I'm sure it's not just me but, over the last 5 years, as underframe detailing has been increased, issues with free running have increased? I'll cite some examples I have experienced/ read about but feel free to add any as I model (99%) transition era so may have not heard of any others
In no particular order:=
NGS - Ferryvans
Rapido - Conflat-Ps
Sonic - VEA/Vanwides
Revolution - IWA and Mk5s
It's quite disheartening to received your rolling stock and find it can't freewheel along the track, especially as when it's on the track you can't even see much of that detailing. I have to say I have never experienced such problems with my purchases of Dapol and Farish (+EFE)
What do others think?
The Revolution IWA had burrs on the axle ends - nothing to do with any extra detail.
The NGS ferry vans and Rapido Conflat Ps were fine on the pre production models, but both had issues with the full production run - again not due to the email.
My VEA are fine, any issues might be with the van wide chassis.
The issue with the MK5's is that they use inside bearings, so the underside detail isn't the issue.
The Rev's IZA's had brake shoes in line with the wheels, but they tended to rub on the wheels, so that is one example of where better detail led to problems.
Easily fixed though.
Regards,
John P
About five years ago when we were in rented accommodation I tested all of my wagons for free rolling. A considerable number did not roll well, mainly Farish, but in batches of wagons of the same kind some would roll well and others poorly. A lot was down to minute bits of flash in the wrong places, and I managed to get them all to an acceptable standard. In general, any new Farish or Dapol wagon seems to run OK. My Rapido SECR wagons don't run quite as freely, but are OK, while the 27 Conflats Ps that Steve Wright bought for James Street still don't run brilliantly despite going back for remedial work at Rapido. A lot of them are OK but a few are pigs!
I've no idea what is causing the problem, maybe ever finer models with thinner side frames and hence more flexibility to allow axles to not run as sweetly as they should?
It is a shame though....
Dave
When they first appeared, I purchased a Dapol Southern Region BY - a type of vehicle I needed for my SR parcels trains (with PMVs, CCTs, and Van Bs). It's a delightful model... until one places it on the track - the wheels are such a sloppy fit that if it completes a complete circuit of our Club's track without derailing, its a small miracle: the axles often fall out of the axleboxes between picking it up and placing on the track. I have tried placing the b****y thing in very hot, but not boiling, water in order to bend the axleboxes inwards enough to hold the axles in place. This was not a complete solution - though it has helped... The Dapol SR BY is certainly NOT free-running by any stretch of one's imagination! It's a lovely looking model, though... :hmmm:
Quote from: Cols on October 14, 2025, 12:18:29 PMWhen they first appeared, I purchased a Dapol Southern Region BY - a type of vehicle I needed for my SR parcels trains (with PMVs, CCTs, and Van Bs).
@Cols Would you happen to have a reference number for your BY as I can't track one down to have a squint at? Thanks.
oh god yeh the sonic vanwides and ngs ferry vans were very annoying!!
i broke some detailing trying to fix a vanwide.
I'm still not very happy with how some of these vans run. they are expensive so want them to be good runners, please they do look very good.
anyway i think it's the brake detailing causing the troubles on newer wagons. it's over the top. no one wants to view a wagon upside down! (unless it's a tipler!)
cheers
tim
Quote from: Newportnobby on October 14, 2025, 12:42:12 PMQuote from: Cols on October 14, 2025, 12:18:29 PMWhen they first appeared, I purchased a Dapol Southern Region BY - a type of vehicle I needed for my SR parcels trains (with PMVs, CCTs, and Van Bs).
@Cols Would you happen to have a reference number for your BY as I can't track one down to have a squint at? Thanks.
This is a Southern Railway BY - a 4-wheel passenger brake van...
https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/404.html
Dapol don't actually make one, (closest thing RTR is the Farish PLV; closest Dapol do is the CCT which has a tendency to be too free!) though there is a plastic kit for a BY which is possibly what Cols actually has?
Many kits do require a degree of accuracy and patience in assembly to achieve free-running...
Quote from: PLD on October 14, 2025, 02:00:04 PMQuote from: Newportnobby on October 14, 2025, 12:42:12 PMQuote from: Cols on October 14, 2025, 12:18:29 PMWhen they first appeared, I purchased a Dapol Southern Region BY - a type of vehicle I needed for my SR parcels trains (with PMVs, CCTs, and Van Bs).
@Cols Would you happen to have a reference number for your BY as I can't track one down to have a squint at? Thanks.
This is a Southern Railway BY - a 4-wheel passenger brake van...
https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/404.html
Dapol don't actually make one, (closest thing RTR is the Farish PLV; closest Dapol do is the CCT which has a tendency to be too free!) though there is a plastic kit for a BY which is possibly what Cols actually has?
Many kits do require a degree of accuracy and patience in assembly to achieve free-running...
Hi
I'm sure I have a Dapol BY at home as I bought the 2mm SA replacement chassis for it. Will have a look when I get home this evening but I could be mistaken as I can't find any images online of them.
https://www.2mm.org.uk/products/instruction_sheets/pdf4-743.pdf
Edit: Found an image online
https://ngauge.org.uk/dap_nonpass_van_c.php
Though its a C not a BY according to that description though it does show BY on the side.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: PaulCheffus on October 14, 2025, 02:22:35 PM870544 date=1760442132] Found an image online
https://ngauge.org.uk/dap_nonpass_van_c.php
Though its a C not a BY according to that description though it does show BY on the side.
yes - that's a CCT/Van C... As I said, those have a reputation for being too free running...
If it is one of those and the wheels are dropping out, most likely the original wheels have been changed for something on shorter axles... :hmmm:
Pretty sure the Dapol model is a BY, as it has no end doors and a guards compartment:
https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/6199/dapol_n_maunsell_brake_van_c_sr (https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/6199/dapol_n_maunsell_brake_van_c_sr)
Thanks, Chaps.
I've found one at Osborn's and ordered it (2P-012-504)
Can't have a bit of green parcels stock missing from my collection :no:
I'm sure there'll be no running issues with it
I bought a couple of the Dapol BYs when they came out, and they didn't roll at all well. I wrote to Dapol, and they gave me two replacements that did actually run OK. They didn't ask for the old ones back, and with a bit of work they now run a lot better. Just needs a lot of underframe tweaking, which is a bit annoying on a new model. They have quite thin, rather flexible, axle boxes which can move a lot, unlike the good old Peco chassis or the Farish varieties. I think this is the basic issue.
Dave
I've had issues with EFE Rail JIA wagons. The wheels bind on curves. I've found how to fix. The link takes you to my YouTube video showing how to fix.
https://youtu.be/Gku4F7Z7VQQ?si=rzoBwYjKpZqffUH9
Hi
I must be lucky then as mine runs beautifully and the axles are not lose in the axleboxes.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: EK Growler on October 14, 2025, 08:05:38 PMI've had issues with EFE Rail JIA wagons. The wheels bind on curves. I've found how to fix. The link takes you to my YouTube video showing how to fix.
https://youtu.be/Gku4F7Z7VQQ?si=rzoBwYjKpZqffUH9
Good explanation of how to fix this problem, I did the same with mine about 12mths ago, made a huge difference.
Playing Devil's Advocate, would you say that's a design fault or a track radius problem?
definitely a design problem in my view. When running them on the straight or large radius, over 750mm radius they worked absolutely wonderful, anything less and they came to a standstill.
This is less about free running wagons and more about how traction tyres can overcome binding wheelsets.
I have over 100 continental bogie grain hoppers which form the mainstay of freight operations on my Veedinghem grain terminal layout. Trains are generally between 14 and 21 wagons and the universal haulage is Kato Class 66/77. The wagons are from Artrain, Arnold, Minitrix and NME. These wagons are free rolling and fairly weighty. If a wagon starts to have a problem it is generally because one of the pinpoints on the axle has stopped aligning with the cup on the inside face of the bogie. It is detected because the loco sounds to be working harder to pull the train. After identifying the rogue wagon there is a simple fix of removing the bogie, realigning the axle and squeezing the bogie sides in a bit to grip the axle better.
A couple of weeks back I received a new Kato Class 66 in DB Climate Hero green livery. As a 1/160 Class 66 it is dwarfed by the grain hoppers just as in the real world. It has been on a running-in turn of 18 bogie hoppers which it has hauled scores of times now with no issues. I have a running-in track around the outside of the layout generally reserved for passenger trains. This is two 180 degrees turns of Kato R282 linked by two 2.5 metre straights. The 18 wagon train was previously hauled on the test circuit by an REE Modèles SNCF BB75000, so only a 4 axle loco but it managed just fine.
Today I received my Revolution Europorte Class 66. It had 45 minutes each way light engine on the test loop and was impressively smooth and quiet. The detailing and appearance are superior to the Kato model. I substituted it for the Kato loco on the 18 wagon train. But it failed to make one complete circuit without slipping to a standstill with the loco on the R282 curve and most of the train on the straight.
Of course the difference is that the Kato 66 has a traction tyre on the inner axle of each bogie, although only 90 grams in weight against 104 grams for the Revolution 66. When I put the Kato engine back on the same train, it romped away with it as usual.
When the Dapol O&K hoppers first came out, the only locos which could shift a 15 wagon train were the Kato 66s. Shimming the bogies so the flanges stopped rubbing on the underframes meant a wider range of traction could cope with them!
My layout is extremely Rule 1 so depending on my mood is can be mostly SNCF or mostly British, except that the mainstay grain operation is always continental.
Quote from: Graham on October 15, 2025, 10:37:52 PMdefinitely a design problem in my view. When running them on the straight or large radius, over 750mm radius they worked absolutely wonderful, anything less and they came to a standstill.
So... The wagons are a well designed scale replica of the prototype and run well on sensibly sized prototypical curves, however like prototype they don't cope well with excessively tight "train set" corners... That's surely a "
layout design" issue, as much as the wagon design...
Quote from: PLD on October 19, 2025, 11:18:33 PMQuote from: Graham on October 15, 2025, 10:37:52 PMdefinitely a design problem in my view. When running them on the straight or large radius, over 750mm radius they worked absolutely wonderful, anything less and they came to a standstill.
So... The wagons are a well designed scale replica of the prototype and run well on sensibly sized prototypical curves, however like prototype they don't cope well with excessively tight "train set" corners... That's surely a "layout design" issue, as much as the wagon design...
If you think a layout design with minimum radius of 750mm is a layout design problem rather than a product problem, I think you need to measure the radius of your layout/s and tell me you can get them running round ok. In old terms this is approx 2ft 6in for a radius.
Quote from: Graham on October 20, 2025, 12:25:59 AMQuote from: PLD on October 19, 2025, 11:18:33 PMQuote from: Graham on October 15, 2025, 10:37:52 PMdefinitely a design problem in my view. When running them on the straight or large radius, over 750mm radius they worked absolutely wonderful, anything less and they came to a standstill.
So... The wagons are a well designed scale replica of the prototype and run well on sensibly sized prototypical curves, however like prototype they don't cope well with excessively tight "train set" corners... That's surely a "layout design" issue, as much as the wagon design...
If you think a layout design with minimum radius of 750mm is a layout design problem rather than a product problem, I think you need to measure the radius of your layout/s and tell me you can get them running round ok. In old terms this is approx 2ft 6in for a radius.
Read carefully - I didn't say it's
solely a layout design fault... The Wagons and the layout are designed to different standards - neither "right" nor "wrong" just different and non-compatible...
I would imagine the vast majority of us do not have track curves over 750mm radius but anything that won't run round, say, 2nd radius I'd consider to have a design fault
Quote from: Newportnobby on October 20, 2025, 09:43:27 AMI would imagine the vast majority of us do not have track curves over 750mm radius but anything that won't run round, say, 2nd radius I'd consider to have a design fault
I absolutely agree with this, R2 is considered amongst pretty much all manufacturers of N Gauge UK outline models to be the minimum radius, so any manufacturer producing a model not able to operate around such curves is failing to design it to meet accepted standards - by any reasonable and logical conclusion that is a failure in design.