Every now and then I take some stock to the club night to run, and have noticed some locos, particularly, the newer ones like the class 28, class128 and 56xx tend to run jerkily on the layout. The next day I set up my test oval with my trusty old Farish controller (from a train set) and they run perfick :confused1:
That does put my mind at rest but is anyone aware of issues with the AMR controller below as I don't want to damage my locos in any way :worried:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/138/264-040124100718-138354597.jpeg)
IIRC Mick, those are feedback controllers aren't they? (though I've not seen that variant with an extra switch on the side before - does it switch the feedback loop in/out like the push button on the KPC controllers?)
In general feedback is not a good thing with modern motors - it does risk damage to coreless motors and other do run less smoothly with it...
The AMR controllers are feedback type and the switch normally on one end was to switch feedback off or reduce it (two options)
I have two in a cupboard in the shed.
Looks like you need a new handheld, Mick!
They're not mine :P (see the OP)
Ah yeah. Would explain the side switch. Modifications by the club. :-[
Yup, I had a pair of AMRs back in the 80s. They were replaced with KPCs with switchable feedback by the mid 90s. I still have them but I agree certain more modern locos (Kato most noticeably) are really jerky on them so they're consigned to the back of a draw. They're ok with older Hornby 00 models.
The KPCs generally are still fine but mostly used with the feedback switched off nowadays.
I've been most impressed with the Kato SX controller that came with a set I bought on ebay. That's giving really smooth control of everything I've tried so far on a test track. A hand-held version of the SX would be something I'd consider buying.
I only joined the club a couple of months ago and me suggesting such alterations at this point would maybe not go down very well. They're very defensive about the layout.
Typical - I wanted to showcase some unusual stock like the EFE class 17, Sonic 56xx, Rapido class 28 and RevolutioN class 128 and they suffered the most so won't be taken again.
Seems Farish and Dapol are OK but I'll have to monitor them carefully in future
Exactly the same experience here! Everything runs perfectly off that Kato controller!
@Newportnobby given the AMRs are plug-in, couldn't you take one of your own controllers along to plug in and demonstrate? Just need to be sure which way the club have wired the controllers to the DIN plugs. Even if you took your own power supply and only wired the track outputs to the DIN plug.
I keep a spare DIN plug in my show toolbox with just the track wires connected, just in case. It also works as the track feed for running my layout on DCC if I feel like doing so :)
Without knowing what lies behind the plug ins I wouldn't want to risk more of my own kit.
It's not a problem now I know about it. I'll just take older stuff in future
Take a circle of Unitrack and a more modern controller next time you go - will allow you to demonstrate the models and the difference a decent controller can make.
Steven B.
Quote from: ntpntpntp on January 05, 2024, 09:52:11 AM@Newportnobby given the AMRs are plug-in, couldn't you take one of your own controllers along to plug in and demonstrate? Just need to be sure which way the club have wired the controllers to the DIN plugs.
Was about to suggest the same - particularly with HH controllers, everyone will have their own preference, so as long as they are wired the same, it's easy to swap over.
All it needs is to know which two terminals are the 16v AC input and which two are the track output and wire your plug accordingly - anything else beyond that shouldn't matter...
You ought to raise it as a possible problem
@Newportnobby, just in case someone else's loco does get damaged.
Loco's ain't cheap and I doubt the club has any insurance to cover members rolling stock.
Ed
I'll raise it at next week's meeting, Ed, but from what I've seen no one else in the N gauge section has anything remotely modern!! That's why I took some 'out of the norm' things along
Anything I've taken by Farish or Dapol has been fine.
Quote from: Newportnobby on January 05, 2024, 02:15:54 PMI'll raise it at next week's meeting, Ed, but from what I've seen no one else in the N gauge section has anything remotely modern!! That's why I took some 'out of the norm' things along
Anything I've taken by Farish or Dapol has been fine.
Mick, A Photograph of my old AMR Controller, showing the switch to the top and its label detailing the switch positions.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/138/8543-050124141842-1384081599.jpeg)
The first Farish locomotive I found problems with on Feedback was the then newly released V2.
Quote from: Ed on January 05, 2024, 01:51:43 PMLoco's ain't cheap and I doubt the club has any insurance to cover members rolling stock.
I'd be worried if the club didn't have insurance that covered member's models whilst on the premises.
Steven B
Quote from: Nbodger on January 05, 2024, 02:24:45 PMQuote from: Newportnobby on January 05, 2024, 02:15:54 PMI'll raise it at next week's meeting, Ed, but from what I've seen no one else in the N gauge section has anything remotely modern!! That's why I took some 'out of the norm' things along
Anything I've taken by Farish or Dapol has been fine.
Mick, A Photograph of my old AMR Controller, showing the switch to the top and its label detailing the switch positions.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/138/8543-050124141842-1384081599.jpeg)
The first Farish locomotive I found problems with on Feedback was the then newly released V2.
The feedback switch is in a different position to the one in Mick's
@Newportnobby photo, but assuming it does serve the same function, definitely worth trying the different settings and see which suits individual locos best :thumbsup:
Quote from: Steven B on January 05, 2024, 02:30:41 PMQuote from: Ed on January 05, 2024, 01:51:43 PMLoco's ain't cheap and I doubt the club has any insurance to cover members rolling stock.
I'd be worried if the club didn't have insurance that covered member's models whilst on the premises.
Steven B
If it is the standard Magnet policy used be many clubs, it will cover "accidental" damage while in use at the club (e.g. it gets dropped) but not "misuse" such as using a type of controller that is contrary to the manufacturer's instructions.
Also subject to (I think £100) excess in the event of a claim, so you'd only get £20 back towards that £120 loco...
Also, theft of members own stock if left unattended in the clubrooms won't be covered unless specifically added to the contents cover.
Quote from: Steven B on January 05, 2024, 02:30:41 PMQuote from: Ed on January 05, 2024, 01:51:43 PMLoco's ain't cheap and I doubt the club has any insurance to cover members rolling stock.
I'd be worried if the club didn't have insurance that covered member's models whilst on the premises.
Steven B
You may be right Steven
@Steven B but somehow I doubt it. I would hope somebody has insurance for any injuries etc. caused while on the premises, but I've got a feeling you run your locos at your own risk.
Wouldn't like to test it with a sound loco costing over £200!
Ed
Edit: crossed posts, looks like the answer is in the previous post by
@PLD
@Nbodger Any chance of a schematic of that feedback switch in your AMR? Would be interesting to understand how its wired into the circuitry. I don't recall ever seeing them supplied with feedback switches but I did buy mine in the 80s. [edit] Ah - RM Web posts say Len Rich (of AMR) introduced the switchable feedback version before he retired [/edit]
Quote from: ntpntpntp on January 05, 2024, 03:39:13 PM@Nbodger Any chance of a schematic of that feedback switch in your AMR? Would be interesting to understand how its wired into the circuitry. I don't recall ever seeing them supplied with feedback switches but I did buy mine in the 80s. [edit] Ah - RM Web posts say Len Rich (of AMR) introduced the switchable feedback version before he retired [/edit]
I am almost certain that it was purchased in 1989 and at the latest 1990.
Asking someone in the know tonight at the club, it appears the switch on the side does indeed control feedback.
Up = On
Centre = Off
Down = reduced feedback
There ya go! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Newportnobby on January 10, 2024, 10:12:54 PMAsking someone in the know tonight at the club, it appears the switch on the side does indeed control feedback.
Up = On
Centre = Off
Down = reduced feedback
Too complicated for me, I'll stick to DCC :)
Ed