(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/151/10996-220425165117.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=151361)
So thank you for the invite into the forum.
I had the idea a few years back to get my son into the hobby and as we had limited space went at the time with the N gauge option. He was too young at the time to deal with adult models (aren't we all :D ) and was happy with the temporary OO stuff from grandparents.
We now have some cleared garage space to set up a layout together - proper paternal bonding stuff. [Picture is just of the basic loop for testing stock].
Track at the moment is Kato Unitrack which was ideal for child hands and has been been cleaned up well and electric testing around the loop is mainly good. I may go proper modelling Peco track in the long term but initially will stick with the Kato
Rolling stock has been stored very poorly though and I have a few questions re setting up a new layout and repairs. I've split the questions below if that's ok, for ease of replies with quotes.
Question 1 - DCC or not?
We have only one piece of DCC rolling stock - a pretty spectacular Revolution Trains Pendolino 9 car Unit. Control is from a Roco Z21.
I'm wondering whether it it's worth the expense of updating other stock to DCC, if it's even possible for some or just downgrading the Pendolino to DC with blanking chip. I'm not sure if the Kato models could even be upgraded to DCC
We have the following DC stock:
(1) Kato TGV Sud-Est (the orange one)
(2) Kato TGV La Ligne de Coeur (silver six car set)
(3) Kato first generation Eurostar (nine car set)
(4) Thomas and Friends Thomas loco and Percy loco (these two seem far to small for DCC chips - I'm not particularly interested in real world versimiltude - they could potentially run on their own dedicated "novelty" line on DC only)
(5) Bachmann Arriva Class 52 EMU
(6) Farish A4 "Silver Fox"
(7) Dapol Class 58 Freight
(8) Bachmann Class 350/2 Desiro 4 Car EMU London Midland
(9) 2 sets of Dapol Virgin Voyager DMU's
So what I am looking for is a view on the practicality and cost of upgrading all of these to DCC or whether for some it is just not feasible at all. My hesitation is that we have so much DC stock and a lot of Kato electric signals/points/switches that are DC but I suppose could be sold.
Question 2 - DCC feeder track
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/151/10996-220425172600.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=151363)
If sticking with DCC we have a Roco Z21 controller - how do I feed power to the track? The Z21 comes with the pictured power feed for HO scale. When we initially bought it I did succesfully Heath Robinson a connection to the N gauge Kato track.
Trying that again I can't measure any power with my multimeter from Z21 to track.
Is there a bespoke feeder track to solve this or do I have to learn to wire and solder?
Also the two prong connection into green plastic clamps on the Z21 itself doesn't seem an easy fit or secure. What am I missing?!
Really the choice to go DCC is up to you, in terms of will there be enough benefit in doing it considering the cost to upgrade? Maybe it's justifiable if you particularly love sounds, constant lights, and multiple locos on the same track.
My layout's 30 years old and I run it on DC 99% of the time. Just occasionally I'll plug in a PowerCab just to exercise my small fleet of DCC fitted locos, but I have 300+ DC locos and units so for me it's not worth it plus I don't really want to hack old 1970s/80s models around even though I'm perfectly capable of fitting DCC. I'm not a fan of sound so that's not a draw to going DCC.
Just about anything can be DCC fitted, even if it means hard-wiring the decoder into models that don't have a socket. You do need to consider space for the decoder, which can entail milling out some of the chassis block in older non-dcc-ready models. Is it the current Bachmann or the old Tomix Thomas and Percy you have? The Tomix are a bit larger than the Bachmann equivalents.
Will you want to control the points via DCC? You don't have to. You'll need accessory decoders suitable for the Kato 2-wire point motors. It's another aspect where personally I'm not impressed with operating points via my PowerCab nor via a touch-screen app. I like a good old traditional control panel with buttons :)
The simple option to feed Unitrack is to use the feed wires which plug in underneath the feeder track, cut off the Kato plug and join to the DCC output of the Z21 using a choc-block or whatever method suits.
https://traintrax.co.uk/20041-62mm-feeder-track-p-281.htm (https://traintrax.co.uk/20041-62mm-feeder-track-p-281.htm)
(https://traintrax.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/20_041_01.jpg)
You can also buy pre-wired Unijoiners which can help with adding more feeds, although feeding via the fishplate is not the best option as you still have the loose fit of the Unijoiners to contend with.
