I started collecting to build a layout many years ago but due to work commitments never built a substantial layout but want to do so now.
When I started collecting DCC was in it's infancy and really only for OO or bigger scales at the time.
So I naturally went with DC control and as part of my collection I have two Gaugemaster dual track controllers which I was very happy with.
I would just like any opinions an whether I should stick with this DC control or as I have not built anything yet should I take the plunge and go to DCC?
As I see it :-
1) I already have the DC equipment and so no extras cost, but with approx 12 engines DCC would be a substantial cost. +1 DC
2) If I can get it wired up correctly I think I will be happy with DC and running up to 4 trains simultaneously. +1 DC
3) As I have quite a few points, slips etc I would think wiring up DCC would be much easier +1 DCC.
4) I am not familiar with DCC but as I see it it is more complicated to use as several engines can be moving at once all from same controller, so to stop one you have to first dial it's code up then command it to stop (or have I got this wrong ???). With DC you simply adjust the knob of the controller for that train (or switch off for an immediate stop). +1 DC
So all in all I am favouring stopping with the DC control as I cannot really afford the £300+ to change to DCC but at the same time would like to have the wiring up made easier and also do no want to wire for DC only to find out later I want to change to DCC and have to wire up again.
So any advice is welcome especially as I might be under some miscomprehension regarding DCC.
:thankyousign:
Steve
Hi
I know next to nothing about DCC but I was in the same situation as you 12 months ago with two DC twin track controllers - one with feedback for better slow running. As I had many old (up to 30 years) locos (Minitrix, Farish and Peco) I still wished to run and which at that time I thought were impossible to convert to contain a DCC chip I elected to stick to DC. Also, I had a large amount of Peco insufrog points that are not really suited to DCC and would be expensive to replace.
However I soon suspected that my feedback controller was not liked at all by the more moderen electronics in Farish and Dapol locos and lightbars and I stopped using it following many problems. I then bought a dedicated n gauge Vortrax 4 x track DC controller and all my electronic problems went away never to return.
If I knew 12 months ago what I know now I may have gone for DCC this time.
If I had I would have had better points and coaches would remain lit on trains waiting at stations. Also I would have had much better control over parked locos in sidings and maybe much less wiring and switches. But of course I wouild have had to buy a lot of points and the DCC system so now would have less engines and new stock.
What type of DC controllers do you have? If they are feedback type then I suggest you get some expert advice on whether they are suitable for modern DCC ready locos and lightbars etc.
As for advice on DCC I will leave that to the other experts on here.
Cheers
Mac
Thanks for that Mac, it is useful advice.
My controllers are Gauge master all with feedback / braking which I think can be switched out if required.
To me, it's a no-brainer - DCC.
I'm in effectively the same boat; I haven't a completed layout yet (this Winter !!!) and none of my locos are DCC-fitted, although several are DCC Ready. I only have a DC controller for N, but will be "retiring" my OO DCC controller for a new one hopefully this Christmas & then using the "retired" controller for my N layout (a Dynamis).
Wiring-wise, there isn't that much difference; depending on exactly how you do it, you can have both types on the same layout (this is what I'm intending).
Cost-wise, well, why not check & see if any of your engines are DCC Ready & pick up a suitable chip for it, as well as a low-cost controller (you say 12 engines - well, if some are going to be hard to convert you can get away with the basic GraFar controller, as you don't have a lot of engines). Learn how to use the controller with a single loco, then (as finances permit) add some more chips to Ready locos ? And when you want the others, just swap controllers to the DC. Cost : about £50 for the controller, and £13 upwards for the chips (depends on what you want)
Over time, move your collection from DC to DCC, and make sure new engines are DCC Ready (maybe get a chip when you buy 'em ?). As to immediate STOP - DCC has this; the entire layout ceases.
And don't forget - you can move into Sound for your favourite locos :D
You might be best advised in investing in a good book on the subjest - I went for "Aspects of Modeling - DCC" (here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aspects-Modelling-Digital-Control-Command/dp/0711031525 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aspects-Modelling-Digital-Control-Command/dp/0711031525) on Amazon - you can get better prices though, and make sure it's the 2nd Edition !!!), and this convinced me :D
Mike
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 12, 2012, 11:17:29 AM
To me, it's a no-brainer - DCC.
Cost-wise, well, why not check & see if any of your engines are DCC Ready & pick up a suitable chip for it, as well as a low-cost controller (you say 12 engines - well, if some are going to be hard to convert you can get away with the basic GraFar controller, as you don't have a lot of engines).
