What has happened to N Gauge steam in this country? The new Farish catalogue lists just four types of loco; their website shows just one currently available and Dapol's shows three types. The new M7 looks like it has problems and isn't even listed on their website as far as I could see.
Farish have produced at least 22 types of steam loco to modern standards (DCC ready etc) and they have all been excellent bar a few QC issues now and again and the odd weak puller.
Dapol have produced at least 17 types of steam loco and most have been to modern standards but many seemed to have had one issue or another to make them less appealing than their diesels.
Other manufacturers are few and far between and now Union Mills is no more.
Can anyone cheer me up?!
You can't call UM models modern standards, but that doesn't mean they were not popular.
But we have more loco manufacturers than ever before: New ones include Sonic, Rapido, Revolution, and EFE.
Sonic has delivered one steam loco to modern standards (56xx) and has two in the pipeline (5101 and J50).
Cheer up! A steam loco will be along shortly.
Bob
On the heels of the lovely 56xx Sonic are producing more steam (I have the Prairie on pre order), and Dapol have announced the Bulleid light pacific is still going ahead, along with a Mogul.
I can't see RevolutioN doing a steamer but may be proved wrong in the future.
I'm really not sure what Farish are up to but hope to learn more at the NGS show in York
I think the quarterly day of "wahhhhh-noblueandgreymk2-whynopre-groupingsteam-whatmore31liveries?-Farishhateme" event is due next week so you never know, they might surprise everyone and announce the re-lease of Royal Scots, Jubilees, Black 5s, etc.
What?
I just realised I posted this in the wrong section durrr.
I am sure that the manufacturers invest their precious cash into where they expect to get the best return on investment. That is the only way they will stay in business. They have no bias towards steam or contemporary or anywhere in between, they are merely looking for the best volume /profit margin they can find in order to survive. It must be that modern image sells better than steam in N gauge.
There is nothing stopping anyone deciding to tool up and make a new steam loco. In fact that's exactly what Sam at Sonic has done. I say thank you Sam, wish him well and look forward to one day receiving a large prairie. I've paid my deposit and I'm hoping it all works out unlike a well remembered DJM project (I lost out there).
I think Farish will always struggle to bring out new N gauge. I am very pleased when they do bring a new item out but I recognise that the volumes for British N compared to British 00 and US N & H0 will always make it hard for British N projects to get priority over other projects. I'm sure the folk at Bachmann Europe push as hard as they can for us but again Kadar have to invest where the best returns are.
Another to look forward to is the return of the Dapol Ivatt 2MT Tank with the new anf from the look of it much improved chassis. I feel sure lessons will have been learned from the M7 and I am really looking forward to getting a push-pull version (BR livery of course).
Roy
Quote from: Elvinley on April 27, 2023, 06:38:06 PM
I just realised I posted this in the wrong section durrr.
Now moved from 'General' to 'N Gauge' discussion
Quote from: Roy L S on April 27, 2023, 07:16:24 PM
Another to look forward to is the return of the Dapol Ivatt 2MT Tank with the new anf from the look of it much improved chassis. I feel sure lessons will have been learned from the M7 and I am really looking forward to getting a push-pull version (BR livery of course).
Roy
We are doing the forensics on the M7 to find a fix for the bum-up appearance. As well as the announced Ivatt, we have plans to revamp our steam range with coreless motors located in the locomotive. Contrary to some comments on this forum, we are not abandoning N - quite the opposite in fact (and BoB is progressing).
there cant be that many popular steam locos left that havent appeared at some time..which is why i try to bash some ready to run models into ones i doubt will ever appear in manufacturers catalogues..
Quote from: captainelectra on April 27, 2023, 09:44:21 PM
Quote from: Roy L S on April 27, 2023, 07:16:24 PM
Another to look forward to is the return of the Dapol Ivatt 2MT Tank with the new anf from the look of it much improved chassis. I feel sure lessons will have been learned from the M7 and I am really looking forward to getting a push-pull version (BR livery of course).
Roy
We are doing the forensics on the M7 to find a fix for the bum-up appearance. As well as the announced Ivatt, we have plans to revamp our steam range with coreless motors located in the locomotive. Contrary to some comments on this forum, we are not abandoning N - quite the opposite in fact (and BoB is progressing).
That's really helpful.
Are you going to help people who have already brought/pre-bought the model ?
Bob
Quote from: Newportnobby on April 27, 2023, 09:28:55 PM
Quote from: Elvinley on April 27, 2023, 06:38:06 PM
I just realised I posted this in the wrong section durrr.
Now moved from 'General' to 'N Gauge' discussion
Thanks!
Quote from: captainelectra on April 27, 2023, 09:44:21 PM
Quote from: Roy L S on April 27, 2023, 07:16:24 PM
Another to look forward to is the return of the Dapol Ivatt 2MT Tank with the new anf from the look of it much improved chassis. I feel sure lessons will have been learned from the M7 and I am really looking forward to getting a push-pull version (BR livery of course).
Roy
We are doing the forensics on the M7 to find a fix for the bum-up appearance. As well as the announced Ivatt, we have plans to revamp our steam range with coreless motors located in the locomotive. Contrary to some comments on this forum, we are not abandoning N - quite the opposite in fact (and BoB is progressing).
That's good to hear. A better tender to loco connection and less delicate valve gear would be good too.
Us Southern modellers are used to not having much RTR steam, especially no 4-6-0s!
Quote from: Elvinley on April 27, 2023, 11:08:07 PM
That's good to hear. A better tender to loco connection and less delicate valve gear would be good too.
The loco to tender wires have been an issue. I now build my own stronger ones. Its always the soldered joint that goes.
Whislt less delicate valve gear would be a bonus I would not want to see it at the cost of having thicker or wider valve gear. I much prefer delicate but not too big to strong but horribly over scale.
Quote from: Chris Morris on April 28, 2023, 07:43:25 AM
Quote from: Elvinley on April 27, 2023, 11:08:07 PM
That's good to hear. A better tender to loco connection and less delicate valve gear would be good too.
The loco to tender wires have been an issue. I now build my own stronger ones. Its always the soldered joint that goes.
Whislt less delicate valve gear would be a bonus I would not want to see it at the cost of having thicker or wider valve gear. I much prefer delicate but not too big to strong but horribly over scale.
I think plenty of people will be encouraged that the whole portfolio of Dapol steam locos will be upgraded over time, I am sure revamped 14xx and 45xx would be pretty popular. For me the prospect of a coreless motor loco-drive A4 is an really exciting prospect, hopefully with speaker for sound in the tender too :D
I would endorse what Chris has said, two particular weak spots that it would be good to address on tender-locos would be a more robust power-transfer between loco and tender and just as importantly stronger valve-gear, the "monkey metal" currently used is too soft, it is far too easy to bend motion out of shape on current models, and even done just once it can be game over.
Roy
That's really helpful.
Are you going to help people who have already brought/pre-bought the model ?
Bob
We are working on a remediation plan and this will be announced once we have completed our investigations.
Quote from: captainelectra on April 28, 2023, 08:53:22 AM
That's really helpful.
Are you going to help people who have already brought/pre-bought the model ?
Bob
We are working on a remediation plan and this will be announced once we have completed our investigations.
Great stuff Adam. Retrospective work costs a huge amount of time and money, so very pleased that Dapol has chosen to go this route.
Bob
MODs - this info might need to be moved to the M7 thread.
Quote from: captainelectra on April 28, 2023, 08:53:22 AM
That's really helpful.
Are you going to help people who have already brought/pre-bought the model ?
Bob
We are working on a remediation plan and this will be announced once we have completed our investigations.
i hadnt realised you are connected with Dapol. What is your position there please ?
My title is "Graphic Design Manager", which covers generating the livery artwork for new releases. Being a small team, we all muck in where necessary - for example, I have several new tooling projects in N on the go.
Quote from: captainelectra on April 28, 2023, 09:17:01 AM
My title is "Graphic Design Manager", which covers generating the livery artwork for new releases. Being a small team, we all muck in where necessary - for example, I have several new tooling projects in N on the go.
Thank you.
Quote from: Roy L S on April 28, 2023, 08:01:05 AM
Quote from: Chris Morris on April 28, 2023, 07:43:25 AM
Quote from: Elvinley on April 27, 2023, 11:08:07 PM
That's good to hear. A better tender to loco connection and less delicate valve gear would be good too.
The loco to tender wires have been an issue. I now build my own stronger ones. Its always the soldered joint that goes.
Whislt less delicate valve gear would be a bonus I would not want to see it at the cost of having thicker or wider valve gear. I much prefer delicate but not too big to strong but horribly over scale.
I think plenty of people will be encouraged that the whole portfolio of Dapol steam locos will be upgraded over time, I am sure revamped 14xx and 45xx would be pretty popular. For me the prospect of a coreless motor loco-drive A4 is an really exciting prospect, hopefully with speaker for sound in the tender too :D
I would endorse what Chris has said, two particular weak spots that it would be good to address on tender-locos would be a more robust power-transfer between loco and tender and just as importantly stronger valve-gear, the "monkey metal" currently used is too soft, it is far too easy to bend motion out of shape on current models, and even done just once it can be game over.
Roy
That was me that said it needs to be stronger. Chris is happy with it the way it is. I don't think it looks that good or is strong enough.
As I see it, these are the issues with Dapol steam:
Tender to loco wires snap.
Valve gear metal is soft and thin.
Cardan shaft disengages very easily.
Pickup can be poor when relying on bearings to pick up.
Tenders sometimes amplify the noisy motor sound.
Motors get hot.
Wobbles
Extremely delicate.
Cheers,
Ian.
For fairness these are the issues I have experienced with Farish:
Not always enough pulling power
Very occasional valve gear locking especially on tender drive locos
Some locos rely on bearings only for pick-up and become erratic due to oil entering the bearings.
Pick-ups not always adjusted properly.
Cheers,
Ian.
A bit off topic, but communication from Dapol is vastly improved since Adam took up his job there.
Quote from: Hightower on April 28, 2023, 12:41:51 PM
A bit off topic, but communication from Dapol is vastly improved since Adam took up his job there.
Thank you. I work from home so am not always privy to what may be going on at HQ. We may not always have an immediate answer to questions but try our best.
Dapol is switching to a loco-mounted motor for the upcoming WC/BB and Mogul, which will do away with the Cardan shaft and give scope for a more robust electrical coupling between loco and tender.
Shaft drive done properly works fine and gives great performance with a decent sized motor in the tender and plenty of weight over the driving wheels for haulage. I have examples by Arnold, Minitrix, and Roco. None of those have huge unsightly shaft sockets or a shaft which comes out too easily, nor do they have dodgy electrical connections. However I do think a lot of the problems people have with Dapol shaft drive and broken connections is down to poor handling.