Although I have already built the NGS kit rendering of this, I still wantee... hopefully there will be enough expressions of interest:
https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-gresley-full-brake-bg-announced
Are others interested?
Lets see,
Colin.
I've expressed an interest in a maroon and a blue BG and a blue/grey Buffet
I have put my name down for a crimson one and a maroon one.
Not sure about getting one yet.
In some respects, given there is a kit (though now nearly out of stock?) it'd be more interesting to me if they do the steel sided ones, though there were a number of variations in the details.
Martyn
Quote from: martyn on September 14, 2025, 10:32:37 AMNot sure about getting one yet.
In some respects, given there is a kit (though now nearly out of stock?) it'd be more interesting to me if they do the steel sided ones, though there were a number of variations in the details.
Martyn
Hi Martyn,
Take a look at Isinglass range.....
https://www.isinglass-models.co.uk/store/N-Gauge-kits-c171972101
If what you want does not show in N Gauge - refer to the 4mm range, then ask if what you want can be added to the N Gauge range....
Worked for me!
Phil H
Thanks, Phil.
Martyn
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 14, 2025, 09:01:24 AMI've expressed an interest in a maroon and a blue BG and a blue/grey Buffet
Same - the BGs are definitely need for those parcels trains, and I actually saw and travelled on the blue and grey Gresley Buffets when they were still in service.
I really hope Dapol receive enough interest for these.
What I can't tell from the drawings is whether they actually plan to do the correct 8ft bogies or just re-use the 8'6" ones. Although I guess the fact I can't tell from the CAD says it's a minor issue in N anyway.
Older ones had Fox bogies originally and then ex GNR 8ft Gresley single bolster bogies but avoiding that I suspect is just a case of picking the right prototypes.
Evidently these will only be available to order direct from Dapol so there'll be no retailer discount.
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 14, 2025, 12:56:24 PMEvidently these will only be available to order direct from Dapol so there'll be no retailer discount.
But if the price of £39.95 holds firm they are still cheaper than most recent Farish releases with 15% discount applied.
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 14, 2025, 09:01:24 AMI've expressed an interest in a maroon and a blue BG and a blue/grey Buffet
Ditto, even though I have already done some modelling and built one (back in 2011) :D
Bob
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/1517-140925144827.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154915)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/1517-140925144850.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154916)
I, too, have the NGS kit of the Gresley full brake painted crimson.
I have expressed interest in the following:
- Gresley full brake - maroon
- Gresley full brake - blue
- Gresley BR blue/grey buffet
Ian
Quote from: cmason on September 14, 2025, 06:48:35 AMAlthough I have already built the NGS kit rendering of this, I still wantee... hopefully there will be enough expressions of interest:
https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-gresley-full-brake-bg-announced
Are others interested?
Lets see,
Colin.
And my expressions of interest made are:
- Gresley full brake - teak x 2 ( one of each number )
- Gresley full brake - maroon
- Gresley BR blue/grey buffet
Colin.
I model Eras 4,5 & 6 so I have expressed interest in the Full Brake in Crimson, Maroon & Blue liveries.
Quote from: Kris on September 14, 2025, 09:40:17 AMI have put my name down for a crimson one and a maroon one.
Same BG options here, and also a Blue/Grey Eastern Region buffet, the latter is not from an era I model, it is just a prototype that interests me, given what survivors the buffets were and I would love to have one.
Let's hope both make the minimum quantities needed, a case of sharing the message far and wide.
Roy
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 14, 2025, 12:56:24 PMEvidently these will only be available to order direct from Dapol so there'll be no retailer discount.
Nope, they don't envisage order volumes being high enough to make it a mainstream model available through retailers, so the only way to order one is at this price via Dapol. Given the NGS BG kit was not far off £30 and you had to make it and the maroon Gresley buffets back when first released in 2008 (I think) were £35 (yes really!) I think the prices are fair personally.
