Hey sorry for this noob question. But just want to ask, is there any sort of particular point motor i should get for n gauge, or is this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et3vuedbZ98 hes using ( PL10E ) good, or should i get a different type. I was just thinking to get what hes using there but want to make sure its ok etc.
Thank you.
Hi,
So first of all ignore almost everything in that video. The mods that are recommended for Peco OO gauge points are not necessary for Peco N Gauge points regardless of whether you are using DC or DCC.
If you want to switch the frog polarity, rather than relying on blade contact, then I would recommend buying point motors with built in switches such as Tortoise, Cobalt, or MTB. These 3 are also slow acting motor driven as opposed to the Peco which are solenoid activated and snap over very quickly.
I built my first layout with Peco point motors, but after many a frustrating hour trying to get them to work with additional micro switches on a single slip I removed them all and replaced them with Tortoise motors which IMO are much easier to install.
If I were starting again I would probably go for the MTB range as these are smaller than the Tortoise motors.
Regards,
John P
There's nothing actually wrong with Peco point motors: they are cheap and reliable. They are also rather basic and old school. Whilst they don't have a switch for changing frog polarity built in, they are available as a seperate item (PL13) that piggybacks on the motor. Oddly, these don't clip on, you have to glue them in place. I don't like that idea very much, so I use a small cable tie. Although I haven't tried it, I understand that the Peco N-gauge slips don't have enough travel to operate these switches.
Other systems for changing points are servos, available from Peco or MERG, and various purely mechanical methods.
As with many things in this hobby there are several correct answers to a question; you just need to decide which one suits you best.
I've been using MTB MP1 point motors and I'm really pleased with them.Easy to fit and if you do muck it up you can adjust them in situ. As John says they have built in switches for frog polarity but they also have end of travel cut out switches so they can be switched without momentary switches and don't need a CDU to help throw them. I have got some Cobalt's as well which work well but are a bit noisy!
Cheers Colin
Quote from: Ali Smith on December 02, 2023, 07:38:12 PMThere's nothing actually wrong with Peco point motors: they are cheap and reliable. They are also rather basic and old school. Whilst they don't have a switch for changing frog polarity built in, they are available as a seperate item (PL13) that piggybacks on the motor. Oddly, these don't clip on, you have to glue them in place. I don't like that idea very much, so I use a small cable tie. Although I haven't tried it, I understand that the Peco N-gauge slips don't have enough travel to operate these switches.
The SEEP PM1 solenoid point motor works the same way as the Peco one, has a built in switch and is cheaper than the Peco one.
As to n-guage points sometimes having too short a travel for the switched to operate, this can be the case, so I hang my SEEPs around an inch below the top of the baseboard (9mm baseboard plus a couple of offcuts stacked above each end of the motor) to allow a bit more flexing of the actuating rod and the switches work fine.
Peco point motors are basic but reliable. I also use cable ties to hold the PL13 switches in position.
The PL13 switches are OK on simple left/right points, but Peco make micro switches which are suitable for single and double slips.
I only use Peco on my layout, which has two double slips back to back, and about 80 other simple points.
As has been said on the Forum elsewhere, there is no need to modify the wiring on the Peco points before installation.
Martyn
I heartily endorse everything that's been previously said.
Don't go cutting blades etc like the video says. It's not necessary.
I use unmodified Peco points, electrofrog with Cobalts on DCC.
Hey thank you so much every one, i am really grateful for the help. :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
Good answers have been given above. Here's my take:
I use Peco PL-10e motors mounted underneath the baseboard (not directly attached to the points).
I use Code 55 live frog points. You don't have to do this but I always add a feed wire to the frog via a changeover switch to ensure reliable continuity over the long term. I prefer the PL-13 black slide switch (glued to the bottom of the motor with epoxy). I've tried the PL-15 twin micro switches and whilst they work they can be fiddly to adjust for N gauge and also I don't like the "back-pressure" they apply to the point rod.
An added complication is the small throw of some of the code 55 points such as the 3-way and the slips: for those I found even the PL-13 can sometimes be tricky to position so that the changeover switch works reliably. To get round that I've developed my own 3D printed mount for the PL-13 which includes a lever action to magnify the throw seen by the switch. So far these have worked very nicely on my most recently laid trackwork.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/125/medium_5885-020922161831.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=125616)
Do you guys ( for dcc even though its been said it doesnt matter ) mod your peco code 55 turn outs or just add power the frog and not do the cutting/bridging. Thank you.
