Just a bit of market research.
Is there a particular type of wheel set, that's not avaliable in N Gauge?
Dave
I was looking for some 5.5mm diam wheels with small flanges on an axle long enough to fit in GRAFAR 100T oil tank bogies. I gave up looking, changed the plans so I don't need them now!
There might be a requirement for an axle to replace the GRAFAR 100T oil tanker wheels with something with smaller flanges, but maybe these are already out there???
Kev E.
Quote from: KevTheBusDriver on June 16, 2024, 09:54:35 PMI was looking for some 5.5mm diam wheels with small flanges on an axle long enough to fit in GRAFAR 100T oil tank bogies. I gave up looking, changed the plans so I don't need them now!
There might be a requirement for an axle to replace the GRAFAR 100T oil tanker wheels with something with smaller flanges, but maybe these are already out there???
Kev E.
Hi Kev
Do these wheels have 3 hole discs?
Dave
For me it tends to be very small diameter wheels which are hard to source for things like maintenance trolleys, loco buggies etc. For example Pairhands used to offer 2.7mm diameter wheels but they're no longer made.
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10445739 (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10445739)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/131/medium_5885-020423205659.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=131146)
the other options involve cannibalising Fleischmann rolling road bogies or Dapol megafrets.
Very broad question I think, Dave. I buy wheels from the US because none of the UK brands seem to sell 'bulk' packs - if you can do a decent price on some 'bog standard' 6mm disc wheels I could be interested.
Fairly niche but I'd potentially be after some 5mm disc wheels without pinpoints for inside frame bogies. I've got a good stock of 1:160 33" ones though, so depends on me selling a load of wagons!
Agree with the previous two comments.
Bulk packs would be great.
A source for smaller sizes for things like hi-rails would also be excellent.
Just having somewhere with decent, non-pizza cutter wheels actually in stock would be an achievement.
Lost count of the number of scratch-building projects I've been excited about only to realize there aren't any wheels available without a big compromise or huge cost.
Not too fussed about axle length but shorter would be better as these would be for scratch-building with a 3D printed bogie. So any of these sizes but the ones in bold would allow most scratch-building projects I've looked at in 1/148 or 1/160 (Euro):
6mm/6.25mm/6.5mm/6.75mm/7mm
Now, how about looking at motor bogies too. :smiley-laughing:
Personally I don't worry too much about discs, discs with holes and spokes. Not especially visible at normal viewing distances. Graham Farish sell wheelsets which fit their stock. Available from Bob Russell, their recognised spare parts supremo. Google GRaham Farish Spares. Over time I replaced any plastic wheels on older Farish stock with these. Metal wheels give freer running and pick up less dirt.
As to Peco wagon chassis, the needle ends of Farish wheelsets are too long to fit. But NTrain wheelsets have shorter axles and fit Peco chassis, so I have used these.. I note Peco now sell metal tyred axles.
I have not looked at the N Gauge Society shop list closely enough recently to see if they have other offerings - at one times I recall they did sell more varied diameter wheelsets. Wirth a look if you are a member.
On the contrary, the new Farish wheelsets are an excellent fit in the standard Peco chassis, and we have rewheeled all of the remaining Peco stock on James Street with them. They are tight initially, but a quick squeeze of the axleboxes and normally they are fine. Some need a couple of squeezes, but we've never had one that doesn't run freely after.
Dave
I have nigh on 100 Peco wagons and am not sure if I have enough time left on earth to re-wheel them all, to say nothing of it costing over £300 at Rails prices for packs of Farish wheels.
It would give me something to do wherever I'm going, though :D
OFF TOPIC OFF TOPIC
Quote from: Southerngooner on June 17, 2024, 01:02:04 PMOn the contrary, the new Farish wheelsets are an excellent fit in the standard Peco chassis, and we have rewheeled all of the remaining Peco stock on James Street with them. They are tight initially, but a quick squeeze of the axleboxes and normally they are fine. Some need a couple of squeezes, but we've never had one that doesn't run freely after.
Dave
Or, as Dave and I have done when changing the wheels, a quick twirl of the Society axle box reamer works wonders if the 'squeeze' doesn't.
Martyn
Oops yes, forgot the Society reamers.
A nice little diversion but we need to get back on topic....!
Dave
Many thanks for your valuable input Gentlemen.
So far it looks like I could tool up to produce: 5.1 Solid, 5.5 Three Hole Disc, 5.5 Curved Six Spoke, 6.2 Disc, 6.2 Three Hole Disc, 6.2 Curved Seven Spoke & 6.2 Eight Spoke.
Dave
Dundas already have 6.2mm wheelsets on offer from Greenwich and Mosskito, solid, 3-hole and spoked.
I've used some of those in the past.
https://dundasmodels.co.uk/webstore/index.php/store-categories/category/511-dundas-models-009-wheels-bearing (https://dundasmodels.co.uk/webstore/index.php/store-categories/category/511-dundas-models-009-wheels-bearings)
Quote from: Mr Sprue on June 17, 2024, 08:11:56 AMQuote from: KevTheBusDriver on June 16, 2024, 09:54:35 PMI was looking for some 5.5mm diam wheels with small flanges on an axle long enough to fit in GRAFAR 100T oil tank bogies. I gave up looking, changed the plans so I don't need them now!
There might be a requirement for an axle to replace the GRAFAR 100T oil tanker wheels with something with smaller flanges, but maybe these are already out there???
Kev E.
Hi Kev
Do these wheels have 3 hole discs?
Dave
Hi Dave - no, the 5.5 diam wheels I got are these:
(from eBay)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314820954029
These fit in a Lima freightliner flat bogie - they run very nicely and have smaller flanges than Lima, so the wagon floor can be lowered. I was hoping to get the same wheels with longer axles to fit the similar Farish bogie, but I gave up looking.
cheers
Kev E.
Quote from: KevTheBusDriver on June 17, 2024, 07:56:42 PMQuote from: Mr Sprue on June 17, 2024, 08:11:56 AMQuote from: KevTheBusDriver on June 16, 2024, 09:54:35 PMI was looking for some 5.5mm diam wheels with small flanges on an axle long enough to fit in GRAFAR 100T oil tank bogies. I gave up looking, changed the plans so I don't need them now!
There might be a requirement for an axle to replace the GRAFAR 100T oil tanker wheels with something with smaller flanges, but maybe these are already out there???
Kev E.
Hi Kev
Do these wheels have 3 hole discs?
Dave
Hi Dave - no, the 5.5 diam wheels I got are these:
(from eBay)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314820954029
These fit in a Lima freightliner flat bogie - they run very nicely and have smaller flanges than Lima, so the wagon floor can be lowered. I was hoping to get the same wheels with longer axles to fit the similar Farish bogie, but I gave up looking.
cheers
Kev E.
Kevin. Hi would those fit the grafar 100 T tankers ?
Under 11 pounds for a dozen is a bargain and I purchased some for my lima freightliner stock as you say smooth running now. Anything on Peters Spares or farish n spares did you find ?
@KevTheBusDriver Chris
Quote from: ntpntpntp on June 17, 2024, 07:18:38 PMDundas already have 6.2mm wheelsets on offer from Greenwich and Mosskito, solid, 3-hole and spoked.
I've used some of those in the past.
https://dundasmodels.co.uk/webstore/index.php/store-categories/category/511-dundas-models-009-wheels-bearing (https://dundasmodels.co.uk/webstore/index.php/store-categories/category/511-dundas-models-009-wheels-bearings)
If I decide to produce wheelsets, which at the moment is looking that I most probably will. 6.2m wheelsets are ones I will make, even though they are already avaliable. The reason for this is down to quality as the wheels I intend to make will have brass tyres.
As soon as my wheel press is finished I'll post some images of them, to see if people like them.
Dave
I think price is relevant too (certainly is for me). I find the Farish wheel sets fine, but they're fairly expensive. I suspect yours will be 'gold standard' which is great, but I'm too tight!
Quote from: njee20 on June 18, 2024, 11:58:44 AMI think price is relevant too (certainly is for me). I find the Farish wheel sets fine, but they're fairly expensive. I suspect yours will be 'gold standard' which is great, but I'm too tight!
Price is something I'm wrestling with at present, so far the cost of the brass tyres has been guestimated @ 30p each!
Quote from: crewearpley40 on June 17, 2024, 08:10:36 PMQuote from: KevTheBusDriver on June 17, 2024, 07:56:42 PMQuote from: Mr Sprue on June 17, 2024, 08:11:56 AMQuote from: KevTheBusDriver on June 16, 2024, 09:54:35 PMI was looking for some 5.5mm diam wheels with small flanges on an axle long enough to fit in GRAFAR 100T oil tank bogies. I gave up looking, changed the plans so I don't need them now!
There might be a requirement for an axle to replace the GRAFAR 100T oil tanker wheels with something with smaller flanges, but maybe these are already out there???
Kev E.
Hi Kev
Do these wheels have 3 hole discs?
Dave
Hi Dave - no, the 5.5 diam wheels I got are these:
(from eBay)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314820954029
These fit in a Lima freightliner flat bogie - they run very nicely and have smaller flanges than Lima, so the wagon floor can be lowered. I was hoping to get the same wheels with longer axles to fit the similar Farish bogie, but I gave up looking.
cheers
Kev E.
Kevin. Hi would those fit the grafar 100 T tankers ?
Under 11 pounds for a dozen is a bargain and I purchased some for my lima freightliner stock as you say smooth running now. Anything on Peters Spares or farish n spares did you find ?
@KevTheBusDriver
Chris
Hi Chris, no, these axles are much too short to fit the Grafar 100T tank bogie. I did faff around trying to fit a pair of 'spacers' in - I tried 2 thicknesses of plastikard and even brass strip, but I gave up and resigned to hacking my Lima bogies for the job. However, all is not lost 'cos I'm now fitting the Farish bogies (the ones I'd got for the job) (with over-size wheels) onto the Lima flats... (just don't ask!).
Kev E.
Sounds like a plan. Bit of a faff but a tweak they should fit Kev.
Quote from: crewearpley40 on June 18, 2024, 08:41:51 PMSounds like a plan. Bit of a faff but a tweak they should fit Kev.
Here's a pic of Lima flr flats, one with the Lima bogie and one with a GraFar bogie - the 1mm spacer could be made smaller of the GF wheels were a) smaller diam and b) smaller flanges.
The next one I did (today) has no spacer at all - I just didn't file away as much of the cast stretcher...
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/142/8908-180624211955.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=142662)
Quote from: KevTheBusDriver on June 18, 2024, 09:22:24 PMQuote from: crewearpley40 on June 18, 2024, 08:41:51 PMSounds like a plan. Bit of a faff but a tweak they should fit Kev.
Here's a pic of Lima flr flats, one with the Lima bogie and one with a GraFar bogie - the 1mm spacer could be made smaller of the GF wheels were a) smaller diam and b) smaller flanges.
The next one I did (today) has no spacer at all - I just didn't file away as much of the cast stretcher...
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/142/8908-180624211955.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=142662)
Thanks Kev. Really helpful
Much appreciated
Quote from: Mr Sprue on June 18, 2024, 08:11:03 PMQuote from: njee20 on June 18, 2024, 11:58:44 AMI think price is relevant too (certainly is for me). I find the Farish wheel sets fine, but they're fairly expensive. I suspect yours will be 'gold standard' which is great, but I'm too tight!
Price is something I'm wrestling with at present, so far the cost of the brass tyres has been guestimated @ 30p each!
I would expect double that
What's the advantage of brass tyres?
Quote from: nick_bastable on June 18, 2024, 10:40:32 PMQuote from: Mr Sprue on June 18, 2024, 08:11:03 PMQuote from: njee20 on June 18, 2024, 11:58:44 AMI think price is relevant too (certainly is for me). I find the Farish wheel sets fine, but they're fairly expensive. I suspect yours will be 'gold standard' which is great, but I'm too tight!
Price is something I'm wrestling with at present, so far the cost of the brass tyres has been guestimated @ 30p each!
I would expect double that
It's not a bad price when you consider the waste involved from the machining process, but they are machined on a Swiss Auto Lathe, so labour cost is quite low.
Quote from: njee20 on June 18, 2024, 11:18:40 PMWhat's the advantage of brass tyres?
Much easier to machine than steel, more conductive
(not that it matters for rolling stock) less corrosive, and easier to blacken.
Quote from: Mr Sprue on June 19, 2024, 09:25:01 AMQuote from: njee20 on June 18, 2024, 11:18:40 PMWhat's the advantage of brass tyres?
Much easier to machine than steel, more conductive (not that it matters for rolling stock) less corrosive, and easier to blacken.
And would slide easier on the rail if the axle locks up :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: chrism on June 19, 2024, 10:15:22 AMQuote from: Mr Sprue on June 19, 2024, 09:25:01 AMQuote from: njee20 on June 18, 2024, 11:18:40 PMWhat's the advantage of brass tyres?
Much easier to machine than steel, more conductive (not that it matters for rolling stock) less corrosive, and easier to blacken.
And would slide easier on the rail if the axle locks up :smiley-laughing:
Why would the axle lock up? :confused1:
Quote from: Mr Sprue on June 18, 2024, 07:57:31 AMIf I decide to produce wheelsets, which at the moment is looking that I most probably will. 6.2m wheelsets are ones I will make, even though they are already avaliable. The reason for this is down to quality as the wheels I intend to make will have brass tyres.
As soon as my wheel press is finished I'll post some images of them, to see if people like them.
Dave
What tire width do you have in mind?
Most wheels are very wide and it would be nice to see 2mm wide wheels, or even better 1.8mm
You could fill a gap there because Mathieson models (who have very nice wheels on offer) don't make 6.2mm disc wheels.
I would always buy them from you then if I needed disc wheels.
Jan
(who would not make your business prosper with his small branch line terminus layout ::) )
Quote from: JanW on June 20, 2024, 07:44:40 PMWhat tire width do you have in mind?
Most wheels are very wide and it would be nice to see 2mm wide wheels, or even better 1.8mm
You could fill a gap there because Mathieson models (who have very nice wheels on offer) don't make 6.2mm disc wheels.
I would always buy them from you then if I needed disc wheels.
Jan
The ones I am working with are 2mm. Will post some images on here soon, thanks for your positive comment. :thumbsup: