Hi
Has anyone taken Microsoft's free option to upgrade to Windows 11 yet?
Is it too soon.
I'm still fuming that Microsoft didn't think I qualified to have a free version of Teams, then I got it installed, and then Microsoft stopped me from joining the Teams meeting I had set up!
So I'm a bit anti Microsoft at the moment. They seem to be far too controlling for my liking.
Bob
was offered, and took, the free upgrade from xp to 10, but not had any offer of a free upgrade to 11 yet.
The upgrade is free to anyone and available now. However, there are some requirements - it quotes a number of "required" processors, but that is only a list of what they have tested it on and most 64-bit processors will work. It also quotes a need for UEFI, Secure Boot capability and having a TPM (Trusted Platform Module).
Most motherboards, for a long time, have been UEFI capable and just need to be set that way in the BIOS. Many have built in TPM on either the motherboard or within the processor, but many only have a header to plug a TPM module into. Those modules are currently very scarce and have shot up to ridiculous prices.
BUT - the TPM requirement (and I think the UEFI one) can be got around. Windows 11 does not need them to work and it is only the installer insisting on them. A search soon brings up the methods to get around that ... replacing a file telling the Windows 11 installer what to do, with one from a Windows 10 installation disk/USB or using the Windows 10 installer to install Windows 11. In both cases, it removes the check for TPM (and UEFI?) and TPM is only needed if you want to use Bitlocker anyway.
I have installed it that way on a virtual machine on my home server, but have not yet tried it on my desktop or laptop. Indeed I haven't even upgraded the kid's PCs yet - and both of those are fully Windows 11 compatible.
I have Win10 on my laptop. I have never let it have a systems upgrade. I delete the upgrades and delay updates. It's perfectly stable. I am unable to prevent security updates, and quite frankly, knowing how slack MS security is that's probably just as well.
If they think I'm risking that by trying Win11 then they can shove it. It's been great having an efficient laptop that doesn't lock up, crash, go black screen, go white screen, go slow, because of their inefficient bloatware and poor programming.
I've Win10, and that's how it'll stay. I do however invest in high quality virus and intrusion detection.
MS is purely progress for profits sake. I've seen nothing added to Windows in the last 6 - 8 years that's added anything of note, so unless Win11 is going to accurately predict lottery numbers I ain't interested.
Others experiences may differ.
Microsoft have posted a Registry hack that will allow Win 11 Setup to run on non-qualifying hardware that is already running Win 10. Though the resulting Win 11 installation is not supported by Microsoft.
Quote from: RailGooner on October 24, 2021, 05:48:00 PM
Microsoft have posted a Registry hack that will allow Win 11 Setup to run on non-qualifying hardware that is already running Win 10. Though the resulting Win 11 installation is not supported by Microsoft.
Think the minimum you can get away with is TPM 1.2 chip and secure boot (and any CPU). Below that and it refuses to install, even as a clean install. I've not tried fiddling with the installer using DISM or whatever to see if it will go even lower than that - not really worth the effort! The official supported minimum is TPM 2, secure boot and a supported CPU (intel gen 8 upwards, plus a few gen 7 ones).
I've been testing it on a laptop at work (less than a year old, so officially supported) - not massively impressed. The user interface changes are all, in my opinion, retrograde steps. Seems to work mostly OK on standalone computers although I've identified a few issues when running it on a network. I have no plans to put it on any of our work computers (other than the test one) for the time being, and have blocked it from installing.
For home users, it'll probably be OK if the hardware is supported but it's not really an improvement over Windows 10, and there are probably still various issues to iron out (I can't really tell without trialling it on a range of hardware, which I have neither the time nor inclination to do at the moment). I'd advise holding off for now, even if you have a computer which officially supports it.
Running it on non-supported hardware is probably risky as Windows 11 could get broken with an update in future. In the past this has been much less of a concern as previous versions would generally run fine on much hardware older than that officially supported (I've had Windows 10 running on non-supported computers for years), but Microsoft seems to be taking a more inflexible stance now so it's oporobably not advisable.