I use Peco PL10E motors mounted under the baseboard. I have used lots, have taken them from layout to layout and they are very very reliable. On my first N gauge layout I used SEEP points but I had a bad experience as a number of them failed. The most common problem being the failure of the joint between the base and the coil. I also found the switch on the SEEPs is next to useless when using N gauge. I use a latching relay working in conjunction with the point motor to switch the power where I am using Unifrog points. I am considering using the same latching relays on other points to switch polarity so I am not relying on point blade contact. Having said that I'm not sure it is worth doing it because my layout has done nine exhibitions and has had plenty of home use without any serious point blade contact issues. Using a latching relay is cheap , simple and reliable. I use Hongfa HFD3/012-L2 relays from RS Online at £4.90 for 5. Haven't had a failure yet.
Why does this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ugukY6lcn4 and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et3vuedbZ98 this say that if u want to not rely on the blades you have to bridge and cut the rails, but then im being told if you dont want to rely on the blades tou just have to power the frog and tyhe reason for cutting and bridging is ONLY to stop the risk of the blade touching a oversized wheel or some thing causing a short? Im confused this is irritating. Why dont these people just say power the frog then u dont have to do any thing at all, but never say any thing about the only reason you actually bridge and cut is so you dont get a short from ur wheel touching the other blade4
I have never cut any rails or bridged anything in over 50 years of building layouts and never had a problem. I currently use code 55 electrofrog points and have used code 80 insulfrog in the past.
Im getting conflicting infomation and its doing my head in
If you are using electrofrog points you may well need to use a switching mechanism but not always. It depends on your track plan. Also are you using DC or DCC?
There are lots of different ways to do things. The way most of us work is to try something out one one point and see how you get on. You will learn so much more by giving it a go in a small way than you will from youtube. Youtubs is a good start point for info but you can't beat actual doing it yourself.
Yep, agree. I basically followed the short instructions that came with the points, and worked it out as l went along.
Quote from: Grassyfield on December 09, 2023, 07:13:41 AMIm getting conflicting infomation and its doing my head in
There's more than one way to do things. You
can cut the rails and bond them to the stock rails, which will provide ultimate protection against shirts (from an errant wheel back or from a changeover switch being out of step with the movement of the blades), but 99% of people don't deem it necessary in N. I would go as far as to say that it's more likely you'll damage something whilst modifying the turnout than actual fixing anything.
In larger scales where flangeways are tighter it's more beneficial.
Modelling is not an armchair exercise. If you try and equip yourself with every piece of knowledge before you do anything you'll never accomplish anything. Try it. You've been given loads of advice here, you can heed it, or you can ignore it, but trying to find one 'right' way of doing things will not happen.
No modification is necessary at all, but best practice is to fit a changeover switch of some form co-acting with the movement of the point.
The supposed need to modify appears to have stemmed from trying to replicate what is considered easiest (though not universally considered best) if hand-building finescale track in the larger gauges.
There is no difference whether you use Analogue or DCC control systems. Unfortunately, a very small number of very vocal DCC fundamentalists persist on preaching that it is needed for DCC despite plenty of layouts proving the contrary.
So, just to 'do your head in a bit more' :D
There are 2 issues here, unwanted shorts, and continuity between the switch rails and stock rails.
First let's talk about unwanted shorts.
The video and other examples online are talking about OO gauge points, not N Gauge ones.
There's a big difference between the two.
The OO gauge points have RELATIVELY far less clearance between the flangeway rails and loco wheels, as a result it's not unusual for a momentary short to occur when running across a point. On DC this won't be that noticeable but on DCC everything will stop when the system detects a short and sound equipped locos will go through their entire startup sound sequences again. Therefore it IS recommended to modify OO points.
N Gauge points have RELATIVELY much more clearance between the flangeway rails and loco wheels and therefore shorts don't occur when locos run across points (as long as you're not using 40 year old locos with pizza cutter wheels). So no modifications are necessary.
I have around 80 unmodified points on my layout and none of them cause shorting issues.
