hi everyone
not mentioned here yet i don't think.
dapol are making yeoman o and k jha hoppers
in n.
i picked up the leaflet yesterday.
they come in original yeoman (more silver less blue) and revised yeoman (a bigger blue stripe) and inner and outer wagons.
looking foreard to these.
assembling a full rake is very expensive these days, no matter what wagon you opt for.... I'll probably just get enough for a split portion of a train... (so about 12).
anyway they look very attractive wagons from what ive seen of the oo versions.
what locos other than 59s would have regularly (or fairly regularly) hauled them on introduction to mid 90s?
cheers
tim
Hi Tim
I had not seen or heard of that development either - and TBH I had guessed that the JHA might have been Revolution's proposed wagon (certainly more in keeping with their modern image moniker than all steel K type Pullmans - which I actually want!!!).
Big shame is these JHAs were introduced 1989. I'm already stretching my era to get 59001 which was introduced in 1986, so I'm going to have to research what they would have been hauling when introduced in 1986. Quite probably the PTA bogie tipplers that I once had and sold on. Back to the NGS if I want a rake of these, I guess, as I think these ex TPM models are now owned by the NGS, IIRC.
EDIT: OK I have found 59s hauling the earlier aluminium design Procor PHA hoppers (which look similar to the O&K ones but were scrapped when the O&K ones replaced them), PTA bogie tipplers, and Farish PGAs (I already have a rake of these for my Westerns and 56s to haul). So I'm OK to sit back and wait to see what Dapol does produce (and hope for a more realistic PGA from someone else).
Bob
Dapol do these in OO, so were virtually a dead cert to do them in N. The ARC/Hanson Powell-Duffryn JHA is a more obvious choice for Revolution.
Haulage in the early days was consistently by 59, they were privately owned after all. That said I've seen 60s and pairs of 37s on them. As well as a pair of 9Fs (!) for Yeoman's anniversary celebration.
These days they get mixed in with various other hopper wagons including HOAs, so you don't need a full rake of 40 for prototypical reality!
Im looking forward to them, the real thing has got real presence!
hi bob and njee
i cant decide on whether to buy these or wait for accurascale to shrink their pta wagons... which is bound to happen with revolution making the 59s.
i'll wait and see what gets announced before i pre order anything...
cheers
tim
Quote from: bluedepot on September 12, 2021, 05:10:21 PM
hi bob and njee
i cant decide on whether to buy these or wait for accurascale to shrink their pta wagons... which is bound to happen with revolution making the 59s.
i'll wait and see what gets announced before i pre order anything...
cheers
tim
You do of course have to wait for these JHAs to enter Dapol's development "Funnel", so you could be waiting a long time :(
Bob
Yes given Accurascale and Revolution share research I certainly wouldn't bet against the PTAs, but i also doubt they'll be imminent. If nothing else Revolution are good at not cannibalising their market, and I'd argue the current EALNOS is probably the current focus for box wagons (albeit a different era).
I suspect you've got a couple of years to decide either way!
I have no need, but may still succumb!
Blatant plug - there's an article in current DEMU Update (issue 96) by me covering the operation of the the O&K hoppers. They regularly run mixed with other types of wagon (especially on the multi portion jumbos to and from Acton) and have had at least 37, 47, 56, 58, 59, 60, 66 and (for press trials) 70s as hauling locos, so a wide variety of traction.
Jo
Saw that, Jo. It's a good article, Even if they spelt your name wrong ;D
I see these have gone on pre-order, £34 each from the box shifters. A big jump up from the HIAs (the last modern wagon we saw from them?), but still firmly in line with Farish HKAs etc.
Cheers Nick, yeah I noticed that.
I may do some others covering other wagon types if I can find the time, especially if they coincide with RTR releases.
Jo
I've bought one of the 4mm Dapol JHAs, to measure up to produce decals for. A friend and I noticed that there is a discrepancy between the axlebox and the axle location. Once you spot it, it looks worse every time you see it.
I've put a post on the Dapol forum (tagging Andy and Joel) here: https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/main-forum/freight-stock/container-stock/jha-o-k-aggregate-hopper/project-managers-blog-au/7877-jha-o-k-improved-cad-views?p=9731#post9731 highlighting it in the hope that it could be corrected on the N model, as the CAD put out by them this far features the same error on the N model.
There's been no reply from Dapol (not even a like or a "thanks for noticing but it's too late") or whatever.
Looking at the design and comparing it to other N scale wagons, it's a compromise they didn't need to make! I hope they have taken it on board, but not going to hold my breath.
Any other views on the matter or is expecting axles to line up with axleboxes being fussy?
Jo
Mmm, there's a decent looking side on photo on the Hatton's site, which doesn't look too bad. Have you got a photo? That would be pretty disappointing; but then I guess they're fighting physics, with oversized flanges the alternative may have been an overwide gap between bogie and body, which would possibly yield an overscale ride height.
Likely to be worse in N though. I had the same problem with my JIAs, creating cutouts for the flanges in the floor doesn't leave much thickness.
I've done a few photos, all a bit clunky on the phone switching tabs to copy and past BB code!
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/114/9393-041021134357-114678834.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/114/9393-041021134356-114678763.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/114/9393-041021134422-1146812118.jpeg)
The axle pinpoint is roughly level with the bottom edge of the axlebox. The side on view of the bogie shows curve of the wheel turning in to return to the top below the axlebox, confirming the height of the pinpoint.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/114/9393-041021134425-114681982.jpeg)
The floor is flat, even allowing for the close coupler for the buckeye, there's plenty of material and the floor could've been 1mm higher. The flanges don't come close to hitting the sides of the wagon at maximum rotation, so that wouldn't be the cause. The Dapol Ferry Wagon and KIA / IHA steel carrier have a similar design of bogie and have the flanges allowed for by raising the floor behind the solebars of the wagon. The Farish BDA has curved arcs moulded in the floor to allow for the flanges.
The more I look at the N CAD, perhaps the axles line up with the axleboxes, but due to the angles of the CAD and perspective etc, it's difficult to tell. If they actually do align, it'd be nice for Dapol to have responded on their digest!
Jo
Mmm, that's not good, particularly the upside down view. Reminiscent of the solebar cutouts in the N gauge 59 CADs - regression in the name of compatibility, which just isn't needed!
I had a look at a friend's JHAs over the weekend and the problem is that once you've seen it I'm not sure you can un-see it! It doesn't look great as it looks odd (and as Jo says it seems to be unnecessary).
Are the bogies the same as on the ferry-vans?
If they are, it'll be interesting to see if Dapol do a copy and paste, or if they've re-drawn them (potentially with the error).
Steven B.
They're different bogies, but of a similar construction.
Jo
Quote from: Steven B on October 04, 2021, 04:53:57 PM
Are the bogies the same as on the ferry-vans?
If they are, it'll be interesting to see if Dapol do a copy and paste, or if they've re-drawn them (potentially with the error).
Steven B.
I think the wheel size (952/920) and wheelbase (2000/1800) are both greater on the 25 tonne axleload version.
Well gawd help me I have just ordered 10 of these.
That makes the pre-order book scary, really hope big chunks don't turn up at once :-\
Should be worth it though, as this now means I will have each 59 version with a suitable train for it, so at least my OCD will be happy even if my wallet isn't.
Skyline2uk
what year did yeoman change the livery over on these wagons? appreciate probably didnt do all of them at once just rough year is fine!
cheers
tim
It was quite a brief period in 1998 that the transition happened @bluedepot (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=114) . The 100 wagons got painted surprisingly quickly, and the old livery wagons were very heavily weathered.
Here's a photo from the period https://flic.kr/p/QJHHhw
Any DEMU members may be interested to look at issue 96 of Update which includes an article I wrote about the usage of these wagons. It includes a consist graphic too, which may help with livery mixes. I'll try to see if I can export that in a forum friendly format when I'm on the laptop
Jo
ok great thanks jo for info!
nice picture with 58006
i just watched a video from 1995 which showed an arc livery 59 pulling original yeoman jhas so was wondering when they changed livery.
cheers
tim
Mendip Rail, a joint venture between Yeoman and ARC (later Hanson) wad formed in 1994, so 'wrong' livery locos appeared from that time onwards. There was also pooling of some of the box wagons, indeed the Hallen Moor trains for the second severn crossing used mixes of ARC and Yeoman in the same train. The hopper wagons however generally tended to run to and from the correct owning quarry, and if they loaded at the "wrong" quarry it'd be a whole rake, rather than a jumble of Yeoman and ARC wagons
Jo
Here we go then, hope this is of use to someone. This isn't the be all and end all, but hopefully gives a flavour to operations with the O&K hoppers. The jumbo trains to and from London are reguarly over 40 wagons with a single 59 up front.
Best thing to do is right click and select view image in new tab, this will let you read the text and see the detail.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/126/9393-091022234349.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=126632)
Jo
A simple question for all of you clever people I hope. I see the Dapol versions of the JHA are classed as inner and outer. Is it as simple as the 1st and last wagons are outer and the rest inner? Or are they in sets of 5 or another number?
hi
i understand that sometimes more than two outers were in the train so that it could be split up in to portions easily.
i have ordered 4 outers and 10 inners. i hope they fit in my longest storage loop. a class 56 is on stand by ready to take the train for a test run.
tim
That makes sense. So, I believe if I want a rake of 10 which will never be split up I could use 2 outers and 8 inners. Or, if at some point in its journey it split into 2 trains then 4 outers and 6 inners?
