This musing was prompted by the recent announcements at the Dapol open day that their class 22s would be available with factory weathering based on work of Mercig.
http://www.mercigstudios.com/news (http://www.mercigstudios.com/news)
This follows on previous offerings from Dapol such as their weathered 9F and silver bullets (or should that be "muddy bullets").
This kind of finish is a huge step up the factory weathering of just 2-3 years ago where a spray of grey-brown around the frames was considered sufficient. Now we are getting different shades and textures as well as details such as streaking and even limescale deposits.
Farish are upping their game too. The reecent WD had a couple of different shades of weathering applied quite finely (although for my money they are not as good as the latest Dapol weathering).
With ever increasing numbers of classes available RTR in N gauge, weathering is the new frontier. This (along with renumbering) was the classic first step on the road to improving out-of-the-box models. Now that weathering to Mercig standards is available RTR for just a few extra pounds, where does that leave the hobby?
Now granted some people like their locos ex-works and there is nothing wrong with that (remember rule #1 :NGaugersRule: ). Others will still enjoy the challenge of doing something themselves. But with factory weathering this good, it does mean it will take even more courage for people to take their brushes to pristine models.
On the other hand, will it act as encouragement? Will such good factory weathering provide modellers with a good template to follow with their own initial efforts? Will seeing how good well-weathered models look on a layout encourage people to try out on some of their own models?
I don't know the answers but I am interested to hear other people's thoughts on these very positive developments.
A step in the right direction I would certainly agree for some of the less brave modellers. Locos with weathering will make all the difference, but will it be followed by weathered wagons to avoid the 'dirty' loco with sparkly clean wagons, and will those wagons then have to come in different guises for the differing loads around - clay, coal, ore, etc.
It could add a whole set of profit product lines or maybe lead to a mass explosion in the sale of airbrushes and related goodies.
However, won't it look a bit odd if all your diesels have the same dirty mark in the same place :hmmm:
Quote from: trainsdownunder on October 23, 2012, 02:44:19 PM
However, won't it look a bit odd if all your diesels have the same dirty mark in the same place :hmmm:
Not necessarily as long as those dirty marks are in obvious places like around the exhaust. ;)
The problem I have is renumbering, If I want to get, for example with Delfryn i want 2 - 3 Regi rail 101's in which case Ill need to renumber two out of the box which after I will need to weather them.
However if I like a weathered version I will normally be stuck to getting just the one because i wouldnt be able to renumber it and get the same standard of finish of that which it already had applied, so for me unless they start bringing regular different running numbers out, which so far they dont seem to do, Id better stick with unweathered mainly. On another note though, I do have to admit that it would give me the right push to start weathering more and who knows, eventually I may be able to renumber weathered versions.
This is not to say they are not good looking, I do think they look fantastic and i would happily buy one for the layout and stick to renumbering non weathered versions.
Hope all the above makes sense :laughabovepost:
Factory weathering has got better, the farish B1 was done rather well in my opinion. Diesels do seem to be harder to weather convincingly - too many large flat areas and faded paint work for example. I think it's better to do it yourself, i practiced on a couple of del prados (they do have a use) until i felt i'd got it about right or get a mate to do it for you !
This Atlas SD35 belongs to me, but my good friend Elvinley did the weathering - rather well me thinks !
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/djmikeymike2011/IMAG1231.jpg)
Sorry for repeating myself, but as a cack-handed old numpty I will ALWAYS buy factory weathered versions of what I'm after, despite having seen some inspirational weathering by other members of the forum. Not being a fan of pristine, and not really having the time to attempt weathering as I have too much other stuff to do, it suits me there is a proliferation of weathered models - including wagons.
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j454/nobbynewport/Kimbolted/Gronk08004.jpg)
Maybe, just maybe, when I have the track laid & ballasted, scenery done, buildings built, electrickery er wired etc, I will turn my attention to having a stab at it when there's nothing else to do but detail things. Sad to say that's going to be a long ways off :-[
Weathering is probably first on the list of things I'd be willing to try in terms of altering a model from the factory, but it's nice to have the option of buying them like that too - both to pander to my laziness / cack-handedness, and as an example if I do decide to have a try.
