N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: Adam1701D on July 21, 2023, 08:48:51 AM

Title: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Adam1701D on July 21, 2023, 08:48:51 AM
At last it can be revealed - new N Gauge Class 87 from Dapol.

https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-class-87-announced (https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-class-87-announced)
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Steven B on July 21, 2023, 09:25:11 AM
May I be the first to say:
"Yay!"


And also:
"Why aren't you doing the livery I want most?"  :no:


Steven B
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: SD35 on July 21, 2023, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: Adam1701D on July 21, 2023, 08:48:51 AMAt last it can be revealed - new N Gauge Class 87 from Dapol.

https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-class-87-announced (https://www.dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/n-gauge-class-87-announced)


"You're gonna need a bigger fiddle yard!"
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 21, 2023, 09:30:34 AM
Blue one for me
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: njee20 on July 21, 2023, 09:44:36 AM
Not one I need, although I may get a swallow one given Royal Sovereign roams around, but it's great to see.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: CaleyDave on July 21, 2023, 11:50:58 AM
Nice selection of Launch Liveries and I Welcome the addition of a new 87.

I have one of every other Caledonian Sleeper Liveried locomotive, so it would be rude not to.

I doubt it will take me long to cave in and Buy one in Executive (And friend since its in the twin pack), would look good with a rerun of matching Executive Mk3's sporting the MK3A roof vents.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: StufromEGDL on July 21, 2023, 12:24:46 PM
Hi Gang,

A big tick in the box from me for this one. I'll definately be getting the twin pack and then see from there.
87101 Stephenson is interesting....will it have the roof mods. If it does and is feasible, then there are a few good liveries for this one too.
NSE/LNWR and GBRF embellishments lend themselves to dealer specials...

Look forward to seeing them progress quickly.

Later,
Stu from EGVN
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Adam1701D on July 21, 2023, 12:27:57 PM
Quote from: StufromEGDL on July 21, 2023, 12:24:46 PMHi Gang,

A big tick in the box from me for this one. I'll definately be getting the twin pack and then see from there.
87101 Stephenson is interesting....will it have the roof mods. If it does and is feasible, then there are a few good liveries for this one too.
NSE/LNWR and GBRF embellishments lend themselves to dealer specials...

Look forward to seeing them progress quickly.

Later,
Stu from EGVN
87101 does indeed have the correct roof and the extra vent on the cab roofs. Has to be done properly, or not at all  :D
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Steven B on July 21, 2023, 12:35:15 PM
@Adam1701D

Will the 87 have a Next18 decoder socket (or like Revolution are you looking at the Next 28 (ESU E24) socket) and are we likely to see a re-run of Mk3s to go with it?


Steven B.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: jpendle on July 21, 2023, 06:23:14 PM
What can I say that already hasn't been said  :D

Fantastic announcement, maybe time to dust off the mouldings for the Dapol OHLE and add some portals?  :hmmm:

Good to see more WCML stock. It's out of my timeframe but I can see one being acquired.

Now Dapol just need to shrink ray the CL88.  :laugh3:

BTW @Adam1701D my companies web security thinks the Dapol site is malware.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: gc4946 on July 21, 2023, 07:45:55 PM
It makes sense for Dapol, because 87s were derived from class 86s, and forestalls Farish introducing a class 87.
I hope they'll produce 87009 City of Birmingham at some stage, ideally in InterCity swallow or Virgin livery!
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Graham on July 21, 2023, 08:57:28 PM
Looks like at least one of these will be heading down under to me.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: davidinyork on July 21, 2023, 10:10:38 PM
Good to see - always expected this to happen as it fits well with the Mk3s and DVT which Dapol also do.

Dapol are probably already aware of this, but the first blue one in the illustration has the wrong pantograph!
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: CaleyDave on July 21, 2023, 10:21:15 PM
Quote from: davidinyork on July 21, 2023, 10:10:38 PMDapol are probably already aware of this, but the first blue one in the illustration has the wrong pantograph!

Unless I am missing something, I don't think its wrong, just a later version of the locomotive:

1983 with Cross-Arm Pantograph:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tibshelf/22981357395/
1987 with High-Speed Pantograph:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/martynhilbert/30176347220/
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Adam1701D on July 22, 2023, 10:25:55 AM
Thank you for all the feedback. I decided to go with the high-speed pantograph on blue 87031, so it would be at home with blue/grey or Executive liveried stock.

There is plenty of scope for future batches and I would like to do an unnamed blue version with a cross-arm pantograph. trying to choose 7 variants (8, if you include the twin pack) for such a long-lived class has been a challenge.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: SD35 on July 22, 2023, 11:11:00 AM
Brilliant, thanks Adam.  I am pretty chuffed with this announcement.  :thumbsup:

Plenty of scope for a second batch/shop specials with IC Exec, IC Mainline, RFD 101, etc.  It's nailed on I'll have be having five of that first batch but if there's an off the shelf suitable diamond pantograph readily available at the time, I think another three blue ones would be added to the fleet.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Dr Al on July 22, 2023, 11:47:43 AM
Presumably this is based on the Class 86 chassis? If so, then it should be an excellent runner.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: StufromEGDL on July 22, 2023, 01:49:52 PM

87101 does indeed have the correct roof and the extra vent on the cab roofs. Has to be done properly, or not at all  :D
[/quote]

hi Adam;

That's really good to know. Whilst I wont want the iteration of it with the cross-arm Panto, I may wait to see what later versions transpire.
Good luck with the development...

As Neal says, we now need an 85 too...or an 88??

Laters;
Stu from EGVN
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Steven B on July 24, 2023, 03:13:57 PM
If it helps anyone choose:
(based on Flickr searches within my era of interest - late 1980s).



Steven B.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: BramptonBranch on July 25, 2023, 03:08:07 PM
I notice that the BR blue version is Stephenson, a short lived Farish version of the loco was produced?

Wouldn't mind another 87 mind!

Andy
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: PaulCheffus on July 25, 2023, 04:54:57 PM
Quote from: BramptonBranch on July 25, 2023, 03:08:07 PMI notice that the BR blue version is Stephenson, a short lived Farish version of the loco was produced?

Wouldn't mind another 87 mind!

Andy

Hi

However it wouldn't have had the correct roof.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Steven B on July 26, 2023, 09:30:56 AM
Dapol have a good choice for liveries for future batches. In addition to original BR blue with the cross arm pantograph there's:

"Standard" Intercity Executive:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/422/18865927614_31960859dd_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uK7P13)
87001. (https://flic.kr/p/uK7P13) by David Hopkins (https://www.flickr.com/photos/117309723@N02/), on Flickr

Porterbrook Purple:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3846/14922175431_823f2488aa_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oJC3SK)
87002 (https://flic.kr/p/oJC3SK) by Philip Wheldale (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94823469@N03/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52887258649_417293d4cd_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozt2r4)
87002. (https://flic.kr/p/2ozt2r4) by curly42 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/curly42/), on Flickr

Railfreight Distribution:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7503/15783276498_f1920044d8_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q3HqdS)
87101 (https://flic.kr/p/q3HqdS) by GeorgecRichards (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99291546@N06/), on Flickr

Virgin Trains "Large logo" blue:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3020/2822762022_1171fb6325_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/5iroNJ)
87006 (https://flic.kr/p/5iroNJ) by rob50037 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rob50037/), on Flickr

Cotswold Rail
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51897466701_be2fd4503a_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n515LD)
87007 (https://flic.kr/p/2n515LD) by 54A Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/184063238@N07/), on Flickr

Virgin Trains' Network South East (for London 2012 Olympic games)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7490/15732896595_5052fd3712_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pYgd2R)
87012_190305Z (https://flic.kr/p/pYgd2R) by Gareth Higgins (https://www.flickr.com/photos/128945275@N05/), on Flickr



For me, it has to be 87007 City of Manchester in I/C Exec please Adam/Dapol
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51998425552_7714e97f5e_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ndVwju)
87007 Preston 31.10.91 (https://flic.kr/p/2ndVwju) by Pete Leathard (https://www.flickr.com/photos/192154161@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Crompton Power on July 26, 2023, 11:12:19 AM
Thanks for this Steven, a useful list.

I'm tempted by 87031 but for my era it will need RCH cables added, easily done with some etches I have.
Looking through flickr RCH cables were present during 1987 and 88.

Cheers,

Keith.

Quote from: Steven B on July 24, 2023, 03:13:57 PMIf it helps anyone choose:
  • 87 031 (Hal'o'the Wynd) - carried BR Blue with high speed pantograph until 1988.
  • 87 017 (Iron Duke) - Received Intercity Swallow in 1994
  • 87 101 (Stephenson) - was in BR blue with cross-arm pantograph in 1985, but switched to high-speed version by 1987.
  • 87 006 (City of Glasgow) - switched from experimental exec dark grey to Intercity Exec in 1984.
  • 87 012 (Coeur de Lyon) - switched from experimental intercity to standard Intercity Exec in 1987/88 and was in Swallow by 1998.
(based on Flickr searches within my era of interest - late 1980s).



Steven B.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Crompton Power on July 26, 2023, 11:34:10 AM
A few more for Adam and the team at Dapol to consider.

There was also 87019 in Black around the same time as the NSE version.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7831/46339950915_1fee2eb34b_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dAUmWX)87019 (https://flic.kr/p/2dAUmWX) by Keith  Valla (https://www.flickr.com/photos/keith-v/), on Flickr

A version of I/C executive with a full yellow end below the windows.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/8663463692_608aab6ffc_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ecyvVE)Sir Winston Passing The Foxgloves. (https://flic.kr/p/ecyvVE) by Neil Harvey 156 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/neil_harvey_railway_photos/), on Flickr

Variation on I/C Swallow, full yellow ends, red nameplates and no swallow logo, before the MU cables were removed from the fleet.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/6151/6211454705_e1b9a1c6e4_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/asTk5D)87009 (https://flic.kr/p/asTk5D) by peter cheshire (https://www.flickr.com/photos/40011/), on Flickr

Certainly lots of choices for the future.

Cheers,

Keith.


Quote from: Steven B on July 26, 2023, 09:30:56 AMDapol have a good choice for liveries for future batches. In addition to original BR blue with the cross arm pantograph there's:

"Standard" Intercity Executive:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/422/18865927614_31960859dd_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uK7P13)
87001. (https://flic.kr/p/uK7P13) by David Hopkins (https://www.flickr.com/photos/117309723@N02/), on Flickr

Porterbrook Purple:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3846/14922175431_823f2488aa_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oJC3SK)
87002 (https://flic.kr/p/oJC3SK) by Philip Wheldale (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94823469@N03/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52887258649_417293d4cd_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozt2r4)
87002. (https://flic.kr/p/2ozt2r4) by curly42 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/curly42/), on Flickr

Railfreight Distribution:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7503/15783276498_f1920044d8_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q3HqdS)
87101 (https://flic.kr/p/q3HqdS) by GeorgecRichards (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99291546@N06/), on Flickr

Virgin Trains "Large logo" blue:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3020/2822762022_1171fb6325_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/5iroNJ)
87006 (https://flic.kr/p/5iroNJ) by rob50037 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rob50037/), on Flickr

Cotswold Rail
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51897466701_be2fd4503a_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n515LD)
87007 (https://flic.kr/p/2n515LD) by 54A Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/184063238@N07/), on Flickr

Virgin Trains' Network South East (for London 2012 Olympic games)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7490/15732896595_5052fd3712_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pYgd2R)
87012_190305Z (https://flic.kr/p/pYgd2R) by Gareth Higgins (https://www.flickr.com/photos/128945275@N05/), on Flickr



For me, it has to be 87007 City of Manchester in I/C Exec please Adam/Dapol
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51998425552_7714e97f5e_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ndVwju)
87007 Preston 31.10.91 (https://flic.kr/p/2ndVwju) by Pete Leathard (https://www.flickr.com/photos/192154161@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Steven B on July 26, 2023, 01:31:55 PM
Europhoenix can be added to the British liveries:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50825997751_78a7e3fbc6_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2krjwo4)
Europhoenix Class 87 87017-'Iron Duke' - Long Marston. (https://flic.kr/p/2krjwo4) by Martyn Hilbert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/martynhilbert/), on Flickr


Dapol made a batch of the class 58 in ACTS Blue/yellow livery as used in the Netherlands. How about some Bulgarian class 87s?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7130/7699192194_cec5d64619_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/cJmnB1)
87004 Pirdop Yard (https://flic.kr/p/cJmnB1) by David smith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/world_railways/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/1880/43545481025_848d7e5fae_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29kXYpB)
87 026 (https://flic.kr/p/29kXYpB) by Ivo Radoev (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rivo23/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7238/7211504470_87c35c0105_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/bZfR2Y)
87019/012 Pirdop (https://flic.kr/p/bZfR2Y) by David smith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/world_railways/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/1807/42970811411_e9e3cb0afe_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28tbD9P)
87022, Sindel (BG), 20/06/18 (https://flic.kr/p/28tbD9P) by ?????  ?????? (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bontybermo402/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Steven B on July 26, 2023, 02:01:01 PM
A bit more digging through photos shows 87 031 (Hal'o'the Wynd) received it's TDM cables (extra pair of wires/connectors on cab front for working with DVT) towards the end of 1986/early 1987. Dapol have modelled it with the high-speed pantograph and no TDM.

This does mean that there's a gap between 1988 and 1994 where none of the first batch as currently proposed aren't accurate without some modelling (either re-paint or addition of TDM cables). There's a similar gap in the earliest years of the class.

You're in luck if you model the first half of the 1980s - half the announced models are suitable!


Steven B.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: fh47331 on July 29, 2023, 10:00:10 PM
Quote from: Steven B on July 26, 2023, 02:01:01 PMThis does mean that there's a gap between 1988 and 1994 where none of the first batch as currently proposed aren't accurate without some modelling (either re-paint or addition of TDM cables). There's a similar gap in the earliest years of the class.
Steven B.

Hi Steven,
Yes I'd come to the conclusion that smoe renumbering and detailing could be required.  But I appear to have ordered one! If Dapol are listening, the Standard IC Executive from Steven's earlier message would be a suitable candidate for a second run .... if the second run arrived around the same time as the first even better!!! :)

Richie
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Steven B on July 31, 2023, 01:53:49 PM
Want to run double headed with your Dapol class 58? Not a problem:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/63923883@N03/37346074185/
(photo of class 58 dragging a class 87 and train of Mk2 at Nuneaton 'cause the power's off on the OHLE).


Steven B
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Adam1701D on July 31, 2023, 02:09:05 PM
Thank you for the feedback regarding future liveries. There are a lot of these I would like to incorporate in the next batch, including some more of the one-off colour schemes.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Bob G on July 31, 2023, 04:14:46 PM
Don't forget when these were introduced they were unnamed and just banger blue FYE ends. Surprised the original livery was not covered in the first run, because you can add nameplates, but you cant easily take them away :)

The 86s also didn't feature as early versions (OK the front ends were slightly different to as modelled with pipework, but it is still a missing era or two.

Oh and the original 59s have not been modelled either. Beginning to think Dapol has a complex about the first years of any loco they make (joke).

Bob
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Adam1701D on July 31, 2023, 08:55:58 PM
I would like to do an un-named blue version in a future batch.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: BertFredStan on August 03, 2023, 12:43:54 PM
Firstly, these look great. Wonderful to see the investment made, and certainly have much more faith in Dapol's ability to get the artwork right with Adam in post.

I'd just like to note that the "Intercity" word mark appears to be slightly vertically squashed on the Swallow version? It was a bit like that on the previous 86 and MK3 DVTs.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: davidinyork on August 07, 2023, 01:39:29 PM
Quote from: Steven B on July 26, 2023, 02:01:01 PMA bit more digging through photos shows 87 031 (Hal'o'the Wynd) received it's TDM cables (extra pair of wires/connectors on cab front for working with DVT) towards the end of 1986/early 1987. Dapol have modelled it with the high-speed pantograph and no TDM.

Those are actually called RCH jumpers. In this particular case they are used for TDM, but their design pre-dates that by a long way and they have multiple purposes - they were originally devised for centralised control of lighting throughout the train.
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: Intercity on September 01, 2023, 04:14:39 PM
I recall riding the WCML in the late 90s during the Swallow and VT era, the 87s at stations once they stop the headlight would turn off just leaving the two outer white lights lit, once the driver got the RA and started to move the headlight would come back on, will this be a feature of the DCC models?
Title: Re: Class 87 From Dapol
Post by: scruff on September 09, 2023, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: davidinyork on August 07, 2023, 01:39:29 PM
Quote from: Steven B on July 26, 2023, 02:01:01 PMA bit more digging through photos shows 87 031 (Hal'o'the Wynd) received it's TDM cables (extra pair of wires/connectors on cab front for working with DVT) towards the end of 1986/early 1987. Dapol have modelled it with the high-speed pantograph and no TDM.

Those are actually called RCH jumpers. In this particular case they are used for TDM, but their design pre-dates that by a long way and they have multiple purposes - they were originally devised for centralised control of lighting throughout the train.

The TDM jumper cables were fitted in the mid 80's, between the original RCH jumpers and most had both systems until the 90's. The RCH system enabled them to work in multiple with other 87's and class 86 that were also fitted. TDM was used to enable push/pull with Mk3 DVT's. The RCH jumpers were chunkier fittings fitted very early in the 87's life.
I've been trying to find aftermarket RCH jumpers to fit to my 86/4 and 86/6 loco's as well as the receiver on the Dapol 50 which seems to be a class 58 receiver. anyone got any ideas on where to find them?

Cheers
Mark