N Gauge Forum

Just for fun ...

Which of these 64ft long dmus should Revolution (or anyone else) make next?

You can vote for your top three.

I included class 117 although I know Bachmann have made this in oo so they may well release it in n gauge too.

Also I know some classes are very similar and could be done at the same time but I left them as separate classes.

Also news flash they are making class 120 already so not on the ballot.

Just voted for Other as I would like a Class 104 and/or Class 105.

31/10 -Just realised that I should also have voted for the Class 115 as they operated on Marylebone-Nottingham & Nottingham-Leicester-Birmingham services in the early 60s.

Thanks

I believe they are shorter that the class 128 chassis though, but a good choice!  I was trying to just lost 64ft long vehicles.

Maybe Rapido can make a 57ft chassis or whatever the exact measurements are!


Cheers


Tim

Ben has said here (or was it RMWeb) that the chassis was designed to give them the option of 58' units, hence it driving one bogie.

Classes 110 and 104 would be top of my list, but have voted for what I'd buy...


SB

ah ok I didn't know that!

ok so the poll needs a lot more options!!

I'll revise it later on if i get time.  supposed to be working now though so had better get on with it!


tim

How about the LMS D1996 articulated DMU?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_railcars

I'll get my coat.
Ian

Quote from: Thorpe Parva on October 24, 2023, 09:12:18 AMJust voted for Other as I would like a Class 104 and/or Class 105.

Bachmann already do a 105 in OO so I wonder if this would put it in the same position as the 117?

A 117 would probably be top of my wish-list although the Trans-Pennine units have a certain charisma. Personally not that fussed who makes what so a further thought - what else might the Dapol 121/122 chassis be suitable for (possibly with a bit of an upgrade for Next 18 and sound)?

Roy

I have voted for a 117 as used on the Paddington suburban services - back to 1960s spotting days. With some thought by the manufacturer I reckon they could produce models of all the long underframe Derby design variants using the same basic mechanism and body. The most obvious difference would be plain cab ends as per 116 and roof box ends as per 117/118.

Norman

They all look the same to me! Don't understand all those numbers but if its green with small yellow panels and ran in the east midlands put  me down for one. In my spotting days they were all known as 'bog units'!
 :dunce:

Chris

Quote from: ianwales on October 24, 2023, 09:41:50 AMHow about the LMS D1996 articulated DMU?

Why not? Gets my vote.
Oh go on, Ben & Mike, you know you want to.
PW

I must confess my favourite would be a class 22 with some non corridor coaches acting as a replacement for a failed DMU.

117 would be most useful to me, and probably the most popular choice.

I can't help but like the faces on the class 123 and 124 though. they may be a bit too niche though for a viable model.  who knows though.


tim

 :D

https://www.flickr.com/photos/martynhilbert/33269025072

A Chiltern Railways 165 as thats what my daughter learnt to drive in she now drives a 168 Chiltern Clubman .
Bob Tidbury

I can't see the 124 being done owing to the curved windscreen which everyone has shied away from e.g. Rapido class 28 and the lack of an AM10 EMU which would be a must for any modeller's WCML

Quote from: kesdrive on October 24, 2023, 12:12:56 PMThey all look the same to me! Don't understand all those numbers but if its green with small yellow panels and ran in the east midlands put  me down for one. In my spotting days they were all known as 'bog units'!
 :dunce:
Chris

Yeah - we knew them as 'bog carts'

OK so we know the 120 is coming next. The 120's criteria for sales are:
Long life: 1958 - 1989
Lots of liveries: Green Whiskers, Green SYP, Blue/SYP, Blue/FYP (ScR), Blue-Grey/FYP
Wide geographic presence: WR, ScR, MR

Theses are my three choices, and more importantly WHY they should be done.

If we were to consider geographical distribution, the 117 comes out a very high contender.
Long life: 1959 - 2000 (2015 in Departmental use)
Lots of liveries: Green Whiskers, Green SYP, Blue/FYP, Blue-Grey/FYP, NSE, Regional, Scotrail, Preservation liveries (Chocolate and cream, Blood and custard)
Wide geographic presence: WR, ScR, MR

The 119 is an easy win for Revolution, as it is essentially a 120 with Derby ends (and different roof vents).
Long life: 1958 - 1992
Lots of liveries: Green Whiskers, Green SYP, Blue-Grey/FYP, NSE
Wide geographic presence: WR, SR, NSE

The 123 is my choice of smiley faced units as it was WR and then moved to Trans-Pennine operations.
Long life: 1958 - 1984
Lots of liveries: Green Whiskers, Green SYP, Blue-Grey/FYP
Wide geographic presence: WR, SR, Trans-Pennine.

Of any of the options available to Revolution, the 117 should be highest on their list, in terms of livery options, longevity, and regional presence. The problem with any of the other DMUs is they were very route-specific or region-specific.

At TINGS, Dapol told me they had no current plans for taking their 121/122 designs and turning them into a 117. I suspect the chassis is starting to show its age.

Bob

I have voted...

...it appears I stand alone!

 :smiley-laughing:

There is always one. And it's good to have no bias in a vote :)

Quote from: ianwales on October 24, 2023, 09:41:50 AMHow about the LMS D1996 articulated DMU?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_railcars

I'll get my coat.
Ian

That's a new one on me!

They should recreate that for the E-W rail link, they'd be queuing up to travel.

Quote from: Bob G on October 24, 2023, 04:42:08 PMThere is always one. And it's good to have no bias in a vote :)

 :P

As I've posted before, the 120s also worked in East Anglia on Norwich-Birmingham services, though they were based at Derby at the time.

The lwb 'Lea valley' units operated in pairs on summer only services to Harwich Town for the Warner's holiday camp special at Dovercourt bay (and where Hi di Hi was filmed).

I'm not after a lwb DMU, my own preferences would be a Derby lightweight twin and the Cravens swb units. Both these have been made by Bachmann in 4mm, and I live in hope. I accept that under the buffer beam differences, but I use my 101s as the original 'yellow diamond' MetCam units. One day I might try and add valances and horns.

Martyn

I have the only vote for the 114 but I think they'd make a great compliment to the 120 in RM red.

I think you need to change the title of the thread to match the poll  :)

No first generation for me, but a nice CL197 wouldn't go amiss.

Regards,

John P

I'm afraid none of those in the poll. For 1st generation DMUs I'd like to see Derby or Park Royal twin sets but they are 57ft 6in chassis

Well, now we have seen what Revolution can do with a 63' chassis, who knows what will come next...?

err Ben and Mike do. It's a 120 !!!!  :angel:

I've changed it so that this is clearly just a vote for 64ft ish dmus!

next week we'll have a vote on 57ft long ones, so people can vote for them too!

as I said I never knew the chassis was able to be made shorter.

we can have a poll for rail buses as well ...

I will personally hand deliver the results of the poll to ben ando and then camp outside his house until at least the top 3 in each category are made available for pre-order ????


cheers


tim

Of course, we have the EMUs too, the 310 was 65'

Totally agree mick and brian

Would love to see one

Class 110,  115, 117, 123

My Heart says 124 Trans-Pennine units, given their local connections, but a complicated shape to make (especially the ends), small fleet, relatively short-lived on limited routes is likely to limit sales and being a 6 car unit (4 different vehicles) expensive to produce.

My head says the Derby Suburban units 115/6 (plus contractor built near clones 117/8) would be more viable. Many more built, more widespread use and longer lasting, plus evidence of the Farish DMUs suggests that 3-car units are seemingly the most sought-after.

Quote from: PLD on October 24, 2023, 08:40:05 PM...evidence of the Farish DMUs suggests that 3-car units are seemingly the most sought-after.

I think so too, but Farish and Dapol both seem to believe that shorter DMUs, being cheaper, will get more sales and will fit more people's layouts. How many 121s existed in real life. Not that many!

And many manufacturers seem to think/used to think people just want a DMU and are not fussy which one.

Bob

I wonder how much of that is down to strange people like me who like their trains in odd numbers? :hmmm:
My coach rakes are always 3, 5, 7 or 9 in number (layout's too small for anything more) and I prefer 3 coach to 2 coach every time :laugh3:

Quote from: Newportnobby on October 24, 2023, 11:00:42 PMI wonder how much of that is down to strange people like me who like their trains in odd numbers? :hmmm:
My coach rakes are always 3, 5, 7 or 9 in number (layout's too small for anything more) and I prefer 3 coach to 2 coach every time :laugh3:

I do that with wagons, but with coaches that's just weird.  ???

MUs of electric or diesel persuasion were made in 2-car, 3-car, 4-car, 5-car, 6-car, 7-car, etc etc as befitted the need of the prototype.

Good job you don't model the Southern, with almost every unit in multiples of 2 or 4 (apart from the 3 SUBs, Thumpers, and 5-BEL ones LOL).

Even your Laugh symbol was Laugh3. Now you are really being funny.  :laugh3:

Bob

They were British Railway's way of the future, after the end of steam. Well they got that right, I guess.