Now arriving in shops....
Steven B
Quote from: Trainfish on October 25, 2022, 01:20:37 PM
That makes sense. So, I believe if I want a rake of 10 which will never be split up I could use 2 outers and 8 inners. Or, if at some point in its journey it split into 2 trains then 4 outers and 6 inners?
The split explanation makes sense to me as I have also been told they ran with rakes as short as 18, thus these trains would only have a paid of outers (presume most unloading points could handle 18 wagons?).
Personally have ordered 2 outer and 8 inner for a rake of 10. This will look respectable and maybe one day I can expand.
Skyline2uk
Quote from: Skyline2uk on October 25, 2022, 01:44:24 PM
The split explanation makes sense to me as I have also been told they ran with rakes as short as 18, thus these trains would only have a paid of outers (presume most unloading points could handle 18 wagons?).
Personally have ordered 2 outer and 8 inner for a rake of 10. This will look respectable and maybe one day I can expand.
Skyline2uk
That's exactly what I have just ordered too. Once assembled into a rake I will see if I can add a few more to lengthen it. I reckon I could maybe stretch to 16. Let's call this one a 'suffering Covid purchase' and once I've got rid of it hope I don't get it again any time soon.
Quote from: Steven B on October 25, 2022, 01:29:36 PM
Now arriving in shops....
Steven B
And soon to be arriving in Devizes :thumbsup:
Each depot will have a particular number of wagons it can receive and train lengths will be based around this.
Terminal A can take 19, so Merehead will shunt 19 wagons together to form that train. This could be 2 outers and 17 inners, or something as exotic as outer, outer, outer, 8 inners, outer, outer, 5 inners and a final outer.
Terminal B takes 15 wagons, so Merehead need to knock 4 out before the set reloads. This could be a block of 4, or individuals down the train, particular if those being knocked out are cripples.
The addition of IIAs and HOAs to the Mendip fleet (which are singles, with buffers both ends) means if you need to add wagons to a set, you may just add the required number to one end, as it is less shunting than splitting the set.
The only hard and fast rule of inners and outers is that you always need an even number of outers.
I've sent the graphic I posted a few post back, and an accompanying text to Neale for an upcoming journal and am working on a similar graphic for the class 59s.
Any questions fire away and I'll do my best to help.
Jo
thanks jo for the info on this
test run...
https://youtu.be/JGJSa2UhoEM
they are very heavy!
westbury based 56056 not impressed! awaiting a general motors loco to take over... (the 56 has always been v slow runner though tbf)
i hope the revolution 59 is powerful
i'll switch to a class 60 tomorrow once i retrieve it from its box.
i'll add another 6 hoppers at a later date as well so it looks a bit more realistic.
tim
I have no use for these whatsoever, totally out of region, but I've always liked them. :hmmm:
Quote from: bluedepot on October 28, 2022, 08:53:02 PM
test run...
https://youtu.be/JGJSa2UhoEM
they are very heavy!
westbury based 56056 not impressed! awaiting a general motors loco to take over... (the 56 has always been v slow runner though tbf)
i hope the revolution 59 is powerful
i'll switch to a class 60 tomorrow once i retrieve it from its box.
i'll add another 6 hoppers at a later date as well so it looks a bit more realistic.
tim
They seem to run ok, but when you say "heavy" do you mean their weight or does there seem to be a lot of drag? I have seen two reports of poorly running / dragging wheel sets?
I am anxious to find out as much as possible as my order of 10 is imminently arriving.
Skyline2uk
I saw TomE on RMWeb saying the wheelsets rub the underside of the body (adding drag), which is disappointing.
He definitely means heavy as in weighty but possibly the drag effect too. It would be interesting to know if @bluedepot (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=114) has experienced the same drag issues as myself and AN Other mentioned on the Fakebook group though. Also whether there were any broken coupling issues. As mentioned on there I am sending 3 back with broken couplings as below:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-281022013554-127085911.jpeg)
The reason for this it seems is the way they were put into the box inserts. They seem to be pushed towards 1 end and not in the preformed tray as they should be:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-281022013554-1270851782.jpeg)
The end wagons also seem to suffer from the mk3 coach uncoupling syndrome where the coupling arm rises over points but doesn't drop back down meaning they will either uncouple immediately or when they next encounter a curve:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-281022013555-127087263.jpeg)
Close coupling between wagons is good though:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-281022013555-127087421.jpeg)
And finally my short video of the 7 which are ok. I have ordered 6 more too so will have a rake of 16 eventually:
hi everyone
i meant heavy in terms of weight.
there is drag as well though - and i think some wheelsets are rubbing on the underside of the wagons (you can hear the noise they make). they are not very free rolling anyway. i may try oiling the axle pin points. any other suggestions?
i didn't have any broken couplings.
the rapido couplings on the outer wagons were a tiny bit high but i didnt have any uncouplings. i don't have any gradients which helps.
i think they have made the wagons too heavy to be honest. it seems excessive.
the close couplings worked fine so far.
i do like the wagons appearance but a bit concerned with them not being free rolling - esp. for when i add more to the rake. i dont really understand why the factory didnt try pushing them along some track to check they rolled along nicely. seems a v basic test!
cheers
tim
The full NGN review is here: https://www.ngaugenews.com/post/review-dapol-foster-yeoman-o-k-jha-hopper-wagons (https://www.ngaugenews.com/post/review-dapol-foster-yeoman-o-k-jha-hopper-wagons)
I found the wheels are rubbing on the underside of the chassis, causing drag on anything but the flattest of trackwork.
A shame as they are visually great looking wagons.
Tom.
I haven't experienced the wheel rubbing mentioned here and in the NGN review but will have a look at mine to see if this is an issue. If it is then it may be easy to dremel out a little above the wheels. I know you shouldn't have to but they are such a nice model I wouldn't have an issue with trying this. I did find a couple of axles weren't rotating as freely as I would have liked but using the age old trick of squeezing each end of the axle boxes together, like with Peco, this seemed to sort them out. I do agree that they are unnecessarily heavy though so may even take a look at 1 to see if this can be reduced at all as 16 in a rake could be tough going for some locomotives. I will also try a Hunt magnetic coupling on the end which will solve the uncoupling issue on mine as long as the magnetic is ok with all that weight behind it.
I am due to have 6 more delivered tomorrow so once I've checked for broken couplings I will have a look at what i have left and report back :thumbsup:
One of mine suffered from the broken coupler syndrome. I agree that it is caused by the wagon not being put into the clamshell with the couplers correctly aligned to the cutout. Mine roll freely but I only have 7 at the moment hauled by a Kato Class 77, and only a test oval with a siding. Propelling into the siding over a Kato #4 turnout has been problem free. However, Before running them I did check the back to backs (one wheelset was way over at almost 8.0mm) and made sure the close coupler mechanism moved freely side to side. I have lost one of the curved handrails by the ladder.
I have a rake of 10 so far running and over half have the wheel rubbing issue, I need to think of a fix for this or it will drive me mad ! Very disappointing for an otherwise good wagon.
JW
The wheel rubbing thing is totally unnecessary. Anyone with a Farish BDA, pop a bogie off and have a look at the recesses underneath. Poor design from Dapol, and when I raised on their digest about the axlebox location issue on the 4mm model, the reply didn't fill me with confidence about the engineering of wagons, real or model.
I was excited for these, but now wait with baited breath. Should be here today according to Royal Mail.
Jo
Hi Gang,
4 out of the 8 I received have broken couplings, ironically both 104 and both 105 model numbers. Not even bothered to try the rolling resistance yet. A phone call to the retailer is on the cards this morning to source replacements or refunds.
I'm assuming this is going to be an expensive episode for Dapol!!
Later,
Stu from EGVN
Had my first inspection of some of these today (a fellow area group member brought some to our AGM), and because I was expecting problems, I was actually impressed.
If these things arrive in one piece they are actually decent. Having ran them all afternoon around the inner track of Kato's tightest canted curves, we had no derailments or uncoupling. Yes the inner couplings are fiddly as hell (mine will be replaced by magnetic ones), but the close coupling is impressive.
The dragging issue was apparent on some but we have developed some theories to improve this which I will report back on if any of mine suffer from it. I really hope I can put together a decent rake of unbroken coupling examples now.
Skyline2uk
hi everyone
i wonder if a shim washer would fix the problem?
the bogies pull out very easily. a shim washer might just lift the body away from the wheels enough to solve the problem.
the body is metal so unless you have the tools to mill out metal i dont know what you can do really.
4 / 8 of mine are just about acceptable when pushed along in terms of free running. they do still make some strange noises running around the layout though which suggests still not right.
the other 4 have major drag issues.
one option is to send them all back and buy yeoman pta wagons instead... but tbh i prefer jhas.
cheers
tim
Hi Gang,
Had a look at taking some apart to look at how easy(or difficult) it may be to change the couplings. I'm of the thinking that it is a prospect too far for all but the most accomplished of modellers. I had the sides off and the close coupling spring, but still found them impossible to deal with. This is a problem for the company to resolve.
And....I had to re-attach 2 out of the 4 tie down attachments when I got them all back together...that was tricky enough.
I may call time on these and seek a refund!
Later,
Stu from EGVN
(Still disappointed).