Now what about continuity between switch rails and stock rails?
Peco points work fine straight out of the box because the rails are clean so when you set the point one way or the other, contact is made between the switch and stock rails.
But as time passes this blade contact will become increasingly unreliable as the blades tarnish and general muck and crud accumulate.
So you can either opt to keeps the point blades scrupulously clean or add a wire to the frog and use a switch connected to you point motors to switch the frog polarity with no need to rely on blade contact. Some point motors, Cobalt, Tortoise, & MTB have built in switches, Peco solenoid motors don't but they do sell switches that can be added to their solenoid motors.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
John P
So i read some where that wiring the frog does not power the frog but just switches polarity, but it actually does so they are wrong. So thats why im getting tripped up sort of. Any way i understand now my head is not so bad. Godbless you all, and please forgive me i am tiny brained but once i get pass understanding ( takes quite a while ) i will be less annoying...
Quote from: Grassyfield on December 09, 2023, 09:48:29 PMSo i read some where that wiring the frog does not power the frog but just switches polarity....
I shudder to think where you've read that about frog wiring, it's nonsense.
Seems to me you're probably reading too much from too many sources and confusing yourself :) Seriously, ask the questions on here as this is where folk who actually model in N congregate and have first-hand experience of what works, what's necessary and what's a "nice to have" for our chosen scale :) We'll still have differing opinions about some things as often there's more than one workable solution, but those solutions will be suitable for N and not something formulated for -say- OO.
I agree those videos are silly. >:D
Thank you so much mate have a awesome day appreciate it alot. :claphappy:
Quote from: Grassyfield on December 09, 2023, 09:48:29 PMSo i read some where that wiring the frog does not power the frog but just switches polarity, but it actually does so they are wrong.
One more thing to bear in mind on this. Should you get any Peco code 55 medium radius turnouts (new, not secondhand), then they will be the new Unifrog type which is gradually replacing all the electrofrog/insulfrog turnouts as and when the production tooling needs replacing. The medium radius are the only n-gauge ones that have been done so far.
On these, the frog is completely unpowered and will require switched power applying to get reliable running with short wheelbase locos.
At least they do have a dropper wire attached should this be required. Even if you choose not to power the frog I would not recommend cutting this dropper off but drill a hole in the baseboard to pass it through anyway and bundle it up tidily so it's not flapping around and possibly able to touch something else. That way it is available should you find that power is needed in the future.
Oh ok thanks for that, mine is peco code 55 large radius, here (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/137/medium_10428-091223034207.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=137747)
Quote from: Grassyfield on December 10, 2023, 07:58:36 AMOh ok thanks for that, mine is peco code 55 large radius, here
No problem with that one. The bridging wire on the underside connects both switch rails to both the inside rails of the exit in order to transfer power from the switch blade to the rails - the polarity of the frog (and inner exit rails) being determined by to which outer rail the point is switched.
I normally solder a dropper wire to that bridging wire, as well as ones to both outer rails and run them down through holes in the baseboard in order to either incorporate frog switching immediately or to allow it to be retrofitted if required.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/137/medium_10428-111223015237.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=137808)
Just another question sorry. Could some one put a red dot or some thing on this to show exactly where i put the metal rod that comes out of the switch up through the top of rail? Because it looks differnent then what iv been looking at. Thank you..
EDIT - AND do you think its ok to just add the holes for switch and glue the turnout down and then later on poke the thing from bottom of baseboard through it or is that not cool.
Wait i think i know, i guess the holes on the side of the part u push to switch it?. Also just wondering how i would connect the wire to the frog on this one, should i pull it out of there and let it go out the side of the track and then at some point connect it, or is it bad to have the wires laying on the trackbed like that or what do i do..
I'm looking for information but cant find it, also the peco website doesn't show. It comes with some instructions but i dont understand them at all. Do i remove that square plate from the bottom and the spring?
Thank you...
Quote from: Grassyfield on December 11, 2023, 03:17:01 AMWait i think i know, i guess the holes on the side of the part u push to switch it?.
Correct - your confusion may be because at least some of the vids you've been watching have really been for OO gauge points and ISTR those have a hole in the middle of the tiebar.
