Saw this quote on another railway forum, found it a quite amusing even accurate desription, however methinks Newport Nobby may have a different opinion.
QuoteAmerican footbrawl, alternatively American foolball
(Personally I think it applies to all versions of football, especially in these days of overpaid prima donnas; says me taking cover in a slit trench and donning tin hat))
I much prefer gridiron to soccer but do watch the World Cup when it's on.
I think it was @EtchedPixels (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=222) who quoted
Football - two teams of 11 players rolling around pretending it hurts
Rugby - two teams of 15 players running around pretending it doesn't
You should try watching my team, Swindown Town, now that hurts :'(
Then don 't do it!
The quote I always remember is:
"Football - a game designed for Gentlemen played by thugs, Rugby - a game designed for thugs played by gentlemen"
;) ;) ;) ;)
Cheers
Neal.
Quote from: Trainfish on February 10, 2021, 12:54:09 PM
You should try watching my team, Swindown Town, now that hurts :'(
Spent many a Saturday at the County ground in the early 80s, especially remember doing the double over Bristol Rovers one season and a 7-0 win over Aldershot in the cup :D
Also seem to remember a very steep climb to the top of the stand.
Would that have been 4th division days @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262) ?
at school played rugby, with the proper shaped ball :P
initially played at scrum half, but soon found out that it meant every scrum that we got the ball out, I'd get buried under hulking great forwards ... :'(
so, managed to move to wing forward, more of me being on top of the other scrum half, though you still got buried on a regular basis.
no acting requirements for rugby, unlike football >:D
Quote from: Lawrence on February 10, 2021, 02:24:41 PM
Quote from: Trainfish on February 10, 2021, 12:54:09 PM
You should try watching my team, Swindown Town, now that hurts :'(
Spent many a Saturday at the County ground in the early 80s, especially remember doing the double over Bristol Rovers one season and a 7-0 win over Aldershot in the cup :D
Also seem to remember a very steep climb to the top of the stand.
Would that have been 4th division days @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262) ?
Indeed it was the 4th division in those days. We got a record 102 points in 1986 under Super Lou Macari. I'm guessing you mean the North Stand as Shrivvy Road was still 2 tiers back then if I remember correctly although the top tier was deemed unsafe so was closed. I remember Roger Malone from HTV going up the scaffold tower to do his commentary and we took away the ladder once. It got tied at the top after that ::)
I've watched Bristol City probably 1500 times since the age of 9 so 57 years and I'm still a season ticket holder to this day despite now living some 170 miles away.
Over the years I've visited about 75 different grounds around the country and spent way too much money but, I've witnessed some truly, truly memorable games plus, of course, many forgettable ones.
I also played football to Western League level and continued to play 5 a side till I was 54 so football is well and truly in my blood.
Unfortunately, due to Covid, I haven't been to a live game since early March 2020 (home to Fulham) and miss it so much. Match day means that I can combine my love of train travel (Redruth to Temple Meads) with my love of the game.
And.....talking of Swindon, I've stood on the Stratton Bank a few times in the pouring rain.
Whatever happened to that clock by the way?
As for rugby, I've tried hard many times to get into it (even been to a couple of games) but it just does nothing for me. I can't get excited about it I'm afraid despite Bristol (who share Ashton Gate with Bristol City) being top of their Premier League.
@Lawrence (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=16) . I'm pleased that you have such good memories of doing the double over Bristol Rovers :claphappy:
I shall, of course, be watching on the ipad tonight - Sheffield Utd v Bristol City in the FACup.
Come on you Reds :D (except they'll be wearing the purple and lime away kit tonight).
Brings back memories, I used to follow Swindon Town in the early Seventies when I lived there. They told me one of the stands was an ex-wartime aircraft hangar - I don't know how authentic that is.
I'm amused by the "holier-than-thou" Rugby comments in this thread re feigning injury. I don't think Footballers have ever resorted to such extreme as using blood capsules to pretend to be hurt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodgate
I'm probably not far off that attendance figure even though I haven't been regularly for a few years. I only ever had a season ticket once, when we were in the Premier League and that was just to make sure I got a ticket for each game (including away games), I missed 2 away games that season. How many Premier League games have you seen at Trashton Gate? Oh :doh:
I used to go home and away for years, Halifax and Middlesbrough on cold Tuesday nights spring to mind. Away to Newcastle on a football special which broke down 3 times on the way there and we only saw 50 minutes of the game but Newcastle waited for us before scoring their 5 goals. Driving/sliding to Aldershot in the snow only to find the game had been called off. Being pushed off a train at Temple Meads by a kind BTP officer and losing a tooth on our way back from Hillsbrough..........
Back to Trashton Gate and being forced across the away end by a horse's arse after we thrashed you 4-0 in 1991 (I've got the video if you want a copy, erm, the video is of the game not me being forced across the terraces by the horse's arse), those were the days.
I was in the City end when you got beaten 3-0 by the gas at Trumpton in about 1990? Joe Jordan was the manager but not for long after that if I remember correctly. The stadium announcer was either sacked or suspended that day after making an inappropriate comment over the tannoy regarding Junior Bent when he came on as a substitute.
I used to work away from home, in the UK, in the 1980's and 1990's and regularly went to neutral games, Cambridge quite often, Leicester, Villa, Derby (Baseball Ground) so have been to most grounds. I really should make a list. I reckon I've been to more than the famed 92 if you include clubs who have moved home.
Rugby? I'm the same as you. I've tried watching it, both Union and League, live and on TV but it doesn't do it for me either. I do watch the England games at the World Cups though :thumbsup:
Quote from: OffshoreAlan on February 10, 2021, 03:46:07 PM
Brings back memories, I used to follow Swindon Town in the early Seventies when I lived there. They told me one of the stands was an ex-wartime aircraft hangar - I don't know how authentic that is.
I'm amused by the "holier-than-thou" Rugby comments in this thread re feigning injury. I don't think Footballers have ever resorted to such extreme as using blood capsules to pretend to be hurt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodgate
I think you're referring to the South Stand, Shrivenham Road, the 2 tiered stand I mentioned earlier. It was actually from a military tattoo in the 1960's, Aldershot I think.
Quote from: class37025 on February 10, 2021, 02:34:09 PM
at school played rugby, with the proper shaped ball :P
THIS (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/ball) is the definition of a ball. Not an oversized egg! :veryangry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_ball
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsoid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_football
I'd have more time, both figuratively and literally, if American Football games could be played in, say, 1 hour and 20 minutes, rather than the 4 hours that is typical.
I'll quite happily sit in the cold and wet watching BWFC lose again, because I'm only there for 2 hours max.
I watched a college game here in Fort Collins in the snow with no cover, and after two hours wanted to shoot the bloke in the red jacket who kept holding up the game for TV adverts.
John P
Hi @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262)
Thanks for that amusing little post.
I well remember that game at Trumpton (Twerton Park). It was one of the darkest days of my City watching career.
And yes, the announcer was sacked after those remarks regarding Junior Bent who, incidentally, scored against Swindle Town in about 1989 at AG. He ran virtually the entire length of the pitch before slotting home - 10 seconds into the second half I think.
I have only ever seen two neutral games live in my life but one was Swindon's League Cup win at Wembley. Don Rogers was a great player and still managed to show his magic on the Wembley mud bath (I believe that the Horse of the Year Show had controversially been held there the week before).
Like you I have had some amusing moments when following my team but it's all good fun (mostly) including being stung on my back four times by a wasp away at Grimsby (1-1 draw).
My fondest memory of an away match was Mansfield 4 City 5 in Nov 2002. Mansfield were 4-2 up in the 88th minute but City scored 3 very late goals.
I can still see Christian Robert's winner. He let fly from about 30 yards. It was one of those shots that you knew was in the moment it left his boot. The away end absolutely erupted.
Mind you, the 1-0 win at Anfield runs it very close!
Quote from: class37025 on February 10, 2021, 04:29:45 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_ball
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsoid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_football
From your links:
1: A rugby ball is an elongated
ellipsoidal ball used in rugby football.
2: An ellipsoid is a surface that may be obtained from a sphere
by deforming it.
3: That link is just boring about egg chasing.
So in summary, a ball is spherical, an oversized egg isn't. You have been watching 30 blokes throwing and kicking an egg around :doh:
Anyone who has fond memories of Mansfield needs help :smiley-laughing: the only good thing there is the road out to North Derbyshire and to the Town with the famous Spire. :claphappy: :claphappy:
Quote from: port perran on February 10, 2021, 04:55:39 PM
Hi @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262)
Thanks for that amusing little post.
I well remember that game at Trumpton (Twerton Park). It was one of the darkest days of my City watching career. It was dark at times for me and my City mate when the advertising hoardings were thrown over our heads!
And yes, the announcer was sacked after those remarks regarding Junior Bent who, incidentally, scored against Swindle Town in about 1989 at AG. He ran virtually the entire length of the pitch before slotting home - 10 seconds into the second half I think. Thanks for that, I've been trying to forget that run from the little :poop: head for 30+ years and now you remind me about it :veryangry2:
I have only ever seen two neutral games live in my life but one was Swindon's League Cup win at Wembley. Don Rogers was a great player and still managed to show his magic on the Wembley mud bath (I believe that the Horse of the Year Show had controversially been held there the week before). I wasn't there as I was only 5 and my dad was a Leeds fan. I only started watching the Town when we moved back to the UK in 1976. Yes, Arsenal have moaned about the pitch ever since but even though I wasn't there I remind each and every one of them of March 15th 1969 :thumbsup:
Like you I have had some amusing moments when following my team but it's all good fun (mostly) including being stung on my back four times by a wasp away at Grimsby (1-1 draw).
My fondest memory of an away match was Mansfield 4 City 5 in Nov 2002. Mansfield were 4-2 up in the 88th minute but City scored 3 very late goals.
I can still see Christian Robert's winner. He let fly from about 30 yards. It was one of those shots that you knew was in the moment it left his boot. The away end absolutely erupted. It's a rarity but we loved Christian Roberts too :thumbsup:
Mind you, the 1-0 win at Anfield runs it very close!
We went slightly better after being 4-1 down at Birmingham and came back to win 6-4 :laugh:
Quote from: BramptonBranch on February 10, 2021, 05:23:24 PM
Anyone who has fond memories of Mansfield needs help :smiley-laughing: the only good thing there is the road out to North Derbyshire and to the Town with the famous Spire. :claphappy: :claphappy:
I also have fond memories of Mansfield as we took something like 26 coaches there and drew 1-1 to take the title
I'll be watching the game tonight @port perran (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=230) but my link is slightly different, my brothers' company (http://www.baylissexecutivetravel.co.uk/ (http://www.baylissexecutivetravel.co.uk/)), despite being based in Kent, supplies the team coaches for the Blades, clearly he wont be working tonight though.
@Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262) I'm assuming the Magic roundabout is still in existance in the town, I recall closing my eyes and shooting through that on my Honda 50 :o
For the record, my real team is my home team, Raith Rovers :D
Blimey, you have to be very careful how you read that link :goggleeyes:
And yes, of course, I've chased many an away fan across that :P
This looks like it may have been on a match day
(https://resize.hswstatic.com/w_907/gif/now-87bc897c-4eb4-4d2c-938d-38485e299587-1210-680.jpg)
Quote from: Lawrence on February 10, 2021, 06:01:04 PM
For the record, my real team is my home team, Raith Rovers :D
Or Roath Ravers according to Jeff Stelling :D
As John @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262) has been quite vocal on this thread, I think I'll keep shtum about last night's result :worried:.
Regarding injuries, I've played both rugby and football and I've said before on another thread that I'd rather have a 16 stone bloke rugby tackle me than a 10 stone football player swing his leg out and break mine.
Cheers, weave :beers:
PS. Play up Pompey :claphappy: Sorry John, couldn't help myself :)
Quote from: weave on February 10, 2021, 06:11:22 PM
As John @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262) has been quite vocal on this thread, I think I'll keep shtum about last night's result :worried:.
Regarding injuries, I've played both rugby and football and I've said before on another thread that I'd rather have a 16 stone bloke rugby tackle me than a 10 stone football player swing his leg out and break mine.
Cheers, weave :beers:
PS. Play up Pompey :claphappy: Sorry John, couldn't help myself :)
Pompey on the up again in the last few games after a mini slump.
Looking forward to your lot going up - I always like games against Portsmouth.
Mind you....you did get a taste of what it'll be like back in January!
Sorry Chris...had to get that in. :D
Quote from: Trainfish on February 10, 2021, 06:08:08 PM
Blimey, you have to be very careful how you read that link :goggleeyes:
And yes, of course, I've chased many an away fan across that :P
This looks like it may have been on a match day
(https://resize.hswstatic.com/w_907/gif/now-87bc897c-4eb4-4d2c-938d-38485e299587-1210-680.jpg)
I remember when that round and round about was in the design stage (I was at RAF Yatesbury) they initially experimented with whitewashed tractor tyres as "islands" the local lads had fun shifting them around overnight until the the spoil sports eventually parked a police car there.
Last night was a bit of a surprise to be honest, I thought it would be at least 4, maybe 5 or more. Sheridan is clueless and stubborn not playing some of our better players because they dared to stand up to him. Reminds me of the Andy King days when I used to run a website for STFC fans. He didn't like me for some reason :(
You've just made me go back and look at some of the stuff I put on there, here's a small collection starting off with our flag. I think this was at Jillingham (who we also hate) but I may be wrong, it was a long time ago:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/106/262-100221182812-1061871328.jpeg)
Maybe somewhere else looking at the red seats:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/106/262-100221182811-106187924.jpeg)
And a few website pictures I used. Why did Andy King hate me and tell my wife to her face that I was a twat? :(
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/106/262-100221182810-1061851164.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/106/262-100221182810-106185508.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/106/262-100221182809-1061832049.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/106/262-100221182809-1061832467.jpeg)
There are more but probably not for a family forum :D
Hi Martin @port perran (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=230) ,
And there was me going to say good luck tonight and am going to watch on BBC iplayer.
However, it was many, many years ago and Pompey lost 4-0 to Sheff Utd. at Bramall Lane but I still remember having the best meat pie I've ever had so I might change my allegiances now.
:no: Seriously, Good Luck mate :thumbsup:
Cheers, weave :beers:
Quote from: weave on February 10, 2021, 06:11:22 PM
Regarding injuries, I've played both rugby and football and I've said before on another thread that I'd rather have a 16 stone bloke rugby tackle me than a 10 stone football player swing his leg out and break mine.
Agreed, I had to retire at the tender age of 33 after having my cheekbone smashed in a pre-season Sunday League friendly. I was a keeper and went out for a 50-50 ball at the striker's feet and I lost :'(
@Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262)
That top photo is an odd one but was back in the 80s maybe?
Could be southend?
The red seats - is that a different ground?
Look at the ads - 01782 code - Stoke?
Is that the old Victoria ground?
I got blocked in there eay back when I parked in a side street and some ?????? Parked right up against my bumper!
The last game in which I played was a sort of international in Holland.
I was in the Merchant Navy, and the Seamans' Mission in Rotterdam organised a match against an Algerian ship and mine. We played, IIRC, on Feyenoord's practice ground with a Dutch League referee. Sadly, we lost 2-0 I think.
