This has a twofold effect.
1. To open a discussion about weathering of models and
2. To show off some more of @mk1gtstu (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2084) handiwork.
I feel no wagon should be clean, parcels vehicles were generally unwashed while passenger coaches did get washed but I know not how often in the transition era. I seem to recall them being pretty grubby at the time. Stu has already weathered my coal/mineral wagons to within an inch of their lives but check out what he's done with about 25 items of parcels stock (inc full BGs). Wherever possible the buffer shanks are silvered and the buffers 'greased'. The lad has even created 'clean' bits where hands have used door handles and people have wiped a bit of the window. All underframes and wheels dirted. It has also toned down some of the lurid original colours as you will see. I consider myself proud to have some of his work.
A Dapol 'maroon' CCT which was actually salmon pink! Before and after shots.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/102/264-081220142024-102886864.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/102/264-081220142024-102886934.jpeg)
Farish PLV 374-416 before and after shots
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/102/264-081220142034-1028951823.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/102/264-081220142029-10289291.jpeg)
A factory weathered Farish CCT followed by a pristine one weathered by Stu
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/102/264-081220142031-102893151.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/102/264-081220142034-10289523.jpeg)
A pristine Farish GUV 374-130 afterwards
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/102/264-081220142027-102890943.jpeg)
A pristine Farish MK1 BG 374-027A after treatment
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/102/264-081220142027-1028901049.jpeg)
and finally a pristine Farish bogie luggage van 374-630 given the works
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/102/264-081220142030-102892755.jpeg)
These are but some of the 25 items I sent to Stu and he fitted them into his already hectic work/workbench schedule long before I expected them back. I'm sure the pics don't do the work justice but the overcast weather has meant reliance on house lighting. A huge thanks, Stu.
:thankyousign: :NGaugersRule:
Mick, this is excellent weathering. I've only bought a couple or three items that were weathered - with mixed results. I personally think a light application of diluted gray acrylic paint will suffice. I'll get around to testing that assumption one day!
Leon
The weathering looks great, but why are buffer-shanks ''silvered''? I can't speak for really-modern stock, but in the BR era, only vehicles with 'Oleo' Pneumatic buffers had silver shanks. Examples include Blue Spot fish. Presflo, HAA and TTA. Locos such as 25,33, 37, 47 and 56 (the ones with round buffers) had them, but it's best to check photographs first.
For me weathering is essential. Stock straight out of the box just looks too "plasticky". Most of my stock gets a very gentle weathering. If people don't notice my weathering then I reckon I have got it about right.
This is typical.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/102/3123-081220171023.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=102903)
Back when many vehicles used cast iron brake blocks, everywhere and everything (certainly on the Southern Region) seemed to have a light patina of rust - and not one that could easily be washed off. While I agree that parcels stock rarely passed through the carriage washer, certainly in BR blue days coaches would (or should) have gone through the washer pretty much every day/night. That said, a carriage washer would only keep a clean coach clean; it wouldn't remove accumulated brake block dust, for example, if a vehicle hadn't been washed for a while.
Almost all my BR stock has been weathered, with the exception of some locos and a newly arrived coach (which will be weathered in due course). I'm not convinced by Farish's factory weathering, but it does at least take off the sheen. Most of my vehicles have been weathered by TMC, but I have had a go at some HEAs myself. I'm reticent, though, partly because I don't have an airbrush and partly because I've seen too much weathering that I don't like... including a couple of vehicles of my own that have ended up, to my taste, seriously over weathered...
I prefer to weather everything, not just stock but scenery, buildings, etc as nothing kept clean in the days of steam. The parcels stuff looks good!
Dave
I cannot argue that weathered stock is another tick in the box towards a "proper model railway". Some things like Seacows actually drive me mad at how clean they are and how awful the factory interior is.
My problem is threefold:
1) Every piece of stock I own is pristine and therefore I have a hell of a mountain to climb to bring it all in line to a common standard of weathering.
