Brother Rob and myself recently enjoyed a holiday in France. Although it wasn't a total trainfest there was quite a bit of railway interest so I'm writing about it here.
Neither of us knows much about railways outside of the UK or USA, so I apologise in advance if information is sparse or just plain wrong.
The trip started with a taxi ride to Bedford Station. We were travelling on Interrail passes which we had never used before and were a little nervous that we were using them correctly. Happily there was no difficulty and the cheery lady on the gate waved us through. There was a train to London and beyond waiting at platform 1, so we climbed aboard and were soon on our way to St Pancras.
Having escalated from the suburban platforms we made our way to the Eurostar terminal. Here there was an airport style baggage check, although you don't have to take your shoes off. The conveyor appeared bit more substantial than those at airports, which is not surprising when you see the amount of luggage some folk take. We had one fairly modest suitcase each and found them to be a nuisance at times.
Next came UK passport control followed directly by French passport control. So here we were, British citizens, geographically in the capital of our nation and hence surely subject to English law. Yet we had been accepted into the French Republic, so presumably subject to French law. I don't know the answer to this conundrum, but by behaving unobtrusively and following the instructions of Eurostar staff we managed to avoid an international incident.
At around 20 minutes before departure time we were allowed up the ramp to find our reserved seats and stash our luggage. There are racks at the ends of the coaches and more above the seats which were capacious enough to accept our cases.
Soon we were on our way and passed under the Thames into Kent. Kent - apples, cherries, hops, and women or so the Pickwick Papers inform us. I saw some hop gardens. I suppose I must have seen some women, but they were too far off or through the windows of buildings. As for apples or cherries I have no idea.
Shortly after passing Ashford the train ran into another tunnel which was rather longer than the one under the Thames but when when we burst out into the sunshine once more it was clear that we were crossing the vasty fields of France. It wasn't all that long before we were passing housing estates and industrial or commercial buildings and then train 9018 drew to a halt at Paris Gare du Nord. The journey had taken just two and a half hours from St Pancras, although three and a half hours of our day had been consumed due to the time difference.
We stepped down onto the platform (a long way down: French platforms are lower than ours). Having passed French passport control in London, we were free to walk straight out onto Place Napoléon III but couldn't do this without being twice bothered by men offering taxi rides. I understand that anyone who does this is a scammer. There are plenty of marked cabs outside.
Happily, we had no need of a driver, be he saint or sinner, because our hotel was but a short walk down one of the roads opposite the station.
I'll tell you about the hotel next time, and promise to include some pictures.
Quote from: Ali Smith on August 12, 2025, 10:48:25 AMNext came UK passport control followed directly by French passport control. So here we were, British citizens, geographically in the capital of our nation and hence surely subject to English law. Yet we had been accepted into the French Republic, so presumably subject to French law. I don't know the answer to this conundrum, but by behaving unobtrusively and following the instructions of Eurostar staff we managed to avoid an international incident.
I believe it's the same the 'other side' but reversed i.e. French then UK passport control, and that the last one you passed through dictates whose law you come under :hmmm:
Good job you didn't want to go to a sales desk to buy another ticket at Gare du Mort. Last time we did that, we queued for ages to get a Metro pass. Got to the window, and after a suitably Gallic shrug, a sign went up "Fermé pour le déjeuner". I think we walked instead, muttering SNCF or something similar.
Funny how you can always remember those irritations.
Bob
Freudian slip.
That's like a single slip with a preferred direction.
Quote from: Bob G on August 12, 2025, 12:13:40 PMGood job you didn't want to go to a sales desk to buy another ticket at Gare du Mort. Last time we did that, we queued for ages to get a Metro pass. Got to the window, and after a suitably Gallic shrug, a sign went up "Fermé pour le déjeuner". I think we walked instead, muttering SNCF or something similar.
You can buy passes for the Paris metro in the buffet car on board the train
You can also buy london transport oyster cards on trains en route for London
There are machines that will sell you a Navigo card and charge it up with tickets for various forms of transport at Gare du Nord. We bought cards and 'bus credits using one of these. They are right by the ticket window. Bob doesn't say how long ago his visit was, I get the impression that systems and rules are changing all the time with RATP.
Quote from: Ali Smith on August 12, 2025, 03:31:01 PMThere are machines that will sell you a Navigo card and charge it up with tickets for various forms of transport. We bought cards and 'bus credits using one of these. They are right by the
ticket window. Bob doesn't say how long ago his visit was, I get the impression that systems and rules are changing all the time with RATP.
It was ages ago. can't even remember when, but in the 2000s. We saw Matthew Horne (Gavin of Gavin and Stacey) in the bar on Eurostar, and Frank Skinner (still in his Mac) in the Louvre.
A short walk down down Rue de Saint-Quentin will bring you to the Hôtel Whistler on the left. This was to be our home for the night. On entering, the reception desk is right in front of you. Projected on the wall behind the desk is a cab ride video. We were informed our room wasn't ready yet (it was around 2pm and check in wasn't until three so no complaints there) but we could have a coffee (no charge) and perhaps go for a walk. Our cases would be stored in the baggage room. The coffee machine is located in the area where a buffet breakfast is provided in the morning. Also in this area is a model railway track suspended from the ceiling. Circling this is an HO train. The coaches look to me to be CIWL stock such as Hercule Poirot might have solved his most famous case whilst travelling on. The engine is a bo-bo electric in grey and orange lettered SNCF. I imagine there used to be an appropriate steam engine but when it failed it somebody was sent out to buy a replacement and got this. The screen below the track is the live departure board for Gare du Nord, not just decoration.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-130825123700.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154246)
By now I was beginning to suspect that the hotel was not, as I had at first supposed, named after James Mc Neil Whistler, Rex Whistler or anybody else of that name.
Before we had finished our coffee we were informed that our room was ready and that our cases were already there.
We made our way up to our room, admiring a photomural of what was probably a Canadian, certainly North American, steam engine in the lift. The corridor, and the room doors, were papered to resemble travel trunks. The room itself had the furniture finished to resemble more trunks and was very small. The bathroom, however was not so cramped with a washbasin that I imagine you could bath a baby in and a very good shower.
Back in the sixties (I think) Paris strangled itself with a ring road called the Boulevard Périphérique. Inside is Paris proper, outside are the banlieus, or places of banishment.
AS inside the 'Périph' can't get any bigger, everything there has to get smaller or dearer or both. This applies to hotel rooms as much as anything else.
On the plus side, our view was of the street rather than les poubelles(the dustbins; I just like the word). Here's a picture I took in the evening.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-130825130037.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154247)
The building across the end of the road is a small part of the Gare du Nord.
The next day we were moving on. There was no time to do the Louvre, Notre Dame, Montmartre or even our local brewery's Parisian outpost "The Bombardier" (near the Pantheon) so we did the short walk to Gare de l'Est from whence we were to travel. Having satisfied ourselves that we knew the way (its not much harder than getting to King's Cross from St P.) we bimbled down to Canal Saint-Martin which we had heard is a pleasant and restful spot and not too far off.
On the way we saw this Hector Guimard designed Metro entrance.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-130825131531.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154248)
And this work, I'm not sure whether to call it graffiti or a mural.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-130825131853.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154249)
I don't really approve of graffiti, but I don't see how a work of this scale could be created unless the building's owner commissioned it or at least acquiesced to it's creation.
Hopefully there is more to come Ali?
Tim
Keep the story coming.
Sounds like a fascinating expedition.
Welcome to la belle France ! Paris, like any capital has its upsides and downsides. My young nephew arrives here tomorrow and I'll be taking him to see an exhibition on the Berlin Wall at the Trocadero before taking the train down to the capital of the Gauls (Lyon) where we will experience the splendours of that magnificent city. Enjoy your visit !
Kevin
We reached the canal and walked south alongside it. It was peaceful and the water cooled the air a little. We soon spotted this group of buildings which appealed to me. I don't know if your chosen device will allow you to read it, but the lettering on the arc-roofed building reads "Exacompta Clairefontaine" which meant nothing to me. A bit of internettery revealed that they are stationers.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-140825130024.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154273)
Walking further along past bars, restaurants and shops, the number of people began to increase, but you couldn't call it crowded and there was a pleasantly laid-back atmosphere. There was quite a lot of graffiti, much of it of good quality. I thought this one was well done:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-140825130308.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154274)
I was very taken with this one:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-140825130458.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154275)
Near here is this sign:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-140825130744.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154276)
Apart from the name, which I assume means Street of the Vinegar Merchants or Vinegar Makers or maybe Street of the Pickle Makers there is the number above it as there is on every Parisian street sign. This tells you which of the 20 arrondisements you are in; helpful if you are lost. Beneath the name is a "space invader", examples of which I noticed here and there. I have no idea what this is about.
Apparently there is a boulangerie around here called "The French Bastards", but we missed it. That is it's actual name as I have written it, not a translation.
We dropped into a bar and had a very pleasant beer at a not so pleasant price of almost €10 each for 50cl (nearly a pint) of blanche beer. I can't remember the brewery, but the bar was called "La Marine". Not, I suspect, named after Ms. Le Pen.
Here's a view along the canal. I quite like it here although it is a bit "bo-bo"* which explains the combination of high prices and casualness.
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At this point we decided to turn away from the canal and visit the "Place de la République" and say hi to Marianne.
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From here we headed back towards our hotel along the Boulevard de Magenta. I would love to tell you that this leads to "Place CMYK" where it meets Boulevards Cyan, Yellow and Black. Sadly that would be a filthy lie.
Magenta is a place in Italy where a battle was fought on 4th June 1859 between a French/Piedmontese army and Austria. The French victory was largely credited to the actions of General Patrice MacMahon who was made Duke of Magenta and a Marshal of France by the Emperor. Whether the street is named after the battle or the Duke I don't know. I suspect that I don't particularly care.
On the way we visited some other bars (around €8 for 50ml seems to be a more typical price for beer) and enjoyed magret de canard in a nice little restaurant, or "resto sympa" as they say here.
So ended the day. The following day we moved on to our ultimate destination. I'll tell you something about it next time. There will be at least one picture of a train.
*bourgeois bohemian: a middle-class person with artistic pretensions.
Top stuff. :thumbsup: I love travelogues! Looking forward to the next episode. :beers:
French dustbins are named after Eugene Poubelle, the civil servant who introduced dustbins to France
What a wonderful way to be immortalised!
Quote from: joe cassidy on August 15, 2025, 11:18:52 AMFrench dustbins are named after Eugene Poubelle, the civil servant who introduced dustbins to France
When we first went to France we used to refer to the Citroen 2CVs as "dustbin cars" - because most of them were grey and had corrugated bits on them :D
I'm not sure I even saw one on the road this time.
Quote from: Ali Smith on August 15, 2025, 01:40:22 PMI'm not sure I even saw one on the road this time.
Even the last built would be over 35 years old now.
I suspect that, only being made of rather thin metal in the first place, most of them have long since succumbed to the dreaded tin worm by now.
The only 2CVs you will see in Paris today are those offering sight-seeing trips for tourists.
We enjoyed our brief visit to Paris, but it was time to move on. As I mentioned before we were to travel from the nearby Gare de l'Est. Here's a picture of part of it I took the previous evening. It's about twice the width you see here.
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We had a while to wait, but in due course we were allowed onto our train. We were in the front coach, so I had a moment to snap a photo'.
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As you can see it's an Inter-City Express operated by Deutsche Bahn. According to DB's own website it appears to be an ICE3neo, with a top speed of 320km/h. The train's ultimate destination was Stuttgart.
At the appointed hour, off we went past various business premises and housing estates but were soon out in the countryside. The ride was very smooth; the sensation of speed came from looking out of the window and thinking "that looks interesting...didn't it!" As we headed east, we noticed architecture becoming gradually becoming more Germanic in style. After an hour and three quarters the train slowed to a halt at it's first stop, Strasbourg, some 252 miles from Paris. We got off here and crossed, by underpass, to another platform to await the train to our final destination.
The train was delayed by about ten minutes, but it did arrive and we clambered aboard. I would guess the coach was from the 1970's and had the unusual, to British eyes at least, feature of compartments without doors. These had not been removed by human agency whether official or unofficial; it was clearly part of the design.
In some ways this was the best part of the whole journey from Bedford as we were going slowly enough to be able to see things properly and we passed through several towns with stations. Beyond these towns to the west were the Vosges mountains dotted with castles (or bits of them) including Château du Haut Koenigsbourg, or at least I think that's what it was. This mixture of French and German in the name of a single thing like a castle or a street is common in Alsace and confusing because it's hard to guess how to pronounce it but is very much a part of the character and history of the region.
Our enjoyment of the scenery was somewhat impaired by the gloomy and occasionally wet weather allied with the dirty windows.
Despite the dismal state of its fenestration, after ¾ of an hour or thereabouts the train passed through the suburbs of the town of Mulhouse (pron. Mull-ooze or something like that) and stopped, conveniently, at the station. This was as close as SNCF was going to get us to our destination so we got off and went in quest of a taxi. The train itself had further to go; Basel in Switzerland I believe. It might be all of 20 miles.
To find a taxi, we first had to get out of the station, which led us over the footbridge. Crossing this structure revealed the platform canopies.
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These must have been quite impressive in their day, whenever that was. I've noticed before a French fondness for quite elaborate concrete constructions to perform rather mundane tasks. The station gives the impression of being larger than it needs to be, in fact the whole line from Strasbourg is like that. Over to the right of the picture there is grass growing in the track.
We found a taxi which took us to Hôtel Bristol by what seemed like a rather circuitous route but it may be that he simply wished to pull up in a side street rather than the main road. He only charged us €8, which can't be much different from the £7 fare from home to our local station.
We checked in and went to our room. To get there we used...
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-150825163030.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154311)
Yes! Schindler's Lift*
The room was extremely pleasant. As we were staying for several nights we unpacked properly and then headed into town. Our first port of call was not any place of refreshment but the tourist office. There were many objects of interest here, the strangest of which was this:
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It is what it seems: a motorcycle wrapped in wool. There was a notice explaining it and in good English too but I still couldn't see why. It is quite amusing though and maybe that's enough reason. It looks like an early BSA Bantam, but I suspect it's a French machine from a similar era.
*If any Jewish person reading this is offended then I apologise but it is not my intention to make light of your people's sufferings.
Excellent narrative, Ali
Quote from: Ali Smith on August 15, 2025, 04:34:27 PMThe ride was very smooth; the sensation of speed came from looking out of the window and thinking "that looks interesting...didn't it!"
I remember the first time I went on a TGV on the Bordeaux line - the only indication I got of the speed was when the line ran beside a autoroute and we were going about twice as fast as the cars.
Quoteafter ¾ of an hour or thereabouts the train passed through the suburbs of the town of Mulhouse (pron. Mull-ooze or something like that) and stopped, conveniently, at the station. This was as close as SNCF was going to get us to our destination
Aha, I did wonder if you were heading to the Cité du Train.
I went there in its previous incarnation, the Musée Français du Chemin de Fer, and very good it was too.
We stayed at the Grand Hotel Bristol, opposite Colmar railway station several years ago, do you think your Hotel Bristol at Mulhouse is part of the same chain? Both now look like very smart boutique hotels.
Tim
The French provinces of Alsace and Lorraine became part of Germany in 1870 after the Franco-prussian war and were returned to France after the 1st world war.
The Germans marked their presence by building magnificent railway stations in a teutonic style such as Metz and Mulhouse.
They also left their mark by imposing right hand running which continued for a long time even after the liberation of Alsace/Lorraine.
If you go home via Mulhouse try to find time to visit tha national railway museum and the car museum
I think some people are getting ahead of me, as I thought they might.
@Moonglum, the Bristol at Mulhouse appears to be part of the Contact Hotels group. The website for the Bristol at Colmar makes no suggestion of being a member of any group. Bristol is a fairly common name for an hotel. We passed one walking between Gare du Nord and Gare de l'Est. There's also a dead posh one on Rue de Faubourg St-Honore.
I seem to recall hearing of one in one of the grandest resorts of belle epoque Europe. Somewhere like Nice or Baden-Baden. The sort of place Queen Victoria or Edward VII stayed at.
I still eagerly await the appearance of 'Popeye' Doyle in this tale :D
I'm really enjoying this. Keep em coming! :thumbsup:
Whilst viewing knitted motorcycles is mildly diverting, this was not our chief purpose in visiting the tourist office. What we wanted was City Passes. These last for three days and give you free use of local busses and trams and free or reduced access to various museums. At €19 each they are well worth the expense. There was a problem with the computer, so the young lady suggested we come back in an hour, perhaps have a coffee. We took up the first part of the suggestion, but instead of coffee we sought beer.
At this point it might be as well to give a very brief history of Mulhouse as it seems to be little known in the UK, except among those in the know about its museums. It had been part of the Holy Roman Empire*, becoming one of the ten Free Imperial Cities of Alsace within said Empire. In 1515 it joined the Swiss Confederation as an associate. It was not annexed by France under the Treaty of Westphalia but became a free Calvinist republic until 1798, when it joined France following a vote in favour by its citizens.
In the 19th century it became a major industrial city, including textiles. The is a museum of printing on fabric but I confess we didn't visit that. The city became known as the "Manchester of France".
As
@joe cassidy pointed out, Alsace and Lorraine were ceded to the German Empire following the Franco-Prussian War but regained in the Treaty of Versailles in 1919. It was occupied by the Germans again in 1940-45.
Another thing worth knowing is that there is an Alsatian language. By this I mean the language of the people of Alsace rather than the barking of a German Shepherd Dog.
Anyway, back to the beer. We found a pub called J. Murphy as in the famous brewers of Irish Stout who aren't Guinness. They had both, but we chose neither.
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In the background is the Tour du Bollwerk. This may be our first example of the Alsatian tongue. Behind me is Rue du Bastion.
Here's a better view of the Bollwerk.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-180825104657.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154351)
And from outside;
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-180825104857.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154352)
Note the tram in the distance.
According to Google Maps the Bollwerk dates from the 14th century. It looks a bit insubstantial to me and far too tidy. I'm inclined to think it's a replica, but at the very least it must have had a lot of restoration. It does seem to be about where the city walls would have been, so it isn't a total fantasy.
The beer was very nice and when we went back to the tourist office our passes were ready.
Next time we will have a look at this chap,
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-180825105232.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154353)
And ponder the name of a shopping centre. We might even fit in a tram ride.
* "Neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an empire" Voltaire
Our bony-looking chum is a sculpture called "Le Soudrier" (The Welder) which is fair enough as he is sitting on a welding set, but where is his face shield and all the other paraphernalia of that trade?
As you can see, he is made of scrap steel objects and joined together by somebody who does have the use of sufficient welding equipment. You may care to amuse yourself by seeing how many different items you can find within his physique. There are NO prizes, and I don't even know what the correct answer is.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-210825105916.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154387)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-210825110038.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154388)
There should be a side view but the system keeps rejecting the file as too large even though it is only 501kB and the max permitted size is apparently just short of 1MB. Ho Hum.
If you look across the road in the direction Le Soudrier is looking you will see, next to the Tourist Office, a shopping centre with the curious name of "Porte Jeune" (Young Door). I made sure I hadn't misread it, but Porte Jaune (yellow door) hardly made any more sense. The nearby tram stop, more of a station really, bears the same name.
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The explanation occurred to me a day or two later. The tram in the distance in the last image is approaching from the Bollwerk (off to the right). Judging by the age of buildings this is probably the line of the city walls. I noticed there are several other "portes" around town, and "porte" can also mean "gate", so Porte Jeune is the location of the most recent of these.
What with viewing sculpture and linguistic pondering we had become thirsty, so off we went down this street in search of an "apero" to be followed by dinner.
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Finding a restaurant that was open proved more difficult. It hadn't been a problem in Paris, at least not in the vicinity of two major railway stations, but the French practice of dining late caught us out. Not wanting to wander aimlessly nor have another drink just to waste time, we settled on a pleasant Italian restaurant.
For a nightcap we repaired to "The Inn of the Teutonic Knights"
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I like to imagine the bar full of knights in armour (some wearing helmets like the one on the sign) talking in ridiculous German accents and quaffing* beer, the sort of scene that could have been in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail".
In fact, the Teutonic Knights were a military order originally devoted to protecting Christians in the Holy Land.
A feature I noticed that rather detracted from the mediaeval ambience was tables made of Massey Ferguson bonnets. Sadly, I failed to take a picture.
The next morning after a good breakfast we made our way to Porte Jeune and got on a Number 3 tram. This trundled through mostly suburban areas before speeding up on a reserved track parallel to the main line whereby we had arrived the previous day. At a stop called Musées we got out and walked past allotments, one or two industrial units and something called Electropolis (I'll come back to this another day) until we came to, as some of you have already guessed, this:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-210825112439.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154392)
* "Quaffing: like drinking but you spill more" From one of the Discworld novels by Terry Pratchett. I can't remember which one.
Mick
@Newportnobby was kind enough to reduce the offending photos of Le Soudrier for me. Here they are. Thanks Mick.
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Next time there will be trains.
Having arrived at the museum we gained free admission with our previously purchased City Passes.
On entering the first hall, we were confronted by various pieces of railway equipment lurking in the gloom and quite a lot of noise including occasional load bangs. We found that some of the rolling stock was adorned with rather unconvincing dummies and that much of the noise was their "conversations".
The grandest of the dummies was this one, apparently intended to represent Napoleon III in the Imperial saloon.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-280825130918.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154492)
I say apparently because it doesn't look like any portrait I've seen of that gentleman.
The saloon was coupled to this engine which, if I remember correctly, is a Sharp, Stewart product.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-280825131140.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154493)
Alongside the Sharp, Stewart was this imposing machine (it doesn't really have blue wheels).
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-280825131351.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154494)
All I can tell you is that it is a "mountain type" or 4-8-2. The French call this a 2-4-1 which is entirely rational but somehow doesn't feel right.
Here's another interesting-looking engine. It belonged to the PLM (Paris-Lyon-Méditerranée) and I only know that because it's written on the bufferbeam.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-280825131841.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154495)
This signal box was fairly central in the hall. Whether it is genuinely from Mulhouse or not I don't know.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-280825132026.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154496)
At the far end of the hall was a railway gun, mostly hidden by a tarpaulin, or maybe it was a camouflage net. Clearly this was the source of the loud bangs. Near here was an engine, a 1-4-0 I think, laying on its side as if having been derailed.
The final item in this hall I photographed was this velocipede, complete with red flag.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-280825132249.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154497)
Had this hall been typical of the whole museum I would have been less than gruntled. It seems to follow a trend to create the atmosphere of the past for children, people who are not particularly interested and those with no imagination. That's understandable up to a point but it could be done just as well, maybe better, with replicas. There's also the question of which past as railway history covers 200 years.
Happily, the rest of the museum was much more to my taste. I hope to tell you about it soon.
Oh dear. Napoleon III doesn't look at all well
For somebody who died in 1873, I think he looks remarkably well.
Looks like one of Jim Henson's Muppets ;)
Maybe he is contemplating going into exile in England ?
Thank you so much for this wonderful thread, Ali. Good jokes too.
It's a real tonic to read it and and I'm looking forward to more.
Anent the woollen motor-bicycle, we pinched the design for the Bantam from the Germans at the end of the War. DKW, I think. Maybe one of the French manufacturers did something similar.
With all good wishes.
John
Thanks for the kind words, John@ Train Waiting. I'm glad to see you are on the mend.
Between the first hall and the rest of the museum is a corridor from which it is possible to step outside for some fresh air. On doing so we found a number of things including this barmy-looking crane.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-020925105721.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154631)
The main hall is organised into a number of "quais" (platforms) for different periods of history, which I shall follow.
Platform 1: The 19th Century; The Industrial RevolutionThe first thing to catch my eye was another barmy-looking thing:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-020925105959.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154634)
It's a "hobby horse" bicycle that you scoot along with your feet, but fitted with double-flanged wheels so it can be used on a railway track. Thanks, but I'll give that a miss.
This engine is apparently the oldest preserved engine in Europe.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-020925110314.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154635)
It's a Buddicom 111 (2-2-2 in White's notation) No.33 'St Pierre' of the Paris-Rouen Company. It dates from 1844. How this can be older than "Rocket" of 1829 I don't know. Whatever the answer to that puzzle it is a fine looking locomotive and that buffer stop is remarkable.
Here's a Crampton type, No. 80 'Le Continent' of the Paris-Strasbourg company; built 1852, withdrawn 1892.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-020925110445.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154636)
Visiting museums is thirsty work, but here is a little refreshment:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-020925110632.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154637)
Vintage 1900; clearly a very good year.
Next is No. 701 of the Chemin de Fer du Nord.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-020925110832.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154638)
It's a de Glehn four-cylinder compound of 1885. At first glance it appears to be a 4-4-0, but in fact it's a 4-2-2-0. It was built by SACM (Société Alsacienne de Constructions Mécaniques) at Belfort in 1885.
The design of this very engine was described by John
@Train Waiting in his "Coarse Guide to the Steam Locomotive for N Gauge Modellers" at reply #455 and I don't propose to repeat it, but there is a lot more to de Glehn's story than this.
Alfred George
von Glehn was one of 12(!) children born to Prussian nobleman Robert von Glehn and his Scottish wife Agnes, née Duncan, at Sydenham. At the Great Exhibition of 1851 (conveniently held at Sydenham), he was fascinated by agricultural machines, even though he was only three. This must have had some influence on his decision to become an engineer.
After settling in France, Alfred changed his nobiliary particle* from "von" to "de".
He Joined SACM's locomotive department in 1872 and rose to become Director of that department.
Alsace had been ceded to Germany following the Franco-Prussian War, so de Glehn set up a branch of SACM at Belfort just 36km away but still French and hence was more convenient for maintaining relations with French customers.
Alfred became administrator-director of SACM in 1886.
Following a study trip in 1902, de Glehn wanted to impose an idea that he held dear: "In a large factory, the care of everything that affects the moral and material well-being (of the worker) constitutes a service just as important as this or that service of manufacturing ". This principle was rejected by the SACM leadership and he resigned in 1904.
Freed from his duties at SACM, de Glehn became more active in improving workers' housing and the struggle against tuberculosis.
He was also actively involved with the Mulhouse Industrial Society and the Mulhouse Natural History Museum.
During the Great War he was interned by the Germans and sent to a camp in Germany. After protests from Siemens and German railway management with whom he had dealings in his SACM days he was released and went to Switzerland.
During the war the rest of the family followed Alfred's example and changed their nobiliary particle to "de".
After the war he returned to Mulhouse and reclaimed his house which had been commandeered as the German district headquarters.
Alfred died in 1936, busy to the end. His was a life well lived.
*I only discovered this phrase whilst researching de Glehn, but I like it so much I want to use it often. Sadly, I can't imagine many opportunities presenting themselves.
Wonderful stuff :claphappy:
Yep, awesome. :thumbsup:
Thank you, Ali, for a truly excellent post.
Anent that delightful Buddicom, one can only suspect a decision was taken that Europe didn't include the British Isles. Geographical inexactitude being used to claim the 'oldest' for France.
Your work on de Glehn is especially good - do you fancy doing something similar for Crampton? I seem to recall the phrase 'Taking the Crampton' was used in France for a while.
With all good wishes.
John
You are too kind. The de Glehn piece was only cobbled together from a couple of websites I looked at whilst researching for my report from the museum.
I've had a quick look for information on Crampton and his engines and there is definately material of interest there. There would certainly be a French Connection (but still no Popeye Doyle; sorry Mick) but several other nationalities as well.
Could it be the oldest "original" preserved loco? It may be younger than "Rocket" but as I understand it the version in the NRM is a bit of a Trigger's Broom having been mucked about with over the years.
Only a thought!
Keep up the good work, reminds me of our years in France......
Dave
It's certainly true that Rocket has been altered over the years and now bears little resemblance to the yellow leading edge of technology that won the Rainhill Trials, but we don't know how much retrofitting and refurbishment has gone on with the Buddicom. More than a lick of paint, I'll warrant.
As railway enthusiasts tend to be quite insular, maybe nobody considered the possibility that an older foreign engine might exist.
whatever the reason, those who know the truth know the truth, those who don't know but are interested will learn it and those who aren't interested don't care.
All in all it doesn't seem worth getting too worked up about it.
Quote from: Southerngooner on September 02, 2025, 05:59:04 PMCould it be the oldest "original" preserved loco? It may be younger than "Rocket" but as I understand it the version in the NRM is a bit of a Trigger's Broom having been mucked about with over the years.
The Rocket at the NRM in York is the 1979 built replica... (150th anniversary)
The (remains of the) original are in the Science Museum (https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co26704/rocket-locomotive) in London.
Regardless... Rocket is only the
third oldest surviving loco in the UK!
The oldest in the world is acknowledged (
by everyone outside of France!) as being another Science Museum resident - "Puffing Billy (https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co26701/puffing-billy-locomotive-with-tender-and-rails)" built
19 1814 by Timothy Hackworth, for Wylam Colliery.
Second place being claimed by Billy's cousin "Wylam Dilly", now at the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh...
@PLD I think you've got Puffing Billy's build date a bit out....like 100 years?
Martyn
Quote from: martyn on September 02, 2025, 08:28:30 PM@PLD
I think you've got Puffing Billy's build date a bit out....like 100 years?
Martyn
what's the odd century matter here or there... :-[
John @ Train Waiting suggested I should write something about Thomas Crampton to follow my notes concerning Alfred de Glehn. I don't know why because I'm sure he already knows most of what I could find out. Nevertheless, here goes.
Thomas Crampton worked as an assistant to Marc Brunel before joining the Great Western Railway in 1839 where he worked for Daniel Gooch and had a hand in the design of the Firefly class of locomotives.
Gooch wished to produce broad gauge engines that were superior to those on the standard gauge and so demonstrate the technical superiority of the broad gauge.
Crampton realised that GWR's broad gauge engines were better for a number of reasons. The broad gauge allowed a higher centre of gravity without loss of stability; a matter that concerned many engineers at that time. It also permitted a larger boiler and firebox and hence heating area. Larger driving wheels could be used which resulted in lower piston speed, hence the locomotive could travel at a higher speed before excessive piston speed caused exhaust difficulties.
Meanwhile, Crampton was thinking of ways to improve standard gauge engines to match those of the broad gauge.
In 1843 Crampton left the GWR and in the same year took out a patent for his new design of locomotive.
Its most striking feature was the driving axle with its large wheels placed behind the firebox and its long, low boiler. The low boiler was, of course, made possible by the location of the driving axle. The use of outside cylinders (less common at the time) eliminated the need for a cranked axle and gave even more space to lower the boiler. There were other, less visible, departures from contemporary practice, such as wide steam passages, large heating surfaces and generous wheel bearing areas.
In 1845, the Namur and Liège Railway1 placed the first order with Crampton for locomotives built to his patent. Three machines were ordered, each with 7ft driving wheels and a 14.5sq.ft grate. They were built by Tulk & Ley of Whitehaven. One of these engines was tested on the LNWR, who then built a Crampton of their own at Crewe. The LNWR subsequently bought two more Cramptons one of which, Liverpool, was a 6-2-0 built in 1868 by Bury, Curtis and Kennedy had 8ft driving wheels. It was claimed that this locomotive achieved 79mph with an average of 53mph over 30 miles with a 60 ton load.
In 1850, a Crampton engine was exhibited with balance weights on the driving wheels. Dynamic balancing was poorly understood at this time but it seems that lack of it, along with the short wheelbase of the "long boiler" design were as much responsible for the instability that was commonly blamed on a high centre of gravity.
By 1851, Crampton was working for the South Eastern Railway and in that year ten new Cramptons were built for that company by Robert Stephenson. One of these, no.136 "Folkston" was shown at the Great Exhibition of that year. There is a spelling mistake in the previous sentence but I didn't make it.
Throughout the 1850's, Crampton's Patent locomotives were built for British, French2 and German2 railways by builders in all three countries.
They were not very popular in Britain, although some lasted into the 1870's on the SER. They fared much better in France and Germany.
In the USA, the Camden & Amboy had a class of eight engines of outrageous appearance if the images I've found are to be believed. The Syracuse & Utica also had one, but I have seen no pictures of this. I really have no idea if these were the only ones in the whole country.
Approximate totals built: Great Britain 51
France 127
Germany 135
The country an engine was built in is not necessarily where it was used, of course.
Cramptons were good engines in their day, especially for high-speed work, but their Achilles' heel was their most striking feature; that huge pair of driving wheels at the back bore but a small proportion of the engine's weight and hence adhesion was poor. Once train weights began to increase they could no longer cope.
In France the expression "prendre la Crampton" meant to catch an express, and in the slang of the Saint Cyr military academy, footplate staff were known as "officiers de Crampton" (and this as late as 1971).
Surviving Cramptons are few, probably only one:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-090925194156.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154783)
Apart from No.80, I have read that a German built example of 1863 (that's quite late) from the Bavarian State Railway is in the DB museum but their website is uninformative about what exhibits they have. I have also read that a replica from 1920 ("Die Pfalz") is preserved in Germany. This may be the same locomotive.
The Crampton Locomotive Trust (CLT) aims to build a replica of the first of three Crampton locomotives built for the South Eastern Railway by the Whitehaven firm of Tulk & Ley in 1847.
No drawings of the of the design exist as they are believed to have been destroyed in a fire at the Lowca Works of Tulk & Ley in 1912.
The CLT has spent two years organising itself and has started raising funds for the project with the first task being to produce a set of working drawings.
In October 2024 it was announced that a contract had been placed with Northern Heritage Engineering Ltd of Darlington to build the locomotive's boiler, firebox and smokebox starting in early 2025.
That about covers the Crampton locomotive. If you really need to know more I suggest you obtain Mike Sharman's book. It's out of print, but when I looked on Ebay the other day there were several available from £44.
There is more to Thomas Crampton than his patent locomotive, however.
In addition to being a mechanical engineer (founder member of I.Mech.E 1847, vice president 1883) he was also a civil engineer, joining the ICE in 1854.
In 1855 he was responsible for building the Berlin waterworks. In 1859 he formed the Broadstairs Water Company, building a water tower 80ft tall which now forms the Crampton Tower Museum.
In 1860 he designed a tower for Holy Trinity Church, Broadstairs, which Dickens had described as a "hideous temple of flint; a petrified haystack". Having viewed the church on Google Maps I can see what Dickens meant, but I don't find it offensive. Incidentally it doesn't have a tower. Whether it was never built or it was subsequently removed I couldn't say.
Crampton entered a partnership with Sir Morton Peto and Edward Betts to build part of the London Chatham and Dover Railway. When the partnership became insolvent in 1867, Crompton was made personally bankrupt, but unlike his partners managed to retain his good reputation and continue in business.
Crampton was wholly or partly responsible for lines between Smyrna4 and Aidin; also Varna5 and Rustchuck. He was the contractor and later Chairman of the East and West Junction Railway and a Crampton locomotive hauled the first train from Kineton to Fenny Compton. Crampton was a partner in the Mont Cenis Pass Railway.
As if all that wasn't enough, he was responsible for laying the world's first international submarine cable in the Strait of Dover in 1851. Messages could be transmitted from Dover to London over the SER's electric telegraph, of which they were an early adopter.
Not content with sending electrons under the Channel, Crompton designed an automatic tunnel boring machine intended for use in the construction of one of the Channel Tunnels that weren't built. The principles of the design were sound and benefitted later tunnelling projects.
Thomas Russell Crampton was born on 6th August 1816 at Broadstairs to John (plumber and architect) and Mary Crampton. He was privately educated.
On 25th February 1841 he married Louisa Martha Hall, a singer and friend of Jenny Lind "the Swedish nightingale"6,7. They had eight children.
In 1855 he was appointed Officer of the Legion d'Honneur and in 1885 was made a Knight of that Order. In 1856 he was appointed to the Prussian Order of the Red Eagle, which sounds made up but Wikipedia assures me is real.
Louisa died on 16th March 1875, and on 25th August 1881 Thomas married Elizabeth Werge.
Thomas died at his home, 19 Ashley Place, Westminster on 19th April 1888 and was buried in Kensal Green Cemetery.
1 Belgian connection
2 French connection
3 German connection
4 Turkish connection
5 Bulgarian connection
6 Swedish connection
7 Jenny Lind was the first of a class of ten steam locomotives built in 1847 for the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway (LB&SCR) by E. B. Wilson and Company of Leeds, named after Jenny Lind. The general design proved to be so successful that the manufacturers adopted it for use on other railways, and it became the first mass-produced locomotive type. The "Jenny Lind" type was also widely copied during the late 1840s and 1850s, and into the 1860s. "Jenny Lind" became the generic term for the 2-2-2 wheel arrangement.
Back to the museum next time.
Have fun,
Ali
Quote from: Ali Smith on September 09, 2025, 07:48:57 PMIn 1845, the Namur and Liège Railway1 placed the first order with Crampton for locomotives built to his patent. Three machines were ordered, each with 7ft driving wheels and a 14.5sq.ft grate. They were built by Tulk & Ley of Whitehaven. One of these engines was tested on the LNWR, who then built a Crampton of their own at Crewe. The LNWR subsequently bought two more Cramptons one of which, Liverpool, was a 6-2-0 built in 1868 by Bury, Curtis and Kennedy had 8ft driving wheels. It was claimed that this locomotive achieved 79mph with an average of 53mph over 30 miles with a 60 ton load.
The name "Tulk & Ley" (actually based at Lowca, between Whitehaven and Workington) jumped out at me because they built the first locomotives for the Maryport & Carlisle Railway, the last of which was the eighth and last Crampton that Tulk & Ley built.
The first three were ordered by the Namur & Liege Railway but the order was undelivered because the railway was not ready. Of these,
Namur was the one tested by the LNWR. In the end, all three went to the South Eastern Railway and became SER Nos 81, 83 and 85.
Of the other five Cramptons that Tulk & Ley built, one went to the Dundee and Perth and Aberdeen Junction Railway (named
Kinnaird), one to the LNWR (No.200,
London), two for the Sheffield, Ashton-under-Lyne and Manchester Railway (No's 35 & 36,
Pegasus &
Phlegon and one to the Maryport and Carlisle Railway (No 12).
Many thanks
@Ali Smith - that is absolutely fabulous stuff with a very good picture to illustrate your erudite text.
And thank you
@chrism for the additional information. Unfortunately, I don't have my references here to provide details, but the Lowca locomotive-building story is a fascinating one.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/6222-100925091152.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154784)
Talyllyn Railway 0-4-2ST No. 1 was Lowca-built, by Fletcher Jennings & Co. As was 0-4-0WT No. 2
Dolgoch.
Thanks, again, chaps.
With all good wishes.
John
Quote from: Train Waiting on September 10, 2025, 09:19:00 AMAnd thank you @chrism for the additional information. Unfortunately, I don't have my references here to provide details, but the Lowca locomotive-building story is a fascinating one.
Talyllyn Railway 0-4-2ST No. 1 was Lowca-built, by Fletcher Jennings & Co. As was 0-4-0WT No. 2 Dolgoch.
The Lowca site was originally established in 1800 by "Heslops, Milward, Johnston & Co." and taken over by the iron-mining firm Tulk, Ley & Co. about 1837. Ley was an absentee investor, but Tulk's decision to concentrate on finished goods rather than simple foundry products swiftly paid off, with orders for locomotives from the new Maryport and Carlisle Railway.
They also tried shipbuilding, producing Lowca, the first iron ship ever launched in Cumberland.
Fletcher Jennings & Co then took over Tulk & Ley in 1857.
Before continuing with the museum tour, here is one last picture concerning Cramptons:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-170925105911.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154975)
Now, back to the "Platforms".
Platform 2: The Beginnings of the 20th Century
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-170925110059.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154976)
This striking-looking engine is 4-4-0 No145 "Coupe-Vent" of the PLM, built 1900, withdrawn 1932.
Coupe-Vent means "cut wind" and clearly refers to the attempt at streamlined bodywork. If this was fitted at the time of construction it must be one of the earliest attempts at railway aerodynamics.
The name puts me in mind of the 9F hauled coal trains with a fitted head that ran on the former Great Central much later. These were known as "windcutters"
This was the only exhibit on Platform 2 that caught my eye sufficiently to take a photo, so on to Platform 3.
Platform 3: Between the Roaring Twenties and Global Crisis
Again, only one vehicle attracted my camera in this section.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-170925110405.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154978)
This is Bugatti Presidential ZZy 24408 fast railcar, ETAT, 1933, withdrawn 1950.
Ettore Bugatti designed one of the first modern high-speed rail vehicles in the world. His first RAILCAR was tested near the Bugatti factory at Molsheim in Alsace in 1933.
The Bugatti railcars were built as single, double or triple 'car' units with either two or four petrol engines centrally mounted in one of the cars. Each car was mounted on two 8 wheel bogies and the linked engines were arranged to drive two or four of the eight axles via drive shafts with hydraulic clutches and reversing gears.
This modular system of powered and trailer cars could be arranged in various combinations to suit the different needs of the French railway companies from the smallest 36 seater to the triple set 144 seat train.
These railcars were highly successful being light, clean and comfortable as compared with steam powered rolling stock. Their chief asset was speed and the railway companies were able to drastically reduce long distance journey times.
From the end of 1933 for five years the Bugatti factory built and maintained more than a hundred railcar units which resulted in a huge expansion of the small factory and much needed revenue in the difficult economic climate of the time.
Ettore Bugatti was not a formally educated or qualified engineer and it is remarkable that he was so successful with this revolutionary rail project which he personally conceived, designed and developed between 1931 and 1933. Every aspect of the system was carefully considered and he took out numerous Patents to protect his rights to his inventions. Many aspects of the design were developed from his ideas for motorcar components. The engines, for instance, were practically the same as used in the luxury class Bugatti car: the Royale. The cable operated twin shoe drum brakes were similar to the Bugatti car brakes of that time.
There were many entirely new ideas. The railcar chassis, body and the arrangement of the lightweight monocoque bogies with sophisticated systems for achieving a smooth, stable, quiet and comfortable ride were entirely novel. As always with Bugatti the method of construction of each part was conceptually integrated with the design of the part itself. Several of the relevant Bugatti Patents were for special machining processes and the factory layout was neat, logical and efficient.
These Bugatti railcars were designed to run on petrol/alcohol fuel of which there was a plentiful supply in France in the early 30s. However, this fuel became more expensive and eventually the Bugatti equipment was phased out on economic grounds. For a time, though, they had been a well known and popular feature of the French transport system.
This example has four engines. You can just see the front of a Bugatti Royale to the left of the picture.
Here's one of the 12.7 litre, straight eight cylinder, 24 valve, monoblock type engines:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-170925110854.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154979)
Platform 5: Anyone Can Travel By Train
I failed to take any pictures here, so on to
Platform 6: 1938; Creation of the SNCF
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-170925111332.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154980)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/154/4321-170925111434.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=154981)
Steam locomotive 141 R 1187 Mikado, SNCF, 1945. Oil fired, built by Baldwin.
They were used all over the French rail network from 1945 to 1974.
At the end of World War II, there was a shortage of locomotives, and to quickly obtain the large number needed locomotives were ordered from the main American and Canadian locomotive builders under the Lend-Lease Program (and not the Marshall Plan, signed in April 1948, as often written).
The design was based on the Green Bay & Western Railroad's Mikados, based somewhat on the USRA Light Mikado, suitably modified to meet the SNCF loading gauge. Modifications included the overall height, the fitting of European couplers and buffers, left-hand drive, smoke deflectors (to a unique and instantly recognisable style) and a Kylchap exhaust on the second batch.
The first order for 700 engines was placed in February 1945 with production split between the "big three" American locomotive builders: Baldwin Locomotive Works, Philadelphia, Pa, American Locomotive Company, Schenectady, NY, and Lima Locomotive Works, Lima, Oh. Once financing was made available, the second batch of 640 engines was ordered from the "big three", plus the Canadian manufacturers Montreal Locomotive Works, and Canadian Locomotive Company, Kingston, Ontario. Most of this batch were built as oil burners, burning preheated heavy fuel oil (known in French as 'Mazout'), unlike the first batch which had all been designed as coal fired.
The massive introduction of oil fired locomotives was due to the fact that in the immediate post-war period, quality coal was in high demand and SNCF was consuming 9 million tons per annum. Oil thus allowed savings in coal, even if in many depots it required a revolution in working conditions. The extra range permitted by oil—700 km (435 mi) instead of 400 km (250 mi)—explains also the more intensive use of the locomotives. The enginemen nicknamed the locomotives mazoutières or charbonnières ("coal-scuttles") according to fuel employed; oil-burners were also called les goudronneuses ("tar spraying machines") by their crews.
After the second world war, the American manufacturers' output had been boosted by the war effort. Thus from July 1945 to May 1946 the 700 141 R of the first batch were built in only eleven months. slow down in February and March, and to continue until finished in May, an average of almost three engines per day! By way of comparison in French locomotives works (French industry having been weakened by the war) it took four years, from June 1948 to July 1952, for the manufacturer Schneider to deliver 35 241 P to the SNCF.
For the SNCF, this type of machine constituted a small revolution – with simple expansion and very advanced construction techniques, the 141 R 1101–1340 were the only SNCF steam locomotives equipped with Boxpok wheels, and roller bearings on all the driving and coupled axles, as well as a one-piece cast steel frame. The bar frames and the axle box bearings of 141 R 1–1100 were excellent which made them powerful machines but economical to maintain. For 141 R 1101–1340, the maximum mileage run between two main works visits was up to 230,000 kilometres (140,000 mi). Easy to drive, they offered relatively modern comfort for both drivers and firemen. The cabs were fully enclosed, equipped with comfort and ergonomics hitherto unknown to SNCF crews. Driving and firing controls were within reach while seated, with automatic coal feeding thanks to the mechanical stoker, and oil-firing was even easier. They were banalisées ("standardised"), that is, not assigned to a particular crew.
On 19 October 1975 the last 141 R in use with the SNCF, 141 R 1187 of Vénissieux depot, worked a special return working between Lyon and Veynes. Four locomotives of Narbonne depot were leased to the Hellenic State Railways from November 1973 to April 1974.
Have fun,
Ali
Mazout is pretty much the same name we use then - it's called Mazut in English. Horrible stuff.
Any relation to Mazola?
Platform 6: The SNCF and the '50s
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/155/4321-011025112100.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=155202)
This is electric locomotive CC-7107 of 1953. The museum's website description contains the expression '1.5kw'. I assume this should be 1.5kV.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/155/4321-011025112223.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=155203)
Diesel locomotive CC-65001 of 1956.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/155/4321-011025112410.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=155205)
Electric locomotive BB-9004 of 1952, again with the mysterious description 1.5kw.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/155/4321-011025112632.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=155206)
Electric locomotive BB-9291 of 1964, again 1.5kw.
The BB 9200 locomotives arrived in 1957. From 1967, the SNCF inaugurated Le Capitole, its first commercial high-speed train that ran at 200 km/h and was recognizable by its red colour.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/155/4321-011025112937.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=155207)
P16 class Mountain type of 1947.
Just above the right-hand smoke deflector you can see can see some shields attached to a pillar. These consist of the coat of arms of a town with its name above and what appears to be a locomotive number below. I assume these are nameplates of a class of engines named after French towns.
Platform 7: Trans Europ Express
The Trans Europ Express, (TEE), was an international first-class railway service in western and central Europe that was founded in 1957 and ceased in 1995. At the height of its operations, in 1974, the TEE network comprised 45 trains, connecting 130 different cities, from Spain in the west to Austria in the east, and from Denmark to Southern Italy.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/155/4321-011025113203.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=155208)
CC-40101 four current electric locomotive of 1964. I now know that this styling is commonly known as 'nez cassé' (broken nose). As a child I thought of them as 'back of a Ford Anglia locos'.
Platform 8: Travelling at High Speed
There weren't many exhibits in this area. I took no pictures in it, but if you look at this view, you can see a TGV cab and models of a Eurostar and another high speed train in the distance.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/155/4321-011025113459.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=155209)
The photograph was actually taken to show the building's remarkable roof structure which can also be seen in a number of the other pictures.
Apart from the obligatory visit to the shop, that was the end of the visit. The shop had a good range of serious railway books. I would have liked a general history of French railways, but these were more specialised and naturally in French. I can just about read French with a dictionary to hand but it's hard work.
A tram took us back to Porte Jeune. After a couple of beers nearby we returned to the hotel where we dined on the Alsatian speciality of choucroute washed down with a bottle of Riesling, also from Alsace.
Excellent. Thanks for posting! :thumbsup:
Sorry, but the styling of French locos just jars with me. UK railways had a few 'fuglies' but had the edge in my opinion.
It looks to have been a great trip, Ali. Thanks for posting.
Quote from: Ali Smith on October 01, 2025, 11:36:30 AMwashed down with a bottle of Riesling
When asked whether I like Riesling I replied "I don't know. I've never Riesled' ;)
Thank you so much, Ali, for these two absolutely fabulous posts. Excellent pictures and an informative easy-to-read text. Perfik!
This caught my eye:-
Quote from: Ali Smith on September 17, 2025, 11:18:31 AM[...] Here's one of the 12.7 litre, straight eight cylinder, 24 valve, monoblock type engines: [...]
Presumably two inlet valves and one exhaust per cylinder.
Pre-War there was a fashion to fit single-cylinder motorcycles with two exhaust ports and twin exhaust pipes which gave the stylish but false impression of two exhaust valves. Ariel and Panther were especially keen on this arrangement. Rudge did things properly with four-valve cylinder heads.
I hope there's more to come...
With all good wishes.
John
Bore 125mm, stroke 130mm, two inlet valves and one exhaust valve, single overhead camshaft.
In the '80s Honda came up with a four-valve single (XBR500) with radial valves operated by multiple rockers. They called this arrangement RFVC, standing for Radial Four Valve Combustionchamber. It could equally stand for Rudge Four Valve Copy.
Quote from: Ali Smith on October 01, 2025, 11:36:30 AM(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/155/4321-011025112937.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=155207)
Just above the right-hand smoke deflector you can see can see some shields attached to a pillar. These consist of the coat of arms of a town with its name above and what appears to be a locomotive number below. I assume these are nameplates of a class of engines named after French towns.
There were several classes that wore such town crests – some engines of the CC-6500, BB-15000, BB-22200, CC-40100 and CC-72000 classes did but there may be more. The numbers shown below are additions from the museum and were not there on the locomotives.
(https://www.bahnbilder.de/bilder/sncf-22311-am-25062007-hinter-130347.jpg)
© Wolfgang Koenigsfeld, from bahnbilder.de (https://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/frankreich~e-loks-ms~bb-22200-nez-cass/130347/sncf-22311-am-25062007-hinter-dem.html)
The left one is from the BB-22311 (can't read the name: starting with "Pierre..." maybe?) and the next one is "Chambly" from the BB-15032.
(https://www.finnmoller.dk/rail-fr/15000/sncf-bb15032.jpg)
© Finn Møller, from finnmoller.dk (https://www.finnmoller.dk/rail-fr/15000/index.htm)
The right one is "Vaucresson" but I haven't found the matching engine for that town. Maybe there are books listing the engines with their names but this info is not found on the 'net. Looks to me like XXXX 6506 but the text left of it is too long for CC? :hmmm:
Thanks
@Hiawatha. I embiggened my original photo and found that the left-hand shield is for 'Pierrefitte'. The one on the right is as you say Vaucresson, number 76505-6506.
Cheers, Ali
It's actually Z 6505–6506, an EMU. I thought it was from the CC-6506 as I didn't know that even commuter EMUs carried these crests.
(https://www.bkcw-bahnbilder.de/PictureGallery/pix/fr/electric/emu/sncfz6400/sncfz6506_bk1405060175.jpg)
© Bernd Kittendorf, from bkcw-bahnbilder.de (https://www.bkcw-bahnbilder.de/PictureGallery/pix/fr/electric/emu/sncfz6400/pix.html)