For any F1 fans unaware, the Turkish GP which was to replace the cancelled Canadian GP has now itself been cancelled. The French GP is being brought forward from 27th June to the 20th June and there will now be 2 races in Austria - 27th June and 4th July.
All subject to any further Covid developments, of course.
I thought this was a DCC topic??
Given Turkey yielded such an interesting race last year that's a shame, but understandable. Austria can be pretty interesting.
Quote from: Railwaygun on May 14, 2021, 11:43:58 PM
I thought this was a DCC topic??
Eh? ??? What's DCC? Is David Coulthard's middle name Christopher? :P
I thought the main change was going to be to stop Lewis winning !
Can you not keep F1 to an F1 Forum. This is an N Gauge Forum.
As a moderator I would have thought you had better sense.
Or as the section title says
General Discussion
Talk about anything here! Other gauges, hobbies, the weather...
So no problem talking about F1, motor racing or the fish ;)
Quote from: GlenEglise on May 16, 2021, 02:23:51 AM
Can you not keep F1 to an F1 Forum. This is an N Gauge Forum.
As a moderator I would have thought you had better sense.
If it offends you so much I suggest you don't read it, or anything else in this section.
Quote from: GlenEglise on May 16, 2021, 02:23:51 AM
Can you not keep F1 to an F1 Forum. This is an N Gauge Forum.
As a moderator I would have thought you had better sense.
Wow...
You seem to post a lot about real trains. Can you not keep that to a more suitable forum? This is for N gauge.
Quote from: OffshoreAlan on May 16, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: GlenEglise on May 16, 2021, 02:23:51 AM
Can you not keep F1 to an F1 Forum. This is an N Gauge Forum.
As a moderator I would have thought you had better sense.
How rude.
Probably best you keep your nose out of the Baseball thread then!
:P
Quote from: emjaybee on May 16, 2021, 10:26:02 PM
Quote from: OffshoreAlan on May 16, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: GlenEglise on May 16, 2021, 02:23:51 AM
Can you not keep F1 to an F1 Forum. This is an N Gauge Forum.
As a moderator I would have thought you had better sense.
How rude.
Probably best you keep your nose out of the Baseball thread then!
:P
What there's a Baseball thread on the Forum, are all the players around 14mm high ;)
Quote from: Nbodger on May 16, 2021, 10:56:35 PM
Quote from: emjaybee on May 16, 2021, 10:26:02 PM
Quote from: OffshoreAlan on May 16, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: GlenEglise on May 16, 2021, 02:23:51 AM
Can you not keep F1 to an F1 Forum. This is an N Gauge Forum.
As a moderator I would have thought you had better sense.
How rude.
Probably best you keep your nose out of the Baseball thread then!
:P
What there's a Baseball thread on the Forum, are all the players around 14mm high ;)
Absolutely. The reason you ain't see 'em is 'no ticket, no entry!'
;D
Quote from: GlenEglise on May 16, 2021, 02:23:51 AM
Can you not keep F1 to an F1 Forum. This is an N Gauge Forum.
As a moderator I would have thought you had better sense.
A Bit harsh that Glen, are you saying that people on this forum shouldn't have or talk about any other interests? There are threads in this section on Football and Beer, no I am not interested in Football and I'm Teetotal, but, I wouldn't deny those who have those interests the chance to discuss them, I just pass those posts by and suggest you do the same.
Probably best you keep your nose out of the Baseball thread then!
:P
[/quote]
Whats Bassball 8) 8) 8) 8) :wave: :wave: :wave:
Quote from: N_GaugeModeller on May 18, 2021, 11:50:59 AM
Whats Bassball
At a guess it's either some form of fishing bait or it's a completely spherical beer can :beers:
Quote from: N_GaugeModeller on May 16, 2021, 08:57:07 AM
Or as the section title says
General Discussion
Talk about anything here! Other gauges, hobbies, the weather...
So no problem talking about F1, motor racing or the fish ;)
What fish? Not this one I hope :(
Quote from: N_GaugeModeller on May 18, 2021, 11:50:59 AM
Whats Bassball 8) 8) 8) 8) :wave: :wave: :wave:
Boring, very very boring! ;)
Quote from: wombat457 on May 30, 2021, 06:04:28 AM
Quote from: N_GaugeModeller on May 18, 2021, 11:50:59 AM
Whats Bassball 8) 8) 8) 8) :wave: :wave: :wave:
Boring, very very boring! ;)
Does it come close to watching paint dry? :hmmm:
Quote from: Mr Sprue on May 30, 2021, 08:03:47 AM
Quote from: wombat457 on May 30, 2021, 06:04:28 AM
Quote from: N_GaugeModeller on May 18, 2021, 11:50:59 AM
Whats Bassball 8) 8) 8) 8) :wave: :wave: :wave:
Boring, very very boring! ;)
Does it come close to watching paint dry? :hmmm:
Depends what colour... ... ... ;) :uneasy:
Quote from: Mr Sprue on May 30, 2021, 08:03:47 AM
Quote from: wombat457 on May 30, 2021, 06:04:28 AM
Quote from: N_GaugeModeller on May 18, 2021, 11:50:59 AM
Whats Bassball 8) 8) 8) 8) :wave: :wave: :wave:
Boring, very very boring! ;)
Does it come close to watching paint dry? :hmmm:
Well, put it this way ...............
I'd rather watch 25 laps of the Monaco GP, in the wet, with the safety car out .... :D
Quote from: wombat457 on May 31, 2021, 01:37:21 AM
Quote from: Mr Sprue on May 30, 2021, 08:03:47 AM
Quote from: wombat457 on May 30, 2021, 06:04:28 AM
Quote from: N_GaugeModeller on May 18, 2021, 11:50:59 AM
Whats Bassball 8) 8) 8) 8) :wave: :wave: :wave:
Boring, very very boring! ;)
Does it come close to watching paint dry? :hmmm:
Well, put it this way ...............
I'd rather watch 25 laps of the Monaco GP, in the wet, with the safety car out .... :D
LOL.... I like your analytic example of boredom! :D
Bumping this thread rather than start a new one, but for the first time since 1974 F1 goes into the last race of the season with two drivers equal on points following yesterdays Wacky Race in Saudi Arabia. All will be decided next week in Abu Dhabi. If Hamilton and Verstappen take each other out (distinctly possible) Verstappen wins the championship on the basis he has 9 race wins to Hamilton's 8.
I have no real care who wins but no one can say this season has not been a thriller as F1 goes.
oh for the days when the cars were parked one side of the track, and the drivers lined up on the other side :-[
Yesterday was bordering on farcical; absolutely incredible race. For me Verstappen has shown himself to be a deeply unpleasant 'win at all costs' character, who I really dislike. I thought he was maturing, but clearly not, nurtured by Messrs Verstappen sr, Marko and Horner, who all appear to be scales of unpleasant.
I really hope for a good race next weekend, but I fear that Verstappen will not play fair and the two will end up DNF.
After yesterdays blatent stretching of the rules by all involved, 'Crash for Cash' seems to have reached F1, I am awaiting for a personal injury claim to be forthcoming although I'm unsure how they will explain the three passengers they will claim were in the car as well. :hmmm:
Quote from: class37025 on December 06, 2021, 10:23:56 AM
oh for the days when the cars were parked one side of the track, and the drivers lined up on the other side :-[
Then we'd see Mad Max tying Lewis's laces together to trip him up! :whistle:
Quote from: njee20 on December 06, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Yesterday was bordering on farcical; absolutely incredible race. For me Verstappen has shown himself to be a deeply unpleasant 'win at all costs' character, who I really dislike. I thought he was maturing, but clearly not, nurtured by Messrs Verstappen sr, Marko and Horner, who all appear to be scales of unpleasant.
I really hope for a good race next weekend, but I fear that Verstappen will not play fair and the two will end up DNF.
After Brazil he's learned that if anyone tries to overtake him around the outside, he just needs to not brake. He runs off the track but so does his opponent and he doesn't get a penalty while keeping the place. Also the "tactical" letting another driver by to avoid a penalty just before the DRS line should be penalised just the same as Lewis did in Spa many years ago when he let Kimi in the Ferrari past him after overtaking while off the track, then used the slipstream to immediately re-overtake him legally. He got a 5 second penalty for still benefiting from his off track overtake, so anyone giving a position back just in time to do the same with DRS should get the same.
I strongly believe the whole Red Bull team management system is toxic at the moment. They're making their junior drivers far more anxious about their careers than they should while hyping up their main driver to the point where he honestly seems to believe that the FIA should just give him the championship because he's younger than Lewis. All the while stirring up as much FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) in the media about how legal their opponents are (while cheating as much as they can themselves of course).
Quote from: njee20 on December 06, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Yesterday was bordering on farcical; absolutely incredible race. For me Verstappen has shown himself to be a deeply unpleasant 'win at all costs' character, who I really dislike. I thought he was maturing, but clearly not, nurtured by Messrs Verstappen sr, Marko and Horner, who all appear to be scales of unpleasant.
I really hope for a good race next weekend, but I fear that Verstappen will not play fair and the two will end up DNF.
doing a Schumacher
Indeed. I hope they'd take a suitably dim view of that and dock points, but they seem rather keen to ensure it's not Mercedes who win again!
Quote from: njee20 on December 06, 2021, 12:45:28 PM
Indeed. I hope they'd take a suitably dim view of that and dock points, but they seem rather keen to ensure it's not Mercedes who win again!
I don't think the stewards or race director can dock points - so it'd probably end up in a long legal wrangle with the championship winner not being decided until, probably, after next season has started.
What is annoying me is the constant whining coming from the Red Bull camp. If I was a betting man I would lay money on that Horner was the classroom snitch and teachers pet when he was at school! ::)
Quote from: chrism on December 06, 2021, 12:51:19 PM
Quote from: njee20 on December 06, 2021, 12:45:28 PM
Indeed. I hope they'd take a suitably dim view of that and dock points, but they seem rather keen to ensure it's not Mercedes who win again!
I don't think the stewards or race director can dock points - so it'd probably end up in a long legal wrangle with the championship winner not being decided until, probably, after next season has started.
The only real scenario for the driver is where the driver or team does some so blatant that they get disqualified from the season (Schumacher when he tried to ram Villeneuve off the road to win the championship at Jerez, McLaren's "Spygate" scandal or when Tyrrell were caught adding lead shot to their car with the water tank top ups to run illegally light during the races). Then the driver or team (or feasibly both) can have all their points removed.
Teams have been docked points for breaking the rules. Force India last year for instance when the Pink Mercedes was found to have copied its brake ducts directly from the Mercedes design rather than making their own design. They lost 15 championship points in the constructors championship for that.
That was a blatant brake test by Verstappen ,Hamilton didnt have a chance to avoid running into the back of him ,if you are going to abide by the rules Verstappen should have gone to the left or right to let Hamilton pass safely .That just shows what a childish driver he is .I think he should get some form of penalty for that .
It seems that someone is derermined that Hamilton wont win the Championship this year . That race was a total farce .
Bob Tidbury
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on December 06, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
...I think he should get some form of penalty for that .
It seems that someone is derermined that Hamilton wont win the Championship this year .
Verstappen did get a 10 second post race penalty, which still kept him in second place, disqualification would have been more appropriate in my opinion.
Mike H
He also had two points put on his licence does anyone know how many youre allowed before any action taken?
Quote from: Madann01 on December 06, 2021, 02:41:01 PM
He also had two points put on his licence does anyone know how many youre allowed before any action taken?
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIA_Super_Licence#Sanctions;
The FIA have a series of sanctions which can be placed on a driver's Super Licence which are in the form of reprimands and penalty points. If a driver accumulated three reprimands over the course of a season the FIA may impose penalty points. If a driver accumulates 12 or more penalty points in a 12-month period they will receive a one race ban for the next event they are scheduled to participate in.
Quote from: Nbodger on December 06, 2021, 02:31:17 PM
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on December 06, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
...I think he should get some form of penalty for that .
It seems that someone is derermined that Hamilton wont win the Championship this year .
Verstappen did get a 10 second post race penalty, which still kept him in second place, disqualification would have been more appropriate in my opinion.
Or, at the very least, a grid penalty for the next race - fifteen should be sufficient to put him in with the crowd that often take each other out during lap one :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: zwilnik on December 06, 2021, 02:03:27 PM
Quote from: chrism on December 06, 2021, 12:51:19 PM
Quote from: njee20 on December 06, 2021, 12:45:28 PM
Indeed. I hope they'd take a suitably dim view of that and dock points, but they seem rather keen to ensure it's not Mercedes who win again!
I don't think the stewards or race director can dock points - so it'd probably end up in a long legal wrangle with the championship winner not being decided until, probably, after next season has started.
The only real scenario for the driver is where the driver or team does some so blatant that they get disqualified from the season (Schumacher when he tried to ram Villeneuve off the road to win the championship at Jerez, McLaren's "Spygate" scandal or when Tyrrell were caught adding lead shot to their car with the water tank top ups to run illegally light during the races). Then the driver or team (or feasibly both) can have all their points removed.
Teams have been docked points for breaking the rules. Force India last year for instance when the Pink Mercedes was found to have copied its brake ducts directly from the Mercedes design rather than making their own design. They lost 15 championship points in the constructors championship for that.
But all of those penalties have to be imposed by the FIA, not the race stewards or controller. Hence my saying that it could be some time (what with appeals, legal challenges, more appeals, etc.) before the championship result would be finally determined.
Quote from: chrism on December 06, 2021, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Nbodger on December 06, 2021, 02:31:17 PM
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on December 06, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
...I think he should get some form of penalty for that .
It seems that someone is derermined that Hamilton wont win the Championship this year .
Verstappen did get a 10 second post race penalty, which still kept him in second place, disqualification would have been more appropriate in my opinion.
Or, at the very least, a grid penalty for the next race - fifteen should be sufficient to put him in with the crowd that often take each other out during lap one :smiley-laughing:
@chrism (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7182) Now that really is evil >:D :D
There is definitely one rule that has to be scrapped in my opinion and that is: No tyre changes or adjustments to be made in the pit lane when under the red flag. It was a disaster for our young Lando who could have finished well up on the points if it wasn't for Schumacher's visit to the safety barrier.
But reading all the recent posts F1 is due for tidy up regarding some rules!
Quote from: Mr Sprue on December 06, 2021, 03:14:05 PM
There is definitely one rule that has to be scrapped in my opinion and that is: No tyre changes or adjustments to be made in the pit lane when under the red flag. It was a disaster for our young Lando who could have finished well up on the points if it wasn't for Schumacher's visit to the safety barrier.
But reading all the recent posts F1 is due for tidy up regarding some rules!
This year's been a classic one for testing the rules and gameplay involved with the sport so tweaks can be done for future years. Although it'll take a lot of wrangling to actually implement them.
Quote from: Newportnobby on December 06, 2021, 03:11:05 PM
@chrism (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7182) Now that really is evil >:D :D
Nah, deserves it
My day was made on Saturday when Verstappen put his car into the wall, having brushed with it earlier in the lap, the truth is I gave a load cheer, for which Mrs N called me unsportsmanlike :no:
Here in the Netherlands the opinions are quiete different :D
You brits get carried away a bit about penalties and tire change rules.
I'll be the first to admit that the penalties are justified and that Max was indeed a bit of a mad Max.
But I don't hear a word about Lewis messing up the restart of Max. That also was not according to the rules but everyone starts shouting if Max loses his temper because of the resultant wheel spin at the restart.
I'll get my coat now :-[
Quote from: JanW on December 06, 2021, 06:48:49 PM
But I don't hear a word about Lewis messing up the restart of Max. That also was not according to the rules but everyone starts shouting if Max loses his temper because of the resultant wheel spin at the restart.
What Hamilton did was within the rules as it was not the parade lap reference clarification from Michael Massi, it was a restart within a race that had already started
Quote from: Nbodger on December 06, 2021, 07:10:09 PM
Quote from: JanW on December 06, 2021, 06:48:49 PM
But I don't hear a word about Lewis messing up the restart of Max. That also was not according to the rules but everyone starts shouting if Max loses his temper because of the resultant wheel spin at the restart.
What Hamilton did was within the rules as it was not the parade lap reference clarification from Michael Massi, it was a restart within a race that had already started
Correct. Although it looked like a formation lap, it was actually a lap of the race.
Ok, so of the rules are in favour of the driver you support then there is nothing wrong with them.
And if Lewis / Mercedes had not changed to hard tyres during the yellow flag but Max would have done that then there would not have been a discussion about that either.
Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that Max was wrong in trying to overtake Lewis and that 'letting Lewis pass' was not his intention at all.
He had no chance to win the race anyway because of their choice for the yellow tire.
But now you make it seem that every rule in F1 is unfair and should be changed.
Suppose Max would have been on white tires in the last stint and Lewis had not been able to overtake him.
The 10 sec penalty would have meant second place for Max then.
It doesn't seem like a lot but 10 seconds is a lot of time in F1.
And a grid penalty means nothing these days. If Lewis of Max start in the back of the field they finish second or even first.
Unlike the other drivers of the same teams who are stuck in traffic most of the times.
I'm looking forward to the last race. May the best man (and car) win. In a fair race!!
Jan
Quote from: JanW on December 06, 2021, 09:14:36 PM
Ok, so of the rules are in favour of the driver you support then there is nothing wrong with them.
What?
I just stated the facts, it was within the rules as RB were told by Massi
What I don't understand is that this year there seems to be a whole range of scenarios that race control have not encountered before and have seemingly made up ways to deal with it on the hoof. But back in the day there were rules for every possible occurrence imaginable with clear processes for dealing with them. I know F1 has new ownership, a new race director, but all still sanctioned by the FIA. Surely those rules still exist?
A race consisting of two laps behind a safety car would not have happened in Bernie's day, under Charlie Whiting's supervision.
There can't be many series that allow teams to work on their cars during a red flag period.
Sorry, this was not meant as a personal attack or anything like it.
But I understand you felt it that way now I reread my own words. Sorry for that.
And it is certainly not my intention to start the same discussion we see on the track or in the paddock. Far from it!
My real intention was to say that Max was wrong (i did say that) and that the rules would have had the desired effect if Max had kept his track position.
And it is because of the extreme difference between Lewis/Max and the rest that he didn't lose more points.
While typing this message I was thinking that I could start a second hobby: slot car racing.
Has anyone ever seen a slot car track with scenery?
Jan
Quote from: JanW on December 06, 2021, 09:37:14 PM
While typing this message I was thinking that I could start a second hobby: slot car racing.
Has anyone ever seen a slot car track with scenery?
Jan
Probably a bit tricky in 1:148 although the old Lima 31 could go just as fast as a real car and made the right noise.
(https://scontent-lcy1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p180x540/264404888_1176385506218654_2963142528734757754_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_eui2=AeEGp9NY3A70bILuX0hg0Z8AW6b1QLvVssZbpvVAu9Wyxvm9oAHK9t2GfgYf5qmum3-Ivswhoil_aD_9Y21CTgSq&_nc_ohc=XcAWv-JsMtEAX_hpNfA&_nc_ht=scontent-lcy1-1.xx&oh=9d5ef194cb69fe6f21a86031e6add72a&oe=61B4F3CE)
:D
Maybe not as bad as 'Kingspan', which shows a complete lack of sensitivity ::)
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mercedes-could-re-evaluate-kingspan-f1-deal-after-backlash/6852766/ (https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mercedes-could-re-evaluate-kingspan-f1-deal-after-backlash/6852766/)
Quote from: JanW on December 06, 2021, 09:37:14 PM
While typing this message I was thinking that I could start a second hobby: slot car racing.
Has anyone ever seen a slot car track with scenery?
Jan
Yes, but unless you're planning to use HO or 1/48th slot cars (which are rubbish), you need quite a large space or need to create quite a small track. Then again a Rallycross track such as Lidden Hill would work really well as a relatively small, scenic track without too much compression.
Perhaps F1 should install slots at all circuits to keep the Flying Dutchman on line and on the track! ;D
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on December 06, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
That was a blatant brake test by Verstappen ,Hamilton didnt have a chance to avoid running into the back of him ,if you are going to abide by the rules Verstappen should have gone to the left or right to let Hamilton pass safely .That just shows what a childish driver he is .I think he should get some form of penalty for that .
It seems that someone is derermined that Hamilton wont win the Championship this year . That race was a total farce .
Bob Tidbury
I agree, and add that it is a symptom of the poor control of races by the Stewards that has got progressively worse as the season runs on. I suspect the new owners requirement that races are nullified if one driver is a long way ahead with a few laps of safety car. The fiasco at Spa this year was a blatant attempt to engineer a close finish to the season and they seem to have been successful in that we have equal points for the last race.
I used to watch Champ cars (remember that breakaway from Indy cars) and Nascar and they had fairly regular and very similar stewarding decisions.
Quote from: Mr Sprue on December 07, 2021, 10:57:26 AM
(https://scontent-lcy1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p180x540/264404888_1176385506218654_2963142528734757754_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_eui2=AeEGp9NY3A70bILuX0hg0Z8AW6b1QLvVssZbpvVAu9Wyxvm9oAHK9t2GfgYf5qmum3-Ivswhoil_aD_9Y21CTgSq&_nc_ohc=XcAWv-JsMtEAX_hpNfA&_nc_ht=scontent-lcy1-1.xx&oh=9d5ef194cb69fe6f21a86031e6add72a&oe=61B4F3CE)
:D
Shouldn't that be RB's new sponsor? I've not seen too much going the way of Mercedes from the stewards, they seem pretty set on getting a new winner!
As Newport Nobby said that was a big big mistake putting Kingspan on the Mercedes Car though Kingspan have said there wasnt a lot of their product on the Grenfell Tower .
Bob Tidbury
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on December 07, 2021, 06:13:04 PM
As Newport Nobby said that was a big big mistake putting Kingspan on the Mercedes Car though Kingspan have said there wasnt a lot of their product on the Grenfell Tower .
Bob Tidbury
From what I read, what Kingspan product was put on the tower was without their knowledge and against their recommendation.
Given the scale of the tragedy and the serious amount of grift and general dodgyness involved in what led up to it though. I think any company involved in it, however tangentially, is high risk as a potential sponsor.
Quote from: zwilnik on December 07, 2021, 06:34:10 PM
From what I read, what Kingspan product was put on the tower was without their knowledge and against their recommendation.
Given the scale of the tragedy and the serious amount of grift and general dodgyness involved in what led up to it though. I think any company involved in it, however tangentially, is high risk as a potential sponsor.
In motor racing terms, the media vilifying Kingspan (and politicians jumping on the bandwagon) is the equivalent of blaming Pirelli for the car on slicks crashing in the wet when everyone else is on treaded tyres...
It is clearly not the safe & sensible thing to do and clearly against the manufacturer's recommendations, but you just know someone will be stupid enough to risk it...
The flip side of the whole Kingspan thing is that they're a huge multinational corporation, most of whom will have courted controversy. We had tobacco companies for decades, their products have killed millions of people, more directly than Kingspan's.
The Kingspan sponsorship deal has been cancelled;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59575979 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59575979)
Can't wait to watch the final race! :)
(https://scontent-lcy1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/265173344_10223365223613362_278758321111585890_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_eui2=AeHeWYoGzQKO8lCpaW2neCmHyTgDZiyDc7fJOANmLINzt9XqIGGgs_Sx2gwm3c9AYk-i6B071F_wpCK0os8Cs2uT&_nc_ohc=0taHhd-sRSsAX-LZqaE&_nc_ht=scontent-lcy1-1.xx&oh=c8f18d0057293d34ffb04992d7819e0c&oe=61B5AD2A)
As if Her Majesty would side against one of her Knights!!! :no:
The final race is to be shown live on C4 on Sunday, after they struck a deal with Sky to share the broadcasting rights.
Haven't got timings for the broadcast times yet, my EPG hasn't updated, but the race start is supposed to be 13:00 GMT. Also, don't know if the highlights show, currently in the EPG at 17:25, will be rescheduled or simply cancelled.
RB have prepared Max's car for the big showdown! :D
(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/265398513_10223365351816567_7878509373616383448_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_eui2=AeEjd6E4BU5Z4G2vJ79n_jEF4BrSFOA1u5LgGtIU4DW7knJ5cmCuXgXfenWPdFt4S4TPTZD0G4LLoI2G6twUghIe&_nc_ohc=qqgubnzGqgAAX8xHpYb&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=5f16683dab8860747c42c86c752434d7&oe=61B737BF)
:laughabovepost: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: chrism on December 09, 2021, 07:33:27 AM
The final race is to be shown live on C4 on Sunday, after they struck a deal with Sky to share the broadcasting rights.
Haven't got timings for the broadcast times yet, my EPG hasn't updated, but the race start is supposed to be 13:00 GMT. Also, don't know if the highlights show, currently in the EPG at 17:25, will be rescheduled or simply cancelled.
Can anybody confirm the above please? Even the Ch4 site only shows the highlights programme at 1730hrs. ::)
Addit: Just done a bit of digging and found this on the 'Observer' website -
The Formula One world championship showdown will be broadcast on free-to-air television after Channel 4 announced they will screen the season-ending Abu Dhabi Grand Prix live.
Quote from: Mr Sprue on December 09, 2021, 09:04:15 AM
RB have prepared Max's car for the big showdown! :D
(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/265398513_10223365351816567_7878509373616383448_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_eui2=AeEjd6E4BU5Z4G2vJ79n_jEF4BrSFOA1u5LgGtIU4DW7knJ5cmCuXgXfenWPdFt4S4TPTZD0G4LLoI2G6twUghIe&_nc_ohc=qqgubnzGqgAAX8xHpYb&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=5f16683dab8860747c42c86c752434d7&oe=61B737BF)
no rear
bullbars ? >:D
Quote from: dannyboy on December 09, 2021, 12:20:57 PM
Quote from: chrism on December 09, 2021, 07:33:27 AM
The final race is to be shown live on C4 on Sunday, after they struck a deal with Sky to share the broadcasting rights.
Haven't got timings for the broadcast times yet, my EPG hasn't updated, but the race start is supposed to be 13:00 GMT. Also, don't know if the highlights show, currently in the EPG at 17:25, will be rescheduled or simply cancelled.
Can anybody confirm the above please? Even the Ch4 site only shows the highlights programme at 1730hrs. ::)
Addit: Just done a bit of digging and found this on the 'Observer' website -
The Formula One world championship showdown will be broadcast on free-to-air television after Channel 4 announced they will screen the season-ending Abu Dhabi Grand Prix live.
Sorry, forgot to paste in the link;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59588805 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59588805)
I think this is what's needed on both if they get close to one-another...
(https://cdn.bseenbsafe.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/l/class_4.2_spontaneously_combiustible.png)
I'm waiting for the new improved F1. They've solved the noise problems, they've fixed the pollution issues, they can be raced on smaller circuits, and the vehicles are designed to survive the now standard driver tantrums - F1 pedal cars
Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 09, 2021, 01:16:01 PM
I'm waiting for the new improved F1. They've solved the noise problems, they've fixed the pollution issues, they can be raced on smaller circuits, and the vehicles are designed to survive the now standard driver tantrums - F1 pedal cars
The smaller circuits sounds appealing, Brands Hatch maybe? :hmmm: Now that would be good!
Quote from: Mr Sprue on December 09, 2021, 05:21:52 PM
Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 09, 2021, 01:16:01 PM
I'm waiting for the new improved F1. They've solved the noise problems, they've fixed the pollution issues, they can be raced on smaller circuits, and the vehicles are designed to survive the now standard driver tantrums - F1 pedal cars
The smaller circuits sounds appealing, Brands Hatch maybe? :hmmm: Now that would be good!
Unfortunately Brands Hatch can't be upgraded to current F1 safety standards (they'd need to demolish a lot of houses around it for the space needed for gravel traps and access etc.)
Then again, Brands Hatch does host the F1 Masters most years and they're absolutely brilliant there. Proper 1970s & 80s F1 cars being properly raced. Also the tickets are a hell of a lot cheaper than for a Grand Prix and you even get access to the paddock and back of the pits!
Quote from: dannyboy on December 09, 2021, 12:20:57 PM
Quote from: chrism on December 09, 2021, 07:33:27 AM
The final race is to be shown live on C4 on Sunday, after they struck a deal with Sky to share the broadcasting rights.
Haven't got timings for the broadcast times yet, my EPG hasn't updated, but the race start is supposed to be 13:00 GMT. Also, don't know if the highlights show, currently in the EPG at 17:25, will be rescheduled or simply cancelled.
Can anybody confirm the above please? Even the Ch4 site only shows the highlights programme at 1730hrs. ::)
Addit: Just done a bit of digging and found this on the 'Observer' website -
The Formula One world championship showdown will be broadcast on free-to-air television after Channel 4 announced they will screen the season-ending Abu Dhabi Grand Prix live.
According to my EPG the Ch4 Build up prog starts at 12 noon, with the race starting at 13.00 and the prog finishing at 16.00
Quote from: Newportnobby on December 09, 2021, 10:05:48 PM
Quote from: dannyboy on December 09, 2021, 12:20:57 PM
Quote from: chrism on December 09, 2021, 07:33:27 AM
The final race is to be shown live on C4 on Sunday, after they struck a deal with Sky to share the broadcasting rights.
Haven't got timings for the broadcast times yet, my EPG hasn't updated, but the race start is supposed to be 13:00 GMT. Also, don't know if the highlights show, currently in the EPG at 17:25, will be rescheduled or simply cancelled.
Can anybody confirm the above please? Even the Ch4 site only shows the highlights programme at 1730hrs. ::)
Addit: Just done a bit of digging and found this on the 'Observer' website -
The Formula One world championship showdown will be broadcast on free-to-air television after Channel 4 announced they will screen the season-ending Abu Dhabi Grand Prix live.
According to my EPG the Ch4 Build up prog starts at 12 noon, with the race starting at 13.00 and the prog finishing at 16.00
Yep, mine's updated too - and my PVR has been clever enough to spot it, add timers and delete the previous timers I'd set for the programmes (*) that have been replaced.
(*) loosely termed since two of them were, aargh, The Simpsons.
For those who can't watch it live or record it, the highlights show is still listed as being 17:30-19:00.
Quote from: chrism on December 10, 2021, 06:50:06 AM
Yep, mine's updated too - and my PVR has been clever enough to spot it
And mine :). And, Louisa being Louisa, I will be able to watch as it is broadcast and then go back to the recording to view again any 'accidents' ................ ;)
Probably stating the obvious but it is absolutely not in Hamilton's interests to go off the track with or without Verstappen. Therefore any pressure steward wise is likely to be focused on Red Bull. Bottas is too far back to do anything to help but Perez in 4th on the grid might be. Norris might have the best seat in the house! (Yeah - I know he drives a McLaren and not a Seat ::))
Roll on 1pm tomorrow :bounce:
Yes can't wait to see what happens at the first corner. :) If Lando gets a good start being the feisty young driver he is, he will for sure capitalise on any opportunities handed out if the other two start exchanging paintwork!
What a total farce, F1 completely ruined by the FIA and Masi.
F1 will be done for once ICE cars are phased out anyway.
It's all about the £/$/Dirhams.
Quote from: thebrighton on December 12, 2021, 02:37:18 PM
What a total farce, F1 completely ruined by the FIA and Masi.
Totally agree, what they hell was all that about?
first lapped cars could not pass, then they let some through and restarted!!
as you say, totally ruined the race and the championship by NOT sticking to the correct precedures. As far as I am aware if they are to let lapped cars past, they MUST let ALL lapped cars past not just the ones between the 2 championship protagonists!!!
Best wishes from a bloomin angry, keeping the language controlled hehe!!!
Simon
agree, rules are rules, or not in this case.
would continue but might become political. :'(
I always understood that when the safety car was out NO ONE COULD OVERTAKE.
but then, what would I know :-[
There definitely needs to be a new rule - once a decision has been made by the Race Director and his team, that decision stays. It is not the first time this season that a decision has been changed.
Great FI season finale - but for all the wrong reasons.
Ah well, hours of air time and acres of text will occupy the journos and pundits for months (years?) to come, but it was what it was and let's see what next year brings. Maybe a new rule book? (and an education for those who enforce it?)
Well done to Verstappen and Red Bull and commiserations to Hamilton.
P.S. - I reserve the right to amend/modify the above last statement should need arise in the near future. :D
The race director should know the rules and follow them, not use his own interpretation to ensure the race finished without a safety car, thus leaving Hamilton at a knife fight and Verstappen with a gun.
For crying out loud, if the rules mean the race would have finished under a safety car then that's the rules!!!!!!
I'm sick and furious, and believe Mercedes/Hamilton have been shortchanged even though I didn't care who won. The stewards and Masi in particular handed this championship to Red Bull/Verstappen on a plate.
And for what it's worth, I thought the decision to take no action when Hamilton had to go off the track was correct. Where else was he supposed to go?
Sadly, I can't see the result being overruled now the rose water has been sprayed and trophies presented despite 2 protests being made by Mercedes. :(
Sack Masi and work to the rules. :veryangry:
Quote from: Newportnobby on December 12, 2021, 04:24:32 PM
The race director should know the rules and follow them, not use his own interpretation to ensure the race finished without a safety car, thus leaving Hamilton at a knife fight and Verstappen with a gun.
For crying out loud, if the rules mean the race would have finished under a safety car then that's the rules!!!!!!
I'm sick and furious, and believe Mercedes/Hamilton have been shortchanged even though I didn't care who won. The stewards and Masi in particular handed this championship to Red Bull/Verstappen on a plate.
Definitely. If they wanted the race to end as a live race then they should not have permitted any lapped cars to pass the safety car, since there wasn't time.
If they wanted to let lapped cars pass, then they should have let ALL of them do so, not just those between the leading two cars. They'd have run out of time but, AIUI, them's the rules.
QuoteAnd for what it's worth, I thought the decision to take no action when Hamilton had to go off the track was correct. Where else was he supposed to go?
Indeed - Max ran Lewis off the track, he should not have benefited from that and, rightly, did not do so.
FWIW, had Max won with no shenanigans/assistance at all from the so-called race director, I'd have been far more happy for him - he'd have thoroughly deserved it.
Quote from: Newportnobby on December 12, 2021, 04:24:32 PM
Sadly, I can't see the result being overruled now the rose water has been sprayed and trophies presented despite 2 protests being made by Mercedes. :(
Sack Masi and work to the rules. :veryangry:
Unfortunately the result probably won't change, but hopefully it will lead to Masi being sacked. He's been abysmal all year, including putting marshals on the track while the race was live, not penalising drivers who did multiple laps without safety belts on, the whole Belgian GP farce, dawdling about deploying the safety car when a tractor was on track, allowing Max to basically run people off the road whenever he thought they might overtake etc. This was just the last straw.
Btw. exclusive footage here of Masi manipulating the end result as subtly as possible.. https://youtu.be/c7qIwDjujO4
My main interest in racing sport was the Tour de France. I have watched both that and F1 on and off since the late 1980s.
I was even in the crowd at the end of the famous stage in Montelimar during the infamous Floyd Landis Tour de Farce. After all the scandals I only look at Le Tour casually. Of course, in the case of Le Tour it was ever thus.
It is horrible when you realise a sport you enjoy is as bent as ... something.
I reckon they'll end up nullifying today's result. It takes the wind out of Mercedes' sails, and Max still wins. Absolute joke that they did this. Masi has to go. The guy's an oaf.
I'm not sure it's bent, certainly not in the same way as the TdF from the mid-90s to the mid-00s, but the officials are inept, and that's probably worse.
I have to admit I'm not Lewis's biggest fan, but the outcome of this race has left a bad taste in my mouth and from where I'm standing he out drove Max and the RB team fair and square.
I've always thought that tyre changes under a red flag or safety car should not be allowed, today showed just how unfair this can be along with Massi's intervention and total fk up! :scowl:
So rules are just a suggestion then. FIA couldn't admit they got it wrong. A dark day for F1.
Quote from: thebrighton on December 12, 2021, 07:04:27 PM
So rules are just a suggestion then. FIA couldn't admit they got it wrong. A dark day for F1.
Agreed.
Quote from: Mr Sprue on December 12, 2021, 06:48:49 PM
Lewis .....out drove Max and the RB team fair and square.
Totally agree
Quote from: Mr Sprue on December 12, 2021, 06:48:49 PM
I've always thought that tyre changes under a red flag or safety car should not be allowed,
I tend to agree, but, I would have no objection to that being allowed, provided the relevant driver then had to re-join the race at the back. :)
Jean Todt is being interviewed on French TV right now.
He seems to be a little bit embarassed about today's race.
I just feel so very sorry for Lewis. It's obvious to me that F1, the FIA, or both, haven't liked the increase in volume of Lewis's profile these past few years and wanted to mute him. This season has been a fit-up job from day one! :censored: :veryangry: :censored:
You know where this message comes from and I don't want to say anything about the rules here.
But apart from the interpretation of the rules - about which I do understand your sentiments - I think another reason for the result was the strategy of Mercedes.
They have not anticipated any possible disruption at all. They could have changed to hard tires much later, had another opportunity to change tyres when Max did (Lewis was faster on all tyres) and they could have gone for red tyres during the safety car.
The last one would have been a gamble but there is no way he could defend his position on those 47/48 laps old tyres if the race was to restart.
Strategy was just too defensive I think.
Jan
It's definitely true that they were hyper defensive today, and placed track position above all else. I don't know why they didn't pit Lewis under VSC earlier in the race.
He wouldn't have been able to defend in the situation they contrived. He may have done if Max had had to clear the lapped cars in the middle, as the rules state. Or if they'd let the lapped cars through the race simply would've ended under safety car.
The frustration is the 'making the rules up purely in the name of entertainment'. Lewis was the stronger driver for 57.5 laps, although has probably not been the stronger all season long. Max just comes across as an unpleasant chap; I'd sooner see a lot of other drivers have taken the championship.
It is difficult to be unbiased if a Dutch driver wins but I can understand how people feel about Max.
But to be honest I've lost my sympathy for Toto Wulf the last two races.
And big compliments to Lewis for his reaction after the race!!
Jan
Quote from: njee20 on December 12, 2021, 08:56:21 PM
It's definitely true that they were hyper defensive today, and placed track position above all else. I don't know why they didn't pit Lewis under VSC earlier in the race.
He wouldn't have been able to defend in the situation they contrived. He may have done if Max had had to clear the lapped cars in the middle, as the rules state. Or if they'd let the lapped cars through the race simply would've ended under safety car.
The frustration is the 'making the rules up purely in the name of entertainment'. Lewis was the stronger driver for 57.5 laps, although has probably not been the stronger all season long. Max just comes across as an unpleasant chap; I'd sooner see a lot of other drivers have taken the championship.
Valid point made. BUT! Why were ALL the lapped cars not allowed to pass before the race resumed? That always a procedure before why not this race?
That's what I'm saying; perhaps clearer if I'd said "or if they'd let ALL the lapped cars through the race simply would've ended under the safety car". The rules say that if lapped cars unlap themselves (it's not a given), then racing resumes on the lap after the last car has passed the safety car. What happened today was that Masi first said the lapped cars would not be allowed past, then said only the 5 between Lewis and Max would be, and then racing resumed that lap. He literally made the rules up to force a situation where there would be a 1 lap fight. He created a knife fight, and handed Max a gun.
@njee20 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147)
100% agree Nick.
You won't agree with me on this one and as much as I'm not a Hamilton fan. Could there maybe be a hint of a Schumacher conspiracy not to let Lewis surpass his tally?
I'm sure that F1 didn't want another Mercedes win. Domination is boring, and I'll wager this season has more people aware of what's going on in F1 than any of the preceding 20 or so! You're right though that I can't see how Schumacher can be even vaguely involved. If Mick had stuffed it into the wall instead of Latifi perhaps...
Yep food for thought!
I don't have a copy of the rulebook to hand but believe I heard the rule states all lapped cars be allowed to pass the safety car to unlap themselves and the safety car then comes in the lap after that. If I remember correctly (I'm still fuming at the whole injustice/incompetence of the stewards) that meant the race would have finished under the safety car and Hamilton would have won.
Mercedes took the track position stance twice rather than bring Hamilton into the pits. The second time was because when Masi said no one could unlap themselves, Mercedes assumed under the rules Hamilton would win. When Masi then changed his mind and did not allow all 10 cars to pass the safety car Mercedes were hung out to dry with no chance.
There have been complaints about the way Perez held up Hamilton in order for Max to close up but I just thought it was a brilliant tactic/ piece of driving that had me on the edge of my seat. Hamilton said on the radio it was dangerous driving but I completely disagree. It's a great shame he did not have the same back up later in the season with Bottas who, to my mind, deserved no pay for this weekend
Excellent points made Mick and I make you 100% correct. :thumbsup:
I've lost all respect for F1's new management (I'd already lost all respect for Michael Mas). This race was pretty much managed and manipulated to make a 'story' rather than have a valid and fair result and now it's going to be resolved (eventually) by a well deserved lawsuit.
I'd hope it will at least result in Masi being very publicly fired as Race Director. He's hopeless.
The only comforting thought is that this is probably the last championship Red Bull will win in F1. Now they have to build their own engines from the bits Honda left behind and have no chance of attracting a new engine manufacturer after a history of toxic relations with every engine supplier they've ever had, they're going to drop behind the rest of the field as development progresses.
I have nothing against Red Bull and have admired them and their drivers over the years.
I can imagine Toto Wolff will push his complaint all the way to Paris but still think the FIA will protect their own back regardless.
Being the saddo I am, I keep a spreadsheet of who won what race since 2016 but refuse to fill in this race's winner yet
The rule is "any lapped cars" NOT ALL LAPPED CARS
Now I'm a die hard Ferrari F1 fan, I detest Lewis Hamilton and his fake points of view on EVERY worldwide topic, I'm certainly not a Max or Red Bull fan either.
Toto Wolff has behaved totally out of order for most of the season and is as bigger :censored: as his No 1 driver.
Now yes, it was farcical but the whole season has been. But for these supposed team principles to be able to cry to Masi about what "they believe " is fair is beyond a joke.
If were after conspiracy theories, Latifi stuffed it into the wall on dirty rear tyres, Mercedes powered team! Was the plan to crash in the hope or belief that they would finish the race behind the safety car giving Hamilton another title!
Last season wasnt really a season with 2 races held at the same track and how many races missing????
Can Hamilton really see that as a fair season to of claimed his seventh title? Would he really want to win his eighth in the stewards office??
Off course he would because he believes he does no wrong. F1 under Liberties ownership is absolutely horrendous, nothing to do with being the pinnacle of motorsport just a money making engineered farce!!!
Well, the lawyers are into it now.
Merc is preparing to sue Masi personally, and the FIA, Liberty Media etc. for damages.
The reaction I'm seeing at Merc right now reminds me of Toyota back in the mid-90's era of the World Rally Championship.
They had some very clever technology on the intercooler of their turbocharger that before the start of the season they asked the FIA to give a technical ruling as to whether it was legal to use, or not. FIA agreed - in writing - that it was legal. I've personally seen the document, so I know this is an absolute fact.
Anyway, after they won nearly every event in 1995, the technology was "suddenly" ruled as illegal at the end of the season, with no appeal option available. They were banned for a year and docked every championship point they had accumulated in the 1995 season.
Toyota was so utterly disgusted with the whole affair that they just quit the sport entirely.
They switched activities over to an American series where they made a lot more money and the WRC field size dropped by about 25% in 1996 and 1997.
Imagine what would happen if Merc pulled out of F1. It's too late to design new cars around different engines at McLaren, Aston or Williams in time for next season. That's half the grid that would be sidelined. FIA may have seriously fubar'd this time.
Merc is already heavily invested in non-IC technology competitions - it is clearly the way of the future for their primary product - the car range they sell to the public.
If they feel seriously aggrieved, there really aren't a lot of solid reasons NOT to walk away from IC based motorsport entirely - and who would replace them? I don't see anyone lining up.
Merc don't *NEED* F1. But could F1 continue to prosper if Merc bail out?
I don't think the debate over this race is going to be "over" for quite some time.
Ross.
PS - I'm not really a Lewis fan. Ricciardo and Norris are my guys. But at least he's not a dirty driver like Max is. My complaint is that Masi chose to turn an 8 second dominant lead that was clearly going to secure this race and the resulting championship, into a zero seconds lead with the other guy on tires that were guaranteed to win. I'm sorry, but it simply isn't Masi's job to do anything that will clearly overturn a race and championship result in this way. If he's that crooked, he needs to stand for a seat in the US Congress.
Quote from: exmouthcraig on December 12, 2021, 10:34:25 PM
The rule is "any lapped cars" NOT ALL LAPPED CARS
I refer the Rt. Hon. Gentleman to this article, particularly the section under "What happened on the last lap"
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/athletics/news/max-verstappen-lewis-hamilton-last-lap-controversy/140ggqhx8eu481qf9dejfl2czl (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/athletics/news/max-verstappen-lewis-hamilton-last-lap-controversy/140ggqhx8eu481qf9dejfl2czl)
Quote from: exmouthcraig on December 12, 2021, 10:34:25 PM
Now I'm a die hard Ferrari F1 fan,
*Cough* secret deal with the FIA to not say what the penalty was that they got for cheating by deliberately leaking oil into their combustion for a power boost in 2019 that mysteriously left them with the lowest powered engine in 2020 *Cough*
@Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/117/5099-121221231832.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=117251)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/117/5099-121221231904.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=117252)
@zwilnik (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8) yeah, but that has nothing to do with this years farce. Also dont be too sure Honda have just left a pile of bits for RedBull to build an engine from, they were always going to be doing this from 2022.
Merc GP had a massive cash injection from INEOS, no surprise that they throw their toys out the pram, and hand the current outfit over to them and just become an engine supplier.
The clown that runs the show can just trot 5 garages down the pit lane and run the Aston Martin team that he personally owns so much of.
Quote from: RBTKraisee on December 12, 2021, 10:41:54 PM
PS - I'm not really a Lewis fan. Ricciardo and Norris are my guys. But at least he's not a dirty driver like Max is. My complaint is that Masi chose to turn an 8 second dominant lead that was clearly going to secure this race and the resulting championship, into a zero seconds lead with the other guy on tires that were guaranteed to win. I'm sorry, but it simply isn't Masi's job to do anything that will clearly overturn a race and championship result in this way. If he's that crooked, he needs to stand for a seat in the US Congress.
You've hit the nail right bang smack on the head!
The whole season has been a mess. Sadly, today's episode is the last straw and has put me completely off watching or following F1 in future. I feel real empathy for Lewis who seems to have been let down by Mercedes in some ways in this race but more blatantly I feel the control of races this season has been appaling. Max, love him or loath him is an imature young fella that thinks being agressive and barging his way around is acceptable.
A sad day indeed for what used to be a sport.
@exmouthcraig (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5099)
I'm sure that report justifies the actions of the Race Director.
Whether it is the case or not will depend on a headbutting between the FIA, Mercedes and Red Bull. Whatever the outcome of that future meeting I suspect the result will stand as I cannot see anyone retrospectively amending the race decision with all that entails.
At the very least it shows the rules need clarifying so all understand and that all rules are applied to the word and not left open to an individual's interpretation.
On a separate note, I am furious with a certain David Coulthard who seemed to think Hamilton was in the wrong in that first lap incident. I have lost count over the years of the number of times Coulthard has said "when overtaking you must leave room for the other guy as he cannot make his car just disappear"
Verstappen made a desperate lunge and took up all the track so Hamilton had to take avoiding action. Maybe he would have been better off letting Verstappen torpedo him and hoping the stewards would dock points such that Verstappen came 2nd to him.
Absolutely brilliant result, and Michael Masi's classic riposte to Toto "its a motor race, we are car racing" sums it all up, he didn't want to finish the last race under a safety car, all credit to him. it's just sour grapes on Mercedes part.
Ian
Quote from: Newportnobby on December 13, 2021, 10:26:39 AM
@exmouthcraig (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5099)
Verstappen made a desperate lunge and took up all the track so Hamilton had to take avoiding action. Maybe he would have been better off letting Verstappen torpedo him and hoping the stewards would dock points such that Verstappen came 2nd to him.
Why? Max didn't do anything different to what LH has done to others all season, about time someone put Ham on the receiving end, roll on 2022 and hope George Russel can get the better of Hamilton then we will have less of his moaning to put up with.
2021 saw three incidents that could have, at the least put a driver in hospital, one farcical 'race' at Spa in weather that patently would never allow racing to start and started behind the Safety Car, with too little time for more than half distance to be completed before dark, purely to award points.
Far too many Stewards' decisions having little or no sense.
Having followed F1 since the 1960s, I'm done!
While Stewards have always made 'odd' decisions, there have been far too many this year. I have no wish to see any more races rigged, like the last one, or worse, a driver killed.
A sad, sad day. I wish all the drivers well for next year, but I won't be there.
@Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264), totally agree with you on DCs comments and lack of consistency, I wonder where I've heard that before!!!
ALL commentators this season have been one sided or the other, gone are the days of impartiality!!
As a kid who managed to spend alot of time around Martin Brundle I have continued to follow him through his commentary career, this year he has done nothing but blow bubbles up a certain body part of Lewis Hamilton, yet on Lap 1 he believed Max was hard done too and continued to make this point throughout the whole race, Hamilton had gained an unfair advantage and NOT GIVEN that advantage back, a certain Mr Masi told RedBull that the gained advantage had been given back and the case was closed, presumably on his way to SpecSavers!!
The magnificent days of F1 are over, for all the bad press Mr Bernie Ecclestone recieved he knew how to run a championship and yes there were controversies during his time but the paddock just seemed a nicer place to be, now it's a poison filled snake pit with everyone of them desperate for his 5mins of fame to spend it bad mouthing as many others in the paddock as is possible, and ALL the commentary teams seem to of turned the same way!!,
Quote from: exmouthcraig on December 13, 2021, 05:02:30 PMThe magnificent days of F1 are over, for all the bad press Mr Bernie Ecclestone recieved he knew how to run a championship and yes there were controversies during his time but the paddock just seemed a nicer place to be
Yeah, in those days they were consistent in the bias towards the red Italian cars and everyone knew it... this year it's been totally inconsistent who has benefited from the odd decisions and no one's sure whether it's bias or incompetence... ::) :-\
With each season there is always going to be controversy in F1
The biggest for me was the coming together of Hill and Schumacher in the 1994 Australian Grand Prix!
Yep, still that Hill should be a double world champion lol. Thus is life!
Best wishes and merry Christmas to you all.
Simon