How many were ever made ?
How many are still out there--in one form or another ?
Ive got 8 of them
I've no idea of actual numbers, but I often see 2nd hand ones for sale at exhibitions.
Quote from: Bigmac on August 22, 2025, 06:01:07 PMHow many were ever made ?
How many are still out there--in one form or another ?
Ive got 8 of them
Greedy so-and-so - I only have three ;)
They must have been made in reasonably large numbers. Peco also must have ordered a lot of spares - now with Peters Spares. Some spare parts numbered in the hundreds.
The frequency with which they turn up on ebay also seems to indicate they're not rare.
The jubilee was a lovely loco in its day - definitely the Rolls Royce of British N in the 1970s. It's great that so many have lasted well despite the weakness of the motor and the tendency for tender frames to go brittle or the metal block to blow and crack the bodyshell. With the advent of coreless motor kits the motor issue isn't such a concern now.
Since I moved from British to European N and sold off my original fleet in the early 80s, I've re-acquired two or three for sentimental reasons :)
An antiques/ second hand shop dealing mainly in toys near me had five for sale in the shop window last week...
Martyn
I have one and so does the club I'm a member of. I converted both to coreless using a 1015 motor+worm from Tramfabriek and a sleeve which was 3D printed by a club member. Both are DCC fitted and run regularly. I purchased a new tender chassis for mine from Peter's Spares; pity new wheel sets are not available as well.
Mine got hacked to a Lord Nelson class as did a Scot, both had hacked BHE N15 tenders with Union Mills drive
I got one for old time's sake
I have two, "Kolhapur" and "Bellerophron" both expertly repainted for me into BR lined green livery in the late 1990s by the sadly now late Fred Hempsall and they look exquisite. A mystery why Peco never produced the loco in BR green, I have heard stories (unconfirmed) that livery samples were produced but it was considered too expensive to produce it fully lined out, not sure if that is true.
Made by Rivarossi in Italy for Peco, in terms on numbers, as I understand it there were four batches, all black ones with the product reference NL21 the original LMS ones (5713 "Renown") with gear coupled loco driving wheels made around 1969, the "Mark 3" produced 1977/8 without gear coupled drivers (relying on rods) which had an optional double chimney, unnumbered with six choices of name plus "Silver Jubilee" transfers (not sure where the Mark 2 went :hmmm:). A further batch LMS black Mk3s in cardboard box (earlier ones had a plastic jewel case) in the early 80s alongside the LMS maroon NL22.
So, many thousands made over the years but none for over 40. In my opinion it remained the best RTR British outline steam loco right up until the early "noughties" and the introduction of the Farish V2 but held it's own even against that. It wasn't until the first of the new tender driven DCC ready Bachmann Farish locos, ironically also a Jubilee, that in my opinion it was finally surpassed.
I am sure there remain thousands still in use and enjoyed on many layouts. I admit to having a stash of new spares of all the vulnerable bits (except the unobtainable motor) which I acquired some years ago to keep mine running, but in truth I rarely do and have kept them more for nostalgic/sentimental reason.
Roy
Loads I'm sure. They're pretty unbreakable.
I remember visiting Pecorama after they'd stopped selling the 2251's and was surprised to see a Jubilee still running around. I asked the guy who was servicing locos about it and he admitted it was a bit like Triggers broom.
He think it had probably done something like half a million miles over the years and had to change a wheelset once because it had cut one of the wheels in half!
I asked if the 2251's would last as long. He quietly shook his head 8)
Deleted as posted twice
I have several Black ones an original Maroon and a repainted Maroon I also have what some people think is an original Green one it has been examined by some very well know N Gauge experts and they cant be 100% sure BUT they have all said it does look genuine ,its not lined out fully but looks good ,I will try and see if all of them still run ,they are at the back of a cupboard in my bedroom and there's a ton of stuff to move to get to them .
Like someone on here has said Its believed that Peco did a test run of six but then dropped the idea ,I found this one years ago at a Show at The Maltings in Farnham on a Charity trade stand .
If I remember I paid £30 for it ,it was make an offer price and it was for `Charity .
Bob
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on August 23, 2025, 08:25:49 AMI have several Black ones an original Maroon and a repainted Maroon I also have what some people think is an original Green one it has been examined by some very well know N Gauge experts and they cant be 100% sure BUT they have all said it does look genuine ,its not lined out fully but looks good ,I will try and see if all of them still run ,they are at the back of a cupboard in my bedroom and there's a ton of stuff to move to get to them .
