See this PDF (http://www.katomodels.com/hobbycenter/blog/medias/uploads/%E3%83%81%E3%83%93%E5%87%B8%E8%8B%B1%E5%9B%BD%E9%89%84%E9%81%93.pdf) - seems Kato are planning to release their generic "steeple cab" electric loco (see here (https://www.katomodels.com/product/n/chibiloco) for picture) in a pseudo-British livery (BR black with early crest logo). Release in June 2021. Not going to please the rivet counters, but another step towards UK products...
Oooh I'm not sure I like that :no:
Sod the rivet counters, that's a great idea. Their Pocket Line models means a decent quality entry level (ie cheap) train set to get new modellers hooked :)
I'm not a rivet counter, but it just looks a little too basic to me. Still, Triang and later, Hornby, have had success with the concept.
The chassis could certainly be useful. :thumbsup:
A bit disappointing that they don't use one of their shortie bogie designs.
I note it's a Gaugemaster product code, so they're presumably involved, aside from just being distributor.
The photo of the real loco seems to bear very little resemblance to what they're actually offering.
Quote from: Bealman on December 26, 2020, 11:47:12 PM
The chassis could certainly be useful. :thumbsup:
Though it's been available for donkey's years already for anyone who wanted one...
I knew that :P
Quote from: railsquid on December 27, 2020, 03:30:55 AM
Quote from: Bealman on December 26, 2020, 11:47:12 PM
The chassis could certainly be useful. :thumbsup:
Though it's been available for donkey's years already for anyone who wanted one...
"It" (the chassis) has been available in several types, with differingly moulded side frames and in at least one case end platforms. Bought my first roughly a decade plus ago. Bought the last ones a year back. Have more than five in service and a spare in pack just in case. 11-109 is just one variant.
An excellent out the pack runner, it was the first chassis type that I bought to start my Tramway. In most cases I had to remove chassis detail both sides down to the top of the axlebox slides so they fitted a UK width tram body, which could be made a decent push fit while testing concept.
They are the easiest thing ever to convert to DCC, as broad copper strips forming the pickups run across the motor top, where they touch equally broad copper strips coming up at 90 degrees from the motor. Insert an insulating strip and connect the four wires.
When I first bought they were around £11 each from PlazaJapan, I think I got one new for £9, though the price in the last year or so has jumped dramatically, nearer to £30 in some places.
With a Stay Alive and a couple of 470uF Tantalums they crawl very convincingly and totally reliably over Tomix tightest radius turnouts and tram track.
Quote from: Bealman on December 26, 2020, 11:47:12 PM
I'm not a rivet counter, but it just looks a little too basic to me. Still, Triang and later, Hornby, have had success with the concept.
Exactly my thoughts on seeing it!
http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/steepleCabBoxedA.jpg (http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/steepleCabBoxedA.jpg)
It certainly looks like Kato is serious about the UK market. Its collaboration with Peco to produce 009 models is encouraging as, I think, is this. From my experience, Kato locomotives are truly excellent. I'm hoping for positive developments.
Best wishes.
John
Well, we had the LNER ES1 Bo-Bo steeple cab, and there were three dinky steeple cab Bo designs that ran around Southampton's power station for a while. They had tram-type single pole pickups. So plenty of scope for adulteration.
Bob
Yes indeed.
I only have one Kato locomotive which I bought in Tokyo, and I wish I'd bought five of em!
I'm an ex-009 modeller, and I love them entering that market!
It all bodes well. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Train Waiting on December 27, 2020, 08:47:20 AM
Quote from: Bealman on December 26, 2020, 11:47:12 PM
I'm not a rivet counter, but it just looks a little too basic to me. Still, Triang and later, Hornby, have had success with the concept.
Exactly my thoughts on seeing it!
http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/steepleCabBoxedA.jpg (http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/steepleCabBoxedA.jpg)
It certainly looks like Kato is serious about the UK market. Its collaboration with Peco to produce 009 models is encouraging as, I think, is this. From my experience, Kato locomotives are truly excellent. I'm hoping for positive developments.
Best wishes.
John
See my post above. (On phone, and difficult to manipulate the forum!)
I'm not sure that releasing a fictitious prototype shows confidence in the UK market, and I think we ought to be careful about celebrating it too much.
What Triang and Hornby did 60 years ago shouldn't be a benchmark we strive for!
I presume this is part of a a larger production run, as surely they're not going to churn out x thousand of this specific variant.
Quote from: Bealman on December 27, 2020, 09:03:25 AM
difficult to manipulate the forum!
Oh you influencer you!
Let me fix that. I meant "manovourve."
Quote from: Bealman on December 27, 2020, 09:09:07 AM
Let me fix that. I meant "manovourve."
@Bealman (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=255) Your phone can't spell, either, George :no: :P
Not really sure what Kato's game plan is with that apart from a supply of chassis which it seems have been available for some time. It's nothing UK prototype wise, just a strange looking monstrosity :goggleeyes:
I'll shamelessly point out that some British outline swap-bodies are available...
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50566.msg659605#msg659605 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50566.msg659605#msg659605)
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=51128.msg669137#msg669137 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=51128.msg669137#msg669137)
Mike
Guess I'm just a "Rivet Counter" then, 'cos I reckon no amount of polishing can hide the fact that it's a turd :thumbsdown:
IMHO Kato are going to produce an 800 model that is designed for the internal Japanese market - i.e.: proprietary DCC solution - it's just coincidental that there's a small market to tap in the UK. This new model seems to be driven by Gaugemaster, so (again IMHO,) doesn't tell us anything about Kato's long term plans for or view of the UK market. I don't read this as good news or bad news, infact, barely is it news.
That will go so well with my Lima V100 "Clayton" :)
Some of Electra's top sellers are fictitious Class 350 livery packs to impersonate other EMU types, such as the Electrostar, so this is a real thumbs-up from me. A lot of people are happy to have something with the general feel of the original.
And hopefully this will be somewhat easier to acquire than my lovely World Craft loco:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/103/231-271220124049.jpeg)
I repainted this to look like an ES1. It was originally built as a Joshin Electric Railway Siemens Gerhard Celtic Deki1 to which I fitted couplings, Fleetline loco buffers and painted the buffer beam red.
I think it looks kinda cute but a lot will depend on the price-point.
If this little loco is retailed at a suitably low entry level price, possibly as part of a Pocket Line set to attract modellers into British N then maybe it is not such a daft idea.
Roy
The Pocket Line locos are cheap as chips, and it would fit into a plausible freelance scenario.
Why not do it?
Lots more plausible as a 4-wheeled UK prototype I'd have thought, PO/industrial rather than BR:
http://www.emus.co.uk/spondon.htm (http://www.emus.co.uk/spondon.htm)
https://www.tramway.co.uk/trams/blackpool-corporation-no-717/ (https://www.tramway.co.uk/trams/blackpool-corporation-no-717/)
http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/10014.htm (http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/10014.htm)
https://ribblesteamrailway.wordpress.com/2016/01/29/english-electric-ee7881930-2/ (https://ribblesteamrailway.wordpress.com/2016/01/29/english-electric-ee7881930-2/)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GEGB_English_Electric_Battery_Locomotive_Garratt_100_exhibition.jpg (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GEGB_English_Electric_Battery_Locomotive_Garratt_100_exhibition.jpg)
https://www.philt.org.uk/Industrial/Ind-DE/i-nKcX55b (https://www.philt.org.uk/Industrial/Ind-DE/i-nKcX55b)
https://www.philt.org.uk/Industrial/Ind-DE/i-G2NvL8s (https://www.philt.org.uk/Industrial/Ind-DE/i-G2NvL8s)
https://www.philt.org.uk/Industrial/Ind-DE/i-BsTS2ft/ (https://www.philt.org.uk/Industrial/Ind-DE/i-BsTS2ft/)
Mike
I have been trying to find a suitable UK prototype for this chassis but to no avail so far. It represents a 14 foot wheelbase is also a scale 27 foot between headstocks. If anyone has any ideas please do tell. :helpneededsign:
regards and Happy New Year
£49.95 according to the GM website.
https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalog/product/view/id/75252/s/gaugemaster-gm2260201 (https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalog/product/view/id/75252/s/gaugemaster-gm2260201)
Still waiting for the next run of class 73s from Gaugemaster. About two years now.
