Hi,
Just saw this on RMWEB.
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/165257-bachmann-announce-class-69-in-oo-and-n/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/165257-bachmann-announce-class-69-in-oo-and-n/)
This is a big deal for me as I think I may the first person to have posted this news on the forum :claphappy: :claphappy: :bounce:
John P
She does look pretty striking in her full livery.
Maybe never being a fan of the 56 isnt helping, I get the idea behind this conversion and its obviously a cheaper route to a class 66 then buying a class 66 but she doesnt half look like a dated loco doesn't she???
I'm now safely tucked up behind my parapet for all the flak from Grid fans :-[
It was exploiting a loophole rather than saving money. They were no longer allowed to buy 66s, due to their not meeting current emissions regs, so they bought some spare 66 engines and stuffed them into 56s!
I don't really like them. I do like 56s, but somehow these look wrong. I quite like the GBRF livery, but not with the flags on the side or the awful 'speed whiskers' on the front.
Quote from: njee20 on June 14, 2021, 10:25:43 PM
.. the awful 'speed whiskers' on the front.
How did I miss them?! Seriousy, I had to go back and look again before I noticed them. :sleep: It is late though.
Interesting that Class 66's don't meet current emissions rules but their engine's do ?.
NGM
Quote from: N_GaugeModeller on June 15, 2021, 07:35:08 AM
Interesting that Class 66's don't meet current emissions rules but their engine's do ?.
NGM
The engines
don't meet the emissions limits for a new loco, but are an upgrade and improvement on the original equipment in the 56...
Quote from: N_GaugeModeller on June 15, 2021, 07:35:08 AM
Interesting that Class 66's don't meet current emissions rules but their engine's do ?.
NGM
Yep, as PLD said, it's more nuanced than that. Article about it here (https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/exclusive-the-gb-railfreight-class-69-project-explained).
It's just a class 47 on steroids
The obvious question here is, with the chassis and commonality of parts, will this mean a competitor 56 will appear next to Dapol's model?
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: jpendle on June 14, 2021, 10:08:27 PM
Hi,
Just saw this on RMWEB.
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/165257-bachmann-announce-class-69-in-oo-and-n/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/165257-bachmann-announce-class-69-in-oo-and-n/)
This is a big deal for me as I think I may the first person to have posted this news on the forum :claphappy: :claphappy: :bounce:
John P
Bachmann do send me the announcements as well, but they always send them on the day that they're going out. As I work full time, it means that other forums get the news out there quicker..... Thanks for showing it though. :) :thumbsup:
A bit underwhelmed by the announcement I'm afraid, not one for me.
I am though curious to understand whether this loco is one to be one of the "announced during the quarter" models that is a matter of months away or if it is as yet a twinkle in Bachmann's eye that will arrive after I retire...
Roy
Quote from: Dr Al on June 15, 2021, 09:59:36 AM
The obvious question here is, with the chassis and commonality of parts, will this mean a competitor 56 will appear next to Dapol's model?
Cheers,
Alan
Obviously the chassis is common (mechanically speaking), and the bogies, but that's basically it. The body is -to all intents and purposes from a modelling perspective - new, so I'd be surprised to see a 56. I'm not sure the market has room for two 56s, given the Dapol model is good. It's an odd class given so many intra-class variations. Clearly Dapol will get their recently announced batch out before Farish manage to do anything, so I'd have thought that would be a huge waste of effort.
Quote from: Roy L S on June 15, 2021, 03:20:08 PM
A bit underwhelmed by the announcement I'm afraid, not one for me.
I am though curious to understand whether this loco is one to be one of the "announced during the quarter" models that is a matter of months away or if it is as yet a twinkle in Bachmann's eye that will arrive after I retire...
As per the press release, it's "out of cycle" and they've just tied the announcement to the launch of the real thing. Given it says they'll appear in the catalogues "in due course" I suspect it's a couple of years away.
Quote from: njee20 on June 15, 2021, 03:40:45 PM
Quote from: Dr Al on June 15, 2021, 09:59:36 AM
The obvious question here is, with the chassis and commonality of parts, will this mean a competitor 56 will appear next to Dapol's model?
Cheers,
Alan
I'd be surprised to see a 56. I'm not sure the market has room for two 56s, given the Dapol model is good. It's an odd class given so many intra-class variations. Clearly Dapol will get their recently announced batch out before Farish manage to do anything, so I'd have thought that would be a huge waste of effort.
I'm not so sure it won't lead to another 56, it might do.....
Let's be frank here the current Farish 56 is pants in all aspects, it's just a 47 with the intake filed off. The Dapol one is better, but still not quite there however it is fairly cheap when compared to equivalent Bachmann/Farish locos and for the price it is a good compromise. And we are all quite aware that if Bachmann/Farish do produce a new 56 it ain't going to be cheap, it will be more expensive than the Dapol version but as long as it's more accurate than the Dapol version will it be worth the extra cost??? That's something that only time will tell.
Also please remember this is all mere speculation and possible adding 2 & 2 together and making 5.
Oh and I'll not be buying a 69, not my era although I do like the livery.........on 69002 ;) ;)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/110/619-150621164523.jpeg)
Regards
Neal.
I don't profess to be an expert on the class, but is the Dapol one that bad? I thought it was a good model. Certainly not one that is crying out for improvement IMO, particularly with a new batch just announced and therefore demand sated.
The old Farish 56 is dismal, but I do wonder if it's more likely they're doing things the other way around and they'll re-use some elements of the 56 as a starting point (the bogies were never that bad - and could be a decent starting point), rather than the other way around.
Certainly the 56 is a very long way down the list of locos I'd recommend to Farish, for what little that's worth.
Quote from: njee20 on June 15, 2021, 06:04:55 PM
I don't profess to be an expert on the class, but is the Dapol one that bad? I thought it was a good model. Certainly not one that is crying out for improvement IMO, particularly with a new batch just announced and therefore demand sated.
It's now a generation back from the forefront - Dapol themselves have surpassed it with their own 50 (certainly in terms of mechanicals and DCC capability, sound fit, cab lights, and more broadly a superior drive).
Given Farish's current diesels being sound ready, coreless motor drive, I suspect the 69 will put the Dapol 56 in the shade - it's by no means a bad model, but times move ever onwards.
Given they'll tool all the chassis gubbins (not so much of which will be common to other models) it seems a no brainer to go the full way and add a 56 body into the tooling suite to stretch what they can get out of it all. But then who knows - we've seen very odd decisions in the past.
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: njee20 on June 15, 2021, 06:04:55 PM
I don't profess to be an expert on the class, but is the Dapol one that bad? I thought it was a good model. Certainly not one that is crying out for improvement IMO, particularly with a new batch just announced and therefore demand sated.
The old Farish 56 is dismal, but I do wonder if it's more likely they're doing things the other way around and they'll re-use some elements of the 56 as a starting point (the bogies were never that bad - and could be a decent starting point), rather than the other way around.
Certainly the 56 is a very long way down the list of locos I'd recommend to Farish, for what little that's worth.
From my understanding the Dapol model isn't bad.
It's more a case that Dapol keep shooting themselves in the foot and doing number / livery combinations which should have steel cabs or even a different cab design at each end.
Plus I seem to remember they didn't / don't always get the "grid" correct on numbered Romanian / U.K. build versions.
Besides that, I like the model.
Especially how cheap they could be picked up at shows.
Sigh, remember those?
Skyline2uk
They've certainly announced the Transrail one which has mismatched cabs, which they don't tool for, but I still don't think it's an obvious model to have two decent ones on the market. We shall see. Frankly I'll be annoyed if Farish invest the effort in that, rather than a 90, 59, retooled 66 or any number of other options.
the hornby 56 is supposed to be very good. therefore i can't see bachmann making one in oo to compete with the hornby one. i think that reduces the chance of them making one in n gauge. they aren't a massively popular class either so not sure they would sell many.
having said all that if farish really did want to duplicate an existing dapol diesel in n to reclaim a class for the farish brand then i suppose it would be a decent shout - if they have the chassis and bogies done for the 69.
i cant see the farish class 69 arriving before 2024 tbh anyway.
i quite like the look of the real 69s although not the livery on 69001.
tim
I really think we'll see within the next 12 months. Just a feelin'. 8)
I'm not a fan of the Dapol 56 - some shape issues round the cab and lots of detail issues. Being better than the terrible Farish 56 isn't saying much.
If you are doing a 69 then you'd be mad not to do a decent 56 given that you can share the chassis IMHO! The 56 has a lot of potential liveries if you get the details right.
Quote from: Dr Al on June 15, 2021, 09:59:36 AM
The obvious question here is, with the chassis and commonality of parts, will this mean a competitor 56 will appear next to Dapol's model?
Cheers,
Alan
As has been noted elsewhere there are more alterations which would suggest that a 56 is not a feasible option. But who knows what Farish are cooking up behind the scenes.
Quote from: njee20 on June 15, 2021, 08:21:02 AM
Quote from: N_GaugeModeller on June 15, 2021, 07:35:08 AM
Interesting that Class 66's don't meet current emissions rules but their engine's do ?.
NGM
Yep, as PLD said, it's more nuanced than that. Article about it here (https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/exclusive-the-gb-railfreight-class-69-project-explained).
While more nuanced in some respects its a lot simpler in some respects and honestly GBRf have played a blinder on this...
SO the ten engines were ordered and preregistered in the UK prior to the cut off date for 3A emissions standards, as such while not been on a loco the engines existed before 3A emissions standards were superseded.
If GBRf tried to use refurbished engines that wouldn't be allowed but as these are new engines they have "grandfather rights" which is why they have been sat in bubble wrap for near on 5 years, and was always the plan it was just a question of which class will be the donor and when!
Of course there is the obvious differences to a 66 but for the most part these are tier 2 class 66s, and while there is a slight cost saving on a new build it's not been that much cheaper, however the cost saving long term when you include maintenance etc is substantial, these are for all intent and purposes a class 66 with a few differences making the parts (with the exception of bogies and a few other bits) very much ready to come by and very cheap by rail standards.
Traction package wise there is only a few changes, so the coolant system used the radiators off a 67 instead of 66 to save space but truth be told knowing first hand how powerful the cooling system is on a 66, using the smaller class 67 system will just mean a longer run time on the fans which is no big issue as normally the AC power for them is just dissipated when the fans aren't running so there is no real loses there.
Plus there is a software change to the computer controlled traction package but that's to be expected due to ride characteristics its the same on 66/6s compared to all other class 66s in service (well apart from the DB HVO versions).
The proclaimed brake changes are more a case of compacting the whole frame which is rather spaced out in the 66s to something more snug but all the components are the same and then software changes for the different on bogie configurations although the pressures are the same as on the 66s and well every other loco truth be told.
Differences in the electrical set up is again to do with space while the 66s were designed from ground up with all the control systems at the number 1 end, the 69s have been retro fitted so its a case of fit it where there is space as such extra wiring to connect all the electrical control cabinets but the system is essentially identical to a class 66 for how it works.
But enough of the technical stuff.... 69001 oh dear god if they were pushing for brash and just ugly they have won this years award! I mean the flags on the side are well no offence to our american members (I am a dual national) but the sides look like something we would see on a UP loco, and the attempt with the whiskers just screams wrong! Thankfully 69002 looks a lot more understated and workmanlike just to see what the other 8 come out like!
Will I get a model of number 1 errr pass number 2 of course its retro and less of an eyesore!
Whilst it wouldn't surprise me if a class 56 were to follow from the 69 I can't see it being a high priority in either OO or N Gauge from Bachmann/Farish.
The Dapol 56 has some body issues and they struggle to get the combination of body types and liveries to match. There's a new batch of Next18 fitted class 56s due Q4/2021 - Q1/2022 which I'd guess will probably have sold out long before we see an EP1 of the 69.
Steven B.
Those talking about a new 56 in this thread, might be interested in this announcement from Cavalex https://www.cavalexmodels.com/cavalex-class-56 (https://www.cavalexmodels.com/cavalex-class-56) although it's only an OO announcement.
I did ask the question about an N gauge version and was told to "Watch this space!!" read into that what you will, but it does look like Cavalex have catered for most of the body anomalies between the Livery variations.
Would be great to see them shrunk to N, especially if they are as good as the photos of the EP's are showing.
Cheers
Neal.
If they release that in N I'll buy everyone on this thread one!*
Given they've never released an N gauge model, but have quietly dropped everything they've announced, or in the case of the 91 they couldn't even be bothered to start a thread on RMWeb to even pretend they were continuing. With the Dapol one out there too? IMO it would be a poor choice anyway.
I'd love to be wrong, because it would be great to see them enter the N gauge market.
I don't get their claim about unique liveries either - surely all of those have been done before. It's literally all the most obvious liveries to do I'd have thought.
*everyone whose name is Nick, and lives in Sussex
Quote from: njee20 on June 18, 2021, 02:23:16 PM
If they release that in N I'll buy everyone on this thread one!*
*everyone whose name is Nick, and lives in Sussex
Kent is close :D :D
Quote from: njee20 on June 18, 2021, 02:23:16 PM
If they release that in N I'll buy everyone on this thread one!*
*everyone whose name is Nick, and lives in Sussex
My name starts with an 'N', is that close enough :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
Regards
Neal.
Quote from: njee20 on June 18, 2021, 02:23:16 PM
I don't get their claim about unique liveries either - surely all of those have been done before. It's literally all the most obvious liveries to do I'd have thought.
I think it's the combination of Romanian/Doncaster built locos and different liveries that haven't been done before (and I'm guessing then only by Hornby with their newer release to current standards rather than the older Mainline/Dapol version).
Steven B.
Yeah, maybe. It says "whilst also releasing liveries never seen in 4mm scale", which is a bit tenuous if they mean "accurate represtations of a specific member of the sub-class in a certain livery". Time will tell! Two potential 56s to not be delivered in N ;D
Quote from: ntpntpntp on June 18, 2021, 02:35:55 PM
Quote from: njee20 on June 18, 2021, 02:23:16 PM
If they release that in N I'll buy everyone on this thread one!*
*everyone whose name is Nick, and lives in Sussex
Kent is close :D :D
Corr, dodged a bullet there didn't I!? Should've thought more carefully before I said that!
Quote from: njee20 on June 18, 2021, 02:23:16 PM
Given they've never released an N gauge model, but have quietly dropped everything they've announced, or in the case of the 91 they couldn't even be bothered to start a thread on RMWeb to even pretend they were continuing. With the Dapol one out there too? IMO it would be a poor choice anyway.
I'd love to be wrong, because it would be great to see them enter the N gauge market.
I contacted them a few weeks ago and was reassured about the N Gauge 225 project, and I've seen other comments here and there on Facebook and Twitter regarding the project. I believe the last time I saw anything was 4 weeks ago, quite publicly on Facebook, where they stated that the N 225 was still going ahead. Other N-related news is also due in the next few months, apparently.
Having worked for small manufacturers (not in this industry) before I kind of get why they'd want to lay low and knuckle down - especially if there's nothing material to show for a while. As a consumer, I find the lack of information and clear dialogue disheartening, but I totally get it from their point of view.
It's not so much a lack of updates. There's total silence. On the 91/mk4s Andy York shut down the OO gauge thread on RMWeb and invited Cav and Alex to set up a new one for the N gauge one. They didn't. There's not a single update on their website anywhere. Not even a spec, it's just "at design stage".
I ordered some of their PGAs which they then formally cancelled, but everything else just sort of fades away. I get not doing N gauge, it's a smaller market and tougher to get the volumes I'm sure, plus the OO gauge set will obviously pay more, but the persistent "yeah, yeah, we're doing N gauge" annoys me.
I will certainly be interested in picking up a few of these when they are eventually released. I am a fan of the class 56 and it was the Dapol class 56 release along with the announcement that they would be doing the class 142 Pacer that tipped me over the edge into N gauge all those years ago!