N Gauge Forum

Afternoon all.

I have been doing some research into the era and location that my layout is set and have found that an early class 59 in Foster Yeoman livery with an appropriate rake of hopper wagons would make an idea addition to my rolling stock as they were often seen rolling through from Purfleet. I didn't actually realise that the Class 59 came to these shores as early as it did until recently.

Now I see that there are some forth coming releases of a class 59 but didn't know if there were any other alternatives?

Ideally in this livery

(https://i.ibb.co/fDPL4Qt/2021-01-02-04-16-18.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jJ1sgHG)

:thankyousign:

To all practical intents there is no forthcoming 59 from anywhere. Dapol announced one a very long time ago, and have been said to say it'll follow whatever the current big project is, but it's a very long time away, if it ever appears IMO. The OO gauge one has been very slow to market, and they've been actively developing that one.

It's a small class with a lot of intra-class variation, which makes it awkward to do, but it's the obvious missing link from modern day diesels.

Quote from: njee20 on January 28, 2021, 02:34:22 PM
To all practical intents there is no forthcoming 59 from anywhere. Dapol announced one a very long time ago, and have been said to say it'll follow whatever the current big project is, but it's a very long time away, if it ever appears IMO. The OO gauge one has been very slow to market, and they've been actively developing that one.

It's a small class with a lot of intra-class variation, which makes it awkward to do, but it's the obvious missing link from modern day diesels.

Thanks for the info.

I thought I had seen in a recent magazine it was on the horizon. I should have know in N gauge especially in the current climate that could mean anything  ;D
Shame as the hoppers are readily available just needed some motive power. Fingers crossed one will appear soon and I will get my name down for one

If you're looking for ready-to-run it's probably a case of wait for the Dapol model (or hope it's on Revolution Trains' radar). CJM Models had them in their range but Chris has recently retired so you'll now only find them second hand.

There's a body shell on Shapeways (https://www.shapeways.com/product/RU6E2K6S2/mendip-rail-ltd-class-59-0?optionId=282752&li=marketplace) for the 59/0 version.

BH Enterprised (http://www.bhenterprises.co.uk/diesel-loco-kits.html) do an etched brass kit which from memory needs a pre-DCC class 50 or 55 chassis.

It is possible to convert a class 66 but it's a lot of work. There's a picture of Grahame Hedges' conversion on RMWeb (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/2480-n-gauge-mba-and-mca/)

Steven B.

Steven B.

If one walks toward the horizon in a featureless environment, the horizon never gets any nearer. :D

We need 1 soon, my wagons are ready and waiting. Sorry for the poor quality video, it just shows how long I've been waiting  :goggleeyes:

I acquired a BHE kit many years ago, it builds up into a nice model.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/105/943-280121163324.jpeg)

I also got keen and modified my rake of Farish wagons to go with it. I haven't always modeled pre grouping ;)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/105/943-280121163710.jpeg)

Hi Gavin

Even though the hoppers exist, that Farish PGA design dates from 1994 and was a generic PGA. That means nothing was quite right, and the end ladders and platforms are all wrong.
Doesn't stop me from having 21 of them behind a BR blue Western representing the Merehead - Botley run.
But if you are prepared to tolerate all the rolling stock being wrong (just look at the Hornby ex Lima Yeoman PGA to see what they should look like) why not just repaint a 66 in Halfords silver and use FMR transfers and Fox nameplates for your favourite loco. I have a spare set of transfers lying around for the early FY livery, and it includes all the FY blue stripes.
I did two 66s like that. Sure the light clusters are wrong, and so are the side vents and exhaust, but hey ho!

Best
Bob

PS Gareth's is better. Gareth's are always better :)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/105/1517-280121163428.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=105412)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/105/1517-280121163555.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=105413)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/105/1517-280121163646.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=105414)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/105/1517-280121163708.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=105415)

You also need to check what livery the PGAs are in.

The Farish China light grey with the YEOMAN block that isn't the full size of the side of the hopper is the first one - circa 75 - 85.
Then the light grey with the YEOMAN blue on the whole side (Gareth's model) is circa 85 - 95. This was approximated by Farish (Poole) in 1994.
The YEOMAN CAIB one that Farish also did was the last version, approx 1995 to withdrawl.
Dates are quite possibly wrong.

The 59 first appeared in 1986.

Bob

I've also got a Farish 66 I'm midway through repainting into a Hanson 59/2. Well... I started it, I tried to find it the other day and couldn't.  :worried:

The roof silencer is much longer on a 59, plus the underframe. I had aspirations to do a new underframe 'module' on the Farish model to suit a 59. The reality is I'll finish the repaint and then do nothing else! If I find it.

Gavin
Ray of B H E has been ill lately and now has cought the dreaded Covid  and his family have banished him to his bedroom .so I would give it a week or two before you ring him on
01923 672809
Or Email him on
bhengauge@google mail.com
Dont worry if you dont get an answer imediately but ringing would be best as he can then tell you if he has one in stock and take payment over the phone .
But as I said give it a week or two for him to fully recover .
Bob Tidbury

Worth keeping an eye open in case a CJM turns up for sale, they are lovely  :)

(https://web.archive.org/web/20160506235431im_/http://www.cjmmodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/prod-59-yeoman-ARC_750px.jpg)
(image from Wayback Machine archive of cjmmodels.co.uk)

I think I've seen two in the last few years! Anyone with a Hanson CJM one I'm all ears though!

Quote from: Bob G on January 28, 2021, 04:47:32 PM
The 59 first appeared in 1986.

Bob

And there I was thinking I took these pictures a few years before 1986. My memory playing tricks with me again  :doh:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/262-301018033351-70758196.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/262-301018033337-707541272.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/262-301018033351-707582351.jpeg)

Yep, definitely January 86 they were first delivered, although they entered service very quickly thereafter. Unlike the 60s which took years to get right!

Those two pictures definitely show the first two eras of PGA liveries too.

The other thing I was never sure about, was the cab front always seems to be a white colour while the rest of the body and roof (and roof front face) were Yeoman silver (as if silver is a variable colour - I used simple aerosol silver on mine). That second @Trainfish (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262) picture really shows the "white" front off well, but the very first photo in this thread makes it look more silver.
I always used to think it was a trick of the light. But I'm not so sure now.
Neither CJM nor @thebrighton (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=943) painted theirs white (nor did I), so what is it supposed to be?

Bob

Pretty certain it's just the rake of the windscreen area, so it reflects light differently the horn grille area above, making it look different. John's first picture shows the windscreen surrounds as the same colour as the body side.

Hi Bob,

The cab windscreen surround is certainly silver:

http://www.railscans.co.uk/picture/59003.jpg (http://www.railscans.co.uk/picture/59003.jpg)

http://www.railscans.co.uk/picture/_c57_15m.jpg (http://www.railscans.co.uk/picture/_c57_15m.jpg)

I agree the that from many angles the rake can make it seem a lighter shade!  I remember seeing this loco in the mid-90s when I moved to London, and being almost stunned by how completely different it was to anything else I'd seen.

cheers

Ben A.

I found 2 more of my pictures taken at Westbury in 198x of I believe the same train. Not sure if they help @Ben A's research into the model he will aim to release this year  :thumbsup: I'll be ordering at least 2 in the Yeoman livery (hopefully 59 001(?) with the bell will be included) and 1 or 2 in ARC please  :D

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/105/262-290121092640-1054681852.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/105/262-290121092727-1054731212.jpeg)

I am moving my modelling slowly and inexorably towards 1950-60s periods but I would have one of these as it is definitely an iconic and stand out loco in original Yeoman silver. It set performance criteria that no UK designed locomotive could match at the time. Same reason I have an original Eurostar.

BUT PLEASE don't make Kenneth J Painter. I think Yeoman Enterprise was always the best (or Endeavour with the bell).  Thankfully like Westerns you can just ping off the nameplates and change them if you want.

Bob

My first visit to Merehead in 1988 involved going to the wagon repair shop. The car park was separated from the shop by the arrivals line.

Parked my car. Admired Class 59 arriving with a long train of PTAs. Then walked about 200 yards to the front of the train to cross the track and get back to the repair shop. It was a toss up which way to walk, but I felt happier going to the front where there was a marked walking route, and the driver and guard would be able to see me.

Silver can be a really smart livery colour. One of the silver based SNCF coach liveries used 2.5 metre high TER lettering on the bodyside. The TER was in one shade of silver, and the bodyside in a different lighter shade. Depending where the sun was, looking at the passing train side gave the impression of the TER being invisible as the train approached, then becoming clearly visible when viewed 90 degrees on, before becoming invisible again as the train continued through the field of view. Arnold and LS Models captured the effect in their N gauge models. Must try to video it sometime.

Cheers for the comments all, some good information within them.

Appears the 59's have more of a demand then I thought they would.
The Yeoman livery and 59 are certainly something I remember growing up. Used to occasionally see them rolling through Barking. Was always mega excited to see a freight train as a kid as it was mainly a passenger line so was always good to randomly catch one. Also as stated they looked very different from the other stock of the time.

