N Gauge Forum

Dapol are asking for expressions of interest in Stanier non-toiler suburban stock. The choices are Third, Composite, Brake Third and Driving Brake Third (for push-pull operation).

Livery choices are LMS maroon, BR Crimson, BR Plain Maroon and BR Lined Maroon.

Please visit https://www.dapol.co.uk/pages/expression-of-interest-for-lms-suburban-coaches-project (https://www.dapol.co.uk/pages/expression-of-interest-for-lms-suburban-coaches-project) for more info and to express interest.

Can anyone help with a typical rake of these please ?

End of Steam period I'm interested in

Thanks

Craig

I couldn't see pricing, Adam.
Any clues?

Apologies - full details including price (£39.95) is here:

https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-lms-period-iii-57ft-non-lavatory-suburban-stock (https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-lms-period-iii-57ft-non-lavatory-suburban-stock)

Quote from: Dalek on December 09, 2025, 03:48:42 PMCan anyone help with a typical rake of these please ?

Suburbans marked in bold:
1964:
Windermere-Oxenhome BS C BCK BSK CK BSK (bold = suburban, others Mk1 heading to Euston)

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS C BS S BS C BS S (all suburbans, front BS C BS S from Southport to Blackpool Central, second set from Bolton to Blackpool North). Note brake vehicles not at end of train!

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS C BS S S S CK BSK (CK and BSK corridor stock for Fleetwood).

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS S CK BS BSK SK CK BSK (SK/CK/BSK all corridor to Barrow). Initial CK also coridor.

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS C BS BS C BS S CK BSK + 3x fish vans

We haven't seen decent/accurate suburban coaches (apart from Dapol's B-sets and the Mk1 suburbains from Farish) since the old generic ones produced by pre-China Grafar in all the liveries under the sun! They even used the non-corridor side moulding for the corridor/express coach versions! The only other difference was that the carriage ends had moulded corridor connections.
The driving brake 3rd is a complete RTR novelty, only previously model-able as a DIY conversion.

This really is great news...

However, as a BR(WR/SR) modeller, I'd like to put in a request for the excellent Maunsell High Window stock models to be re-issued in BR Stock Green...

Nonetheless, it is very good to have more non corridor stock available, or in the offing. As one correspondent has just put it, we've had to put up with that ancient 1970s/80s FICTIONAL non-gangwayed stock from Grafar, the quite old (but still very nice) Dapol WR B-Set, and of course, the Farish BR suburbans which seem to be not always available in either suitable types or liveries. I hope that the LMS/BR(LMR/ScR) modellers realise how fortunate they are.

Just a bit off topic (and there's probably already a thread?):
What do people think of Dapol's corridor connecting bellows on their Maunsell coaches?
How feasible would it be to produce their Gresley coaches with similar bellows? Collett coaches too?

A nice surprise! I've built most of these, but have signed up for some lined maroon ones - I'm not sure I can face doing lining transfers around all the door handles on mine. The driving brake third will go nicely with the Ivatt 2MT when it's re-released.

Neil

I could feasibly use these for the 'Newport Nobby' but then, how the heck do I get it into either of my layouts when it only ran between Wolverton and Newport Pagnell? :hmmm:

Quote from: Cols on December 09, 2025, 05:18:10 PMThis really is great news...

However, as a BR(WR/SR) modeller, I'd like to put in a request for the excellent Maunsell High Window stock models to be re-issued in BR Stock Green...

Nonetheless, it is very good to have more non corridor stock available, or in the offing. As one correspondent has just put it, we've had to put up with that ancient 1970s/80s FICTIONAL non-gangwayed stock from Grafar, the quite old (but still very nice) Dapol WR B-Set, and of course, the Farish BR suburbans which seem to be not always available in either suitable types or liveries. I hope that the LMS/BR(LMR/ScR) modellers realise how fortunate they are.

Nothing certain but we are looking at a possible run of the high-window Maunsells in (correct) BR(S) Green. Don't tell anyone I said this :-)

Adding the Maunsell-style bellows to the Gresleys would require expensive retooling of the roof, chassis and ends, which we can't justify under current conditions.

Quote from: Newportnobby on December 09, 2025, 07:02:56 PMI could feasibly use these for the 'Newport Nobby' but then, how the heck do I get it into either of my layouts when it only ran between Wolverton and Newport Pagnell? :hmmm:

Rule 1 is always your friend Mick!

Really positive step from Dapol, they look really nice as well.

Yes, very tasty. :thumbsup:

Quote from: Roy L S on December 09, 2025, 08:31:28 PM

Quote from: Newportnobby on December 09, 2025, 07:02:56 PMI could feasibly use these for the 'Newport Nobby' but then, how the heck do I get it into either of my layouts when it only ran between Wolverton and Newport Pagnell? :hmmm:

Rule 1 is always your friend Mick!

Way too much of a stretch, Roy, unless they could have appeared on the Varsity Line in the late 50s/early 60s

Quote from: Newportnobby on December 09, 2025, 10:08:50 PM

Quote from: Roy L S on December 09, 2025, 08:31:28 PM

Quote from: Newportnobby on December 09, 2025, 07:02:56 PMI could feasibly use these for the 'Newport Nobby' but then, how the heck do I get it into either of my layouts when it only ran between Wolverton and Newport Pagnell? :hmmm:

Rule 1 is always your friend Mick!

Way too much of a stretch, Roy, unless they could have appeared on the Varsity Line in the late 50s/early 60s

Buckingham Branch maybe? I seem to recall it was DMU from Verney Junction to Buckingham but a separate steam service from there to Banbury until that section closed to passengers, still a stretch true, but...

Excellent choice - accurate non-corridor stock in general has been a big obvious gap for a long time! :claphappy:
Just to note though, the LMS didn't refer to these as "Suburban" coaches (except for the non-standard dedicated North London sets) - the official description was "General Service Non-Corridor Stock", and they certainly weren't confined to suburban service - they could be seen all over the LMS system, including many rural branch lines.

The ones described as "Composite (Push-Pull)" from the running numbers look to be Diag 1921A motor-fitted intermediate coaches. i.e. have the through pipework and electrical connections to go between the Loco and a Driving Brake-Third, and are NOT a Push-Pull train in themselves...

The Ivatt 2MT is ideal power for the Push-Pull sets post-war, but there is currently a lack of a suitable loco for pre-war though... they mostly worked with older pre-grouping locos such as various Midland 0-4-4Ts, L&Y 2-4-2Ts and LNWR Coal Tanks (unless Dapol have something suitable up their sleeves ;) )

I'm definitely in for a set to represent the only Named Push-Pull train - the 1950s "Welsh Dragon" formed of a Driving-brake 3rd + 2x Motor-fitted Composite + Ivatt 2MT.
Maybe an LMS Push-Pull pair and another 3/4 coach set as well.

I used a Jinty on push-pull, as used in South Wales, I think.

Photos within James Street thread.

That's another case of manufacturers catching up with my kit bashing or reworking of  RTR.

Martyn

Currently building an Ongar Gresley push pull set....

Quote from: martyn on December 10, 2025, 08:17:28 AMThat's another case of manufacturers catching up with my kit bashing or reworking of  RTR.
Martyn

Please knock up a 'Falcon' asap, please, Martyn ;D  ;)

OK, I'll break cover for a change.  ;)

I'm so happy to see these finally get revealed to the public - a lot of work went into getting these as correct as possible.

Please remember, this project can only happen if enough people express and interest in purchasing some when they are ready. Please do continue to express your interest here (an expression of interest is not an obligation to buy at this stage of the project):

https://www.dapol.co.uk/pages/expression-of-interest-for-lms-suburban-coaches-project

For full details of the coaches we plan to produce please visit:

https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-lms-period-iii-57ft-non-lavatory-suburban-stock

Note: As PLD noted yesterday, the "push-pull" composite is numbered to be a complementing coach for the Driving Brake Third in each of the liveries.

Aw, get em anyway.

Quote from: martyn on December 10, 2025, 08:17:28 AMI used a Jinty on push-pull, as used in South Wales, I think.

There were indeed a total of 7 Jinties (max 6 at the same time) Push-pull fitted, but not until c1950 so as with the Ivatt suitable for post-war only.

Quote from: Stevie DC on December 10, 2025, 08:34:52 AMOK, I'll break cover for a change.  ;)

I'm so happy to see these finally get revealed to the public - a lot of work went into getting these as correct as possible.

Please remember, this project can only happen if enough people express and interest in purchasing some when they are ready. Please do continue to express your interest here (an expression of interest is not an obligation to buy at this stage of the project):

https://www.dapol.co.uk/pages/expression-of-interest-for-lms-suburban-coaches-project

For full details of the coaches we plan to produce please visit:

https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-lms-period-iii-57ft-non-lavatory-suburban-stock

Note: As PLD noted yesterday, the "push-pull" composite is numbered to be a complementing coach for the Driving Brake Third in each of the liveries.

The hell this man put me through getting the LMS lettering just right will be totally worth it in the end!  :D  :D  :D

Quote from: Adam1701D on December 10, 2025, 09:18:23 AMThe hell this man put me through getting the LMS lettering just right will be totally worth it in the end!  :D  :D  :D

And... I would do it to you again, without hesitation!!!!!  >:D  >:D  >:D 

Quote from: Adam1701D on December 10, 2025, 09:18:23 AMThe hell this man put me through getting the LMS lettering just right will be totally worth it in the end!  :D  :D  :D

Thank you both from me!!  :thumbsup:

Although I built myself a push pull set out of old farish suburbans I have already put in for 6 so far, it is about time that pre BR suburban coaches become RTR. I know that the Dapol Bsets are still available and I have several, but this is a splendid development

Regards,

Alex

Quote from: Newportnobby on December 10, 2025, 08:34:01 AM

Quote from: martyn on December 10, 2025, 08:17:28 AMThat's another case of manufacturers catching up with my kit bashing or reworking of  RTR.
Martyn

Please knock up a 'Falcon' asap, please, Martyn ;D  ;)

Well, it did work Norwich-Liverpool St briefy....

Martyn

I always used to go on the Comet Models website for information about LMS train formations but it seems that their site no longer exists ?

Try Wizard Models, Joe

Thanks Mick. I looked at the Wizard Models site but although they sell the Comet kits the catalogue with all the gen is not there  :(

Concerning discussions about suitable motive power, so far this has been mainly about steam traction but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that rakes of 5 or 6 of thes coaches were hauled by type 2 diesels in early BR days ?

Quote from: joe cassidy on December 10, 2025, 01:34:33 PMThanks Mick. I looked at the Wizard Models site but although they sell the Comet kits the catalogue with all the gen is not there  :(

Instructions for the individual kits do still list sample formations and dates though.

Neil

I Googled Wizard Models Comet and it took me straight there. This is the first LMS coach I came to and the pdf shows a typical formation:

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/m25.pdf

From the Comet/Wizard models instructions:

BT/T (with van inboard)
BT/C/BT
BT/C/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/BT
BT/C/BT/BT/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/T/BT

No mention of locations or dates.

Been waiting for push-pull sets for years!. Just a pity the new tooled Ivatt tank has no push-pull option! (Will the old dapol Ivatt body fit the new tooled version?).

Chris

Quote from: kesdrive on December 10, 2025, 05:59:46 PMBeen waiting for push-pull sets for years!. Just a pity the new tooled Ivatt tank has no push-pull option! (Will the old dapol Ivatt body fit the new tooled version?).

Chris

There's the old Minitrix one?

There's the old Minitrix one?
[/quote]

I have the dc Ivatt tank but don't know if body will fit dcc chassis.

Chris

Quote from: kesdrive on December 10, 2025, 05:59:46 PMBeen waiting for push-pull sets for years!. Just a pity the new tooled Ivatt tank has no push-pull option! (Will the old dapol Ivatt body fit the new tooled version?).

Chris

The "British Railways" version is supposed to have the push-pull apparatus fitted. Just that the livery samples all used the standard body.

Bob G

Hi @Adam1701D , @Stevie DC
A possible anomaly in the chosen running numbers: if my references (incl the David Jenkinson book) are correct, 2P-010-307 BR Lined Maroon Brake Third - M20577M was a Period 2 Diag 1735... All the other BT number choices are P3 Diag 1907s.

Happy to be corrected if you have information otherwise...

Quote from: PLD on December 10, 2025, 08:41:17 PMHi @Adam1701D , @Stevie DC
A possible anomaly in the chosen running numbers: if my references (incl the David Jenkinson book) are correct, 2P-010-307 BR Lined Maroon Brake Third - M20577M was a Period 2 Diag 1735... All the other BT number choices are P3 Diag 1907s.

Happy to be corrected if you have information otherwise...

Thanks PLD, I'll dig out my reference books tomorrow morning (just moved and everything is still boxed up) and double check this for you.  :)

Quote from: Bob G on December 10, 2025, 08:12:43 PM

Quote from: kesdrive on December 10, 2025, 05:59:46 PMBeen waiting for push-pull sets for years!. Just a pity the new tooled Ivatt tank has no push-pull option! (Will the old dapol Ivatt body fit the new tooled version?).

Chris

The "British Railways" version is supposed to have the push-pull apparatus fitted. Just that the livery samples all used the standard body.

Bob G

Thanks Bob

Quote from: PLD on December 10, 2025, 08:41:17 PMHi @Adam1701D , @Stevie DC
A possible anomaly in the chosen running numbers: if my references (incl the David Jenkinson book) are correct, 2P-010-307 BR Lined Maroon Brake Third - M20577M was a Period 2 Diag 1735... All the other BT number choices are P3 Diag 1907s.

Happy to be corrected if you have information otherwise...

He's right folks. That's embarrassing...  :-[

20577 should be 20757, we'll get that corrected.

Quote from: Steven B on December 09, 2025, 04:19:02 PM

Quote from: Dalek on December 09, 2025, 03:48:42 PMCan anyone help with a typical rake of these please ?

Suburbans marked in bold:
1964:
Windermere-Oxenhome BS C BCK BSK CK BSK (bold = suburban, others Mk1 heading to Euston)

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS C BS S BS C BS S (all suburbans, front BS C BS S from Southport to Blackpool Central, second set from Bolton to Blackpool North). Note brake vehicles not at end of train!

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS C BS S S S CK BSK (CK and BSK corridor stock for Fleetwood).

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS S CK BS BSK SK CK BSK (SK/CK/BSK all corridor to Barrow). Initial CK also coridor.

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS C BS BS C BS S CK BSK + 3x fish vans

Quote from: Steven B on December 10, 2025, 04:02:59 PMFrom the Comet/Wizard models instructions:

BT/T (with van inboard)
BT/C/BT
BT/C/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/BT
BT/C/BT/BT/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/T/BT

No mention of locations or dates.

Thanks both  :thumbsup:

Well done Dapol  :claphappy:

Craig

So this Driving Brake Third, any examples of what would be on the other end?
Steam only?, i seen a mention of a motor on it on this thread?

I've only really came across the auto coach and pannier before.

Craig

Quote from: Dalek on December 11, 2025, 04:25:32 PMSo this Driving Brake Third, any examples of what would be on the other end?
Steam only?, i seen a mention of a motor on it on this thread?

I've only really came across the auto coach and pannier before.

Craig

As per earlier in the thread: in Push-pull operation a steam loco fitted with appropriate Vacuum control gear. Pre 1948, mainly an assortment of pre-grouping design tank locos (currently nothing available RTR). Post-war the Ivatt 2MT tank is common and a small batch of Jinties confined to South Wales.
Not compatible with locos of any other region: GW used a mechanical linkage, NE was a different air pressure system. SR  technically matching but IIRC, hoses wouldn't connect.
Could of course be used as ordinary coaching stock with any loco with compatible Vac Brakes...

The carriage was not fitted with a motor (not self propelled) - the term "motor train" was one of several descriptions applied to the formation as a whole of Loco+intermediate coaches (with necessary pipework)+Driving/Control coach.

Hi all

Maybe there is scope for one of the 3D printers to produce a resin body for the Stanier 0-4-4T to fit the Dapol M7 chassis, I know its been done in 4mm scale.

Ian

Quote from: PLD on December 11, 2025, 04:44:43 PM

Quote from: Dalek on December 11, 2025, 04:25:32 PMSo this Driving Brake Third, any examples of what would be on the other end?
Steam only?, i seen a mention of a motor on it on this thread?

I've only really came across the auto coach and pannier before.

Craig

As per earlier in the thread: in Push-pull operation a steam loco fitted with appropriate Vacuum control gear. Pre 1948, mainly an assortment of pre-grouping design tank locos (currently nothing available RTR). Post-war the Ivatt 2MT tank is common and a small batch of Jinties confined to South Wales.
Not compatible with locos of any other region: GW used a mechanical linkage, NE was a different air pressure system. SR  technically matching but IIRC, hoses wouldn't connect.
Could of course be used as ordinary coaching stock with any loco with compatible Vac Brakes...

The carriage was not fitted with a motor (not self propelled) - the term "motor train" was one of several descriptions applied to the formation as a whole of Loco+intermediate coaches (with necessary pipework)+Driving/Control coach.

Thanks for the explanation  :thumbsup:

Craig

Really looking forward to purchasing these models.

In my teens I made a model of the driving brake third based on a GRAFAR suburban coach following inspiration by an article in Railway Modeller (May 1977, page 144). Unfortunately it got lost along the way, somewhere in all the moves of the last nearly 50 years since its creation. As such I had, only fairly recently, purchased upon Fleabay a sacrificial suburban with an intent to carry out a similar act of butchery ( with apologies for such a sacriligous act to SPAM, to be passed on via John @Train Waiting ). Now it seems that that example of the classic Poole suburban will be saved from the knife, thanks to @Stevie DC and all at Dapol for providing the new DBT,

Cheers,

Colin.     

Quote from: Steven B on December 10, 2025, 04:02:59 PMFrom the Comet/Wizard models instructions:

BT/T (with van inboard)
BT/C/BT
BT/C/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/BT
BT/C/BT/BT/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/T/BT

No mention of locations or dates.

For a push pull train there would be a DBT and a push pull fitted comp; but could there be an all third and a BT as well or would they too have to be push pull fitted (there is no mention of that in Dapol's list)? Otherwise it'd be just a 2 coach train.

Quote from: cmason on December 12, 2025, 04:04:37 AMNow it seems that that example of the classic Poole suburban will be saved from the knife, thanks to @Stevie DC and all at Dapol for providing the new DBT,

Phew! The ProperlyPoole carriage has been spared. Sounds like it was a close-run thing, though.

With all good wishes.

John

Quote from: madchadbrad on December 12, 2025, 09:31:58 AM

Quote from: Steven B on December 10, 2025, 04:02:59 PMFrom the Comet/Wizard models instructions:

BT/T (with van inboard)
BT/C/BT
BT/C/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/BT
BT/C/BT/BT/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/T/BT

No mention of locations or dates.

For a push pull train there would be a DBT and a push pull fitted comp; but could there be an all third and a BT as well or would they too have to be push pull fitted (there is no mention of that in Dapol's list)? Otherwise it'd be just a 2 coach train.

I will bow to others with greater knowledge, but it was my understanding that a push-pull set would typically be restricted to two coaches due to limitations of the control linkages between loco and coaches.

Quote from: cmason on December 12, 2025, 04:04:37 AMReally looking forward to purchasing these models.

In my teens I made a model of the driving brake third based on a GRAFAR suburban coach following inspiration by an article in Railway Modeller (May 1977, page 144). Unfortunately it got lost along the way, somewhere in all the moves of the last nearly 50 years since its creation. As such I had, only fairly recently, purchased upon Fleabay a sacrificial suburban with an intent to carry out a similar act of butchery ( with apologies for such a sacriligous act to SPAM, to be passed on via John @Train Waiting ). Now it seems that that example of the classic Poole suburban will be saved from the knife, thanks to @Stevie DC and all at Dapol for providing the new DBT,

Cheers,

Colin. 

Well i found just such a thing on Ebay and to add insult to Injury lifted the white metal end and grafted it ( pretty well by my standards) onto a contemporary Farish Suburban brake... Since then i have discovered offerings from Isinglass (lner) and now this... ( if it comes to pass). 

There's a brief overview of (ex)LMS Pull and Push trains here:
https://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/Push%20Pull%20YTT.html

I've yet to find any photos of Pull and Push trains with more than three carriages, which given that the system was vacuum based would suggest that's the physical limit of the system (just like the GWR was limited to two vehicles because of the mechanical linkage).

Pulled trains could be longer, whilst its possible that pushed trains could have additional vans added behind the loco.

One coach:
Southwell, 1959: https://flic.kr/p/zF9TZU

Two coaches:
Coniston 1958: https://flic.kr/p/o3c6J6
Northampton 1959: https://flic.kr/p/AtBPpS
Holcombe 1959: https://flic.kr/p/guKk3E

Three coaches:
Deganwy, 1955: https://flic.kr/p/GJY3vB

Quote from: madchadbrad on December 12, 2025, 09:31:58 AMFor a push pull train there would be a DBT and a push pull fitted comp; but could there be an all third and a BT as well or would they too have to be push pull fitted (there is no mention of that in Dapol's list)? Otherwise it'd be just a 2 coach train.

For Push-Pull operation, there would be a Loco at one end of the set and a Driving Control coach at the other end (driving end outwards of course).

In between could be any number of coaches provided they were all "motor fitted" - that means they have the through pipework and electrical connections to connect the Loco to the driving coach. The LMS had fitted Composites and 3rds, though Dapol's initial list only includes fitted Comps.

Theoretically any number of intermediate vehicles could be included, unlike the GW mechanical system where slop in the linkages limited it to one intermediate vehicle. The practical limitation is in the power of the loco (mostly Tanks of power class 1&2) and formations of more than 3 coaches were uncommon, with 2 coaches probably being most common. On the LMS it was very rare (but not totally unknown) for the loco to be in the middle between 2 driving trailers.

Most common formations from photo evidence would seem to be:

• Loco - Composite - Driving Brake Third
• Loco - Third - Driving Brake Third
• Loco - Driving Brake Third
• Loco - Third - Composite - Driving Brake Third
• Loco - Composite - Composite - Driving Brake Third
• Loco - Third - Third - Driving Brake Third
• Loco - Third - Third - Composite - Driving Brake Third

Are these the coaches?
https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrk152.htm

Quote from: leachsprite4 on December 12, 2025, 11:04:46 AMAre these the coaches?
https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrk152.htm

No - the planned Dapol models are Period 3 style coaches.
The pair closed to the Camera are ex-LNWR vehicles, and the far end driving trailer is either a P1 type or ex-LNWR. The intermediate coach at the far end not 100% sure but looks like a period 2 Lav-Composite.

Quote from: Steven B on December 12, 2025, 10:59:50 AMOne coach:
Southwell, 1959: https://flic.kr/p/zF9TZU

Two coaches:
Coniston 1958: https://flic.kr/p/o3c6J6
Northampton 1959: https://flic.kr/p/AtBPpS
Holcombe 1959: https://flic.kr/p/guKk3E

Three coaches:
Deganwy, 1955: https://flic.kr/p/GJY3vB

The Welsh Dragon in the Deganwy photo is the definite for me, 1x DBT+2x Comp doable from the range offered, just need to renumber one of the comps.

[Note the Northampton shot is Period 2 stock.]

Quote from: Steven B on December 12, 2025, 10:59:50 AMTwo coaches:
Coniston 1958: https://flic.kr/p/o3c6J6

The Coniston motor train looked better pre-war, with an Aspinall Radial at one end  :D

Any evidence that a "non-driving" BT might have been through fitted for push-pull?

Quote from: madchadbrad on December 12, 2025, 08:06:57 PMAny evidence that a "non-driving" BT might have been through fitted for push-pull?

Certainly none built motor fitted, and none listed in the known conversions.
I can't see there would be a need for non-driving brakes - The driving trailers were all brakes, and they weren't intended for routes with high demand for luggage space needing a second van in a two/coach train.

Quote from: Steven B on December 12, 2025, 10:59:50 AMI've yet to find any photos of Pull and Push trains with more than three carriages, which given that the system was vacuum based would suggest that's the physical limit of the system (just like the GWR was limited to two vehicles because of the mechanical linkage).

The GWR was limited to four coaches not two as you could run the mechanical linkages in both directions. That was a standard configuration for some of the Plymouth suburban services.

Not sure how "loco in the middle" worked for the LMS system or if it was even possible.

Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 13, 2025, 02:42:24 PMNot sure how "loco in the middle" worked for the LMS system or if it was even possible.

It could be done but was rare.
As I understand it, change over from driving at one trailer to the other involved simply closing one valve and opening another. From what I've read elsewhere didn't the GWR system mean disconnecting one linkage and connecting the other??

Quote from: PLD on December 13, 2025, 06:04:43 PM

Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 13, 2025, 02:42:24 PMNot sure how "loco in the middle" worked for the LMS system or if it was even possible.

It could be done but was rare.
As I understand it, change over from driving at one trailer to the other involved simply closing one valve and opening another. From what I've read elsewhere didn't the GWR system mean disconnecting one linkage and connecting the other??

I believe so.

Alan

Quote from: PLD on December 12, 2025, 09:55:48 PM

Quote from: madchadbrad on December 12, 2025, 08:06:57 PMAny evidence that a "non-driving" BT might have been through fitted for push-pull?

Certainly none built motor fitted, and none listed in the known conversions.
I can't see there would be a need for non-driving brakes - The driving trailers were all brakes, and they weren't intended for routes with high demand for luggage space needing a second van in a two/coach train.

Thanks! I asked because I was thinking of expressing interest in an example of each coach type so: BT, 3rd, fitted comp, DBT. I could run them as a standard 4 coach loco fwd train and then discard the BT & 3rd if using them as a push pull set. For my locos that are suitable they would be BR lined maroon; I don't have any pre-nationalisation locos that would fit.

I just tried to express my interest in some BR lined maroon versions but cannot get their system to register any number other than "0" for the DBT 2P-010-404. All the other ones I selected had a pull down menu for the quantity but not that one!
Anyone else had a problem?

Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 13, 2025, 06:05:31 PM

Quote from: PLD on December 13, 2025, 06:04:43 PM

Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 13, 2025, 02:42:24 PMNot sure how "loco in the middle" worked for the LMS system or if it was even possible.

It could be done but was rare.
As I understand it, change over from driving at one trailer to the other involved simply closing one valve and opening another. From what I've read elsewhere didn't the GWR system mean disconnecting one linkage and connecting the other??

I believe so.

Alan

the mechanical system employed by the GWR had one connection for each end and had to be connected/disconnected manually and only one end at a time - I did that as a fireman at Didcot railway centre back in the 80s

Regards,

Alex

Quote from: madchadbrad on December 17, 2025, 01:27:59 PMI just tried to express my interest in some BR lined maroon versions but cannot get their system to register any number other than "0" for the DBT 2P-010-404. All the other ones I selected had a pull down menu for the quantity but not that one!
Anyone else had a problem?

Hi, I've just tried this on my computer and didn't find any issue with the drop down menu. Could you try again please?

If you keep experiencing the same issue, let me know and I'll raise this with the marketing team to see if it is an occasional glitch.

Many thanks.

Quote from: Stevie DC on December 18, 2025, 04:38:18 PM

Quote from: madchadbrad on December 17, 2025, 01:27:59 PMI just tried to express my interest in some BR lined maroon versions but cannot get their system to register any number other than "0" for the DBT 2P-010-404. All the other ones I selected had a pull down menu for the quantity but not that one!
Anyone else had a problem?

Hi, I've just tried this on my computer and didn't find any issue with the drop down menu. Could you try again please?

If you keep experiencing the same issue, let me know and I'll raise this with the marketing team to see if it is an occasional glitch.

Many thanks.

I just tried again on my laptop, rather than my iPad, and it finally worked OK.
I had sent Dapol a message about it and they said it had been a problem on mobile phones and they thought had been fixed but they would check it again.
Maybe it had been fixed or maybe it was my iPad!
All sorted now anyway.

It would be great if the system sent you an email with a list of items you selected.

Craig

We've just posted our first update about this project on Facebook. We currently have just over half the number of expressions of interest we need to progress to the tooling phase.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1276581994486005&set=a.454526186691594

Please remember that there is no obligation to buy at this stage. We are simply ascertaining if there is sufficient interest in these coaches to progress to the tooling and prototype stage.

Latest update: over halfway to the target number of expressions of interest!
https://tinyurl.com/5x8twbhy

At 65% there's still quite a way to go :worried:

4 weeks since the last update on the Dapol website. Are we any further along, please?