Hi,
Wondering if anyone can assist?
I have a swallow 18pin hst from dapol on order. Believe the ref number is 2d-019-202. I have a coupke of questions?
1. What decoder do you recommend? Do i need 1 or 2?
2. I have heard some of dapols mk3 coaches differ in paint colours depending on batch (eg different roof colours). Any advice on what coaches should match my loco set? I think i am going for a 7 car rake comprised of 2x1st, 1xbuffet, 3x2nd, 1x2nd guard.
Thanks in advance if anyone can help...?
Henry
You'll need two decoders, one in each power car for control of the lights. If you don't want sound then I'd get the Zimo MX618N18, they're only £20 and are great decoders.
Early mk3s did vary a bit, particularly Swallow, but they've settled down, so anything you find now should be fine. Even if not it's a quick fix with a can of paint as the prinicpal variation was to the roofs!
FWIW cross country sets were 2+7, but comprised a single TFO/buffet/4xTSO/TGS, so I'd go for that composition, rather than two TFOs.
Thanks for the reply and that sounds like the decoder to go for as not interested in sound. As for the rake I know it's not prototypical but I'd like it to be indicative of the 8 car sets I don't quite have room for
I thought this was going to be a medical question :-[
Regarding HST formations
As Njee20 posted,
Cross Country (or NE-SW) was
TF-TRSB-TS-TS-TS-TS-TGS
The majority of western region HST were still 2+7 when Swallow was being introduced
TF-TF-(TRFB,TRSB,TRB)-TS-TS-TS-TGS
In 1986 10 western hst's became 8 car but the rest stayed 7 car. Originally the 10 Sets with the 3 window kitchen-buffet (TRFB) car were lengthened but some lost their extra coaches which were used as spares.
It was around 1991 when all Western HST became 8 car using coaches freed up by East coast electrification.
I have used the real catering car codes but these are meaningless unless you are scratch building.
TRFB has 3 windows, first class seating a kitchen and a buffet.
TRSB has 4 windows, standard class and a buffet.
TRB has 4 windows, first class and a buffet.
Just point the seats towards the matching class based on the stripe and you will be fine :)
As usual you're all v helpful. Hattons suggested the Dapol Imperium2 decoder. Anyone any experience of these?
Henners. Re the roof colour ...https://www.dccsupplies.com/item-p-114185/mk3-roof-virgin-tgs (https://www.dccsupplies.com/item-p-114185/mk3-roof-virgin-tgs) . Maybe worth studying the photos here https://railrevisited.blogspot.com/2019/08/info-pictorial-virgin-trains-hsts-1997-2002.html?m=1 (https://railrevisited.blogspot.com/2019/08/info-pictorial-virgin-trains-hsts-1997-2002.html?m=1)
Quote from: Henners84 on October 26, 2020, 11:21:33 AM
As usual you're all v helpful. Hattons suggested the Dapol Imperium2 decoder. Anyone any experience of these?
Don't bother.
The Zimo MX618N18 is within a couple of pence the same price and a
much better decoder.
Steven B.
Quote from: Henners84 on October 26, 2020, 11:21:33 AM
As usual you're all v helpful. Hattons suggested the Dapol Imperium2 decoder. Anyone any experience of these?
Its either the same price, or more expensive than the Zimo decoder suggested in the thread. And the Imperium won't be as good as the Zimo.
- Nigel
Agreed, go with the Zimo, Hattons don't sell Zimo so they won't recommend them.
Regards,
John P
Quote from: crewearpley40 on October 26, 2020, 11:27:42 AM
Henners. Re the roof colour ...https://www.dccsupplies.com/item-p-114185/mk3-roof-virgin-tgs (https://www.dccsupplies.com/item-p-114185/mk3-roof-virgin-tgs) . Maybe worth studying the photos here https://railrevisited.blogspot.com/2019/08/info-pictorial-virgin-trains-hsts-1997-2002.html?m=1 (https://railrevisited.blogspot.com/2019/08/info-pictorial-virgin-trains-hsts-1997-2002.html?m=1)
Wrong livery, Chris. The OP definitely doesn't want the pale Virgin coloured roofs.
I was looking at the 2nd one down BR executive swallow. @njee20 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147) that was what I was looking at not the paler one
Yes, it shows the difference in the picture, but the link is to buy the Virgin roof. Pretty moot, the early Swallow ones were either more blue, or more brown, but they've settled right down.
Only £14 if you're a member of the Dapol Collectors' Club as well!
Hi all,
Thanks again for your help. Having taken the plunge with kernow models I can now report back as follows...
The detail on the models is fantastic. Power cars look great and the lighting works really well. Running seems smooth and speeds seem sensible. There was one snag though with the dummy power car and looks like I am not alone as chandwell model railway has experienced the same here...
https://youtu.be/o5jwYn39IC4
In short, the dummy power car's wheels are not free spinning and the front bogey twists and does not run perpendicular to the rails. It's only marginal but it's enough to derail the dummy car on each curve it takes whilst being pushed (OK when being pulled) as the twisting raises the wheel flanges just above the top of the rails. On removing the body from the the dummy power car this issue goes away so it must be something to do with the fitting of the body onto the chassis plate. Perhaps overspray or something in side the bodyshell is catching and slightly twisting the chassis when fitted? Tempted to have a go at fixing myself but don't want to invalidate the warranty so may have to be returned to be fixed. Anyone else experienced this and how have you fixed? It's the dapol 18 pin version of anyone's wondering.
Other than that there were another couple of issues with some of the coaches. Overall pretty well detailed however it looks like someone sneezed whilst painting one of the orange/red door release lights on the buffet car as the normal accurate painting is just a large splodge. The final interesting point was that one of the first class coaches (no. 41157, 2p-005-220) has a darker grey roof than the other coaches and power cars in the rake I purchased. Also the red and white body stripes are differently shaped. All other coaches have the red stripe as slightly wider than the white, but this has the white slightly wider than the red. I can only assume that this coach has been made in a different factory 'batch' to the other coaches. It doesn't look wrong in isolation but looks wrong in the middle of the rake. Anyway, both coaches to be returned and swapped for cleaner examples.
Henry
The draggy wheels are alleviated by elongating the slot the bogie fits into. This is a problem they've introduced on the newer batches, I suspect because they've made a change to fix the ride height, which was historically too high on the power cars.
Or The draggy wheels are alleviated by sending it back for Dapol to sort their own mess out, why should anyone have to spend that sort of money them have to take a file to it to sort out a defect the maker should be fixing for free.
NGM
Yep, totally valid. But when they don't have stock and/or it's a universal issue the other option is to not have one.
Is that a valid reason to accept a poorly made product, the makers of model railway items must love this I don't care how bad it is, its better than nothing mentality.
Personally I would rather not own one if that was the only option
Thats why I don't own a number of Dapol or Farish Locos.
That's my opinion only I understand, but its an opinion I am still allowed to have one , even on here 8)
NGM
Bizarre comment, of course you're entitled to your opinion.
Only you can decide what is and isn't a valid reason for return an item, and whether you're happier modifying something or simply foregoing it. Production runs are small and manual, so you can get issues. No point getting too worked up about it IMO.
I think it's not on by the manufacturer to sell an item with a known issue that comes up on many items. Why was the product not recalled and modified for example? I think the fact the dummy car derails on any curve I have is sufficient enough to warrant a recall.
Anyway, what's done is done. It doesn't work properly and it needs to get fixed. Still waiting on a reply from kernow models to the email I sent yesterday on this. There is a warranty so should get fixed, just a lot of faff. Tempted to try and fix myself, just don't want to void the warranty. Will ask kernow about self fixing and impact on warranty when they get back to me
For whatever reason it's not something which is occurring on every single model, but I've seen a few reports of it. Clearly not prolific enough to justify a recall. You're totally right that you shouldn't have to accept it, and I'm sure Kernow will see you right - expect to have to return it to DCC Supplies.
If every unit derailed on every curve then I suspect yes, they would be recalled (or rather they'd not have been released), but it's not that prolific, possibly because they're hand assembled, so they're all on a scale from "faultless" to "utterly useless"!
I must admit I do find this aspect of our hobby to be rather bizarre, what other aspect of our life do we accept that a manufacturer charging good money for their product only then to produce faulty or badly designed goods only for the customers to say that ok, I can fix the problems for you and not even charge you for the work.
To me it's just bizarre.
Not for one moment saying all their goods are rubbish or badly designed but they do produce some doozies at times.
For those who are happy to repair their items, is it like that with everything you buy or just railway items.
Ok I admit I have even repaired the odd fault, like loose wires or screws, but if it's got a design fault or a dead motor it's going back asap even if I could fix it.
Ok no more comments on this from me.
Bye
Like so many things I think the answer here is "it depends". Personally I don't mind a little bit of tweaking to get things working just right, but if it's so fundamentally broken as to not work (like the OP's HST) I'd probably return it if nothing obvious. I would check for obvious things first, but there's no reason you should.
I bought my son a bike last week, when it turned up 'ready to ride', it most certainly wasn't, there were a couple of issues in how it had been assembled. Fixing a bike is part and parcel of ownership, so I was happy to tweak it. Similarly I quite enjoy fettling stock, so I'd not return something if it wasn't perfect out of the box. Indeed I spent quite a while yesterday adjusting about half my Dapol silver bullets to get them to stop derailing. My last 3D printer had a seized motor on delivery, and needed some tweaking to get it working, and the last TV I bought needed a firmware update in order to find our Wi-fi and access any of the smart features.
Obviously will all of these I could have demanded replacements, refunds, compensation, whatever. But what would that achieve? As I said, however, if that problem had extended to the TV not turning on then I'd have asked for a replacement. I wouldn't have welded the bike if the frame was broken.
I don't think it's a willingness to accept shoddy workmanship, just a fact that our hobby is a practical one, so within reason I'll apply those skills here needed. It's also a faff having to return stuff, even if you can get replacements.
I agree, it's a faff trying to return stuff. Also, if returned it could come back with another problem. Eg the video I showed a link to, the guy there returned his model and the issue was fixed but, somehow in the fixing process, the dummy power cars lights came back a lot less bright vs before.
I'm happy to do the work because it then removes that faff. Also, no point going to the time and expense of returning if an easy fix I can do at home. Guess my reluctance currently is that I am slightly scared I might botch the repair not having too much knowledge of what to do. My fear is that I try and fix it, make a mistake, and then I have a product that I can't return or get money back on.
Going back to a point from earlier... It's not right that with our hobby sometimes we have to accept sub standard products. But then, who else makes an alternative product if I want an hst? I can buy an older Graham farish version but the detail is a step down. I suppose at the back of my head that if I buy from a reputable retailer and there is a fundamental issue with the product (eg derails when run) I should be able to return it for a it to be fixed. So the logic I suppose is (I) I want an hst and there really is one manufacturer that makes it and then (ii) it'll work and that's great or it'll not work in which case I should be able to have it fixed under warranty.
But that is the reality. You can return it under warranty. Dapol have a 2 year "no quibble warranty". The problem comes with items that are no longer available. I imagine the HST chassis parts are probably available, so I'm sure it'll be sorted. You're totally right in that it shouldn't happen, but again this isn't universal failure. I don't know how many Dapol HSTs are out there, but it's going to be thousands. I've read about this problem, to a greater or lesser degree, from about 5 people. It's frustrating, but you're going through the channels to get it sorted.
Hi Henry
Just read your post now, about the first class coach looking different to the others (vehicle no 41157, item 2P-005-220) - having a darker grey roof and having the wider white stripe and narrower red stripe.
This model is from an earlier batch released in 2014 - some retailers still have a few of this batch in stock. Dapol released several batches of InterCity Swallow and Executive livery coaches with the red and white bands the incorrect width (broad white band when it should be narrow, and narrow red band when it should be broad!). The batch released in 2018 finally got the width of the red and white bands correct but I have noticed that the light grey at the bottom of the coach ("Exective Light Grey") is more yellow in the 2018 batch than previous releases. I think the light grey was actually correct in the earlier batches.
Dapol only released one Trailer First in InterCity Swallow in the 2018 batch - 41057, item no 2P-005-223 - so if you want two first class trailers in the rake which all match, you'll have to have two with the same numbers.
Hope that helps.
Tom.
Quote from: Henners84 on November 09, 2020, 09:36:49 PM
Other than that there were another couple of issues with some of the coaches. Overall pretty well detailed however it looks like someone sneezed whilst painting one of the orange/red door release lights on the buffet car as the normal accurate painting is just a large splodge. The final interesting point was that one of the first class coaches (no. 41157, 2p-005-220) has a darker grey roof than the other coaches and power cars in the rake I purchased. Also the red and white body stripes are differently shaped. All other coaches have the red stripe as slightly wider than the white, but this has the white slightly wider than the red. I can only assume that this coach has been made in a different factory 'batch' to the other coaches. It doesn't look wrong in isolation but looks wrong in the middle of the rake. Anyway, both coaches to be returned and swapped for cleaner examples.
Henry