Just come back from an excellent local show, spent quite a bit on modelling materials but once again I found virtually no second hand UK outline N scale models on sale.
OO scale items are piled high on table after table and there were a few brand new locos at the back of one traders stall out of reach but it seems that overall, I keep coming away from shows empty handed despite a decent list of second hand RTR I would be happy to hand over my cash for.
Is this the case just down my way (South Coast) or is this a nationwide issue?
If so, I may not bother scouting around the trade stands first at any shows I visit in the future, there seems little point anymore.
It's a case of feast or famine when it comes to second hand N gauge.
I tend to focus on the smaller shows with club sales stands as I find the prices are fairer but does depend on their members having stock they want to dispose of. There will always be more 00 stock than anything else unless you go to a show that concentrates on N gauge.
Murphy's law will also apply of course in the the show you don't go to will be awash with what you want :*(
The issue with relying in the second hand market for specific items is that your search has to coincide exactly with someone wanting to sell...
Perhaps also if there is more generally less N gauge available it reflects that N guage tends to be chosen by more dedicated modellers with a long-term commitment to a layout or theme, so they change their minds and their stock less often, and cling on to what they have. 00 on the other hand is still the go-to for someone dabbling in what might turn out to be a passing interest, so they build up a collection and sell on relatively quickly...
Quote from: PLD on January 14, 2023, 01:57:04 PM
The issue with relying in the second hand market for specific items is that your search has to coincide exactly with someone wanting to sell...
Perhaps also if there is more generally less N gauge available it reflects that N guage tends to be chosen by more dedicated modellers with a long-term commitment to a layout or theme, so they change their minds and their stock less often, and cling on to what they have. 00 on the other hand is still the go-to for someone dabbling in what might turn out to be a passing interest, so they build up a collection and sell on relatively quickly...
I am sure there are all manner of reasons but I suspect you have made a valid point. I have been working in N since 1976! Though my leanings in terms of locos which were one pure LMR became LMR/WR in Wales and for the last 15 years LMR/ER in Scotland. I noted at Warley used N gauge was not as plentiful as in earlier years . I had also expected the usual box shifters to have more. But There does seem to me to be less new around at present, esp coaches. Though at Maidenhead on 7 Jan one trader had a reasonable amount of used on display. Albeit not cheap! I could have bought an N Class for its chassis (I was pondering buying a 3D printed K2 body.) But I was not prepared to pay c £100 for it. And a K2 was only a rule 1 loco rather than important for my current layouts. Even on EBay it can be a wait for very specific wants to come up. Last year I was building up 2 short rakes of blue/grey Mark 1s. It took a few months to accumulate what I wanted.
I had a major thinning out at my own club show last May (3 years worth because of Covid). And there will be more this year in April.
Quote from: PLD on January 14, 2023, 01:57:04 PM
Perhaps also if there is more generally less N gauge available it reflects that N gauge tends to be chosen by more dedicated modellers with a long-term commitment to a layout or theme, so they change their minds and their stock less often, and cling on to what they have.
I agree with Paul. I also think collections sold (sadly normally after a death) tend to go to the big box shifters rather than to smaller traders, and those big box shifters only do certain major shows like TINGS or Warley. I tire of seeing stands with several older coaches at current prices and just take the attitude of "take 'em back with you"
As someone who has bought a lot of stuff at shows in the last five years or so I'm not sure if things have changed. It's always been feast or famine. From my first time in N in the late 80's to mids 00's the same applied, but there;'s obviously more old stock around now. I've had some fabulous bargains at shows, but also on ebay and in shops. It is just the luck of the draw.......
Don't stop trying though, you'll find what you want if you keep looking I'm sure.
Dave
This is just my view and of course others will no doubt disagree.
I'd say many people are hanging on to what they already have instead of changing or upgrading. This filters through to what is available 2nd hand. I have looked at ebay daily for years, and a lot of what is currently on there appears to me to be oddments.
For many in the current economic situation hobbies will have to go on the back burner.
If you have been modelling for decades like myself you have likely stuff put away in a drawer or cupboard for another day. I am discovering items I'd forgotten about and using them rather than spend on even more.
The last locos I bought were from Union Mills last Autumn. I was so impressed with their ruggedness, reliability and pulling power, an initial purchase led to four more. Well pleased I did given Colin's recent retirement!
I have no plans to buy or sell anything in the near future, but that of course could be famous last words...
As a Continental N modeller I find even fewer decent second hand models at shows compared to UK N models.