You see, this is why I chose Network SouthEast, as their trains were ALWAYS spotless. :angel: :smiley-laughing:
There is an article about NSE in Modern Rail and it shows their quality improvements from 1986 (when NSE started) to 1987. In 1986 the daily exterior wash was 21% compared with 94% in 1987 and the monthly heavy interior clean went up from 53% of target to 96% of target. As Tank says, they were pretty much spotless.
I recall Bachmann bringing out two versions of its OO Southern Turbostar (I had both) - one pristine and one weathered. The weathered version attracted criticism on the grounds that the trains rarely look grubby.
i think it's good if they produce both weathered and pristine versions of locos (and dcc fitted, dcc sound)
some people, myself included, are not brave enough to weather a loco yet or just don't have the skills. i have weathered a few cheap wagons because it doesn't matter if they go wrong. to weather a new loco is too risky though.
tim
QuoteI think it's better to do it yourself, i practiced on a couple of del prados (they do have a use)
So there is a purpose for these after all :D :D
Factory weathering often looks nice, but a bit too nice. Real weathering is pretty unsightly at times.
Quote from: Elvinley on October 24, 2012, 12:15:40 AM
Factory weathering often looks nice, but a bit too nice. Real weathering is pretty unsightly at times.
I have to admit, sonetime ago I saw a photo if a class 60 that had blown an engine or something and all around the grill was pure black, will try find it in the morning. I guess what I was trying to say was I agree about real weathering can look pretty unsightly haha.
Definitley. I have seen photos of locos and real life examples that you wouldn't particularly want going round your layout, and if you did copy them someone would be bound to think you had done a bad job :confused1:
Quote from: newportnobby on October 23, 2012, 05:39:47 PM
Sorry for repeating myself, but as a cack-handed old numpty I will ALWAYS buy factory weathered versions of what I'm after, despite having seen some inspirational weathering by other members of the forum. Not being a fan of pristine, and not really having the time to attempt weathering as I have too much other stuff to do, it suits me there is a proliferation of weathered models - including wagons.
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j454/nobbynewport/Kimbolted/Gronk08004.jpg)
Maybe, just maybe, when I have the track laid & ballasted, scenery done, buildings built, electrickery er wired etc, I will turn my attention to having a stab at it when there's nothing else to do but detail things. Sad to say that's going to be a long ways off :-[
If only they could be bothered to move the loco so the weathering doesn't leave a stencil impriint of the con rods!
Quote from: Matthew-peter on October 24, 2012, 12:20:24 AM
Quote from: Elvinley on October 24, 2012, 12:15:40 AM
Factory weathering often looks nice, but a bit too nice. Real weathering is pretty unsightly at times.
I have to admit, sonetime ago I saw a photo if a class 60 that had blown an engine or something and all around the grill was pure black, will try find it in the morning. I guess what I was trying to say was I agree about real weathering can look pretty unsightly haha.
Probably 60081 - it suffered a terminal engine failure and threw a piston
You might also need to remodel the body slightly on such a loco.
http://daves-trains.smugmug.com/Trains/Type-5-Power/16463052_bHwnKQ/1236315396_axE95# (http://daves-trains.smugmug.com/Trains/Type-5-Power/16463052_bHwnKQ/1236315396_axE95#)!i=1236315396&k=PdG5P4P
Quote from: Elvinley on October 24, 2012, 12:24:08 AM
If only they could be bothered to move the loco so the weathering doesn't leave a stencil impriint of the con rods!
Nice spot, Ian! I confess I hadn't even noticed that :doh:
Quote from: EtchedPixels on October 24, 2012, 12:50:23 AM
Quote from: Matthew-peter on October 24, 2012, 12:20:24 AM
Quote from: Elvinley on October 24, 2012, 12:15:40 AM
Factory weathering often looks nice, but a bit too nice. Real weathering is pretty unsightly at times.