2) I am very fussy about weathering. Mercig can make stuff that is achingly beautiful but 99% of factory weathered stuff (Dapol silver bullets being a notable exception) is horrid to my eyes.
3) Given how rare / expensive some bits can be (aforementioned Dutch Seacows), there is no way I would do it myself. Therefore professionals needed. Therefore expensive.
One day, one day.
Skyline2uk
Quote from: Southerngooner on December 08, 2020, 07:22:24 PM
I prefer to weather everything, not just stock but scenery, buildings, etc as nothing kept clean in the days of steam. The parcels stuff looks good!
Dave
I have a mix of pristine and weathered (badly by me) stock and locomotives.
I grew up in the early 60s when everything was dirty, tatty, grimy, filthy and run down so that's why I like things on my railways to look that way.
My own attempt at weathering (stock and buildings) is never dirty enough and so, to me, some of the professionally weathered locos/stock look too neatly weathered.
That is in no way meant as a criticism but just the way I see things. I remember grease, grime, soot, rust and broken wagon timbers everywhere with loco numbers difficult to read and name/number plates missing. It was often difficult to tell if a carriage was maroon or green!
So, yes.....I like weathered layouts - the grimier the better.
Cheers
Martin
I quite like a bit of brown on under frames to remove the sheen. Farish's factory 'weathering', consisting of a waft of brown on the whole model looks awful.
I often think about sending some of my rakes off for weathering, but if you use powders and the like it's quite easy to reverse any 'male chicken' (changed by forum) ups with a bit of warm water.
Mixing up two threads here, but it was noted in the Farish 8F thread that a sound chip was over £100. To my mind I'd rather pay someone £50 to weather a loco than add sound. Much better value, but obviously not for all.
Dave
Quote from: Southerngooner on December 09, 2020, 08:44:47 AM
Mixing up two threads here, but it was noted in the Farish 8F thread that a sound chip was over £100. To my mind I'd rather pay someone £50 to weather a loco than add sound. Much better value, but obviously not for all.
Dave
In fairness, it's not the sound chip that is £100. It's the chip, the cost and hassle of gaining access to record the sounds, the wages of said person recording the sounds, and the sequencing and programming of the sounds to work in concert with what the locomotive is doing on the model railway at the time, the seamless transitions between sounds, the testing of it all and adjustment where needed, etc, etc.
In the grand scheme of things I thing an extra £100 is reasonable, and I understand it's cheaper than buying a seperate chip and a seperate sound project and fitting it yourself (it certainly used to be but I haven't checked recently.) Like just about everything to do with model railways, particularly UK N Gauge, I don't think anyone is getting rich off it, but hopefully someone is making a living from it.
Best
Scott.
So far there's only one forum member I've used to weather a loco as I'd seen pics of his work. I do tend to buy factory weathered locos where offered but agree most are pretty poor, with the best being the Dapol class 22 IMHO. I've had a stab at weathering some Dapol mineral wagons but the results were far below the standards I've seen from others, so wouldn't trust myself on a loco :no:
When done well weathering can certainly add to the look of Locos and Rolling Stock, the problem is with the done well bit, many, myself included don't know when to stop
many end up lust looking like a muddy brush stroke ridden blob.
I learned to weather in my Military modelling days so know if I was to try it would just look like its been dragged from a muddy battle field.
Mind you even I will do it on wagons but Locos and coaches stay as new.
NGM
I'm with njee20 on this, as a bit of a dusting with various powders can give a good effect without the permanency. And if you overdo it , it can be easily removed. The only drawback is that it can look somewhat forensic if you haven't cleaned all your finger prints off before application.
I think it depends a lot on what era you are modelling, and what type of stock you are trying to weather. If you are modelling the end of steam, say 1945 to 1965, locos were very poorly maintained and there is no such thing as too much weathering. The cabside number might have been given an occasional wipe but that was it. @GScaleBruce (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3603) is right about coaching stock - coaches got more attention, but the frames were permanently dirty.
