2025 looks like being the year when we change our transport to match where and how we now live. Leaving rural Norfolk this year ('24) means the need for 2 cars has diminished and also the 'insurance' of an all-wheel drive.
Sadly I will say goodbye to my '08 Forester which has done 110,000 miles with no repairs except wearing parts, it used up the first tyres at 55,000 and the second lot split the walls at 105,000 with 4-5mm of tread still on! To replace with even a decent s/h E-hybrid Forester looks too expensive.
Our '07 Yaris Zinc gets through at least one front coil spring per year, has had fuel issues and brake sensor faults. It fails each year on yellow headlamp lenses if I don't polish them up and wears out at least one tyre per year. My partner likes a smaller car!!!!
Given it now travels 8 miles a day and the forester about 60 per week I'm torn between keeping them, both petrol, or plunging into the 'Electric abyss' where the rules for tax etc seem to change each year. We don't have any rapid charging points in the village and i have to park in the road adjacent to the house.
Current thoughts are self-charging hybrids? The Which listing suggests a Yaris might suit but when we looked at one its like sitting in a pill-box with slit windows. My current preference is the Kia Niro, bigger but well equipped as standard and not too bad electrically on short runs.
Be very interested to know first-hand experiences from folk,
Cheers Chris
I'm on my first Qashqai and will be changing it June 2025 for another. Yes, I'm hooked. I don't want pure elec and they don't do pure petrol or diesel so it looks like a non plug in hybrid for me. Needs to be automatic as well owing to medical issues.
This has probably been of no help whatsoever
My wife Dawn has just bought a new MG3 Hybrid "plus", it is a self-charging one, it come loaded with kit, it even has headlights that dip themselves when headlights are detected in the opposite direction! It is reasonably frugal, usually she gets high 50s mpg, but this does drop slightly in cold weather when heated bits are used. It will run a reasonable distance on "EV" alone, certainly enough to get out of our village, then, depending on speed it juggles between hybrid modes, either the engine acts as generator or drives wheels direct at higher speeds. If you put your toe down the electric motor and petrol engine work in tandem - nearly 200BHP - acceleration is very impressive! Dawn is well pleased with it!
I am plodding on with my petrol "16 Plate" Seat Ibiza FR and as I only do about 4k miles a year I am in no rush to change it. To be honest, much as I admire all the amazing tech on the MG hybrid, the Ibiza still has a few gizmos, is nicely "planted" on the road and an absolute joy to drive - manual transmission provides a much more tactile driving experience, which even Dawn admits she still likes!
Roy
I'm yet to be convinced a pure EV is a good choice for me. I am concerned about the extreme pollution caused by mining, refining, and quantity available of lithium required for the batteries, and the cost of disposing of same when the batteries are life expired. A hybrid of some type seems a good compromise; the Ford MHEV system is less complicated mechanically than, for example, the Toyota system and is lighter comparing similar sized vehicles. I am also wary of the high voltages used in EVs, and other hybrid types around 600V DC I believe. Look at some of the fire Service views on attending EV fires, particularly Teslas.
I have been told the Ford system is 48V DC. I hoop to be test driving a Ford hybrid next year, ideally a Fiesta so I can compare it with my current (10 year old) Fiesta Ecoboost. I like the idea of not worrying about charger availability and having a greater availability of refuelling possibilities. I often wonder about our UK electricity generation and supply distribution networks - is there really enough capacity and security to support all of us going over to EV cars so quickly? Will this push by the Government to get us all into EVs be like the Diesel fiasco?
I am sure the will be many varied and differing views expressed on this thread, which will run to many pages. I will be watching and reading with interest.....
Cheers :beers:
We have an EV and it is great, but they are not cheap and electricity is expensive and inconvenient when you can't charge at home. Even without a driveway, it may be possible to charge at home, if you a) can normally park in front of your house and b) live in an area where the council will approve adding a slotted duct in the pavement for the cable. You can then get electricity for the car at less than 7p per unit (approx 2p per mile). Otherwise, avoid an EV for now.
I bought my first Toyota HEV in 2020, a Corolla saloon. I bought a Yaris Cross at the begining of 2023 and the current C-HR Mk2 in May. Each car seems to be an improvement on the previous one, although I just was not keen on the Yaris Cross. I have never fancied a plug in electric, mainly due to 'range anxiety', plus the fact that my nearest plug in charger is ten miles away I think. The current C-HR is just about everything I want in a car, comfortable, noise is acceptable and at the moment, I am getting nearly 60 mpg. In the depths of summer, I was getting nearly 70 mpg. I can not see me changing it any time soon. Having said all that, I have no expereience of any other hybrid makers. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Firstone18 on December 26, 2024, 03:40:18 PMI'm yet to be convinced a pure EV is a good choice for me. I am concerned about the extreme pollution caused by mining, refining, and quantity available of lithium required for the batteries, and the cost of disposing of same when the batteries are life expired. A hybrid of some type seems a good compromise; the Ford MHEV system is less complicated mechanically than, for example, the Toyota system and is lighter comparing similar sized vehicles. I am also wary of the high voltages used in EVs, and other hybrid types around 600V DC I believe. Look at some of the fire Service views on attending EV fires, particularly Teslas.
I have been told the Ford system is 48V DC. I hoop to be test driving a Ford hybrid next year, ideally a Fiesta so I can compare it with my current (10 year old) Fiesta Ecoboost. I like the idea of not worrying about charger availability and having a greater availability of refuelling possibilities. I often wonder about our UK electricity generation and supply distribution networks - is there really enough capacity and security to support all of us going over to EV cars so quickly? Will this push by the Government to get us all into EVs be like the Diesel fiasco?
I am sure the will be many varied and differing views expressed on this thread, which will run to many pages. I will be watching and reading with interest.....
Cheers :beers:
A MHEV or "Mild Hybrid" is another variation on a hybris so to speak. The principle of the "MHEV" such as on the Suzuki Swift or Ford Puma (Ford don't make Fiestas any more) is that it has a battery that self-charges which under certain conditions, mostly acceleration, adds a "boost" to the conventional petrol engine via what is essentially a beefed up starter motor. It can be used with a normal manual transmission BUT importantly the motor is small and cannot drive the car on "pure" electric as a "normal" self-charging or plug-in hybrid can.
Were I a cynic I would say that a "MHEV" is more a way of looking to get otherwise conventional petrol cars round the forthcoming changes outlawing new petrol/diesel cars in 2030, and while technically it is a hybrid, the benefits are more limited.
Roy
I've never understood the hype over your average hybrid.
People I've spoke to say they get 40-50mpg.
My wife's 2018 plate 2.0ltr VW Golf Estate auto knocks out 60+mpg just running around, 70+mpg on a steady run.
I get 2 weeks running around out of a $60 fill up of my 2015 Toyota Corolla. Best car I've ever had.
That's a bit meaningless, George, especially if you only do 10 miles a week ???
Yeah, our 2005 Toyota Corolla only has 105,000 kilometers on it. Although there has been a little thought go in to a replacement vehicle, the conclusion is it makes no sense to move on from what we have, even though fuel efficiency is not great (could be driver related!).
@emjaybee 70mpg!? Does a 2018 2.0l Golf have pedals other than stop and go? :D
Mark
Quote from: Newportnobby on December 27, 2024, 04:29:41 AMThat's a bit meaningless, George, especially if you only do 10 miles a week ???
Perhaps I should have said "running around town" :P
Geez, you get up early ;D
We bought a MG4 for my wife last March. My Focus now spends most of it's time in the garage as we now use the MG4 for most trips. The furthest away being around 250 miles. It should do that on one charge but my bladder can't. As a result we charge at home (IOG - 7p per KwH and sometimes free) and give it a top up when we stop.
If I can I use Tesla chargers as they are cheaper than the others but not all are available to non Tesla owners. You will need to download a number of Apps. Octopus Electroverse, Telsa, Pod Point and Gridserve should get you going).
When we started we did have range anxiety but not now - my wife had that before the electric and would worry if the tank dropped below half full. Now she's happy to do a 20 mile trip even if the range guessometer only says there 40 miles in the battery.
Also, it's nice to wake the car up when the weathers cold ten minutes before we need to leave get get straight in to a nice warm car.
Quote from: Platy767 on December 27, 2024, 04:30:41 AMYeah, our 2005 Toyota Corolla only has 105,000 kilometers on it. Although there has been a little thought go in to a replacement vehicle, the conclusion is it makes no sense to move on from what we have, even though fuel efficiency is not great (could be driver related!).
@emjaybee 70mpg!? Does a 2018 2.0l Golf have pedals other than stop and go? :D
Mark
I know!
It's modern automatic gearboxes. The Golf has a seven speed 'box & a more fuel efficient engine.
The vehicle it replaced was a 1.6ltr 2014 manual Golf hatchback. It was less fuel efficient.
One thing to also consider when thinking of buying EV is tyre wear.