I have to admit, sonetime ago I saw a photo if a class 60 that had blown an engine or something and all around the grill was pure black, will try find it in the morning. I guess what I was trying to say was I agree about real weathering can look pretty unsightly haha.
Probably 60081 - it suffered a terminal engine failure and threw a piston
You might also need to remodel the body slightly on such a loco.
http://daves-trains.smugmug.com/Trains/Type-5-Power/16463052_bHwnKQ/1236315396_axE95# (http://daves-trains.smugmug.com/Trains/Type-5-Power/16463052_bHwnKQ/1236315396_axE95#)!i=1236315396&k=PdG5P4P
It wasnt that one, although a good photo, although if someone gave me a model weathered like that I would ask to see a photo they had worked from haha
I wonder if this is considered too much..... http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photo/scaled/12894/ (http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photo/scaled/12894/)
When I did the sandite trains with DBS the locos got in this state regularly.
Quote from: newportnobby on October 24, 2012, 08:02:18 AM
Quote from: Elvinley on October 24, 2012, 12:24:08 AM
If only they could be bothered to move the loco so the weathering doesn't leave a stencil impriint of the con rods!
Nice spot, Ian! I confess I hadn't even noticed that :doh:
On my weathered class 14 there is a similar thing with the section of the con rods hidden under the steps but strangely the wheels seem to have complete weathering.
Quote from: Elvinley on October 25, 2012, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on October 24, 2012, 08:02:18 AM
Quote from: Elvinley on October 24, 2012, 12:24:08 AM
If only they could be bothered to move the loco so the weathering doesn't leave a stencil impriint of the con rods!
Nice spot, Ian! I confess I hadn't even noticed that :doh:
On my weathered class 14 there is a similar thing with the section of the con rods hidden under the steps but strangely the wheels seem to have complete weathering.
Oh Gawd - I'll check mine too :doh:
What do people think of Bachmann's practice of releasing models with factory weathering? This seems to be something they are doing with increasing number of locos in both gauges recently.
I buy mostly N, plus the occasional OO gauge loco if it's something I'm particularly interested in. There are a number of recent / current / forthcoming Bachmann/Farish models which I would have bought but won't because they are weathered - I simply don't like them weathered and given the cost of the locos it isn't worth the risk of trying to clean it off and risking damaging the paintwork.
My view is that for weathering to work the locos and stock need to be done consistently, and a factory-weathered loco isn't really going to achieve this unless a whole set of stock is also available to go with it, weathered in the same style (which isn't normally the case). If someone is serious enough about their layout to want the stock and locos weathered, they are likely to be able to do it themselves, and in most cases do a better job than the factory weathering.
Dapol don't (so far as I know) supply anything weathered, and Hornby only do it occasionally.
What do others think - are Bachmann doing it too much of late? I guess they must have done research on what people want, but I imagine I'm not the only one who won't buy the models as a result.
Many folks don't like the factory weathering for all the reasons you have given, but for cack-handed people like me it will do. Luckily, if I want some proper weathering then a fellow forum member (mk1gtstu) does commissions and makes a fantastic job of it.
BTW - Dapol do weathered locos. The 9F, Western, Hymek and class 22 spring to mind immediately.
The Western and the class 22 are very, very good.
I would always buy the non weathered versions if I can
I do dislike factory weathering
:thumbsdown:
I like factory weathering if it's done well.
On the plus side, such models don't need additional weathering on the part of the owner, and that means you can run realistic-looking trains without reducing the resale value of your collectable model. It'd also useful for those modellers who want weathered stock but aren't comfortable weathering models or don't own the tools to do so.
On the debit side though it's true that not everyone likes weathered stock. Low quality weathering doesn't really add much to the realism of a model locomotive either (the weathered 'Hymek' from Dapol that was included with their milk tanker book set is one such example, and received little more than an all-over spray of grey-brown).
At the end of the day, weathered locomotives are an option. Comparing the two brands, I think Dapol seems to get the nod when it comes to weathering, their recent 'Western' and Class 22 diesels, plus the slightly older 9Fs and 'Silver Bullet' tankers are really superb examples of off-the-shelf weathering. For sure Mercig Studios would do even better jobs with these, but at something like 50 times the expense! Some Dapol weathering is pretty lame though (the 'Hymek' springs to mind, but the weathering on their cheaper wagons is a bit crude too). Bachmann seems to be somewhere in between: never clumsy, but as yet, nothing particularly exceptional either.
Cheers, NeMo
To my eyes the factory weathering I have on three diesels and a number of wagons looks pretty good to me. I'm sure if it were hand done it could look better, but these items are so small I think an impression of weathering is good enough.
I take the points above about people preferring non-weathered stock but I find it nice to have the ability to make up a couple of trains with weathered stock.
On my layout - when I get round to laying the track!! - I am modelling a preserved railway (North Hampshire preserved railway). The pristine stock is reserved for the punters and the weathered stock for daily maintenance and supply duties.
:beers:
Quote from: NeMo on July 17, 2015, 09:19:04 PM
On the plus side, such models don't need additional weathering on the part of the owner, and that means you can run realistic-looking trains without reducing the resale value of your collectable model.
Good point NeMo - never thought of that.
:beers:
Yeah, I'm with NPN on this one - it's good enough for me and certainly far better than I could do meself.
I must remind people at this point, though, that several of our members are very good at weathering, and have posted some excellent photos and tutorials on the subject.
So if anyone feels like having a shot at it, the information is here! :thumbsup:
Most factory "weathering" is a dash of uniform dirty brown blown over from a air brush, its not weathering as such.
Why people pay so much extra for something so simple is so far beyond me I cant explain it!!
Hello all,
Last time I asked Farish about this I was told they do weathered models because they sell.
In my view, is almost impossible to realistically weather a model - especially in N - without an airbrush and the skill to use it - and many people have neither the enthusiasm or space/cash/aptitude for this. For these people factory weathering is an ideal way to enhance the realism of their models.
I would add however that like anything, the weathering needs to be done well. The Chinese are very good at copying something exactly, but not so good at producing artistic interpretations themselves. The best weathered factory models in my view are the Dapol Westerns, 22s and silver bullets produced while Dave Jones was there. His methodology was to send a model to Ian at Mercig, get him to weather it properly, then send that model to China with the instruction "copy this" which they did brilliantly.
Cheers
Ben A.
Thanks for that snippet! I certainly did not know that, yet alone ever given thought to it, but it makes sense!
Cheers,
George
To my mind the Dapol Western has the best weathering I've ever seen on a RTR model.
http://www.ehattons.com/74776/Dapol_2D_003_011_Class_52_diesel_locomotive_D1009_Western_Invader_in_BR_Blue_with_full_yellow_end/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/74776/Dapol_2D_003_011_Class_52_diesel_locomotive_D1009_Western_Invader_in_BR_Blue_with_full_yellow_end/StockDetail.aspx)
I had to fight the temptation to buy one of these when I saw them!
Cheers
Mark
Quote from: JasonBz on July 18, 2015, 12:51:05 AM
Most factory "weathering" is a dash of uniform dirty brown blown over from a air brush, its not weathering as such.
Ok Jason - here's one I did earlier !!!!
[smg id=27216 type=preview align=center caption="Weathered 9F"]
This is definitely not a rough airbrush of dirty brown!!
I'm not sure if Farish or Dapol would want to go to this extreme.
This was taken at Cranmore on the East Somerset Railway in 1995 to commemorate the end of steam.
Not done with an airbrush I suspect!!.
The 'weathering' is a bit overdone in my opinion but the picture demonstrates how subjective peoples' opinions of what proper weathering is.
:D
Quote from: newportnobby on July 17, 2015, 09:11:32 PM
BTW - Dapol do weathered locos. The 9F, Western, Hymek and class 22 spring to mind immediately.
The Western and the class 22 are very, very good.
