'I spent £20,000 on model trains – and they will fund my retirement' is the headline to a piece in The Telegraph
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/sipps/spent-20000-model-trains-will-fund-retirement/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/sipps/spent-20000-model-trains-will-fund-retirement/)
I'm afraid this chap is on fantasy island. The commenters below the line there are more realistic.
I can't read the full article but, for a decent pension pot to suppliment a state pension, he's missing a zero.
What a poor deluded boy he is
Quote from: Buffin on January 08, 2022, 08:21:23 AM
'I spent £20,000 on model trains – and they will fund my retirement' is the headline to a piece in The Telegraph
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/sipps/spent-20000-model-trains-will-fund-retirement/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/sipps/spent-20000-model-trains-will-fund-retirement/)
I'm afraid this chap is on fantasy island. The commenters below the line there are more realistic.
Can't read the article - it's behind a paywall. :thumbsdown:
Quote from: GrahamB on January 08, 2022, 08:44:18 AM
I can't read the full article but, for a decent pension pot to suppliment a state pension, he's missing a zero.
The thing is, you need the storage space in OO. I have £5k of OO stuff VERY focussed on a 1970s SR EMU era, and it is in about eight storage boxes under the stairs. OO needs 8 times the volume to store it than N.
I joke about my N collection being a pension pot, as it is going up in value, but as soon as I sell something, I buy a replacement!
Bob
After seeing the prices for some pre-owned Lyddle End houses and buildings on Rails e-bay site, Im thinking thinking of releasing some equity release in the model property i have to fund my retirement. :)
Must be one of the best investment you could make, far better than the current savings rates offered at the bank, Trouble is a what point do you capitalise on your investment? :hmmm:
Quote from: Buffin on January 08, 2022, 08:21:23 AM
'I spent £20,000 on model trains – and they will fund my retirement' is the headline to a piece in The Telegraph
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/sipps/spent-20000-model-trains-will-fund-retirement/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/sipps/spent-20000-model-trains-will-fund-retirement/)
I think the correct headline is:
I spent £20,000 on model trains – and they will fund my retirement (that's what I told my wife anyway)
One of my colleagues bought a brand new 5" live steam Britannia when he retired, with the claim it would be an investment.
Martyn
To be fair I'd say model railways are a good short-medium term investment. 5-10 years the return is likely very good, probably not far off 100% ROI on most stuff, and more on select items. However I'd not rely on them as a pension fund, look at the value of Poole Farish stuff (for example). It's a volatile market, and it just takes a re-run, or worse a re-tool and the market can collapse.
Oops! I'm in real trouble! :doh: :(
SWMBO just picked up my iPad while I took a comfort break from reading this after it went 'ping' three times. Just emails coming in of no import, but she saw this thread title and read on.
Apparently my former reasons for buying more stock are no longer to be considered worthy of anything more than contempt, and she has withdrawn all pocket money for the foreseeable future. :'(
;)
There is a bootleg version of the article here: https://blogh1.com/2022/01/08/i-spent-20000-on-model-trains-and-they-will-fund-my-retirement/
and is more down-to-earth than the headline leads to expect.
Quote from: railsquid on January 09, 2022, 12:42:58 AM
There is a bootleg version of the article here: https://blogh1.com/2022/01/08/i-spent-20000-on-model-trains-and-they-will-fund-my-retirement/
and is more down-to-earth than the headline leads to expect.
However I suspect this:
QuoteIn some cases the true value of railway sets gathering dust in garages and attics across the country will be far higher than many people realise, Mr Holder added
will lead to a flood of optimistically priced loft junk...
Not if it's not in the original box :D
will lead to a flood of optimistically priced loft junk...
That's exactly what I thought. The flood has already begun judging by some of the eBay and Facebook prices.
I do wonder how the market will react when the pandemic is over and people go back to their offices, will there be another flood of second hand model railway bits?
I'm actually hoping there will be as I can't afford to buy new any more.
:NGaugersRule:
Pete Waterman's collection may be able to fund his retirement ?
Quote from: silly moo on January 09, 2022, 10:03:33 AM
will lead to a flood of optimistically priced loft junk...
That's exactly what I thought. The flood has already begun judging by some of the eBay and Facebook prices.
I do wonder how the market will react when the pandemic is over and people go back to their offices, will there be another flood of second hand model railway bits?
I'm actually hoping there will be as I can't afford to buy new any more.
:NGaugersRule:
It's likely larger scale models (OO, HO and O) will be offloaded quicker due to them taking up more storage space
You have to factor in peoples' life stages, demographics and age profiles of modellers, I can't see model railways as a means to fund one's retirement.
This hobby is meant to be enjoyed!
:NGaugersRule:
I think a good sizeable collection consisting of rare, limited editions etc could when sold be a reasonable 'top up' adding to a state or private pension, bearing in mind under the current tax laws if you sell more than 12,000 in a year of your collection you will then be liable for Capital gains tax.
Over the years I have acquired some rare pieces in my collection but no way would it provide me a retirement income. However it has to said that the models I purchased from new their value has pretty much more than doubled over a ten year period.
If your models have doubled in value over a decade then you have made a respectable return of 7% pa, which was probably not much affected by fluctuations in more conventional assets.
I've seen many worse investment propositions than that.
I view this thread with interest, but also some amusement.
I find it difficult to believe there is a "collectors market for N gauge model locomotives".
And if there was, they'd have to be boxed and in reasonably good condition.
I dunno about other modellers, but I buy stuff to run it ;) :thumbsup:
Quote from: longbow on January 10, 2022, 05:58:02 AM
If your models have doubled in value over a decade then you have made a respectable return of 7% pa, which was probably not much affected by fluctuations in more conventional assets.
I've seen many worse investment propositions than that.
That was some of the new models that have doubled, there are others that have more than trebled e.g I bought a few of these for £22.00 each!
(https://i.imgur.com/TJo4MCZ.jpg)
Maybe bank your profits before the Revolution Pullmans hit the market.
Quote from: longbow on January 10, 2022, 08:55:55 AM
Maybe bank your profits before the Revolution Pullmans hit the market.
Good point although these are Ltd editions with certificate. I'll probably list them when ebay have their next final insert fee offer.
Quote from: Bealman on January 10, 2022, 07:41:23 AM
I find it difficult to believe there is a "collectors market for N gauge model locomotives".
Oh yes, definitely is. Probably more for the limited production "fine art" and hand-built artisan models which can cost £1000s, rather than the run-of-the-mill stuff. I would imagine some folk would put CJM and similar in the "collectable" category just for their rarity and the skill involved in producing them. I treasure my CJMs. I also have a passing interest in collecting mint examples of early N models, just for my "history of N" display shelf :)
CJM are always an interesting one though, as they don't hold their value. New prices were £500+, whilst second hand they always seem to be more like £300-400, and less now they're virtually all duplicated by RTR models.
I find wagons/coaches are the best 'investment'. They can have a very short term, and high, ROI. I must confess I adopt a very laissez faire attitude to buying for that reason. It's very rare that you can't recoup the cost of an item in pretty short order. I bought 10 NSE mk2s for £23 each for Kernow in September 2019. They're going for £50+ each now.
You're all thinking too small - the real money is in packages of financial instruments leveraging trends in the N scale market. I myself have some positions based around a short-selling strategy on Poole Farish Pullman coach futures.
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
However, on the serious OP, I don't buy models as an investment.... I buy em because I'm a railway modeller!
Bit hard to be one if you don't have model engines and rolling stock!
Nothing stopping you building a diorama where no trains happen to be running :thumbsup:
Anyway the real smart money is in Non-Fungible Tokens (https://www.theverge.com/22310188/nft-explainer-what-is-blockchain-crypto-art-faq), which (as far as I can tell) is sort of 17th century Dutch tulip bulb mania but with blockchain, but anyway there's a cool-ish cartoon image of the inside of a Tokyo train which I own as a model about halfway down the linked page, so it's kind of relevant. I think. :confused2:
Not sure "smart-money" and "NFTs" belong on the same planet, let alone same sentence!
Quote from: Bealman on January 11, 2022, 12:40:12 AM
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
However, on the serious OP, I don't buy models as an investment.... I buy em because I'm a railway modeller!
Bit hard to be one if you don't have model engines and rolling stock!
Certain models have become very rare George, for me to place one into in my collection they have to be mint and that includes the box etc. However I didn't create a collection to build a pension pot, I invested my money wisely into the Royal London! ;)
I do on the odd occasion when I find time, run my Southern stock on a two metre end to end combining of a three rail into two with turnouts. I plan to hopefully one day build a Network Rail TMD full of the yellow stuff! But where my time is busily involved in other parts of the hobby that's not going to happen just yet! :(
On top of all that then there's my two year old grandson who's created a big liking for Thomas on youtube, so no doubt I'll be building a OO layout for him and my son to play with in a year or so's time, before I get to build anything for myself.
I have a lot of second hand 00 stuff to be converted into EM and upgraded. If I were to sell it tomorrow id get double what I paid for it just 5 years ago. Second hand prices have followed new prices up and up.
That's selling pieces individually properly described on eBay..
Also there's the odd item I've bought for less than a fiver, ( mint boxed) that I've seen go on eBay for £75 or more.
Buying cheaply and being selective could make money. Buying new regular RTR not much hope of a profit unless they short run it and never make any more.
Everything in N is short runs and frequently not produced again (at least for Farish).
Look at Farish wagons which were all £15-20 new:
Seacows: got up to £80+ second hand
JJA Autoballasters: £75+
JPA cement tankers: £60+
Mk2 coaches: £70+
Etc etc.
Quote from: The Q on January 11, 2022, 06:50:49 PM
Buying new regular RTR not much hope of a profit unless they short run it and never make any more.
With the cost of tooling these days the only short or limited runs would be different liveries. Dapol have been very efficient in past years in doing this but unfortunately no matter what the running number etc, the market eventually ends up getting saturated with that model.
I think the Class 22 is probably a good example to use!
Quote from: njee20 on January 11, 2022, 07:11:45 PM
Everything in N is short runs and frequently not produced again (at least for Farish).
Look at Farish wagons which were all £15-20 new:
Seacows: got up to £80+ second hand
JJA Autoballasters: £75+
JPA cement tankers: £60+
Mk2 coaches: £70+
Etc etc.
if I were to buy new on a short run Item , hoping for an investment, you could guarantee that would be the item they'd re run production on.....
Cannot read the article but suppose this is all assuming he doesn't get offered buttons for the rolling stock when he does need to sell them....
Your pension 'fund' needs to be secure and retain value for a, hopefully, long time.
While Second hand values have recently gone through the roof I suspect the affect of covid restrictions have had their part to play. Monetary values of 30 year old mass produced rolling stock may well disappoint if younger, better items have been produced in the meantime. An example would be the move to DCC and the difficulty of converting older locos from DC.
At best he's taking a huge risk. I hope it pays off for him, but I doubt it.