@Bob G (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1517) thanks for the detail on the wagons and locomotives. The discrepancies on the wagons would not bother me as my knowledge isn't that strong and I would have never have known without reading your comments. The repainted 66 looks a lot closer then I thought it would to be fair. Some good jobs.
Fortunately the era my fictional layout setting is between 1990 and 1998 so I could get away with some variation.

I am in no rush so will keep an eye on and hope for some future releases. Unless I come across one of the rare kits in the mean time.

@Bob Tidbury (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3442) thanks for the additional information. I wish Ray a speedy recovery and will keep those details to hand for future reference.

The actual body of the 59s is the same as the earlier 66s (later ones gained an extra door among other changes). The differences are in things like the lights, underframe, bogies and roof detail. So it depends a bit how fussy you are, even a basic repaint isn't a million miles off. 59/1 and 59/2 look a lot closer to the 66, as they have the same headlights. The 59/0 (Yeoman) has the two central headlights which single them out as looking markedly different.

My CJM 59003 Yeoman Highlander in Germany  :D

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/5885-270420200751.jpeg)

Read this thread with great interest.

Personally the 59/0 has always been my 3rd favourite of the type, but would probably get one if it was offered RTR.

I have also long known of the issues with the RTR stock, but thanks to the impressive efforts of Nick @njee20 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147) , I am now working on a rake of these:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/105/1081-290121165719.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=105509)

To go with these:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/105/1081-290121165836.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=105510)

Incidentally Nick, have you looked at the Yeoman JHAs? I assume the handrails / walkways are more of a challenge?

Now I wonder if lightening will strike twice and a CJM 59/2 will come my way  :angel: :angel:

Skyline2uk

I haven't, principally because Dapol do them in OO, so I'd expect them to be downsized at some point. For some reason I've always preferred the Powell Duffryn ones too, simpler!

Quote from: njee20 on January 29, 2021, 05:43:03 PM
I haven't, principally because Dapol do them in OO, so I'd expect them to be downsized at some point. For some reason I've always preferred the Powell Duffryn ones too, simpler!

Fair nuff, don't pay massive attention to 00, but your assumption would be valid when (if) Dapol do shrink the 59

Skyline2uk

The last I heard on the Dapol Digest they are talking about 2022 at the earliest for the N gauge 59.

Cheers
Mark

 Cheap 66 appears I could be tempted to give a repaint a go.

Although I move that slowly with this hobby by the time I have some rolling stock it will be 2022 anyway.

;D

Hi all,

So only 2 months late to this.... Personally I am holding out for a 59, although as someone has mentioned there is a shapeways body out there.

There are so many differences between the 59 and the 66s I personally could not make a convincing one even thouse they share the same basic body shape (the curse of getting to tinker on real ones), the closest class 66 base model is the Farish 66546 and even that is miles away, I have counted 5 glaring differences just on the body shell and well the underframe there is only 4 similarities between the 2 classes.

546 has WIPAC lights though, surely an EWS donor is better? Assuming you're doing a 59/1 or 59/2.

Quote from: njee20 on March 29, 2021, 05:29:19 AM
546 has WIPAC lights though, surely an EWS donor is better? Assuming you're doing a 59/1 or 59/2.

Correct, but body panel wise its as close as your going to get, as I say even then it is miles away, you could go try a the Farish DRS 66/4 and with a bit of paint magic can add the marker lights and find a suitable donor body (not sure if 546 will fit nicely or not) that was you can with a bit of modelling remove the ladders and add the air tanks on the underside

Surely it depends which you're doing - as said, if you're doing a 59/1 or 59/2 why would you need the marker lights? Then the body is closer. Is there a difference between the different Farish models? Why is the FL one a better donor than EWS, given it has the wrong lights? I know they do the low emissions ones, but that's then got a spare door surely? What makes 546 the best donor? Only asking as I've got so many 66s and I can't find the other one I started! I've definitely got at least two 546s!

The under frame, bogies, and roof silencer are the differences that leap out at me. I can overlook the rest! In fact I can overlook the bogies, and probably the other two as well!

Both the 59/1 and 59/2 still have the old BR type 3 light units (Headlight, Marker and tail) at the moment at least anyway, hence why the chassis of the Farish 66/4 which while models the new LED type you can do what they have done to convert it by simply painting on the markers.
The under frame of this is the closest available, although the ladders for the engine compartment access would need to be removed as there isn't an external engine room door on the 59s, this is where the body shell from 66546 comes into play.

It doesn't have the engine room access door, but it does have the same size radiator inlet louvres fitted (in real life this follow on batch of FL 66s had the 59 radiator fitted due to overheating issues on the first batches both EWS and FL).

So using these gets you the closest from production models only to a 59 from a 66.

As I say unless its a 66/4 chassis and the shapeways body its to far out for me as the difference are huge in fact topside the its the cabs and radiator compartment that are the same, the engine and clean air room are completely different proportions and that's just the start of the difference

I'm totally lost, even looking at pictures I can't tell the difference between the 59 and the early 66 lights  :dunce:

I'm less offended by an incorrectly sized radiator louvres than a door that shouldn't be there and wrong headlights (as they do look wrong on all the 66/4s, and not just missing marker lights. Plus I don't understand the rest of what you wrote about clean air rooms and what not!), blissful ignorance! if I find it I'll resume my EWS 66 respray!

How much easier this would be if someone just announced a proper one! :doh:

Right OK so there are 4 different headlight units on the class 66s BR era, HID version 1a ,1b and 2


So what Farish are now doing to cover BR era is use the tooling for 66s with HID version 2 headlights and painting the outer marker lights on, which makes sense as across all 66s the early BR type headlights are been phased out so no point tooling for them at great cost when they will soon be gone and you can spend less than a penny on some white stripes.

Headlight wise the reason you cant use the chassis for 66546 is because it has HID version 1a lights, as well as the fuel tank been wrong


Thats the headlight issue, but the chassis itself on the EWS models has the incorrect fuel tank (6000lt) not the smaller (5000lt) tank which you need so you can fit underside main res air tanks and if wanted attach fire extinguisher bottles on the chassis frame itself (although thats another world of fun as there is a sand box in the way), although they are big and red so would very easily noticed if missing IMO.

Now to the bodyside...
So as previously said the closest match I can find without the offending engine room door is the 66546 model (funnily enough a loco I have been working on to rectify the issues it has at work), it has the right size radiator inlet louvres unlike the EWS versions but as you say @njee20 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147) you are happy to over look that..

But the proportions then for me are to far out to compare...


The class 59 has a larger engine than the class 66 room to accommodate the 16 cylinder high pressure engine it was built with, this in turn has reduced the clean air room space toward the centre of the locomotive, but also in the 2 blue boxes.

On the picture item 2 is the size of the clean air intake louvre on the class 59 which is overlaying the class 66 drawing, as you can see it is half the size and that because item 1 is a flat panel on the 59s inside of which houses the 1980s era loco control computer, which in a 66 is about the size of a PC!

Now the final bit......

The cab frontage starting at the top the horns on the 66s and something Farish have done better than Dapol the horn housing is protruding from the front roof beam where as on the 59s it is sank into the roof beam (Farish have it protruding Dapol models it is sank in!), then there is the high intensity top light which all 66s have where as the 59s don't

On 59s the lamp iron is mounted just below the handrail, where as the on the 66s it mounted above the headlight cluster on the second mans side, and then just to throw an extra curve ball (if your super detailing your front end) the 59/2s break line brackets are offset from when they had triplock coupling gear fitted!

I know I know I may be rivet counting but its the curse of playing... I mean working.. yeah working on these! I just feel that to make a convincing 59 out of a 66 is some serious modelling and alterations even when ignoring the completely different bogies (or trucks to give them their proper name), and I as many am hoping that there is a manufacturer out there willing to get the 59s out there as they do hold a rather unique place in British Rail History and well they are the class 66s dad after all!

Surely that's all Farish have ever done, given the first few batches all had "BR era" lights? They've not re-tooled.

How do you know the divide between the engine and clean air room is where it is? Is that the significance of the 'seam' in the bodywork? It seems you've drawn the demarkation there on the 66?

Looking at this picture:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49559269958_0773a65e8d.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ivodkG)59103 Acton Mainline. Fri 14th Feb 2020. (https://flic.kr/p/2ivodkG) by Stu Sharp (https://www.flickr.com/photos/stusharp/), on Flickr

Versus this one (I know it's a real one versus a model):

(https://i1.wp.com/news.bachmann.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/371-384A_ArticleImage.jpg?resize=680%2C221&ssl=1)

What you're saying is that you've got the 'gap' between the door and the clean air intake...? It looks to me (and the angle's not great I admit) that the 'seam' in the bodywork is in roughly the same place on both though? It's certainly closer to the middle of the loco than you've marked the clean air room - so why is that relevant? Fuel tank and general underframe detail I agree needs some tweaking. Dunno why I'm having this conversation, I preferred my ignorance, although it's fascinating to understand the differences.

Quote from: njee20 on March 29, 2021, 10:45:43 PM

How do you know the divide between the engine and clean air room is where it is? Is that the significance of the 'seam' in the bodywork? It seems you've drawn the demarkation there on the 66?

I should know where the divide is  ;) other whys my boss may have some questions  :worried: but yes on the 59/66 that outside seem is replicated on the inside into separate rooms, the clean air room has to be kept free from oil so no crud can get into the electronics or more importantly the brake system (Oil and brake frames is a bad combination!)
With the engine been around 6 foot longer on the 59 the clean air room is compacted, and is why the air tanks are underneath on the 59 and where as the 66 there is room for the air tanks internally.
Also to add into that you need the larger "barn" section to allow for engine lifts which even with the given space is very snug

Quote from: njee20 on March 29, 2021, 10:45:43 PM
Surely that's all Farish have ever done, given the first few batches all had "BR era" lights? They've not re-tooled.

What you're saying is that you've got the 'gap' between the door and the clean air intake...?

So the gap between the door and the clean air intake, boxed in red
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/108/4166-290321230729-108018726.jpeg)

This picture also shows those pecky fire tanks that 66s don't have at all

Yes, sorry, poor choice of words on my part, I meant how does one know where the divide is, not you personally. I don't doubt you know about tonnes of stuff that's on the inside, but that divide to the clean air room doesn't look to be as far out as you've said, it's significantly inboard of the bogie. I'm still content with the differences, although I can add the clean air intake size as a difference!

Luckily the fire tanks aren't red if you paint it a proper livery  :D

Anyway, I'll move on, this isn't actually a thread about the differences between the 59/66!

Hi Gang;

The more you look at a Class 59, the more subtle differences to a 66 start to appear. Notwithstanding radiators, silencers, fire extinguishers and bogies, most if not all panels are different in some way even including the ends with buckeye couplers and ferry hooks.

Good luck to anyone who attempts a conversion and many of the differences can be overlooked or concealed during painting. Out of the above, I would accept most of them.

What would be most excellent would be a forward-thinking manufacturer taking the plunge...

Later;
Stu from EGDL

I already have a class 59 based on a BH Enterprises kit on a Grafar class 50 chassis. I also have another on the go which will be sitting on a class 66 chassis, I know there are bogie differences but am going to accept that as it is to be honest.

Best wishes
Simon

Suspect this may be Kernow being optimistic for 2021 but good to know that these are still potentially on the docket for delivery in the future

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/38344/2D-005-000-Dapol-Class-59-Diesel-Locomotive-number-59-002 (https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/38344/2D-005-000-Dapol-Class-59-Diesel-Locomotive-number-59-002)

Quote from: gavin on April 20, 2021, 06:36:25 PM
Suspect this may be Kernow being optimistic for 2021 but good to know that these are still potentially on the docket for delivery in the future

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/38344/2D-005-000-Dapol-Class-59-Diesel-Locomotive-number-59-002 (https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/38344/2D-005-000-Dapol-Class-59-Diesel-Locomotive-number-59-002)

Hattons and Rails have them too. To name but two.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/siteresults.aspx?searchfield=dapol%20class%2059 (https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/siteresults.aspx?searchfield=dapol%20class%2059)
https://railsofsheffield.com/manufacturer-dapol-JJJM75?Personalise=false&searchTerm=&Category=Class+59&Gauge=N+Gauge&SortMethod=ProductCodeAscending&PageSize=24 (https://railsofsheffield.com/manufacturer-dapol-JJJM75?Personalise=false&searchTerm=&Category=Class+59&Gauge=N+Gauge&SortMethod=ProductCodeAscending&PageSize=24)

Have done so for about 7 years :)
Bob

More like 9 years.

And if the models are that cheap I will be astonished.

And happy!

Skyline2uk

9 years.........blimey,  what was I doing in 2012?

OMG, how young I looked, I had hair then.. :goggleeyes:

Another entity here who would love a 59 ,i have a long rake of Yeoman farish PGA,s i use a Dapol large logo 56 as a very long term stand in.

Visited the Digest for the first time in a long time and noted in response to a request for news on Class 59s, Joel responded 2 hours ago and I quote...

Quote
All the development work is done now and we await a production slot. I would say release would be in the next 6 months.

Promising!

Quote from: RailGooner on May 21, 2021, 02:55:26 PM
Visited the Digest for the first time in a long time and noted in response to a request for news on Class 59s, Joel responded 2 hours ago and I quote...

Quote
All the development work is done now and we await a production slot. I would say release would be in the next 6 months.

Promising!

It is not 1 April is it???? 

Quote from: Bob G on May 21, 2021, 03:02:22 PM

Quote from: RailGooner on May 21, 2021, 02:55:26 PM
Visited the Digest for the first time in a long time and noted in response to a request for news on Class 59s, Joel responded 2 hours ago and I quote...

Quote
All the development work is done now and we await a production slot. I would say release would be in the next 6 months.

Just had to duck to avoid some low flying pork....

Will believe it when I see it!

Skyline2uk

Promising!

It is not 1 April is it????

I could be wrong here but I assume Joel may have been referring to the OO version of the cl. 59 which is due for release at the later part of this year. I am not aware of an N gauge version being released any time soon but who knows?

Yeah that sounds like the OO gauge one... they showed (terribly) painted samples of that 2 years ago, I can't imagine they'll deliver an N gauge one in that timeframe when we've not seen so much as an EP.

Joel may well have been referring to the OO but the question and his reply are in the N thread (https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/diesel/class-59-n-aa/project-managers-blog-aa/349-class-59-opening-post/page2#post9556).

Yes I suspect that subtlety was lost on him, given he was just replying to a tag. I've asked the question.

Joel did say the N class 59 will follow the OO  one...

But given the OO gauge one is yet to appear it seems totally inconceivable that the N gauge one will suddenly be done in 6 months. I'll eat my hat if Joel realises he was posting in the N gauge thread, given people are also constantly asking about the OO gauge one. They can't even get from EP to delivery of a coach in under 2 years, I've not seen so much as a CAD for the 59, zero chance of them turning up this year.

Confirmed by Joel he was talking about the OO gauge one. News on the N gauge one "soon", I assume soon in this context is compared to geological epochs.

I saw on facebook today that Dapol have taken the N gauge Class 59 out of abeyance.

https://www.dapol.co.uk/N-Gauge-Class-59-Out-Of-Abeyance (https://www.dapol.co.uk/N-Gauge-Class-59-Out-Of-Abeyance)

Two more modern Class 59 liveries added to the list:

https://www.dapol.co.uk/Two-More-N-Gauge-Class-59-Models-Announced (https://www.dapol.co.uk/Two-More-N-Gauge-Class-59-Models-Announced)

Skyline2uk

I mean I'm happy, but now there's literally no point in continuing mine! :doh:

Also means I'll 'need' to buy three, as I've always liked the AI livery.

Quote from: Skyline2uk on July 16, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
Two more modern Class 59 liveries added to the list:

https://www.dapol.co.uk/Two-More-N-Gauge-Class-59-Models-Announced (https://www.dapol.co.uk/Two-More-N-Gauge-Class-59-Models-Announced)

Skyline2uk

Which makes the current list:
2D-005-000 #59005 "Kenneth J Painter" Foster Yeoman Silver Livery
2D-005-001 #59103 'Village Of Mells' ARC
2D-005-002 #59206 'John F Yeoman' DB Schenker
2D-005-003 #59204 National Power Blue Livery
2D-005-004 #59104 Hanson "Village of Great Elm"
2D-005-005 #59001 Aggregate Industries "Yeoman Endeavour"

Add "D" to the product code (e.g. 2D-005-001D) for the DCC fitted models.

There's some nice photos of the class being acceptance tested here:
http://www.traintesting.com/Class_59.htm (http://www.traintesting.com/Class_59.htm)

Steven B.

Don't forget the Gaugemaster Collection version in GBRf livery:-

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalog/product/view/id/82197/s/gaugemaster-gm2210501/ (https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalog/product/view/id/82197/s/gaugemaster-gm2210501/)

Am I right in thinking that all CL59's are confined to the Western Region?

John P

Quote from: jpendle on July 16, 2021, 08:18:35 PM
Am I right in thinking that all CL59's are confined to the Western Region?

John P

Nope, regularly get to Eastleigh, Botley, Ardingly, Allington, Fareham, amongst others on the Southern, various London depots and a couple in Anglia such as Dagenham and Chelmsford.
In the past the National Power / EWS /DB ones have worked in the North West of England too, most recently in the early 2010s out of Liverpool.

Jo

The EWS/DB 59/2s ran out of Warrington for quite a while as Jo says. Regularly seen at Arpley yard and used for a variety of workings particularly out of Liverpool bulky terminal for coal workings.

The 59/2s while based out of Warrington were used for a period between early 2001 and mid 2002 on the Tunstead - Northwich trains to allow for the 37s to be withdrawn from service prior to the service becoming a staple of class 60s.
I still remember 59206 climbing up though Altrincham it was going some and to be honest out performing the pairs of 37s it replaced but not nearly as pleasing sound effects!

Oh should also add that now under Freightliner while the fleet were mainly to be based down south on the Mendip contracts, there was touting for some to be used on Peak forest services and the "Jumbo trains" and while some staff were trained to operate and maintain them nothing as yet has come of it, but before I left for pastures new Freightliner needed all of them on the Mendip traffic as well as reinforcements from 66/6s

Quote from: steadfast on July 16, 2021, 09:24:14 PM

Quote from: jpendle on July 16, 2021, 08:18:35 PM
Am I right in thinking that all CL59's are confined to the Western Region?

John P

In the past the National Power / EWS /DB ones have worked in the North West of England too, most recently in the early 2010s out of Liverpool.

In National Power ownership, their locos were based at Ferrybridge (Yorkshire). Virtually all work was to the neighbouring Eggbrough and Drax power stations, mostly originating at ports on either the east or west coast - particularly Liverpool and Hull.

Quote from: PLD on July 16, 2021, 11:28:00 PM

Quote from: steadfast on July 16, 2021, 09:24:14 PM

Quote from: jpendle on July 16, 2021, 08:18:35 PM
Am I right in thinking that all CL59's are confined to the Western Region?

John P

In the past the National Power / EWS /DB ones have worked in the North West of England too, most recently in the early 2010s out of Liverpool.

In National Power ownership, their locos were based at Ferrybridge (Yorkshire). Virtually all work was to the neighbouring Eggbrough and Drax power stations, mostly originating at ports on either the east or west coast - particularly Liverpool and Hull.

The National Power ones mainly worked either limestone between Tunstead & Drax and coal traffic around Yorkshire (mainly between Gascoigne Woods & Drax, Ferrybridge and Eggborough).  However they did sometimes stray a bit further and had at least one flow to/from Wardley that took them to the Newcastle area.  Likewise in the brief period between EWS buying the 6 National Power locos and transferring them south to join the rest of the Mendip 59s, they also made a few appearances on the S&C working the gypsum trains between Drax and Kirkby Thore.

And if you want well off the beaten track, at least 2 Class 59s have made it to Scotland on test workings.  ARC 59104 in July 1991 on a loaded test freight between Mossend & Carnforth via the WCML.  Then 59201 with a rake of National Power coal hoppers toured various coal locations across southern and central Scotland for a few days during 1998.

Quote from: red_death on July 16, 2021, 09:59:23 PMThe EWS/DB 59/2s ran out of Warrington for quite a while as Jo says. Regularly seen at Arpley yard and used for a variety of workings particularly out of Liverpool bulky terminal for coal workings.

Yes was around 2010 and the six EWS Class 59/2's were  trialled on LBT circuit to replace the run down Class 60's but fortunately they were found wanting and soon enough Class 60's reappeared. Basically the Class 59/2's could not pull a skin off a rice pudding on the climb out of the docks and some of the drivers did not like them either. No surprised they disappeared.

Quote from: PLD on July 16, 2021, 11:28:00 PMIn National Power ownership, their locos were based at Ferrybridge (Yorkshire). Virtually all work was to the neighbouring Eggbrough and Drax power stations, mostly originating at ports on either the east or west coast - particularly Liverpool and Hull.

In National Power ownership the Class 59/2's were kepted to the Yorkshire MGR circuit, they never appeared at Liverpool Docks.

Quote from: 8A Rail on July 17, 2021, 11:25:50 AM
Basically the Class 59/2's could not pull a skin off a rice pudding on the climb out of the docks and some of the drivers did not like them either. No surprised they disappeared.

I find that surprising, given their power and tractive effort is markedly higher than a 60; and they're used on the jumbo trains in the hilly South West.

It could well be down to driving technique, transitioning from one type to the other.

Not to get too technical, but on a 60 the computer controlled systems work from a stand, adjusting power to each axle to get the train moving. Several people (who drove 59s daily until recently) have told me they don't like driving 60s because the technique they were taught is to open it up and let the computer control it, so they don't feel like they're actually driving it.

On a 59, the creep control kicks in at a low speed (2 mph perhaps?) so below that the driver has to get it moving by himself. Once moving, the system allows a small amount of slip to obtain optimal traction.
If you're into that sort of stuff, give EMD Super Series a search on Google

Jo

I seem to remember Class 66s being tried in various roles to replace Class 60s with dismal failure, but not 59s.

I confess I'm going on Wikipedia figures, but a 60 has a peak tractive effort of 474kN, a 66 is a paltry 409kN, and a 59 is a monstrous 540kN. For reference a 56 has a maximum of 275kN and a 37 is 247kN. But we digress! 59s are spectacular in the performance stakes.

Quote from: njee20 on July 17, 2021, 06:50:42 PM
I confess I'm going on Wikipedia figures, but a 60 has a peak tractive effort of 474kN, a 66 is a paltry 409kN, and a 59 is a monstrous 540kN. For reference a 56 has a maximum of 275kN and a 37 is 247kN. But we digress! 59s are spectacular in the performance stakes.

Nothing wrong with the odd bit of digressing also long as its related  ;)

And a topic that my self and my brother were talking about recently was about locos or classes seemingly not performing when they should do.....

And his experience and mine matched up very well he works at DB control (was there from 98 in EWS days) and mine fixing locos which were "broke". There is one factor when it comes to locos that means they either fail or the service doesn't run which is nothing to do with the locos!

The drivers! Even in my spell at my previous employer it wasn't an unknown for a driver to fail a train and refuse to take it, now the bit that stinks about it is that in some cases you could predict it even the people at control could, with certain drivers making a fault appear because they didn't like the class or specific loco (66567 had a stigma attached to it and was frequent) it was rather obvious but these guys know the rules and how to use / abuse them.

Now go back to when the 59s were purchased by then EWS and they still had a lot of BR era locos (37/47/56/60) and a lot of drivers didn't like none BR locos especially peak forest based drivers, with them been referred to by less than polite names however with that although it was their job to drive them plenty found excuse to avoid it!

So while the class 59s were capable some drivers did what they could to avoid it, by failing them which on paper makes it look like the locos are not as capable or suited to the particular service, these days of course that issue doesn't really exist as its mostly 66s which are in effect an upgrade of the 59s (of course there are differences I know) but for cab layout, control and driving characteristics there isn't much between them!

Interesting to read members thoughts after my post about the Class 59's especially in the Liverpool area. Although understandably you may be suggesting that some drivers make any excuse not to drive a particular loco or class including the Class 59's but that was not the reason why the Class 59's were not upto scratch locally.

Due to the way Class 59's are set up including their 'software', the EWS Class 59/2's continually struggled to pull a 2100 tonne coal train from a dead start on an approx 1:60 / 90 climb for a mile and a half which included a couple of reverse curves too on the Bootle Branch line. The Class 60's done it continually with ease. Clearly it is the way the loco's are set up mechanically and software but although I acknowledge the Class 59's are good loco's and are able to pull heavy loads but in this instance, they were just not suited to the trains involved.

To add further info, GBRF even tested their own Class 59 (59003) on the 2400 tonne biomass trains out of Liverpool Docks and that was found wanting again. On at least one occasion, it needed banking assistance (but I don't think 59003 is ever been 100% right since coming back from Germany)! With the exception of the Class 60's, the only other loco that is capable is the Class 70 which has been tested on the biomass trains and it was a success. However, the 'economics' of using them was not favourable compared with the Class 60's.

Yes, 59003 was part of the publicity for the Drax biomass train and had a 66 on the back pushing!

I cant believe how old these beasts are.

1986 was 35 years ago. Blimey! many of the first generation diesels didn't see ten years use!

1986 is past the end of my modelling eras but this will be a Rule 1 for me in FY silver because of their incredible legacy (I have had one BHE kit and two pretend 59s from straightforward 66 resprays in the past). The only other Rule 1s are large logo 73s, large logo 50s and a Eurostar.

Bob

Yet another extra Class 59:-

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/class-59-59206-john-f-yeoman-freightliner

Quote from: woodbury22uk on July 21, 2021, 08:46:54 AM
Yet another extra Class 59:-

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/class-59-59206-john-f-yeoman-freightliner

Indeed, and a crash course in latest 59 fleet ownership for me...

I wasn't aware any were orange, let alone with Freightliner.

Just been brought up to speed by others on the Facebook group  :thumbsup:

Skyline2uk

 :o :o :o

Things have changed since I started this topic

So it's been a while since I have been on here but I was reading hornby magazine at lunch the other day and stumbled across news of revolution trains production of one.

Needless to say just ordered 59001 in original yeoman  :D

Can't wait to see it in place on my network Southeast 1990's scene. Remember these rolling through purfleet as a kid. Just need some wagons now.

http://(https://i.ibb.co/vkxnqpp/Screenshot-20210930-132427.png) (https://ibb.co/rHGr0YY)

http://(https://i.ibb.co/ctF59x6/20210929-102155.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P4hpytc)

Just need to actually uncover the layout and get back involvement in some modeling. Winter will help I am sure  ;D

Least I don't have to just make do with a lego one  ;)

(https://i.ibb.co/hMhfpq1/2021-09-30-01-23-02.png) (https://ibb.co/pPGyCmr)