I'd forgotten them. I suppose the main difference is that Dapol normally do unweathered locos in the same livery at around the same time, whereas with Bachmann/Farish the weathered version can be the only on they've done for several years.
Probably the best steam loco weathering I have seen on a RTR N model is that on the Dapol 9F, all those I have seen look very good indeded.
I am not too unhappy with my Farish stuff (B1, J39, WD) probably the best of the three is the J39.
Roy
Quote from: davidinyork on July 17, 2015, 09:04:21 PM
What do people think of Bachmann's practice of releasing models with factory weathering?
Duplicate topic, already discussed :
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=8766.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=8766.0)
Quote from: mjkerr on July 18, 2015, 12:52:35 PM
Duplicate topic, already discussed :
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=8766.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=8766.0)
Who cares? That's an old topic (2012, so three years out of date) and the examples of factory weathering we're discussing here are different (and arguably better).
A forum isn't a book. It doesn't have an index. It doesn't cost money to create new pages. If you're going to direct someone to an older set of posts, instead of dismissing the present one as a "duplicate", why not simply observe, "we discussed this a few years back; some of those posts there might interest you".
Cheers, NeMo
Thanks, Nemo. The forum is basically a living breathing thing with a membership around the world.
Time zones are different.... me, for example!
But that is the whole point..... as NeMo says, just go with the flow and learn things on the way!
Oh, and have fun with the banter, too. :beers: :thumbsup:
George
Topics merged as it's all relevant to the discussion :thumbsup:
Paul
I fully appreciate the policy of weathering for those who want it and pristine for those who don't.
What annoys me (as I think others have said) is that Farish sometimes (actually increasingly often) don't offer a pristine version of a loco / livery when they do a weathered one. The upcoming 158's in Regional spring to the front of my mind. This would be a "must have" for me, but not if they only offer a grubby one.
I personally have 100% pristine fleet, but regard moving onto weathering as the "next stage" of my n gauge journey. Seriously thinking about how I can afford some of the work of Mercig (I saw a Dutch livery class 47 that he had done at TINGS last year, it was a thing of beauty) to have a look at how it should be done.
Of course, SOME of my fleet will always be gleaming (92!)
Skyline2uk
When I originally ordered the Farish Royal Scot (ref 372-579) it was because the catalogue at the time stated it was to be 'heavily weathered'.
This now seems to have been downgraded to just 'weathered' :scowl:
The other thing I've noticed about the earlier Farish weathering is that it can easily rub off with handling.
Yes, I've noticed that on some of my stock.
Quote from: davidinyork on July 17, 2015, 09:04:21 PMWhat do people think of Bachmann's practice of releasing models with factory weathering? This seems to be something they are doing with increasing number of locos in both gauges recently.
They are increasing the output of weathered models because experience has told them they sell! And on that basis they would be silly not to... As you say -
Quote from: davidinyork on July 17, 2015, 09:04:21 PMthey must have done research on what people want
Quote from: davidinyork on July 17, 2015, 09:04:21 PMThere are a number of recent / current / forthcoming Bachmann/Farish models which I would have bought but won't because they are weathered - I simply don't like them weathered
That is your opinion (which you are perfectly entitled to hold), however some others have different opinions (which they are equally entitled to); neither of you is 'wrong' - such is the nature of the hobby and the customer base the manufacturers have to deal with...
Quote from: Skyline2uk on July 18, 2015, 07:46:45 PM
What annoys me (as I think others have said) is that Farish sometimes (actually increasingly often) don't offer a pristine version of a loco / livery when they do a weathered one.
It must be emphasised however that there has
never been a model/livery combination produced ONLY in a weathered version. Every weathered model released to date by the big two manufacturers has had a 'clean' equivalent, albeit with a different running number and sometimes not released simultaneously. (more often than not, the clean version
preceded the weathered one by a year or so). In the same way that not every possible livery is released simultaneously, but they do appear eventually for those with patience...
Quote from: davidinyork on July 17, 2015, 09:04:21 PMDapol don't (so far as I know) supply anything weathered, and Hornby only do it occasionally.