I tend to see the same trade stands at different shows around the county, with little of interest to me that I don't already have. I see the same old stuff put out on the stand for years, overpriced so no wonder it doesn't sell. Sadly my "go-to" trader who I bought from since the 70s seems to have called it a day.
We have a toy and train fair in our town hall 2-3 times a year, I go along every time "just in case" but frankly you'd be lucky to spot a single N item of any sort. Before covid there was a trader at the fair with some good bargains on occasion but not seen him for a long time.
Ebay is my prime source nowadays, I appreciate the wider market coverage and the bargains that can be found if you're patient and careful with what you buy.
Whilst I don't go to shows much I am an ebay addict! You have to keep an eye out but there is still the occasional deal to be had. These days I decide what the item is worth, to me, bid that much and no more. Lately had a Dapol A4, chipped, in good condition for 90 quid.....
I suspect people hang on to their N scale models if they give up modelling because they don't take up much storage space in attics.
In the past I've bought items off eBay which made clear they had been stored for years at home. Several Fleischmann N items not easily obtainable now are in my hands because of that.
I have been pretty much daily checking eBay for years now, and I have actually noticed a couple of things in the last 6 months or so:
1) More of what are clearly collections or at least large parts of collections coming up (sometimes via a box shifter).
2) Prices are softening a bit.
Both of the above are I suspect a sad result of recent tough times and makes me a bit sad.
This trend is also reflected in Facebook selling groups.
I recently saw a pair of CJM WIA Arbel wagon sets for sale, something I haven't seen in at least 10 years. And I couldn't afford them, firmly on my "Unicorn" list though they are.
I think the difference must be WHAT people are after.
Locos, seem to be a fair few of those, especially Diesels.
Very specific steam engines (original livery Tornado anyone?), less so.
Coaches? Forget it. Unless you want a brake.
Just my musings.
Skyline2uk
You are so right on coaches, trying to get Farish MK2 for a decent price.....
Whilst perusing the Bay of E this evening this little set turned up on a Buy it Now
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304765737609?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20220705100511%26meid%3D9fc37053e7de4f8fa0ef4d2b7b86c755%26pid%3D101524%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D304765737609%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2%26brand%3DGraham+Farish&_trksid=p2380057.c101524.m146925&_trkparms=pageci%3A6ef577eb-9526-11ed-8662-9a99415914eb%7Cparentrq%3Ab79cc2751850a120d4a6e445fffc450c%7Ciid%3A1 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304765737609?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20220705100511%26meid%3D9fc37053e7de4f8fa0ef4d2b7b86c755%26pid%3D101524%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D304765737609%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2%26brand%3DGraham+Farish&_trksid=p2380057.c101524.m146925&_trkparms=pageci%3A6ef577eb-9526-11ed-8662-9a99415914eb%7Cparentrq%3Ab79cc2751850a120d4a6e445fffc450c%7Ciid%3A1)
That's 6 Blue Riband Mk1 Maroons for £30 a coach inc postage - enough for a train and it's not all 1st Corridors or anything daft like that.
Nothing to do with me, and I have more than enough Mk1 coaches to need to buy these.
Quote from: Woodenhead on January 15, 2023, 10:49:37 PM
Whilst perusing the Bay of E this evening this little set turned up on a Buy it Now
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304765737609?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20220705100511%26meid%3D9fc37053e7de4f8fa0ef4d2b7b86c755%26pid%3D101524%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D304765737609%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2%26brand%3DGraham+Farish&_trksid=p2380057.c101524.m146925&_trkparms=pageci%3A6ef577eb-9526-11ed-8662-9a99415914eb%7Cparentrq%3Ab79cc2751850a120d4a6e445fffc450c%7Ciid%3A1 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304765737609?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20220705100511%26meid%3D9fc37053e7de4f8fa0ef4d2b7b86c755%26pid%3D101524%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D304765737609%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2%26brand%3DGraham+Farish&_trksid=p2380057.c101524.m146925&_trkparms=pageci%3A6ef577eb-9526-11ed-8662-9a99415914eb%7Cparentrq%3Ab79cc2751850a120d4a6e445fffc450c%7Ciid%3A1)
That's 6 Blue Riband Mk1 Maroons for £30 a coach inc postage - enough for a train and it's not all 1st Corridors or anything daft like that.
Nothing to do with me, and I have more than enough Mk1 coaches to need to buy these.
Yes looks decent value and a balanced rake. Like you I have enough
Only 1 carries a Blue Riband label but, I agree, a decent rake for a decent price which would save a month of Sundays searching for otherwise.
I agree that 2nd Hand N Gauge is rather scarce at shows.
