N Gauge Forum

Dapol are asking for expressions of interest in Stanier non-toiler suburban stock. The choices are Third, Composite, Brake Third and Driving Brake Third (for push-pull operation).

Livery choices are LMS maroon, BR Crimson, BR Plain Maroon and BR Lined Maroon.

Please visit https://www.dapol.co.uk/pages/expression-of-interest-for-lms-suburban-coaches-project (https://www.dapol.co.uk/pages/expression-of-interest-for-lms-suburban-coaches-project) for more info and to express interest.

Can anyone help with a typical rake of these please ?

End of Steam period I'm interested in

Thanks

Craig

I couldn't see pricing, Adam.
Any clues?

Apologies - full details including price (£39.95) is here:

https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-lms-period-iii-57ft-non-lavatory-suburban-stock (https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-lms-period-iii-57ft-non-lavatory-suburban-stock)

Quote from: Dalek on December 09, 2025, 03:48:42 PMCan anyone help with a typical rake of these please ?

Suburbans marked in bold:
1964:
Windermere-Oxenhome BS C BCK BSK CK BSK (bold = suburban, others Mk1 heading to Euston)

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS C BS S BS C BS S (all suburbans, front BS C BS S from Southport to Blackpool Central, second set from Bolton to Blackpool North). Note brake vehicles not at end of train!

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS C BS S S S CK BSK (CK and BSK corridor stock for Fleetwood).

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS S CK BS BSK SK CK BSK (SK/CK/BSK all corridor to Barrow). Initial CK also coridor.

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS C BS BS C BS S CK BSK + 3x fish vans

We haven't seen decent/accurate suburban coaches (apart from Dapol's B-sets and the Mk1 suburbains from Farish) since the old generic ones produced by pre-China Grafar in all the liveries under the sun! They even used the non-corridor side moulding for the corridor/express coach versions! The only other difference was that the carriage ends had moulded corridor connections.
The driving brake 3rd is a complete RTR novelty, only previously model-able as a DIY conversion.

This really is great news...

However, as a BR(WR/SR) modeller, I'd like to put in a request for the excellent Maunsell High Window stock models to be re-issued in BR Stock Green...

Nonetheless, it is very good to have more non corridor stock available, or in the offing. As one correspondent has just put it, we've had to put up with that ancient 1970s/80s FICTIONAL non-gangwayed stock from Grafar, the quite old (but still very nice) Dapol WR B-Set, and of course, the Farish BR suburbans which seem to be not always available in either suitable types or liveries. I hope that the LMS/BR(LMR/ScR) modellers realise how fortunate they are.

Just a bit off topic (and there's probably already a thread?):
What do people think of Dapol's corridor connecting bellows on their Maunsell coaches?
How feasible would it be to produce their Gresley coaches with similar bellows? Collett coaches too?

A nice surprise! I've built most of these, but have signed up for some lined maroon ones - I'm not sure I can face doing lining transfers around all the door handles on mine. The driving brake third will go nicely with the Ivatt 2MT when it's re-released.

Neil

I could feasibly use these for the 'Newport Nobby' but then, how the heck do I get it into either of my layouts when it only ran between Wolverton and Newport Pagnell? :hmmm:

Quote from: Cols on December 09, 2025, 05:18:10 PMThis really is great news...

However, as a BR(WR/SR) modeller, I'd like to put in a request for the excellent Maunsell High Window stock models to be re-issued in BR Stock Green...

Nonetheless, it is very good to have more non corridor stock available, or in the offing. As one correspondent has just put it, we've had to put up with that ancient 1970s/80s FICTIONAL non-gangwayed stock from Grafar, the quite old (but still very nice) Dapol WR B-Set, and of course, the Farish BR suburbans which seem to be not always available in either suitable types or liveries. I hope that the LMS/BR(LMR/ScR) modellers realise how fortunate they are.

Nothing certain but we are looking at a possible run of the high-window Maunsells in (correct) BR(S) Green. Don't tell anyone I said this :-)

Adding the Maunsell-style bellows to the Gresleys would require expensive retooling of the roof, chassis and ends, which we can't justify under current conditions.

Quote from: Newportnobby on December 09, 2025, 07:02:56 PMI could feasibly use these for the 'Newport Nobby' but then, how the heck do I get it into either of my layouts when it only ran between Wolverton and Newport Pagnell? :hmmm:

Rule 1 is always your friend Mick!

Really positive step from Dapol, they look really nice as well.

Yes, very tasty. :thumbsup:

Quote from: Roy L S on December 09, 2025, 08:31:28 PM

Quote from: Newportnobby on December 09, 2025, 07:02:56 PMI could feasibly use these for the 'Newport Nobby' but then, how the heck do I get it into either of my layouts when it only ran between Wolverton and Newport Pagnell? :hmmm:

Rule 1 is always your friend Mick!

Way too much of a stretch, Roy, unless they could have appeared on the Varsity Line in the late 50s/early 60s

Quote from: Newportnobby on December 09, 2025, 10:08:50 PM

Quote from: Roy L S on December 09, 2025, 08:31:28 PM

Quote from: Newportnobby on December 09, 2025, 07:02:56 PMI could feasibly use these for the 'Newport Nobby' but then, how the heck do I get it into either of my layouts when it only ran between Wolverton and Newport Pagnell? :hmmm:

Rule 1 is always your friend Mick!

Way too much of a stretch, Roy, unless they could have appeared on the Varsity Line in the late 50s/early 60s

Buckingham Branch maybe? I seem to recall it was DMU from Verney Junction to Buckingham but a separate steam service from there to Banbury until that section closed to passengers, still a stretch true, but...

Excellent choice - accurate non-corridor stock in general has been a big obvious gap for a long time! :claphappy:
Just to note though, the LMS didn't refer to these as "Suburban" coaches (except for the non-standard dedicated North London sets) - the official description was "General Service Non-Corridor Stock", and they certainly weren't confined to suburban service - they could be seen all over the LMS system, including many rural branch lines.

The ones described as "Composite (Push-Pull)" from the running numbers look to be Diag 1921A motor-fitted intermediate coaches. i.e. have the through pipework and electrical connections to go between the Loco and a Driving Brake-Third, and are NOT a Push-Pull train in themselves...

The Ivatt 2MT is ideal power for the Push-Pull sets post-war, but there is currently a lack of a suitable loco for pre-war though... they mostly worked with older pre-grouping locos such as various Midland 0-4-4Ts, L&Y 2-4-2Ts and LNWR Coal Tanks (unless Dapol have something suitable up their sleeves ;) )

I'm definitely in for a set to represent the only Named Push-Pull train - the 1950s "Welsh Dragon" formed of a Driving-brake 3rd + 2x Motor-fitted Composite + Ivatt 2MT.
Maybe an LMS Push-Pull pair and another 3/4 coach set as well.