I'm no expert but this is my attempt at weathering a renumbered 8f, purchased off the Nporium (thanks, @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) :) ):
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/103/2975-091220121941.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=103080)
Apart from the shiny wheels and motion, which I need to work on a bit more, I feel it looks more authentic than the too-even factory weathering from Farish, as on the WD:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/103/2975-091220122006.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=103081)
Incidentally, it wasn't till I took a picture of the 8f that I noticed the stray cat-hair attached to the firebox!!
Cheers,
Chris
Quote from: Papyrus on December 09, 2020, 12:43:42 PM
I'm no expert but this is my attempt at weathering a renumbered 8f, purchased off the Nporium (thanks, @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) :) ):
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/103/2975-091220121941.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=103080)
Strange - when it left me I'm sure it was in LMS livery :confused2: ;D
I guess weathering's not a high priority to me, but I do remember before I took my layout abroad for the first time back in 2003 I selected all the stock that would be going and made sure things like bogies and underframes had a light treatment with dirt and rust powders, roofs had a light dusting etc. just to unify things a bit with the layout itself.
I'm not a fan of painted weathering, but I do like the powders as they're not 100% permanent yet have stood the test of time. One day I need to do something with all the rest of the stock..... big task!
Would someone kindly refer me to a source for the powders that have been mentioned by a few people here? Also, I'd like to purchase a small quantity of acrylic paint for some rails that I've added to my layout. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
Leon
@Leon (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6724) The ones I have are Carrs modelling powders. I bought them way back in the early 00s, a selection of colours for mud, dirt, rust, coal dust, ash etc.
@Leon (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6724) Here are some paints I've used in my small attempts at weathering stock. I've not used powders as I always believed they required sealing with an overlacquer of some sort.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/65/264-270518121531-657581802.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/65/264-270518121528-657561288.jpeg)
Quote from: Newportnobby on December 09, 2020, 09:43:24 PM
I've not used powders as I always believed they required sealing with an overlacquer of some sort.
I've never sealed the powders I used and they've lasted fine for well over 15 years. The pigments stick well enough, though obviously too much handling will take off a little here-and-there.
This is the sort of weathering I go for, just a bit of underframe treatment and maybe a few bodyside crevices and roof dirt.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/5885-311217192816.jpeg)
Quote from: Leon on December 09, 2020, 08:52:17 PM
Would someone kindly refer me to a source for the powders that have been mentioned by a few people here? Also, I'd like to purchase a small quantity of acrylic paint for some rails that I've added to my layout. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
Leon
There are various brands - Noch, MIG, Humbrol, Life Colour, Carrs, Tamiya. Not sure what will be easily available that side of the pond.
Quote from: ntpntpntp on December 09, 2020, 09:47:18 PM
Quote from: Newportnobby on December 09, 2020, 09:43:24 PM
I've not used powders as I always believed they required sealing with an overlacquer of some sort.
I've never sealed the powders I used and they've lasted fine for well over 15 years. The pigments stick well enough, though obviously too much handling will take off a little here-and-there.
It's only ignorance has led me down that road. I just had visions of mucky fingers and prints all over the powdered item. I don't know what Farish use but that seems to come off too. :hmmm:
I'm in awe of some of the weathering I've seen since joining the forum. I doubt I could ever do it well enough to satisfy me, so I plan to leave everything in pristine showroom condition. My excuse is that the Rhätische Bahn keeps all their stock very clean, even by Swiss standards. And I can't bear the thought of throwing paint at a brand new, expensive, purchase.
There is some absolutely awesome weathering on show on this Forum. My own attempts have been restricted to tentative paint based attempts on Peco and NGS kits I have made myself. It will be a long time before I feel competent enough to tackle anything more expensive. Hats off to everyone who so convincingly weather their stock.
James Makin's workbench thread on RMWeb is truly inspirational. It's all OO gauge, but the techniques obviously transfer. He's brutal in the amount of paint he applies, before wiping most of it off!
Up to now, most of the weathering I have done has been with enamel paints and dirty thinners but, having seen some of the fabulous examples on this forum, I would like to try something better. I can't get on with washes - they are too heavy for my liking - so I am thinking of having a go with powders. I've done a bit of research and I was surprised at how many companies make powders - Peco, Humbrol, DCC concepts and Tamiya to name just 4. What I would like to know is - does anybody have any recommendations as to which is best, especially for someone just dipping his toes in it, so to speak? Is there a good starter kit?
Any ideas gratefully received.
Cheers,
Chris
Chris.maybe lifecolors. Something like this https://www.scalemodelscenery.co.uk/lifecolor-rail-weathering-acrylic-paint-set-22ml-x-6-10588-p.asp (https://www.scalemodelscenery.co.uk/lifecolor-rail-weathering-acrylic-paint-set-22ml-x-6-10588-p.asp) Theres a video here https://youtu.be/RQNZT7l-Sdk (https://youtu.be/RQNZT7l-Sdk) Hope this helps . Chris . Link again
Quote from: Papyrus on March 21, 2021, 03:15:02 PM
........ I am thinking of having a go with powders. I've done a bit of research and I was surprised at how many companies make powders - Peco, Humbrol, DCC concepts and Tamiya to name just 4. What I would like to know is - does anybody have any recommendations as to which is best, especially for someone just dipping his toes in it, so to speak? Is there a good starter kit?
I've tried weathering powders more than once and just can't get on with them. I've applied them to good effect but then you give the model a dusting of varnish to seal the weathering in and it just disappears into the moisture of the spray. Trouble is if you don't seal it in it comes off on your fingers when you move the model and before you know it a nicely weathered loco has spotless area in the centre of the tanks where you've handled it.
I'm sure others have had more success but I've gone back to washes etc.
Quote from: Leon on December 09, 2020, 08:52:17 PM
Would someone kindly refer me to a source for the powders that have been mentioned by a few people here? Also, I'd like to purchase a small quantity of acrylic paint for some rails that I've added to my layout. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
Leon
I just use ordinary artist's chalks, e.g. Winsor & Newton, make a mark where I want the weathering and then spread it around with a fairly stiff brush. Great for rust, rising damp and mucky dust.
Peter
Quote from: Papyrus on March 21, 2021, 03:15:02 PM
..
I was surprised at how many companies make powders - Peco, Humbrol, DCC concepts and Tamiya to name just 4. What I would like to know is - does anybody have any recommendations as to which is best, especially for someone just dipping his toes in it, so to speak? Is there a good starter kit?
...
I've never used Peco. I like the Humbrol jar - the powder stays in the jar unless I remove some, making for a tidier workspace than most others. DCC Concept powders are very fine - they go everywhere when you're not looking, even with the lid screwed firmly closed. Tamiya are very dry, more a hard paste than a powder - good for working into detail. I use all three for different effect. I often use powders in combination with washes. Sometimes I'll wet down powders with acrylic thinners to make a wash.
The main thing I find with any weathering is to work in short bursts - don't slog away for hours in one session. The best way to imitate nature is to copy it as closely as possible. Real prototype weathering takes time and is built up of many effects (decay, corrosion, damage, fading, dirt and contamination, etc.) over many seasons as stock travels around many regions.
:beers:
/ADDIT: Aswell as the above three I can recommend MIG, AK Interactive, Zero Paints and a new find Abteilung 502.
Many thanks for all the suggestions. The Lifecolor set looks like a good place to start. If I get on all right with it, it will give me the confidence to try some of the other ideas.
Cheers,
Chris
I use the Noch set, because it was cheap! It's good, although lacking an all purpose brown, I end up mixing one from a rusty/brick red and black which works. Can easily make a wash with a drop of water. I agree with Gareth that they can be prone to coming off if you handle an item lots, but I'm fortunate in that I don't really have to handle my stock, so I've left them unsealed!
