:D :goggleeyes: :dunce:
I know: duh!!
I just bit-the-bullet and tallied what I've spent the last two months to get (pretty much) everything I need for Black Douglas Vale...
:*(
This doesn't include expenses from 8-12 years ago (mostly locos) already spent.
Well, if you will insist on eating as well...
Any hobby can be expensive! I spend far less on model railways than my wife does on musical instruments. Golf, boats, pets, they can all cost a fortune, but you can do hobbies on the cheap if you don't mind having to accept second best sometimes.
Cheers,
Chris
This hobby may be expensive, but it's not compulsory.
Quote from: Western Exile on March 20, 2026, 10:11:32 PMThis hobby may be expensive, but it's not compulsory.
:hmmm: :hmmm: You sure? :D
Everything is expensive these days and/or is getting more so, but you can contain you outlay by not purchasing every new product that is launched, making things from cheaper materials, and budgeting your expenditure over a longer period. Set monthly limits on hobby spending to what you can afford and stick to it.
I agree that prices of new locos and rolling stock are utterly staggering.
I am lucky, in that I probably could afford to buy new wagons for 2-3 hours' minimum wage or locos for 15-20, but I refuse to.
The vast majority of my collection is (at least) second hand, and I enjoy customising it all the more because it's old, worn and cheap (like me!)
Mike
I'm with
@maridunian on this one.
Apart from Peco and Kato products, I don't buy new nowadays.
Instead, my Imaginary Friend, Bertie Poppingham, and I founded SPAM - the Society for the Preservation of Ancient Models. We try to buy old models on the cheap by 'bottom-feeding' on ebay and the like. Bertie, being Lord Pandaford to all but his family and close friends, has a more aristocratically polite term for this - 'floundering'.
Unloved model purchased and then agreeable time spent escaping from the world refurbishing it. Pure joy!
And then the, by now, much-loved and
SuperSpiffing model can be played with on the Table-Top Railway. What a wonderful hobby.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/158/6222-210326091055.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=158816)
You see...
...'N' Gauge is Such Cheap Fun!With all good wishes.
John
Quote from: Bazza on March 21, 2026, 08:40:09 AMEverything is expensive these days and/or is getting more so, but you can contain you outlay by not purchasing very new product that is launched, making things from cheaper materials
Indeed, making things yourself can save a lot of money - granted not if you cost in your time, but making things yourself is surely at least half the fun of the hobby.
For example, by using our 3D printer I've made coaches for the club (and for me) for around £15 a pop, wagons for £8-9 and locos for around £70-80 - all models that cannot be bought off the shelf anyway.
Another example; I'm currently making some walkabout controllers for the club. A Gaugemaster one costs around £70 with a power supply or £55 without. The ones I'm making are costing in at £35 with a power supply, £20 without - and that's including postage for the various bits individually, if I were to shop around I could undoubtedly get them for less.
Quote from: chrism on March 21, 2026, 09:24:34 AMAnother example; I'm currently making some walkabout controllers for the club. A Gaugemaster one costs around £70 with a power supply or £55 without. The ones I'm making are costing in at £35 with a power supply, £20 without - and that's including postage for the various bits individually, if I were to shop around I could undoubtedly get them for less.
@chrism What you don't say is how many hours it takes you to build said walkabouts and what your hourly rate is. Does it still come out cheaper, and Gaugemaster have a lifetime warranty?
Just acting Devil's advocate :hmmm:
Quote from: chrism on March 21, 2026, 09:24:34 AMIndeed, making things yourself can save a lot of money - granted not if you cost in your time, but making things yourself is surely at least half the fun of the hobby.
Why would you cost in your time when working on your hobby? That'd be like costing your time to read a book, watch a TV programme or undertake any other enjoyment pastime. If modelling is your hobby you'll no doubt find time spent on it rewarding and fun.
IMO costing and charging for time would be for business activity if undertaking your hobby on a commercial commission basis to generate revenue.
Quote from: Newportnobby on March 21, 2026, 09:43:34 AMQuote from: chrism on March 21, 2026, 09:24:34 AMAnother example; I'm currently making some walkabout controllers for the club. A Gaugemaster one costs around £70 with a power supply or £55 without. The ones I'm making are costing in at £35 with a power supply, £20 without - and that's including postage for the various bits individually, if I were to shop around I could undoubtedly get them for less.
@chrism What you don't say is how many hours it takes you to build said walkabouts and what your hourly rate is.
It's called "fun time", no charge :smiley-laughing:
It wouldn't be for you, of course, because it involves, ahem, soldering :P
Quote from: chrism on March 21, 2026, 10:51:34 AMQuote from: Newportnobby on March 21, 2026, 09:43:34 AMQuote from: chrism on March 21, 2026, 09:24:34 AMAnother example; I'm currently making some walkabout controllers for the club. A Gaugemaster one costs around £70 with a power supply or £55 without. The ones I'm making are costing in at £35 with a power supply, £20 without - and that's including postage for the various bits individually, if I were to shop around I could undoubtedly get them for less.
@chrism What you don't say is how many hours it takes you to build said walkabouts and what your hourly rate is.
It's called "fun time", no charge :smiley-laughing:
It wouldn't be for you, of course, because it involves, ahem, soldering :P
:laughabovepost:
But then the comparison is wrong because Gaugemaster don't do it for fun. They do it for commercial gain :nerner:
Quote from: Newportnobby on March 21, 2026, 10:58:07 AMQuote from: chrism on March 21, 2026, 10:51:34 AMQuote from: Newportnobby on March 21, 2026, 09:43:34 AMQuote from: chrism on March 21, 2026, 09:24:34 AMAnother example; I'm currently making some walkabout controllers for the club. A Gaugemaster one costs around £70 with a power supply or £55 without. The ones I'm making are costing in at £35 with a power supply, £20 without - and that's including postage for the various bits individually, if I were to shop around I could undoubtedly get them for less.
@chrism What you don't say is how many hours it takes you to build said walkabouts and what your hourly rate is.
It's called "fun time", no charge :smiley-laughing:
It wouldn't be for you, of course, because it involves, ahem, soldering :P
:laughabovepost:
But then the comparison is wrong because Gaugemaster don't do it for fun. They do it for commercial gain :nerner:
Which is, of course, why they charge what they do.
Quote from: maridunian on March 21, 2026, 08:52:20 AMI agree that prices of new locos and rolling stock are utterly staggering.
I am lucky, in that I probably could afford to buy new wagons for 2-3 hours' minimum wage or locos for 15-20, but I refuse to.
The vast majority of my collection is (at least) second hand, and I enjoy customising it all the more because it's old, worn and cheap (like me!)
Mike
In the past five years I think I've bought 4 half price coaches, one 33% off coach and a 47 with sound on special offer. It's simply too expensive a hobby at this point, and I am certainly not in the lower wealth bracket either.
People ask me why all the kids play train sims or model stuff in them instead, or in minecraft and stuff. There's a really simple pair of answers - cost and space.
I don't see some of the vendors surviving much longer if there is a big downturn. Peco are looking very wobbly, Hornby have problems but are at least trying to get a handle on them.
i'm in the fortunate position in that i can afford to buy any brand new models i might want...but simply because i WONT buy them at the prices they are.
Even 2nd ( or tenth) hand stuff is often listed at laughable prices--because these del boy type dealers think they can rip off enough innocent punters who dont know the real worth of what they are buying.
Like several others have mentioned--i get most pleasure in buying and bashing cheap models into something not available to buy off the shelf.
I would say model railways are actually a cheap hobby. Yes you need to buy some trains and build a layout as an enter cost. But that's it. The ongoing costs are negligible; maintenance costs are very low, and you don't need to buy more trains. If you decide to sell up then you have very strong residuals.
I used to cycle competitively. A top mountain bike was about £6000 (you can easily spend double that now), you could reckon on spending probably £500–£1000 annually on consumables, just to keep the thing going! Then after a year it was worth £3000.
Quote from: njee20 on March 21, 2026, 11:58:01 PMI would say model railways are actually a cheap hobby. Yes you need to buy some trains and build a layout as an enter cost. But that's it. The ongoing costs are negligible; maintenance costs are very low, and you don't need to buy more trains. If you decide to sell up then you have very strong residuals.
I used to cycle competitively. A top mountain bike was about £6000 (you can easily spend double that now), you could reckon on spending probably £500–£1000 annually on consumables, just to keep the thing going! Then after a year it was worth £3000.
This is a good point. "Start up" costs can be high(ish) but once you're up and running it does/can level off.
Scott
At least you have the benefit of a strongish US$. Our Oz$ is worth only 70 cents of yours.
EtchedPixels telling us that Peco is a bit wobbly is cause for concern for future track and rolling stock availability.
Model railways can be as cheap as you want it to be, or the opposite.
Webbo
Quote from: EtchedPixels on March 21, 2026, 12:30:37 PMQuote from: maridunian on March 21, 2026, 08:52:20 AMI agree that prices of new locos and rolling stock are utterly staggering.
I am lucky, in that I probably could afford to buy new wagons for 2-3 hours' minimum wage or locos for 15-20, but I refuse to.
The vast majority of my collection is (at least) second hand, and I enjoy customising it all the more because it's old, worn and cheap (like me!)
Mike
In the past five years I think I've bought 4 half price coaches, one 33% off coach and a 47 with sound on special offer. It's simply too expensive a hobby at this point, and I am certainly not in the lower wealth bracket either.
People ask me why all the kids play train sims or model stuff in them instead, or in minecraft and stuff. There's a really simple pair of answers - cost and space.
I don't see some of the vendors surviving much longer if there is a big downturn. Peco are looking very wobbly, Hornby have problems but are at least trying to get a handle on them.
What evidence do you have to suggest Peco as being "very wobbly" I have heard no such thing, they are and always have been a very well managed business? The closure of Pecorama was a business decision based on the fact it made losses for many months of the year that the core business could no longer justify absorbing. That reflects issues in the leisure industry not their core business and it is a sign of a well run business to recognise the issue and act to mitigate not the other way round. Personally I don't think it is at all helpful making such statements unless there is hard evidence to back it up.
Quote from: Webbo on March 22, 2026, 05:09:03 AMScott
At least you have the benefit of a strongish US$. Our Oz$ is worth only 70 cents of yours.
EtchedPixels telling us that Peco is a bit wobbly is cause for concern for future track and rolling stock availability.
Model railways can be as cheap as you want it to be, or the opposite.
Webbo
I think there was a click bait element to EtchedPixels video headline. In the end he said he thought Peco were OK. Yes Peco have made a loss the last couple of years and they have closed Pecorama for this year because it was making a loss. We don't know but its quite probable that the rest of the business is good. Incidentally the Beer Heights Light Railway is still doing experience days and the management at Peco have stated the hope to be able to re-open Pecorama in 2027 albeit in a different format. When you look at the Peco accounts they have cash and cash equivalents of over £4 million and no ongoing debt which means they certainly aren't "wobbly".
Back to the hobby being expensive. It is more expensive than we would like but then isn't everything? I took my sister and her hubby out to lunch at a pleasant but not luxurious restaurant earlier this week and it cost me £99 for the four of us. That's not far off the cost of a Rapido 45 for something that only lasts a few hours. Also I'm taking grandchildren to Statfold Country Park for Thomas Day which has cost the price of another Rapido 45. In comparison to many things in life today our hobby doesn't seem so expensive.
Chris,
Bear in mind, that the £99 meal provided enjoyment for four persons, not just for you. An equivalent $200 for a decent meal in Australia for four sounds quite alright to me.
