Ive managed to acquire a few models of BR Mk1 Pullman 1st & 2nd Parlours and Kitchen Cars in Umber & Cream, but can't find a Pullman Brake to go with them.
It would appear from my surfing Google that there wasn't one, in which case what sort of Brake would have been used, would it have been a standard Mk1 or maybe one inherited from one of the big 4?
Any advice or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Ray
This site: http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/proto_pullman.html (http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/proto_pullman.html) lists a formation containg a Mk1 BG .
Thanks @railsquid (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3832) a very interesting site, will have a good look at it later.
Ray
This has been discussed before at some length on the Forum-try the search facility to find it.
Generally, it was accepted to use the 'Poole' Farish Pullman brake.
Martyn
see:
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41174.0 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41174.0)
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=36333.0 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=36333.0)
In short, there never was a Prototype Brake vehicle of that type. Either an older Pullman Brake or a Mk1 vehicle (BFK or a BG) was used. This could be Marooon or a 'borrowed' Western region Brown/cream liveried coach.
Farish did a Colectors Club special of a MK1 BFK in Pullman livery, which some use. That is an accurate model of a one-off Preservation era fake. (then got slated by the uneducated for not producing more than one!) ::)
The Farish ones pop up on EvilBay regularly, but often go for stupid money, £80 to £100 is not uncommon.
NGM
BR never produced a Mk 1 Pullman Brake, initially using K-type Brake Seconds. The weren't enough of those, so I believe that they converted some K-type Parlour Seconds to make up the numbers. I have been lobbying for someone to come up with K-types, notably NGS, Revolution and Simon Dawson at Rue d'Etropal. No luck yet, but a few more voices could help.... :D
Another option for you is a Mk1 BG in western region chocolate and cream livery. 2 of these were actually hijacked by the SR to run with their pullman trains, much to the WR's annoyance. Control at Paddington was apparently very annoyed to receive a pair of tatty Maroon Mk1 BGs instead of their chocolate and cream ones. The SR was careful to keep them off WR metals for several years. :D
(https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Raynes_Park_Bournemouth_Belle_geograph-2966169-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg)
(https://www.kentrail.org.uk/Bournemouth_Belle_1965.jpg)
Also it was not uncommon to see the Bournemouth Belle topped and tailed by maroon or green brakes.
(https://sremg.org.uk/misc/pics/mm_34087_bb.jpg)
Very interesting snippets of information. Thanks for posting! :thumbsup:
I run my rake of umber & cream Mk 1 Pullman cars with a maroon Mk 1 BG at one end and a maroon Thompson BG at the other. No idea whether this is prototypical but it looks good to me. (Rule 1 always comes in handy in these situations.)
PW
Thanks for that @Karhedron (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=207) I just like the idea of SR pinching a couple of brakes, I shall model that approach.
Ray
Quote from: PennineWagons on February 20, 2021, 12:31:18 AM
I run my rake of umber & cream Mk 1 Pullman cars with a maroon Mk 1 BG at one end and a maroon Thompson BG at the other. No idea whether this is prototypical but it looks good to me. (Rule 1 always comes in handy in these situations.)
PW
Can't help with the umber'n'cream, but here's a maroon Mk 1 BG: https://flic.kr/p/hxdxXV
Like karhedron 's photos but those wishing to model the belmond pullman repainted mk2d is used https://www.dawlishbeach.com/2019/05/belmond-british-pullman-2/ (https://www.dawlishbeach.com/2019/05/belmond-british-pullman-2/) A current list of pullman charter coaches can be found here http://www.railtourinfo.co.uk/coach.html (http://www.railtourinfo.co.uk/coach.html) Good I may pinch a mk 1 in maroon too when I model a charter train
Quote from: Stuart Down Under on February 15, 2021, 10:33:42 PM
BR never produced a Mk 1 Pullman Brake, initially using K-type Brake Seconds. The weren't enough of those, so I believe that they converted some K-type Parlour Seconds to make up the numbers. I have been lobbying for someone to come up with K-types, notably NGS, Revolution and Simon Dawson at Rue d'Etropal. No luck yet, but a few more voices could help.... :D
I've mentioned the K-type to Bachmann on a few occasions; you never know, they might just be round the corner--such is their new 'announcement' system which doesn't give much time for financial planning!
Another possibility for the preservation era is the Bluebell Railway's Stove-R which they painted in Pullman livery to run with their preserved pullman coaches.
(http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/cw_news/cwn-pic2/bgz/bgz_7feb09_2791h.jpg)
The N Gauge society have produced this in N-gauge. Not historically accurate but looks nice for either the Preservation era or just Rule 1 running. ;)
(https://images.hattons.co.uk/products/NGSSTOVER7-LN02_3331333_Qty1_2.jpg)
Quote from: crepello on February 20, 2021, 04:22:37 PM
I've mentioned the K-type to Bachmann on a few occasions; you never know, they might just be round the corner--such is their new 'announcement' system which doesn't give much time for financial planning!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Quote from: crepello on February 20, 2021, 04:22:37 PM
I've mentioned the K-type to Bachmann on a few occasions; you never know, they might just be round the corner--such is their new 'announcement' system which doesn't give much time for financial planning!
It's nice to dream that something might eventuate. Unfortunately something that detailed, and relatively unique, by the time they come out, would be around 65 quid each.
Quote from: crepello on February 20, 2021, 04:22:37 PM
I've mentioned the K-type to Bachmann on a few occasions; you never know, they might just be round the corner--such is their new 'announcement' system which doesn't give much time for financial planning!
Maybe we should be asking Hornby to make them! They have done the research already for 00 and they have shown willing to produce the Brighton Belle. Perhaps they would be up for it under the Arnold brand. Surely there would be a bigger demand for these coaches than for the Belle. :-\
This thread seems to have gone into the realms of fantasy. To bring it back to where it started, we were talking about Mark one Pullmans, which the Brighton and Bournemouth Belles were not, so here is a shot of the Tees Tyne Pullman with Mark Ones and the brake used by the Eastern Region. Interestingly the brakes in this case were not the only older style Pullmans included in the rake.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43528985@N04/31563482207/in/photolist-Q6a6B6-2ksfAhy-2j2C2Ds-2jcZ3Gb-2iXpCdZ-eaewb4-2hZaf5u-c1iaxm-2jG6EtH-Ah4j8d-2jZtswG-2iXev1X-KGWjWB-2iVdX8G-ckKyqG-L3WwdF-HxBzaJ-r5X5i6-26iqMzK-ZGnKsE-xgDsqm-2iVin6T-2933K7s-2jPgLZR-2hYjoyr-hxdxXV-226QWEy-2gd2KZh-JAaE1Q-ds61ow-pTiiK8-6SqhR2-ds5SPz-eW36Fe-nU3337-CDmZUL-9SCko7-cwfFmL-28zXmTg-C6WTXQ-PxWQ5z-2i21A1C-MVwxyM-C9xuEZ-Zh7NEA-qUkBNG-9CWhGX-o5dzye-RkZ1ow-6HSn2M (https://www.flickr.com/photos/43528985@N04/31563482207/in/photolist-Q6a6B6-2ksfAhy-2j2C2Ds-2jcZ3Gb-2iXpCdZ-eaewb4-2hZaf5u-c1iaxm-2jG6EtH-Ah4j8d-2jZtswG-2iXev1X-KGWjWB-2iVdX8G-ckKyqG-L3WwdF-HxBzaJ-r5X5i6-26iqMzK-ZGnKsE-xgDsqm-2iVin6T-2933K7s-2jPgLZR-2hYjoyr-hxdxXV-226QWEy-2gd2KZh-JAaE1Q-ds61ow-pTiiK8-6SqhR2-ds5SPz-eW36Fe-nU3337-CDmZUL-9SCko7-cwfFmL-28zXmTg-C6WTXQ-PxWQ5z-2i21A1C-MVwxyM-C9xuEZ-Zh7NEA-qUkBNG-9CWhGX-o5dzye-RkZ1ow-6HSn2M)
Quote from: crepello on February 20, 2021, 04:22:37 PM
Quote from: Stuart Down Under on February 15, 2021, 10:33:42 PM
BR never produced a Mk 1 Pullman Brake, initially using K-type Brake Seconds. The weren't enough of those, so I believe that they converted some K-type Parlour Seconds to make up the numbers. I have been lobbying for someone to come up with K-types, notably NGS, Revolution and Simon Dawson at Rue d'Etropal. No luck yet, but a few more voices could help.... :D
I've mentioned the K-type to Bachmann on a few occasions; you never know, they might just be round the corner--such is their new 'announcement' system which doesn't give much time for financial planning!
Hi @crepello (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2994)
That would be great but remember there is also Dapol and even Rapido UK...
Kind regards
Paddy
Thanks @honk843 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1116) judging by that photo I might well be justified in running an old style PFK "Falcon" with a white roof in my rake along with the borrowed West Region brakes.
Ray
On a thread about a year ago, I gave examples of (mainly) ECML Pullmans and the brake coaches used.
Unfortunately I can't find thread, but it should be searchable.
Also note PLDs replies in the links given early in this thread.
Martyn
If you are interested in Pullmans in general, you might try this link:
https://sremg.org.uk/coach/coupe/index.shtml (https://sremg.org.uk/coach/coupe/index.shtml).
There is a series of newsletters that cover many aspects of Pullman operations.
Peter
In 1965 W Churchill's funeral train was made up of Pullman stock with brake cars 208 and Isle of Thanet at each end.
Best regards,
Joe
Quote from: joe cassidy on February 21, 2021, 04:38:47 PM
In 1965 W Churchill's funeral train was made up of Pullman stock with brake cars 208 and Isle of Thanet at each end.
Best regards,
Joe
Car 208 is a 1927 Parlour third, not a Brake vehicle.
Isle of Thanet is a 1925 built Brake.
Neither were mk1 Pullmans as we're discussing here...
I was just trying to give an example of a train with Mk1 pullman cars and earlier pullman brakes.
1960 Master Cutler; four 1st Class Mk1 Pullmans between two K-type brakes! :D