I tend to use the Tamiya weathering compact sets A and B applied with the supplied sponge applicator or a cotton bud. Very easy to apply and blend the colours to achieve desired shading without powder going everywhere. Also, being slightly greasy the effect is more "robust" and stands up to handling well.
I've never really got on with weathering powders. I just give my diesels and coaches a blast of quit thin weathered black on the roofs so some of the original colour can be seen underneath and frame dirt on the chassis. My memory of most stock is that the sides were pretty clean due to regular trips through the wash plants.
Quote from: Chris Morris on March 23, 2021, 09:19:29 AM
My memory of most stock is that the sides were pretty clean due to regular trips through the wash plants.
I think that really only applies to passenger stock though, Chris.
Parcels stock was always pretty filthy and freight stock just purely disgusting most of the time!
But, then again, I'm talking 1960s.
I think Mick's last comment is actually quite pertinent. If you model BR in the 50's and 60's, or even before those decades, steam will have been the prevalent source of motive power for the railway and coal the prime domestic heating source. As such that would have created a lot of dirty airborne particles than had to land somewhere, and if you didn't clean them off.......well, just look at carriage roofs and goods stock in general.
Once you get to the 70's and beyond you are into much more diesel and electric power, plus gas central heating in houses, so the air is generally cleaner, therefore less to land and make things dirty. That's not to say that diesels and electrics don't get dirty, but it's a different kind of dirt and thus a different kind of weathering.
I bought the Tim Shackleton book on weathering rolling stock and there is only one N gauge specific chapter, in which he opines that in N detailed weathering is less important than the overall effect, which I tend to agree with. I've tried to make mineral wagons look rusty, and paint timber to look like unpainted, but all of this tends to get lost in the bigger picture. If you have a small layout, and like to take a lot of close up photos then I think you are going to notice detailed weathering a lot more than on a larger layout where there is more to look at.
I've mentioned before my recent use of acrylic paint, immediately rubbed off with a cotton bud, which I find very simple, but what makes it for me is a coat of truly matt varnish after, which really makes it look lifelike to me. You don't normally get a lot of reflection off of a dirty wagon. I have found the Revell acrylic matt sprays to be very good in this respect, up there with Dullcote in my view.
So don't assume all weathering is the same. The best thing is always to try and copy the real thing, not what another modeller has done (unless you can reference that back to the real thing of course!) as what they have done may just be their idea of what it would look like. Having seen some attempts at weathering (and scenery too) I think some people must have very different views of colour which must be part of how the brain and eyes work. That's not a criticism but an observation, as we are all different!
Dave
Totally agree with that last paragraph - most (non-passenger) stock doesn't just get uniformly brown, you get a huge array of weathering patterns depending on all sorts of things; that's before you get into fading, rust etc. It's why Farish's historic tendency to just give a general 'waft of brown' is a shame!
Quote from: njee20 on March 23, 2021, 11:39:53 AM
It's why Farish's historic tendency to just give a general 'waft of brown' is a shame!
I tend to view most factory weathering as a "starting point". One of my worst examples is an early Dapol Hymek. Looks like it's been driven through a muddy puddle! More of a splatter than a "waft".
I've used Town and Country Scenics rust paste, which-I think-does the job.
It comes in two flavours, Dark or Light rust; it's water washable, but dries VERY quickly, so needs to be washed off quickly if not to your satisfaction.
I've also used Humbrol coloured washes; and many years ago, Floquil from the USA. The latter, even if it's still available, dries VERY VERY quickly-nasty thinners!
I've also sometimes used a light wash of Revell 'anthracite' acrylic over factory applied loco black; it tones down the slightly shiny factory finish.
For painting a loco kit, or anything else that's supposed to be black, I prefer to use Railmatch or Phoenix 'weathered black' rather than true black.
Martyn