I'm happy to hear from both Chris and Roy that there is seemingly nothing to worry about regarding the fortunes of Peco. Thank you :) .
Webbo
Wot Webbo said. :thumbsup:
In my early 70s I have to say that model railways have always been a bit on the expensive side.
My first layout was a Christmas present aged 8. It was a second hand H/D 3 rail oval with a siding. An N2 loco and 5 tinplate wagons. Anything new at this time was beyond my parents purchasing. Triang in the 60s was also a tad expensive. Therefore nothing has really changed.
Of course back in the day it was produced in the U.K. So much now appears to be made in China.
Many, if not most of us will accept the explanation that the costs of production in China were so much cheaper than in the U.K. Indeed, Peco have said they cannot produce a loco in the U.K. at an acceptable price.
Of course, over time production costs in China have increased, along with wages for their production staff. All this will have filtered through to us the potential buyer.
Something tha puzzles me is the 15% discount applied to models that are still in production and not reached our shores. Why not simply have a 15% lower price that applies to all retailers, large and small?
Bachmann Scenecraft buildings.
They start off at a high price when introduced. Over time many appear with the larger retailers at greatly reduced price compared to the oringinal rrp...sometime40-50% price reductions.
I imagine in the current economic situation, many will have become focussed on their purchases, with less "on a whim" purchases. For many, hobbies can become the first area of spending that is cut back or curtailed.
Quote from: maridunian on March 21, 2026, 08:52:20 AMI agree that prices of new locos and rolling stock are utterly staggering.
I am lucky, in that I probably could afford to buy new wagons for 2-3 hours' minimum wage or locos for 15-20, but I refuse to.
The vast majority of my collection is (at least) second hand, and I enjoy customising it all the more because it's old, worn and cheap (like me!)
Mike
A bit of Googling has come up with a Farish price list from 1998. Running the prices truth the Bank of England's inflation calculator, some prices have gone up massively, but others haven't. But 30 years ago the best we could hope for was something that was vaguely the right shape. One piece mouldings, generic chassis, poor livery applications, shiny wheels with huge flanges. Little more than toys compared to today's models.
Back then the RRP of a Farish 8F was £83.95. Today that would be £165, about the current price of one (if you can find one!), but today's model is vastly superior. Mk1s were £11.95, today's equivalent is £24, but they retail for about £30. Slightly more expensive in real terms, but again, the current offering is a huge improvement on the Farish offering back then, which was a simple plastic shell with a livery printed on.
Wagons have gone up a lot in proportion however. £4.15 for a simple open wagon would be £8.15 today, but instead they're often nearly double that.
The price of the actual materials is negligible compared to other manufacturing costs. Moulds need to be produced, staff need to be employed, factories need to be run and maintained. Hence why Rails can sell Dapol O gauge railcars for less than £200, yet the N gauge equivalent is £133, despite being a fraction of the size.
Quote from: trkilliman on March 22, 2026, 07:39:19 AMSomething tha puzzles me is the 15% discount applied to models that are still in production and not reached our shores. Why not simply have a 15% lower price that applies to all retailers, large and small?
Because that would require everyone in the supply chain take a hit on their margins. Instead the large retailers, who no doubt negotiate better prices from the manufacturers for the large quantities they order, can afford to prioritise quantity over unit price.
Quote from: njee20 on March 22, 2026, 09:11:12 AMQuote from: trkilliman on March 22, 2026, 07:39:19 AMSomething tha puzzles me is the 15% discount applied to models that are still in production and not reached our shores. Why not simply have a 15% lower price that applies to all retailers, large and small?
Because that would require everyone in the supply chain take a hit on their margins. Instead the large retailers, who no doubt negotiate better prices from the manufacturers for the large quantities they order, can afford to prioritise quantity over unit price.
And not all retailers are part of some manufacturers approved suppliers
Quote from: Chris Morris on March 22, 2026, 06:48:49 AMI think there was a click bait element to EtchedPixels video headline.
Sorry I'm totally confused. What video - what are you talking about ?
I'm just looking at their returns and cash holdings over the past few years.
Quote from: Webbo on March 22, 2026, 07:22:16 AMChris,
Bear in mind, that the £99 meal provided enjoyment for four persons, not just for you. An equivalent $200 for a decent meal in Australia for four sounds quite alright to me.
Not sure a meal is a good comparison. There was a period when N scale models lasted about as long as a meal ;) but these days they can provide enjoyment for far longer than a good steak.
Quote from: EtchedPixels on March 22, 2026, 09:11:58 PMQuote from: Webbo on March 22, 2026, 07:22:16 AMChris,
Bear in mind, that the £99 meal provided enjoyment for four persons, not just for you. An equivalent $200 for a decent meal in Australia for four sounds quite alright to me.
Not sure a meal is a good comparison. There was a period when N scale models lasted about as long as a meal ;) but these days they can provide enjoyment for far longer than a good steak.
But a good steak is a lot tastier . . .
Model railways expensive?
I sail..
Admittedly I'm on the cheap end of the market, per year..
Sailing club membership family £180
Broads tax sailing boat £74.22, paid that yesterday..
Insurance £96
Crane club membership ( to lift boat in and out) £75
Average cost of Maintenance £350
Mooring fee should be £320.
But costs are rapidly increasing, before Tango man's current adventures a 2 litre tin of antifouling £187... As the antifouling is made from oil based products.....
Then paint, varnishes, sailcloth, lifejackets, waterproofs are all made from oil...
Quote from: The Q on March 22, 2026, 09:56:16 PMThen paint, varnishes, sailcloth, lifejackets, waterproofs are all made from oil...
As, of course, are 90% of model railway items. If the current situation continues I suspect many of our suppliers will be reassessing how many new items it's prudent for them to produce and at what price points.
Buying a train-set might be seen as expensive versus other toys!
putting hundreds of hours into railway modelling without charging for labour might be seen as unrealistic!
making one-off scale replicas of scenic items by 3D printing might be seen as costly though they would be unique!
acquiring specific rolling stock to match a period could be seen as extravagant but it complements the layout!
Gathering materials 'which might come in useful' only to be seen as Steptoe!
Saving unused quantities of anything you liked the look of, for the layout, then getting more storage!
Buying an expensive item you liked, which didn't quite fit the layout scenario, but was a bargain!
Now ask yourself if you've given a second thought to the cost of doing any/all the above in order to enjoy railway modelling?
Many good points already made.
Yes, expensive if you set out to build a large layout from scratch with all new stock.
But generally models last.
In my case I can go right back to the age of 4, which is now 65 years ago, to my first Tri-ang Princess Victoria train set. I built up a large 00 collection which I sold off in 1977 to fund N Gauge, which I have continued with ever since.
So, although it would cost a considerable amount now to replace my current collection with all new models, the cost has been spread over 65 years.
Over the last 25 or so years I have probably spent more on guitar lessons than trains.
And it's easy to spend lots of money on other hobbies. Sailing has already been mentioned, how about Hi-Fi, Classic Cars, travel, Stamp and Coin Collecting, etc.
Everything is expensive these days...
As far as model railways is concerned I think it the trend to produce more detailed a featured models to replicate full size operation that is pushing prices high. Years ago manufactures made a big thing of having separately fitted hand rails to give better realism compared to the previous tooling that had moulded parts. These days its not uncommon to find the dials inside the cab illuminated, and even (in 00 gauge at least) pantographs that raise and lower via servo control. All these features and very fragile detailing features result in a £400 loco, which with equally detailed coaches can mean that one train cost upwards of a £1000. Most manufactures claim its because their customers "asked or demanded" this fine level of detail which may or may not be the case.
Personally I've never purchased a brand new loco. These days you can pick up decent second hand bargains for less than the cost of a take-away for the family. Then there are the kits that NGS produce, adding fun of putting them together but still producing a detailed and valued addition to the collection.