Recent survey revealed that July's new car production was the worst since 1956. Although there are a number of factors being blamed for the slowdown including the current global chip shortage and the so-called 'pingdemic', where workers who may have had close contact with Covid cases had to self-isolate.
Production for the UK market declined by 38.7% to 8,233, whilst the number of vehicles built for export also fell to 45,205, a drop of 37.4%. BUT! Second hand car sales have rocketed.
Enter the Governments introduction of E10 fuel....... Blended with Ethanol and other additives this fuel is probably not going to be good for older engines up to around 2002 and probably also runs the risk of engine damage.
Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means that it absorbs water from the atmosphere, which can lead to condensation in fuel tanks, fuel lines and carburettors and cause corrosion in brass, copper, lead, tin and zinc components.
Ethanol is also a solvent it can eat through rubber, plastic and fibreglass, so hoses and seals are likely to perish more quickly because of the higher concentration of ethanol in E10.
It gets better!
The Department for Transport tests identified degradation to fuel hoses and seals, blocked fuel filters, damaged fuel pumps, corroded carbs, blocked injectors and corrosion in fuel tanks. Rubber is particularly affected.
So could E10 be the Governments answer to removing older cars off the road and boosting new car sales? :worried:
No.
Quote from: RailGooner on September 02, 2021, 07:48:43 PM
No.
I was going to say that ;D
Based on the insane second hand market it's a wonder people aren't buying new!
I can't see it making a massive difference, but it'll be interesting. The biggest losers are probably those with classic cars who would notice. I suspect most 20 year old 'bangers' still driving around are probably riddled with issues and wouldn't notice a few new ones caused by ethanol induced failure. Despite the scaremongering I can't see petrol tanks and fuel hoses spontaneously failing. The classic car owners will perhaps just have to run super unleaded.
Winter months will definitely boost battery sales as Ethanol is bad for cold starting, it doesn't burn as quick as petrol. :)
My car is a Diesel which I always run on branded fuel not supermarket muck. The 2019 bike should be OK and has a factory applied sticker confirming this. The 1978 bike will get super unleaded which is dearer but it doesn't do a lot of miles and I no longer have to pay road tax. I will fill the newer bike with super when I stop using it over the winter. I certainly won't be vehicle shopping because of E10.
I guess the writing was on the wall as E10 has been in Europe for quite a while now. So I guess as most of us drive vehicles that were built in Europe its not going to be no big deal.
As for dirty diesels I cant see there being too much interference with the fuel mix as a lot of it now is blended bio!
Quote from: Ali Smith on September 02, 2021, 08:16:19 PM
My car is a Diesel which I always run on branded fuel not supermarket muck.
I didn't know anyone still thought this was a thing!
I read earlier today that diesel is not part of the E10 "upgrade" of fuels in the UK and will, for now at least, stay as is. Is this correct?
Yep
My daily is a 2007 fiesta diesel--had it nearly 4 years--most reliable car ive ever had. Done 10,000 miles in that time. It aint going anywhere.
My posing car is a 2003 MG TF..more show than go..that will get super unleaded as i dont fancy it being out of use all winter with that new stuff in it.
Quote from: daffy on September 02, 2021, 09:07:24 PM
I read earlier today that diesel is not part of the E10 "upgrade" of fuels in the UK and will, for now at least, stay as is. Is this correct?
Diesels would not run very well on E10 in fact not at all, its basically unleaded fuel with 10% Ethanol which is grain alcohol.
I do wonder if people will actually buy more Super Unleaded, and if it'll therefore become more widely available. 2 of my three nearest petrol stations don't sell it. I suspect there may be a short term uptick and then people will just go back to what they've always done. I have been trying to put super in mine lately, but it is price dependent, 151.9p yesterday... sod that, it got normal unleaded!
Thanks, both, for confirming what I read/thought was the case. :thumbsup: I shall continue driving my diesel at 60+mpg then, with no thoughts of going to other fuels. Well, not until I've printed some more money to supplement my pension.
Quote from: daffy on September 02, 2021, 09:45:21 PM
Thanks, both, for confirming what I read/thought was the case. :thumbsup: I shall continue driving my diesel at 60+mpg then, with no thoughts of going to other fuels. Well, not until I've printed some more money to supplement my pension.
Or you could always run the gauntlet and put a bit of cherry in it, would be a lot cheaper. Well that is until you get dipped! :)
E10 has been on some forecourts in this area for a while now. I've tried it for a month, and it significantly reduced my fuel economy from around 52-3 mpg on E5 regular unleaded to 46-47 mpg at motorway cruising speeds. (This is a 2017 Vauxhall Astra Sport Tourer, 150bhp 1.4 turbo) The same car does c55mpg on 98 octane Super unleaded.
So, for me the change to E10 will actually encourage me to switch to use Super. Previously it gave marginly better economy, but not sufficient to offset the extra 8-10 pence per litre. With the reduced efficiency on E10, the difference in cost per mile becomes less than 0.5p, so with the (potential) detrimental effect on the service life of other components, the numbers work in favour of Super.
Yes I notice a marginal improvement in economy on super too, and at the supermarkets it's worth doing, as they tend to cap the price difference, but Esso yesterday was 15p/litre different, which is excessive for me. It takes me from ~32mpg to ~34, so the price differential has to be within 10% to offset it!
Like I say, I do wonder if people will start changing to super, and then drift back. Be very interesting to see. Ultimately E10 has been around a while now.
Here in the US > 95% of the gas (petrol) sold is E10 and has been for years.
Except for very specific instances I don't see that this will be an issue.
Regards,
John P
We've had E10 for ages here, too. My little 2015 Toyota Corolla uses it, and I get great fuel economy. Love it!
Of course, in the current lockdown it's even better, as the car ain't going anywhere :D
As mentioned in the first post ethanol is hygroscopic, for small engines just pour your e10 into a clear container, add a litre of water with dye added, shake and leave to settle, that should leave you with all the water/ ethanol in the bottom and neat unleaded ready to siphon from the top.
Ok, useless for car engines but handy for petrol lawnmowers and the like.
So how much do you save doing that, then? Seems a lot of fiddle faddling around for a lawnmower! :hmmm:
You 'aven't seen 'is lawn mower!
:goggleeyes:
25 years ago I was trained and worked with Pierburg Carburettors. What many people don't know is when the air fuel ratio of petrol is at 14.7:1 it has more detonation than TNT or Dynamite! So interfering and blending additives to it will lower is potency.
What really surprises me about all this carbon emissions propaganda relating to the petrol engine, not one manufacturer has bothered to advance the water injection technology. Its amazing how water can advance ignition, increases power and economy also making the engine run cooler. Having said that this technology is however used for some turbos.
The picture is very confusing.
While I was away in Shropshire I filled up my 2020 Focus in Tesco with what was advertised as E10. While I noticed no change in performance, my fuel economy computer went up from 49mpg to 58mpg! Since coming home it has settled at 55mpg. I've not done any actual mileage/consumption tests but I may do.
My wife's 2013 Fiesta is still sitting at 45mpg but she has a lead foot and it's only used for local stuff.
I am worried about my 1990 Goldwing but for now I'll just move up to Super.
Quote from: GrahamB on September 03, 2021, 08:21:10 AM
I am worried about my 1990 Goldwing but for now I'll just move up to Super.
Nice bike to ride Graham, loved the smooth acceleration from those machines :thumbsup: 8)
Quote from: Mr Sprue on September 03, 2021, 08:25:05 AM
Quote from: GrahamB on September 03, 2021, 08:21:10 AM
I am worried about my 1990 Goldwing but for now I'll just move up to Super.
Nice bike to ride Graham, loved the smooth acceleration from those machines :thumbsup: 8)
Thank you. I've owned it since 2006. 108,000 miles and still as good as new. Sadly I don't do long distance rides anymore but I'm loathe to move it on.
On the BBC news yesterday they said moving to E10 would be equivalent to removing 350,000 cars (equal to all the cars in Yorkshire) from our roads emissions wise.
Now then, living in Lancashire as I do, maybe you can guess what my thinking was >:D :-X
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 03, 2021, 10:22:00 AM
On the BBC news yesterday they said moving to E10 would be equivalent to removing 350,000 cars (equal to all the cars in Yorkshire) from our roads emissions wise.
Now then, living in Lancashire as I do, maybe you can guess what my thinking was >:D :-X
Corr wouldn't that just be absolute bliss! If that was to happen I would definitely ride two wheels again with all those cars out the way. be like riding on the roads when England are playing! 8)
Been dribbling over this sweetie the last couple of months: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/425539498668014/?ref= (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/425539498668014/?ref=) I am Sooo tempted! :drool: Would have to change that exhaust though. :hmmm:
That's a beaut, Dave :heart2:
E10 definitely off the menu, methinks :hmmm:
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 03, 2021, 10:22:00 AM
On the BBC news yesterday they said moving to E10 would be equivalent to removing 350,000 cars (equal to all the cars in Yorkshire) from our roads emissions wise.
Now then, living in Lancashire as I do, maybe you can guess what my thinking was >:D :-X
E (ba 'eck) 10?
:smiley-laughing:
Quote from: chrism on September 03, 2021, 10:47:43 AM
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 03, 2021, 10:22:00 AM
On the BBC news yesterday they said moving to E10 would be equivalent to removing 350,000 cars (equal to all the cars in Yorkshire) from our roads emissions wise.
Now then, living in Lancashire as I do, maybe you can guess what my thinking was >:D :-X
E (ba 'eck) 10?
:smiley-laughing:
I did ask the guy in Tesco yesterday "Have you E10?" and he said "I'm on a late dinner break"
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 03, 2021, 11:01:01 AM
Quote from: chrism on September 03, 2021, 10:47:43 AM
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 03, 2021, 10:22:00 AM
On the BBC news yesterday they said moving to E10 would be equivalent to removing 350,000 cars (equal to all the cars in Yorkshire) from our roads emissions wise.
Now then, living in Lancashire as I do, maybe you can guess what my thinking was >:D :-X
E (ba 'eck) 10?
:smiley-laughing:
I did ask the guy in Tesco yesterday "Have you E10?" and he said "I'm on a late dinner break"
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/80/5604-290719200338.gif)
Those of us with long memories will feel a sense of deja vu. Going back to c.1990 when lead was removed from petrol, there were all sorts of dire warnings about what would happen if you ran certain makes on unleaded. My car in those days was a Citroen Visa. I ignored the warnings and it ran happily on unleaded for years. Interestingly, there was a bit in the newspaper a few days ago which said that the last country in the world, Algeria, I think, had just stopped selling leaded. This time round it may be different, but it will be interesting to check my fuel consumption.
Cheers,
Chris
4-star was only withdrawn in 2000, with "LRP" following a few years later. I have to say I agree though, and that's what my predictions that any alternative behaviour being temporary is based on! It's a bit "Y2K bug" as well. Perhaps I'll eat my words and there'll be scores of 20 year old cars with split petrol tanks up and down the land!
As 10% ethanol = 20% proof, and they're making it more apparent that there is ethanol in it; how long before the deaths from drinking the stuff start to be reported?
I seem to recall reports of people going for the hand gel in hospitals because of the alcohol content. It's just a matter of time.
having previously having moved from petrol to diesel on 'government advice', and then been advised I am destroying, apparently single handedly, the world, I will most certainly ignore any further advice from these idiots.
my diesel car should see me out, fingers crossed, till I am no longer fit to drive.
electric, no thanks, I'm not that stupid.
either nuclear power stations, or [nimby] windfarms to produce the leccie to charge it.
again, I'll be accused of destroying the planet.
not playing any more.
it's like people smoking, govt want them to stop, but more than happy to take the billions of £ in tax from them.
when they start driving leccie cars, I might take notice, but I see they are still running round in petrol [V8 probably with the armour plate] cars while telling us all off.
back to the naughty step, been there so long now it's almost home !
SWMBOs car , my Motor scooter and lawnmower are all E10 compatible so that's no problem. The Landrover and motorboat are diesel so no problem there either.
Fuel consumption will be a problem , The wife's KIA has a tiny tank as it is (30L) and when we do Edinburgh from Norfolk it takes careful planning not to be stung by Motorway petrol prices, reduced mileage make it even more difficult..
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 03, 2021, 10:47:09 AM
That's a beaut, Dave :heart2:
E10 definitely off the menu, methinks :hmmm:
I guess it would have to run on black market leaded petrol Mick. The other alternative is to buy a two stroke which would run quite happily on E10. Now that would put the cat amongst the pigeons regarding all this carbon footprint thingy! :D BTY would have to be R stuff in the fuel mix :)
If your into your classic bikes Mick watch this..... There's all sorts in the mix even aermacchi's! Lets hope E10 doesn't erode these beauties! :worried: