I'd like to add at some time a Farish "class 4" diesel to my collection. I am roughly going with early/mid 1960's so a green BR livery is essential, therefore my choices are:
Class 40. Looks good, but will need a custom DCC installation, and will the 4 wheel bogies handle 1st/2nd rad curves and setrack points.
Class 44/45/46. same issues above, but I like the "named " ones you can get.
Class 47. My class 37 Co-Co runs perfectly on my layout, so it should handle the tight curves/points. It has a 6 pin DCC socket, minimising the installation cost. However, I,ve bought some old Ian Allen 1960,s train annuals, and although built from 1963(?) they dont seem to have been common until the end of the decade, whereas 40's and the 44/45/46 seem to be pictured throughout the period.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!!!
Ah - I wasn't sure from your first post whether you meant the Class 04 or (as in my case) the Type 4's.
Being DC I can't answer your questions on chipping/set track points, but can tell you I have no issues with Type 4's on my test oval which has 1st radius curves. My main layout is going to have much larger radius curves as the 8 axle diesels don't look particularly good on 1st radius due to the bogie/buffer/whole front set up really.
You shouldn't have any issues with the 6 axle locos - I have 3 Brush Type 4's, a Brush Type 2, 2 x Westerns and an EE Type 3 with no running issues at all. With 4 axle locos it's a breeze.
Hope this helps
Quote from: apsheehan on May 02, 2012, 12:57:05 PM
I'd like to add at some time a Farish "class 4" diesel to my collection. I am roughly going with early/mid 1960's so a green BR livery is essential, therefore my choices are:
Class 40. Looks good, but will need a custom DCC installation, and will the 4 wheel bogies handle 1st/2nd rad curves and setrack points.
Class 44/45/46. same issues above, but I like the "named " ones you can get.
Class 47. My class 37 Co-Co runs perfectly on my layout, so it should handle the tight curves/points. It has a 6 pin DCC socket, minimising the installation cost. However, I,ve bought some old Ian Allen 1960,s train annuals, and although built from 1963(?) they dont seem to have been common until the end of the decade, whereas 40's and the 44/45/46 seem to be pictured throughout the period.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!!!
Class 40 was one of the first mainline diesels. Heavy and underpowered by later standards but very reliable. So reliable in fact that the later ones got the same 2000hp engine rather than an offered upgrade. Initially they hauled all sorts of stuff but over time kept getting cascaded as they were always a "reliable second choice" and in BR blue days often were reduced to holiday traffic, drags during overhead repair work and the like. They happily run around 9" curves. It's an older model so the detail isn't so great. DCC does involve soldering wires, and the Poole era one involves more complicated work.
Class 44 was the prototype to 45/46 - they fairly rapidly got cascaded down to freight work around Toton, while the 45/46 served on cross country routes, the midland mainline and other places for a very long time including many express passenger turns. They are a kind of half way model. It's a modern standard body but without lights and DCC socket. Not hard to convert but does need a bit of soldering. Again they are happy on R1 curves. In fact the bogies are somewhat overwide to the point people have narrowed them and they still run around R1 curves 8)
Class 47 was a bit later on, and they spent the first few years failing all over the place (hence their 'Duff' nickname). They were eventually downrated from 2750hp to 2580hp or so and made reliable and from then on became the default BR diesel with 512 of the things built. The current 47s have DCC sockets, lights and the works.
There are folks who will do DCC conversions so if you are really not sure about chipping them thats always an option.
Might be worth considering the Class 42 Warships unless you are specifically modelling an area beyond the former GWR (can't think why anyone would want to do that ;)). Good runners, well detailed body (apart from some overscale panel grooves) and DCC ready. Plus one of the more attractive early diesels IMHO.
Thanks for all the advice.
My preference would be for the Class 40 or 44/45/46, and I am reassured about about them running well on a small layout. I have seen them for sale with DCC added so that shouldn't be a problem.
The Class 42 suggestion is a right curveball! it looks great and I would guess that there were places in the west Midlands where Western region and the rest of BR's early stock mixed. It looks like it only worked passenger trains though.
Damm might have to buy both!!
Quote from: apsheehan on May 02, 2012, 04:16:45 PM
The Class 42 suggestion is a right curveball! it looks great and I would guess that there were places in the west Midlands where Western region and the rest of BR's early stock mixed. It looks like it only worked passenger trains though.