Roy
I'm somewhat baffled as page 33 in the NGS Journal 5/25 calls us to pre order these coaches yet there's no facility to do so. Expressions of interest only are being sought ???
AT TINGS Dapol very explicitly said they were seeking expressions of interest only, not orders and no cash up front is being asked for. The models will only proceed if sufficient interest is shown.
Roy
You know that, Roy. I know that, too.
Their ad in the Journal is incorrect in stating to Pre Order
Even though I built one in maroon, I want another, and 2 in carmine
Regards,
Alex
GREAT NEWS.
The Gresley Full Brake is at 73% of pre-orders needed to progress, and the Gresley RB Buffet is at 100%.
Even better news. The rebuilt RB is going to be done in BR Maroon as well as blue grey.
I received an email from Dapol this afternoon. It says:
It is coming up to three weeks since we launched the N Gauge Gresley Full Brake and Refurbished Buffet project at TINGS 2025 and invited you to express your interest in the various models available. This is our first progress report for those who have shown interest in one or more of the models. We sincerely thank each of you for your valuable feedback. We have an important detail change and an exciting new development to share.
Detail Change: Thanks to feedback from a member of the public, the running number for 2P-011-405 will be revised from E70146E to E70459E. This new running number aligns more accurately with our tooling than the original coach selection.
New Livery: Due to popular demand, we will now also be offering the refurbished Gresley Buffet in BR Maroon, with two running numbers available E9118E & S9127E.
We invite expressions of interest in this new livery, as well as all the previously available options. If you have already expressed interest in the earlier models and would like to secure this additional project, please submit a new expression of interest for this late addition and enter zero for the other models. This will help avoid any duplication of interest for a specific product code.
Project Update: We are getting very close to being able to push the button on this project and get it into the tooling shop.
If you would like to express your interest in either of the two new maroon coaches please hit the button below to take you to the expression of interest page.
https://www.dapol.co.uk/pages/expression-of-interest-for-gresley-project?
2P-011-501 - Gresley Coach BR Blue/Grey Buffet W9135E. Last one in service, to 1976. Paddington to Bristol, Hereford, Plymouth routes. Preserved at NRM. See https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5264054255
2P-011-502 - Gresley Coach BR Blue/Grey Buffet E9115E. These were seen all over, from East Anglia and the ECML to Derby, North Wales/Chester, Manchester and Glasgow.
2P-011-503 - Gresley Coach BR Maroon Buffet E9118E. These were often the only maroon coach in an otherwise blue-grey rake on the ECML, through to 1970 (at least).
2P-011-504 - Gresley Coach BR Maroon Buffet S9127E. One of six used on SR boat trains (and other steam/diesel hauled trains) 1966-1968 to replace Mk 1 RBs which were being converted to buffets for the 4-REP EMUs. See https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/48158148576
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/155/1517-031025152604.png) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=155235)
That's a good news Friday :claphappy:
It is, indeed, good news but there seems to be a duplication of item 2P-011-503 :hmmm:
Quote from: Newportnobby on October 03, 2025, 04:09:08 PMIt is, indeed, good news but there seems to be a duplication of item 2P-011-503 :hmmm:
Just a cut and paste error on my part. Everything below the Dapol link I have added to help people see what a great choice of coach this is. They were seen on every region (and they were never painted SR green).
Bob
PS You need one, Mick! Get a maroon one for an inter-regional rake!
I have 9 carmine & cream Gresleys inc buffet 2P-011-351, and 7 maroon Gresleys inc buffet 2P-011-373 all with E prefix (on the basis they ran 'proper' trains across the Varsity Line) so for the refurbished one, yes, I'll be going for the W prefix version
Quote from: Newportnobby on October 03, 2025, 04:32:49 PMI have 9 carmine & cream Gresleys inc buffet 2P-011-351, and 7 maroon Gresleys inc buffet 2P-011-373 all with E prefix (on the basis they ran 'proper' trains across the Varsity Line) so for the refurbished one, yes, I'll be going for the W prefix version
OMG Mick, that's in Blue/Grey. have you lost your marble? You'll be buying Blue/grey Mk 1s and Westerns next.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinfoulger/49713280848
https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/15749276346
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55063081@N08/22972944700
https://www.flickr.com/photos/suthensofty/8454621882
He he he
You're behind the times, Bob :telloff:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/53692417006_c57792a83e_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pNBEXG)Class 52 Western Duke with train on Heatherley (https://flic.kr/p/2pNBEXG) by Mick Hollyoake (https://www.flickr.com/photos/182878845@N04/), on Flickr
Woah! I need to sit down. :o
I've put a photo of, I think, E9115E at Liverpool street in another thread on the Forum.