I used a Jinty on push-pull, as used in South Wales, I think.

Photos within James Street thread.

That's another case of manufacturers catching up with my kit bashing or reworking of  RTR.

Martyn

Currently building an Ongar Gresley push pull set....

Quote from: martyn on December 10, 2025, 08:17:28 AMThat's another case of manufacturers catching up with my kit bashing or reworking of  RTR.
Martyn

Please knock up a 'Falcon' asap, please, Martyn ;D  ;)

OK, I'll break cover for a change.  ;)

I'm so happy to see these finally get revealed to the public - a lot of work went into getting these as correct as possible.

Please remember, this project can only happen if enough people express and interest in purchasing some when they are ready. Please do continue to express your interest here (an expression of interest is not an obligation to buy at this stage of the project):

https://www.dapol.co.uk/pages/expression-of-interest-for-lms-suburban-coaches-project

For full details of the coaches we plan to produce please visit:

https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-lms-period-iii-57ft-non-lavatory-suburban-stock

Note: As PLD noted yesterday, the "push-pull" composite is numbered to be a complementing coach for the Driving Brake Third in each of the liveries.

Aw, get em anyway.

Quote from: martyn on December 10, 2025, 08:17:28 AMI used a Jinty on push-pull, as used in South Wales, I think.

There were indeed a total of 7 Jinties (max 6 at the same time) Push-pull fitted, but not until c1950 so as with the Ivatt suitable for post-war only.

Quote from: Stevie DC on December 10, 2025, 08:34:52 AMOK, I'll break cover for a change.  ;)

I'm so happy to see these finally get revealed to the public - a lot of work went into getting these as correct as possible.

Please remember, this project can only happen if enough people express and interest in purchasing some when they are ready. Please do continue to express your interest here (an expression of interest is not an obligation to buy at this stage of the project):

https://www.dapol.co.uk/pages/expression-of-interest-for-lms-suburban-coaches-project

For full details of the coaches we plan to produce please visit:

https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-lms-period-iii-57ft-non-lavatory-suburban-stock

Note: As PLD noted yesterday, the "push-pull" composite is numbered to be a complementing coach for the Driving Brake Third in each of the liveries.

The hell this man put me through getting the LMS lettering just right will be totally worth it in the end!  :D  :D  :D

Quote from: Adam1701D on December 10, 2025, 09:18:23 AMThe hell this man put me through getting the LMS lettering just right will be totally worth it in the end!  :D  :D  :D

And... I would do it to you again, without hesitation!!!!!  >:D  >:D  >:D 

Quote from: Adam1701D on December 10, 2025, 09:18:23 AMThe hell this man put me through getting the LMS lettering just right will be totally worth it in the end!  :D  :D  :D

Thank you both from me!!  :thumbsup:

Although I built myself a push pull set out of old farish suburbans I have already put in for 6 so far, it is about time that pre BR suburban coaches become RTR. I know that the Dapol Bsets are still available and I have several, but this is a splendid development

Regards,

Alex

Quote from: Newportnobby on December 10, 2025, 08:34:01 AM

Quote from: martyn on December 10, 2025, 08:17:28 AMThat's another case of manufacturers catching up with my kit bashing or reworking of  RTR.
Martyn

Please knock up a 'Falcon' asap, please, Martyn ;D  ;)

Well, it did work Norwich-Liverpool St briefy....

Martyn

I always used to go on the Comet Models website for information about LMS train formations but it seems that their site no longer exists ?

Try Wizard Models, Joe

Thanks Mick. I looked at the Wizard Models site but although they sell the Comet kits the catalogue with all the gen is not there  :(

Concerning discussions about suitable motive power, so far this has been mainly about steam traction but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that rakes of 5 or 6 of thes coaches were hauled by type 2 diesels in early BR days ?

Quote from: joe cassidy on December 10, 2025, 01:34:33 PMThanks Mick. I looked at the Wizard Models site but although they sell the Comet kits the catalogue with all the gen is not there  :(

Instructions for the individual kits do still list sample formations and dates though.

Neil

I Googled Wizard Models Comet and it took me straight there. This is the first LMS coach I came to and the pdf shows a typical formation:

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/m25.pdf

From the Comet/Wizard models instructions:

BT/T (with van inboard)
BT/C/BT
BT/C/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/BT
BT/C/BT/BT/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/T/BT

No mention of locations or dates.

Been waiting for push-pull sets for years!. Just a pity the new tooled Ivatt tank has no push-pull option! (Will the old dapol Ivatt body fit the new tooled version?).

Chris

Quote from: kesdrive on December 10, 2025, 05:59:46 PMBeen waiting for push-pull sets for years!. Just a pity the new tooled Ivatt tank has no push-pull option! (Will the old dapol Ivatt body fit the new tooled version?).

Chris

There's the old Minitrix one?

There's the old Minitrix one?
[/quote]

I have the dc Ivatt tank but don't know if body will fit dcc chassis.

Chris

Quote from: kesdrive on December 10, 2025, 05:59:46 PMBeen waiting for push-pull sets for years!. Just a pity the new tooled Ivatt tank has no push-pull option! (Will the old dapol Ivatt body fit the new tooled version?).

Chris

The "British Railways" version is supposed to have the push-pull apparatus fitted. Just that the livery samples all used the standard body.

Bob G

Hi @Adam1701D , @Stevie DC
A possible anomaly in the chosen running numbers: if my references (incl the David Jenkinson book) are correct, 2P-010-307 BR Lined Maroon Brake Third - M20577M was a Period 2 Diag 1735... All the other BT number choices are P3 Diag 1907s.

Happy to be corrected if you have information otherwise...

Quote from: PLD on December 10, 2025, 08:41:17 PMHi @Adam1701D , @Stevie DC
A possible anomaly in the chosen running numbers: if my references (incl the David Jenkinson book) are correct, 2P-010-307 BR Lined Maroon Brake Third - M20577M was a Period 2 Diag 1735... All the other BT number choices are P3 Diag 1907s.

Happy to be corrected if you have information otherwise...

Thanks PLD, I'll dig out my reference books tomorrow morning (just moved and everything is still boxed up) and double check this for you.  :)

Quote from: Bob G on December 10, 2025, 08:12:43 PM

Quote from: kesdrive on December 10, 2025, 05:59:46 PMBeen waiting for push-pull sets for years!. Just a pity the new tooled Ivatt tank has no push-pull option! (Will the old dapol Ivatt body fit the new tooled version?).

Chris

The "British Railways" version is supposed to have the push-pull apparatus fitted. Just that the livery samples all used the standard body.

Bob G

Thanks Bob

Quote from: PLD on December 10, 2025, 08:41:17 PMHi @Adam1701D , @Stevie DC
A possible anomaly in the chosen running numbers: if my references (incl the David Jenkinson book) are correct, 2P-010-307 BR Lined Maroon Brake Third - M20577M was a Period 2 Diag 1735... All the other BT number choices are P3 Diag 1907s.

Happy to be corrected if you have information otherwise...

He's right folks. That's embarrassing...  :-[

20577 should be 20757, we'll get that corrected.

Quote from: Steven B on December 09, 2025, 04:19:02 PM

Quote from: Dalek on December 09, 2025, 03:48:42 PMCan anyone help with a typical rake of these please ?

Suburbans marked in bold:
1964:
Windermere-Oxenhome BS C BCK BSK CK BSK (bold = suburban, others Mk1 heading to Euston)

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS C BS S BS C BS S (all suburbans, front BS C BS S from Southport to Blackpool Central, second set from Bolton to Blackpool North). Note brake vehicles not at end of train!

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS C BS S S S CK BSK (CK and BSK corridor stock for Fleetwood).

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS S CK BS BSK SK CK BSK (SK/CK/BSK all corridor to Barrow). Initial CK also coridor.

Manchester Vic to Blackpool: BS C BS BS C BS S CK BSK + 3x fish vans

Quote from: Steven B on December 10, 2025, 04:02:59 PMFrom the Comet/Wizard models instructions:

BT/T (with van inboard)
BT/C/BT
BT/C/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/BT
BT/C/BT/BT/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/T/BT

No mention of locations or dates.

Thanks both  :thumbsup:

Well done Dapol  :claphappy:

Craig

So this Driving Brake Third, any examples of what would be on the other end?
Steam only?, i seen a mention of a motor on it on this thread?

I've only really came across the auto coach and pannier before.

Craig

Quote from: Dalek on December 11, 2025, 04:25:32 PMSo this Driving Brake Third, any examples of what would be on the other end?
Steam only?, i seen a mention of a motor on it on this thread?

I've only really came across the auto coach and pannier before.

Craig

As per earlier in the thread: in Push-pull operation a steam loco fitted with appropriate Vacuum control gear. Pre 1948, mainly an assortment of pre-grouping design tank locos (currently nothing available RTR). Post-war the Ivatt 2MT tank is common and a small batch of Jinties confined to South Wales.
Not compatible with locos of any other region: GW used a mechanical linkage, NE was a different air pressure system. SR  technically matching but IIRC, hoses wouldn't connect.
Could of course be used as ordinary coaching stock with any loco with compatible Vac Brakes...

The carriage was not fitted with a motor (not self propelled) - the term "motor train" was one of several descriptions applied to the formation as a whole of Loco+intermediate coaches (with necessary pipework)+Driving/Control coach.

Hi all

Maybe there is scope for one of the 3D printers to produce a resin body for the Stanier 0-4-4T to fit the Dapol M7 chassis, I know its been done in 4mm scale.

Ian

Quote from: PLD on December 11, 2025, 04:44:43 PM

Quote from: Dalek on December 11, 2025, 04:25:32 PMSo this Driving Brake Third, any examples of what would be on the other end?
Steam only?, i seen a mention of a motor on it on this thread?

I've only really came across the auto coach and pannier before.

Craig

As per earlier in the thread: in Push-pull operation a steam loco fitted with appropriate Vacuum control gear. Pre 1948, mainly an assortment of pre-grouping design tank locos (currently nothing available RTR). Post-war the Ivatt 2MT tank is common and a small batch of Jinties confined to South Wales.
Not compatible with locos of any other region: GW used a mechanical linkage, NE was a different air pressure system. SR  technically matching but IIRC, hoses wouldn't connect.
Could of course be used as ordinary coaching stock with any loco with compatible Vac Brakes...

The carriage was not fitted with a motor (not self propelled) - the term "motor train" was one of several descriptions applied to the formation as a whole of Loco+intermediate coaches (with necessary pipework)+Driving/Control coach.

Thanks for the explanation  :thumbsup:

Craig

Really looking forward to purchasing these models.

In my teens I made a model of the driving brake third based on a GRAFAR suburban coach following inspiration by an article in Railway Modeller (May 1977, page 144). Unfortunately it got lost along the way, somewhere in all the moves of the last nearly 50 years since its creation. As such I had, only fairly recently, purchased upon Fleabay a sacrificial suburban with an intent to carry out a similar act of butchery ( with apologies for such a sacriligous act to SPAM, to be passed on via John @Train Waiting ). Now it seems that that example of the classic Poole suburban will be saved from the knife, thanks to @Stevie DC and all at Dapol for providing the new DBT,

Cheers,

Colin.     

Quote from: Steven B on December 10, 2025, 04:02:59 PMFrom the Comet/Wizard models instructions:

BT/T (with van inboard)
BT/C/BT
BT/C/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/BT
BT/C/BT/BT/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/T/BT

No mention of locations or dates.

For a push pull train there would be a DBT and a push pull fitted comp; but could there be an all third and a BT as well or would they too have to be push pull fitted (there is no mention of that in Dapol's list)? Otherwise it'd be just a 2 coach train.

Quote from: cmason on December 12, 2025, 04:04:37 AMNow it seems that that example of the classic Poole suburban will be saved from the knife, thanks to @Stevie DC and all at Dapol for providing the new DBT,

Phew! The ProperlyPoole carriage has been spared. Sounds like it was a close-run thing, though.

With all good wishes.

John

Quote from: madchadbrad on December 12, 2025, 09:31:58 AM

Quote from: Steven B on December 10, 2025, 04:02:59 PMFrom the Comet/Wizard models instructions:

BT/T (with van inboard)
BT/C/BT
BT/C/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/BT
BT/C/BT/BT/T/BT
BT/T/F/T/T/BT

No mention of locations or dates.

For a push pull train there would be a DBT and a push pull fitted comp; but could there be an all third and a BT as well or would they too have to be push pull fitted (there is no mention of that in Dapol's list)? Otherwise it'd be just a 2 coach train.

I will bow to others with greater knowledge, but it was my understanding that a push-pull set would typically be restricted to two coaches due to limitations of the control linkages between loco and coaches.

Quote from: cmason on December 12, 2025, 04:04:37 AMReally looking forward to purchasing these models.

In my teens I made a model of the driving brake third based on a GRAFAR suburban coach following inspiration by an article in Railway Modeller (May 1977, page 144). Unfortunately it got lost along the way, somewhere in all the moves of the last nearly 50 years since its creation. As such I had, only fairly recently, purchased upon Fleabay a sacrificial suburban with an intent to carry out a similar act of butchery ( with apologies for such a sacriligous act to SPAM, to be passed on via John @Train Waiting ). Now it seems that that example of the classic Poole suburban will be saved from the knife, thanks to @Stevie DC and all at Dapol for providing the new DBT,

Cheers,

Colin. 

Well i found just such a thing on Ebay and to add insult to Injury lifted the white metal end and grafted it ( pretty well by my standards) onto a contemporary Farish Suburban brake... Since then i have discovered offerings from Isinglass (lner) and now this... ( if it comes to pass). 

There's a brief overview of (ex)LMS Pull and Push trains here:
https://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/Push%20Pull%20YTT.html

I've yet to find any photos of Pull and Push trains with more than three carriages, which given that the system was vacuum based would suggest that's the physical limit of the system (just like the GWR was limited to two vehicles because of the mechanical linkage).

Pulled trains could be longer, whilst its possible that pushed trains could have additional vans added behind the loco.

One coach:
Southwell, 1959: https://flic.kr/p/zF9TZU

Two coaches:
Coniston 1958: https://flic.kr/p/o3c6J6
Northampton 1959: https://flic.kr/p/AtBPpS
Holcombe 1959: https://flic.kr/p/guKk3E

Three coaches:
Deganwy, 1955: https://flic.kr/p/GJY3vB

Quote from: madchadbrad on December 12, 2025, 09:31:58 AMFor a push pull train there would be a DBT and a push pull fitted comp; but could there be an all third and a BT as well or would they too have to be push pull fitted (there is no mention of that in Dapol's list)? Otherwise it'd be just a 2 coach train.

For Push-Pull operation, there would be a Loco at one end of the set and a Driving Control coach at the other end (driving end outwards of course).

In between could be any number of coaches provided they were all "motor fitted" - that means they have the through pipework and electrical connections to connect the Loco to the driving coach. The LMS had fitted Composites and 3rds, though Dapol's initial list only includes fitted Comps.

Theoretically any number of intermediate vehicles could be included, unlike the GW mechanical system where slop in the linkages limited it to one intermediate vehicle. The practical limitation is in the power of the loco (mostly Tanks of power class 1&2) and formations of more than 3 coaches were uncommon, with 2 coaches probably being most common. On the LMS it was very rare (but not totally unknown) for the loco to be in the middle between 2 driving trailers.

Most common formations from photo evidence would seem to be:

• Loco - Composite - Driving Brake Third
• Loco - Third - Driving Brake Third
• Loco - Driving Brake Third
• Loco - Third - Composite - Driving Brake Third
• Loco - Composite - Composite - Driving Brake Third
• Loco - Third - Third - Driving Brake Third
• Loco - Third - Third - Composite - Driving Brake Third

Are these the coaches?
https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrk152.htm

Quote from: leachsprite4 on December 12, 2025, 11:04:46 AMAre these the coaches?
https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrk152.htm

No - the planned Dapol models are Period 3 style coaches.
The pair closed to the Camera are ex-LNWR vehicles, and the far end driving trailer is either a P1 type or ex-LNWR. The intermediate coach at the far end not 100% sure but looks like a period 2 Lav-Composite.

Quote from: Steven B on December 12, 2025, 10:59:50 AMOne coach:
Southwell, 1959: https://flic.kr/p/zF9TZU

Two coaches:
Coniston 1958: https://flic.kr/p/o3c6J6
Northampton 1959: https://flic.kr/p/AtBPpS
Holcombe 1959: https://flic.kr/p/guKk3E

Three coaches:
Deganwy, 1955: https://flic.kr/p/GJY3vB

The Welsh Dragon in the Deganwy photo is the definite for me, 1x DBT+2x Comp doable from the range offered, just need to renumber one of the comps.

[Note the Northampton shot is Period 2 stock.]

Quote from: Steven B on December 12, 2025, 10:59:50 AMTwo coaches:
Coniston 1958: https://flic.kr/p/o3c6J6

The Coniston motor train looked better pre-war, with an Aspinall Radial at one end  :D

Any evidence that a "non-driving" BT might have been through fitted for push-pull?

Quote from: madchadbrad on December 12, 2025, 08:06:57 PMAny evidence that a "non-driving" BT might have been through fitted for push-pull?

Certainly none built motor fitted, and none listed in the known conversions.
I can't see there would be a need for non-driving brakes - The driving trailers were all brakes, and they weren't intended for routes with high demand for luggage space needing a second van in a two/coach train.

Quote from: Steven B on December 12, 2025, 10:59:50 AMI've yet to find any photos of Pull and Push trains with more than three carriages, which given that the system was vacuum based would suggest that's the physical limit of the system (just like the GWR was limited to two vehicles because of the mechanical linkage).

The GWR was limited to four coaches not two as you could run the mechanical linkages in both directions. That was a standard configuration for some of the Plymouth suburban services.

Not sure how "loco in the middle" worked for the LMS system or if it was even possible.

Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 13, 2025, 02:42:24 PMNot sure how "loco in the middle" worked for the LMS system or if it was even possible.

It could be done but was rare.
As I understand it, change over from driving at one trailer to the other involved simply closing one valve and opening another. From what I've read elsewhere didn't the GWR system mean disconnecting one linkage and connecting the other??

Quote from: PLD on December 13, 2025, 06:04:43 PM

Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 13, 2025, 02:42:24 PMNot sure how "loco in the middle" worked for the LMS system or if it was even possible.

It could be done but was rare.
As I understand it, change over from driving at one trailer to the other involved simply closing one valve and opening another. From what I've read elsewhere didn't the GWR system mean disconnecting one linkage and connecting the other??

I believe so.

Alan

Quote from: PLD on December 12, 2025, 09:55:48 PM

Quote from: madchadbrad on December 12, 2025, 08:06:57 PMAny evidence that a "non-driving" BT might have been through fitted for push-pull?

Certainly none built motor fitted, and none listed in the known conversions.
I can't see there would be a need for non-driving brakes - The driving trailers were all brakes, and they weren't intended for routes with high demand for luggage space needing a second van in a two/coach train.

Thanks! I asked because I was thinking of expressing interest in an example of each coach type so: BT, 3rd, fitted comp, DBT. I could run them as a standard 4 coach loco fwd train and then discard the BT & 3rd if using them as a push pull set. For my locos that are suitable they would be BR lined maroon; I don't have any pre-nationalisation locos that would fit.

I just tried to express my interest in some BR lined maroon versions but cannot get their system to register any number other than "0" for the DBT 2P-010-404. All the other ones I selected had a pull down menu for the quantity but not that one!
Anyone else had a problem?

Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 13, 2025, 06:05:31 PM

Quote from: PLD on December 13, 2025, 06:04:43 PM

Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 13, 2025, 02:42:24 PMNot sure how "loco in the middle" worked for the LMS system or if it was even possible.

It could be done but was rare.
As I understand it, change over from driving at one trailer to the other involved simply closing one valve and opening another. From what I've read elsewhere didn't the GWR system mean disconnecting one linkage and connecting the other??

I believe so.

Alan

the mechanical system employed by the GWR had one connection for each end and had to be connected/disconnected manually and only one end at a time - I did that as a fireman at Didcot railway centre back in the 80s

Regards,

Alex

Quote from: madchadbrad on December 17, 2025, 01:27:59 PMI just tried to express my interest in some BR lined maroon versions but cannot get their system to register any number other than "0" for the DBT 2P-010-404. All the other ones I selected had a pull down menu for the quantity but not that one!
Anyone else had a problem?

Hi, I've just tried this on my computer and didn't find any issue with the drop down menu. Could you try again please?

If you keep experiencing the same issue, let me know and I'll raise this with the marketing team to see if it is an occasional glitch.

Many thanks.

Quote from: Stevie DC on December 18, 2025, 04:38:18 PM

Quote from: madchadbrad on December 17, 2025, 01:27:59 PMI just tried to express my interest in some BR lined maroon versions but cannot get their system to register any number other than "0" for the DBT 2P-010-404. All the other ones I selected had a pull down menu for the quantity but not that one!
Anyone else had a problem?

Hi, I've just tried this on my computer and didn't find any issue with the drop down menu. Could you try again please?

If you keep experiencing the same issue, let me know and I'll raise this with the marketing team to see if it is an occasional glitch.

Many thanks.

I just tried again on my laptop, rather than my iPad, and it finally worked OK.
I had sent Dapol a message about it and they said it had been a problem on mobile phones and they thought had been fixed but they would check it again.
Maybe it had been fixed or maybe it was my iPad!
All sorted now anyway.

It would be great if the system sent you an email with a list of items you selected.

Craig

We've just posted our first update about this project on Facebook. We currently have just over half the number of expressions of interest we need to progress to the tooling phase.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1276581994486005&set=a.454526186691594

Please remember that there is no obligation to buy at this stage. We are simply ascertaining if there is sufficient interest in these coaches to progress to the tooling and prototype stage.

Latest update: over halfway to the target number of expressions of interest!
https://tinyurl.com/5x8twbhy

At 65% there's still quite a way to go :worried:

4 weeks since the last update on the Dapol website. Are we any further along, please?

Quote from: Newportnobby on January 26, 2026, 02:14:52 PM4 weeks since the last update on the Dapol website. Are we any further along, please?

They must have heard you as they posted on Facebook today - 80% there

Thanks for that. I don't do Facebook. Perhaps they could update their own website

Quote from: Newportnobby on January 27, 2026, 01:56:55 PMThanks for that. I don't do Facebook. Perhaps they could update their own website

People that "do" Facebook don't realise that many of us don't. They should certainly have a progress line at the top of the "expression of interest" page. It would probably accelerate progress. If it's gone from 50% to 80% in a month, they should get there or thereabouts by March... :worried: 

Hope at least the push pull set gets done...

Quote from: class8mikado on January 28, 2026, 10:28:36 AMHope at least the push pull set gets done...

If they are already 80% there and magazines with ads promoting the coaches (including the NGS Journal) have only just landed on people's doormats I would be cautiously optimistic that the minimum quantity required to make the whole project viable will be achieved including the push-pull coaches.

With the success of the Gresley BG and refurbed Buffet already achieved, it does leave me pondering whether we might at some point see some other similarly marginal projects promoted in a similar way going forward.

Roy

It also means there's no discount from the box shifters :laugh:

Quote from: Newportnobby on January 28, 2026, 11:41:39 AMIt also means there's no discount from the box shifters :laugh:

True, but also no dealer margin to factor in to pricing where sold direct.

To be honest on the face of it that may look like a good thing and is certainly a way of bringing a more "marginal" model to market, but in terms of supporting a network of model shops it does nothing, so I hope it is used selectively. I also hope that it means the tooling can be used for subsequent runs made available to their dealer network.

Roy

I'd like to think that, paying £40 for a coach, any left unsold are not discounted as, having supported both projects from the get go, I'd be seriously brassed off

Quote from: Stuart Down Under on January 28, 2026, 12:45:37 AM

Quote from: Newportnobby on January 27, 2026, 01:56:55 PMThanks for that. I don't do Facebook. Perhaps they could update their own website

People that "do" Facebook don't realise that many of us don't. They should certainly have a progress line at the top of the "expression of interest" page. It would probably accelerate progress. If it's gone from 50% to 80% in a month, they should get there or thereabouts by March... :worried:

As someone who mostly uses this branch of the NGF but also, to a lesser extent, "does" the FaceBook branch, albeit sticking to only certain well moderated groups and avoiding the general melee, it is quiet noticeable how the NGF community is largely split into two separate "sections" with the overlapping portion of the venn diagram being relatively small....

Anyhoo, getting back to the topic, I do suspect we will get there on this project. In fact to some extent I might even welcome the possibility of a slight delay as I have so much on pre-order here and there right now that the prospect of it all coming in at once is slightly concerning...  :worried: .     

As I expressed interest in almost all of the Gresley versions, I decided to only plump for four of the Staniers, one of each pattern, and only in BR lined maroon, as these would match the only suitable loco I have for push-pull operation.  I would run a 2-coach push pull train: fitted comp, DBT; alternating with a 4-coach pull-only: plus 3rd & BT. I expect that someone will eventually tell me that my particular choice would, prototypically, never be seen running together! Oh well, I did my best to help get the project to the finishing post ... currently >80% . . .

The Stanier non-corridor coaches project is now 90% there, according to Dapol's Facebook account but it hasn't appeared on their website-proper yet . . .

 I was sure they were initially announced as "non-corridor" but now they seem to be "non-lavatory suburban"? Are they compartmented or open?

They're compartmented - see the CAD Image of the brake-second/third about a third of the way down the December project update:
https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-lms-period-iii-57ft-non-lavatory-suburban-stock-progress-report

Quote from: madchadbrad on February 09, 2026, 05:45:09 PMThe Stanier non-corridor coaches project is now 90% there, according to Dapol's Facebook account but it hasn't appeared on their website-proper yet . . .

Has anyone seen an update please?

Quote from: Newportnobby on March 13, 2026, 12:34:31 PM

Quote from: madchadbrad on February 09, 2026, 05:45:09 PMThe Stanier non-corridor coaches project is now 90% there, according to Dapol's Facebook account but it hasn't appeared on their website-proper yet . . .

Has anyone seen an update please?

There was a March e-mail newsletter (2nd March) and that update showed the N Gauge LMS suburban project to be at 95% -that is the most recent one I know of. Fingers crossed being that close to the line now the project will find the "legs" to go the rest of the way and reach the quantity needed and go ahead.

From the Dapol website posted today...

Project Update

We are delighted to announce that we are now announce this project has now received sufficient to allow us to move it into the tooling room. we expect to have first shots/EP's in approximately three months time.

We will bring you a more comprehensive update as soon as possible, so stay tuned.


https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-lms-period-iii-57ft-non-lavatory-suburban-stock-progress-report-v

That's good news, even though I won't be having any.

(I am, however, up for two refurbished Gresley buffets and two Gresley Full Brakes, but you can't have everything!)

Quote from: Bob G on March 16, 2026, 04:04:43 PM(I am, however, up for two refurbished Gresley buffets and two Gresley Full Brakes, but you can't have everything!)

Doesn't stop you trying, though :-X

Dapol have posed on facebook these are going into prouduction

Quote from: Newportnobby on March 16, 2026, 04:32:30 PM

Quote from: Bob G on March 16, 2026, 04:04:43 PM... you can't have everything!

Doesn't stop you trying, though :-X

I don't have anything Scottish.... apart from two Claytons! And arguably Drummond's M7 tank has Scottish ancestry.

Happy days - I'm up for at least 4 maybe six, a 4 coach set and a 2 coach push pull set

Regards,

Alex

Is there someone from Dapol on this thread ?

Please email us this information and also what we showed an interest in  :thumbsup:

Craig

Like Craig, I did register interest but can't recall which I required. There is no tracking of 'expression of interest' unlike an e mail so only Dapol know what I wanted :doh:
Unlike the Gresley buffet coach and full brakes, I did post in that thread what I was interested in.
I appreciate it's a lot of work to contact eejits like me but it would help me enormously. Just for the record I reckon it's 1 x 2P-010-404 and 2 x 2P-010-204

Theses are scans from the Railway Magazine from August 2020.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/158/1517-170326164220.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=158760)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/158/1517-170326164235.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=158761)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/158/1517-170326164249.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=158762)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/158/1517-170326164307.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=158763)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/158/1517-170326164320.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=158764)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/158/1517-170326164337.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=158765)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/158/1517-170326164350.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=158766)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/158/1517-170326164403.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=158767)

I'm confused as to whether a 3-car push pull set would have had two composite coaches, Mick.
On the southern they had two car pull-push sets which were supplemented at peak periods by an all second compartment coach. I would have expected that configuration on the Midland too. The spare would have been piped underneath like the composite, to allow the driver in the driving brake second to still have control of his loco. The non-corridor second would be next to the loco.

I don't specifically know why Dapol labelled one of the composite coaches as push-pull but I suspect it is just the number applied. You could probably just get a second class coach 2P-010-007 or 008 to make a three car rake.

Best
Bob

Good to see a pic of 41222 on the 'Newportnobby' :D

Quote from: Bob G on March 17, 2026, 05:08:06 PMI'm confused as to whether a 3-car push pull set would have had two composite coaches, Mick.
On the southern they had two car pull-push sets which were supplemented at peak periods by an all second compartment coach. I would have expected that configuration on the Midland too. The spare would have been piped underneath like the composite, to allow the driver in the driving brake second to still have control of his loco. The non-corridor second would be next to the loco.

I don't specifically know why Dapol labelled one of the composite coaches as push-pull but I suspect it is just the number applied. You could probably just get a second class coach 2P-010-007 or 008 to make a three car rake.

Both questions answered earlier in the thread... ;)
DBT-C-C formation certainly happened (the "Welsh Dragon" - the only named Push-Pull service - was this formation). DBT-C-T was most common for a 3-coach set, however Dapol haven't included a fitted Third in this first round...

The ones labelled as "Push-Pull Composites" are numbered as fitted vehicles (the others are non-fitted so couldn't be used in Push-Pull mode) The only visible difference was an extra air Cylinder underneath and a couple of extra hoses on the ends...

Quote from: PLD on March 17, 2026, 09:58:41 PMThe ones labelled as "Push-Pull Composites" are numbered as fitted vehicles (the others are non-fitted so couldn't be used in Push-Pull mode) The only visible difference was an extra air Cylinder underneath and a couple of extra hoses on the ends...

So if @Newportnobby Mick wasn't worried about the number, or looking underneath the chassis for (non-existent) pipes, then I guess he could just buy an unfitted third (second in maroon livery).

Given Dapol are not retooling the roof for the refurbished Gresley buffet, I doubt they are making the chassis any different for the push-pull variants (but let's see, nothing's been said so far).

Bob G

Quote from: Bob G on March 17, 2026, 10:52:50 PM

Quote from: PLD on March 17, 2026, 09:58:41 PMThe ones labelled as "Push-Pull Composites" are numbered as fitted vehicles (the others are non-fitted so couldn't be used in Push-Pull mode) The only visible difference was an extra air Cylinder underneath and a couple of extra hoses on the ends...

So if @Newportnobby Mick wasn't worried about the number, or looking underneath the chassis for (non-existent) pipes, then I guess he could just buy an unfitted third (second in maroon livery).

It's a funny thing, that. When they're on the tracks you can't see underneath :P

Quote from: Bob G on March 17, 2026, 10:52:50 PMSo if @Newportnobby Mick wasn't worried about the number, or looking underneath the chassis for (non-existent) pipes, then I guess he could just buy an unfitted third (second in maroon livery).

For a 3-car set currently a choice of 2 Comps with the same number or include a 3rd numbered as a non-fitted example. Neither quite right if you don't want to go to the trouble of renumbering...

Quote from: Newportnobby on March 17, 2026, 04:20:27 PMLike Craig, I did register interest but can't recall which I required. There is no tracking of 'expression of interest' unlike an e mail so only Dapol know what I wanted :doh:

Same here, i like to have an email i can set a reminder to or keep etc etc

Craig

Good to see on the Dapol website that these have gone for tooling.

Quote from: Crepello on March 25, 2026, 05:02:10 PMGood to see on the Dapol website that these have gone for tooling.

Late to the party here. I'm very happy that these are going to get produced too!  :claphappy:

Apart from the numbering, are there any other differences between the push-pull versions of Dapol's Ivatt 2MT tank locos and the non-push-pull versions?

Quote from: madchadbrad on April 09, 2026, 09:17:48 PMApart from the numbering, are there any other differences between the push-pull versions of Dapol's Ivatt 2MT tank locos and the non-push-pull versions?

Yes, the very prominent push-pull equipment by the smokebox, unlike the GW locos which had mechanical linkages, LMS ones had a vacuum driven system.

Quote from: madchadbrad on April 09, 2026, 09:17:48 PMApart from the numbering, are there any other differences between the push-pull versions of Dapol's Ivatt 2MT tank locos and the non-push-pull versions?

Yes - the push-pull version has extra tooling for the pumps and fiddly bits.

(Edited for spelling)

Quote from: Adam1701D on April 10, 2026, 09:29:27 AM

Quote from: madchadbrad on April 09, 2026, 09:17:48 PMApart from the numbering, are there any other differences between the push-pull versions of Dapol's Ivatt 2MT tank locos and the non-push-pull versions?

Yes - the push-pull version has extra tooling for the pimps and fiddly bits.

Now that's a really unfortunate typo :smiley-laughing:

Quote from: Roy L S on April 09, 2026, 11:26:39 PM

Quote from: madchadbrad on April 09, 2026, 09:17:48 PMApart from the numbering, are there any other differences between the push-pull versions of Dapol's Ivatt 2MT tank locos and the non-push-pull versions?

Yes, the very prominent push-pull equipment by the smokebox, unlike the GW locos which had mechanical linkages, LMS ones had a vacuum driven system.

Thanks!
Darn it! That probably means that s/h examples of the original Dapol production run version will be like for hens teeth ... or any new run version at premium price!

I wonder it anyone does an add-on moulding/3D print that could be added to a non-push-pull loco?

Maybe this from Peter's Spares?
EBay.uk item #314587589414

Quote from: madchadbrad on April 10, 2026, 10:52:42 AM

Quote from: Roy L S on April 09, 2026, 11:26:39 PM

Quote from: madchadbrad on April 09, 2026, 09:17:48 PMApart from the numbering, are there any other differences between the push-pull versions of Dapol's Ivatt 2MT tank locos and the non-push-pull versions?

Yes, the very prominent push-pull equipment by the smokebox, unlike the GW locos which had mechanical linkages, LMS ones had a vacuum driven system.

Thanks!
Darn it! That probably means that s/h examples of the original Dapol production run version will be like for hens teeth ... or any new run version at premium price!

I wonder it anyone does an add-on moulding/3D print that could be added to a non-push-pull loco?

Having had mine exit the table (at the kind of speeds only these locos seem capable of) and suffer external damage i had to buy a couple of spare bodies. If the push pull apperatus is still on either of them its yours, will have a rummage tonight...

I believe that the BRITISH RAILWAYS version of the Ivatt will have push pull apparatus fitted.

Only the following were push-pull fitted, according to my googling of Wikipedia:
41210 to 41229, 41270-41289 & 41320-41329.

Quote from: Dalek on March 17, 2026, 04:06:15 PMIs there someone from Dapol on this thread ?

Please email us this information and also what we showed an interest in  :thumbsup:

Craig

@Adam1701D  could you please advise on this, i have asked in this thread, replied to the "April Newsletter and Offers" email to sales@dapol.co.uk. No reply to either, please please please can you ask for the expressions of interest to be emailed out so we know what we expressed our interest in  :thumbsup:

Thanks
Craig

An "expression of interest" is just that. At that point, there is no firm commitment to purchase the exact items you expressed interest in.

It may be that only aggregated numbers are recorded and not necessarily tied to individuals - that's certainly the case with some other suppliers.

When the order book is opened, at that point you can make the decision of the precise items you wish to commit to purchase (which could be different or more or less than your initial EoI)

If you did want to model a specific train and did the research, surely you didn't bin that as soon as you placed the EoI??

Quote from: PLD on April 14, 2026, 11:12:38 AMWhen the order book is opened, at that point you can make the decision of the precise items you wish to commit to purchase (which could be different or more or less than your initial EoI)

We have no clue as to what 'slack' there is in Dapol's purchasing so I'd like to think anyone making an EoI and sticking with it would have a priority over anyone changing their mind mid stream, as it were. If their change of mind cannot be accommodated by Dapol at that point in time, then they'll just have to hope they can swap with someone else

Quote from: Newportnobby on April 14, 2026, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: PLD on April 14, 2026, 11:12:38 AMWhen the order book is opened, at that point you can make the decision of the precise items you wish to commit to purchase (which could be different or more or less than your initial EoI)

We have no clue as to what 'slack' there is in Dapol's purchasing so I'd like to think anyone making an EoI and sticking with it would have a priority over anyone changing their mind mid stream, as it were. If their change of mind cannot be accommodated by Dapol at that point in time, then they'll just have to hope they can swap with someone else

If Dapol follow the same convention as others such as Revolution, Rapido etc the EoIs determine if it is viable; then actual orders determine what/how many of each are manufactured...

Quote from: PLD on April 14, 2026, 11:45:17 AM

Quote from: Newportnobby on April 14, 2026, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: PLD on April 14, 2026, 11:12:38 AMWhen the order book is opened, at that point you can make the decision of the precise items you wish to commit to purchase (which could be different or more or less than your initial EoI)

We have no clue as to what 'slack' there is in Dapol's purchasing so I'd like to think anyone making an EoI and sticking with it would have a priority over anyone changing their mind mid stream, as it were. If their change of mind cannot be accommodated by Dapol at that point in time, then they'll just have to hope they can swap with someone else

If Dapol follow the same convention as others such as Revolution, Rapido etc the EoIs determine if it is viable; then actual orders determine what/how many of each are manufactured...

Sorry, but there has to be some form of priority for those who got the models over the line in the first place. What form that takes, I don't mind.
Otherwise, let's just make an EoI for everything whether it's wanted or not

Quote from: PLD on April 14, 2026, 11:12:38 AMAn "expression of interest" is just that. At that point, there is no firm commitment to purchase the exact items you expressed interest in.

It may be that only aggregated numbers are recorded and not necessarily tied to individuals - that's certainly the case with some other suppliers.

This is why i tagged @Adam1701D in, hoping he (Dapol) can advise. All i want is an email of what i expressed an interest in, yes i have forgot, lost the info etc etc. They must have this info from the forms we filled in. I don't think its asking too much, if i do this with any other manufacturer then i would get this automatically, that's why i didn't take a note when i did it, i was expecting an email with this info in it.

Craig

Quote from: Newportnobby on April 14, 2026, 12:11:04 PM

Quote from: PLD on April 14, 2026, 11:45:17 AM

Quote from: Newportnobby on April 14, 2026, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: PLD on April 14, 2026, 11:12:38 AMWhen the order book is opened, at that point you can make the decision of the precise items you wish to commit to purchase (which could be different or more or less than your initial EoI)

We have no clue as to what 'slack' there is in Dapol's purchasing so I'd like to think anyone making an EoI and sticking with it would have a priority over anyone changing their mind mid stream, as it were. If their change of mind cannot be accommodated by Dapol at that point in time, then they'll just have to hope they can swap with someone else

If Dapol follow the same convention as others such as Revolution, Rapido etc the EoIs determine if it is viable; then actual orders determine what/how many of each are manufactured...

Sorry, but there has to be some form of priority for those who got the models over the line in the first place. What form that takes, I don't mind.
Otherwise, let's just make an EoI for everything whether it's wanted or not

TBH Mick, I'm struggling to see what the problem is...  If there are 1000 ordered when the order book opens,1000+ will be produced, regardless of whether there were 800 or 1000 or 1200 EoIs...
Nobody risks losing out by someone else upping their order... :hmmm:

And that's why I started out with...........

Quote from: Newportnobby on April 14, 2026, 11:33:21 AMWe have no clue as to what 'slack' there is in Dapol's purchasing

What if they only ordered smaller quantities based on EoIs + a little?

I also stated............

Quote from: Newportnobby on January 28, 2026, 12:57:44 PMI'd like to think that, paying £40 for a coach, any left unsold are not discounted as, having supported both projects from the get go, I'd be seriously brassed off

 :sleep:

Expressions of interest are typically taken by a manufacturer to establish whether a project is viable, they are not in themselves pre-orders, do not establish a "place" in a queue and are in no way binding on anyone even after a manufacturer confirms the minimum order quantity threshold has been met.

We know that Dapol has said it is satisfied that enough people want the coaches and based on that they commenced tooling, I would expect that at some stage further down the line they will invite people to place orders, maybe at that point they might ask for a payment, either a deposit or in full but possibly neither.

On the subject of availability, I would think it is inconceivable that they wouldn't order sufficient from the factory to cover known pre-orders, probably with a (possibly small) margin.

Roy



 

I have no interest in these coaches, but my experience with the prototype HST was that Dapol had registered my interest, and when the project reached the point of pre-order, I received an email invitation. As others have said, the EoI is just a survey, really.

Quote from: madchadbrad on April 10, 2026, 11:30:17 AMMaybe this from Peter's Spares?
EBay.uk item #314587589414

I asked "Peter" of Peter's Spares fame and all he said was that all the items pictured on eBay are included in the item.
Which doesn't tell me whether the Push-pull apparatus is part of the selection!
Not very helpful I'm afraid.

Quote from: madchadbrad on April 14, 2026, 02:13:37 PM

Quote from: madchadbrad on April 10, 2026, 11:30:17 AMMaybe this from Peter's Spares?
EBay.uk item #314587589414

I asked "Peter" of Peter's Spares fame and all he said was that all the items pictured on eBay are included in the item.
Which doesn't tell me whether the Push-pull apparatus is part of the selection!
Not very helpful I'm afraid.

Well... The link shows as invalid, but...
Look at the picture;
Is the Push-pull gear in the picture?
If yes, it's included in the selection. If no, it's Not included in the selection.

Seems perfectly clear to me...  :confused1:

Quote from: PLD on April 14, 2026, 02:48:37 PM

Quote from: madchadbrad on April 14, 2026, 02:13:37 PM

Quote from: madchadbrad on April 10, 2026, 11:30:17 AMMaybe this from Peter's Spares?
EBay.uk item #314587589414

I asked "Peter" of Peter's Spares fame and all he said was that all the items pictured on eBay are included in the item.
Which doesn't tell me whether the Push-pull apparatus is part of the selection!
Not very helpful I'm afraid.

Well... The link shows as invalid, but...
Look at the picture;
Is the Push-pull gear in the picture?
If yes, it's included in the selection. If no, it's Not included in the selection.

Seems perfectly clear to me...  :confused1:

That might be true if I knew what I was looking for: I have no idea what the push-pull gear would look like as a separate spare part!

Quote from: Yet_Another on April 14, 2026, 01:58:18 PMAs others have said, the EoI is just a survey, really.

Yes, I've assumed that Dapol have used the EOI process both to assess demand and to build a mailing list to invite orders when production starts. By expressing an interest you've committed yourself to nothing and I doubt Dapol have retained any lists of precisely what each person expressed an interest in - just the aggregate numbers which allowed them to make the decision to go ahead with production.

.

Seems perfectly clear to me...  :confused1:
[/quote]

That might be true if I knew what I was looking for: I have no idea what the push-pull gear would look like as a separate spare part!
[/quote]

Well i dug out my spare body and checking with photos of the real thing on Google images - Found this   https://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/Push%20Pull%20YTT.html  - my spare has gear intact on one side but damaged missing (from the crash) from the other  so sorry cant help.

Quote from: class8mikado on April 16, 2026, 09:47:51 AM.

Seems perfectly clear to me...  :confused1:

That might be true if I knew what I was looking for: I have no idea what the push-pull gear would look like as a separate spare part!
[/quote]

Well i dug out my spare body and checking with photos of the real thing on Google images - Found this  https://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/Push%20Pull%20YTT.html  - my spare has gear intact on one side but damaged missing (from the crash) from the other  so sorry cant help.
[/quote]

Many thanks for that article! Difficult to tell whether the "Dapol spares" kit I spotted chez Peter's Spares includes the necessary parts though ... ... ... I might just buy the kit to find out, now there are prototype photos for reference!
If you have a photo of the undamaged side of your push pull loco I can compare it with a non-push-pull loco and try fit bits from the spares kit to suit? Then all I would have to do is renumber the loco to be ready for the forthcoming suburban coaches.

You can find photos of the previous Ivatt 2-6-2MT here:
Hattons Version Details (https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/2166/dapol_n_2_6_2t_class_2mt_ivatt_lms)

Or, compare to Dapol's O Gauge model:
Photo 1 (https://blogstudio.s3.theshoppad.net/dapoltest/48665e81e6948b6af5b1faa45e0a7189.png)
Photo 2 (https://blogstudio.s3.theshoppad.net/dapoltest/8e62c2a20cd64c61cdde8c85e5f62aeb.png)

You're looking for all the extra gubbins either side of the smoke box (in place of the normal cylinder exhaust pipes).

Quote from: madchadbrad on April 17, 2026, 07:59:08 AM

Quote from: class8mikado on April 16, 2026, 09:47:51 AM.

Seems perfectly clear to me...  :confused1:

That might be true if I knew what I was looking for: I have no idea what the push-pull gear would look like as a separate spare part!

Well i dug out my spare body and checking with photos of the real thing on Google images - Found this  https://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/Push%20Pull%20YTT.html  - my spare has gear intact on one side but damaged missing (from the crash) from the other  so sorry cant help.
[/quote]

Many thanks for that article! Difficult to tell whether the "Dapol spares" kit I spotted chez Peter's Spares includes the necessary parts though ... ... ... I might just buy the kit to find out, now there are prototype photos for reference!
If you have a photo of the undamaged side of your push pull loco I can compare it with a non-push-pull loco and try fit bits from the spares kit to suit? Then all I would have to do is renumber the loco to be ready for the forthcoming suburban coaches.
[/quote]

Steven B has saved me the job

Many thanks Steven B and Class8mikado, and everyone else who has chipped-in with. Helpful comments!