You might be best advised in investing in a good book on the subjest - I went for "Aspects of Modeling - DCC" (here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aspects-Modelling-Digital-Control-Command/dp/0711031525 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aspects-Modelling-Digital-Control-Command/dp/0711031525) on Amazon - you can get better prices though, and make sure it's the 2nd Edition !!!), and this convinced me :D
Mike
Thanks Mike.
I will check but as I bought my last engine about 4 years ago I doubt any are DCC ready and the older ones are definitely not.
But am I right in thinking that just about all engines can be converted???
Regarding the book it's now ordered and thanks for the heads up about 2nd edition. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Steve.T on September 12, 2012, 11:40:13 AM
But am I right in thinking that just about all engines can be converted???
Yes, but ... :hmmm: Some are particularly tricky to do, eg the split chassis GraFars are generally considered a little awkward. I would advise asking on here as to how easy
or otherwise members have found a particular model. Remember - you can always take it to a local model shop to have a chip fitted, or send it off if you don't have one locally that offers this service.
There are a lot of sites out there with walk-throughs on converting locos, but if you aren't convinced you can do it - let someone who does it regularly handle it for you :) If you
do want to learn, DCC Supplies (who are now the Dapol maintenance peeps :admiration: ) do training sessions on how to fit a decoder (I did a session last year on a OO SWMBO wanted DCCing & found it invaluable).
Quote
Regarding the book it's now ordered and thanks for the heads up about 2nd edition. :thumbsup:
No probs :beers:
Thanks, perhaps I need to list the engines I have then and get advice to whether converting those to DCC is practical or possible.
Would it be best to list them on this thread or start one in the DCC section ?
Probably a new one, else we may suffer the wrath of a certain Moderator :zippedmouth: :laugh:
I hope you have more success with DCC than my mate, he has several different brands of DCC locos some of which cause his setup to shut down because of incompatibility problems, he sells the locos that cause the problems, between that and him chucking his Bachmann Dynamis controller thingy across the other side of his 24 foot long shed it has put me off DCC for life.
To me DC is the only method to use. Far simpler and cheaper.
I had this same discussion with myself last week. :) I arrived at the same conclusion, I'm going to stick with my DC controller. I figured it's going to be a bit easier for this old brain to work out what to do. :)
Having decided to go DCC around 4 years ago i would never consider going back to DC. I find it easier to wire the track (i still wire my points the standard method) and i've found my dynamis to be a very user friendly system (never had a problem).
I also like the use of Sound, i now have 5 models sound fitted.
Ollie
Many thanks for all the replies.
Seems that there are fans of both systems so I guess I need to read up a bit on the DCC and make my mind up after weighing up the pros and cons.
My immediate thoughts are that both systems have their advantages and disadvantages.
Doesn't stop me making a start though as there is plenty of prep work to do.
:thankyousign:
Are there any track cleaners you can use with DCC yet?
I have had a bit of a search for the answer and most forums say no but the threads I have seen so far are a year or two old so thought things might have changed.
I have some Gaugemaster track cleaners but guess these are a no no with DCC.
QuoteI have some Gaugemaster track cleaners but guess these are a no no with DCC.
BIG No No! They will damage your chips in any thing that's left on the track.
Quote from: Jack9465 on September 12, 2012, 07:19:46 PM
QuoteI have some Gaugemaster track cleaners but guess these are a no no with DCC.
BIG No No! They will damage your chips in any thing that's left on the track.
Thought so.
Does that mean that there are no track cleaners for use with DCC?
Quote from: Steve.T on September 12, 2012, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: Jack9465 on September 12, 2012, 07:19:46 PM
QuoteI have some Gaugemaster track cleaners but guess these are a no no with DCC.
BIG No No! They will damage your chips in any thing that's left on the track.
Thought so.
Does that mean that there are no track cleaners for use with DCC?
There is, probably the best one - Mk1 elbow grease and a cloth that has something like IPA (not the beer) on it. Woodland Scenics make a track maintenance system but I don't know what it's like.
Quote from: Jack9465 on September 12, 2012, 07:39:12 PM
There is, probably the best one - Mk1 elbow grease and a cloth that has something like IPA (not the beer) on it. Woodland Scenics make a track maintenance system but I don't know what it's like.
:laughabovepost:
IPA certainly more alchoholic than the beer.
For cleaning the track DC or DCC go for the CMX cleaner filled with IPA pushed not pulled round the layout gives superb results everytime :)
You beat me to it, Nick ...
But it does have a minor disadvantage - the price is more than some DCC systems :veryangry:
I thought someone posted somewhere that it gave problems with getting past platforms because it was a bit too wide.