Having said that, I recently attended Toy & Train Fairs at Hereford and at Stafford and was impressed with the amount and quality of N Gauge on sale - not just overpriced 1990s locos with pizza cutters but recent releases, some DCC fitted, at very reasonable prices. Managed to pick up two maroon Gresleys at £11 each and several newer Farish 16t minerals at £5 each!
Quote from: Newportnobby on January 16, 2023, 09:39:10 AM
Only 1 carries a Blue Riband label but, I agree, a decent rake for a decent price which would save a month of Sundays searching for otherwise.
Look at the catalogue numbers and the boxes, Bachmann have just stopped using the Blue Riband logo as it's no longer needed.
Just on the subject of 'used N' at shows etc. In my view, there has always been a lack of second hand N stuff at shows in my opinion, but eBay really is your friend here and there are (as others have said) real bargains to be had if you persist. I picked up a new tooling Farish Class 20 last week (in LUL livery) for £73.....
Whilst that in itself could be considered a great deal (the RRP is something approaching £140 isn't it?), when I opened it up I found an unexpected Zimo MX622N, so if you take off £25 for that, I actually got the loco for £48. Handy it was that cheap given i've already butchered it in preparation for sound chipping :D
whilst in most cases I can heartily agree with you, we attended the Weston Super Mare show yesterday and there were at least 3 traders with a good selection of second hand there all selling at excellent prices.
I picked up a built/painted and decalled diesel brake tender for £7.50! Barigain of the year so far!!
Best wishes
Simon
Think eBay has removed a chunk of stock from shows as its possibly less hassle to post a picture for a fee than hump the items into and out of a show - and still pay a fee!
Not sure there's less N-gaugers about as eBay items that are decent and properly described sell at highish prices and have 10s of 'watchers'. However there are some sellers offering items at close to new prices and very high postage rates (£9.95!) with repeated re-listing so 'we' are savvy if they try to sell on those terms.
One local club had a show with predominantly N layouts and members and there was virtually no N stock for sale! So maybe the trick is to visit predominantly 00 shows to see if they are disposing of N gauge items? - food for thought, cheers Chris
Presumably covid discouraged customers and traders from attending shows and accelerated the shift to ebay ?
Quote from: Greygreaser on January 16, 2023, 10:18:56 PM
Think eBay has removed a chunk of stock from shows as its possibly less hassle to post a picture for a fee than hump the items into and out of a show - and still pay a fee!
Not sure there's less N-gaugers about as eBay items that are decent and properly described sell at highish prices and have 10s of 'watchers'. However there are some sellers offering items at close to new prices and very high postage rates (£9.95!) with repeated re-listing so 'we' are savvy if they try to sell on those terms.
One local club had a show with predominantly N layouts and members and there was virtually no N stock for sale! So maybe the trick is to visit predominantly 00 shows to see if they are disposing of N gauge items? - food for thought, cheers Chris
Those watchers annoy me, when selling they quickly add you but have no intention of buying, they just want to know what to sell theirs for.
Also the number of 'brand new' old style Farish coaches, do me a favour, unless you have a time machine or have found the stock from the Bradford Model Railway Centre untouched, then you don't have a brand new printed side Mk1 coach.
Quote from: Woodenhead on January 16, 2023, 11:58:35 PMThose watchers annoy me, when selling they quickly add you but have no intention of buying, they just want to know what to sell theirs for.
No, if you have lots of watchers then your items are simply priced too high. :doh:
ebay gives the option to send the watchers an offer with a reduced price, and that's why many have items in their watchlist. The items are too expensive but with an offer of 5 or 10% off some watchers would accept that.
How do you figure that? I watch stuff I'm interested in, but if it goes too high then I don't buy. Most still sell. I don't think everyone watching is waiting to see how much it sells for. People seem to put a lot of mysticism into eBay when all it is is a selling site. Everyone will use it differently...,...
Dave
The post Woodenhead was answering to was about repeated re-listed items, so those don't "go" to high but "are" priced too high in the first place – or the would sell and not get re-listed.
You are talking about an item that was listed at a low price and will sell anyway but that's not the kind of listings Greygreaser wrote about.
I watch stuff. Sometimes out of morbid curiosity to see if anyone is daft enough to buy, sometimes to put a bid in if it seems reasonable.
I also have a watch list of stuff I buy regularly although, to be fair, that's mainly motorcycle consumables on "buy it now" and I get notified of offers.
Quote from: Hiawatha on January 17, 2023, 08:18:57 AM
Quote from: Woodenhead on January 16, 2023, 11:58:35 PMThose watchers annoy me, when selling they quickly add you but have no intention of buying, they just want to know what to sell theirs for.
