While pottering around on the forum some time ago, I noticed a Dapol gunpowder van for sale. I thought that's an unusual wagon, wouldn't mind one on my layout!
The seller turned out to be ohlavache in France, who informed me that he had two - I said I'd take them both.
They turned up at Chez Bealman earlier this week, and I'm very pleased with them. However, I have a number of questions for which I seek counsel from the forum.
Firstly, the models are actually different - one is marked, Dapol, GWR, No W105736, GUNPOWDER.
The other: DAPOL FOR MODELBAHN UNION no 4, GUNPOWDER VAN GWR, MU3990010, LIMITED EDITION 084/100.
So, the first one is a Fair Diinkum Dapol wagon, but I don't understand the Modelbahn Union thing on the other. It also appears to be a limited edition - have I got a collector's item?
Interestingly, this van is marked "Improvised Gunpowder Van" I assume there was a prototype, and if so, what exactly does it mean?
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/119/255-180222062826-1196801714.jpeg)
Which brings me to more questions about the prototype.... the boxes tell me this was a GWR wagon. Did these vans see operation in BR days? My layout is transition era.
Next, what was the operational protocol? Obviously they would need barrier wagons -- how many?
Would this be a train to itself? I doubt it would turn up in a mixed goods!
Would these two wagons I've got run in tandem, or would there only be one per train?
Ok, lots of questions, but I like to run things prototypically if possible.
Anyway, they're lovely wagons - thanks again, @ohlavache (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2397)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/119/255-180222062938-1196952297.jpeg)
George. Barrier wagons are a must either side of the two coupled together. Remember tyne yard ? A little hint here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/43516-movement-of-gun-powder-vans/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/43516-movement-of-gun-powder-vans/) hope helps
Thanks for that link, Chris. Some interesting stuff there!
Looks like a genuine dapol. George the mystery of the modelbahn union is this is dapol' s european distributor I believe the salvage van.. I have found https://www.dapol.co.uk/special-commissions/n-gauge-specials/modelbahn-union/10513-gunpowder-van-salvage (https://www.dapol.co.uk/special-commissions/n-gauge-specials/modelbahn-union/10513-gunpowder-van-salvage) - please don't open the link it's in German language
I only know a tiny little bit about GPVs George :dunce:
I dont know if British Railways used them as intended for the transportation of gunpowder.
We have a rake of Blue Circle cement versions, operating the end of steam in SR meant we had a few for their running to Exeter Central. Again lifespan knowledge is poor but @Bob G (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1517) seems to think they ran with them until replacement with cemflos of which earliest photos seem to suggest 1964.
They believed a cast iron van, intending to be blast proof would be perfect for transporting paper bags of cement across the railway network. What they didnt consider was the condensation issue, which was presumably the biggest driving force behind development of a new wagon.
I think the gunpowder was travelled in wooden barrels and therefore moisture wasnt so much of an issue when on their original workings
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/119/5099-190222055246.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=119757)
Right is box fresh, left I've added a puckered felt roof and tried to replicate signs of their hard life. Decent little wagons even though their past is quite hard to find out about
Thanks, Craig - very interesting! :beers:
I'm sure they ran in br days confirmed by looking at https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brgunpowder definitely great if thinking of quarry traffic / MOD traffic.
Another good link. Thanks, Chris. :thumbsup:
Your welcome George. Models look fab. I'm pretty sure if you run them with box vans and open wagons at the rear if the train with barrier wagons either side with brake van, don't forget please not next to the loco obvious reasons one should be happy.
Presumably "improvised" means converted from a GWR iron mink, which is available as an NGS kit.
Ah, thank you! :thumbsup:
Was that really on the prototype vans?
Yes, there was an article about these vans by Stuart Brasier in the 04/96 issue of the NGS Journal with a photo.
BR built gunpowder vans to basically the GWR design, but the last forty had 10' wb chassis as opposed to the 9' of earlier wagons.
The BR livery was not as showy as your models, being in standard colours (bauxite) and the word 'gunpowder' above the wagon number.
Martyn
Joe:
Unfortunately, I don't have that issue, but thanks for the heads-up!
I have a reference point now. :beers:
Martyn,
Thanks for that! I've got a lot of bauxite vans, but I'm reluctant to spoil these little critters! :thumbsup:
I have two of the Modelbahn Union vans and they are, as you say George @Bealman (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=255) , a limited edition of 100. (Might be slightly breaking the rules here, but they are for sale if anybody is interested ;)).
Dapol wagon is based on the GWR iron mink not a gunpowder van. Gunpowder was used alot at one time a moved around alot in secure vans, and marked up as it need handling carefully. Improvised wording is so that everyone knows not to rough handle that van as a gunpowder vans were built stronger and more secure. They are pictures of these improvised vans floating around on the internet, can't remember the cut off for them and when gunpowder stopped being moved around in bulk.
If you can get hold of the Rail Express Modeller Train Formations Handbook there's a whole chapter on commercial explosives trains focussing on the BR period from the 1970s onwards. I relaise that this is outside of your period but it does give ansight into the handling of commercial explosives on Britiain's railways.. There were 6 locations that explosives were dispatched from at the start of this period: Annan, Ardeer, Gathurst, Penrhyndeudraeth, Snodgrass and Alfreton (the first 5 were factories run by Nobel and the last was run by Explosives and Chemical Products. Consists were typically in single van loads to various locations around the UK, mainly to mines and quarries. The wagons loaded with the explosives would have at least one barrier wagons either side of it usually in the R series of TOPS Code, but other wagons could be used. The rest of the train could be wagons loaded with other goods. The only loads that couldn't be include the obvious: atomic waste, petroleum products and toxic gases.
There's also this website: http://igg.org.uk/rail/7-fops/fo-expchem.htm. (http://igg.org.uk/rail/7-fops/fo-expchem.htm.) It gives a brief outline on the handling of explosives.
The handbook Neil suggests can be purchased from https://www.classicmagazines.co.uk/product/5542/bookazine-rail-express-train-formations-handbook (https://www.classicmagazines.co.uk/product/5542/bookazine-rail-express-train-formations-handbook)
Quote from: crewearpley40 on February 19, 2022, 12:54:32 PM
The handbook Neil suggests can be purchased from https://www.classicmagazines.co.uk/product/5542/bookazine-rail-express-train-formations-handbook (https://www.classicmagazines.co.uk/product/5542/bookazine-rail-express-train-formations-handbook)
That book looks really useful. Copy on order!
Is there a similar one for earlier eras...? (Search of that website didn't bring anything up)
Sorry Dalteth not that I know of. i did notice this https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/43516-movement-of-gun-powder-vans/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/43516-movement-of-gun-powder-vans/)