Quote from: bluedepot on October 30, 2022, 08:26:25 PM
hi everyone
i wonder if a shim washer would fix the problem?
the bogies pull out very easily. a shim washer might just lift the body away from the wheels enough to solve the problem.
the body is metal so unless you have the tools to mill out metal i dont know what you can do really.
4 / 8 of mine are just about acceptable when pushed along in terms of free running. they do still make some strange noises running around the layout though which suggests still not right.
the other 4 have major drag issues.
one option is to send them all back and buy yeoman pta wagons instead... but tbh i prefer jhas.
cheers
tim
The washer / shim is my plan.
The chap who brought the wagons to the AGM today had already experimented with paper shims and seen a marked improvement so as soon as a I can measure mine (if needed), I will see what I can source.
Skyline2uk
I have ordered some very fine shim's from eBay so will see how these work when they arrive. Failing that it looks like grinding some of the floor away for clearance. I find some of the Quality Control on n gauge models alarming and that is not just Dapol.
JW
you've inspired me to not send them back to hattons just yet lol
they do look great, just its so annoying when you cant run your new trains straight out of the box without problems.
can you link me to the shims please jw?
cheers
tim
I think I'll carry on running my Ian Stoate Models Yeoman JHAs, I built around 20 years ago.......
Quote from: Skyline2uk on October 30, 2022, 08:42:08 PM
The washer / shim is my plan.
Skyline2uk
Mine too. I was going to look at this yesterday but didn't get round to it. I may get a chance today but if not it will be interesting to hear how @portsmouth06 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1842) gets on with his.
Plasticard may even be another solution.
I've made some plastic washers from 10thou plasticard. A very noticeable improvement.
Graham
Does a washer make the wagons look noticeably too tall?
Jo
I took a picture but blowed if I can load it.
Yes you can see the difference, it's ok for me but ymmv
Graham
edit: looks like it may be attached
Here's the picture from @gram (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7047) in case you have any trouble loading the pdf. My remaining 6 arrived today so I will try to have a little play with them (will check for broken couplers first) later to see what I can achieve.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-311022143750-1271791137.jpeg)
Quote from: Trainfish on October 31, 2022, 02:39:58 PM
Here's the picture from @gram (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7047) in case you have any trouble loading the pdf. My remaining 6 arrived today so I will try to have a little play with them (will check for broken couplers first) later to see what I can achieve.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-311022143750-1271791137.jpeg)
Assume the wagon on the LH has had the shim added?
To my eyes it looks ok.
Skyline2uk
Intriguing, thanks for that
Jo
Yes it's the one on the left.
Not an ideal arrangement but I'll be keeping mine.
Graham
(Thanks Trainfish)
Dapol had a train of these running on their display layout at TINGS on both days. I wonder how much they fettled their wagons to get them to run without any issues, or if they had a pre-production batch that didn't have this problem?
Bob
Quote from: Bob G on October 31, 2022, 02:57:00 PM
Dapol had a train of these running on their display layout at TINGS on both days. I wonder how much they fettled their wagons to get them to run without any issues, or if they had a pre-production batch that didn't have this problem?
Bob
I have been thinking the same.
There was 6 (?) being hauled by a Dapol 66 (not exactly known for hauling the Earth) and at one point positively rocketing around the track!
Skyline2uk
Quote from: Bob G on October 31, 2022, 02:57:00 PM
Dapol had a train of these running on their display layout at TINGS on both days. I wonder how much they fettled their wagons to get them to run without any issues, or if they had a pre-production batch that didn't have this problem?
Bob
Attacking the chassis with a Dremel or fitting a spacer sounds beyond some Saturday morning fettling on their stand :D I wonder if what they ran was the limit for the loco?
Anyway, sitting here wibbling isn't getting decals drawn. Tea break over!
Jo
to be fair my 8 ran ok on test - just the noise gave away the drag issue. also if you try a push along test you soon realise how badly they roll.
no derailment though on my test run and i found the couplers ok.
anyway i think the shim adding 0.25 mm shown in the pic looked fine. i will try 0.1 or 0.2mm first and see what works.
cheers
tim
some 0.2mm m4 shim washers arrived in the post.
outer diameter is 6mm.
i'll try them later on. i need to cut out a small wedge for the coupling spring.
i have accidentally broken a tie down hook off a wagon.
tim
Still waiting for my shims to arrive in post, hopefully this will work as don't really want to start grinding the floor of the wagon.
I also have managed to knock off a couple of the lashing hooks and that will be tricky to fix back, will need to think about the best way to do that as so far they have gone flying while holding with tweezers !
JW
I spent a bit of time with these yesterday as I have 16 of them and think that they are worth tinkering with just a little. Ok so 3 are going back due to broken couplers but a rake of 13 would be a good start.
Firstly the issues with the wheels. I tried a back to back gauge and found that if I set them correctly the wheels would rub on the bogie frames and would struggle to turn. So as mentioned in a previous post of mine I squeezed either side of the bogie at the end of the axle and this made them free. I'm sure some of you remember having to do this with Peco wagons.
Next was the issue of the wheels rubbing against the bottom of the wagon. I was going to try some plasticard but being a lazy sod I thought maybe small thin washers would work. I looked through everything I have both in the garage and the van and the smallest I could find were 4mm which is ok but the outside diameter was far too big. I looked on Screwfix for 3mm washers and they had 2 types. One of them says it is 7mm outside diameter and 0.5mm thick. Worth a try I thought at the grand cost of £1.34 (- my 5% discount) for 100, enough to do 50 wagons :goggleeyes: So, off I went and came back home with a pack of these (https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-steel-flat-washers-m3-x-0-5mm-100-pack/572ft). I measured 1 and it was actually 0.62mm thick but what's 0.12mm between friends? Ah yes, almost 18mm in the big world before someone tells me so.
Anyway, I tried one and it fitted perfectly as below:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-021122173104-1272682231.jpeg)
So, I tried another one and compared the ride height to a wagon which hadn't had the washers fitted with the result below. In theory and in real life the wagon body has been raised a total of almost 92mm or 3.622047 inches in old measurements. Now tell me, if you saw 1 of these wagons in real life and the body had been raised by 4 inches would you actually notice without measuring it? I know I wouldn't. Anyway, here's how it compares:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-021122173102-1272661033.jpeg)
I then tried a 'push test' to see if a wagon would roll freely. Here's the result:
Ok it looks like a big difference when this close up but again, if the whole rake has been lifted are you going to notice if you don't put it alongside another? Needless to say I only have 74 of these washers left as 13 wagons are fitted with them now.
Moving on to the inter wagon couplers. I really don't like those which have been supplied and they can be very fiddly at times. I had to turn a couple of them upside down to engage them properly and I do worry that in the long term that either the coupler or the NEM socket could become loose or even worse, break :goggleeyes:
So. As I have a few dozen Hunt magnetic couplers I thought I would try those. This is how they compare:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-021122173102-127266130.jpeg)
These are the 'close coupling' lengths but I'm afraid they're not close enough. I do like the closeness of the originals and it would be nice to replicate this with magnetic couplers. Maybe an email will be sent to West Hill Wagon Works (https://westhillwagonworks.co.uk/) to se if they can make something shorter. Here's a view from above:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-021122173037-1272591367.jpeg)
Although not pictured I have replaced the coupler on 1 of the end wagons with a magnetic coupler to couple to the loco due to the random uncoupling experienced a few days ago. These seem ok.
Ok, onto haulage and a few videos. Firstly here's a Dapol class 56 hauling 9 of the Yeoman wagons at about 25% on a Morley Vortrak controller:
Not a problem so let's try 13 wagons:
Again not a problem and all running smoothly.
How about a new Dapol 58:
Again no problem.
I'm sure someone somewhere said that a Dapol class 66 couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding so let's try the 66. Unfortunately I didn't have any rice pudding to hand so just the 13 wagons again:
I didn't see a problem there, did you?
Now for a big test for a little loco, the smallest loco I have, a Farish 03:
Ok so that 1 failed but remember, these wagons are
heavy!
So, all in all I'm happy with the ride height, not so happy with the fiddlyness of the couplings and I'm very happy with the way they all now freewheel easily. I look forward to having the other 3 replaced so I can run a rake of 16 but then again, I do like the number 20....................... :hmmm:
Here's a video from a distance where you can see the whole rake of 13 at the same time. It's just a shame that the delayed class 50 with a rake of Mk2s got in the way at 1 point :veryangry:
Feel free to comment/criticise on all of the above as everyone has different standards, rivets to count etc but overall I'm very happy with these. I now have to think about adding a load to them................
Quote from: Trainfish on November 02, 2022, 06:57:07 PM
Now tell me, if you saw 1 of these wagons in real life and the body had been raised by 4 inches would you actually notice without measuring it? I know I wouldn't.
I probably would, but then I'm a driver and more importantly for wagons an ex shunter, so sort of what I'm trained in. :D oh, and I'm a sarky so and so ;)
Hopefully West Hill can do a coupling that looks a bit like a pair of buckeyes when they're together, like they've done in 4mm.
Jo
Thanks for the very informative and entertaining post Trainfish. Would you please tell me what part of the couplings have broken, as mentioned in your post ? Is it part of the kinetic mech on the wagon side, or is it the removable NEM compatible part that has broken ? Perhaps you even have a picture of a broken one ?
excellent post trainfish and very useful!
ive been too tired to do anything this evening. it seems like everyone is on the same path with shim washers anyway.
i might be tempted with magnetic close couplers. would definitely buy a trial packet anyway.
cheers
tim
Quote from: Brian-1c on November 02, 2022, 07:40:21 PM
Thanks for the very informative and entertaining post Trainfish. Would you please tell me what part of the couplings have broken, as mentioned in your post ? Is it part of the kinetic mech on the wagon side, or is it the removable NEM compatible part that has broken ? Perhaps you even have a picture of a broken one ?
On the broken ones I have seen, the piece that breaks off is the coupler pocket and adjoining vertical link from it to the kinematic mechanism. It is not obvious to me how it can be repaired.
Edit: Just found a photo in the NGF Facebook group in a topic started on 26 October by Simon Gregory. There is a post by John Wilcock which shows the exact same breakage as on one of my wagons.
Excellent work Trainfish, hoping I can do similar when the bits arrive in the post
JW
Quote from: woodbury22uk on November 02, 2022, 07:51:03 PM
Quote from: Brian-1c on November 02, 2022, 07:40:21 PM
Thanks for the very informative and entertaining post Trainfish. Would you please tell me what part of the couplings have broken, as mentioned in your post ? Is it part of the kinetic mech on the wagon side, or is it the removable NEM compatible part that has broken ? Perhaps you even have a picture of a broken one ?
On the broken ones I have seen, the piece that breaks off is the coupler pocket and adjoining vertical link from it to the kinematic mechanism. It is not obvious to me how it can be repaired.
OK thanks for that info. That is a definite return, which would be a problem for me, as there is no functioning post office in my vicinity, so would entail the high cost of couriers, both for the return and receipt again.
Quote from: steadfast on November 02, 2022, 07:26:51 PM
Quote from: Trainfish on November 02, 2022, 06:57:07 PM
Now tell me, if you saw 1 of these wagons in real life and the body had been raised by 4 inches would you actually notice without measuring it? I know I wouldn't.
I probably would, but then I'm a driver and more importantly for wagons an ex shunter, so sort of what I'm trained in. :D oh, and I'm a sarky so and so ;)
Hopefully West Hill can do a coupling that looks a bit like a pair of buckeyes when they're together, like they've done in 4mm.
Jo
Yep, I knew there would be one :thumbsup:
Quote from: Brian-1c on November 02, 2022, 07:40:21 PM
Thanks for the very informative and entertaining post Trainfish. Would you please tell me what part of the couplings have broken, as mentioned in your post ? Is it part of the kinetic mech on the wagon side, or is it the removable NEM compatible part that has broken ? Perhaps you even have a picture of a broken one ?
Here you go, it's this part
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-281022013554-127085911.jpeg)
Quote from: woodbury22uk on November 02, 2022, 07:51:03 PM
On the broken ones I have seen, the piece that breaks off is the coupler pocket and adjoining vertical link from it to the kinematic mechanism. It is not obvious to me how it can be repaired.
Edit: Just found a photo in the NGF Facebook group in a topic started on 26 October by Simon Gregory. There is a post by John Wilcock which shows the exact same breakage as on one of my wagons.
Spot on, exactly as you say on the Facebook post. That John Wilcock chap seems to be a helpful soul doesn't he?
In fact going on his posts I've ordered 4 more. A rake of 20 should look quite realistic. I just hope that the Revolution class 59s are going to be up to the job as I have 2 Yeomans and an ARC on order. I'm sure they will manage 20 of these.............
I sooo want a rake of these, but as @Brian-1c (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=9720) says the thought of having to send some back is worrying. I have a Yeoman 59 on order from Revolution which would look good on the front of these. Maybe will see if some are around next year as I can then take them back to the UK with me for return.
Or you could get them sent to someone in the UK who could check them over, return any faulty ones and send on to you when all are ok?
but then I would pay 20% VAT on them, by getting them sent here I lose the VAT, which typically pays for the shipping.
Ah right, I hadn't thought of that. I don't suppose it's worth you asking Rails if they can deduct it and still send them to a UK address? I'm guessing they won't do that but just thought I would mention it.
I do wonder if it was just the early ones of the first batch which had the damages though. 2 of my initial 10 were damaged, none of the next 6, and I'll let you know what the remaining 4 are like when I receive them. Maybe they had the same delivery driver as Rapido in this video................
Please note that this wasn't Rapido's fault and they do give the models a thorough check before sending the good ones out to customers. It's also good (I think) to see how the packaging of each one protected the contents :thumbsup:
I did get to see this the other day, just shows how good the packaging is nowadays, I had a similar experience with a Revolution delivery, but once inside the wagons were fine.
I always ask for loco's to be tested before sending out to me, both Rails and Kernow test before sending. Maybe will have to ask them to test the rolling stock as well.
Good idea. At least you will know all of the issues others have had and ask them to check for these before sending to you down there :thumbsup:
My 10 have arrive today all ok nothing broken or dropped of yet but all have rubbing wheels so will looking to see what others do to solve this
as to the couplings i have replace them with short shanked Rapido's and not worry to much about the gap
John
Quickest and easiest fix in my opinion is to fit these washers (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=54853.msg778791#msg778791) as long as you're happy with the wagon bodies sitting that tiny bit higher. Personally I don't notice it.
Morning all - I see there is healthy discussion over the O&K's. I just want to check something if I may....
I received my replacements from Hattons yesterday, so I now have a rake of 18. In terms of running, they're terrible (as expected) but I'm happy to try the shims and other suggestions as others have mentioned, but I have 3 which have the coupling detached at one end as per the picture from Trainfish (above) - this is progress as I had at least 4 last time......
Can someone definitively tell me if this is repairable or not? (it doesn't look like it to me), before I send them back for the 'third time lucky' :censored:
It is such a shame that these wagons are like this, I have five 59's on order which need something to pull so desperately want to keep them!
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Simon
Ignore my previous post - after spending some time looking at the 3 wagons, I see that the coupling has indeed snapped off completely from its mounting. This is extremely worrying considering the poor design of the inter wagon couplers - the amount of effort required to couple/uncouple them is highly likely to result in snapping more of them off. So Hunt couplers it is, bigger gap or not!
Just as an aside, has anyone contacted Dapol directly about these wagons? Was thinking of writing to them and seeing what they plan on doing about this longer term - £600+ is a lot to spend on wagons that really aren't fit for purpose......
There are some posts on the Dapol forum (and they have been responded to) regarding the wheels rubbing but nothing I can see regarding the couplings. I want to post something there but I'm having trouble logging in at the moment.
Joel from Dapol has been active on a thread on their digest
https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/freight-stock-aa/post-tops-wagons/9968-o-k-jha-wagons
Perhaps worth a post there, it seems to be the most active it's been in ages on there.
For what it's worth, I think the bar couplers may even couple the wagons a bit too close together compared to the real things. Yes buckeyes and no buffers mean close coupling, but these are super close!
Edit as @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262) posted while I was typing. Totally agree!
Jo
I've just registered for the forum and activated my account, but can't see any obvious way of replying to a thread.....
In any case, I've filled out their 'Contact Us' web form outlining the problems and asking how they plan to rectify the situation. Very disappointing to read this comment though: "There are tolerances on both the wheels and the body. As most wagons are not subject to this interference the eroor must be very small and, this may work.. We will look at rectifying this if we do make any more."
Doesn't really help. I can for-see this going down the route of the Mk1 9F i.e 'We know acknowledge there's a problem with the leading pony truck, its our fault but you need to fork out more money for this kit to fix it' - which involved wholesale surgery of your expensive locomotive....
It goes without saying I hope I'm wrong!
I still can't sign in to the Dapol digest forum. I get an error message saying "Invalid Page URL. If this is an error and the page should exist, please contact the system administrator and tell them how you got this message." Erm, how can I contact the admin if I can't get in? The only email address I can see is for sales.
Anyway, I have emailed West Hill Wagon Works to see if they would be interested in making a better/shorter coupling for these and possible future models. I included my pictures for comparison too. They haven't been the best in replying to emails recently though so although I will be patient I won't hold my breath.
Quote from: Trainfish on November 06, 2022, 02:48:36 PM
I still can't sign in to the Dapol digest forum. I get an error message saying "Invalid Page URL. If this is an error and the page should exist, please contact the system administrator and tell them how you got this message." Erm, how can I contact the admin if I can't get in? The only email address I can see is for sales.
Anyway, I have emailed West Hill Wagon Works to see if they would be interested in making a better/shorter coupling for these and possible future models. I included my pictures for comparison too. They haven't been the best in replying to emails recently though so although I will be patient I won't hold my breath.
I managed to login but no way of posting :( Will try again tomorrow.
Of the 15 wagons that aren't going back for replacement again, I've fitted them all with Hunt Elites and agree, they are a little bit too long, but agree with Steadfast in that the supplied couplers make them look too close together. Have also ordered some shims so I can at least get them moving without burning out one or more loco's trying to drag them round my layout (currently have double headed 56's which made for a basic test they don't derail at least!).
As in 1 of my previous posts I have managed to pull 13 which have washers added without a problem using various locos single headed. Only the class 03 failed. I should have 4 more tomorrow and 3 more hopefully towards the end of the week so will report back with a video of all 20 as soon as I can. I'm still in 2 minds with the couplings as I would like them to be shorter. I don't mind if they are a little longer than those supplied but just not sure about the shortest available at the moment. I may well change my mind at some point though.
Quote from: SGregory on November 06, 2022, 02:39:42 PM
I've just registered for the forum and activated my account, but can't see any obvious way of replying to a thread.....
In any case, I've filled out their 'Contact Us' web form outlining the problems and asking how they plan to rectify the situation. Very disappointing to read this comment though: "There are tolerances on both the wheels and the body. As most wagons are not subject to this interference the eroor must be very small and, this may work.. We will look at rectifying this if we do make any more."
Doesn't really help. I can for-see this going down the route of the Mk1 9F i.e 'We know acknowledge there's a problem with the leading pony truck, its our fault but you need to fork out more money for this kit to fix it' - which involved wholesale surgery of your expensive locomotive....
It goes without saying I hope I'm wrong!
The counter to that is what would you like them to do? You can return them at no cost. They are taking on board feedback for a future run. It's not realistic that they'd reject the entire run if we believe them that the number so affected is comparatively small (at least it isn't universal). Perhaps if it turns out that 0.2mm shims resolves it then perhaps they could offer these as a no-cost solution. They may still do that.
Frustrating given they look great.
I do believe they may well do that with the shims as it would be a lot more cost effective (less loss) to them to supply shims than reject every wagon especially when you factor in admin time etc.
I wonder if it was as simple as the pre-production versions that Dapol received, and which worked fine at TINGS, had finer wheel rims than the production batch?
Stranger things have happened. And it looks like the tolerances are pretty fine.
I've not purchased these, as they are out of my modelling eras (though I had contemplated them before I saw Revolution offer the bogie tipplers), but I wonder if anyone has looked at swapping out the axles for different ones?
I'm up for the Revolution original (1986 version) Class 59 plus Yeoman tipplers, in case anyone was wondering.
Bob
Quote
The counter to that is what would you like them to do? You can return them at no cost. They are taking on board feedback for a future run. It's not realistic that they'd reject the entire run if we believe them that the number so affected is comparatively small (at least it isn't universal). Perhaps if it turns out that 0.2mm shims resolves it then perhaps they could offer these as a no-cost solution. They may still do that.
Frustrating given they look great.
What would I like them to do? Well call me old fashioned, but I'd like a product that wasn't faulty out of the box.....
I appreciate what you're saying, but look at it from my point of view - I spent in excess of £600 for models that are effectively useless without me making some kind of repair. In any other business, a faulty product is rectified by the manufacturer, not by the customer.
To simply say 'We'll look at it
if we make any more' is a massive cop out. Realistically there are just two suitable solutions for me:
1. Take back the wagons, repair them so they run smoothly and send them back to me (all at Dapol's cost) OR
2. Refund me 50% of the cost of the wagons and I'll repair them myself.
Over on the Dapol digest, Joel is suggesting none of the QC procedures picked up this fault - I find this very hard rot believe. Dapol are more than capable of making a smooth running, detailed model - take the HIA's for example, I have 16 of those and they are perfect - no issues with any of them whatsoever, so they can do it.
hi
the 0.2 mm thick shims are too thin i have found. close though, and it did resolve the issue on a few wagons i tried but not all of them.
i am going to try 0. 5 mm shims instead.
as a gesture of good will i think dapol should actually buy shim washers and send them out to any customers who ask for them!
cheers
tim
What about 2x0.2 mm shims as well/instead?
Quote from: SGregory on November 06, 2022, 06:37:56 PM
Quote
The counter to that is what would you like them to do? You can return them at no cost. They are taking on board feedback for a future run. It's not realistic that they'd reject the entire run if we believe them that the number so affected is comparatively small (at least it isn't universal). Perhaps if it turns out that 0.2mm shims resolves it then perhaps they could offer these as a no-cost solution. They may still do that.
Frustrating given they look great.
What would I like them to do? Well call me old fashioned, but I'd like a product that wasn't faulty out of the box.....
I appreciate what you're saying, but look at it from my point of view - I spent in excess of £600 for models that are effectively useless without me making some kind of repair. In any other business, a faulty product is rectified by the manufacturer, not by the customer.
To simply say 'We'll look at it if we make any more' is a massive cop out. Realistically there are just two suitable solutions for me:
1. Take back the wagons, repair them so they run smoothly and send them back to me (all at Dapol's cost) OR
2. Refund me 50% of the cost of the wagons and I'll repair them myself.
Over on the Dapol digest, Joel is suggesting none of the QC procedures picked up this fault - I find this very hard rot believe. Dapol are more than capable of making a smooth running, detailed model - take the HIA's for example, I have 16 of those and they are perfect - no issues with any of them whatsoever, so they can do it.
But there are practical constraints to that. They can't fix the underlying issue on this batch, so saying they'll add rebates next time seems reasonable. They haven't yet said that they won't provide shims, as said you can already return them if you're dissatisfied. 50% off is absolute fantasy territory IMO. I'd quite like Dapol to remain in business. One has to have a degree of pragmatism.
Quote
But there are practical constraints to that. They can't fix the underlying issue on this batch, so saying they'll add rebates next time seems reasonable. They haven't yet said that they won't provide shims, as said you can already return them if you're dissatisfied. 50% off is absolute fantasy territory IMO. I'd quite like Dapol to remain in business. One has to have a degree of pragmatism.
You say 50% is fantasy, but what on earth are consumers like me supposed to think after spending so much money?
I'd also like Dapol to remain in business, but charging premium prices for continually sub-standard product is not the way to go about it. For whatever reason, they seem to get a free pass with lots of people, which is astonishing.
Quite why that is I have no idea, sure another manufacturer gives us as modellers more choice, but poor design and patchy build quality are slowly ruining whatever reputation they have.
These days, it simply isn't enough to produce the odd run of models that are up to standard here or there (like the HIA or Clay Bullets, both excellent representations of their respective prototypes). Particularly when both the new and established players in town are going from strength to strength in terms of detail and consistent quality.
I personally don't have all the answers, I just know that if it were my business and my customers thought as I (and a lot of other people undoubtedly do), I would be doing everything in my power to rectify those problems.
The silver bullets are terrible runners, they do look good though! Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting people should accept 'sub standard' products, but they're also at the point of discovering this is an issue clearly. Now whether you think Joel is outright lying, or their QC wasn't up to scratch, or it genuinely is a small subset of models affected is a bit moot. Like so many models, from any number of brands, they're at the point of probably deciding what, if anything, to do. Plenty of precedent for manufacturers fixing an item after the fact. Dapol issued new 68 bodyshells in OO after a printing error, likewise the Strathclyde 156s. Revolution replacing wheelsets on IWAs to fix running issues.
I hope they don't do anything and they languish in sale baskets, then I'll pick them up cheap!
QuoteI hope they don't do anything and they languish in sale baskets, then I'll pick them up cheap!
I wasn't thinking that guv, honest >:D
Skyline2uk
Quote from: Skyline2uk on November 06, 2022, 10:43:21 PM
QuoteI hope they don't do anything and they languish in sale baskets, then I'll pick them up cheap!
I wasn't thinking that guv, honest >:D
Skyline2uk
Me neither. I honestly won't be looking to buy another rake of 20 but this time carrying the later livery but if I did I still have 60 of my £1.34 washers to use up :thumbsup:
The financial pain is going to come sooner rather than later at Dapol when the broken coupler returned wagons start accumulating from retailers. Looking at the packaging and the identical failure mode across several wagons, this is almost certainly due to the coupler arm being tilted up or down when packed rather than with the coupler arm and coupler correctly located horizontally in the packaging.
Unlike the rubbing wheels where amelioration is possible with a shim, the broken coupler arm does not appear to be repairable without installing a new part, which means dismantling the whole wagon.
You're not wrong on that @woodbury22uk (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1599). I've sent 7 back already for snapped couplings, 4 previously and now 3 of the replacements going back - I was looking to see if I could repair them but as you say, there is no possible way. Looks like a new mount it required. This was despite asking the retailer to have them QC checked before leaving....
The coupling arm is one of the reasons I switched to magnetic inter-wagon couplings, the supplied items require too much pressure to couple/uncouple most of the time - another failure waiting to happen there.
Whilst we are adding fuel to the fire, there is another issue.
It looks like the detail parts are prone to breaking off when the wagons are being coupled with the bar couplers. The steps and platforms are vulnerable if the wagons are coupled upside down, and handrails and tiedowns etc. are vulnerable if coupled on their sides. Then the five wagon snake has to be transferred to a straight section of track with all twenty wheelsets aligned with the rails. Inevitably bits will be knocked off.
The wagons look lovely in their boxes with an impressive level of detail, but getting a rake running smoothly by shimming the pivots and coupling up without knocking bits off certainly take the edge off.
Quote from: woodbury22uk on November 07, 2022, 09:11:34 AM
Whilst we are adding fuel to the fire, there is another issue.
It looks like the detail parts are prone to breaking off when the wagons are being coupled with the bar couplers. The steps and platforms are vulnerable if the wagons are coupled upside down, and handrails and tiedowns etc. are vulnerable if coupled on their sides. Then the five wagon snake has to be transferred to a straight section of track with all twenty wheelsets aligned with the rails. Inevitably bits will be knocked off.
The wagons look lovely in their boxes with an impressive level of detail, but getting a rake running smoothly by shimming the pivots and coupling up without knocking bits off certainly take the edge off.
I'm with you there. If you include the replacements I have (and am arranging again), I will have seen 38 of these wagons. About two thirds have had broken couplings and/or fine details - i've kept most of the footsteps that have come off (at least those I know about) for later reattachment, but even whilst fitting the very first magnetic coupler to an end wagon yesterday, I gripped the wagon at the end and managed to break off one of the lashing eyes...gluing that back on was accomplished with more luck than skill I can tell you.
My view is that once i've added the shims and the couplers, these wagons will not be going back in their boxes for any reason - just too much risk of breaking something off.
Quote from: SGregory on November 07, 2022, 09:48:06 AM
My view is that once i've added the shims and the couplers, these wagons will not be going back in their boxes for any reason - just too much risk of breaking something off.
I've been thinking along similar lines. If I don't change to magnetic couplers then my rake of 20 may live in my fiddle yard on a permanent basis. Not a huge problem anyway as I think these will be run rather a lot anyway.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/1842-081122204656.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=127489)
Progress has been made, using a 0.25 shim the wagon wheels now run freely with no drag, much better than grinding the underside of the wagon floor.
The left hand wagon has the shim the right as out of the box. There is a slight height difference if you look closely.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/1842-081122205242.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=127490)
The raised wagon next to the class 59 to show height comparison.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/1842-081122205613.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=127491)
The shim in place on the bogie.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/1842-081122205727.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=127492)
The shim information purchased from Ebay. Hope this info helps someone else out
JW
Cheers
Added to my watch list in case they are needed when my order turns up.
Skyline2uk
Just to assure everyone that Dapol are aware of the wheel-rubbing issues and we are working on a solution. As soon as I have something concrete to post, I will let you know.
Thanks @captainelectra (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=9) I think if they read posts either on here or elsewhere they will already know what the solution is and I have suggested somewhere (either here or on the Fakebook site, I can't remember) this is what they will do, ie supply shims of some description. I'm sure that will be acceptable to most but probably not all. It really is a simple task to add the shims (or in my case metal washers from Screwfix (https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-steel-flat-washers-m3-x-0-5mm-100-pack/572ft)) and they do rectify the issue. I have to say though that the couplers are still a concern if people frequently couple and uncouple them as they appear to be very fragile. I have already sent 3 back to the supplier and now I have another to go back with this issue.
Anyway, I received 4 more of these wagons yesterday. 2 are ok but 2 will be going back again. 1 with the broken coupler as noted above and 1 with a missing railing at 1 end. What annoys me most with these is that I can see both of these issues without even removing the wagon from its packaging. You would think a quick visual check (no need to remove the wagon) by the supplier would be a good idea as it would save them around £4 postage each way for every return.
I can now run a rake of 15 of these as shown below. This rake is being hauled by a Dapol class 58 running at around 30% power from a Vortrak controller. I'm more than happy with the preformance in this video.
Hopefully it won't be long before I can run my full rake of 20 of these and even better behind a Revolution class 59 in the early Yeoman livery :thumbsup:
To quote Raiders of the Lost Ark, "We have our top men working on it."
Seriously though, we are committed to getting this right. Once we have a plan in place, I'll make sure you know..
Perhaps the top men should have been on it in the first place, then the issues could have been sorted before the model was released......Just saying
Quote from: Trainfish on November 08, 2022, 09:57:01 PM
Thanks @captainelectra (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=9) I think if they read posts either on here or elsewhere they will already know what the solution is and I have suggested somewhere (either here or on the Fakebook site, I can't remember) this is what they will do, ie supply shims of some description. I'm sure that will be acceptable to most but probably not all. It really is a simple task to add the shims (or in my case metal washers from Screwfix (https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-steel-flat-washers-m3-x-0-5mm-100-pack/572ft)) and they do rectify the issue. I have to say though that the couplers are still a concern if people frequently couple and uncouple them as they appear to be very fragile. I have already sent 3 back to the supplier and now I have another to go back with this issue.
Anyway, I received 4 more of these wagons yesterday. 2 are ok but 2 will be going back again. 1 with the broken coupler as noted above and 1 with a missing railing at 1 end. What annoys me most with these is that I can see both of these issues without even removing the wagon from its packaging. You would think a quick visual check (no need to remove the wagon) by the supplier would be a good idea as it would save them around £4 postage each way for every return.
I can now run a rake of 15 of these as shown below. This rake is being hauled by a Dapol class 58 running at around 30% power from a Vortrak controller. I'm more than happy with the preformance in this video.
Hopefully it won't be long before I can run my full rake of 20 of these and even better behind a Revolution class 59 in the early Yeoman livery :thumbsup:
Great video what type of cholate did you use for the cutting side :smiley-laughing:
I have manged to find some brass washers in the spares box that are the right size
John
I have a rake of twenty of these sitting in a trunk in Widnes and have been pondering what to do about them since the multiple issues came to light. Based on what @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262) , @captainelectra (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=9) and others have posted, I think I'll have them sent, albeit requesting a check for broken couplings before they're packed, and apply the washer solution to circumvent the dragging wheel problem.
Quote from: Western Exile on November 09, 2022, 03:28:20 PM
I have a rake of twenty of these sitting in a trunk in Widnes and have been pondering what to do about them since the multiple issues came to light. Based on what @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262) , @captainelectra (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=9) and others have posted, I think I'll have them sent, albeit requesting a check for broken couplings before they're packed, and apply the washer solution to circumvent the dragging wheel problem.
Mine were from Hattons and unfortunately, despite asking twice for the replacements to be checked for broken fittings/couplings etc - some of my most recent set turned up damaged. I have 3 more replacements coming to me in the next 1-2 days, again i've asked they're checked before despatch but i'm not optimistic. At this stage it would be easier for me to drive the 120 miles to Widnes to pick them up and check myself!
Quote from: SGregory on November 09, 2022, 03:46:15 PM
Quote from: Western Exile on November 09, 2022, 03:28:20 PM
I have a rake of twenty of these sitting in a trunk in Widnes and have been pondering what to do about them since the multiple issues came to light. Based on what @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262) , @captainelectra (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=9) and others have posted, I think I'll have them sent, albeit requesting a check for broken couplings before they're packed, and apply the washer solution to circumvent the dragging wheel problem.
Mine were from Hattons and unfortunately, despite asking twice for the replacements to be checked for broken fittings/couplings etc - some of my most recent set turned up damaged. I have 3 more replacements coming to me in the next 1-2 days, again i've asked they're checked before despatch but i'm not optimistic. At this stage it would be easier for me to drive the 120 miles to Widnes to pick them up and check myself!
Thanks for that. I'm going to contact them and ask that they're checked before they send them to me. Obviously living in Germany a drive to Widnes isn't an option.
i actually like the close couplings, but like others am a bit concerned they won't survive too much coupling and uncoupling...
so if anyone does get magnetic couplings that still offer fairly close coupling please post on here so i can buy some!
i have 13 jha's now. they sound dreadful despite adding the washers! some flange squeel or something going on! they are reasonably free running though. some have lost steps or tie down hooks from the handling involved in adding the washers and initially when i was testing them a lot.
cheers
tim
Quote from: bluedepot on November 09, 2022, 05:35:26 PM
i have 13 jha's now. they sound dreadful despite adding the washers! some flange squeel or something going on! they are reasonably free running though. some have lost steps or tie down hooks from the handling involved in adding the washers and initially when i was testing them a lot.
Mine originally sounded like that, but I went through every wheel set and checked for free running. A good proportion of the wheel sets were either tight and in one case, one was seized altogether. For any wheels that didn't rotate freely, I removed them and reamed the mounting point out slightly - which seemed to do the trick. I'm now in two minds whether or not to add the shims, as i'm pretty sure mine are only catching on the wheels if I put my finger on top when manually moving them round the track.
If it helps six of my original 10 were rubbing and making a racket when running on the layout, so I added shims to all of them with a lot better running results. The extras on order will all get the same treatment. I think its a shame you have to keep tuning models to get them to run out of the box, as I said previously this is not just a Dapol thing and must put new people off starting in N gauge.
JW
Quote from: portsmouth06 on November 10, 2022, 12:39:34 PM
If it helps six of my original 10 were rubbing and making a racket when running on the layout, so I added shims to all of them with a lot better running results. The extras on order will all get the same treatment. I think its a shame you have to keep tuning models to get them to run out of the box, as I said previously this is not just a Dapol thing and must put new people off starting in N gauge.
JW
I've been back into modelling since 2003 and I can't say I have
ever had to effect immediate repairs on any new wagon or coach made my Farish, Revolution or Peco. To my untrained eye, this very much looks like a lack of oversight and quality control at multiple steps in the design, pre-production and production phases.
There really is no excuse for it, other manufacturers manage it with far fewer instances of design faults/poor build quality etc
For some reason, many N gauge modellers seem to think its 'par for the course' and take it on the chin, despite the sums of money involved, which I always find astonishing.
My retailer has just sent me replacements for the half of the original batch I bought from them which had the faults already mentioned (broken couplings and broken/missing tie hooks or handrails). They paid for the retun postage too. All the replacements had been checked before returning to me, which is a relief. Only one of the returns turned out to still have a broken coupling but luckily the shaft was just within the NEM socket, not the arm, and easily replaced since most wagons seem to have twice as many double couplings as needed.
One wagon had the dreaded squeak and wouldn't freewheel. Swapping over the bogies seems to cure it. I noticed that some of the wagons needed to have their bogies gently pushed home, as though they had not been properly assembled in the first place. There's seems to be just enough play for free running, at least on my layout which doesn't have any sharp gradients.
i have been informed that magnetic couplings are in development from a well known brand of coupling maker...
i have added washers, eased out the break shoes slightly, pushed in the axle points, oiled the axle points, but still some wagons sound horrendous!
anyway i had 11 running ok yesterday. just got a few more to fix up.
i had to paint the underside of some wagons to stop short circuits as well!
these truly are troublesome trucks!
i may need to upgrade my revolution class 59 order to sound fitted just to cover up the wagon squeel noise...
cheers
tim
Just as an update to my situation....
I received my final set of replacements a few days ago, all fittings and couplings present and correct. After much fettling, like pushing the bogies together, adjusting wheel sets and brake shoes etc (with the inevitable loss of one or two since they're quite brittle), my wagons are now finally running to an acceptable standard.
That being said, one or two of them still squeal/squeak loudly on corners, but I'm confident I can sort those out with a little time. Interestingly I haven't bothered with the shims on mine as they didn't seem to make a huge difference.
So I now have 18 running, haulage wise I've tried them with a couple of different Dapol 56's, which struggled a little despite being a hefty model and I've also tried them with one of my 60's - which as expected romps along with no issues whatsoever. I am guessing that Farish just use stronger motors?
Anyway, now I just need one of the five Rev 59's I've pre-ordered to pull them......
Think I might need to work some more overtime!
Would be useful to have some shorter magnetic couplings, the Elite's are good but the gap between wagons is exaggerated because of the lack of buffers - nobody's fault of course, but I look forward to some closer couplings!
Simon
My final 5 (we'll see) have now been delivered but as I'm away from home I won't get to try them until the weekend. I have been playing with some loads for them but am not completely happy with those just yet. Has anyone got/found any pictures of them fully loaded? Preferably looking down into them.
Quote from: SGregory on November 16, 2022, 07:12:56 PM
So I now have 18 running, haulage wise I've tried them with a couple of different Dapol 56's, which struggled a little despite being a hefty model and I've also tried them with one of my 60's - which as expected romps along with no issues whatsoever. I am guessing that Farish just use stronger motors?
It's more about weight. The 60 is heavy. The 56 less so. A Dapol 66 weighs about 8g so doesn't stand a chance.
Dapol 66 with 13 wagons on around 25% power from a Vortrak. I'll try with 15+ (20 if my replacements are ok) this weekend and don't envisage there being a problem :stop:
Quote from: njee20 on November 16, 2022, 10:32:52 PM
It's more about weight. The 60 is heavy. The 56 less so. A Dapol 66 weighs about 8g so doesn't stand a chance.
Good luck with the new 60's they are about 15g lighter than the old ones, and motor does not seem as powerful.
Quote from: Trainfish on November 16, 2022, 08:38:42 PM
. Has anyone got/found any pictures of them fully loaded? Preferably looking down into them.
A quick Flickr search brings up these. This first one is to the coarser end of what gets loaded, you'll get anything between this and dust (basically sand).
https://flic.kr/p/2n85V4i
Further away but shows the load profile
https://flic.kr/p/2ntJRnD
Quite a typical load.
https://flic.kr/p/9VFJTJ
They can be rather well loaded, this one is quite extreme!
https://flic.kr/p/2jBBo3r
The stone loaded at Merehead into these wagons can often have an orange / pinky tint, and is a distinctive part of the wagon weathering colour.
Jo
With these additions I will have a growing fleet of hoppers, none of which are loaded atm.
I am always in two minds. If I load some then I will want to represent unloaded traffic going the other way, which obviously gets expensive!
This is why I am pondering how to make any loads removable.
If somebody has a good method to achieve this on these or any other wagons, I would be interested.
Skyline2uk
Quote from: Trainfish on November 16, 2022, 10:54:06 PM
Dapol 66 with 13 wagons on around 25% power from a Vortrak. I'll try with 15+ (20 if my replacements are ok) this weekend and don't envisage there being a problem :stop:
I should add context then. There have broadly been 3 generations of Dapol 66; the non-DCC ready ones, 6-pin fitted ones and Next-18 ones. There's been various arrangements of PCB and lighting within the 2nd gen. Each one has got successively lighter, due to more and more plastic in the chassis. The newest ones weigh (IIRC) 68g, and haulage is very poor. Not helped by only being driven on the outer axles of the bogies. No idea if that's a gen-1 (which were noisy, but had good haulage) or a gen-2. It's not a 3, because they've not done a standard Freightliner livery one. I didn't put all of that because it's entirely tangential to the discussion. But I'd easily summarised as "the haulage on Dapol 66s is poor". I did a video years ago testing 5 of each of Farish and Dapol 66s, and unequivocally the Dapol ones were worse, slipping to a halt with 36 PCAs, whilst the Farish ones all managed fine. As long as it works for you then great, but for anyone with a choice, if they value haulage power I'd get the Farish one all day long.
Quote from: Graham on November 17, 2022, 02:37:27 AM
Quote from: njee20 on November 16, 2022, 10:32:52 PM
It's more about weight. The 60 is heavy. The 56 less so. A Dapol 66 weighs about 8g so doesn't stand a chance.
Good luck with the new 60's they are about 15g lighter than the old ones, and motor does not seem as powerful.
I'd noticed how much of the chassis has been removed to fit in the new PCB and speaker, I'm waiting on a sound fitted one. That's a shame.
Quote from: Trainfish on November 16, 2022, 08:38:42 PM
My final 5 (we'll see) have now been delivered but as I'm away from home I won't get to try them until the weekend. I have been playing with some loads for them but am not completely happy with those just yet. Has anyone got/found any pictures of them fully loaded? Preferably looking down into them.
Ok so even after receiving an email from my supplier which said "Dear John, I have checked them all over myself personally, I can confirm that all of them are intact and there is no damage too them at all. Regards, XXXX" guess what? 1 is clearly damaged without even taking it out of the box. The other 4 look ok but I will add the washers at the weekend and see how they look and perform in a rake of 19 for now. Meanwhile I've sent him the link to the Specsavers website so he can book an appointment.
This was before opening the box
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-181122012542-1277341272.jpeg)
Even the inter-wagon coupling for the other end is broken. I'm not convinced that some returned wagons aren't being sent out again to be honest.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-181122012542-1277341961.jpeg)
Quote from: steadfast on November 17, 2022, 05:48:08 AM
Quote from: Trainfish on November 16, 2022, 08:38:42 PM
. Has anyone got/found any pictures of them fully loaded? Preferably looking down into them.
A quick Flickr search brings up these. This first one is to the coarser end of what gets loaded, you'll get anything between this and dust (basically sand).
https://flic.kr/p/2n85V4i
Further away but shows the load profile
https://flic.kr/p/2ntJRnD
Quite a typical load.
https://flic.kr/p/9VFJTJ
They can be rather well loaded, this one is quite extreme!
https://flic.kr/p/2jBBo3r
The stone loaded at Merehead into these wagons can often have an orange / pinky tint, and is a distinctive part of the wagon weathering colour.
Jo
Thanks Jo @steadfast (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=9393) I have no idea why I didn't find those myself. I don't think I'll be going for a load as in the last picture but possibly the others. Currently I have made a few level loads and will try them in the wagons at the weekend to see how they look. If I don't like them then I have a plan for some 'unlevel' loads and may even get around to making those at the weekend too. Thanks again for the pictures :thumbsup:
Quote from: Skyline2uk on November 17, 2022, 08:43:41 AM
With these additions I will have a growing fleet of hoppers, none of which are loaded atm.
I am always in two minds. If I load some then I will want to represent unloaded traffic going the other way, which obviously gets expensive!
This is why I am pondering how to make any loads removable.
If somebody has a good method to achieve this on these or any other wagons, I would be interested.
Skyline2uk
Go for it Adam, it's not as if you've got a young family and a mortgage to pay out for each month is it? Oh :doh:
I'll get back to you regarding removable loads when I've tried mine. What makes them slightly awkward is the shape of the sides of the wagons at the top but I'm hopeful I can achieve it. Yes, they will be removeable but whether I actually do remove the loads at any point is another matter.
Note: I would probably have thought twice about buying these had I had either a young family or a mortgage. Thankfully I've never had the former and I don't have the latter these days either having paid it off about this time last year :)
In light of the comments I've read about these wagons here and elsewhere, I've cancelled my (trunked) order for twenty completely. I'll be spending the money on a rake of Revolution PTAs instead. I have quite a lot of nice Dapol stock but these just seem far too much trouble. Thanks to everyone for posting their honest comments about these wagons.
QuoteGo for it Adam, it's not as if you've got a young family and a mortgage to pay out for each month is it? Oh :doh:
I'll get back to you regarding removable loads when I've tried mine. What makes them slightly awkward is the shape of the sides of the wagons at the top but I'm hopeful I can achieve it. Yes, they will be removeable but whether I actually do remove the loads at any point is another matter.
Note: I would probably have thought twice about buying these had I had either a young family or a mortgage. Thankfully I've never had the former and I don't have the latter these days either having paid it off about this time last year :)
Smug much ;) :D :smiley-laughing:
Should state that these wagons are a Christmas present from multiple members of said young (and in case of some of them, not so young) family.
I am allowed to test for the defects listed only and then they go "under the tree".
Skyline2uk
I am going to a wedding next week and I have checked that the venue allows confetti. Won't have to buy any, just vacuum up the bits falling off my 10 X JHAs, and that will provide plenty.
Hattons are now selling the Dapol Yeoman hopper inners with the almost unrepairable pre-broken couplings and missing detail in their pre-owned section for between £24 - £30 a wagon.
They have very good boxes! Hattons brand new price is £36.68
Bob
What is more disturbing, is that if they are selling the returned wagons, it would suggest that they can't send them back to Dapol for replacement!
Quote from: Trainfish on November 18, 2022, 01:29:34 AM
Ok so even after receiving an email from my supplier which said "Dear John, I have checked them all over myself personally, I can confirm that all of them are intact and there is no damage too them at all. Regards, XXXX" guess what? 1 is clearly damaged without even taking it out of the box.
And the response today after my email explaining that I was less than pleased that a month after spending £679 I still don't have a full 20 wagon rake was "I am sorry that the wagon has arrived with problems. We can assure you that the wagons were inspected meticulously before they were dispatched, which
includes them being taken out of the packaging to check the couplings and the housing to ensure there is no chance of them being damaged in transit.
I shall pass your details to my colleague in the office and get another label set out you.
We shall get a replacment throughly tested and inspected, prior to dispatch upon reciept of the faulty item."
So if they have done that to
ensure they cannot be damaged in transit then what has happened to it Mr Supplier? I certainly haven't broken it so it must have been Mr Nobody who used to break stuff when I was younger. No, I think Mr Supplier is Mr Supp
liar in this case because there's no way the inter wagon coupler would just break and half of it not even be in the box. If the next replacement is damaged then I may have to start getting angry and name him/them :goggleeyes:
These should not be returned wagons but wagons that buyers have sold back to Hattons rather than returned for refunds.
I didn't suggest Hattons were reselling broken goods.
Bob
Why would anyone be selling them back to Hatton's though?! They've not been out long enough that you could just return them under the CRA. I'll eat my hat if that's not broken ones! Very odd.
I see more appeared yesterday in their pre-owned section and all those listed say either missing detail or 'loose' coupling. I can't believe people have already sold them on (unless they don't understand that they could return them as faulty) so I would guess they are selling the returns for some reason.
Perhaps they will make money selling them as seconds rather than returning them to Dapol as some money from second hand sales is better than none. Trouble is if that is the case is it hiding the extent of the problems from Dapol who could turn around and say very few had been returned to them.
Or this could be Dapol saying "We know there is a problem here. Don't send them back to us as we'll just bin them. We'll send the replacements anyway and you can do whatever you want with the broken ones".
I'm up to 19 of these wagons now with hopefully the last 1 being returned on Monday and replaced to make it 20. I've also been playing around with loads and will put more details on those on my own layout thread in the next 20 minutes or so but here's my rake of 19 being hauled by a Dapol class 58 on probably around 30% full power.
And from a distance which shows the full rake in 1 shot
For those who don't follow my layout thread, and there are many reasons why that may be the case, here are a few pictures of my efforts to add a load to these wagons. The plan was to make sure that no 2 loads are the same. I think I achieved that:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-221122013028-1278671409.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-221122013027-1278661621.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-221122013025-1278521111.jpeg)
And some older 50 ton Farish wagons 'filled' using the same method:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-221122013025-1278521944.jpeg)
They look good to me. Back in the late 1980s/90s these trains were normally loaded on the move. The wagon was tare weighed, the load calculated, and distributed from a hopper onto a belt which was above the centre line of the wagon. From being in the loading control room a few times at ARC Whatley (not Yeoman's at Merehead), it was apparent that the fine tuning by the operator resulted in very similar looking loads for every wagon in the train, but noticeable differences between one operator and another. Some would have an even load along the length like yours, others would have a more peaked load at the end of the wagon loaded first and a small trough at the end loaded last. From memory the actual tare weights and the painted tares were very similar, even with box wagons, indicating the skill of the grab operator emptying a box wagon. The big shunters used on the loading tracks had very even slow speed control. An operator letting stone fall outside the hopper was not popular, even where the brake gear had a protective shedding plate. The process was quite mesmerising.
Mine are probably a little less even than they appear in the pictures. However, maybe I will create a few peaks and troughs in the next batch. Due to the shape of the wagon and the fact that I want these to be removable, I can't make them too high or I will never get them into the wagon if you see what I mean.
Thanks for the info.
Hi All,
After a lot of fettling my rake now run beautifully.
Washers from my local Maxwell store fitted and a few axle holes reamed but the brakes still caused problems on corners. So, I removed all the brakes. They simply clip out of the bogie frames and the wagons run really well as a result. Now to weather them and add loads.
Cheers,
Ged.
I haven't needed to remove the brakes but will bear it in mind if I ever feel the need to. I have been making loads for mine though. Apologies if any of these pictures have appeared here before but my first attempt at a load was too flat:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-201122121217-127793252.jpeg)
The next attempt was where I realised that the ends needed to have angles filed/sanded into them underneath as the ends appeared square and there was a gap at each end (best seen in the wagon on the right):
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/127/262-221122013027-1278661621.jpeg)
I've been busy today and have hopefully learned from past mistakes by making a few more which are neither flat nor have square ends:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/128/262-041222234818-1282302223.jpeg)
These should be ok but I won't be able to try them until next weekend or if I get home early tomorrow I may be able to fit a few and I'll post the results here :thumbsup:
Right
Well that's me arrived rather late to the party!
Got round to unboxing and fettling my 10 of these, and thanks to this forum I knew exactly what to expect.
The only thing I had in my favour was that because my model shop of choice had inspected each one before dispatch, no couplings were broken.
However, 4 steps had become detached (I admit one was my fault not understanding were to hold when removing the bogies). I managed to glue them all back on, even the one I thought the carpet monster had had, but turned up underneath a wagon body.
I also repaired 1x lashing hook.
I installed some washers (found by SWMBO in that orange DIY shop, useful) and performance is acceptable now. Certainly a Dapol 56 can manage them with no drama.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/129/1081-060123221404.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=129018)
I also found I can couple the middle wagons whilst on the track. However I dislike the force needed and will invest in suitable Hunt magnetic ones if the rumoured development is indeed underway.
I love how these look, and can't wait to have a Revolution 59 on the front, but I agree these shouldn't be regarded as "beginners" wagons....
Skyline2uk
Good news!!!
West Hill Wagons have released their Magnetic COuplings for the Dapol O&K wagons:
https://westhillwagonworks.co.uk/hunt-couplings-c-2/hunt-couplings-elite-n-gauge-c-23/hunt-couplings-elite-coupling-pack-for-o-k-dapol-jha-hopper-wagons-n-gauge-p-454
Get your wallets out chaps & chapesses :D :D
Regards
Neal.
thanks neal
I've ordered some
still feeling fed up with dapol about these wagons but i'll fit these couplings and then try again to fettle the wagons to improve running
got to be ready for the arrival of revolution class 59s
tim
Hi Tim,
I'm about to order some as well.
My wagons now run beautifully as I have inserted thin washers in the bogies and removed all the brakes.
They simply pull out easily. They are so small I could hardly see them anyway.
Cheers,
Ged.
Good news unless you have a rake of 20. It means I have to buy 3 packs and use just 1 from the 3rd pack :*(
I suppose the others/spares could be used in the future on something else.
Quote from: Trainfish on January 27, 2023, 08:38:30 PM
Good news unless you have a rake of 20. It means I have to buy 3 packs and use just 1 from the 3rd pack :*(
I suppose the others/spares could be used in the future on something else.
Is that because you have 2 outers plus 18 inners? As such the included pair of couplings for the outers are surplus in two packs John?
Skyline2uk
Indeed they are surplus. I will be able to use them elsewhere though as they look like standard magnetic couplers. I was going to send an email to WWW (it's already written and in my outbox) to see if they would swap them out but I may just order 3 packs anyway. As I say, I should be able to use the spares somewhere else as basically they look like ultra short magnetic couplers.
another alternative would be to have the rake as 2 sets of 10, which would solve the issue of buying a 3rd pack.
Just a thought!
With a big gap in the middle with no buffers? :goggleeyes: I'll order 3 :thumbsup:
NGS members may be interested my article about the real things and how they're operated is in the current journal, 1/23.
Jo
Will have a look once the journal finds its way down under.
Quote from: Trainfish on January 28, 2023, 12:51:40 PM
With a big gap in the middle with no buffers? :goggleeyes: I'll order 3 :thumbsup:
Many thanks to @ Trainfish for letting me have 3 pairs of his surplus inner couplings free of charge :thumbsup:
Geoff
There is a lot of very good and useful here. However, I cannot see anywhere how to remove the bogies.
I am sure holding a wagon in one hand, whilst gently shaking it, will not cause the bogie to drop into my other hand.
Does the bogie simply pull out of the chassis, or does it need to be prised away with a tool ? Or is there some dismantling first, that I should know about ?
Any help with this will be appreciated.
The bogies just pull out, do not insert anything between them and the chassis to lever them out, you may damage the spring for the coupling.
Don't ask how I know that! What are you trying to do as I have stripped several to replace the coupling arms and may be able to help you?
Geoff
Thank you.
I just want put the washers in between the chassis and the bogies, as has been described here earlier.
They are probably the easiest bogies I have ever pulled out. No tools required and they come out very very easily.
Quote from: Trainfish on June 29, 2023, 09:16:37 PM
They are probably the easiest bogies I have ever pulled out. No tools required and they come out very very easily.
What he said, plus be careful where you hold the body as those tiny yellow anchor points love to come off.
Don't want to be glueing anymore of those on...
Skyline2uk