education users. It would still make a profit, even with that discount, so the rest of us are being grossly overcharged - and yes, I am using an iPad to write this.
Apple make a profit (although it's marginal on education AFIK) as they're a company. They don't cost more, Apple simply just don't make cheap computers. That's actually a bigger difference in meaning than it sounds.
They are so up them selves here. They should not be. But then again that's what happens when you have a demand product. I'm not anti apple we have 6 apple product plus the iTunes buts it's the way they run there local store, not very helpful "we at apple don't have to be because you will buy our stuff anyway". The reason I won't buy from their flagship stores
Bart
What I don't like about Apple is the way they change their models as often as some people change their underpants (not me though :no: I change mine every day :thumbsup:).
People seem to get suckered into buying the latest product even though it won't do much more than the previous model :confused2: :confused2:
Wow, who would have thought a simple question could provoke such a flurry of (heated?) responses. Seems to be even more contentious than the US election last week :laughabovepost:
I was a Windows lover from the days of my first 386, through discovering the Internet on my first 14.4K modem, on through the first clunky, heavy laptops right through to broadband and setting up my first wireless network. At one point I even built my on PC... I used to laugh at my wife's Apple PowerBooks that she used for work (she works in advertising and 12-15 years ago this was about the only industry that stuck with Apple).
Then came a time to set up a home office for my wife. I researched the latest and greatest PCs and had set my heart on a hugely expensive gaming spec desktop. But SWMBO put her foot down. It was primarily for her use, so it had to be a Mac. Straight out of the box our iMac connected to the wireless network and to the printer wirelessly, it was also able to 'speak' to my Windows desktop and laptop instantly. So what you may ask - well despite hours and hours of tinkering I had never managed to get the laptop and the PC to talk to each other let alone to the printer. Not to say anything about the looks of the iMac compared to any Windows desktop...
So the ability to seamlessly integrate with the other 'stuff' persuaded me. Since then, familiarity with the Mac OS is important and the superior design and build quality all reinforce my move to the Mac.
Not long after SWMBO asked for an iPod for her birthday. I duly obliged, saying I would never need one of those... Same with the original iPhone. By the time the iPad came along, I was there first (finally). Again it was the seamless integration that won the day.
Anyhoo, find me something better and I will willingly consider (Windows 8 anyone?). But in the meantime I use my iPhone, iPad and Mac every day for both work and personal use and I grudgingly use a heavy, slow Windows laptop at work >:(
I also have a few Apple shares. They have performed quite well... Microsoft shares have not moved in 10 years.
Oh, and finally, I did vote for Obama again. Seems like this might have been a far less contentious choice than replying to this post :claphappy:
Mike
Quote from: Chetcombe on November 14, 2012, 04:33:52 AM
Oh, and finally, I did vote for Obama again. Seems like this might have been a far less contentious choice than replying to this post :claphappy:
Mike
Well done Mike the world may be a safer place to live with President Obama in charge of the White House :thumbsup:
Most of the members of my family have made the switch from Windows to Mac and seem to be quite happy, cant say I blame them as IMO anything is better than Windows.
Quote from: Malc on November 13, 2012, 11:17:13 PM
I'm not sure if this is still the case but Apple used to give a 30% discount to Education users. It would still make a profit, even with that discount, so the rest of us are being grossly overcharged - and yes, I am using an iPad to write this.
You can also get whopping discounts from Microsoft if you are in education, often as much as 70% :thumbsup:
I would like to thank everyone for their varied opinions posted here and how they have shown it is possible to have an in depth discussion without it decending into an abusive slanging match :welcomesign:
cheers John.
A lot of the MS discounts apply to charities too - something useful to remember in some railway circles. Not sure how long it'll matter given the way prices are crashing for everything but windows license costs. A tablet is now cheaper than a windows licence let alone the hardware for it.
IMHO much of it is fashion. Your taste may be abominable but if its what you like wearing then (barring the need to wear sunglasses to stand the colour) its your problem 8)
On a railway related note Apple got caught out nicking Railway clocks of all things..
http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/swiss-railway-clock-apple-ios6-99048 (http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/swiss-railway-clock-apple-ios6-99048)
Alan
Well I use a Mac but I'm neither for or against Apple.
There will always be people who prefer one brand and hate another, that's life!
I guess Apple lovers just like things with an 'i' in front of the name :P :D
I started out along with my brother and sister on a Commodore 64 then moved onto an Atari1040st.
(Gaming on 64k of memory, those were the days! :laugh:)
We then got a 286 albeit very briefly before upgrading to a 386. Then we got a 486 DX50 and it was the dogs wotsits at the time. Eventually we all got our own PC's and eventually I swapped for a laptop.
I only went over to a Mac for two reasons: 1, my windows based laptop suddenly died and 2, I got fed up of the continuous updates that windows needed!
My MacBook is now 4 years old, still going, robust, reasonably light and has been carted the length and breadth of the U.K on public transport with no problems!
Right, I'm going to get some iLunch, put on some iWashing and maybe later do some iModelling on my iLayout... :laugh3:
Well, if Moggle's going to do some iModeling, watch out, there's probably a patent being disputed somewhere.
My track has round ends, does this infringe Mr Freezer's copyright ?
Quote from: BobB on November 14, 2012, 01:35:34 PM
Well, if Moggle's going to do some iModeling, watch out, there's probably a patent being disputed somewhere.
Probably. But it was my iDea. :doh:
Atari 1024 ST - had one of those myself, a great machine. In a way, my Mac reminds me of those trouble free computing days (or am I looking through rose tinted specs)
I know one group of people that are anti-Apple - all of the fraudsters that phone up saying you have problems with Windows . . . . (when you are using a Mac)
ah the good old computer timelines....
zx81, spectrum 48k, spectrum 128k, atari 520stfm, 8088, 286, 486 dx 50, p1, p2, p4. core 2 duo, core i3 and core i5, thats just the home computers since 1981....
probalby treble that for types and OS's due to work and uni...
How about the Amiga, had one for years, it was eventually expanded with more memory, a 4Mb hard drive, a Picasso graphic card, sound card, Yamaha midi card, all put into a tower case, used it to hand code my first website using a text editor, those were the days ;)
I'm anti apple because they give me gout, really they do, haven't been able to enjoy one for years now!
Quote from: Lawrence on November 14, 2012, 04:11:29 PM
I'm anti apple because they give me gout, really they do, haven't been able to enjoy one for years now!
Are you sure it's the apples and not the malt :whistle:
Quote from: whiteswan on November 14, 2012, 03:53:43 PM
How about the Amiga, had one for years, it was eventually expanded with more memory, a 4Mb hard drive, a Picasso graphic card, sound card, Yamaha midi card, all put into a tower case
Never saw the point of the ST (I mean - just look at the abbreviation, how can it be useful for a
lad !!! :angel: ), got me an Amiga (after my ZX81, Speccie 48, and Yamaha MSX
with synth keyboard). Sold the Ami 500 (with extra RAM) & got an Ami 1500 (the one you could plug cards into etc - looked like a PC case) & added an 8086 or 80286 card to let me run PC stuff. Sold
that & got an Ami 4000 with 320MB hard drive - :headbang: :toot: :toot: My missus complained (she like the 500) so got her the Ami 500+ ... still have these two in the garage somewhere ... !
Had to move into PCs about then ... started using NetWare 3 @ work, & needed a PC for all the learning on it ...
Saw Apple stuff - flash, unexpandable (unless you sold your first-born to the Cult of Jobs), and far too expensive for what it did ! Something that work agreed with, no use in our environment at all. Not seen anything to change my mind, to be frank ... or Jim, or Bob, or ... :laugh3:
Quote from: whiteswan on November 14, 2012, 04:19:44 PM
Quote from: Lawrence on November 14, 2012, 04:11:29 PM
I'm anti apple because they give me gout, really they do, haven't been able to enjoy one for years now!
Are you sure it's the apples and not the malt :whistle:
Never touches my lips Caz ;)
Quote from: Lawrence on November 14, 2012, 07:13:34 PM
Quote from: whiteswan on November 14, 2012, 04:19:44 PM
Quote from: Lawrence on November 14, 2012, 04:11:29 PM
I'm anti apple because they give me gout, really they do, haven't been able to enjoy one for years now!
Are you sure it's the apples and not the malt :whistle:
Never touches my lips Caz ;)
Straight down then. :)
Quote from: whiteswan on November 14, 2012, 07:27:57 PM
Quote from: Lawrence on November 14, 2012, 07:13:34 PM
Quote from: whiteswan on November 14, 2012, 04:19:44 PM
Quote from: Lawrence on November 14, 2012, 04:11:29 PM
I'm anti apple because they give me gout, really they do, haven't been able to enjoy one for years now!
Are you sure it's the apples and not the malt :whistle:
Never touches my lips Caz ;)
Straight down then. :)
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Zwilnik on November 13, 2012, 05:32:38 PM
If you think any company in the UK is paying full corporation tax because they're 'nice' it's usually because they're either poorly managed or too small to afford the clever accountants.
Not so. There are plenty of companies who pay the full rates because they like to be seen to do the 'right thing' and there are companies who do so because they were pulled over the coals and shamed in to it.
The amount of avoiding that Apple does is insidious and a good enough reason for many to dislike them.
H.
Quote from: H on November 14, 2012, 10:20:03 PM
Quote from: Zwilnik on November 13, 2012, 05:32:38 PM
If you think any company in the UK is paying full corporation tax because they're 'nice' it's usually because they're either poorly managed or too small to afford the clever accountants.
Not so. There are plenty of companies who pay the full rates because they like to be seen to do the 'right thing' and there are companies who do so because they were pulled over the coals and shamed in to it.
The amount of avoiding that Apple does is insidious and a good enough reason for many to dislike them.
H.
I can't think of any international companies that do, any specific ones? Samsung, BMW etc don't pay any UK tax this year thanks to being sponsors of the Olympic tax dodge, which makes them exempt from all UK taxes effectively.
In Apple's case they don't sell a whole lot in the UK, the only UK outlets are the Apple Retail stores, which are profitable compared to other retail stores, but that's retail still, so not huge margins. Everything else is online, the same as all the other tech companies and sold through Luxembourg, so all the tax is paid there (including VAT). In the meantime, Apple's putting millions into the UK directly by enabling UK developers to make a really good living developing and selling apps on the App Store (also Luxembourg based).
If the managing director of a big company isn't making sure they're paying as little tax legally as they'd meant to, then he/she isn't doing a very good job and deserves to be fired. Being a responsible company isn't about being sloppy with money, it's about putting it to good use in the community. A responsible government shouldn't leave big tax loopholes and then berate companies for using them.