Incorrect - in fact Dapol were the first to do it in N and have released a far greater proportion of their range with a weathered option...
This is a topic done several times on different forums and unfortunately some of the comments from the 'anti' camp do come across as suggesting that "
because they don't like it, it shouldn't be offered as an option for those who do". This thread hasn't (so far) quite descended to that level but some comments are heading that way. Please remember that it is an option in addition to the clean version and to date has never been the only option...
I think on some models weathering is essential. How many clean silver bullets do you see? I was also shocked to discover that the Megafrets are light blue underneath all that grime.
Locos and passenger stock seems to be cleaned much more frequently.
Regards,
John P
@PLD (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=647)
Happy (as ever) to be proved wrong, it's just that the pristine Reginal 158 is not listed at all in future releases. If weathered models sell well then it makes absolute sense that Bachman only do that version at first if there are limited production slots.
As I said nothing against the choice being offered (that's a good thing) so long as it continues to be a choice :thumbsup:
Skyline2uk
I must admit its a strange subject, I kind of like weathering on my stock, as it brings a bit of realism to the models, and it can hide a multitude of sins.
Really its not that difficult to do either, even without an airbrush, though I must admit I find it difficult to apply to some of my crimson Locomotives, but up to know only a couple have escaped :)
Its like everything though, our hobby has many different views and I think that is good, and people like many different things within it, I have even heard rumours that there are things called SR fans???
Quote from: Skyline2uk on July 19, 2015, 08:05:37 AM
Happy (as ever) to be proved wrong, it's just that the pristine Reginal 158 is not listed at all in future releases.
Not a 'Future Release' but a past release! It is a perfect example of what I described - the Clean version came first, and perhaps you have unfortunately missed it...
Catalog no #8707. First released circa 1998 (Poole manufactured) plus at least two Chinese made re-runs the last c 2011.
You should feel sorry for those wanting a weathered version who have had to wait almost 20 years after the original clean release!! ;)
The Farish Colas HHA? Only available weathered, which is a shame because it get the 'all over brown' treatment, which isn't how the prototypes look when dirty.
I get your point PLD, but a 5+ year old model is far enough back for it to be a very valid criticism I'd say. Technically yes a pristine one was available, but practically no.
I am aware of the Poole version (dummy and powered) but I am also aware and very much looking forward to the new tooling version, hopefully improving the mechanism which was a bit prone to failure (my NSE version has been to BR Bob twice over the years).
Skyline2uk
I can understand the frustration some people feel when the only available version of a loco, multiple unit or a piece of rolling stock is factory weathered and they want a pristine version. Last year I think the only maroon liveried BR Mk1 coaches in the catalogue were factory weathered (although I see pristine versions are now listed), which must be frustrating if you need a clean example. Funny how you never hear people complain when weathered versions are not available.
My main gripe with the weathered maroon Mk1s was the lack of consistency in the level of weathering and the choice of running number. Two (or is it three?) of the weathered Mk1s have weathering all the way up the sides of the coach while the latest coach (a BCK) had weathering just on the underframe. Bachmann also chose to use different regional prefixes on the weathered coaches; although apparently it was common to see trains made up from coaches from all over the network (and you can't really see the running number unless you're very close to the coach).
Some models need weathering to look their best - the Dapol Siphons and Fruit Ds look a bit shiny in their factory, un-weathered finish. The weathered Siphon looks much more pleasing (apart from the couplings but that's a different discussion) and I've given my Fruit D wagons a light dusting of matt brown to take away the 'plastic' appearance that they have out of the box. I do worry a little about destroying the value of my stock, and then I tell myself that I'm supposed to be a modeller not a collector.
As for weathered locos; I have the weathered Graham Farish Fairburn 2-6-4 tank, which I chose because I found the appearance more pleasing than the non-weathered examples. It isn't the best example of weathering - just a dusting of grey/brown - but I liked it.
It is great to have the choice of pristine or weathered models.