I don't know the connection method used with the Z21, but clearly other folk manage to connect up to their layouts without problem.
Question 3 - replacement parts/repairs
Because of the poor storage, we are missing some entire bogies and couplings so looking for any advice on best source for Kato parts/repairs.
The Dapol Voyagers are also running very slow and one of the magnetic couplers has sheared away.
I fear I may have caused this myself - I tried to clean the Dapol Class 58 using TidyTrack device. Was running ok before but now only at snail speed with no traction. I may have burned out the motor. So finally, seeking some tips on Dapol repairs (or whether there might be something I can look at, at home).
Apologies for so many questions but all and any help will be much appreciated! :claphappy:
Quote from: ntpntpntp on April 22, 2025, 05:44:15 PMThe simple option to feed Unitrack is to use the feed wires which plug in underneath the feeder track, cut off the Kato plug and join to the DCC output of the Z21 using a choc-block or whatever method suits.
You can also buy pre-wired Unijoiners which can help with adding more feeds, although feeding via the fishplate is not the best option as you still have the loose fit of the Unijoiners to contend with.
Thanks for both replies
The Thomas and Percy are the Tomix models.
I'm minded to stick with DC as per your experience but that will mean downgrading the Pendolino and selling the Z21, which is a shame. I really can't make my mind up.
Thanks also re power connection to Z21 - I have a few Kato feeder tracks so we can cobble one to the Z21. Just didn't want to start cutting off their plugs without advice as I am a very new newbie!
Kato spares you could try dealers such as TrainTrax and also check on ebay. Kato product is mostly batch runs though, so spares for older models can be more difficult to obtain.
Does the 58 have traction tyres? If your 58 has lost traction then it could be that using the TidyTrack cleaner has destroyed the tyres? Simply cleaning it shouldn't burn anything out unless you press really hard and stall the model.
Thanks again.
No traction tyres on my Bachmann Class 58. I have definitely done something to the electrics as it had directional running lights which are now dead!
Hi,
Unless you need the money, I wouldn't get rid of the Z21, it is one of the very best DCC systems out there.
I don't know where you got the Z21 from but they don't come with anything like the "H" shaped PCB. A brand new one comes with green, 2 pin, mating connectors for the track and programming bus connectors on the back of the unit. They are screw terminal connectors, so no soldering involved, just strip back the wires that come with the Kato feeder track, push then into the Z21 mating connectors and screw them tight. The mating connector just pushes into the Z21 connectors.
The Dapol Voyager is not a particularly good model, I have 2 and only one of them runs satisfactorily, but it is very noisy.
The Pendolino doesn't need to be 'downgraded' for DC, the DCC chips in it should work fine on DC (unless it has had a CV change) and still provide some sounds.
Regards,
John P
Thanks John P for another comprehensive and sympathetic to a newbie reply. :beers:
As said I'm conflicted but would like to stick with the Z21 DCC if I can get it working.
The pictured track ("H" shaped PCB) connector is exactly as supplied in original box but is for HO/OO gauge when I bought it about 6 years back and we don't have the "green, 2 pin, mating connectors", only the green connectors to the Z21 track output itself. Happy to strip wires on the Kato connectors though and try and report back!
As for the Pendolino on DC track, it has lights and sounds but does not move! [I have tested it with power car only.]
Finally identified that weird H track power connector: it's for Roco GeoLine HO track apparently.
https://www.modellbahnunion.com/HO-gauge/GeoLine-Einspeisungselement-DCC.htm (https://www.modellbahnunion.com/HO-gauge/GeoLine-Einspeisungselement-DCC.htm)
The Pendolinos quite often don't work with just the power car, hook up a couple of carriages and try it again.
The Z21 should have come with a couple of these in the box
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/9/main_34193.jpeg)
If you don't have them they are really easy to find online and aren't expensive.
I can see in your first photo that you have a multimeter.
To check the Z21 just connect it directly to the DCC bus output of the Z21 and measure the AC voltage. Depending on the brand of multimeter you should see between 12V & 16V AC.
Regards,
John P
Thanks again John P.
We don't have/never had those small green track connectors for the Z21! Will try and find online or strip the wires on the Kato track feedeer and test.
As for the Pendolino I have tried different rakes with some/all carriages on the DC track with no movement but will keep testing too. I could run an isolated DCC loop on the outside of the layout just for the Pendolino, but that would reduce the interest!
So what does the socket look like on the back of your Z21? Presumably it should be a socket suitable for the green connectors.
The green connectors are available
https://www.scograil.co.uk/roco-96321-spare-track-connector-for-z21-24444-p.asp (https://www.scograil.co.uk/roco-96321-spare-track-connector-for-z21-24444-p.asp)
IF you bought the Pendolino secondhand then the previous owner MIGHT have disabled DC running in its decoders.
Regards,
John P
Quote from: ntpntpntp on April 22, 2025, 08:20:21 PMSo what does the socket look like on the back of your Z21? Presumably it should be a socket suitable for the green connectors.
The green connectors are available
https://www.scograil.co.uk/roco-96321-spare-track-connector-for-z21-24444-p.asp (https://www.scograil.co.uk/roco-96321-spare-track-connector-for-z21-24444-p.asp)
I think the slight confusion is that we already have your pictured green plastic connectors that go into the back of the Z21
I think John P's picture is of a green power feed connector to the track rather than the plug to the back of the Z21? It looks like John P's pictures is of a green felt device with a metal prong to the outisde of the track? That's what I may need to source although will also dabble with cutting the plug on a Kato power feed.
Bit odd that Roco doesn't appear to supply any dedicated pieces of track feed like the Kato one you pictured above.
Nope, John's picture is the plug for the back of the controller. The wires then need connecting to the track. You can solder them or splice them into the Kato connector.
I would definitely go DCC given the substantial investment you've made. Among your models the Voyagers and the 350 are a pain as they each need 3 decoders (if you run the voyagers as a pair you could get away with 4 in the two sets, having no lights in the 'inner' driving coaches.
The 150, 58 have 6-pin decoder sockets, plug and play. The TGVs will depend on age; they may have decoder sockets, but may not. The Eurostar will need a new PCB, the Digitrax DN163K0B (IIRC) is the easiest to fit. The Tomix models will need more heavy work to install.
Quote from: bwj on April 22, 2025, 08:54:26 PMBit odd that Roco doesn't appear to supply any dedicated pieces of track feed like the Kato one you pictured above.
It's not odd. The Z21 can be used with any scale and any brand of track.
Most people solder wires to their track rather than rely on pre-wired track or fishplates.
Regards,
John P
Quote from: bwj on April 22, 2025, 08:03:48 PMWe don't have/never had those small green track connectors for the Z21! Will try and find online or strip the wires on the Kato track feedeer and test.
As @njee pointed out, the connectors in my picture are the ones that plug into the back of the Z21, they are just lying on one side with a bit of shadow,
@ntpntpntp 's link shows them better.
It sounds like you have some of those already and they can be used with the Kato feeder track by cutting off one of the Kato connectors and wiring to them instead.
Regards,
John P
I don't want to run the risk of Godwin's law coming to the gentle world of N Gauge modelling so I have created an image of my Z21 connections to try and avoid confusion!
If I understand it correctly the only options for powering N Gauge track from the Z21 is to run bare wire from the Z21 Main Track output with the green screw plug, and then solder to the track and/or cut the Kato track feeder cable and bare wire that into the Z21? The connector supplied with the Z21 is useless?
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/151/10996-220425215115.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=151372)
Correct. A lot of people use a bus wire to power the track - have a ring of cable (I use 1.5mm stripped from twin/earth) to which you attach thinner 'dropper' wires, which you solder to the track. I just connect my controller to the bus in the same way.
Just been checking some German forums about that black GeoLine cable with the H plug. They say if the two pins on the other end don't fit the green connector then cut the pins off, bare the wire ends and connect those into the green connector. Geoline Track came out before the Z21. To me it seems odd they would include a cable that doesn't fit, but they say that 2 pin plug fits one of the other older DCC booster units.
Quite honestly, you can put the GeoLine cable to one side as you're not using HO Geoline track. Cut the while plastic plug off the end of a Kato power feed cable and connect the bare ends into the green connector, and plug that into the Z21 track output.
Are you saying your green connector for the Z21 doesn't have screw terminals to secure bare wires? If that's the case order one of those screw type connectors I linked to earlier.
Thanks again for all the help offered. :claphappy:
I now have measurable AC power running from the Z21 to the track.
I can get the DCC Pendolino moving but still need to learn the intricacies of Z21 programming. None of the other functions are recognised by the Z21 (I did use the programming track) although bizarrely there are carriage lights on but only in the rear four coaches!
The other frustration with the Pendolino is that the couplings (both the magnetic and the plastic clips) are incredibly weak, leading to constant decoupling.
Also while I am running the train on long straights with wide curves, track all checked for potential "tripping hazards" such as uneven rails, but there are constant derailments.
As this happens most often on the single point I've got on the testing loop, might putting a re-railng track after the point help? Tips for succesful running and maintaing coupling in the long term would be appreciated though :*(
Quote from: bwj on April 23, 2025, 05:56:00 PMI can get the DCC Pendolino moving but still need to learn the intricacies of Z21 programming. None of the other functions are recognised by the Z21 (I did use the programming track) although bizarrely there are carriage lights on but only in the rear four coaches!
The other frustration with the Pendolino is that the couplings (both the magnetic and the plastic clips) are incredibly weak, leading to constant decoupling.
In the Z21 app you need to create entries for the various functions that the sound equipped Pendolinos support, these should be documented in the literature that comes with the model.
Here are some screen shots from the Z21 app on my iPhone showing what I mean.
In the app select Vehicles
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/151/3871-230425183110-151393245.png)
You'll see something like this
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/151/3871-230425183110-1513951517.png)
but probably not so many vehicles.
Use the '+' sign to add a new vehicle, or if you already done that select your entry for the Pendolino.
The individual vehicle tab should look like this
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/151/3871-230425183110-1513621027.png)
You can enter it's address, give it a name, and add a picture.
Then select the Functions tab
This one shows my entries for my sound equipped Pendolino, on your app it will be blank and you'll need to add the various functions.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/151/3871-230425183110-1513922352.png)
To add a function, just click on one of the blank function spaces and you should see something like this
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/151/3871-230425183110-1513931584.png)
On the Pendolinos, Function 1 turns the sounds on and off so it is configured as a Switch, if it were a momentary function such as a horn it would be configured as Push-Button.
Hope that helps.
For the carriage lights, just the 1st class carriages have light bars and they are on all the time, extra light bars were available to fit into the other carriages if needed.
For the couplings, they aren't magnetic, they are a push fit and can be quite tricky to connect, but once they are fully inserted they will not come apart, they are anything but 'weak' :D
They have electrical contacts as part of the coupling.
Regards,
John P
Thanks jpendle for the comprehensive guide!
Again may be down to my newbie ignorance but I had thought that there was a way with the Pendolino on the programming track to get the Z21 to read the loco and it's functions? There are 22 diffrent functions on this model - they all have to be inputted by hand, one by one?
Once all that's done the train set has two driving cars how do I ensure that they work in tandem?
Re the couplings they are described in the manual as "kinetic couplings" which pass a current and are claimed to be unbreakable in testing. Sadly not my experience. Is there some magic to connecting them as the manual doesn't help! Will add a photo when back from a trip.
Welcome
Looks simple and a nice plan should you go into scenery.
There are plenty of options should you need to consider and buy storage boxes with foam.
Chris
John's right re: the Pendolino couplings. They're not magnetic. As you say, they are kinematic (meaning they can move independently from the vehicles, rather than being fixed body/bogie mounted) and they're conducting. I find the easiest way to get them to connect is to lift both coaches slightly as you push together. If properly coupled they absolutely won't come uncoupled. At all.
Are you mixing up with the Voyager? The Dapol one does use magnetic couplings which aren't anything special.
On the lights - yes, the first class coaches (except the driving coach) have working table lamps. You can get light bars which will give 'proper' lighting to the central 7/9 coaches. You cannot fit interior lighting to the motor coaches due to the chassis block.
I don't use a Z21, but you don't need to program each function, they're all there, just push each function button. You may need to choose an appropriate icon for each though to remind you which is the toilet announcement and which is the drivers door or whatever!
Quote from: bwj on April 23, 2025, 11:12:42 PMAgain may be down to my newbie ignorance but I had thought that there was a way with the Pendolino on the programming track to get the Z21 to read the loco and it's functions? There are 22 diffrent functions on this model - they all have to be inputted by hand, one by one?
Once all that's done the train set has two driving cars how do I ensure that they work in tandem?
The Pendolino driving cards will work in tandem as long as they both have the same DCC address.
As far as reading functions from the loco, that is only possible with ESU decoders that use Railcom+, with a DCC system that also uses Railcom+, which basically means it only works with the ESU DCC system.
And yes you do need to enable each function, one by one, in the Z21 app.
BUT, and this is a big difference, this means that you can group all the most commonly used functions together, you can set any function to be momentary or to act as an on/off switch, you can give them any name you like, and you can pick an icon for each function that suits you.
As opposed to having a handset with Function buttons numbered from 0 to 9, needing to press 2 or more buttons to get to functions 10 and above, and with no indication on the handset as to what each function actually does for the loco you are driving.
Regards,
John P
Quote from: njee20 on April 24, 2025, 12:16:03 AMI don't use a Z21, but you don't need to program each function, they're all there, just push each function button. You may need to choose an appropriate icon for each though to remind you which is the toilet announcement and which is the drivers door or whatever!
My first priority when back from my trip will be to program the toilet announcement!
Thanks for all the tips again.
I had a disappointing reply from the Traintrax (Kato dealers in UK) suggesting DCC fitting would be "very difficult" on our first gen Eurostar/TGV Sud-Est (the orange one)/older TGV Atlantique. I'd be fairly sure that none of them have DCC sockets ready but does anyone have another view?
Quote from: njee20 on April 24, 2025, 12:16:03 AMI don't use a Z21, but you don't need to program each function, they're all there, just push each function button. You may need to choose an appropriate icon for each though to remind you which is the toilet announcement and which is the drivers door or whatever!
Hi
@njee20 By default a new loco doesn't have any function buttons enabled on the Z21 app.
You have to select the functions you want to use in the vehicles editor before they can be used in the Steering (Driving) section.
All this can be simplified by copying the settings from a similar loco when a new one is set up.
Regards,
John P
How interesting! On the ECoS everything is there by default (well up to F20 or so, above that you enable them on a loco-by-loco basis), but with generic symbols you can go and update. That does sound a bit laborious.
Been away for a while but now back in the garage!
Got the Pendolino working as a train set with functions coded. Still getting a lot of derailments though (when running the full 9 car set - running only 6 cars is ok) so will do a thorough track inspection and check all the bogies.
I hadn't realised that there was an updated Z21 app (paid for) as shown in jpendle's screenshots so downloading that and his advice made things a lot easier. The Z21 manual is pretty useless!
I also found this step by step on another forum very useful:
"First, once you have one loco on the track, go to cv programming and touch the loco (program) button top right.
Then, try to read the loco properties. That may or may not work depending upon your decoders. I mainly use Zimo and they always read. Assuming that this doesn't work, click on the manual button at the top of the screen.
Now this is the point where you may be going wrong. Once you click on manual it defaults back to a POM screen. You now have to select program track in the left hand menu. Once you are in the correct screen the top variable which it will ask you to enter is a cv value (NOT an address value). So, put in cv#1 and then click on the 'read' button. This should return the value set on your loco for cv#1 which is your address.
If you want to change the address then manually change the value and click on 'write'. It's the same for any other cv values you want to read or change for that loco. Enter the cv number, read it, write the new value."
Ongoing teething issues
Dapol Class 58 - this was running ok until (may be a coincidence) I cleaned it on my Tidy Track. Now it runs super slow and without any traction. Lighting has also stopped working. I can't see the lighting clips (penultimate photo) on Dapol spares if anyone knows a part number or matching equivalent?
Dapol Voyager - appears to respond briefly to DCC programming abut doesn't run at all
Farish Class 150 - doesn't run at all and gives different CV numbers every time I try to read it. Lights are on though!
Any tips on testing with a multimeter to see if problems are with chips or motor etc?
Kato Eurostar runs very well but I'm missing a couple of clips that attach a bogie between two cars. Any clues on a part number or alternative fix (I have tried searching for a PDF manual/instruction sheet but this is an old model!)
Finally I have a Farish Class 350 which I'm trying to install DCC on - the shell is a b***** to get off! Any clues there?
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/152/10996-240525092305.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=152425)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/152/10996-240525092336.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=152426)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/152/10996-240525092405.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=152427)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/152/10996-240525130631.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=152437)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/152/10996-240525131707.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=152438)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/152/10996-240525093612.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=152428)
This fella runs perfectly though!
Thomas sadly is "dead" but I found a repair and DCC fitting service even for locos of that size
Tomix DCC (https://wicknessmodels.co.uk/tomix-thomas-locos-on-dcc/)
Finally if it's of use to anyone I found, and succesfully followed this video guide for converting older Kato TGV's and similar. It uses the DCC boards from the newer Kato TGV Lyria which are available as a spare part, albeit rare. Kato part no's 14755-3G for dummy, 14746-3G for power car
Kato TGV DCC fitting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re3a95FMtkg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/152/10996-240525095751.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=152429)
This one's not got a decoder, it's a DC blanking plate. For recognition purposes: decoders have many more components on the board with an obvious processor chip etc. You can see from the circuit traces this blanking plate is simply linking some of the pins together.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/152/5885-240525153828.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=152448)
Yep - sorry should have made clear on the Arriva Class 150
The photo does show it with a blanking chip for testing on DC
Testing it on DCC with a definitely working DCC chip - it doesn't move either way!!
If I'm reading the service sheet and your photo correctly, you have the blanking plate for the 150 inserted upside down. pin 1 and 6 should swap sides?
https://bachmann-spares.co.uk/file/Class-150-DMU.pdf (https://bachmann-spares.co.uk/file/Class-150-DMU.pdf)
Quote from: jpendle on April 23, 2025, 06:46:48 PM(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/151/3871-230425183110-1513931584.png)
On the Pendolinos, Function 1 turns the sounds on and off so it is configured as a Switch, if it were a momentary function such as a horn it would be configured as Push-Button.
Hope that helps.
Thanks jpendle but I'm really struggling at the stage illustrated
I'm following this index in the manual for the Pendolino
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/152/10996-020625154846.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=152837)
I can add direction lights that work with the two locos back to back as function 0
I can even add 15 and 12 the toilet announcement and the Virgin train welcome!
Nothing else works in testing. Presumably in the box "Function (0-31)" I input the same number as in the manual index? Do I need to also need to know the nature of the function push/switch/timed althought I have tried each option.
Also in FX functions on the Z21 Vehicle screen what is the difference between CI/CII/CIII?
I now have a draft layout, not secured yet as still testing electrics, but DCC power appears to be good everywhere.
Locos that are currently DCC Compatible are registered in the Z21 but I'm still struggling with all of the programming functions (post above).
Next teething problem is with the points. I'm using Kato Unitrack. I've bought some DCC Concepts ADS-4x units to control them together with the 3 to 2 wire solenoid connection converters.
I had the impression it would all be plug and play but nothing is intuitive with the Z21 controller!
On the Z21 I set up a mock layout with just one point for testing. It is track powered and you can see that the ADS4x is picking up the track power. For the life of me though I can't get the Z21's program accessory screen to pick up the CV for the point.
What am I missing?? Is the polarity of the track power input into the ADS4x important or doesn't matter. Have I got the adapter the wrong way around/do I need more wiring than just the two wires that should fire the Kato solenoid?
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/153/10996-140625172236.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=153105)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/153/10996-140625172321.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=153106)
[The z21 is latest firmware v.1.43 and I am using the newer z21 software as per image. I've turned off the "offset CV addresses" option in Z21 app settings as addressed here: DCC Concepts advice (https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/an-alert-regarding-roco-z21-accessory-addressing-problems/) and the ADS4x switch is on "set" rather than "run"]
Hi,
Sorry I missed your PM.
For the sounds on the Pendolino your screen when you look at the loco should look something like this.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/153/3871-140625191748-15310953.jpeg)
With a symbol and/or text, for each function plus the function number showing as well.
CI, CII, and CIII are just 3 pages with 12 function entries in each.
You can order the functions anyway you want.
I haven't turned on all the sound functions on my Pendos, but here are screenshots of my Farish sound fitted CL90's.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/153/3871-140625192437-1531122051.png)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/153/3871-140625192437-1531111479.png)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/153/3871-140625192437-1531101983.png)
Hope that helps a bit.
I programmed my accessory decoders years ago, but if I recall correctly I did it like this.
First I didn't use POM.
I created a single point in the app with the address I wanted the decoder to use.
I used NCE accessory decoders and set them to program mode.
I then operated the point in the app by clicking on it, and the decoder was programmed.
Then I changed the address of the point in the App and followed the same process to program the next decoder, etc, etc.
Regards,
John P
Thanks again jpendle
I'll have another look at the programme function issues as per your advice.
For the specifics of my problem with getting the Z21 to recognise the ADS4x I got some very helpful advice from DCC Concepts:
"The ADS units are not readable by the Z21 system as there are no programmable CVs. Please follow the setup instructions which are supplied with the unit.
The process is:
1) Create an accessory on your Z21 system (using the layout planner).
2) Allocate the accessory an address of your choosing.
3) Put the ADS into SET mode.
4) Activate the chosen accessory on your Z21 left, then right.
5) Put the ADS into RUN mode."
The problem is with the Z21 manuals both for the old and new version of the app - neither explains stage adequately of having to create the point in the layout part of the app, save it and double click it's switching functions (while the decoder is in learning mode).
QuoteThe process is:
1) Create an accessory on your Z21 system (using the layout planner).
2) Allocate the accessory an address of your choosing.
3) Put the ADS into SET mode.
4) Activate the chosen accessory on your Z21 left, then right.
5) Put the ADS into RUN mode."
That's pretty much the same as what I had to do with the NCE accessory decoders.
Regards,
John P
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/153/10996-160625011345.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=153160)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/153/10996-160625011421.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=153161)
So I finally have a draft layout as depicted. All using Kato Unitrack and DCC Concepts ADS4x's for the point control. DCC tested and power getting to everywhere on the layout after lots of trial and error.
There are two main line loops and an elevated loop, not for any great reason or realism but I had the track and it makes good use of the board space, and it's fun! I don't see any need or use for complicating things with a reversing loop.
On the left hand side there are two sidings for the 8 car Pendolino and a long freight train with perhaps space for another long siding later for my Eurostar, if I can revive it with DCC
On the right hand side there is multi train siding for EMU/DMU's etc. I plan to put a single two or three platform station on the extreme right hand side and use other areas for freight yards/maintenance depots etc before thinking about scenery
My questions from this point are:
- could I fake a low relief station building on the extreme right of the layout with a real station building on the other side of the tracks?
- best way to secure the track after drilling and burying the wiring under the board - just glue down / hammer and tacks using nearly the scored out drill holes in the Kato Unitrack/ballasting and gluing the ballast edges of the track later without any other support?
- for the longer future, any advice on signals for N gauge that preferably would be compatible with Kato Unitrack & DCC? Their branded signals are DC only. I don't need anything fancy like block control but maybe being able to link the signals to the ADS4x would be good.
Any comments and criticisms of the layout of course welcome!
Hi
Probably not much room in my opinion unless the five Sidings? in the middle can be utilised as a small station for a dmu . Great start but constructively track us too close to the board edge to incorporate any station
Chris
Quote from: crewearpley40 on Today at 05:59:55 AMHi
Probably not much room in my opinion unless the five Sidings? in the middle can be utilised as a small station for a dmu . Great start but constructively track us too close to the board edge to incorporate any station
Chris
Thanks and appreciated
I had to build close to the board edges in order to accommodate curves of sufficient radius for an 8 car Pendolino at full pelt. I'll build some protective barriers eventually and a back scene on the right hand side.
There's space for a 5cm wide platform on the right hand side which would then border the backscene. Hence the idea for a low relief station building on the same platform, if anybody actually makes one?
With regard to signals, the brand of track is irrelevant as there's no connection between the two unless you're using some kind of detection or DC / ABC isolating section linked to or controlled by the signal.
The important thing is to ensure the signals you choose are compatible with being driven by a DCC signal decoder. That tends to imply the signals must use common positive wiring (not common negative).