Like someone on here has said Its believed that Peco did a test run of six but then dropped the idea ,I found this one years ago at a Show at The Maltings in Farnham on a Charity trade stand .
If I remember I paid £30 for it ,it was make an offer price and it was for `Charity .
Bob
Hi Bob
It is an absolute 100% fact that the loco was never produced or released in BR green and no product reference exists for one. If you have a green one it is either (and most likely) a professional repaint of which there are many to different standards, and indeed my own Jubilees repainted by Fred have as good if not better than factory quality finish.
Or (and far less likely but admittedly still possible) is that it one of the rumoured green livery samples prepared for the never to be made green livery, and that the lining is simplified certainly adds some credence to that. It would be really interesting (if you get a chance to dig it out) to see a picture of it.
Roy
In the 2/2020 edition of the N Gauge Journal there is an article entitled 'Commemorating the Peco Jubilee' by Alan Cumming, Gideon Knowles, and Neale Monks.
Contributors to the article included Michael Pritchard (Chairman of Peco) and Colin Heard (Union Mills and previously with Peco).
Some interesting information from this article is as follows:
1. Peco originally ordered 5,000 Jubilee models from Rivarossi.
2. The model was in production until 1985 (but no further information on total quantities produced).
3. The LMS black models were painted by Rivarossi.
4. The LMS crimson models were painted by Peco in their Beer facility.
5. No BR green models were ever produced by Peco. Apparently, the lining and other decorations were too complex to achieve the standard that Peco wanted in the available budget.
6. More black models were produced than crimson (but no information given on quantities).
7. The Jubilee was intended be the forerunner of a series of N gauge locomotives that never came to fruition. (The Peco Collet 2251 0-6-0 came around much later).
Ian (No Peco Jubilees, if anyone is keeping count).
Thanks Ian,
I have just re-read the article (in my saved copy of that NGS Journal issue). Most interesting indeed. I haven't got a Peco one either but have one of the newer Farish ones!
Tim
I have an example of "Renown", in original condition but in a Rivarossi box, that I bought in Switzerland!
I have a Peco Jubilee that has been turned into a GWR County , two crankshaft pins are missing.
I bought this early this year and put in a new motor supplied from Peter`s Spares.
Tony.
Quote from: Tonye on August 24, 2025, 03:43:02 PMI have a Peco Jubilee that has been turned into a GWR County , two crankshaft pins are missing.
I bought this early this year and put in a new motor supplied from Peter`s Spares.
Tony.
Do you mean a coreless ?
Quote from: Tonye on August 24, 2025, 03:43:02 PMI have a Peco Jubilee that has been turned into a GWR County , two crankshaft pins are missing.
I bought this early this year and put in a new motor supplied from Peter`s Spares.
Tony.
Worth checking to see if it is an early Jubilee from the first batch with driving wheels coupled by gears between the frames (turn upside down to check) if it is, then it only actually has the rods connected to centre and rear driving wheels (the rear pin sit in an open ended fork). The front end of the coupling rod has an impression of a pin which is stamped in it, but isn't connected to the wheels and relies totally on the gear-coupling to keep the front wheels in synch..
Regards
Roy
The Jubilee has a coreless motor , fitted in quite nicely .
The wheels are all gear driven and the coupling rods are not connected to the driving wheels under the cab.
The loco does run well.
Tony.
Quote from: Tonye on August 25, 2025, 09:49:04 AMThe Jubilee has a coreless motor , fitted in quite nicely .
The wheels are all gear driven and the coupling rods are not connected to the driving wheels under the cab.
The loco does run well.
Tony.
is the coreless drive quieter than the original ?
I need to do several--either dead or very noisy.
Quote from: Tonye on August 25, 2025, 09:49:04 AMThe Jubilee has a coreless motor , fitted in quite nicely .
The wheels are all gear driven and the coupling rods are not connected to the driving wheels under the cab.
The loco does run well.
Tony.
Only the first batch of Jubliees had the driving wheels gear-coupled, later ones did not, relying on rods alone. Yes, apologies my memory is obviously fallible, it is the rear-set of driving wheels that have no crankpins and rely on the gears alone to keep them in synch, the ones at the front go into the "forked" section of the rod, presumably to allow some movement to compensate for "slop" in the gears.
I have heard good things about coreless conversions, but never seen one personally, also, although requiring hardwiring and a bit of filing of the tender weight to make room, they appear quite straightforward to convert to DCC.
Roy
Quote from: Roy L S on August 25, 2025, 11:54:39 AMQuote from: Tonye on August 25, 2025, 09:49:04 AMThe Jubilee has a coreless motor , fitted in quite nicely .
The wheels are all gear driven and the coupling rods are not connected to the driving wheels under the cab.
The loco does run well.
Tony.
Only the first batch of Jubliees had the driving wheels gear-coupled, later ones did not, relying on rods alone. Yes, apologies my memory is obviously fallible, it is the rear-set of driving wheels that have no crankpins and rely on the gears alone to keep them in synch, the ones at the front go into the "forked" section of the rod, presumably to allow some movement to compensate for "slop" in the gears.
I have heard good things about coreless conversions, but never seen one personally, also, although requiring hardwiring and a bit of filing of the tender weight to make room, they appear quite straightforward to convert to DCC.
Roy
my main concern is fitting the worm at the correct distance on the shaft.
the only coreless conversion ive done is the TFK one to a minitrix dock tank--i fitted the worm too low i think and although smooth and quiet in forward--it hops up leans over and grinds along in reverse. Looks ridiculous.
Quote from: Bigmac on August 25, 2025, 02:31:17 PMmy main concern is fitting the worm at the correct distance on the shaft.
I guess it depends how the kit deals with this part of the process? Do you get a new worm to fit or do you have to remove and re-use the old worm? Does it use a shaft adapter sleeve?
Just go slowly and gradually tap/press the worm onto the shaft a fraction at a time, keep re-checking until it's in the correct position.
Quotethe only coreless conversion ive done is the TFK one to a minitrix dock tank--i fitted the worm too low i think and although smooth and quiet in forward--it hops up leans over and grinds along in reverse. Looks ridiculous.
Too low as in it's catching the rail tops or something? Or is the motor not fitted centrally? The old Minitrix dock Tank / T3 mechanism was known for the axle bearings wearing to the point where the gear meshing became sloppy and the rear axle became wobbly, this was especially noticeable in reverse.
Quote from: ntpntpntp on August 25, 2025, 02:46:39 PMQuote from: Bigmac on August 25, 2025, 02:31:17 PMmy main concern is fitting the worm at the correct distance on the shaft.
I guess it depends how the kit deals with this part of the process? Do you get a new worm to fit or do you have to remove and re-use the old worm? Does it use a shaft adapter sleeve?
Just go slowly and gradually tap/press the worm onto the shaft a fraction at a time, keep re-checking until it's in the correct position.
Quotethe only coreless conversion ive done is the TFK one to a minitrix dock tank--i fitted the worm too low i think and although smooth and quiet in forward--it hops up leans over and grinds along in reverse. Looks ridiculous.
Too low as in it's catching the rail tops or something? Or is the motor not fitted centrally? The old Minitrix dock Tank / T3 mechanism was known for the axle bearings wearing to the point where the gear meshing became sloppy and the rear axle became wobbly, this was especially noticeable in reverse.
Too much free play in the motor output shaft between it and the worm . No idea where the worm needs to fit so I guessed it .. wrong
i'm hoping to load pics of a couple of green Jubilees i bought --very reasonably--on ebay. Both were "non runners"--but luckily they run fine. I can only think the sellers didnt realise the locos and tenders must be clipped together to work !
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/thumb_847_25_08_25_7_08_42_154433573.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=154434)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/thumb_847_25_08_25_7_08_41_1544322163.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=154433)
apologies they are sideways--but i must applaud the talented modellers who painted and lined them. Was it anyone on here ?
Quote from: Bigmac on August 25, 2025, 07:58:26 PMapologies they are sideways
Usually I'd edit and rotate etc. before uploading. However you can do it to your uploaded image.
Find the image in your gallery. Edit it, then use the Customise Image "Add effects/Crop image" link and that will open a new window where you'll find there's a "Transform" button and then a "Rotate" button. Rotate the image then "Apply" and "Save" it.
I just tried it on one of my images and it worked :)
1: Edit the existing image
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/medium_5885-250825204129-154442671.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=154443)
2: Add effects
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/medium_5885-250825204129-1544401361.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=154442)
3: Transform
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/medium_5885-250825204129-154443793.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=154444)
4: Rotate
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/medium_5885-250825204129-1544451206.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=154446)
5: Apply
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/medium_5885-250825204129-1544441830.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=154445)
6: Save
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/medium_5885-250825204129-154445247.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=154447)
7: Done!
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/medium_5885-250825204130-154447563.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=154448)