My laptop is now 12 years old and running in Vista - yes, Vista - and I'm quite happy with it :worried:
My laptop has a Core i7 processor and is apparently unsupported (specifically the processor is not compatible), which surprised me! Makes sense if it's just untested, but that in itself surprises me. I'm in no rush to upgrade.
Quote from: Bealman on October 24, 2021, 10:40:43 PM
My laptop is now 12 years old and running in Vista - yes, Vista - and I'm quite happy with it :worried:
I'm still running win 7 on 2 PCs and a laptop, it does all I need; it ain't broke, why fix it?
As an IT professional, I feel that I need to point out to those of you running Vista and 7 that in security terms they very much are broken - they are out of support and haven't received any security patches for ages. Using them to access the Internet is risky, especially so for anything involving money.
If you wish to take this risk that's obviously your decision, but it is important to understand that the risk very much exists.
Quote from: njee20 on October 24, 2021, 10:44:50 PM
My laptop has a Core i7 processor and is apparently unsupported (specifically the processor is not compatible), which surprised me! Makes sense if it's just untested, but that in itself surprises me. I'm in no rush to upgrade.
It depends which generation of i7 it is. Generally, any computer older than about two and a half years probably won't meet the official minimum specifications.
My Windows 10 works fine. Why would I want Windows 11?
(This isn't a rhetorical question. But the MS publicity seems to descend quickly into bells & whistles, rather than a killer reason they can give in two non-technical sentences.)
Quote from: davidinyork on October 24, 2021, 11:45:18 PM
As an IT professional, I feel that I need to point out to those of you running Vista and 7 that in security terms they very much are broken - they are out of support and haven't received any security patches for ages. Using them to access the Internet is risky, especially so for anything involving money.
If you wish to take this risk that's obviously your decision, but it is important to understand that the risk very much exists.
If MS security is so good then what is the need for / purpose of software like AVG, Avast or McAfee etc?
Quote from: Dorsetmike on October 25, 2021, 11:49:39 AM
Quote from: davidinyork on October 24, 2021, 11:45:18 PM
As an IT professional, I feel that I need to point out to those of you running Vista and 7 that in security terms they very much are broken - they are out of support and haven't received any security patches for ages. Using them to access the Internet is risky, especially so for anything involving money.
If you wish to take this risk that's obviously your decision, but it is important to understand that the risk very much exists.
If MS security is so good then what is the need for / purpose of software like AVG, Avast or McAfee etc?
Because MS are more interested in pushing out new software to maximise profit than to make what's already out there secure.
There's no profit in supporting 4yr old software.
Is there any visual difference between windows 10 and windows 11, i.e. does it look the same on the computer screen ?
Quote from: emjaybee on October 25, 2021, 12:17:00 PM
Because MS are more interested in pushing out new software to maximise profit
But that is what every business is in business for. I run Malwarebytes, but do not use any of the paid for security programmes. I feel that it is a question of these companies saying that their programme is better than others, so buy ours. What I would like to see is a comparison of the likes of AVG, McAfee and the other similar programmes, showing what they
do do, that other companies don't do.
But I am taking the thread a bit off topic - sorry.
just checked an apparently my CPU is not supported.
I often wish I'd never updated from XP, it worked, did what I wanted, and didn't keep wanting me to add things.
mind you, I LOVED my black screen with green letters many years ago.
perhaps I'm just a Dinosaur
Quote from: Buffin on October 25, 2021, 07:48:06 AM
My Windows 10 works fine. Why would I want Windows 11?
(This isn't a rhetorical question. But the MS publicity seems to descend quickly into bells & whistles, rather than a killer reason they can give in two non-technical sentences.)
If your Windows 10 works fine and provides everything you want/need from an operating system, you wouldn't want Windows 11 (yet!).
Quote from: Dorsetmike on October 25, 2021, 11:49:39 AM
If MS security is so good then what is the need for / purpose of software like AVG, Avast or McAfee etc?