Whilst in the Merch, I also played a 'home' game against an Argentinian ship in Southampton (long before the Falklands war), against a 'Wharfies' team in Auckland, New Zealand, which we lost heavily despite having about 15 players, though not all at once, and plenty of beer; and Officers versus Ratings in Cartagena de Columbia, which was in temperatures of mid 80s; thankfully the sea was only across the road, where we all jumped in to cool down.
But that was many years ago........
Did go to Everton to watch Colchester in the FA cup, just after they had beaten Don Revie's Leeds in the previous round; the same time, same day was Liverpool, versus Spurs. So rather a lot of fans going between Lime St and the two stadiums. My first time o0n the WCML.
Martyn
Quote from: port perran on February 10, 2021, 06:42:55 PM
@Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262)
That top photo is an odd one but was back in the 80s maybe?
Could be southend?
Possibly as I've been there too but I'm still thinking Jillingham.
Quote from: port perran on February 10, 2021, 06:46:21 PM
The red seats - is that a different ground?
Look at the ads - 01782 code - Stoke?
Is that the old Victoria ground?
I got blocked in there eay back when I parked in a side street and some ?????? Parked right up against my bumper!
Good spot. Yes, I would agree with it being at Stoke.
Just a couple more I found. Do you recognise the player in the white shorts? Or any others for that matter?
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/106/262-100221184458-1061892097.jpeg)
The open top bus tour a week or so later
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/106/262-100221184458-106189958.jpeg)
And finally 1 for @port perran (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=230) I have no idea why I have that one but I do. I can't believe the cost of those phone calls at the bottom...............
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/106/262-100221184459-1061912115.jpeg)
odd
i thought i had replied to this thread.
no matter.
Just saw another descriptive word from a Kiwi,
Thugby
Now let's get one thing straight. The game of football is NOT also called soccer.
Egg chasers are liable to make this error, particularly since their excellent referee Nigel Owens is often quoted as saying "Let me introduce myself, I'm the referee. Play like adults and you'll be treated as adults, this is not soccer".
I am amused by some of the harrowing tales of the abject misery of supporting some teams in this thread. I would remind everyone though that the prize for the most mind numbingly abysmal football match ever was played between Gillingham and Barrow on the 28th February 1970.
It was a bitterly cold day with the wind blowing up the trouser legs of me and 1,914 other brave hearts who stood shivering under the corrugated tin roof sheeting of the soon to be condemned "stand".
Neither team had the first idea of what they were supposed to be doing and punters slowly drifted away throughout the afternoon. The match was decided in Barrow's favour by one of the poorest and most pathetic goals ever scored, late in the game. The asthmatic ball just about made it over the line. The agonised low moan of the few remaining souls was heart wrenching. We turned on our heels and made our way out of the ground. I swear to this day that there was no one left in the ground when the ref blew for full time.
We all swore we would never return. And by 'eck we didn't. Well, not until the next home game we didn't :)
Alec.
i remember now
i hate football
almost as much as i hate rugby.
yet my 44 y o son loves both--and still plays.
Quote from: Invicta Alec on February 10, 2021, 08:33:18 PM
................. between Gillingham and Barrow on the 28th February 1970.
Are you a Jill? I never realised we had 1 on here :D
Remember Ray McHale? :laugh3:
I hate VAR!
Quote from: Trainfish on February 10, 2021, 09:19:20 PM
Quote from: Invicta Alec on February 10, 2021, 08:33:18 PM
................. between Gillingham and Barrow on the 28th February 1970.
Are you a Jill? I never realised we had 1 on here :D
Remember Ray McHale? :laugh3:
It'll only be a few of us old bugg*rs who will remember Ray McHale now. A very popular chap around Gillingham in those days. :D
The Gills/Swindon rivalry got a bit nasty (especially for the refs) but probably wasn't as bad as the Gills/Millwall thuggery that rumbled on for decades.
Alec.
Well I remember when our manager (30 odd years ago) said we would perform better at Gillingham this season than last.
Bearing in mind we lost TEN nil he wasnt wrong.Mind we did win 1 0!
oh the irony.
Also have haooy memories of beating Swindon in the JPT at Wembley, we managed the double a trophy and relegated in the same season ::)
The same Ray Mac that played for Chesterfield early 70s?
The very same. The Jills loved him :smiley-laughing:
Remember him from his Saltergate days scored some cracking goals.Oh and the delights of that open stand at Priestfield in the cold......wonderful :no:
It was never cold in that stand, it was f*&%ing freezing!
Hi John @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262) ,
I missed your question in your earlier post re. pic no.1 as I was checking out inflation price rises at the bottom of pic no.3 purely for research purposes ;).
Chris Kamara, ex Navy boy. Good man. That's not who I phoned by the way :no:, have gone back to pic no.1 as that answer. I'm getting in a pickle here. I'll shut up.
Cheers, weave :beers:
Yes, that's Kammy. Had 2 spells at Town and was a top bloke. I met him a couple of times and he was always up for a laugh :thumbsup:
I'll believe you about the phone cost :laugh3:
Football and Railways - all up really close.
For those using FaceBook - have a look at this :
https://www.facebook.com/564564010417492/posts/1613893312151218/ (https://www.facebook.com/564564010417492/posts/1613893312151218/)
For those not using Facebook here's a YouTube version :
https://youtu.be/l96ICiMmmWA
This is a cool thread.
Football, here in Australia, has always been rugby league or Australian rules football. Real football, until recently, has always been called soccer, to differentiate between the codes.
I always remember having a place on Newbottle working man's club team, in the early seventies. You'd have to turn up for training on Sunday mornings, and I'd be the only one who did, after a Saturday night!
Likewise, at school, they'd always stick me in goal. I remember diving onto that bloody permafrost on January mornings during PE lessons.
Go through that crap again?
No thanks! ;)
Quote from: Trainfish on February 10, 2021, 10:53:57 PM
It was never cold in that stand, it was f*&%ing freezing!
Nice Indian restaurant just down the road though.
I remember a game up there where our goalie was sent off after about 30 mins. Brian Tinnion went in goal and played a blinder.
Definitely was cold that evening - and wet!
And a nice little tale of a game away at Port Vale (who play at Burslem just outside Stoke for those who are unaware).
Anyway.....it was the Saturday before Christmas.
We were allowed into the Supporter's Club bar. I bought a Christmas Raffle ticket for some reason (must have been feeling Christmasy) putting my address on the back.
Just before New Year a bottle of Bells arrived in the post.
Even though I rescued my wife from Watford and brought her back to god's own county she still has some feelings towards her old home town football club so I keep a close eye on their results as you never know what it may lead to if they win. Now I'm just looking forward to watching the Bristol City loving presenters on the HTV news on Monday :smiley-laughing:
I don't suppose you get HTV news down there do you @port perran (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=230) ? :laugh3:
Quote from: Trainfish on February 14, 2021, 02:34:13 PM
Even though I rescued my wife from Watford and brought her back to god's own county she still has some feelings towards her old home town football club so I keep a close eye on their results as you never know what it may lead to if they win. Now I'm just looking forward to watching the Bristol City loving presenters on the HTV news on Monday :smiley-laughing:
I don't suppose you get HTV news down there do you @port perran (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=230) ? :laugh3:
Thank you for that.
I watched the whole game live on Robins TV yesterday - a truly abject performance from our lot.
If you watch HTV news, watch out for the highlight - City's single attempt at goal in the 73rd minute!
By the way, we've just loaned JoJo Woolacott to Swindle Town. Had your game not been postponed yesterday, he'd likely have made his debut against the Gas.
As for Watford......what was the name of that TV programme from the 70s (I think) based in and around Vicarage Road?
I think you may be thinking of Murphy's mob?
I was in 2 minds as to whether to post this rant about the European Super League in the Angry Thread or here, so as it's just about Football I stuck it in here, and to be honest I'm surprised that nothing has been said in here about it yet, so let me be the first and here's my take on the current situation:
European Super League - Closed shop for the financially biggest clubs in Europe, 12 at the moment with another 3 waiting to join, I suspect those 3 are PSG, Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund. However they are allowing 5 other Clubs to be 'invited' to participate, quite how those 5 are chosen is up for debate but I would suspect that it'll be like the Non-League clubs used to have to apply to join the Football league, so let's say that Leicester win the EPL again they would then have to apply to join the ESL, a vote would then take place within the 15 full members for a majority to allow Leicester to join, this process would take place across all the other European Leagues. Will there be relegation?? Probably, but will one of the founding 15 be allowed to be relegated?? If so, where would they go if they've been kicked out of their relevant League?? That will be the danger to these Clubs. More so where would the Players come from?? I wonder if the current crop of players at these teams are considering their positions in the Clubs. How many of them are at any of these Clubs purely for the money?? I actually suspect not many, yes the money is good but the prospect of playing alongside top players and 'winning trophies' (unless your name is Danny Drinkwater :P :P ) or even having a better chance of playing for your Country.
Champions League - The current reforms for the UCL also goes some way to ring-fencing these financially biggest clubs, in much the same way as the ESL does. Lets take this years Premier League, if Leicester & West Ham were to finish in the Top 4 at the detriment of Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal & Spurs then under the new UCL rules, it wouldn't matter as 2 of those teams with the best European pedigree would trump Leicester & West Hams efforts over the season, I'm not sure if Leicester & West Ham would even be allowed to take part in the Europa League??
All kudos to the Leeds players last night, wearing those T-Shirts saying 'Earn it' next to the Champions League logo and 'Football is for the fans', apparently they even left some in the Liverpool dressing room for the Liverpool players to wear.
So in closing, as a Leicester fan I'd be more than happy for them to :censored: off to the ESL because it'd probably give us a better chance of winning the Premiership more often, but on the other hand, would it be a hollow victory because we've not played the 'best' teams in England and what would we get out of it as Champions??
Sorry for my lengthy diatribe.
Regards
Neal.
Summed up even better at Old Trafford I feel
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/108/262-200421112653-1087661542.jpeg)
Although the game of football holds no interest for me, the business of football I find fascinating as it seems to have its own alternative logic (e.g. The Championship is won by the 21st best team).
As far as the ESL goes, surely it really is down to the fans. If they attend matches (not so easy when they are all over Europe) and pay to watch them on telly then maybe it will survive or even prosper but if not it will fail. This is just like any other entertainment business, which is what professional sport is. Whatever happens, I am sure football will continue to be played, which is what really matters.
Personally I find it selfish and greedy which seems to be a fairly universal opinion among everybody outside the boards of those 12 clubs.
Quote from: Ali Smith on April 20, 2021, 11:36:00 AM
As far as the ESL goes, surely it really is down to the fans. If they attend matches (not so easy when they are all over Europe) and pay to watch them on telly then maybe it will survive or even prosper but if not it will fail. This is just like any other entertainment business, which is what professional sport is. Whatever happens, I am sure football will continue to be played, which is what really matters.
Ali,
To a certain degree you are right, this ESL proposal is all to satisfy the 'fans' of these big clubs, not in Europe or their home countries, but in the Far East & America where the big money is by utilising the Global reach of streaming services, I'm sure I've seen reference to the some new Sports Streaming service called DAZN being involved somewhere, who I believe is the new big thing in Boxing & MMA.
Hopefully it'll fall flat before it starts.
Cheers
Neal.
Anyone who knows me, knows I'm not the least bit interested in football. Despite the best efforts of my late grandfather, no interest at all. Many things about it I find unfathomable, but that's for another day.
All that said, what is trying to be done here is repulsive to say the least. It's just greed for the sake of greed.
I see no reason why the clubs involved can't be just kicked out of their respective leagues and competitions by their respective governing bodies.
I just think ESL and restructured CL as ideas are short-sighted folly. As others have mentioned, these ideas are structured on the revenues from global TV deals, deals that are largely fuelled by Far East betting habits. Those betting habits are facilitated by corruption and inaction in football governance IMHO. If football ever gets it's house in order and deals with corruption and dodgy financial practices, that'll lessen the Far East betting interest. Combine that with the inevitability of something else taking the interest of gamblers (particularly the criminal syndicates) and the ESL model becomes financially unsustainable.
Sadly, I do think it will happen though. The question of "will fans regularly travel to distant stadia?" has kept the handbrake on the idea for decades. But C-19 has shown that football can still offer a viable product to TV even without the fans present.
Having watched football regularly for nearly 60 years and seen my team play at least 1500 times, I can only say that this has been coming and is, in many ways saddening and deeply worrying
As others have said it is fuelled by money and by the Asian and, to a growing extent, the US markets.
In my eyes, the formation of the Premier League was a huge mistake and let me state here that I do not watch the Premier League (even though we have Sky Sports).
It seems to me that, apart from two exceptional years when Blackburn Rovers and Leicester City won it, that the top few (rich clubs) will generally be there or there about making it Very difficult for less wealthy clubs to succeed and that makes it boring.
It creates an ambition of just getting enough points to survive.
I hate the media circus that surrounds the PL and the celebrity status of often very mediocre players that it generates.
This New Venture is the next step in destroying the game that so many of us love.
I can only hope that the powers that be are strong enough to say to the six English Clubs "You leave with our blessing but you will NEVER EVER be allowed back into ANY of the domestic competitions.
Our game will be better without them.
According to the BBC:
Bayern Munich have just distanced themselves from the ESL:
15:43
Bayern Munich 'say no' to the ESL
Bayern Munich, who are the current holders of the Uefa Champions League, have released the following statement in the last hour:
FC Bayern Munich takes a closed position on the Super League. President Herbert Hainer says: "Our members and fans reject a Super League. It is our wish as FC Bayern and our goal that the European clubs live this wonderful and emotional Champions League competition and develop it together with UEFA. FC Bayern says no to the Super League. "
The chairman of the board Karl-Heinz Rummenigge confirms: "On behalf of the board I can expressly state that FC Bayern does not take part in the Super League. FC Bayern stands in solidarity with the Bundesliga. It was and is always a great pleasure for us to be able to play as the German representative in the Champions League. We all still fondly remember our Champions League victory in Lisbon in 2020, such a happy moment is never forgotten. For FC Bayern, the Champions League is the best club competition in the world."
Oh and as far as TV rights are concerned, Sky & Amazon Prime have just confirmed that they've not been involved in any discussions around the ESL. (In other words they're a tad annoyed their not going to make any money out of this)
Cheers
Neal.
Bayern, Dortmund and PSG as far as I know @Calnefoxile (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=619) and no doubt others, given PSG are one of the richest teams in the world, it seems they at least have some decency.
The banner above says it all, but it is a different game these days, on and off the pitch, fans can burn scarves, return season tickets, boycott the club but there will be plenty to take their place.
I thought an away game at Inverness was a pain to get to, now fans from Manchester could be flying to Spain and Italy for away matches, now that is silly and expensive.
I think they are trying to emulate american football where 3 day trips for away games are not uncommon.
As an aside, I note Rangers and Celtic have not been mentioned, no doubt their collective noses will be right out of joint ;D ;D
Quote from: Lawrence on April 20, 2021, 04:30:28 PM
As an aside, I note Rangers and Celtic have not been mentioned, no doubt their collective noses will be right out of joint ;D ;D
Lawrence,
It has been noted that Celtic & Rangers were not even considered for inclusion, even though in attaining European Competition terms they've been more successful than most of the English Clubs mentioned, however they've not actually won anything for such a long time and, I suspect, for that reason they've not been included.
Cheers
Neal.
Good to see Bayern declaring against the ESL. I note that the DSL's 50+1 rule states that clubs will not be allowed to participate in the Bundesliga if commercial investors hold more than a 49 per cent stake. That means a club's members - the fans - retain the majority ownership stake. A commendable ownership model. One we'll never see - when I last looked ~2017, a single Arsenal share was valued at £17,750!
Good also to see high profile figures, in and out of football, commenting against this today: Bojo, Prince William, Jamie Carragher.
Quote from: Calnefoxile on April 20, 2021, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: Lawrence on April 20, 2021, 04:30:28 PM
As an aside, I note Rangers and Celtic have not been mentioned, no doubt their collective noses will be right out of joint ;D ;D
Lawrence,
It has been noted that Celtic & Rangers were not even considered for inclusion, even though in attaining European Competition terms they've been more successful than most of the English Clubs mentioned, however they've not actually won anything for such a long time and, I suspect, for that reason they've not been included.
Cheers
Neal.
I know Neal, absolutely hilarious, they are so up themselves though, and they have ruined football here in Scotland, something akin to what the ESL will do in England, Spain and Italy
Just to add my 2¢ to the Super League debate, although there are still a lot of moving parts I find it quite ironic how hypocritical a lot of the talking heads are being.
Sky Sports have declared that they "passionately articulate the the views of football fans on the importance of preserving and sustaining the entire football pyramid", conveniently overlooking the fact that they probably started the whole mess in the first place by bidding a then eye-watering amount of money for the rights to the "breakaway" Premier League back in 1993.
The likes of Gary Neville spouting his "the game's gone" rhetoric, conveniently clutching a Sky microphone and bleating from behind the Sky paywall.
UEFA themselves announced yesterday changes to the Champion's League which includes the idea of allowing teams into the competition based a "coefficient" of performance over the past five years. This at the behest of the Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli who wanted to be sure that Juve were never excluded from the tournament. The changes also included a huge restructuring of the early rounds the so-called "Swiss System" and expecting all clubs to play eight more games in order to "qualify" for the final elimination rounds; the change all but guarantees that none of the main attractions would not make it through to the round of 16 (unlike Manchester United this year who fell at the group stage).
It has been overlooked in all the hot air and mud-slinging that no-one is currently suggesting that the clubs are going to withdraw from their domestic leagues, they simply want to play in a "Champions League" format that suits them better. The number of times UEFA have messed around with the European tournaments to milk as much out of them as they can is impossible to count, and it's sheer hypocrisy for them to be criticising the Super League cabal for essentially doing the same thing.
The threat of players not being selected by their national teams also rings empty - do you really think that a top player would turn down the opporunity to play for one of those clubs because it meant that he wouldn't be able to play in the Nation's Cup, or have to listen to Gareth Southgate trying to explain why he's playing a back four and two defensive midfielders against the likes of Gibraltar?
And don't even get me started on the eternal hypocrite Boris Johnson suddenly getting interested in a populist bandwagon he can try and jump on.
It'll all fall apart for now, but the idea won't go away, it'll just be handled an awful lot better then next time it gets announced.
OK, maybe that was 4¢
You make some good points there @LASteve (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6889) . Except I feel your being unkind to my idol Boris.... name me a politician that doesn't jump on a popular bandwagon when one rolls up!
It's all a bit Kerry Packer.
Man City have now withdrawn, Bayern also withdrawn, Chelsea about to follow allegedly. Surely they all agreed to join in the first place didn't they? I still believe it will happen one day but not just yet. Hopefully. If clubs do join the ESL then kick them out of the domestic leagues. They may think again then.
Barcelona. Bayern were never part of the proposal, nor any Bundesliga team. A major part of the reason there is that the Bundesliga has a restriction on a private party taking more than a 49% ownership, the remainder (the 50+1 Rule) of voting rights must remain with the club itself - i.e. the entity itself and the fans - specifically designed to prevent the type of executive action that Liverpool, Manchester United and the rest have imposed on their clubs. It's almost impossible in Germany.
The exception is RB Leipzig who have attempted to circumvent the regulations by various means, but are widely disliked (I'll go so far as to say universally hated) by German soccer fans because of it.
So all the premiership teams have now withdrawn from the ESL project.
Surely we will see this ill fated idea collapse now , a victory for the Fan's??
Or was it one lot of money men against another?
I'm baffled by the entire 48 hours while this story unfolded. The announcement was half-assed at best and the timing was curious. If you're planning a global product launch (let's face it, that's what this was) you've got an orchestrated launch event, PR up the wazoo and smoke. And strobes. And more smoke and fireworks. And journalists on boondoggles. And pizza. You don't get Daniel Levy on a Zoom call. These are extremely weathly business people who don't do half-baked.
It smacks of "let's run this up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes", especially with the UEFA announcement of the Champions League changes due the next day. Also so I'm sure there was a conversation around fan boycotts - but the last 14 months have proven that while in 2019 it would have been unthinkable to regularly play matches in empty stadia the COVID restrictions have tested, and disproved that theory. Who needs fans when you can pipe in crowd noise?
What I am surprised about is that the exit strategy when it was apparent that no-one was saluting said flag. It's been so fragmented - no "all for one" but a slow collapse. I wouldn't want to be the last man standing in that race.
At least Edward Woodward appears to have decided even his ego can't stand up to the oppobrium of the Manchester United fanbase and the football fanbase as a whole. He won't be missed on the sporting side of things, but I'm sure the potential noodle sponsors of the team are rueing his impending departure. Maybe he, Jose Mourinho and JP Morgan can start their own super league in Dubai, they're both looking for a new challenge and JP Morgan have the money. Eight teams, all coached by the Special One and the league provided with players by Ed and funded by JPM. You know Sky would fall over themselves to buy the rights.
Bearing in mind my earlier caveat as regards my football knowledge, I wonder if the Spanish and the Italians had decided their countries wouldn't be that bothered and they could use Spanish legalese to shove it through. The American owners of LFC, AFC & MUFC thought that they had enough financial clout to weather the storm and that fans are more like US fans. But UK fans are far more parochial than US fans, hence the near civil war. The other three UK clubs thought "well, if they (AFC, LFC, MUFC) are prepared to take the major heat and stick their necks out we'll join in."
Just the musings of an 'outsider'.
Maybe that storm in the water glass was wanted to take away the attention from the UEFA CL changes?
The CL changes are quite unfair for smaller clubs... but maybe can now be used to "coax back" the ESL clubs... and will be undiscussed because they restore eternal peace (til the next undesired changes).
Honi soit qui mal y pense
I think everyone is agreed looking the latest news that this is like the proverbial 'Norwegian Blue'...
Call me a cynic if you like, but was this all just a smoke screen so that UEFA could squirt the Champions League reforms through??
Even though the Gang of 12 said that the reforms didn't go far enough, to allow them to always play in Europe regardless of where they finish in their respective leagues, and therefore the Super League idea was born.
I'm actually still a bit confused by the reforms because I was lead to understand that if Leicester, for example, managed to finish 4th place in the PL, as this is a place in the CL Prelim stages, we would be usurped by either Liverpool, Arsenal, or Spurs even though they finished outside of the CL Places because of the UEFA Euro Co-Efficient.
However reading the changes properly, it seems that these clubs would only be allowed 1 of the 2 'extra' places and so we could end up with 5 teams in the CL instead of 4, but only if they've qualified for any other European Place, i.e. Europa League.
I think :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:
Cheers
Neal.
@Calnefoxile (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=619) That's pretty much right, Neal. The Champions League (it still bothers me that it doesn't have an apostrophe adds four more teams to make 36. One more from the third-place finisher in the fifth-placed association in the UEFA rankings, one more from the preliminary rounds, and two from the "coefficient" pot.
The rider indeed is that the coefficient clubs must have actually qualified for another UEFA tournament, but UEFA are adding a new one - the snappily-named UEFA Europa Conference League, basically a third-tier competition - so if you're a "top, top club" that can't even summon up the energy to qualify for that, then you deserve to go empty-handed. I'm calling that one the "Juventus" clause - unless they get relegated again for match-fixing shenanigans, it's almost unthinkable that they couldn't scrape sixth place in Seria A to be eligible for a coefficient spot.
:hellosign:
No words about it...only one thing..
Andrea Agnelli (JUVENTUS F.C.).......the most famous uncle GIANNI AGNELLI is rounding itself down the grave! >:(
All 12 ridiculous..this is not the right way to reform the UEFA CL.
Marco
Looks like Italian football is going to get all kinds of interesting next year - Inter with a championship under Conte, Juventus wondering where it all went wrong - and "Roma - Daje Mou"!
Quote from: LASteve on May 06, 2021, 10:12:59 PM
Looks like Italian football is going to get all kinds of interesting next year - Inter with a championship under Conte, Juventus wondering where it all went wrong - and "Roma - Daje Mou"!
Hi,
about Roma ....i can't know, can't say anything ..
Rome is not an easy place .....football especially , there are many and many "influencer and influences".......politic and politicians, priests, church, masonery, football supporter's groups ( Ultras ecc. ecc.)
Cheers.
Marco
The Italian newspapers seem pretty happy about it. My favorite headline was "Il Ritorno Dello Special One". :)
It is "the new of the year" speaking about football..
Here..no one was expecting it!...
Marco
Does anyone know who won the FA Cup final this year? I feel sure @Calnefoxile (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=619) will know but I can't see it mentioned anywhere :(
Lest we forget.
Quote from: Trainfish on May 21, 2021, 10:59:26 PM
Does anyone know who won the FA Cup final this year? I feel sure @Calnefoxile (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=619) will know but I can't see it mentioned anywhere :(
John @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262)
Thank you for pointing out that LEICESTER CITY have won the FA Cup for the first time in 137 years & at the 5th time of asking. I believe we're still in the Guiness Book of Records for the most appearances at the FA Cup final and losing, but at least we've put that record to bed now.
I must admit I thought we'd blown it when Chilwell (Had to be him) put the ball in the net, but thanks to the 'wonderful' implementation of VAR, he was a hair follicle offside.
However they got their own back on the following Tuesday to put our qualification to the Champions League in doubt, which will be disappointing (why do we always get the toughest run-ins??) but we've already qualified for the Europa League.
Oh and did I mention
LEICESTER CITY WON THE FA CUPRegards
Neal.