I was sad to read in the N Gauge Society Journal that the propietor of Union Mills is retiring and once his remaining stock is sold that will be the end.
One wonders if there is any news of some enterprising soul out there taking over the business and continuing an excellent line.
Quote from: lanessend on February 26, 2023, 10:00:31 PM
I was sad to read in the N Gauge Society Journal that the propietor of Union Mills is retiring and once his remaining stock is sold that will be the end.
One wonders if there is any news of some enterprising soul out there taking over the business and continuing an excellent line.
all his stock sold out within days of the announcement.
I'm not surprised. I wish him a long and happy retirement.
Quote from: lanessend on February 26, 2023, 10:00:31 PMOne wonders if there is any news of some enterprising soul out there taking over the business and continuing an excellent line.
Plenty of discussion on the existing thread on here at the time it was announced. https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=57395.0 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=57395.0)
No shortage of well meant but fanciful suggestions, however all overlooking the key fact that Colin made it clear he didn't want to pass on the business...
Thank you for the link although I found tone of the reply somewhat aggressive.
QuoteThank you for the link although I found tone of the reply somewhat aggressive.
Okay, not sure how you read that...as most people were just happy Colin provided great locos for as long as he did, and now at 78, we all wish him a happy retirement.
Yes, some people were perhaps a bit caught off guard by the 'sudden' news...but at 78, Colin was going to call it quits eventually. Just another lesson of making sure you buy things when you can, as they won't always be around.
Fortunately, I have three (3) of Colin's great little GWR locos in my collection, and they are really good locos.
So again, a BIG HAPPY RETIREMENT FOR COLIN!!!!!!!!!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: And a big thank you for making such great little workhorse locos that so many people have enjoyed!
Quote from: lanessend on February 27, 2023, 11:32:29 AM
Thank you for the link although I found tone of the reply somewhat aggressive.
I had another look at what I first thought was a helpful reply from @PLD (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=647) and I still don't think the tone is, or was intended to be, aggressive. It is, in my view, a good summary of the situation.
In my own correspondence with Mr Heard, he has made it clear that he doesn't think the business is suitable for passing-on to others.
Perhaps, like his fellow Manx resident, the late Dr Daniels, Union Mills locomotives are so associated with one man's passion that it is fitting the business is not passed to others.
To me, it's rather like the end of Velocette motor-cycles - everyone knew it would happen but were shocked when it did. However, like Veloce Ltd, the business will close with dignity and its nicely-engineered products will delight enthusiasts for generations to come.
With all best wishes.
John
Seems the end of production of Union Mills locos has registered with sellers on eBay- prices for J39 around £100 and J26 from an 'antiques' dealer £119.50.
Think this is pure greed and I feel like offering the last list price as they are all S/H and often not tested!
If the time comes to pass mine on I'll defo list here on the forum not where these greedy types can grab them!
To be fair, people will often charge what they can for things. Look at the housing market, the rising prices of food, etc. It really is sometimes down to supply and demand, and since Colin has retired - and we all wish him the best, as he clearly earned it! - there is no more supply. So the demand function takes over. I have just happy that I have three GWR UM models in my collection. One of these days I will get busy updating the liveries...but perhaps I shouldn't given they are 'original oop models' .... :laugh3:
Rarity of desirable items will naturally push the price up. That's not greed. People will pay what the item is worth to them (if they don't apply due diligence and shop around for the best deal then that's their choice). If it's considered over-priced by the majority of potential purchasers then it won't sell, simple.
hopefully these sellers of overpriced UM locos will share their profits with the man who made them.
Quoteopefully these sellers of overpriced UM locos will share their profits with the man who made them.
Clearly BigMac International Workers day is making you think things...power to the people Comrade!
Seriously, it would be nice to share but that just isn't going to happen.
Quote from: Bigmac on May 01, 2023, 09:17:08 PM
hopefully these sellers of overpriced UM locos will share their profits with the man who made them.
Can you confirm that if you sell your house you will share any excess over what you paid with the original builders please?
Quote from: PLD on May 01, 2023, 11:58:34 PM
Quote from: Bigmac on May 01, 2023, 09:17:08 PM
hopefully these sellers of overpriced UM locos will share their profits with the man who made them.
Can you confirm that if you sell your house you will share any excess over what you paid with the original builders please?
Quote from: PLD on May 01, 2023, 11:58:34 PM
Quote from: Bigmac on May 01, 2023, 09:17:08 PM
hopefully these sellers of overpriced UM locos will share their profits with the man who made them.
Can you confirm that if you sell your house you will share any excess over what you paid with the original builders please?
No..i cant confirm that as my house is not for sale..neither is my UM collection.
Quote from: ntpntpntp on May 01, 2023, 08:48:36 PM
Rarity of desirable items will naturally push the price up. People will pay what the item is worth to them (if they don't apply due diligence and shop around for the best deal then that's their choice).
It's the same as some Peco locos last week . It now becomes a rich mans hobby - this could stop anyone on a low/fixed income from getting involved in N Gauge.
Supply and demand and reduced/scarcity of supply pushing up prices is not a new phenomena nor is it responsible for making modelling a rich man's hobby. There is more to the hobby than simply buying and/or collecting scarce RTR, and it can still be undertaken for a relatively modest outlay.
Quote from: Bazza on May 02, 2023, 12:22:06 PM
. There is more to the hobby than simply buying and/or collecting scarce RTR, and it can still be undertaken for a relatively modest outlay.
It's not a case of buying rare/scarce models - it's buying new items with over £100 plus price tags for RTR items. We obviously disagree on "relatively modest outlay".
Sorry for going off subject of UM.
Price, especially on items that are no longer made, is entirely down to supply and demand. People will only pay what they think it is worth paying for the pleasure of owning something. Nobody is ever forced to buy a model loco.
At the Bristol show last Saturday a trader was trying to sell two Union Mills locomotives for £129.99 each , second hand and DC , he also had a GWR railcar £109.95 it was in its box - all black meaning it was a old model. Two other traders had UM`s for £95. Some people must have deep pockets.
Tony.
Quote from: geofff on May 02, 2023, 12:56:11 PM
It's not a case of buying rare/scarce models - it's buying new items with over £100 plus price tags for RTR items. We obviously disagree on "relatively modest outlay".
Union Mills are no longer manufactured so new ones are now effectively rare and scarce.
And it is possible to pick up new RTR locomotives for under £100 plus there are still secondhand bargains to be had. Besides you don't need to continually and regularly spend large amounts on new locos. Other aspects of the hobby can be had a lot cheaper such as wagon kits from the NGS.
And some traders have stock they never sell because it's too dear. In the 90's I used to go to shows and swap sets in Suffolk and Essex, and there were traders with the same old Minitrix, Peco and original Farish items on their stalls for months, if not years. Nothing was particularly rare, and I wonder how these people ever made a living. Sell it a little cheaper and get stock flowing is surely better then hanging on forever for a higher price?
Dave
Quote from: Chris Morris on May 02, 2023, 01:48:29 PM
. Nobody is ever forced to buy a model loco.
Chris,
But the requirements of a model railway are track , rolling stock and a loco. Second hand is an option, but without the skills to at least service the loco means another £25 to get it working properly.
Once again, it's the law of supply and demand.
If they are not available new any more it becomes a case of how much do you want to pay for owning one? And not just UM locos, or indeed any model. I wish I could still buy a real running E type Jag for about 5k......
If you think it's too much, you're not forced to buy, and, at least in modelling terms, it's not life or death. But ido agree with Dave, some dealers and also private sellers seem to have big ideas about what things, not just models, are worth.
Martyn
Who would have liked a couple of UM tender drives for projects, but will now have to come up with plan B.
Quote from: Tonye on May 02, 2023, 02:42:08 PM
At the Bristol show last Saturday a trader was trying to sell two Union Mills locomotives for £129.99 each ...
"trying to sell" doesn't mean they will sell at that price. They may take an offer (traders usually do for second hand stuff) or find they have to reduce stuff until it finds its going rate.
Quote from: Southerngooner on May 02, 2023, 04:50:23 PM
And some traders have stock they never sell because it's too dear. ... the same old Minitrix, Peco and original Farish items on their stalls for months, if not years.
There's a regular trader at my local club's show, every year I take a look and he still has many of the same models I remember seeing several years pre-covid (and passed by as overpriced). You'd think he'd notice they're just not selling and drop the price to something more reasonable, just to create turnover. Seeing the same stock again and again doesn't go down well with me :(
Quote from: geofff on May 02, 2023, 05:08:54 PM
Second hand is an option, but without the skills to at least service the loco means another £25 to get it working properly.
It's more a case of learning what to look for to judge the decent second hand models from the rubbish. If buying from a trader at a show always ask to see it running either on the trader's own test track or see if they'll take it to a nearby layout to test? If they can't/won't then walk away.
The vast majority of my locos I buy second hand on ebay at good prices and in great condition. Sometimes bought in the knowledge that a small part is missing (eg. a buffer) which I know I can source or 3D print a replacement for little cost.
Occasionally I'll take a chance on a model which is a non-runner or probably going to need a service but only if it's very cheap (say around £20 or so). I am experienced at servicing locos and I accept there are many who can't or don't feel confident about this aspect. I've had some real bargains that only needed very minor work (eg. my one-and-only UM B12 was sold as non-runner and just needed the tender wire re-attaching to the loco :) ), and some which needed a lot of stripping down and new parts bought or created but that's an enjoyable challenge in itself :)
Quote from: ntpntpntp on May 02, 2023, 05:39:14 PM
Quote from: geofff on May 02, 2023, 05:08:54 PM
Second hand is an option, but without the skills to at least service the loco means another £25 to get it working properly.
Occasionally I'll take a chance on a model which is a non-runner or probably going to need a service but only if it's very cheap (say around £20 or so).
I was very lucky last month and picked up a non-tested loco - sent it to Dr Al and the diagnosis was that it just had not been run-in for long enough: but new items are so expensive - but particularly for new-comers or low income modelers.
I'll most miss the tender drives, I've used quite a few under white metal kits and scratch builds.
I consider my best Ebay purchase a Fleischmann 7161 listed as a non runner, £25, I wanted the chassis for a Langley S15 kit, when it arrived I did a quick test, yep dead, but controller showed a dead short, after further investigation I found the "headlight" bulb blown, removed it, loco ran perfectly. back in 2014 I had purchased a new motor for a 7161 I'd had since 1974, £40, I consider £1 a year as very nice thankyou
If you want a cheap loco I suggest you join The N Gauge Society and buy a Hunslett Shunter for under £90 which is already to run.
i havent yet found the one remaining UM loco to complete my collection...namely the prince of wales in fictitious BR livery.
however---on my fave subject --ebay.
Ive had more duffers this year than ever.
a fleischmann br80 that turned out to be a roco in a fmann box.--partial refund agreed
a Farish royal scot body only--no powered tender stated in listing--came complete with eccentrics chopped off. Thats going back
a nice garratt--but with eccentric dangling free ( i fixed that )
now a dapol hall listed as new--box opened but never used--missing wires--drawbar missing a screw ---motor dead as a doornail. thats going back.
Quote from: Bigmac on May 02, 2023, 09:16:58 PM
on my fave subject --ebay.
Ive had more duffers this year than ever.
a fleischmann br80 that turned out to be a roco in a fmann box.--partial refund agreed
a Farish royal scot body only--no powered tender stated in listing--came complete with eccentrics chopped off. Thats going back
a nice garratt--but with eccentric dangling free ( i fixed that )
now a dapol hall listed as new--box opened but never used--missing wires--drawbar missing a screw ---motor dead as a doornail. thats going back.
@Bigmac (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=847) And what, pray, makes this post relevant to a discussion about Union Mills locos?
Have you perchance posted it in the wrong place?
Quote from: Newportnobby on May 02, 2023, 09:48:45 PM
Quote from: Bigmac on May 02, 2023, 09:16:58 PM
on my fave subject --ebay.
Ive had more duffers this year than ever.
a fleischmann br80 that turned out to be a roco in a fmann box.--partial refund agreed
a Farish royal scot body only--no powered tender stated in listing--came complete with eccentrics chopped off. Thats going back
a nice garratt--but with eccentric dangling free ( i fixed that )
now a dapol hall listed as new--box opened but never used--missing wires--drawbar missing a screw ---motor dead as a doornail. thats going back.
@Bigmac (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=847) And what, pray, makes this post relevant to a discussion about Union Mills locos?
Have you perchance posted it in the wrong place?
and posts 26 and 27 ?
i have now modified my post #28 to mention UM.
Post 26 lamented the loss of supply of tender drive chassis from UM.
Post 27 was, I believe, talking of new locos for under £90 which UM were.
Thanks for modifying your post to include UM