Allan
Quote from: macwales on September 12, 2012, 11:09:53 AM
Hi
I know next to nothing about DCC but I was in the same situation as you 12 months ago with two DC twin track controllers - one with feedback for better slow running. As I had many old (up to 30 years) locos (Minitrix, Farish and Peco) I still wished to run and which at that time I thought were impossible to convert to contain a DCC chip I elected to stick to DC. Also, I had a large amount of Peco insufrog points that are not really suited to DCC and would be expensive to replace.
However I soon suspected that my feedback controller was not liked at all by the more moderen electronics in Farish and Dapol locos and lightbars and I stopped using it following many problems. I then bought a dedicated n gauge Vortrax 4 x track DC controller and all my electronic problems went away never to return.
If I knew 12 months ago what I know now I may have gone for DCC this time.
If I had I would have had better points and coaches would remain lit on trains waiting at stations. Also I would have had much better control over parked locos in sidings and maybe much less wiring and switches. But of course I wouild have had to buy a lot of points and the DCC system so now would have less engines and new stock.
What type of DC controllers do you have? If they are feedback type then I suggest you get some expert advice on whether they are suitable for modern DCC ready locos and lightbars etc.
As for advice on DCC I will leave that to the other experts on here.
Cheers
Mac
Can you not use insulfrog points with Dcc? i have a layout built and was thinking of converting over to DCC
Thanks
Carl
You can use insulfrog points but you run the risk of shorts from the wheels on the exit from the frog where the "V" is. You might also get poor slow speed running over the points .
I pulled all the insulfrog points I had laid out and went to electrofrog,that stopped all the arcing as my Dapol Class 26 went over the points,it also meant that I had no problem slow running over the points.
I haven't wired the frogs to a switch,I just fitted insulated joiners to the frog and I rely on blade contact just like the insulfrog points.
Allan
Just read an article in a 2006 Railway Modeller Mag where they wrote " don't know why anyone would want to build a new layout and not use DCC ???
The next two months editions readers letters were mainly against that idea and as usual it finished up like a dog chasing its tail, one contributor pointed out that Radio, Records, Videos and many other things have gone Digital so why not model railways.
I myself would not get involved in such a pointless debate as to me its to each his/her own to decide how they run their trains.
For me personally not everything that went digital is great, in my area I cannot receive digital radio but poor old AM comes in loud and strong, I listen to FM on my Digital Radio, it is also pretty unanimous among HiFi addicts think the old vinyl sounds better than CDs.
Back to railways I am not in the least bit interested in DCC as visiting mates layouts that went DCC they seemed to spend a load of time programing the things and different brands of sound chips each needed a different button to make the horn work, I can do without that messing around as I just want to run trains not program them, for those that do run DCC I take my hat off to you because you have more patience than me so good luck to you.
Quote from: oldrailbug on September 17, 2012, 09:54:18 AM
DCC they seemed to spend a load of time programing the things and different brands of sound chips each needed a different button to make the horn work
That configurable. Dunno about down under but the usual UK default is 2 for horn and you can just move the function assignments around (as with the lights).
Mind you I run with JMRI so my controller doesn't say "2" it says "Horn" if the loco has one, likewise the buttons are properly labelled per loco for things like "doors closing" and "flange squeal"
DCC is very much a driving the train thing rather than a 'playing God(ess) in the signal box' thing.
Alan
Quote from: oldrailbug on September 17, 2012, 09:54:18 AM
Back to railways I am not in the least bit interested in DCC as visiting mates layouts that went DCC they seemed to spend a load of time programing the things and different brands of sound chips each needed a different button to make the horn work, I can do without that messing around as I just want to run trains not program them, for those that do run DCC I take my hat off to you because you have more patience than me so good luck to you.
I must admit this is one of the things that I am worried about if I do go DCC.
I also liked to use electronic track cleaners which of course I can't if DCC.
But as you say it is up the the individual and as yet have not made up my mind.
Thought I would build the MERG DCC controller and try it out first on a test track as I have absolutely no experience with DCC to make my mind up.
But so glad for all the input so far on this thread. :thumbsup:
My mates model American HO and buy several different brands of locomotives or fit various brands of chips, I know that Proto 2000 locos use different numbers assigned to their locos and there are a couple of others as well, certain other brands of locos short out the whole system when placed on the track, I know one mate had to sell locos that did this,
For my feeble brain life is complicated enough without getting involved with DCC :D :D :D :D all I can say is thank goodness there is still DC, having said that its each to their own :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Quote from: Steve.T on September 17, 2012, 11:49:39 AM
I must admit this is one of the things that I am worried about if I do go DCC.
I also liked to use electronic track cleaners which of course I can't if DCC.
It's actually much less of an issue than you'd expect because you've got a continuous 16v AC or a bit higher between the rails and the wheels so its a fair bit less vulnerable to the kind of dirt a track cleaner fixes.
Back to 3 rail everyone 8)