No, if you have lots of watchers then your items are simply priced too high. :doh:
ebay gives the option to send the watchers an offer with a reduced price, and that's why many have items in their watchlist. The items are too expensive but with an offer of 5 or 10% off some watchers would accept that.
Yes exactly, that's my main reason for adding a watch. The item is priced a bit too high in my opinion, there's no "make an offer" option enabled for the listing, it's not something I'm desperate for but might be interested if a decent private offer came through :)
Interesting perspective, I didn't think I was starting too high - I went off sold prices for the same item on other's listings i.e. I priced at what people were purchasing at recently.
Anyway I sold everything I was selling so it's not a massive issue.
But then why did the watchers annoy you? In your case they were probably watching so that they didn't miss the end of the auction.
So fat nearly all my sales have been at club shows. The odd one direct to members and one resulting from a comment on the Forums Facebook page.
The Berkshire Area Group has an open day On the 8th April 2023 where will have a second hand sales table, come along and pick up a bargin!!
https://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/event/24459-BerkshireAreaGroupNGaugeSociety_OpenDay (https://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/event/24459-BerkshireAreaGroupNGaugeSociety_OpenDay)
When I die there will be hundreds of locos and thousands of pieces of rolling stock for my family to sell. The reason why I have so much 'stuff' is that I've modelled in N since 1974 and given the small size of each item, storage space is easy enough to accommodate in my railway room.
The easiest way for them to get rid of all the stock, short of taking it to the tip, will be to contact a box shifter to pay peanuts and take it away.
@GAD (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7944) Lesser quantities but I'm in the same position as you. Mind you, it's stipulated in my will any proceeds from the sale of my stock are to go to Help For Heroes
Quote from: Kettle on January 18, 2023, 10:57:10 AM
The Berkshire Area Group has an open day On the 8th April 2023 where will have a second hand sales table, come along and pick up a bargin!!
https://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/event/24459-BerkshireAreaGroupNGaugeSociety_OpenDay (https://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/event/24459-BerkshireAreaGroupNGaugeSociety_OpenDay)
In the diary. Picked up leaflet at Maidenhead
@GAD (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7944) I haven't told any beneficiaries what's in my will as I might find myself being bumped off :worried:
It is stipulated in my will what happens to my N gauge stuff and, I know the subject is morbid, but I would urge folks to consider what they would want to happen in these uncertain times, especially if there is no one to leave such things to.
Given the value, wise words. Something I should think about.
My wife and I have discussed this issue WRT my railway collection and based on that I have formulated a database of all items owned with catalogue numbers, price paid and description. She has been with me all the way and fully understands what each item is potentially worth should I expire before her and won't be scammed by dealers. She is also fully aware of the total cost of the layout and collection so far and is fully supportive of all my hobbies.
The database has also allowed me to know which stock I have multiples of and, therefore which ones are potentially sale worthy...
Glyn
Good idea, herself could help put the inventory together
Quote from: Bonnyman750 on January 21, 2023, 02:38:51 PM
My wife and I have discussed this issue WRT my railway collection and based on that I have formulated a database of all items owned with catalogue numbers, price paid and description. She has been with me all the way and fully understands what each item is potentially worth should I expire before her and won't be scammed by dealers. She is also fully aware of the total cost of the layout and collection so far and is fully supportive of all my hobbies.
The database has also allowed me to know which stock I have multiples of and, therefore which ones are potentially sale worthy...
Glyn
I have a spreadsheet too - my good lady spends half her working life up to her neck in Excel - and its purpose is not only to enable me to keep track of what I have but also what I would like. That's handy for birthdays and Christmas...
I ought to add the values at some point.
I started off with an Excel spreadsheet at first but created an Access database in the end, with a small scanned image and the item details. I also use it to create a label for the box with the inventory number and image, which makes it easier to see what's in the loco storage cases when the boxes are packed on their sides, or I can place the labels for rolling stock in the bottom of the tray so I know what lives where when packing up after a show :)
Been into our local 'Model Railway emporium' yesterday and there's 'bugger all' on the N gauge used display. Mostly Kato track and unpopular paint? How is that specifically N gauge? Several modern outline locos both diesel and electric all DCC and some with sound.
I like to pick up obscure buildings and wagons which i can happily butcher into something useful or bits of scenery and materials 'left over' from a layout - nothing!
Chatted to the proprietor who reckons Covid lockdown has spurred on the model railway scene and those with restricted space have chosen N over 00, bringing more people into the N-et :hmmm: