Come September the government is changing our petrol from type E5 to E10.
Problem is, some older vehicles may not be able to use the new type.
Check your vehicle(s) here............
https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol (https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol)
Well that's a helpful list.
Doesn't cope with a 1972 VW Type 2!!
Further explanation.............
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e10-petrol-explained (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e10-petrol-explained)
E10 has been almost ubiquitous here in the US for a long time (thank the political clout of the corn agribusiness). Main problems are:
Small 2-stroke engines (lawn equipment, older outboard motors and the like), which don't seem to like it,
Older engines, which may have a rubber component that is dissolved by the ethanol,
Any time you try to use aged petrol as the ethanol will have absorbed atmospheric moisture and separated out (that container in your garage, or the car you rarely use).
Sad to see this becoming a UK thing as there are many studies that show that the production of ethanol is still an energy sink in that you use more energy producing it than it provides as fuel.
Jon
Quote from: Newportnobby on June 23, 2021, 12:27:28 PM
Come September the government is changing our petrol from type E5 to E10.
Problem is, some older vehicles may not be able to use the new type.
Check your vehicle(s) here............
https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol (https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol)
just another way to try to force people to buy electric cars.
which will then no doubt suddenly attract road tax ie cash for the government.
I changed from a petrol vehicle some years ago because the government at the time said it was better than petrol, now of course I am single handedly destroying the world with my diesel vehicle.
if only they could make their minds up about these things.
Quote from: Newportnobby on June 23, 2021, 12:27:28 PM
Come September the government is changing our petrol from type E5 to E10.
Problem is, some older vehicles may not be able to use the new type.
Check your vehicle(s) here............
https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol (https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol)
as usual--the gov. list is useless--i run a rover mg, as do 1000's of others.
Quote from: port perran on June 23, 2021, 12:31:42 PM
Well that's a helpful list.
Doesn't cope with a 1972 VW Type 2!!
Doesn't that still want good old 4-star?
Or 5-star if you're anticipating a head wind :smiley-laughing:
So 95% of cars in the UK can use E10, and the rest can still get E5 at larger garages because Super Unleaded will still be E5.
Mountain out of a Molehill?
John P
Super Unleaded is up to 11.5p per litre more than premium though. And likely to increase when they have a captive market of millions. E5 is only guaranteed to remain available for a few years too - making it more difficult for people to retain old cars until they become classics.
I have to agree that the "but you can just use super unleaded" is flawed when it's the older cars that will need that, and the extra cost per tank is likely to be felt more acutely.
On the rare occasions I've put super unleaded in mine I've noticed zero difference too, that in a moderately 'performance orientated' car.
But then I'm not sure I'd take any advice about petrol from anyone in the US, with your 89 RON "premium" dishwater ;D
We've got a diesel.
And I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to follow US motoring wisdom.
Don't accelerate because it uses too much gas.
Wait in line to get cheap petrol even cheaper, sorry I meant to say queue up.
Make sure your vehicle has 6 cylinders or more because anything else is under powered.
Never forget that actually driving your car is not the most important thing to do while you are in it.
Complain about the price of gas and yet still insist on that 5.7L Hemi engine in the truck that you mainly use to drive to and from work!
God I love it here ;D
I must admit that when we were last in the UK it was a bit of a shock when it cost more to fill up the rental car that it did to rent it for a week.
John P
@jpendle (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3871) I get your point about many Americans expecting to carry out other tasks when they are at the wheel. My favourite was a driver in St. Petersburg. Fl. who was cheerfully having a very sudsy wet shave whilst cruising through the mid-morning traffic. By chance I rented a sports oriented car three years back which had the facility to run on just 4 cyclinders of its V8 engine, which did marginally slow the speed with which the fuel gauge moved rather quickly towards empty.
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41343.msg507560#msg507560 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41343.msg507560#msg507560)
Quote from: njee20 on June 23, 2021, 04:48:46 PM
But then I'm not sure I'd take any advice about petrol from anyone in the US, with your 89 RON "premium" dishwater ;D
You cannot get 89 RON in the US. I suspect you're confusing RON (what's posted in the UK and EU), MON (what's tested in the US) and AKI (what is labelled on the pump in the US, sometimes referred to as Pump Octane Number).
AKI or Anti-Knock Index is the average of Research Octane Number and Motor Octane Number. RON is always significantly above MON (by 8 to 12, but there's no simple link). 89 AKI is actually a little bit above 92 RON. Also, in most states 89 AKI is mid-grade and premium is either 92 AKI, 93 AKI or 94 AKI (equivalent to 96, 97 or 98 RON).
Most modern vehicles will try to compensate for different octanes (typically by changing spark timing or turbocharger/supercharger venting) and will indicate on the fuel filler door whether a particular AKI is either "recommended" (i.e. you're OK to go lower and probably won't notice) or "required" (go lower at your own peril). Going higher will only make the oil giants happy, not your car work better (unless you've stripped out or changed the computer chips).
Jon
The US use a different system to the rest of the world?! Surely not :D
Interesting though, thank you. I've given it precisely zero thought beyond noticing the octane numbers are a lot lower in the US, had no idea it was because the method of calculation was different.
I know there are lots of claims in the UK that 'premium' fuels contain additives to clean your engine and consequently return either better economy or performance. Indeed I did find (10 years ago) when I had a diesel the difference in price was offset by the increased economy. But I notice no difference on my current turbo petrol engine, which recommends 98 RON.
Quote from: njee20 on June 23, 2021, 07:30:07 PM
The US use a different system to the rest of the world?! Surely not :D
Not only that but it tells you on the pump the method used to calculate the Octane number.
(R+M)/2
I've been here 20 years and never thought to ask what the meant!
John P
Nope, I'd also never thought at all about what it meant. Just bigger number = better. I've also now gone down a rabbit hole of reading about premium fuel in my car, which has convinced me to try it again!
It doesn't matter what grade the petrol is, if you put it in a diesel, you'll get home considerably later than you intended :dunce:
I've only done it the once.
Quote from: Yet_Another on June 23, 2021, 10:45:29 PM
It doesn't matter what grade the petrol is, if you put it in a diesel, you'll get home considerably later than you intended :dunce:
You mean "It don't Ron Ron"
:doh:
John P
Quote from: njee20 on June 23, 2021, 08:45:30 PM
Nope, I'd also never thought at all about what it meant. Just bigger number = better. I've also now gone down a rabbit hole of reading about premium fuel in my car, which has convinced me to try it again!
If there is any truth to it having better/more additives and you're going to strip your engine down to take a look before and after it'd be an interesting experiment but unless you drive a car that is currently 'knocking' it's highly unlikely you'll notice any difference, especially with modern computer controlled engines.
Obviously forums tend to be full of extreme opinions, are they're split between "OMG throttle response was awful when I ran 95 RON", "power was down 10% when I used 95" and "I don't notice any difference". How clever the knock sensors are to actually respond to a pre-emptive knocking in response to a lower grade of fuel... no idea. I don't notice any knocking. But then I only fill the car up once a month, so I don't mind trying a few tanks of super unleaded to see if it makes any difference. Should get my son to nursery 3 seconds quicker ;D
Remember the days when you didn't need to buy expensive petrol to make your car go faster.
You could buy self-adhesive stripes from Halfords for a couple of quid, stick them to the bodywork and, Hey Presto !
Quote from: joe cassidy on June 24, 2021, 11:27:53 AM
Remember the days when you didn't need to buy expensive petrol to make your car go faster.
You could buy self-adhesive stripes from Halfords for a couple of quid, stick them to the bodywork and, Hey Presto !
Nowadays you just colour all the windows black, and slip a large coffee tin over the exhaust pipe.
Yeah go for it, if the detergents are better in higher grade fuels you'll give everything a clean out if nothing else.
But... car forums, especially tuner forums... :smiley-laughing:
Based on the comments you've put in your post I'd wager most of the people who notice a difference either have a sports car that requires a higher grade fuel anyway or more likely have cars that have had the ECU messed with a.k.a tuned so changing fuels might cause a performance decrease. If they're actually measuring a 10% decrease they've got some kind of tuners setup.
Having had the misfortune of driving behind many 'tuned' and modified cars as they stamp on the accelerator to race to the red light or traffic jam up ahead and smelling the uncombusted-petrol laden exhaust coming out the back I'd also wager they don't really care about proper tuning and pouring money down the drain ;) so I'd automatically take any "my performance increased/decreased" comments made with an unhealthy dose of salt.
Yes, that was entirely my rationale, much raising of eyebrows at some of the claims!
It's a Golf R FWIW, so moderately tuned, but not exactly super car status! Interestingly it seems to vary between individual vehicles whether the minimum fuel is 98 or 95 (itself the topic of much infighting on the forums it seems!), and I've not actually checked my own one! VW definitely recommend 98 though. I foresee zero difference.
Didn't we all used to put Redex in our tank? Yup. And did we notice any difference? Nope. For years I put unleaded petrol in a car that was only supposed to use leaded, and it seemed quite happy on it. I think car engines are more forgiving than the manufacturers try and make out.
Cheers,
Chris