ok...
so my new class 101 arrived (3 car blue/grey). it looks fantastic. everything is happy at this stage!
1) getting the body of was very difficult and highly dangerous given the underframe detailing, but it was done without breaking anything! hurrraahhh!!!
2) it runs, but sounds like it has wheel flats / something is hitting the sleepers!!! so after some investigations i decided to take the bogies to pieces, and broke some detailing off!!! fit of rage ensued.... but on reassembly it does sound much better so it's a score draw really... and the detailing i can glue back on.... so that's not too much of a disaster!
3).... the dmu short circuits on the points at least 50% of the time, like my other bachmann dmus do....!!!! much rage.... check back to backs and point blade alignment... no joy.... much more rage along with thoughts of switching to O gauge or OO gauge!!!!
i have now emailed the n gauge helpline and the samaritans!!!
Tim
:Class31: :Carriage:
Back in the box and return to sender Tim and demand a full and immediate refund (it is your right for defective goods [distance selling & sale of goods acts] ), it really is time that the British public started complaining vociferously when we get shoddy goods, or no one will take a blind bit of notice, but we have to keep our complaints factual and precise.
Gee Lawrence things must be great back home, I had a mate that took a Hornbt DMU back to the shop because it wasn't working properly, they said they would send it for repair, six weeks later he went back to the shop and was told it wasn't back from repair yet, he asked for his money back and they told him flatly "we dont do refunds", this blew up into an argument with the manager who after a lot of yelling gave him his money back, some weeks later he went back to the shop and spotted a loco he liked but was told "the boss said we are not allowed to sell you anything with a motor in it", a few of us got together to spread the word as we hate being ripped off.
Quote from: bluedepot on July 20, 2012, 10:13:58 PM
ok...
so my new class 101 arrived (3 car blue/grey). it looks fantastic. everything is happy at this stage!
3).... the dmu short circuits on the points at least 50% of the time, like my other bachmann dmus do....!!!! much rage.... check back to backs and point blade alignment... no joy.... much more rage along with thoughts of switching to O gauge or OO gauge!!!!
i have now emailed the n gauge helpline and the samaritans!!!
Tim
Just wondering if you're using Insulfrog points because I had the problem of shorting on the frog exit part,ended up swapping all my points for Electrofrog and no problems now.
Just did a straight swap without wiring the frog through a switch.
Allan
Hi,
Don't want to enrage you further but with regard to sending it back, saw a programme on sending anything back and they said that because you tried to fix it yourself any gaurantee was invalid. So 'don't tell 'em Pike'. Say it came like that and make up something about the snapped off detail.
Don't take that as gospel but look into it before you do anything like that.
Hope helps.
Weave.
I think it might be obvious that you've taken it apart and broken a bit off so it might be worth re-considering whether to send it back or not and lie about the damage.
Besides it might perform okay on other layouts and it could be worth checking that out by running it on another layout. That would confirm if it is your layout/track/wiring that is problem, especially in light of the fact that you've had the same/similar problems with other products.
Take a few deep breaths and give it some thought. Did you actually find out what was causing the 'wheel flat' sound probem other than it went away when you broke a bit off?
Methodically, thoroughly and carefully go through all the potential problems and eliminate them one at a time. Get your eye right down to track level and run it slowly to see where any shorting and/or the noise occurs. Does it always happen in the same places? Run it on plain test track, okay? Then introduce a left point, okay? Then a right point, etc. Try and find out exactly where, when and what the problems are rather than just it sometimes shorts. Once you know exactly what the cause is it is then usually easy to fix.
Good luck.
H.
Check the wheel back-to-back with a suitable gauge before sending it off... It may be a very simple fix...
Quote from: oldrailbug on July 20, 2012, 11:02:25 PM
. . . was told "the boss said we are not allowed to sell you anything with a motor in it", a few of us got together to spread the word as we hate being ripped off.
A bit of a palaver to get a refund which ought have been an option to start with. I guess we don't know how the 'argument' went but I like the shopkeepers sanction as a result. However, having got the money back how was anyone ripped off?
H.
Quote from: H on July 21, 2012, 08:29:40 AM
Quote from: oldrailbug on July 20, 2012, 11:02:25 PM
. . . was told "the boss said we are not allowed to sell you anything with a motor in it", a few of us got together to spread the word as we hate being ripped off.
A bit of a palaver to get a refund which ought have been an option to start with. I guess we don't know how the 'argument' went but I like the shopkeepers sanction as a result. However, having got the money back how was anyone ripped off?
H.
No problem there I guess seeing as he got his money back and the fact that he had to fight for a refund he wasn't ripped off as such,I did explain this in my original post
"a few of us got together to spread the word as we hate being ripped off."
The people we associate with don't take kindly to having a staff member or store manager tell them that they are not entitled to or going to get a refund on a faulty item, in Australia there are other ways of getting ripped off other than financial transactions. shonky shops that treat people the way he was treated are considered to be rip offs.
Quote from: oldrailbug on July 21, 2012, 09:49:03 AM
No problem there I guess seeing as he got his money back and the fact that he had to fight for a refund he wasn't ripped off as such,I did explain this in my original post
"a few of us got together to spread the word as we hate being ripped off."
I think I understand what you mean. The way you originally wrote it makes it sound like you got together after he got the money back (which was presumably after the argument) because you felt he had been ripped off.
Quote from: oldrailbug on July 21, 2012, 09:49:03 AM
in Australia there are other ways of getting ripped off other than financial transactions.
Yep, that goes for the world over, not just Aus.
H.
If its several shorting then its almost certainly the track. Peco insulfrog points have particular problems if they are pinned down distorted. The two rails into the plastic frog are no longer lying flat and a passing wheel can short across both as a result.
There are two fixes for that. The better one is to lay the track properly, but if its been nailed down too hard its often too late. In which case if this is the problem making sure you only feed power to the blades of the point and insulate the other side (as if it were electrofrog)
The usual cause is someone trying to fix the points with trackpins in the point itself (and sometimes doing the novice thing of assuming the goal is to basically embed the track in the board rather than hold it lightly in place) but I've seen a couple of out of the box cases where either the manufacturing must have gone astray or the post office had fun.
The quick tester for that is to cut a small piece of tape (ideally insulation tape).
Run the problem loco over the shorting point and verify it shorts. Now cover the other rail out of the frog (the path not being taken) with insulation tape and repeat.
If that doesn't help then it points to a blade problem or wheels. In both cases the feeding only from the blade end fix should also cure that for insulfrog points.
hi all, thanks for the replies!
the dmu runs fine now.... apart from the short circuiting on points... but this problem is common to all my dmus. i wont send it back as the sound is normal after i took apart and reassembled the bogie.
i use electro frog points.
good idea ep re the insulation tape, i will try that.
i have also contacted the n gauge society help line for advice.
cheers
tim
Quote from: bluedepot on July 22, 2012, 11:34:14 AMthis problem is common to all my dmus.
I've got a 108... does this mean I will have to cut the rails between the frog and point blades, and connect them to the outside rails like is done on OO gauge? I thought this wasn't neccesary in N?
No. I have two 108s as well as four Dapol 156s and they run over all 24 electrofrog points on the layout without a problem, and I'd NEVER consider cutting the rails as you suggest :thumbsup:
Paul
My 101 is running over 1st-radius set-track points without issue. Admittedly not electrofrog, but the impression I get is that if set-track points work, anything should!
Have re-read this post but its late and I haven't had enough wine today however. Are the points fitted with insulated rail joiners at the frog or "exit ends" . Power should just be coming from the single track end or you will get a short circuit. Time for bed now...zzzzzzzzzz
Quote from: MattJ on July 22, 2012, 08:58:23 PM
Quote from: bluedepot on July 22, 2012, 11:34:14 AMthis problem is common to all my dmus.
I've got a 108... does this mean I will have to cut the rails between the frog and point blades, and connect them to the outside rails like is done on OO gauge? I thought this wasn't neccesary in N?
It isn't necessary in N.
i'm going to try and get a wider back to back gauge (7.54mm) and see if some wheel adjustments help....
it is very frustrating to hear that other people have no problems!!! yet i use large radius electrofrogs and have all this!!!
yes i do have insulated rail joiners in right places.
cheers
tim
Have you tried the stock on other people's layouts ?
Quote from: EtchedPixels on July 22, 2012, 11:00:47 PM
Have you tried the stock on other people's layouts ?
I did suggest that sometime back in the thread but he hasn't confirmed.
Also is it all the points (on the layout) or just a few. If there are some that are never an issue it would seem the train is mostly okay.
Is it only on particular point route settings?
Does it always short when running over the points?
Try and narrow down the circumstance it occurs.
H.
hi,
sorry, nope i've not tried them on other people's layouts.
it is worse on particular route settings, but there is a random element about it as well. sometimes it passses ok, other times it shorts out!
i will try some wheel widening to 7.54mm and see what effect that has. the gauge i was using was a nairnshire modelling one, and i read that this was actually 7.4mm... so a bit too narrow perhaps.
i'm in a better more positive mood today, because the sun is out!!! hahaha my n gauge is safe from ebay for now!!! hahaha
cheers
tim
hope it works!
not run on all routes yet but after wheel adjustments to the 108 and 150 they haven't short circuited yet.... and i ran them round the short loop routes about 15 times each (and a few times in the other direction on the wrong line)
first i did some over adustments and ended up with broad gauge... so then had to narrow them again...
anyway, here is a poor quality video!
cheers
tim
http://s782.photobucket.com/albums/yy103/bluedepot/my%20n%20gauge%20layout%20and%20models/?action=view¤t=SAM_0416.mp4 (http://s782.photobucket.com/albums/yy103/bluedepot/my%20n%20gauge%20layout%20and%20models/?action=view¤t=SAM_0416.mp4)
looks good ;D
Looking good, at last count I have four 101's and a new 108 (don't know why I collected so many!!), none of them short over any points so I would check how you have secured the points to the base board, my points are "floating" which probably saves distortion..
In fact the only loco I have trouble with is a class 31 which wobbles about like it's drunk, however I suspect this has a bent axle somewhere :)
:smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: Nice to see so many of us are in a rage, keep up the great work lads the Cardiologists and shrinks are making a fortune :thumbsup: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: swisstony on July 24, 2012, 08:25:11 AM
In fact the only loco I have trouble with is a class 31 which wobbles about like it's drunk, however I suspect this has a bent axle somewhere :)
That point 'wobble' is usually because a wheel drops in to the crossing gap (Peco points have huge flangeways) due to the BtB not being set correctly.
H.
Quote from: H on August 01, 2012, 12:00:05 PM
Quote from: swisstony on July 24, 2012, 08:25:11 AM
In fact the only loco I have trouble with is a class 31 which wobbles about like it's drunk, however I suspect this has a bent axle somewhere :)
That point 'wobble' is usually because a wheel drops in to the crossing gap (Peco points have huge flangeways) due to the BtB not being set correctly.
H.
Not point wobble H, wobble anywhere on the track :thumbsup:
Quote from: swisstony on August 01, 2012, 12:19:39 PM
Quote from: H on August 01, 2012, 12:00:05 PM
Quote from: swisstony on July 24, 2012, 08:25:11 AM
In fact the only loco I have trouble with is a class 31 which wobbles about like it's drunk, however I suspect this has a bent axle somewhere :)
That point 'wobble' is usually because a wheel drops in to the crossing gap (Peco points have huge flangeways) due to the BtB not being set correctly, but easy enough to sort out even if you have to replace the wheelset.
H.
Not point wobble H, wobble anywhere on the track
Then I doubt it's bent axle - more likely a non concentric wheel (damaged/lost tyre or collapsed bush) or a wheel is no longer square on the axle.
H.