Early on the Warships tended to be priotised to express passenger workings. However once the class 52 Westerns started to arrive in the early 60s, the Warships quickly moved onto a wider variety of workings. You are right that they could be seen in the west midlands, they frequently hauled inter-regional trains and often worked as far as New street before being swapped for something else.
Between 67 and 69, a handful of Warships were allocated Bescot depot and worked various trains including clayliners so there is some scope for freight work too. Here is D838 Rapid at Birmingham New Street, 5-10-67
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2148/2537813503_ef9b9696f1_o.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2148/2537813503_ef9b9696f1_o.jpg)
Come to think of it, the class 52 Westerns are also Type 4 so would fit your bill. Probably worth waiting for the new Dapol one as the price as is likely to be not much higher than the current Farish one and will be DCC ready and (hopefully) more detailed.
Quote from: apsheehan on May 02, 2012, 04:16:45 PM
The Class 42 suggestion is a right curveball! it looks great and I would guess that there were places in the west Midlands where Western region and the rest of BR's early stock mixed. It looks like it only worked passenger trains though.
They did get there now and then but the WR steam locos were primarily used for that service, and then the mayhem during electrification occurred, and then Beeching wrecked the rest and only now with the new Chiltern service is it all coming back into form.
Quote from: EtchedPixels on May 02, 2012, 04:58:48 PM
Quote from: apsheehan on May 02, 2012, 04:16:45 PM
The Class 42 suggestion is a right curveball! it looks great and I would guess that there were places in the west Midlands where Western region and the rest of BR's early stock mixed. It looks like it only worked passenger trains though.
They did get there now and then but the WR steam locos were primarily used for that service, and then the mayhem during electrification occurred, and then Beeching wrecked the rest and only now with the new Chiltern service is it all coming back into form.
EP - you're probably an expert on Snow Hill by now, but didn't any reach there from Paddington ???
Quote from: newportnobby on May 02, 2012, 05:52:38 PM
They did get there now and then but the WR steam locos were primarily used for that service, and then the mayhem during electrification occurred, and then Beeching wrecked the rest and only now with the new Chiltern service is it all coming back into form.
EP - you're probably an expert on Snow Hill by now, but didn't any reach there from Paddington ???
[/quote]
As I said "now and then". The Warships were not quite powerful enough to handle a lot of the Snow Hill trains. They instead handled a lot of services in the South West including the well photographed runs of them in pairs on the crack expresses in the 1960s. They did appear on Birmingham routes somewhat more in the late 1960s but by then Snow Hill was a ghost of its former self and the services were running into New Street.
It's easy to forget that while steam has its performance problems (notably poor acceleration and power output at low speed due to the lack of variable gearing) the big GWR steam locos at speed were enormously powerful beasts and with a very very good power/weight ratio.
At least a Farish class 42 will be more reliable than the prototypes. At work the 800' and 833's were always said be union locos. One engine stopped the other stopped in sympathy. As apprentices calling them Warships resulted in a painful experience. It was a joy when the Sulzer's (class 47) replaced them as they were more reliable.
In the 60's the Westerns best locos were the 1000's and they frequently worked to the Birmingham area.
regards
Dodger
As far as the Farish models go, the 40 is an old tooling and chassis. It's a good model, but it's not up to modern standards, as you note yourself.
The Peaks are newer (2006) but suffer from an over wide buffer beam: a recent Railway Modeller article showed how to narrow it with some bogie frame surgery, if you don't mind chopping up your models a little.
The 47 is the newest and best of the bunch accuracy wise, provided you avoid the first batch which sat far too high on their bogies.
As others note you've also got a choice of class 42, which is again a newer model and quite good, as long as you're O.K with running WR traction!
Decision made, ive ordered a Class 42 "Magpie" & a chip for it. All the other options & suggestions are great, and over time I'll probably collect a 47 & peak, but at the moment the clincher was getting the loco for just £63 + p&p, so with the decoder it comes in at £20ish less than the others by the time you add dcc (47,s in green seem to be in short supply as well).
Thanks for the help folks.
i have a 45 and 46 - and they were chipped professionally for dcc and run nicely.
the bogies are a bit too wide but there aren't many visible curves on my layout so it's not noticable.
you can pick up 44/45/46 in green quite cheaply, but dcc fitting will cost a lot on top.
anyway class 42 is a good choice!
you could order a new dapol western as well...
tim