Defender (Microsoft's security product) is good - especially the enterprise version - and is good enough for the vast majority of home users. The purpose of AVG, Avast, etc. is to generate income for their owners and they may offer features that Defender doesn't. Their ads will try to scare and bamboozle you in to buying their product. If you don't click on links without thinking and you don't download porn, pirated software/movies/music, etc. you'll be fine sticking with Defender.
Quote from: dannyboy on October 25, 2021, 12:46:18 PM
Quote from: emjaybee on October 25, 2021, 12:17:00 PM
Because MS are more interested in pushing out new software to maximise profit
But that is what every business is in business for. I run Malwarebytes, but do not use any of the paid for security programmes. I feel that it is a question of these companies saying that their programme is better than others, so buy ours. What I would like to see is a comparison of the likes of AVG, McAfee and the other similar programmes, showing what they do do, that other companies don't do.
But I am taking the thread a bit off topic - sorry.
Yes, but the constant push to upgrade software, and as demonstrated in this thread, the constant, "oo, I'm afraid your system isn't compatible, you'll have to upgrade your pc", means a constant pile of redundant, yet still perfectly functioning pc's getting scrapped and yet more global resources being wasted to line the pockets of MS and the pc manufacturers.
I'd love to be one of the 'tech' billionaire's preaching to the world about how to save the planet AFTER they've lined their pockets with wasteful and dubious business practices. It's a doddle to be 'green' when money's no object.
Quite frankly, the likes of Bezo's and Gates should be taxed back into the stone age, pair of parasitical two-faced scum.
The problem for Microsoft, begins as a problem for Intel, AMD, Foxcon, et al. Chip and component manufacturers want to sell product, so they are continually developing their product to make them smaller/faster/more powerful/more secure/more efficient/cheaper/etc.
Now Dell and HP and Lenovo, assemble this years new components in to snazzy new lines of computers. New computers which are lighter/faster/more powerful/etc. But last years Windows can't leverage those new components - this years computer running last year's Windows leaves you feeling unimpressed to say the least!
So, Microsoft release a new version of Windows that has had all the security holes discovered over the life of last year's Windows plugged up and is capable of running all those jazzy new components. You're happy becuse you've got a new shiny computer that boots up 0.27 seconds faster and weighs 0.27 grams less, than last years model.
This isn't just Microsoft and Windows computers. Apple are IMHO worse with the iphone. Car manufacturers don't get ripped in to with the same enthusiasm as Microsoft do! My favourite loaf of bread from last year isn't my fav now because they've messed around with it. And the slippers gifted me last Christmas - the most comfortable I've had in years - need replacing, but I can't find them anymore!
No, this (1st world) "problem" isn't even unique to computers, let alone Microsoft.
Some very valid points Mark. :thumbsup:
Quote from: RailGooner on October 25, 2021, 02:47:26 PM
The problem for Microsoft, begins as a problem for Intel, AMD, Foxcon, et al. Chip and component manufacturers want to sell product, so they are continually developing their product to make them smaller/faster/more powerful/more secure/more efficient/cheaper/etc.
Now Dell and HP and Lenovo, assemble this years new components in to snazzy new lines of computers. New computers which are lighter/faster/more powerful/etc. But last years Windows can't leverage those new components - this years computer running last year's Windows leaves you feeling unimpressed to say the least!
So, Microsoft release a new version of Windows that has had all the security holes discovered over the life of last year's Windows plugged up and is capable of running all those jazzy new components. You're happy becuse you've got a new shiny computer that boots up 0.27 seconds faster and weighs 0.27 grams less, than last years model.
This isn't just Microsoft and Windows computers. Apple are IMHO worse with the iphone. Car manufacturers don't get ripped in to with the same enthusiasm as Microsoft do! My favourite loaf of bread from last year isn't my fav now because they've messed around with it. And the slippers gifted me last Christmas - the most comfortable I've had in years - need replacing, but I can't find them anymore!
No, this (1st world) "problem" isn't even unique to computers, let alone Microsoft.
You can repair and maintain a 15 Yr old car. Trying doing that with a 15yr old computer.
There is upcoming regulation to force 'white goods' manufacturers to support products for 10yrs (I think) beyond sale, this thinking needs applying to tech as well. That's where there is huge swathes of waste.
My computer does nothing now that it didn't do 10+ yrs ago.
Quote from: emjaybee on October 25, 2021, 03:04:40 PM
..
My computer does nothing now that it didn't do 10+ yrs ago.
Sorry, but if it's the same hardware running the same software then it is certainly putting your data at greater risk than it was doing a decade ago! And as soon as all those white goods are connected to the internet, their
secure lifespan will plummet.
Quote from: RailGooner on October 25, 2021, 03:12:54 PM
Quote from: emjaybee on October 25, 2021, 03:04:40 PM
..
My computer does nothing now that it didn't do 10+ yrs ago.
Sorry, but if it's the same hardware running the same software then it is certainly putting your data at greater risk than it was doing a decade ago! And as soon as all those white goods are connected to the internet, their secure lifespan will plummet.
My point is, getting the existing tech 'secure' is surely much better for the planet than constantly throwing away 3/4/5 Yr old kit in the name of 'so-called' progress. I refuse to believe you can't secure a 10yr PC from cyber threats. But it's not as profitable as replacing it constantly.
That 15year old car will soon start costing you money if you want to drive into any major city like London for instance. They have announced new measures to penalise old cars with bad emissions to force you to upgrade your car. That's what it's all about nowadays save you money so they can make money, watch for the next scam coming along replacing gas boilers!
would that be the
'we'll give you £5.000 towards replacing your perfectly serviceable boiler with a £16,000 heat pump'
scam ?
of course, when everyone uses them, I'd assume that there will be less heat available per heat pump, so they won't work so well.
let's see first if the govt will insist on heat pumps in all new build houses rather than boilers, and of course, all housing associations replacing all their boilers with heat pumps.....
ooohhhhhhhhhhhhh
look at that squadron of flying pigs performing perfect aerobatics >:D
Quote from: RailGooner on October 25, 2021, 02:12:12 PM
Defender (Microsoft's security product) is good - especially the enterprise version - and is good enough for the vast majority of home users. The purpose of AVG, Avast, etc. is to generate income for their owners and they may offer features that Defender doesn't. Their ads will try to scare and bamboozle you in to buying their product. If you don't click on links without thinking and you don't download porn, pirated software/movies/music, etc. you'll be fine sticking with Defender.
Indeed - and none of the other products will remove the risk from running out of support versions of Windows (that's everything before Windows 8 ). Many seem to think that Windows 7 is perfectly safe if they have up to date antivirus installed on it. Nope!
As regards lifespan of computers, Windows up until now has generally been fairly good here - I've got nine and ten year old computers running Windows 10. They aren't the fastest by any means, but they work and are adequate for basic tasks, and the upgrade from Windows 7 was free. Windows 11 is a departure here as the high system requirements are going to render computers obsolete which still have plenty of life in them - it makes a mockery of Microsoft's claims to be 'green'.
Current heat pumps are pretty rubbish, and they're not improving particularly fast. I know a number of people who have had them forced on them by buying houses already fitted with them, new properties fitted with them, and one person who retrofitted one after believing the hype.
All regret them. One has removed it and gone oil, two gone electric heating and one has bought a truck load of oil filled radiators so his family doesn't freeze over the winter.
The British climate is too temperate for them to work properly.
If you can, the best solution is ground source heat pumps. They work far better as the subterranean ground temperature is more stable.
Quote from: emjaybee on October 25, 2021, 03:35:15 PM
Quote from: RailGooner on October 25, 2021, 03:12:54 PM
Quote from: emjaybee on October 25, 2021, 03:04:40 PM
..
My computer does nothing now that it didn't do 10+ yrs ago.
Sorry, but if it's the same hardware running the same software then it is certainly putting your data at greater risk than it was doing a decade ago! And as soon as all those white goods are connected to the internet, their secure lifespan will plummet.
My point is, getting the existing tech 'secure' is surely much better for the planet than constantly throwing away 3/4/5 Yr old kit in the name of 'so-called' progress. I refuse to believe you can't secure a 10yr PC from cyber threats. But it's not as profitable as replacing it constantly.
It's quite possible to keep a 10 year old PC running well, securely and free of charge but it requires some effort on the users part i.e. you need to install and learn how to use Linux and possibly make some changes to the software you use. Although there's nothing stopping you running Windows and any required software as a virtual PC on Linux (I do this so I can use Affinity) and keep that VM disconnected from the Internet to keep it safe.
Linux Mint is excellent, the average Windows user will have no problems learning how to use it.
Seeing as we are having a moan about big-tech, I'll add my latest gripe about IoS15 which I downloaded to my iPad. The Safari browser has always worked smoothly for me up to IoS14, and I have a well-organised library of Bookmarks which allowed me to navigate smoothly, and open my bookmarks at the point where last used. That functionality continues in IoS15 but only using the screen in portrait mode. In landscape mode the user has to select a sidebar which occupies one third of the screen, select bookmarks, in my case select a folder and a sub-folder and choose the bookmark. After selecting the bookmark, the sidebar remains open and the only way out is by back-tracking through the folder, then the bookmark label, then The Safari label. So for me 7 taps in landscape mode where previously 2 or 3 taps would have been the maximum. Apparently, the issue was flagged up at beta testing but Apple preferred to keep with their original idea which seems to be predicated on the assumption that iPhone users prefer the portrait format. Where do I lodge my claim for RSI, either from all the tapping, or spinning the screen between landscape and portrait and back again to use the convenience of the portrait bookmark behaviour.
Raised the issue with Apple, so do not expect much to change. :(
Edit: Miraculously fixed in today's update. :claphappy:
Quote from: NScaleNotes on October 25, 2021, 05:48:28 PM
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It's quite possible to keep a 10 year old PC running well, securely and free of charge but it requires some effort on the users part i.e. you need to install and learn how to use Linux and possibly make some changes to the software you use. Although there's nothing stopping you running Windows and any required software as a virtual PC on Linux (I do this so I can use Affinity) and keep that VM disconnected from the Internet to keep it safe.
Linux Mint is excellent, the average Windows user will have no problems learning how to use it.
Let's compare apples with apples. If the Linux distro is ten years old and unpatched... !
Quote from: RailGooner on October 25, 2021, 08:10:32 PM
Quote from: NScaleNotes on October 25, 2021, 05:48:28 PM
..
It's quite possible to keep a 10 year old PC running well, securely and free of charge but it requires some effort on the users part i.e. you need to install and learn how to use Linux and possibly make some changes to the software you use. Although there's nothing stopping you running Windows and any required software as a virtual PC on Linux (I do this so I can use Affinity) and keep that VM disconnected from the Internet to keep it safe.
Linux Mint is excellent, the average Windows user will have no problems learning how to use it.
Let's compare apples with apples. If the Linux distro is ten years old and unpatched... !
I think you might misunderstand, I'm not advocating running a 10 year old unpatched Linux distro because you don't need to. What I'm pointing out is Linux usually has much lower hardware requirements so you can run a cutting-edge OS release and up to date software on older equipment. Of course there are limits to this, I've noticed a more and more open-source software is no longer supporting 32-bit hardware.
But if you really want to compare apples to apples, I reckon 10 year old unpatched Linux would still be safer than 10 year old unpatched Windows. That's partly technical, it's not quite the same as it is with Windows where Microsoft builds everything, in Linux you tend to have an OS built using components from multiple independent developers which can all be updated independently as and when it is required. So you're unlikely to have a completely unpatched system, certain parts of the whole might depreciate and be unpatched but other parts wouldn't. It's also partly to do with less attackers focusing on Linux machines and partly to do with it being open-source i.e. the developers don't hide their code so the community finds problems quicker than closed source equivalents. Yes, exploits are still discovered/developed and rootkits could theoretically be a problem but I don't get anywhere near the problems I used to get when running Windows.