EV's are considerably heavier than their IC counterparts. They have more aggressive/instant torque & harsher suspension. The tyres for EV's are also more expensive due to the increased load ratings, sidewall strength etc..
This has an impact on tyre wear.
I've a couple of clients who have them. One has VW I.D.3, the first set of tyres lasted 5½k miles! With careful driving he managed to stretch the next set to 7½km miles.
This still means he gets through £1,100 worth of tyres a year.
There's a lot to consider these days when changing vehicles.
Quote from: GrahamB on December 27, 2024, 08:04:44 AMWe bought a MG4 for my wife last March. My Focus now spends most of it's time in the garage as we now use the MG4 for most trips. The furthest away being around 250 miles. It should do that on one charge but my bladder can't. As a result we charge at home (IOG - 7p per KwH and sometimes free) and give it a top up when we stop.
If I can I use Tesla chargers as they are cheaper than the others but not all are available to non Tesla owners. You will need to download a number of Apps. Octopus Electroverse, Telsa, Pod Point and Gridserve should get you going).
When we started we did have range anxiety but not now - my wife had that before the electric and would worry if the tank dropped below half full. Now she's happy to do a 20 mile trip even if the range guessometer only says there 40 miles in the battery.
Also, it's nice to wake the car up when the weathers cold ten minutes before we need to leave get get straight in to a nice warm car.
My experience is almost identical. My wife bought a Kia Nero in April last year. On the very few occasions that she needs to top up, she normally manages to find a Tesla Supercharger to use - they are faster than most other DC chargers, cheaper, and normally have free stations. It's also funny to see the Tesla drivers look down their noses at a Kia.
We've done almost 11,000 miles, and over 90% of the charging that we have done is on a regular 13 amp plug, overnight on the Octopus cheap rate. This means that we're paying about 2p per mile for fuel!!!!!
Yes, the range is a little lower over winter than in the summer (say 220 miles rather than 240), but overall switching to an EV has been a resounding success. Of course, we're fortunate to have a dedicated garage close to the house, so we don't have to worry about how we charge the car overnight.
- Andy
In our local (Sydney) news recently was a story about a chap who bought a new EV, lived in a rented apartment and wanted to install a power socket in his car space (connected back through his meter) so he could charge overnight. Sounds simple?
Refused by the strata committee (home owners association?). The risk of fire (and subsequent insurance cost increase) was such that he would have been required to install fancy fire control system at his cost. No go for him because he's only on a 12month lease in the apartment. Probably he should have checked these conditions and requirements before buying an EV.
Not the story I was referring to , but similar and with some more background.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2024-12-17/strata-residents-banning-electric-vehicle-ev-charging/104707754
Mark
I have (last April) gone from a manual 64 plate Ford Focus Ecoboost to an Automatic Audi A3 Plug-in Hybrid.
Won't go into the gizmos and what not (just to say it's like going from The Write Flyer to The Enterprise), but the drive train:
I like the concept. It's a real "Mild" hybrid, if you plug in and charge up full (which the manual says you shouldn't do often!) then you get 39 miles pure electric MAX.
That last part is in lab conditions I suspect becuase I have seen nothing like that, but I can easily go to the supermarket pure EV if I so choose.
I have no means to charge it at home (which is annoying and a huge hole in the Gov push for pure EV), but take the chance to charge when out and about.
Note that you cannot use fast-charging DC stations with this type, only the slower AC ones (like you would have at home).
Most of the time the system is in "intelligent hybrid" mode which switches between the two motors as it deems fit. It has regenerative braking which harvests energy for the battery when you lift off or brake. This is shown on the dash when the "power meter", which is there instead of a rev meter, goes into negative "charge" territory.
Note the lack of a Rev-meter renders the "flappy paddles" and manual mode almost useless...
The car is set up to encourage you to drive "one pedal", lifting off when safe to use minimal fuel. If you put the car in sport mode the regenerative brakes when you lift off is almost savage!
The one thing I would complain about is that the car seems to be designed with the assumption you have home charging and thus use leccy for small journeys. As I can't, I have had multiple times when I get a "low battery (referring to the traditional starter motor battery) car may not start" warning....
Becuase I do short journeys to shops etc and that drains the starter battery when I can't charge the big one for the leccy motor (if that makes sense?).
I do like the car but it's highlighted some more issues with the electric future.
Skyline2uk
Quote from: emjaybee on December 27, 2024, 12:30:53 AMI've never understood the hype over your average hybrid.
People I've spoke to say they get 40-50mpg.
My wife's 2018 plate 2.0ltr VW Golf Estate auto knocks out 60+mpg just running around, 70+mpg on a steady run.
Similar feelings here:
My current car is a 2017 Vauxhall Astra mk7 Sport Tourer - 1.4 petrol Turbo 150 bhp.
Official MPG is 47.9 @ 120kph/74mph (I easily get over 50 at 70 mph) and 125 g/km CO2 emissions.
Nearest equivalent performance from the mk8 [
i.e. Peugeot 308 with a Vauxhall badge on it...] is the 147 bhp 1.5 Turbo hybrid.
Official MPG is 46.3 @ 120kph/74mph and 128 g/km CO2 emissions.
(Only pure Petrol offered is a 128bhp 1.2 turbo which a claimed to do 49.6 mpg)So the supposed "Environmentally Friendly" hybrid, needs a bigger IC engine, which
by the manufacturer's own figures uses MORE fuel and creates MORE pollution to travel the same distance!! Primarily I suspect due to the fact it's almost 300kg heavier (due to the weight of the batteries?)...
It's also a higher insurance group (27 vs 18) so for me, the increase in insurance cost would be greater than the reduced Road Tax...
We bought our "next car" last September. Our 3rd VW Golf. Replaced our near 9 year old Match (with a lively 1.0 engine) with the latest plug in hybrid. Alleged range c 80 miles. More like 55 to 60 in reality. Still enough for our normal local driving to need 1 or 2 charges a week. No complaints so far!
my Hybrid Jazz does 60mpg, and has 600m range! It has an enormous boot area ( 5 door) area ( rear seats fold flat) an Honda reliability ( I'm on my 4th jazz!)
so no range anxiety!!
Quote from: Skyline2uk on December 27, 2024, 11:15:05 AMI have (last April) gone from a manual 64 plate Ford Focus Ecoboost to an Automatic Audi A3 Plug-in Hybrid.
Won't go into the gizmos and what not (just to say it's like going from The Write Flyer to The Enterprise), but the drive train:
I like the concept. It's a real "Mild" hybrid, if you plug in and charge up full (which the manual says you shouldn't do often!) then you get 39 miles pure electric MAX.
That last part is in lab conditions I suspect becuase I have seen nothing like that, but I can easily go to the supermarket pure EV if I so choose.
I have no means to charge it at home (which is annoying and a huge hole in the Gov push for pure EV), but take the chance to charge when out and about.
Note that you cannot use fast-charging DC stations with this type, only the slower AC ones (like you would have at home).
Most of the time the system is in "intelligent hybrid" mode which switches between the two motors as it deems fit. It has regenerative braking which harvests energy for the battery when you lift off or brake. This is shown on the dash when the "power meter", which is there instead of a rev meter, goes into negative "charge" territory.
Note the lack of a Rev-meter renders the "flappy paddles" and manual mode almost useless...
The car is set up to encourage you to drive "one pedal", lifting off when safe to use minimal fuel. If you put the car in sport mode the regenerative brakes when you lift off is almost savage!
The one thing I would complain about is that the car seems to be designed with the assumption you have home charging and thus use leccy for small journeys. As I can't, I have had multiple times when I get a "low battery (referring to the traditional starter motor battery) car may not start" warning....
Becuase I do short journeys to shops etc and that drains the starter battery when I can't charge the big one for the leccy motor (if that makes sense?).
I do like the car but it's highlighted some more issues with the electric future.
Skyline2uk
I take it your "Mild" description is tongue in cheek in relation to your car's range on battery electric power as from what you describe your car clearly isn't a Mild hybrid in the sense recognised by the motor industry.
I personally think it is horses for courses, what will suit one person won't suit another, my little petrol Ibiza FR does 50 - 55 MPG on a run with sensible driving and have pretty low emissions BUT around town and on short runs that MPG drops considerably whereas Dawn's new MG3 Hybrid, because it runs mostly on electric in town which is much more efficient, still returns well over 50 mpg regardless.
when I do replace my car, my current research would have me leaning towards a self-charging "full" hybrid (as opposed to mild) but technology (especially battery technology) is moving rapidly, and as well as improving range is also showing signs of shifting away from some of the more environmentally harmful substances such as lithium and cobalt, so in two or three years, who knows :hmmm:
There seems to be some sort of brand loyalty going on here - no doubt due to the good experiences. Just my limited observation, but is there a reason people replace their (much loved) vehicles so much?
Do you do the same with where you live?
Does it have to do with the best economic, mechanical, gizmos or other time to change?
I can't imagine everyone/anyone is overtly wealthy, 'cause we are all N gauge modellers!
Mark
Quote from: Platy767 on December 27, 2024, 09:20:51 PMis there a reason people replace their (much loved) vehicles so much?
Do you do the same with where you live?
the average motor vehicle has a much shorter design life than a house... (Even a Barratt shoe-box...)
Quote from: PLD on December 27, 2024, 09:35:24 PMQuote from: Platy767 on December 27, 2024, 09:20:51 PMis there a reason people replace their (much loved) vehicles so much?
Do you do the same with where you live?
the average motor vehicle has a much shorter design life than a house... (Even a Barratt shoe-box...)
Quite so, but people dispose of vehicles before they are life expired and move houses before they fall down around them.
I had a Toyota Celica for 15 years and loved it. The only reason I got rid of it was because the upholstery degraded so badly in the Aussie UV, that I had to drive it standing up ;)
A subsequent Mitsubishi Magna was total crap, so a return to a little Toyota Corolla was deemed to be the right path.
Best car I've ever had.
So the answer to Mark's question is, yes. :beers:
Quote from: emjaybee on December 27, 2024, 09:07:40 AMI know!
It's modern automatic gearboxes. The Golf has a seven speed 'box & a more fuel efficient engine.
The vehicle it replaced was a 1.6ltr 2014 manual Golf hatchback. It was less fuel efficient.
If it's any consolation I've got a 2.0 litre 2019 Golf with the 7-speed DSG 'box and the long term average is a whopping 32mpg, so it's not
just modern gearboxes! ;)
A big appeal for me on hybrid vs EV is that the hybrids at least have retained a semblance of similarity in price to their ICE equivalents, whilst EVs seem to all be £10k+ more, and that buys a lot of petrol. For me I'd go plug-in hybrid, but we do have the ability to charge at home.
Quote from: Railwaygun on December 27, 2024, 04:42:54 PMmy Hybrid Jazz does 60mpg, and has 600m range! It has an enormous boot area ( 5 door) area ( rear seats fold flat) an Honda reliability ( I'm on my 4th jazz!)
so no range anxiety!!
Agreed. Bought a Honda Jazz Advance Sport last year. This Christmas used just 1/2 tank to journey Oxford-Bridgewater-Oxford.
Quote from: njee20 on December 28, 2024, 01:20:48 AMQuote from: emjaybee on December 27, 2024, 09:07:40 AMI know!
It's modern automatic gearboxes. The Golf has a seven speed 'box & a more fuel efficient engine.
The vehicle it replaced was a 1.6ltr 2014 manual Golf hatchback. It was less fuel efficient.
If it's any consolation I've got a 2.0 litre 2019 Golf with the 7-speed DSG 'box and the long term average is a whopping 32mpg, so it's not just modern gearboxes! ;)
A big appeal for me on hybrid vs EV is that the hybrids at least have retained a semblance of similarity in price to their ICE equivalents, whilst EVs seem to all be £10k+ more, and that buys a lot of petrol. For me I'd go plug-in hybrid, but we do have the ability to charge at home.
Seriously?
My wife's Golf has NEVER done less than 55mpg.
It was only that low because she was driving in 'Sport' mode and hadn't realised.
Yep, but it's a Golf R, so it's 4WD, and has 300bhp! Use of "race" mode will happily see you into the low 20s, no use whatsoever on public roads, mind!
Quote from: njee20 on December 28, 2024, 01:19:11 PMYep, but it's a Golf R, so it's 4WD, and has 300bhp! Use of "race" mode will happily see you into the low 20s, no use whatsoever on public roads, mind!
Ah.
Self-inflicted then.
Quote from: Bealman on December 28, 2024, 01:11:07 AMI had a Toyota Celica for 15 years and loved it. The only reason I got rid of it was because the upholstery degraded so badly in the Aussie UV, that I had to drive it standing up ;)
A subsequent Mitsubishi Magna was total crap, so a return to a little Toyota Corolla was deemed to be the right path.
Best car I've ever had.
So the answer to Mark's question is, yes. :beers:
Quite so, George with your Magna. It must have been a Monday or Friday manufacture. I'm still running my 1997 Magna which has now clocked up 385,000 km and is still going strong. On its third clutch mind you, and several brake servicings, cooling system hose replacements, new batteries etc. mind you, but it has been the toughest and most reliable car I have ever owned.
From my Magna I jumped into a Tesla two years ago. I know with Elon Musk's latest antics, Tesla may not be be everyone'e favourite car, but I find it is a fabulous car. Powerful, smooth, and quiet and at 25,000 km it is about 2/3 of the way through its first set of tyres. Michael (@emjaybee post #14) your client must have bought very poor tyres or likes to burn rubber if he can only get 7 1/2 ks out of a tyre set.
Where EVs really come into their own is when one can charge at home and where one doesn't have to drive great distances in outback Australia where charging stations are few and far between (which is the vast majority of us motorists).
As for non plug-in hybrids, all of the energy they use is ultimately derived from petrol so basically they are petrol driven cars. To be sure, their energy management systems can make them more efficient than purely petrol equivalents.
Webbo
I guess we all like to justify our choice of car!
Mine is a 2019 AWD Honda CRV 1.5 L turbo, which has returned 7.4 to 7.5 L per 100 km over its life so far, which is around 38 mpg.
It also runs on 91 Octane.
There is a new generation out, but the cheaper versions of it on sale here in NZ have a similar engine, as do current Civics.
Turbocharging is yet another approach to using less petrol as opposed to hybrids, and I think the figures for the CRV are really impressive as this is quite a large vehicle, despite being a "Medium" SUV.
With the current model you have to pay NZ$ 10000 more to get the hybrid version, and I feel you would need to do a lot of km to save this much on fuel.
Both turbos and hybrid systems do add complexity, and potential maintenance costs down the track; which is better??
It's hard to buy a naturally aspirated car these days, virtually everything with an ICE is turbocharged. I think putting turbos and hybrids in the same category of increasing efficiency is a bit disingenuous.
I will NEVER buy an EV.
This is the wrong technology for the future.
Currently I have access to a 636cc Honda Vamos (very efficient) , a Skoda Fabia Monte Carlo (very efficient) and only £20 Tax.
My pride and joy is a Passat Estate 2009 Estate R36. Rubbish MPG but what a joy to drive.
GE
Quote from: GlenEglise on December 29, 2024, 07:58:34 PMI will NEVER buy an EV.
This is the wrong technology for the future.
Currently I have access to a 636cc Honda Vamos (very efficient) , a Skoda Fabia Monte Carlo (very efficient) and only £20 Tax.
My pride and joy is a Passat Estate 2009 Estate R36. Rubbish MPG but what a joy to drive.
GE
Hi
Neither will I until I'm forced to. Have you seen the new VED from 1/04/2025? Most EVs will pay the same as my petrol car from that date £195 a year. They will also be subject to the expensive car supplement (over 40k purchase price).
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vehicle-tax-for-electric-and-low-emissions-vehicles
Cheers
Paul
Well only if they're over £40k (which most are I realise).
It does feel somewhat like the EV bubble is strained, if not burst. Sales are tapering off, incentives drying up, they're being taxed more heavily, insurance is usually higher (and is rising), there's various scaremongering stories about bans from multi storey car parks and what not.
I'd happily have one, we're the ideal household for one, but it has to make financial sense.
Quote from: GlenEglise on December 29, 2024, 07:58:34 PMI will NEVER buy an EV.
This is the wrong technology for the future.
At last. Someone who thinks like me.
Typical of this country to plough ahead with 'going green' without having the basics right in the first place. Never mind cost - there's also weight issues, infrastructure (or lack of), danger and alienating anyone living above ground floor in flats, for example. 19th storey extension lead, anyone??
I'll be one of those buying a last minute petrol car by which time petrol pumps will be as rare as charging points are now, and the fuel will be about £10 per litre in an attempt to force me down the EV route, which ain't gonna happen.
In September this year I did a mini road trip to Scotland, driving 996 miles in 4 days. That would have been impossible in an EV
EVs don't interest me at all I'm afraid, I'm just too fond of my reliable diesel SUV which is perfect for long round-trips fully loaded with my layout for an exhibition or a drum kit and other music gear for a gig.
The rest of the time I can always borrow SWMBO's frugal Citroen, but the funny thing is since lockdown and changing to working from home I probably only use a car 4-5 times a month.
Quote from: Newportnobby on December 29, 2024, 09:38:52 PMQuote from: GlenEglise on December 29, 2024, 07:58:34 PMI will NEVER buy an EV.
This is the wrong technology for the future.
At last. Someone who thinks like me.
Typical of this country to plough ahead with 'going green' without having the basics right in the first place. Never mind cost - there's also weight issues, infrastructure (or lack of), danger and alienating anyone living above ground floor in flats, for example. 19th storey extension lead, anyone??
I'll be one of those buying a last minute petrol car by which time petrol pumps will be as rare as charging points are now, and the fuel will be about £10 per litre in an attempt to force me down the EV route, which ain't gonna happen.
In September this year I did a mini road trip to Scotland, driving 996 miles in 4 days. That would have been impossible in an EV
I own a 2005 Mondeo 2.2 TDCI bought new as Gordon Brown said diesels were better for the enviroment and diesel would be 10p cheaper a litre than petrol. We know what happend next.
Electric cars are not enviromentally friendly as there is no form of power generation that does not have to a greater or lesser degree a carbon footprint.
With all new houses being all electric I have doubts that the National Grid will be fit for purpose.
Electric cars weigh more due to the batteries, in the case of the new Rolls Royce 1000kg more than a Silver Shadow. The new model requires stronger metal and stronger tyres to take the weight thus a higher carbon footprint in manufacture.
What concerns me is the battery.
Figures have been quoted by various sources of a replacement cost of £10K upwards, how will this reflect on the resale value of a 7 year old car out of warranty. If a claim is made under warranty when the car is five years old will the manufacturers pay the full cost or like insurance companies add a betterment fee i.e., you have had five years life out of the battery so we will only pay for the remaining 2 years so the owner ends up paying 5/7ths of the cost of the battery.
There are reports on You Tube of brand new vehicles being written off due to underfloor damage requiring a battery replacement which exceeds the purchase price of the vehicle.
I dread to think what would happen if somebody was foolish enough and they are about to drive an electric car through flood water especially the models with 600v battery packs.
Charging is another problem, if you can not charge at home it becomes expensive, also bear in mind the charging rate is determined by the cars computer not the charging post.
If the car takes 20 minutes to charge and you are last in a queue of 6 each taking 20 minutes to recharge you will be sat there for 2 hours until you are charged.
When I am in a filling station the longest I have queued is 30 minutes and with a near empty tank I can put a range of nearly 600 miles in my tank in less than 3 minutes using pay ay pump and all I need is a Credit Card no Apps needed.
If you run out of charge on the road then an expensive recovery is involved, you can not top up the battery at the side of the road that easily.
Finally my car with an empty tank weighs less than with a full one, with an all electric car it weighs the same with a flat battery or a full charged one.
Geoff
With reference to the increased weight of EVs, I have a friend who has an EV, and it let him down requiring a recovery truck to transport it to the nearest repair provider. He called his breakdown service, told them all the details including the vehicle he was driving. After around an hour a recovery truck turned up, the driver took one look at the car and said 'I cannot take it, it is too heavy' Turns out his driving licence was not appropriate as the combined weight of the truck and heavy EV was over the limit on his licence. Another recovery truck was requested by the first driver who clearly stated the problem to his control room. After another half hour or so, my friend received a call from the control room; the only driver with the right licence was out on another call and would be at least another two hours before he would get to my friend. Eventually after around five hours my friend's car was recovered. Following this experience and the very costly repair, he now drives a petrol only car.
I am pleased to see others are thinking about the infrastructure problems and the blinkered approach of politicians to this when forcing us to have pure EVs; I cannot remember any TV article delving into this aspect and really telling the full story of the environmental costs of the full life cycle impact of EVs compared to an equivalent petrol powered vehicle.
I remain to be convinced, rather than forced to own an EV.
Cheers!
I have a Skoda Citigo which returns just over 60mpg. I did look at the full electric version when it was launched as it was about the only EV even vaguely in my price range. It was a complete non starter: every week I have to drive to my father in laws. The advertised range was a fraction over 120 miles so a dozen or so miles short of the return trip.
Charging at home would not be a problem but here is no way it could be topped up at its destination and due to where he lives the only current service station between us where I could charge is only 3 miles away from here so unless I took a big diversion and was happy to sit around for an hour I'd never make it there and back. I would also never find myself better off.
I know there are EV's with bigger ranges but they come at a subsidised premium which I will never be able to afford. The technology and infrastructure just isn't there yet and I doubt it will be by the governments deadline arrives.
Just pop into our town centre; it is made up of hundreds of large Victorian houses converted to flats with no parking nearby. Just how is anyone supposed to charge their car other than queuing for hours at a service station?
Quote from: emjaybee on December 27, 2024, 09:27:12 AMOne thing to also consider when thinking of buying EV is tyre wear.
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the first set of tyres lasted 5½k miles! With careful driving he managed to stretch the next set to 7½km miles.
What're they doing? It sounds like something is wrong with the tracking. Our MG4 is still on its original tyres after more than 15,000 miles and they look like they'll last a while yet. Some of that is trundling around, but some is also somewhat "spirited" driving.
My old Zafira only used to get around 20,000 miles, so wear seems pretty much the same.
Quote from: stevewalker on December 30, 2024, 09:57:36 PMQuote from: emjaybee on December 27, 2024, 09:27:12 AMOne thing to also consider when thinking of buying EV is tyre wear.
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the first set of tyres lasted 5½k miles! With careful driving he managed to stretch the next set to 7½km miles.
What're they doing? It sounds like something is wrong with the tracking. Our MG4 is still on its original tyres after more than 15,000 miles and they look like they'll last a while yet. Some of that is trundling around, but some is also somewhat "spirited" driving.
My old Zafira only used to get around 20,000 miles, so wear seems pretty much the same.
Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger.
With regard to charging infrastructure; some 'back of envelope' maths...
My car does approx. 500 miles on a tank of petrol. It takes no more than 5 minutes to fill up. That's 1 minute 'occupancy' of a pump per 100 miles.
The nearest equivalent all-electric model claims a range of 240 miles and 3.5 hours to full on a 'super-fast' charger. That's approx. 87 minutes 'occupancy' of a charger per 100 miles.
Even at the claimed 80% full in 90 minutes (why does the last 20% take longer than the first 80% btw??) That's 90 minutes for 195 miles or approx. 48 minutes 'occupancy' of the charger per 100 miles.
So, if everyone was to 'fill up' at a public forecourt in the current manner and assuming the same opening hours as present, we'd need around 48 chargers for every one pump there is now.
Even if we assume half of all charging can be done at home/overnight on private chargers, that's still 24 public chargers needed for every one pump there is now.
The local supermarkets mostly have 10-12 pumps each so that would mean something in the region of 250 charging bays at every supermarket! I haven't counted, but that's about double the size of the carpark at my nearest one where they have just doubled the number of chargers to 8...
I suspect it's more like >95% of charging is done at home. This thread is no different to most chat on EVs, where people say "I could never have an EV because once every 14 years I drive to see Aunt Ethel 400 miles away". Of course, for some, they won't make sense. But the average car journey in the UK is 8.1 miles. Even people claiming 240 mile range isn't enough how often do you really do that in one go? Do you do it without stopping for a coffee? Don't get me wrong, the infrastructure isn't there yet, but it will be.
Comparing behaviour patterns to how you fill up a petrol car are pointless. You don't wait until your EV is 'flat', you just plug it in when you get home.
PLD is not quite right in his maths. A typical Tesla supercharger has an output of 250KW. My Tesla 3 has a 60Kwh battery which means that its nominal recharge time from zero to 100% charge would be 60/250 hours = 15 minutes not the 3.5 hours calculated by PLD. That full charge will get me about 250 miles.
I drove my car from Canberra to Sydney on Xmas Eve, a busy time on the road. Halfway we stopped for a pee and a pie and I decided to top the car up. I put 30% charge in which took less than the 10 minutes it took to buy the pies.
As njee20 says, the vast majority of charging by the likes of me is done at home with only the few trips per year over 200 km necessitating public charging. Home charging is easy, relatively cheap, and quick as it takes only about 10 seconds to hook it up in the evening and another 10 seconds to remove it from the charger the following morning. The average Australian drives less than 40 km per day, and I imagine something similar is true in the UK. So, the car only needs to be charged every 4 or 5 days. Charging on those few trips away has never been a problem either as chargers have always been available in my experience. Charger availability can be determined beforehand using an app.
The hullabaloo about charging anxiety and times spouted by EV naysayers is way, way overdone.
Webbo
Thanks to you all for real life experiences and a plethora of opinions on the electric options. What I've gleaned so far across a range of sources is:-
1) Any car with 'electrics' will be heavier - this may affect running costs
2) If you can't go full EV then its likely your still polluting
3) Repairs and breakdowns are expensive - bigger tow trucks etc
4) The long term strategy for electricity supply is non-existent
5) the initial costs are very high and battery replacement costs unknown
My gut feeling is MHEVs add cost to buying a car but can offer marginal benefits in economy and cleanliness so they could suit our driving. A full hybrid might also work for us but needs to do at least 20 miles as a pure electric and be capable of a "best economy" setup. Full EVs wont as yet be suitable in our village situation in spite of Virgin bunging super high speed gobbledygook in our footpaths.
Going to look at the Ford Focus mHEV and the Suzuki S-Cross mHEV to see how they stack up against the Kia Niro HEV, its a shame we do so many short 4/5 miles trips to our grandson/daughter otherwise I would also consider a Diesel with AddBlue! I'll let you know in due course what our decision is :thumbsup: