N Gauge Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Adam1701D on April 20, 2021, 09:12:32 AM

Title: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Adam1701D on April 20, 2021, 09:12:32 AM
Electra Rail is currently suspended following a slight mishap with the vinyl printer.

After doing a heavy head clean, I re-inserted the power cable, forgetting the printer switch was still on. Cue big bang, tripped power and lots of swearing.

I've changed the fuse in the mains plug but this has not worked - the machine is as dead as the proverbial dodo. Not a sign of power anywhere.

Luckily it is designed to be opened easily, so I have had a look inside. There are two small fuses on the power distribution board that look like candidates for swapping out.

EDIT: A quick google slows these F6 fuses as readily available - set ordered for delivery tomorrow!

(https://scontent.fbhx3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/176084953_409479050138986_5736798267362559879_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Ek68FBnR-qYAX-KBLxI&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx3-1.fna&oh=ce3f1107636a1f84e653dfc71a764793&oe=60A2DD6D)

(https://scontent.fbhx3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/175993413_409671076786450_471147864279356091_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=ylqp4pBRjK0AX_LUj4x&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx3-1.fna&oh=c75e80ed91e7731806b6e749f9efe32a&oe=60A42D33)

Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Ali Smith on April 20, 2021, 09:26:05 AM
Good luck, hope that sorts it.
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Bealman on April 20, 2021, 09:27:16 AM
No other signs of smoke inside? If not, you have probably escaped!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Fardap on April 20, 2021, 10:36:12 AM
Quote from: captainelectra on April 20, 2021, 09:12:32 AM
Electra Rail is currently suspended following a slight mishap with the vinyl printer.

After doing a heavy head clean, I re-inserted the power cable, forgetting the printer switch was still on. Cue big bang, tripped power and lots of swearing.

I've changed the fuse in the mains plug but this has not worked - the machine is as dead as the proverbial dodo. Not a sign of power anywhere.

Luckily it is designed to be opened easily, so I have had a look inside. There are two small fuses on the power distribution board that look like candidates for swapping out.

EDIT: A quick google slows these F6 fuses as readily available - set ordered for delivery tomorrow!

(https://scontent.fbhx3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/176084953_409479050138986_5736798267362559879_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Ek68FBnR-qYAX-KBLxI&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx3-1.fna&oh=ce3f1107636a1f84e653dfc71a764793&oe=60A2DD6D)

(https://scontent.fbhx3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/175993413_409671076786450_471147864279356091_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=ylqp4pBRjK0AX_LUj4x&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx3-1.fna&oh=c75e80ed91e7731806b6e749f9efe32a&oe=60A42D33)

Visually they seem to be okay - seems to be a fine wire down the middle but not 100% - do you have a multimeter/continuity tester? Just pop them out and check if they are open or short (should be short) to confirm if they are blown.

Also I assume there is not a fuse adjacent to the mains socket connection - sometimes they have a screw in fuse there as well.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Malc on April 20, 2021, 10:42:23 AM
I agree with @Fardap (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5581) . Those fuses look OK. I have seen fuses as part of the IEC mains socket, if not, you may have popped a capacitor in the switched mode power supply. This is likely if you heard a loud bang.
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Bealman on April 20, 2021, 10:42:46 AM
I'm thinking of other components, like capacitors in the power supply. Are they black, or burst tops? Any brown resistors?

If it's all clean, then hopefully it's just the fuses.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: PaulCheffus on April 20, 2021, 11:06:05 AM
Quote from: Fardap on April 20, 2021, 10:36:12 AM
Quote from: captainelectra on April 20, 2021, 09:12:32 AM
Electra Rail is currently suspended following a slight mishap with the vinyl printer.

After doing a heavy head clean, I re-inserted the power cable, forgetting the printer switch was still on. Cue big bang, tripped power and lots of swearing.

I've changed the fuse in the mains plug but this has not worked - the machine is as dead as the proverbial dodo. Not a sign of power anywhere.

Luckily it is designed to be opened easily, so I have had a look inside. There are two small fuses on the power distribution board that look like candidates for swapping out.

EDIT: A quick google slows these F6 fuses as readily available - set ordered for delivery tomorrow!

(https://scontent.fbhx3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/176084953_409479050138986_5736798267362559879_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Ek68FBnR-qYAX-KBLxI&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx3-1.fna&oh=ce3f1107636a1f84e653dfc71a764793&oe=60A2DD6D)

(https://scontent.fbhx3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/175993413_409671076786450_471147864279356091_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=ylqp4pBRjK0AX_LUj4x&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx3-1.fna&oh=c75e80ed91e7731806b6e749f9efe32a&oe=60A42D33)

Visually they seem to be okay - seems to be a fine wire down the middle but not 100% - do you have a multimeter/continuity tester? Just pop them out and check if they are open or short (should be short) to confirm if they are blown.

Also I assume there is not a fuse adjacent to the mains socket connection - sometimes they have a screw in fuse there as well.

Good luck.

Hi

Surely open if blown. If you get a short then the fuse is intact.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: zwilnik on April 20, 2021, 11:39:35 AM
Quote from: Bealman on April 20, 2021, 10:42:46 AM
I'm thinking of other components, like capacitors in the power supply. Are they black, or burst tops? Any brown resistors?

If it's all clean, then hopefully it's just the fuses.  :thumbsup:
Given the loud bang, this sounds likely to me too. Blown capacitors have a very unique smell that you'd notice right away.
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Fardap on April 20, 2021, 12:43:23 PM
Quote from: PaulCheffus on April 20, 2021, 11:06:05 AM
Quote from: Fardap on April 20, 2021, 10:36:12 AM
Quote from: captainelectra on April 20, 2021, 09:12:32 AM
Electra Rail is currently suspended following a slight mishap with the vinyl printer.

After doing a heavy head clean, I re-inserted the power cable, forgetting the printer switch was still on. Cue big bang, tripped power and lots of swearing.

I've changed the fuse in the mains plug but this has not worked - the machine is as dead as the proverbial dodo. Not a sign of power anywhere.

Luckily it is designed to be opened easily, so I have had a look inside. There are two small fuses on the power distribution board that look like candidates for swapping out.

EDIT: A quick google slows these F6 fuses as readily available - set ordered for delivery tomorrow!

(https://scontent.fbhx3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/176084953_409479050138986_5736798267362559879_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Ek68FBnR-qYAX-KBLxI&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx3-1.fna&oh=ce3f1107636a1f84e653dfc71a764793&oe=60A2DD6D)

(https://scontent.fbhx3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/175993413_409671076786450_471147864279356091_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=ylqp4pBRjK0AX_LUj4x&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx3-1.fna&oh=c75e80ed91e7731806b6e749f9efe32a&oe=60A42D33)

Visually they seem to be okay - seems to be a fine wire down the middle but not 100% - do you have a multimeter/continuity tester? Just pop them out and check if they are open or short (should be short) to confirm if they are blown.

Also I assume there is not a fuse adjacent to the mains socket connection - sometimes they have a screw in fuse there as well.

Good luck.

Hi

Surely open if blown. If you get a short then the fuse is intact.

Cheers

Paul

Correct which is what I said? (Should be short) [if good] :-)
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: PaulCheffus on April 20, 2021, 02:22:51 PM
Quote from: Fardap on April 20, 2021, 12:43:23 PM
Correct which is what I said? (Should be short) [if good] :-)

Hi

Ah I misread your comment

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Fardap on April 21, 2021, 12:02:35 PM
Quote from: captainelectra on April 20, 2021, 09:12:32 AM

I've changed the fuse in the mains plug but this has not worked - the machine is as dead as the proverbial dodo. Not a sign of power anywhere.

Any news on this - fingers crossed...

One thought not sure of the setup but have you tried something else in that mains socket outlet the printer was plugged into - just to be sure it is providing power?
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Adam1701D on April 21, 2021, 12:17:06 PM
I've plugged into a different socket but still no joy.

Had a support call from Roland yesterday advising the issue is likely to be in the man power board, so have a direction to start looking. Looks like I may need a replacement module which may set me back a a couple of hundred.
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Adam1701D on April 24, 2021, 09:12:25 PM
Good news! After extensive technical support, testing of the main power boards, the printer is now working again.

Solution? I found another kettle lead power cable in the garage and thought that there would be no harm in giving it a try. By George, it worked!

Test print done and all looks good. What a relief!



Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: ntpntpntp on April 24, 2021, 09:48:07 PM
I thought the plug fuse on the kettle lead was one of the first things you checked?
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: zwilnik on April 24, 2021, 10:04:37 PM
Quote from: ntpntpntp on April 24, 2021, 09:48:07 PM
I thought the plug fuse on the kettle lead was one of the first things you checked?

He did say he changed the fuse, but Murphy's law states that the first spare fuse you replace a blown one with will always be faulty.
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: N_GaugeModeller on April 25, 2021, 08:39:23 AM
It was probably the cable in the mains lead that went bang, which was why changing the fuse made no difference.

I have some "Kettle Leads" that have such thin conductive wires that I doubt they could supply an amp let alone 13. Good old China and their high quality products on eBay ;)
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Bealman on April 26, 2021, 03:04:50 AM
Yes, I bought a mains powered signal generator from China, and there have been multiple reports of full mains voltage on the signal outputs!  :uneasy:
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Fardap on April 26, 2021, 08:56:29 AM
Quote from: N_GaugeModeller on April 25, 2021, 08:39:23 AM
It was probably the cable in the mains lead that went bang, which was why changing the fuse made no difference.

I have some "Kettle Leads" that have such thin conductive wires that I doubt they could supply an amp let alone 13. Good old China and their high quality products on eBay ;)

Would also explain the lack of that lovely component burnt/blown smell that would surely have been reported initially.
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Adam1701D on April 26, 2021, 09:05:05 AM
I know what to look for next time. Never realised the whole cable could blow out like that after changing the fuse about a dozen times.
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Fardap on April 26, 2021, 09:10:04 AM
At least it was pretty much the cheapest option for failure though!

Cables do age and as mentioned some are better than others, never a good idea to go cheap where mains is concerned (not that I think you did) - but also kinks, bends and trapped cables can break down internally
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: ntpntpntp on April 26, 2021, 12:52:13 PM
I must admit I've never encountered a kettle lead failure.  All the ones I have for PC gear and guitar amplifiers etc. are thick and strong. 
Title: Re: Help! I've blown up my printer.
Post by: Malc on April 26, 2021, 01:08:18 PM
I must have installed many hundreds of IEC leads and only had 2 or 3 failures. When I investigated by cutting into the moulded ends, it was the crimping on the socket that had failed.