QuoteAlso just wondering how i would connect the wire to the frog on this one, should i pull it out of there and let it go out the side of the track and then at some point connect it, or is it bad to have the wires laying on the trackbed like that or what do i do..
Don't pull anything out, solder a wire to the jumper wire on the underside.
You can leave the wire lying beside the point if you want although it could make it difficuly to get the point laid flat on the board. Personally, I'd drill a hole in the baseboard and pass the wire down through that.
QuoteI'm looking for information but cant find it, also the peco website doesn't show. It comes with some instructions but i dont understand them at all. Do i remove that square plate from the bottom and the spring?
Depends on what point motors you plan to use.
If they will be solenoids (Peco or SEEP) then don't remove the spring.
If they will be some form of servo drive, check the instruction for it. I think some do need the spring removing whilst others don't.
Quote from: Grassyfield on December 11, 2023, 01:54:23 AMEDIT - AND do you think its ok to just add the holes for switch and glue the turnout down and then later on poke the thing from bottom of baseboard through it or is that not cool.
That's precisely what I do - I drill holes for any wires (eg for the frog) and a large one for the point motor actuating rod, using the point in its correct position to mark where the centre of the hole should be.
Set the point in one direction and mark the baseboard through the hole in the end of the tiebar, then flick the point to the other direction and mark again. When you lift the point, the correct centre for the hole is midway between those two marks.
I drill a large hole, 8-10mm, for this. It ensures that there is plenty of room for the rod to move without fouling the side of the hole and also makes it easier to see when feeding the motor actuating rod up through the baseboard into the hole in the tiebar. The hole can be covered later with a piece of thin card to leave just a slot where the rod moves. Once ballasted it won't show.
One thing to consider when deciding to which end of the tiebar the motor will go - check where any baseboard braces are and also where other point motors will be to make sure that there is room for the motor to fit.
@ CHRISM - Im using the peco PL10 motor. Am i right that i dont need to put the motor right in to the turn out like he is in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh5ZbVIjjYU&t=628s at 12:14, and instead its just the rod that goes in to the turn out?.
Thank you Sir.
Quote from: Grassyfield on December 11, 2023, 07:40:55 AM@ CHRISM - Im using the peco PL10 motor. Am i right that i dont need to put the motor right in to the turn out like he is in this at 12:14, and instead its just the rod that goes in to the turn out?.
Provided that the actuating rod is long enough to protrude sufficiently through the baseboard, then you are correct.
If the rod isn't long enough you can get extensions, eg https://www.hobbytrax.co.uk/products/pin-extender-for-peco-point-motors-10-pack
If you haven't actually bought the point motor yet, Peco do make one with an extended rod, PL10E.
You'll also need some means of fixing the motor to the underside of the baseboard, either a PL-9 https://peco-uk.com/products/mounting-plates-for-pl10e-series-turnout-motors or a homemade (or other sourced) equivalent.
Oh i have a the PL 10 E i forgot to mention and also all the other parts for it, sorry forgot to say. Thanks so much for your help mate really grateful.
OK, so you don't need to attach the motor to the point at all, nor do you need the great big rectangular hole. You just need a hole to allow the actuating pin to move the point blades.
Fixing the motor to the baseboard and position it has been covered many times on this forum.
I see thank you my bad also. Just want to double check it is this hole here right (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/137/medium_10428-111223100949.png) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=137813)
Yes that is correct, the actuator pin goes through the hole in the end of the tiebar. If it's as bit tight don't force it, open the hole out slightly with a drill bit or rat-tail file. The point motor will stick out more on one side of the point than the other.
Here you can see the end of the actuator rod up through the tiebar hole nearest to the camera. The hole in the baseboard is about 8mm diameter.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/medium_5885-281119074218.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=84445)
Note: you will need to cut the actuator rod, but DON'T try and do that with the motor in place or you will damage or melt the plastic! Offer up the motor, mark the rod with permanent marker, remove the motor and cut using heavy duty cutters (or a minidrill cutting disk) and make sure you have eye protection! The rod needs to end up through the hole but below the top of the rail otherwise things will catch on it.
Here's a view of one of my PL10-Es mounted on a PL9 mounting plate and with a PL13 slide switch glued on for the frog polarity
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/137/medium_5885-111223103032.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=137814)
Ignore the fact you can see the baseboard hole and rod on the far left, this was one I modified to make more space. Usually the baseboard hole will be above the middle of the motor.
When fitting the point motor under the baseboard is is important to align accurately to that the motor moves in parallel with the tiebar and also the rod is vertical. There are different ways of achieving that, I use some scrap plastic jigs to centre both the motor and the blades so that I can then mark the mounting plate screws underneath. (mounting plate not shown here, I would fit that to the motor first).
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/98/medium_5885-230820183806.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=98573)
I dont get what you mean by motor moving parallel with the tie bar. Do you mean the rod of the motor needs to move parrel with the tie bar ( thing that u push on the turnout that makes it go left or right ). So do you mean make the hole big enough so the rod will move side to side with out touching the hole i made for the rod 2 go in. ?
Thank you so much. EDIT - What do you mean by blades?
Ugh sorry i got another question. Iv noticed alot of peolpe cutting alot of the rail off the turnouts to make them very short, is this important? i was going to leave them the length they came out box brand new.
Thank you.
Position motor under baseboard so pin goes through hole and manages to go through one or the other holes in tie bar. If the hole in tie bar is too small, carefully enlarge it slightly to allow pin to go through.
Secure motor to baseboard by using a Peco mount, or bend tabs and secure by one of several methods posted on the forum.
Point blades are the two rails attached to the tie bar which you are moving to change the direction of the train.
I understand now 100%. Thank you.
Quote from: Grassyfield on December 12, 2023, 12:32:17 AMI dont get what you mean by motor moving parallel with the tie bar. Do you mean the rod of the motor needs to move parrel with the tie bar ( thing that u push on the turnout that makes it go left or right ). So do you mean make the hole big enough so the rod will move side to side with out touching the hole i made for the rod 2 go in. ?
The centreline of the motor needs to be parallel with the tiebar, as well as centrally beneath it. If it's not, it will be trying to push the tiebar sideways as well across and the friction & mechanical reistance can be sufficient to prevent the motor moving the tiebar reliably.
This is a simple way to ensure that the motor is both parallel to and central to the tiebar when you're trying to work on both the top and bottom of the baseboard;
On the top, lay a rule across the track so it lines up with both holes in the tiebar and mark a line about a foot long (or longer if you can) on the top of the baseboard. Now drill a small hole, only needs to be 1mm or so, through the baseboard at each end of the marked line. Moving to the underside, locate those holes and mark another line between them. That will be the correct centreline for the motor.
[/quote]
Quote from: Grassyfield on December 12, 2023, 01:33:47 AMUgh sorry i got another question. Iv noticed alot of peolpe cutting alot of the rail off the turnouts to make them very short, is this important? i was going to leave them the length they came out box brand new.
Can't say that I've seen many doing that, it's rarely necessary. Also, if it's the heel end (that with the two tracks coming out) it will alter the spacing between parallel tracks so they may come out closer together that is desirable and will not line up with other points further along which have not been cut.
That said, I have trimmed a few mm of the end of some of mine where they are close to baseboard joins or do not cross the joins at a right angle. Another scenario where I've done it is when I've wanted to fit complex trackwork in a limited length but needed to allow sufficient space for point motors around baseboard braces.
In most cases, however, cutting bits off the ends isn't necessary.
Quote from: Grassyfield on December 12, 2023, 01:33:47 AMUgh sorry i got another question. Iv noticed alot of peolpe cutting alot of the rail off the turnouts to make them very short, is this important? i was going to leave them the length they came out box brand new.
Step away from YouTube. There is no reason to cut 'a lot' of rail off any pointwork, if you're seeing a lot of people doing that then stop watching anything those people are doing, it'll just confuse things, as it seems to doing. Indeed there's basically little reason to cut anything off them. Chris cites one example, but even that I wouldn't worry about at first.
@chrism - I said i understand now because i re read what you said in particular yesterday and others posts again and it made sense. But now im confused a bit, what do you mean the motor parallel, how do i know what way is parallel in terms of what direction its facing??
I assume that it its because the rod goes only two directions and therefore u want it to be completely straight with the tie bar on the other side?. Sorry just making sure.
Also not sure why the line has to be a foot if im understanding you, my track is ( for now ) close to the dge of baseboard on one side so i couldnt get it that big both ways. But it doesn't matter as long as the line is at least past both ends of the track bed then that would be long enuf?
Quote from: Grassyfield on December 12, 2023, 08:45:56 AM... what do you mean the motor parallel, how do i know what way is parallel in terms of what direction its facing??
I assume that it its because the rod goes only two directions and therefore u want it to be completely straight with the tie bar on the other side?. Sorry just making sure.
Imagine a line drawn longways through the tiebar - in other words in the direction it moves. That line should be at a right angle to the track. When it moves, the point motor's rod needs to move along that same line to be sure it gives most power and there's minimum friction.
QuoteAlso not sure why the line has to be a foot if im understanding you, my track is ( for now ) close to the dge of baseboard on one side so i couldnt get it that big both ways. But it doesn't matter as long as the line is at least past both ends of the track bed then that would be long enuf?
Drawing a longer line is going to be easier to line up accurately than a short line, but the suggestion of 1' is just that - a suggestion. The important thing is to make sure that any guide lines above and below are at the same right angle to the track and above one another. It's simply a guide to help you mount the point motor in the correct position underneath the point.
Ok i now understand again 100%. Thank you so much.
Do you guys think its ok to solder wires / the frog etc with just a resin cored solder and not use flux, or is it important to use flux also. Sorry it's a completely different question im just curious to see what you guys think.
EDIT - Never mind sorry i forgot what i had been told already about it a while ago my bad.
Resin cored solder is fine for all electrical wiring work on model railways.
I'm confused about what wires are needed for a turnout.I have these for my pl 10 motor https://peco-uk.com/products/wiring-harness-for-pl10-series-turnout-motors . One of those wires goes to the frog, i thought this was all i needed.
Thank you very much!!
These wires go to the motor (solenoid) itself. Rules of an electrical circuit.
The green wire connects to both coils on one side of the motor (common earth, or ground if you like), the red connects to one of the coils on the other side of the motor, and the black to the other coil.
Depending on which coil you wish to energize, the circuit is completed with either the red or black.
But fleetingly only! Passing current continuously through the coil will simply burn it out. That's why a capacitor discharge unit (CDU) is recommended - either that or use passing contact switches.
I know where the wires go but i dont know why/what else im supposed to wire up to the turn out. The red and black goes to motor to the rail and green to frog to motor. But what else.
I have Peco PL-13 Accessory Switch if thats what u mean by contact switches.
I don't understand what you mean by motor to the rail, nor green to frog to motor.
The rail has nothing to do with it. Those 3 wires are simply to enable switching the point in one direction or the other.
The PL13 switch is for switching other things such as signals, or, as you suggest, point polarity. It is not a passing contact switch.
I mean 2 wires go from the motor to the rail and 1 goes to the frog. I think i get it now for some reason i didn't. So ill need 2 add a second wire to the frog to power it, and feeders on top of the two wires that are going from motor to rails.
Quote from: Grassyfield on December 17, 2023, 08:18:18 AMI mean 2 wires go from the motor to the rail and 1 goes to the frog. I think i get it now for some reason i didn't. So ill need 2 add a second wire to the frog to power it, and feeders on top of the two wires that are going from motor to rails.
No, no and thrice no.
If you've fitted dropper wires you should have three of these - one from the frog and one from each of the outer rails. These go to the accessory switch, NOT to the point motor itself. These are solely to provide power from the relevant outer rail to the frog, depending on which way the point is set, and should never be connected to the point motor solenoids nor to the switch in the control panel.
You will then require three different wires from the control panel, which go to the point motor itself as per Bealman's post #48. As he says, the power through these wires should only be momentarily connected to the power source (either 16v AC or 12vDC) using passing contact switches, centre sprung two way switches (which are "off" in the centre position) or stud and probe where a wandering lead connected to the centre terminal on the point motor is briefly touched onto a stud connected to each of the other two terminals.
However the ideal way with any of these is via a CDU which takes 16v AC and converts it to around 25v DC to provide a good strong impulse to move the point but will only provide that briefly so there is no risk of burning out a solenoid.
Bt the way, the wires from the control panel switch and/or CDU to the point motor solenoids need to be good, thick ones - at least 16/0.2 - since even a short length of thinner wire will have sufficient resistance to prevent the motor throwing the point across reliably.
The droppers for the frog switching can be thinner if needed, 7/0.2 is sufficient for those since they are only feeding track power over a very short distance..
@Grassyfield it sounds like you're getting rather mixed up as a result of some poor or OO gauge orientated YouTube videos.
Have a read through the instructions that came with the point and motor. The get yourself a copy of Peco's series of booklets on wiring your layout. They're about £1 each and should be easy to get hold of.
These will take you through how to wire your track and point work in a simple, easy to follow method.
If you're still confused, find someone nearby with a layout where you can see a point motor installed.
Steven B
Brian Lambert's site is a useful resource.
Point motor wiring is on Electrical page 2;
https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-Page-2.html
and frog switching on page 3;
https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-Page-3.html
What am i connecting to the turn out exactly. All this is too complicated for me i dont understand any thing im reading. I just want to know what wires i need to solder to the turn out so i can glue the two i have down finally and finally complete this loop and then i can worry about all this stuff after. I have holes ready for the rod and i have holes ready for the frogs, but i cant glue them down untill i have soldered the frogs so i cna put wire through baseboard, i know i can do the putting the motor on and put the rod through the whole some other time ion future, i just want this loop completeted. So if youj can just tell me that and ill figure out this other motor stuff when i need 2 cos i cant at moment.
Thank you sorry also.
For the turnout itself you don't need any wires. I'll take its power from the adjacent track. You can fit droppers to the outer rails of course.
For the motor you have three wires. The common goes to your power supply, the others go to a passing contact switch. One for the closed state and one for thrown. The other wire from your power supply also goes to the turnout switch (the one which actually controls your points), completing the circuit.
For the polarity switch (optional, operated by the motor) you have an additional three wires. One to the frog, one to each rail/bus.
You seem to still be reading or watching stuff which is misleading, incorrect or confusing. There is a lot of excellent advice in this thread. Brian Lambert's website spells this out very simply.
As others have said the works of Mr Lambert are invaluable for this sort of thing. I am absolutely no expert at all but if you're getting confused how about initially forgetting any connections to the rails or frog. Just get the point motor working with the switch and power supply to start with. Once you have that working them worry about connections to the rails and the frog :thumbsup:
https://peco-uk.com/products/wiring-harness-for-pl10-series-turnout-motors?variant=7435676876834
Can i use 2 of these 3 these wires to solder to my 2 turn outs because im going to be using when i can find some 22ga wire for feeders ( i cant find any at moment ) and im not sure what size these are exactly, so does that matter or is it perfectly fine to use these even though not same colour and possibly size as all feeders etc.
As discussed on previous PMs, these will be fine for the frog wire and power to the changeover switch. Not the cheapest way of buying wire, but if you can't find anything else at the moment then use them.
Don't get hung up on finding exact gauges of wire for different jobs on the layout eg. droppers, use what you can get as long as it's not really fine stuff (and even then it would probably work for the very short lengths we use for feeders). If it's larger stuff it will work fine but might be a bit unsightly when soldered to the rail. Just make sure it's a multi-strand wire for flexibility, and capable of carrying around 1-2 amps.
Sorry i have another question. I was just pushing my little wagon over the turn outs, and for some reason it rocks a bit going over the frog area ( not the joint ) and it looks like one wheel sorta goes off slightly for a second or some thing. Any idea? They are peco code 55 large radius turn outs.
Looks like would derail loco or some thing pretty easily if not super slow. - EDIT
Thank you so much.
Because the flangeways are over-wide and over-deep to allow for older, coarser wheels, finer wheels will 'drop-in' slightly.
This is nothing to really worry about - there's not usually any derailments at normal running speeds.
If you are running only very modern stock with finer flanges, some modellers do pack the bottom of the flangeway with a shim of thin plasticard to reduce the depth.
Oh i see. Yeah it might only happen with this wagon but its all i can test with at moment. Cool thanks heaps PLD.
https://www.mindkits.co.nz/store/p/7362-Hook-up-Stranded-Wire-Black.aspx
Guys can you please confirm if this is ok to use as feeder wire?. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
That's fine. Are you in New Zealand?
My bad i only noticed you say that's fine. Yes i am. Thanks heaps mate!!!!!!!!!!.