Quote from: PLD on October 24, 2023, 08:40:05 PMMy Heart says 124 Trans-Pennine units, given their local connections, but a complicated shape to make (especially the ends), small fleet, relatively short-lived on limited routes is likely to limit sales and being a 6 car unit (4 different vehicles) expensive to produce.

Small fleet, short-live on limited routes and several different vehicles? Sounds like the Mk5a which Revolution are doing!

I don't think curved windows would be that tricky - I'm sure I read that Rapido didn't do them on the Class 28 as they couldn't justify the additional tooling costs as the refurbished window layout could carry a wider range of liveries.

They could follow it up with Mk2b/c coaches, then the class 185 and corner the market in Transpennine trains!

As far as first generation MU's, I'd happily buy anything that ran in Greater Manchester in the late 1980s. (classes 104, 110, 116, 304 & parcels versions of 114 and 127).


SB

Quote from: Steven B on October 25, 2023, 09:01:02 AMAs far as first generation MU's, I'd happily buy anything that ran in Greater Manchester in the late 1980s. (classes 104, 110, 116, 304 & parcels versions of 114 and 127).


SB

Nah, these are rubbish trains. Not seen sarf of Watford.
Where are the Pennines anyway? Scotland?

(definitely tongue in cheek comment, and definitely NOT political he he)

Bob

I had a 3 car class 108 and picked up a centre coach from a fellow forumite so can now run it as a 2, 3 or 4 car set :D

Definitely off topic by now  :laughabovepost:

Quote from: Bob G on October 25, 2023, 11:20:36 AMDefinitely off topic by now  :laughabovepost:

Quote from: Bob G on October 25, 2023, 08:03:16 AM

Quote from: Newportnobby on October 24, 2023, 11:00:42 PMI wonder how much of that is down to strange people like me who like their trains in odd numbers? :hmmm:
My coach rakes are always 3, 5, 7 or 9 in number (layout's too small for anything more) and I prefer 3 coach to 2 coach every time :laugh3:

MUs of electric or diesel persuasion were made in 2-car, 3-car, 4-car, 5-car, 6-car, 7-car, etc etc as befitted the need of the prototype.
Even your Laugh symbol was Laugh3. Now you are really being funny.  :laugh3:
Bob

You started it :nerner:

Time to stop it then. Other folk will think we are disrespectful to the OP.

Quote from: Newportnobby on October 24, 2023, 11:00:42 PMI wonder how much of that is down to strange people like me who like their trains in odd numbers? :hmmm:
My coach rakes are always 3, 5, 7 or 9 in number (layout's too small for anything more) and I prefer 3 coach to 2 coach every time :laugh3:

There might actually be an explanation for this that I remember from photography. It's to do with visual interest; an odd number of items grouped together is more visually interesting as it tends to force your eyes to move around the group or so the theory goes.

It's interesting how many principals of interesting/good photography can be transferred to model making.

Just to get things back on topic, I'm voting for the Class 126 just because it's such a weird looking Frankenstein of a DMU  :D

Quote from: NScaleNotes on October 25, 2023, 02:35:58 PMJust to get things back on topic, I'm voting for the Class 126 just because it's such a weird looking Frankenstein of a DMU  :D

Interestingly, I looked at these (as well as the original 79xxx Glasgow-Edinburgh DMUs that started the two window cab look) when revolution settled on the Class 120. Unfortunately there are so many different coach variations between the 79xxx series, the 120s, and the 126s that Revolution settled on the 120 as only needing three main coach designs.

Fortunately the 120s also served in Scotland and therefore stand a chance of filling in as a surrogate for both the 126s and the 79xxx series DMUs.

The third batch of 120s, which has a four character headcode box, is also not on Revolution's radar (unless they've not told me something). There were only 7 sets built and they only served on the WR, so again a bit niche.

Good on you for trying though  ;D
 

There was a poll on a website last year with all of this on, can't remember which ? Maybe n gauge news, anyway it had pictures which helped  :thumbsup:

Craig

I would think that 119 would be a quick win with a chassis that would easily be rebodied.
The power train could be used in a 115/116/117/118/125 suburban option - likely as I have cut and glued quite a big batch of Dapol 121/122 into 116 and 117 3 cars.  well i had done the 3d print forum 128...and Ben etc announce the rtr version - I have two and very good they are.
Yes the 123/124  intercity dmu would be good but easy to spend others money. I suspect several years down the road.

We could see a head to head on the 121/122 and DTS vehicles as a one vehicle project to supply an upto date model.
Robert   

Off the wall would be a thumper or Hastings as a lovely version made for the Kenny O layout and I have several sets of etches.

mind you how about a 210 demu ....or the Irish version, gets coat.
robert
 

Both the 2-car and 3-car versions of the Swindon Cross-Country units (Class 120). I would have also liked the 120s, which had a four-character headcode box as they were used in the southwest, including on the North Cornwall line, but Revolution Trains is not offering that option. (Maybe one of the big retailers will?)

Next, the Class 119 Gloucester R.C.&W. Co. Cross-Country units, both the 2-car and 3-car versions. Also, the Class 121/122 DTS W56280-9, and W56291-9 trailer cars to work with the Class 121/122 Single Units. W56293 and W56298 were allocated to Plymouth Laira, so would be my choice.

Quote from: robert shrives on October 25, 2023, 04:13:44 PMOff the wall would be a thumper or Hastings as a lovely version made for the Kenny O layout and I have several sets of etches.

mind you how about a 210 demu ....or the Irish version, gets coat.
robert
 

Yes please for a 'Thumper' DEMU - 64ft chassis would be perfect. Class 205 2/3H would be very versatile for layouts modelling the south from 1958 to 2004. You could have a unit running anywhere for maintenance at St Leonards in Kent, the numerous lost branches across Hampshire and Berkshire, or substituting for an EMU or as a route learner, or how about the Portsmouth to Bristol Temple Meads service with extensions to Weston Super Mare or Cardiff Central?

Kevin Robertson's "Southern Region DEMUs" also mentions a driver's recollection of three sets running from Eastleigh to work the Clapham Junction to Kensington shuttle. He intriguingly adds, "occasionally one would venture even further, sometimes to the North London line and sometimes as far as Dagenham."
So my vote is 'Other - Class 205 DEMU.'

Quote from: robert shrives on October 25, 2023, 04:13:44 PMOff the wall would be a thumper or Hastings as a lovely version made for the Kenny O layout and I have several sets of etches.

mind you how about a 210 demu ....or the Irish version, gets coat.
robert
 

Now that's one that I would actually buy!

good shout with the thumper! i didn't think of demu when I made the poll.

i think bachmann made one in oo though so maybe that puts off revolution or rapido.

I think it could be viable in n gauge though as they were popular units.

anyway I'll close the poll on sunday so vote now anyone who hasn't done so yet!

cheers


tim

Are you adding a Thumper (Class 205)?
Or Long chassis Hastings Units (202/3)?
Tadpoles (206)?
East Sussex units(207)?
Bob

Oh yes! Another vote for a 205 Thumper. Been waiting a long time for this to be produced in N gauge and should be a popular model

the voting has now ended!

the winner for most wanted 64ft fist gen dmu was the class 117!

that was probably expected.

however the swindon class 123 and 124 got very good votes too, so maybe revolution can consider them!

thanks for all the replies and votes!

even the non dmu and non 64ft suggestions were good or entertaining!

cheers


tim

Good news on the 117. Maybe that will be a Revolution one seeing as Bachmann don't like doing 63' DMUs and Dapol is still milking 121/122 units.

Typical that the 123s came out well. That's because I've got all the bits to make them!

Wonder if the RTR will arrive before I have built mine?

Bob

Yes I wonder what Bachmann will announce on Wednesday ...

I think any RTR Swindon unit are at the very least 4 years away unless someone developing it in secret!

It's a shame none are preserved in real life.


Cheers


Tim

I just want the 120 already on their lists.  I would pre order a green and a blue one. Told them that at Aly Paly last March.  Widespread units including the 7 based around Aberdeen!

Quote from: Dalek on October 25, 2023, 04:02:34 PMThere was a poll on a website last year with all of this on, can't remember which ? Maybe n gauge news, anyway it had pictures which helped  :thumbsup:

Craig

https://www.ngaugenews.com/post/2022-ngn-diesel-electric-poll-the-results

Also what about the 201/202/203/205/207 Thumpers?

Quote from: GrahamB on October 31, 2023, 07:41:12 AMAlso what about the 201/202/203/205/207 Thumpers?

The Thumpers are DEMU (diesel-electric multiple-units) and worthy of a poll of their own! (along with one each for DC and AC MU's).


SB

We can have a poll for EMUs, DEMU, BEMUs, petrol electric, horse drawn and anything else as well!

I'm really getting into polls, and they generate fun discussions...

They are not intended to be serious surveys, just for entertainment purposes.  Maybe some results indicate what is popular though if manufacturers want to take note.

Cheers


Tim