It's in the gallery, but I can try and re post it if anyone is interested. Date is uncertain, but probably mid 70s? It was taken on a 35mm camera which I didn't get until late 1974, so it's after that.
Marty
Was the refurbished Buffet a combination brake/buffet? :dunce:
Quote from: martyn on October 03, 2025, 05:34:23 PMI've put a photo of, I think, E9115E at Liverpool street in another thread on the Forum.
This thread has more information (including Martyn's photo) and some good links to ex-LNER buffet cars:
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=54319.msg717630#msg717630
Ian
Slightly surprised that the BG is only at 73% but then I guess we don't know how many they need to produce v's the Buffet.
I am not going to add to my orders for either, even noting that the buffet is now also available in BR Maroon (I have two of the existing ones in that livery that correctly represent the steam era) for some obscure "Rule 1" :hmmm: reason it is the blue-grey one I am after just because it was such a survivor...
Quote from: Newportnobby on October 03, 2025, 05:37:16 PMWas the refurbished Buffet a combination brake/buffet? :dunce:
Nope. They just did away with a lot of window glass behind the counter so they could do more British Rail sandwiches and toasties, and stack stuff in cupboards along the back of the buffet bar. More like a typical BR Mk 1 buffet layout. The roof vents were added to and improved too. One side (the public side of the coach) didn't change apart from white out of the last two windows. I would imagine that Dapol would reuse the internal layout moulding, because I don't think the seating changed much at all.
Thanks. It's just that in the pic by robertcwp in your reply #24 the buffet is, unusually, the last coach in the train and looks somewhat like a brake. Having said that, the train could well have been split at Reading making it the last coach in the rake
I've just been chatting with Adam at Dapol
@Adam1701D and the buffet roofs are remaining as per the original moulding. The modified buffet roofs differ a little between buffet cars but basically there were larger vents fitted over the passenger seating area and additional vents added to the counter end of the buffet car.
I don't think this is going to stop anyone from getting a model though.
When I did my modification to the original model in 2011 I simply added some plasticard shapes that looked a bit like vents, and brush painted the roof.
You can see what is involved in the entire modification process in this old RM article from 2005.
HTH
Bob
I have expressed interest in one of each livery for both the full brake and the buffet. I'm going to be going bankrupt if they all come out at once!
Quote from: Bob G on October 04, 2025, 12:42:33 PMI've just been chatting with Adam at Dapol @Adam1701D and the buffet roofs are remaining as per the original moulding. The modified buffet roofs differ a little between buffet cars but basically there were larger vents fitted over the passenger seating area and additional vents added to the counter end of the buffet car.
I don't think this is going to stop anyone from getting a model though.
When I did my modification to the original model in 2011 I simply added some plasticard shapes that looked a bit like vents, and brush painted the roof.
You can see what is involved in the entire modification process in this old RM article from 2005.
HTH
Bob
Quite a significant difference in the roof vent layout on the modified coaches and while I do understand why, for what is perceived as a model that is a bit "niche" with a limited market, the cost of tooling a new roof isn't considered viable, it is still a bit of a shame. However it won't put me off buying one and like you say
@Bob G probably won't the vast majority of people either.
Roy
Going ahead...
https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-gresley-full-brake-bg-refurbished-buffet-update-2-0
Yeehah! :claphappy:
I'm in for 2 brakes and 1 buffet as soon as we can pre order
Dapol have obviously been listening and taking note from "The Crowd Funding People" taking expressions of interest forward in a pragmatic manner by a major manufacturer obviously take a leap of faith.
I do hope this works out well and we all get the models and livery we request.
Perhaps this is the start of something new and we can perhaps look forward to some other future "experiments" in securing interest in less well known or mainstream models.
Well done DAPOL.
GE
Looks like they are going ahead with the project and we should have some EPs to look at before Christmas! :claphappy:
what year did the blue / grey buffet last run in revenue service? i know probably mid 70s - just wondered about the exact date (and service).
also what year did this style of gresley wooden body full brake stay in use on parcels and mail?
well done dapol on producing these items!
I have only researched the rebuilt Buffets, but here goes:
E9115E was seen in maroon at Kings Cross in an otherwise blue grey rake in 1970.
S9117E was seen in maroon at Exeter Central in a mixed rake of blue grey, maroon and green in 1968.
E9115E was seen in blue grey at Peterborough in 1976.
E9123E was seen in blue grey at Newcastle in 1968.
E9124E was seen withdrawn in blue grey at Loughborough (GCR) in 1976.
E9128E was seen in blue grey at Leeds and Glasgow in 1975.
E9131E was seen in blue grey at Manchester in 1976.
E9135E was seen in blue grey at Stevenage in 1967.
E9135E was seen in blue grey at Bristol TM in 1970.
E9135E was seen in blue grey at Exeter and Reading in 1975.
E9135E was seen in blue grey at Paddington, Exeter, and Plymouth in 1976.
E9135E was seen in blue grey at York in March 1977, en route to preservation.
E9135E was the last surviving Gresley Buffet in revenue use, withdrawn in February 1977.
They ran on the Southern on boat trains to Southampton and Weymouth, and latterly on Waterloo-Exeter services, in maroon livery, ca. 1966-68. They were brought over from the eastern region to replace Mk 1 RBs on Boat Trains which had been taken out of service to be converted to 4-REP buffets for the Bournemouth electrification (1967).
They ran on the Midland and Eastern in blue-grey through to 1976, and on the Western, E9135E survived until 1977.
HTH
Bob
thanks bob!
great research!
I had seen a picture of a buffet in the harwich boat train before.
side note - when did the manchester to harwich train last run?
anyway I think I'll order a buffet. something different to run with mk1s.
cheers
tin
The rebuilt buffets survived about as long as the Gresley full brakes, which was also 1977.
A good year for music too.
Quote from: Bob G on October 30, 2025, 08:30:03 AMThe rebuilt buffets survived about as long as the Gresley full brakes, which was also 1977.
A good year for music too.
Last sentence extremely debatable but not here :hmmm:
I'm more a fan of 1976 music, I must say. Definitely a pre punk prog rocker
Definitely a good year for music from my perspective, bands like Blondie, Queen, The Eagles etc etc etc....plus the beginnings of Punk. Friars in Aylesbury the town close to my childhood home hosted many of the "big" bands during the period, many reminisce - sadly I was just too young to go at that point.
:sleep:
sadly this thread has gone "OFF TOPIC"
Quote from: GlenEglise on October 30, 2025, 07:11:28 PM:sleep:
sadly this thread has gone "OFF TOPIC"
It has to an extent true, but the relevance is what was happening in the era the last examples were in mainline traffic which was quite late. Who would have thought that the last Gresley buffets would still be in traffic during the formative years of Punk Rock!
I suppose many a conversation goes "off-piste" at times, and let's face it, if we were collectively having this one as a group face to face in the pub, it would likely deviate from the core topic many times - curly BR sandwich anyone?
Roy
Quote from: Roy L S on October 30, 2025, 07:43:41 PMQuote from: GlenEglise on October 30, 2025, 07:11:28 PMsadly this thread has gone "OFF TOPIC"
It has to an extent true, but the relevance is what was happening in the era the last examples were in mainline traffic which was quite late. Who would have thought that the last Gresley buffets would still be in traffic during the formative years of Punk Rock!
Thank you for saying that so eloquently.
As the Stranglers said in 1977
"I can think of a lot worse places to be [than this forum]
Like down in the streets or down in the sewer
Or even on the end of a skewer"
Bob :beers:
Quote from: Roy L S on October 04, 2025, 06:33:36 PMQuite a significant difference in the roof vent layout
Although presumably not beyond a little modelling effort to correct. And, no doubt, someone can produce appropriate correct 3D printed vents to glue in place.
Quote from: Bazza on October 30, 2025, 08:47:27 PMQuote from: Roy L S on October 04, 2025, 06:33:36 PMQuite a significant difference in the roof vent layout
Although presumably not beyond a little modelling effort to correct. And, no doubt, someone can produce appropriate correct 3D printed vents to glue in place.
As I said in post #33 above, a bit of plasticard works wonders, but you are correct, that's not a perfect solution. I appended the mods that could be done on that post also, to do a proper job.
Oh and did I say that the roofs were probably subtly different on each conversion :smiley-laughing:
It's a minefield. But it can be done to whatever degree you want to. You just need a friend willing to design a replacement roof.
Bob
If I remember correctly, the Dapol Gresley 61'6" stock has an error in the bogie centre to centre measurement (too short). (Minitrix apparently got this right.)
Will these new Buffet Cars and BGs have the correct 43' centre to centre measurement?
Just wondering... or is an error being perpetuated..?
Quote from: Cols on November 21, 2025, 03:38:25 PMIf I remember correctly, the Dapol Gresley 61'6" stock has an error in the bogie centre to centre measurement (too short). (Minitrix apparently got this right.)
Will these new Buffet Cars and BGs have the correct 43' centre to centre measurement?
Just wondering... or is an error being perpetuated..?
I believe (others can step in here) the first batch was the worst with the bogies about 2mm inward of the correct positions. Later batches corrected the error to a degree but still about 1mm off. As far as I am aware Dapol will be using existing tooling for the underframes of these models.
Speaking for myself, having many Dapol Gresleys (and indeed some maroon Minitrix ones) it is a compromise I am happy to live with on these newly announced models and isn't all that visible except on the very first batch which do look a tad "tippy-toe".
I am wondering when we will get a further update...
Roy
Quote from: Cols on November 21, 2025, 03:38:25 PMIf I remember correctly, the Dapol Gresley 61'6" stock has an error in the bogie centre to centre measurement (too short). (Minitrix apparently got this right.)
Will these new Buffet Cars and BGs have the correct 43' centre to centre measurement?
Just wondering... or is an error being perpetuated..?
It's not an error though is it? It's a manufacturing compromise - every model has them.
It even happens in larger scales, but people just seem to pick their pet peeves and ignore others.
Quote from: Bingley Hall on November 23, 2025, 11:56:40 PMQuote from: Cols on November 21, 2025, 03:38:25 PMWill these new Buffet Cars and BGs have the correct 43' centre to centre measurement?
It's not an error though is it? It's a manufacturing compromise - every model has them.
It even happens in larger scales, but people just seem to pick their pet peeves and ignore others.
The "compromise" in the original maroon batch was simply awful in appearance. It was done to achieve the installation of a close coupling mechanism.
From batch 2 onwards the "compromise" was reduced by having a large notched recess in the bogies to allow the bogie centres to move out to (almost) where they ought to have been placed.
It's no different from the bogies themselves. Every manufacturer's rendition of Gresley bogies looks different too. Same as different eras of design of BR's B1 bogies and B4 bogies. And what about all the gubbins that is underneath a coach. Every manufacturer "compromises" on what they model underneath versus cost of production.
Personally I'm more worried about whether the model captures the "look" of the prototype or not. So Yes I did notice the inset bogies of the original batch 1 issue, but I'm OK with batch 2 onwards.
Now here's the rub. Today's question, if you like.
If I said I think you'll find that the separately molded wire roof drains (or whatever they are) at one end of the roof are on the wrong end of the buffet car, firstly, is that true or false? And if it is true, how much does that bother you?
Bob G
Quote from: Bob G on November 24, 2025, 08:26:09 AMIf I said I think you'll find that the separately molded wire roof drains (or whatever they are) at one end of the roof are on the wrong end of the buffet car, firstly, is that true or false? And if it is true, how much does that bother you?
I'd say the roof that's shown on the current CAD is a copy and paste from the original release of the Gresley buffet car that doesn't have the changes made to the ventilator pattern as seen on the later diagram/build that survived into blue/grey livery.
I don't believe that Dapol have said if they're also re-tooling the roof.
It's all compromises - the HST and loco hauled HSTs share a roof in Dapol's world when in 1:1 scale they were different and the Mk3 buffet is neither an HST or loco hauled vehicle.
Dapol should have done better with the bogie positioning on the initial batch of Gresleys - they proved on the later runs that they were capable. As they've got the Collett's and Maunsell's right they've clearly improved.
I do wonder if we'll see any more coach types from Dapol - Mk2b/c/d/pullmansm Mk4 and plenty of non-corridor big four types to have a go at.
Quote from: Steven B on November 24, 2025, 09:53:36 AMQuote from: Bob G on November 24, 2025, 08:26:09 AMIf I said I think you'll find that the separately molded wire roof drains (or whatever they are) at one end of the roof are on the wrong end of the buffet car, firstly, is that true or false? And if it is true, how much does that bother you?
I don't believe that Dapol have said if they're also re-tooling the roof.
They have said they are not retooling the roof. I think that the roof drain pipes (whatever they are) are on the wrong end, based on photos. But who am I but a southern modeller!
Jeez, All I can say is 'ignorance is bliss'
Face? Bovvered? :no:
rivet rivet
Quote from: Newportnobby on November 24, 2025, 11:14:02 AMJeez, All I can say is 'ignorance is bliss'
Face? Bovvered? :no:
The roof looks very different on the refurbished buffets, and obviously in an ideal world it would be nice for a correct one to be tooled. However this very welcome project was always going to be a relatively marginal one from a viability perspective so I totally get why they haven't felt able to do so. For those who are unhappy it is a chance to break out the plastikard, scalpel and files and do some modelling, personally I am unlikely to bother!
Roy
Exactly, Roy. If it offends so much just don't buy it ::)
Quote from: Newportnobby on November 24, 2025, 12:40:28 PMExactly, Roy. If it offends so much just don't buy it ::)
Sorry if my sarcasm offends.
I've been spending too long on RM Web.
Bob G (who made a more detailed roof on his own rebuilt Gresley buffet in 2011, when he was a proper modeller!)
As I said 'ignorance is bliss'
I admire and respect your knowledge but am just happy to have one to run with my blue/grey rake
Quote from: Newportnobby on November 24, 2025, 01:19:19 PMAs I said 'ignorance is bliss'
I admire and respect your knowledge but am just happy to have one to run with my blue/grey rake
That knowledge is limited to what I'm interested in!
I used to work to the consultant's rule book. Expert on Day 2. So long as you are a couple of pages ahead of your client, all is well :smiley-laughing:
Bob
Quote from: Newportnobby on November 24, 2025, 01:19:19 PMAs I said 'ignorance is bliss'
I admire and respect your knowledge but am just happy to have one to run with my blue/grey rake
Agreed. The thing is I can remember the Gresley buffet in blue & grey on the Western region. It was quite distinctive and left an impression that I would like to include in my layout. I can remember the sides and the bogies but I can't remember anything about the roof other than it had one. I won't be spending ages checking the model against photos of the real thing. So long as it fits in with my memory I shall be happy.
@Adam1701D Can I ask what the ordering process will be? Will you be asking for deposits? Having expressed an interest in 2 x BGs and 1 x buffet, I'll not want to miss out
TIA