Quote from: PLD on July 19, 2015, 08:32:51 AM
Quote from: Skyline2uk on July 19, 2015, 08:05:37 AM
Happy (as ever) to be proved wrong, it's just that the pristine Reginal 158 is not listed at all in future releases.
Not a 'Future Release' but a past release! It is a perfect example of what I described - the Clean version came first, and perhaps you have unfortunately missed it...
Catalog no #8707. First released circa 1998 (Poole manufactured) plus at least two Chinese made re-runs the last c 2011.
You should feel sorry for those wanting a weathered version who have had to wait almost 20 years after the original clean release!! ;)
I think the point is that you are unlikely to find anywhere with stocks of something from 3 years ago (unless it's a poor seller), and with popular liveries they don't come up on ebay very often (and sell for a lot when they do). With Dapol the problem doesn't arise as they do weathered and unweathered versions in the same livery at around the same time, which works for everyone.
As for feeling sorry for those wanting a weathered version of something, it's much easier to add weathering to a model that it is to remove it...
Quote from: johnlambert on July 19, 2015, 09:54:18 AM
Last year I think the only maroon liveried BR Mk1 coaches in the catalogue were factory weathered (although I see pristine versions are now listed), which must be frustrating if you need a clean example. Funny how you never hear people complain when weathered versions are not available.
Just for you, John, I'll whinge about non-availability of a weathered maroon Mk1 and that's the item 374-187C (showing on their website as Nov/Dec) which I've been awaiting for ages. ;)
I find the biggest issue is not being able to make a full rake due to the manufacturers not releasing the required items at the same time, but this is true regardless of weathered/pristine and I'm drifting off topic, aren't I.
Nurse....NURSE!
As a teenager, I distinctly remember seeing a clean maroon mk1 in a rake of "weathered" coaches behind a very dirty two tone green 47 at Darlington, so there's a prototype for everything!
Quote from: newportnobby on July 19, 2015, 10:35:09 AM
Quote from: johnlambert on July 19, 2015, 09:54:18 AM
Funny how you never hear people complain when weathered versions are not available.
Just for you, John, I'll whinge about non-availability of a weathered maroon Mk1 and that's the item 374-187C (showing on their website as Nov/Dec) which I've been awaiting for ages. ;)
I find the biggest issue is not being able to make a full rake due to the manufacturers not releasing the required items at the same time, but this is true regardless of weathered/pristine and I'm drifting off topic, aren't I.
Nurse....NURSE!
Thanks, Nobby.
I can see your point about buying a complete train in one go. I am waiting for 374-187C too and 374-130B (which I need for my parcels train). While it is nice to spread the cost over several months it does leave you with the nagging doubt that the one coach you need will have sold out before you can buy it.
Quote from: Bealman on July 19, 2015, 10:57:50 AM
As a teenager, I distinctly remember seeing a clean maroon mk1 in a rake of "weathered" coaches behind a very dirty two tone green 47 at Darlington, so there's a prototype for everything!
I think that's something I sometimes forget; in the 'good old days' train formations were much more flexible, so there's no reason to expect that an entire train will be uniformly weathered. So it doesn't matter (not that it ever really matters) if you run a train that mixes weathered and unweathered stock.
Quote from: johnlambert on July 19, 2015, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: newportnobby on July 19, 2015, 10:35:09 AM
Quote from: johnlambert on July 19, 2015, 09:54:18 AM
Funny how you never hear people complain when weathered versions are not available.
Just for you, John, I'll whinge about non-availability of a weathered maroon Mk1 and that's the item 374-187C (showing on their website as Nov/Dec) which I've been awaiting for ages. ;)
I find the biggest issue is not being able to make a full rake due to the manufacturers not releasing the required items at the same time, but this is true regardless of weathered/pristine and I'm drifting off topic, aren't I.
Nurse....NURSE!
Thanks, Nobby.
I can see your point about buying a complete train in one go. I am waiting for 374-187C too and 374-130B (which I need for my parcels train). While it is nice to spread the cost over several months it does leave you with the nagging doubt that the one coach you need will have sold out before you can buy it.
Oh, you scoundrel, John. I hadn't seen that 374-130B so will now have to spend more dosh :doh:
(I have a couple of the pristine ones)
Quote from: davidinyork on July 17, 2015, 09:04:21 PM
My view is that for weathering to work the locos and stock need to be done consistently, and a factory-weathered loco isn't really going to achieve this unless a whole set of stock is also available to go with it, weathered in the same style (which isn't normally the case).
Not necessarily true. Particularly towards the end of steam, coaches were clean regularly (on the sides at least) which the steamers hauling them were allowed to get into a filthy state.
I tend to buy pristine but i have a few weathered items, particularly the Dapol stuff, as some of it is much better than I could do myself. I agree that weathering is a skill that can be learnt but it would require investing in an airbrush and a lot of practice. With a young family, time and money are not as plentiful as I would like so I am happy to buy a few weathered items if it is done well (as the more recent Dapol stuff tends to be).
If someone wants to practice, working on photos of the real thing is the only way to go. Mind you, you could always try this class 66. Even an all-over coat with a rattle can of grime might not be heavy enough. :smiley-laughing:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8207/8195257093_88fdde80cb_b.jpg)
Quote from: Karhedron on July 19, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
I agree that weathering is a skill that can be learnt but it would require investing in an airbrush and a lot of practice. With a young family, time and money are not as plentiful as I would like so I am happy to buy a few weathered items if it is done well (as the more recent Dapol stuff tends to be).
I think this is an important point. Many people don't weather their rolling stock because they're afraid they're going to mess things up, either in terms of appearance or by gumming up the mechanisms inside the model somehow.
Yes, you do need an airbrush, but a cheap (£60) Chinese compressor and airbrush will do the trick nicely. But once you've got that, then you can practise on cheap stuff first, a short wheelbase wagon for example. You're unlikely to 'ruin' a 12t van, as these were pretty diverse in reality, and often covered in all sorts of grime. If you do make a mistake, white spirit or IPA will remove enamel paint while leaving the original paintwork more or less intact (sometimes a bit of the matt varnish is lost, but that's easily replaced). I'm not saying weathering is risk-free, but it's easily undone, and if we're talking about a cheap Peco wagon bought secondhand, what have you got to lose? Many of their older models are improved immeasurably by having some of that plasticky look airbrushed away.
Weathering is also a fun pastime in itself and one of the bits of the hobby I've found myself getting better at relatively quickly. I'd recommend anyone give it a go! I've recently been trying out paint-fading techniques, and while it took a bit of experimentation, done right it's very effective. Since factory weathered diesels are usually weathered with darker shades, my faded models of the same diesels add variety to my collection.
Personally, I think weathering is essential unless you're buying your models as collectables with possible resale down the line (a perfectly logical and understandable approach).
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: Karhedron on July 19, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8207/8195257093_88fdde80cb_b.jpg)
Have you got the full running number for that one please Matt?
Looks like 66223 to me through the dirt :thumbsup:
On the subject of have-a-go weathering I've done a few wagons now and am quite happy with them, fairly easy with general grime and dirt just giving a little consideration to where dirt would accumulate depending on the shape of the wagon. I'll probably move on to my coaching stock as well but I doubt I'd do a loco though as it's much more specific and needs proper airbrushing as has already been said ;)
Paul
Quote from: Sprintex on July 19, 2015, 10:16:29 PM
Looks like 66223 to me through the dirt :thumbsup:
On the subject of have-a-go weathering I've done a few wagons now and am quite happy with them, fairly easy with general grime and dirt just giving a little consideration to where dirt would accumulate depending on the shape of the wagon. I'll probably move on to my coaching stock as well but I doubt I'd do a loco though as it's much more specific and needs proper airbrushing as has already been said ;)
Paul
I weather my stock, engines included without the aid of an Airbrush, perhaps I should buy one?
Having just had a look at Sprintex's layout thread, it reminded me of why I've taken to buying factory weathered stock.... it's not so much about me doubting my abilities as it is about me not actually being able to force myself to spoil such a lovely model!!