Would rather have them than a look alike loco that was relatively limited in operations (even compared to a 73!)
I've always said that Kato have no idea what they are doing :P
Quote from: Newportnobby on December 27, 2020, 09:24:25 AM
Quote from: Bealman on December 27, 2020, 09:09:07 AM
Let me fix that. I meant "manovourve."
@Bealman (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=255) Your phone can't spell, either, George :no: :P
Not really sure what Kato's game plan is with that apart from a supply of chassis which it seems have been available for some time. It's nothing UK prototype wise, just a strange looking monstrosity :goggleeyes:
OK, then I'll try again: "manure" :P
Triang had something similar in their Transcontinental range in the early sixties, by the way, with working pantograph:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/89/255-310320082811-898902259.jpeg)
A (probably very reliable) N gauge loco at under £50 even from Gaugemaster (even if it is what they describe as a "cureo") must be good news for N gauge.
Not if it convinces manufacturers that what we want are cheap, fictitious models! Even if Kato decide it's a good idea and punt more out that feels a hugely wasted opportunity.
I'm glad some will find use in it, but it's definitely a no from me.
Just what I need to convince my grown up friends that the smaller scale is finally the sensible choice ::)
As a sidebar the above two posts from Nick and Steve, are a great example of how opposing views on a topic are maturely accepted on this forum.
:NGF:
It is funny.
When folk want a loco it has to be perfect. Nothing else will do.
Except for when folk can't afford such perfection, when they ask for a Railroad version.
And everyone else says there is no room for a Railroad version in N - market is too small.
These loco chassis are readily available already, and some of us @maridunian (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2947) are better than others at utilising these chassis in well accepted 3D models.
But if anyone DARES to put a BR totem on a foreign body, the naysayers shout LIMA, PERU, and other such 4-letter words :)
If this gets kids into N, or provides a more-readily available chassis for butchery and trickery, why not?
Hope you all had a good Christmas and are happily enjoying the Twiglet Zone (that time between Christmas and New Year when you can't wait to get back to work).
Bob
I like it. And who knows, it may be a success that more prototypical models are made. That's what the market needs.
Rob.
Quote from: Bob G on December 28, 2020, 10:42:19 AM
It is funny.
When folk want a loco it has to be perfect. Nothing else will do.
Except for when folk can't afford such perfection, when they ask for a Railroad version.
And everyone else says there is no room for a Railroad version in N - market is too small.
These loco chassis are readily available already, and some of us @maridunian (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2947) are better than others at utilising these chassis in well accepted 3D models.
But if anyone DARES to put a BR totem on a foreign body, the naysayers shout LIMA, PERU, and other such 4-letter words :)
If this gets kids into N, or provides a more-readily available chassis for butchery and trickery, why not?
That's a bit of a straw man. There's a gap between perfection and fiction. It's a spectrum, and we'll all fall somewhere different on it. I have no real issue with present prices, I don't advocate a Railroad range, I want manufacturers to keep pushing the limits.
I can't really see why this would get anyone into N gauge, but accept that may be my short-sightedness. The 800 starter set? Absolutely. An esoteric loco that no one will recognise? Why would that attract people, least of all children? Purely on price?
As you identify the chassis is already available, so adding a body to be thrown away doesn't seem overly worthwhile, although perhaps it'll bring the existence of the chassis into more people's consciousness.
Quote from: njee20 on December 28, 2020, 11:57:54 AM
Quote from: Bob G on December 28, 2020, 10:42:19 AM
It is funny.
When folk want a loco it has to be perfect. Nothing else will do.
Except for when folk can't afford such perfection, when they ask for a Railroad version.
And everyone else says there is no room for a Railroad version in N - market is too small.
These loco chassis are readily available already, and some of us @maridunian (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2947) are better than others at utilising these chassis in well accepted 3D models.
But if anyone DARES to put a BR totem on a foreign body, the naysayers shout LIMA, PERU, and other such 4-letter words :)
If this gets kids into N, or provides a more-readily available chassis for butchery and trickery, why not?
That's a bit of a straw man. There's a gap between perfection and fiction. It's a spectrum, and we'll all fall somewhere different on it. I have no real issue with present prices, I don't advocate a Railroad range, I want manufacturers to keep pushing the limits.
I can't really see why this would get anyone into N gauge, but accept that may be my short-sightedness. The 800 starter set? Absolutely. An esoteric loco that no one will recognise? Why would that attract people, least of all children? Purely on price?
As you identify the chassis is already available, so adding a body to be thrown away doesn't seem overly worthwhile, although perhaps it'll bring the existence of the chassis into more people's consciousness.
Well it is of course a continuum from cheap and nasty to highly detailed, and some of us will tolerate widely ranging standards too.
I will happily have a UM model or an old whitemetal kit on a chassis with the wrong size drivers just because I want something to fill that particular gap in my roster.
But I will also welcome highly detailed models. I am just careful not to put one alongside the other. Or I wear blinkers.
Some on here have advocated a Railroad range, when in reality what is available already spans the range.
I agree this loco is an oddity. In an era when we seek for realism, we suddenly get the equivalent of a Triang Giraffe Car, but I had one of those too and ran it alongside my undersized Triang Pullmans. And at age 9 I was happy.
It's not a loco I am going to buy, but lets see if it attracts some into the hobby. particularly at a time when price is one of the biggest factors out there.
Bob
A Giraffe car....
What a great idea, or maybe a Battle Space missile wagon (wasn't allowed one at the time)..
Roy
When Mr Kato came to the N Gauge show the new mechanism it is built on had just been released (its the coreless version I think).
He did say that in Japan it was this type of product and their shortie range that KATO seeded the market with for new enthusiasts.
This model is perfectly logical being cheap, I suspect will be robust, and your average 10 year old probably does not yet know what a rivet is.
What I find far more interesting is that it is based (loosely) on a transition (LNER/BR) period model.
What I find far more interesting is that it is based (loosely) on a transition (LNER/BR) period model.What it is based on is this
https://www.osbornsmodels.com/kato-n-scale---k10-504-1-11598-p.asp (https://www.osbornsmodels.com/kato-n-scale---k10-504-1-11598-p.asp)
Quote from: Snowwolflair on December 28, 2020, 01:27:41 PM
What I find far more interesting is that it is based (loosely) on a transition (LNER/BR) period model.
I thought it was a Japanese steeple cab electric just rebadged.
Also the running number should have been either 26500 or 26501 with the early crest if it was to be an ES1 look alike.
E numbers on electrics only appeared under BR late crest, and the number chosen is entirely fictitious.
Bob
The last two posts have answered the question I was going to ask which was "is this simply a re-badged existing Kato loco or a new body on an existing Kato chassis?" Because, if it had been the latter. if Kato had put it on one of their shorty bogie chassis you would be much closer to a fooby ES1 - I could have lived with that (after a repaint) until I build my Judith Edge shrink ray ES1 etches. Also note that ES1 is in the national collection hence I suppose why Kato think a fooby might be worthwhile. Ah well...
Richard
if Kato had put it on one of their shorty bogie chassis you would be much closer to a fooby ES1
a chassis such as this.
https://www.osbornsmodels.com/kato-11-105-shorty-chassis-8558-p.asp (https://www.osbornsmodels.com/kato-11-105-shorty-chassis-8558-p.asp)
Well ... I'm certainly confused by the press release (or whatever it is) ... you give us a photograph of an iconic (if somewhat esoteric) prototype ... and then show us a model which looks NOTHING like it.
We're not talking rivets here ... we're talking a prototype that had bogies and a model that's running on 4 wheels.
We're talking a prototype that slopes away from the centre cab for the entire length of the hood on either side, and a model which only slopes away for the last short bit of the bonnet.
We're talking a prototype with side windows either side of the cab door, and a model with side windows to one side of the cab door only.
So I reserve my position ... and will wait with interest to see if it sells, and what might come next.
I do think this thread would be better titled "A new pseudo-British loco from Gaugemaster" or even "Another pseudo-British item from Gaugemaster". I truly believe that Kato's only part in this model is a rather insignificant one, as manufacturer of another one of Gaugemaster's commissions of pre-existing non-UK outline models finished in fantasy UK liveries:
GM2250101... Network Rail Track Cleaning Vehicle (Tomix)
GM2420101... Network Rail Track Cleaning Vehicle (Minitrix)
And even:
GM59... Locomotive Wheel Cleaning Brush (Minitrix)
Quote from: railsquid on December 26, 2020, 11:08:18 PM
See this PDF (http://www.katomodels.com/hobbycenter/blog/medias/uploads/%E3%83%81%E3%83%93%E5%87%B8%E8%8B%B1%E5%9B%BD%E9%89%84%E9%81%93.pdf) - seems Kato are planning to release their generic "steeple cab" electric loco (see here (https://www.katomodels.com/product/n/chibiloco) for picture) in a pseudo-British livery (BR black with early crest logo). Release in June 2021. Not going to please the rivet counters, but another step towards UK products...
Comparing the photo of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_ES1#/media/File:Heaton_Locomotive_Depot_geograph-2899256-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_ES1#/media/File:Heaton_Locomotive_Depot_geograph-2899256-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg) and the KATO version for Gaugemaster I think this is an abomination.
Surely we should not have such stuff foisted upon us? Generic approximations went out in the 1970's surely.
I think any similarity is purely coincidental, they could have got closer to the ES1 with existing products if that was their aim.
Yes, looks to me like it's directed at the "toy" market.
Quote from: GlenEglise on December 29, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Surely we should not have such stuff foisted upon us? Generic approximations went out in the 1970's surely.
Don't worry, I'm sure there won't be a legal obligation to buy one ;).
It's not exactly the first N model to pretend to be something else - I've still got a Lone-Star push a long American F unit in green livery with a BR double arrow logo that seems to be under the delusion it is a Baby Deltic (D5900)!
When I first visited Caboose Hobbies in Denver back in the 1980's, they had quite a selection of what I took to be a Japanese prototype N gauge electric loco for sale in liveries like Conrail and Great Northern.
In addition, I can clearly remember one of the local modelshops here in Ipswich having an HO scale F unit in BR blue with a yellow end for sale in the 1970's too....
It's definitely not the first, but as has been said several times we shouldn't aspire for what was acceptable 50 years ago!
It's a shame it's not cheaper and bundled in a set with some Peco wagons, Kato Unitrack and a controller. It could then make a reasonable starter set for a child - isn't this what Hornby do with some of their generic RailRoad items?
This could make something that was robust enough for smaller hands, and be an introduction to something that could become a lifelong hobby.
That I'd definitely agree with! If they did it for £70 with a circle of track, a controller and a couple of wagons then maybe. There's a reasonable choice of OO gauge sets around £55-£65.
I think people are missing stuff here.
Space is very limited in most Japanese dwellings. N gauge is the preferred option.
A starter set is what it is!
But it's not a starter SET if it's just the locomotive ...
The need for reasonably-priced introductory sets in N is something my local model shop proprietor has been stressing ever since I've known him ...
Quote from: Bealman on December 29, 2020, 09:06:34 AM
.....A starter set is what it is!
If you look at RailSquid's link and this one;
https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalog/product/view/id/75252/s/gaugemaster-gm2260201/ (https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalog/product/view/id/75252/s/gaugemaster-gm2260201/)
it comes across to me that it's just the loco.
Quote from: Bealman on December 29, 2020, 09:06:34 AM
I think people are missing stuff here.
Space is very limited in most Japanese dwellings. N gauge is the preferred option.
A starter set is what it is!
Yeah I've not seen anything to suggest it's a starter set. If it was then I'd totally get it. It appears to just be a ficticious loco for £50. It's well priced, but I still can't see it attracting kids (or anyone) to N gauge, particularly when compared to OO gauge starter sets.
Here's the standard Kato freight set:
https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/kato-k10-504-1.html (https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/kato-k10-504-1.html)
I'd have thought their passenger set (https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/kato-k10-503-1.html) presented as a British prototype, perhaps based on the Wantage Tramway (http://wantagewaterway.gentle-highway.info/Jane/jane.htm) or similar pre-grouping line, would be quite an attractive product.
Mike
Oh, ok, I can't get the PDF up on me phone.
I can get the pic, and thought it was a set.
Sorry! :-[
I think it's a bit of harmless silliness, and there's nowt wrong with that in what is supposedly a fun pastime. It won't be for everyone, but I doubt they'll be expecting to sell them by the thousand.
I'll pick one up for novelty value, same as the Kato pocket line steam set (the loco of which is actually a quite passable industrial well tank for UK use).
Quote from: railsquid on December 26, 2020, 11:08:18 PM
See this PDF (http://www.katomodels.com/hobbycenter/blog/medias/uploads/%E3%83%81%E3%83%93%E5%87%B8%E8%8B%B1%E5%9B%BD%E9%89%84%E9%81%93.pdf) - seems Kato are planning to release their generic "steeple cab" electric loco (see here (https://www.katomodels.com/product/n/chibiloco) for picture) in a pseudo-British livery (BR black with early crest logo). Release in June 2021. Not going to please the rivet counters, but another step towards UK products...
Google translation of Japanese PDF
Pre-ordered product No. GM2260201 Product name / Road name JAN code Chibi-convex British Rail E3682 Undecided Body price ¥ 6,600 Chibi-convex British Rail E3682 (E3682 British Rails Electric Pocket Line) E3682 British Railways] ・ The E3682 is a convex electric locomotive manufactured by the London and North Eastern Railway (LNER) in the 1930s and has been active for 50 years at a power plant in the United Kingdom. -London and North Eastern Railway (LNER) was one of the major railway companies called Big Four in the United Kingdom, but in 1948 it was integrated with the other three major railway companies and nationalized to become British Railways (BR). became. -The E3682, which was green at that time, was repainted in black called "British Railways Black" and the British Railways logo was applied to the side. -The British Rails logo has a lion emblem that straddles the spoke wheels and is nicknamed the "Cycling Lion" and was painted on the side of the British Rails locomotive from 1948 to 1956. This logo was designed by British sculptor Cecil Thomas, who is famous for designing the coronation medal of Queen Elizabeth II. [Product Features] -A type product that has been repainted for overseas markets using a locomotive with a convex convex (new power). -The red color of the buffer is compatible with stickers. Package form: Clear case. -Headlights and taillights will not turn on because they are repainted products with convex protrusions. -Since the locomotive of KATO's Chibi convex set is diverted, the position of lights and doors and the shape of the dolly are different from the actual vehicle. Scheduled to be released in June 2021! British Rails Logo (Cycling Lion) Image is for illustrative purposes only.
Quote from: railsquid on December 29, 2020, 06:29:41 AM
Quote from: GlenEglise on December 29, 2020, 02:31:04 AM
Surely we should not have such stuff foisted upon us? Generic approximations went out in the 1970's surely.
Don't worry, I'm sure there won't be a legal obligation to buy one ;).
Thank Heavens! :D