Having had my car for some seven months, yesterday I finally plucked up courage to try the automatic parking assist feature. All went well initially, although it seemed a little fast for my liking, and it was something to behold watching the steering wheel do it's own thing spinning left, and then right as it manouvered the car into the space outside my garage. I said it seemed fast, so was just applying the brake and then crunch, the back made contact with the gate post :'(. Just scratches to the plastic bumper fortunately, and a dented pride, but needless to say, I won't be using it again. I've been parking in the same spot for 31 years-ish, and never hit a thing. Bloody technology! :-X
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/100/5583-201020130004.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=100752)
Quite ironic that there appears to be a sensor right in the middle of the damage. If it's 7 months from new I'd take it back and say it's defective :thumbsup:
Probably made by the same factory that Dapol use :D
Sadly, I've had it seven months, but it's a 2017 car. :'(
Certainly doesn't hold out much hope for the safety of self-driving cars!
Even if they managed to make self-driving cars 100% safe, they'd still not be practical. Imagine setting out on the morning commute, only to be repeatedly slammed against the seatbelt, as cyclists, motorcyclists, drivers of normal cars and pedestrians, who can't be bothered to wait a moment, cut you up, speed through a junction or step out in front, knowing that the vehicle will stop. The only way I can see to prevent this, is for vehicles to be programmed to occasionally, randomly, under such circumstances, stop just too late - not enough to more than hurt, bruise or cause minor damage, but enough to discourage such actions. It is only the thought that a human driver may not stop in time that prevents such actions being common now.
What a bizarre notion. You think the only thing that stops total anarchy on the roads is the threat of collision?
Anyway - even 3 years old it may still be in warranty (or so close they'll honour it), as Trainfish said there is clearly a parking sensor square in the middle of that damage, which tallies with it not working. Do you get any sort of proximity reading from that particular sensor?
Mrs njee20 has the self parking and it is a bit surreal. Doesn't do the speed though, merely the steering, so you still control how quickly it does it. Not a fan myself. It also only likes spaces big enough to park a large bus in.
Being in the my industry I am often asked why planes can (and indeed have been for decades) fly themselves and yet cars cannot drive themselves.
The answers can be found above. No matter how busy our sky's are (or rather, were :(), you don't get aircraft close to each other in the sky like cars on a road. The only time they are "queuing" and "giving way" is when they bumble around airports and yes, that's still done by the squishy bit sat up front. And yes they often get it wrong....somewhat more expensive than the clang above (no disrespect to OP).
Just too many variables when there are some auto driving cars and some manual driving cars, it's not going to happen any time soon!
Skyline2uk
At risk of continuing that tangent there's also the fascinating hypothetical morality questions around the car deciding whether to kill its occupants or a pedestrian, and at what point that balance shifts! If a whole school ran in front of the car should it swerve and crash?!
Quote from: njee20 on October 20, 2020, 05:16:49 PM
At risk of continuing that tangent there's also the fascinating hypothetical morality questions around the car deciding whether to kill its occupants or a pedestrian, and at what point that balance shifts! If a whole school ran in front of the car should it swerve and crash?!
That one's a bit of a 'poorly understood science by the media' one. In engineering terms, if the AI driving the car had to make that decision it means it's already driving too fast for the conditions and has failed. It's exactly the same moral issue as a human driver in that scenario. You've already killed someone by driving poorly, it's just a matter of who.
Or simply put. An Optimist says the glass is half full, a Pessimist says it's half empty. The Engineer says it's twice as large as it needs to be :)
Quote from: zwilnik on October 20, 2020, 05:34:16 PM
Or simply put. An Optimist says the glass is half full, a Pessimist says it's half empty. The Engineer says it's twice as large as it needs to be :)
This engineer says you need to pour more in the glass. Half measures huh!
Quote from: zwilnik on October 20, 2020, 05:34:16 PM
Quote from: njee20 on October 20, 2020, 05:16:49 PM
At risk of continuing that tangent there's also the fascinating hypothetical morality questions around the car deciding whether to kill its occupants or a pedestrian, and at what point that balance shifts! If a whole school ran in front of the car should it swerve and crash?!
That one's a bit of a 'poorly understood science by the media' one. In engineering terms, if the AI driving the car had to make that decision it means it's already driving too fast for the conditions and has failed. It's exactly the same moral issue as a human driver in that scenario. You've already killed someone by driving poorly, it's just a matter of who.
Or simply put. An Optimist says the glass is half full, a Pessimist says it's half empty. The Engineer says it's twice as large as it needs to be :)
Whilst I know what you mean, until you control all the variables in the system there remains a chance, although it will of course be vanishingly small. The alternative is that self driving cars do not exceed walking pace, and stop whenever other vehicles are nearby. Although that technically 'sacrifices' the occupants anyway! Any engineer who thinks there is zero chance of collision (and therefore a potential 'decision' to be made) is wrong.
One of the difficulties of automating cars is the sheer number of variables in the system. Much easier to automate trains.
That is a real shame and so frustrating.
Personally speaking I have no desire for automated cars that drive and/or park themselves. I will make an exception for Climate Control though. ;)
This is not so much driven by a fear of the technology (although, as someone who has spent their entire career in the software industry I would not trust it) but rather I enjoy driving my car. If I wanted to be a passenger then I would get a taxi, bus or train. Even automatic gearboxes are step too far for me although sadly I think the gear shift will become a thing of the past.
My biggest bug bear is the replacement of all the knobs and switches in new cars by a touch screen. IMHO I believe they offer a less tactile and harder to use experience. In addition, I fear they will prove to be dangerous especially in right hand drive vehicles. If you are not allowed to use a phone whilst driving then how on earth is a tablet any better?
Ah well, I guess this is progress and I am just showing my age... Maybe that is why I like steam engines. :D
Kind regards
Paddy
Quote from: Malc on October 20, 2020, 05:41:18 PM
Quote from: zwilnik on October 20, 2020, 05:34:16 PM
Or simply put. An Optimist says the glass is half full, a Pessimist says it's half empty. The Engineer says it's twice as large as it needs to be :)
This engineer says you need to pour more in the glass. Half measures huh!
This engineer says you need a bigger glass. Maybe something like this which holds 2.5 pints :thumbsup: :beers:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/100/262-201020192407-10077129.jpeg)
Quote from: zwilnik on October 20, 2020, 05:34:16 PM
Quote from: njee20 on October 20, 2020, 05:16:49 PM
At risk of continuing that tangent there's also the fascinating hypothetical morality questions around the car deciding whether to kill its occupants or a pedestrian, and at what point that balance shifts! If a whole school ran in front of the car should it swerve and crash?!
That one's a bit of a 'poorly understood science by the media' one. In engineering terms, if the AI driving the car had to make that decision it means it's already driving too fast for the conditions and has failed. It's exactly the same moral issue as a human driver in that scenario. You've already killed someone by driving poorly, it's just a matter of who.
Not at all. If an AI car (or a normal one) is approaching a green light, where there is a red light for pedestrians, it cannot be expected to slow so far that even in the last second, it could stop if a pedestrian suddenly set off against the lights. It is not that the AI has failed, it is that someone else has broken the rules. At that point the decision becomes do you risk the occupants of the vehicle, that have themselves done nothing wrong or the pedestrian who has.
Quote from: stevewalker on October 20, 2020, 07:37:40 PM
Quote from: zwilnik on October 20, 2020, 05:34:16 PM
Quote from: njee20 on October 20, 2020, 05:16:49 PM
At risk of continuing that tangent there's also the fascinating hypothetical morality questions around the car deciding whether to kill its occupants or a pedestrian, and at what point that balance shifts! If a whole school ran in front of the car should it swerve and crash?!
That one's a bit of a 'poorly understood science by the media' one. In engineering terms, if the AI driving the car had to make that decision it means it's already driving too fast for the conditions and has failed. It's exactly the same moral issue as a human driver in that scenario. You've already killed someone by driving poorly, it's just a matter of who.
Not at all. If an AI car (or a normal one) is approaching a green light, where there is a red light for pedestrians, it cannot be expected to slow so far that even in the last second, it could stop if a pedestrian suddenly set off against the lights. It is not that the AI has failed, it is that someone else has broken the rules. At that point the decision becomes do you risk the occupants of the vehicle, that have themselves done nothing wrong or the pedestrian who has.
In which case, if the AI is following the rules the same as a sane driver would (which is always to apply caution around pedestrians) then you hit the pedestrian if nothing else can be done. You don't swerve off the road and kill your occupants. Same as with a real driver, you do an emergency stop.
As far as self driving cars in terms of real practicality though, the future is essentially when humans are banned from driving, at least in city areas. Then the self driving cars can work more like trains and be a lot more safe and efficient.
Ooops - damage! How much has been spent developing this 'technology'? That's why the only self-driving vehicle I'd ever want to travel in is called a train!
As far as I can see the only beneficiaries are going to be lawyers
Quote from: KevTheBusDriver on October 20, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
Ooops - damage! How much has been spent developing this 'technology'? That's why the only self-driving vehicle I'd ever want to travel in is called a train!
Please do not take this question as anything other than genuine interest in my part; Have you flown on a commercial jet in the last 30 years? Chances are a very high % of that flight was flown by software.
Skyline2uk
Quote from: zwilnik on October 20, 2020, 07:42:16 PM
Quote from: stevewalker on October 20, 2020, 07:37:40 PM
Quote from: zwilnik on October 20, 2020, 05:34:16 PM
Quote from: njee20 on October 20, 2020, 05:16:49 PM
At risk of continuing that tangent there's also the fascinating hypothetical morality questions around the car deciding whether to kill its occupants or a pedestrian, and at what point that balance shifts! If a whole school ran in front of the car should it swerve and crash?!
That one's a bit of a 'poorly understood science by the media' one. In engineering terms, if the AI driving the car had to make that decision it means it's already driving too fast for the conditions and has failed. It's exactly the same moral issue as a human driver in that scenario. You've already killed someone by driving poorly, it's just a matter of who.
Not at all. If an AI car (or a normal one) is approaching a green light, where there is a red light for pedestrians, it cannot be expected to slow so far that even in the last second, it could stop if a pedestrian suddenly set off against the lights. It is not that the AI has failed, it is that someone else has broken the rules. At that point the decision becomes do you risk the occupants of the vehicle, that have themselves done nothing wrong or the pedestrian who has.
In which case, if the AI is following the rules the same as a sane driver would (which is always to apply caution around pedestrians) then you hit the pedestrian if nothing else can be done. You don't swerve off the road and kill your occupants. Same as with a real driver, you do an emergency stop.
As far as self driving cars in terms of real practicality though, the future is essentially when humans are banned from driving, at least in city areas. Then the self driving cars can work more like trains and be a lot more safe and efficient.
But what if it's not one pedestrian who steps out within the braking distance, but 5 children, not looking. The car can't stop. You can't apply the same logic as a human driver (sane or not) because their response will not be the same. That's the exact scenario I said. It's not "media misunderstanding science" it's actually a very interesting facet of the software development!
Quote from: Paddy on October 20, 2020, 07:13:32 PM
That is a real shame and so frustrating.
Personally speaking I have no desire for automated cars that drive and/or park themselves. I will make an exception for Climate Control though. ;)
This is not so much driven by a fear of the technology (although, as someone who has spent their entire career in the software industry I would not trust it) but rather I enjoy driving my car. If I wanted to be a passenger then I would get a taxi, bus or train. Even automatic gearboxes are step too far for me although sadly I think the gear shift will become a thing of the past.
My biggest bug bear is the replacement of all the knobs and switches in new cars by a touch screen. IMHO I believe they offer a less tactile and harder to use experience. In addition, I fear they will prove to be dangerous especially in right hand drive vehicles. If you are not allowed to use a phone whilst driving then how on earth is a tablet any better?
Totally agree on touchscreens, you have to look at them. Physical buttons are easier to use without looking.
Like you I like driving, and have little desire for a self driving car, even if that means spending 90% of my life plodding along at 30mph behind the car in front! I do like my automatic though. It's got paddles if I want to feel a bit more involved, but it makes for very easy driving. They rarely get used, even if one gets a chance for a bit more 'spirited' driving. Always below the speed limit of course!
Quote from: Skyline2uk on October 20, 2020, 09:53:40 PM
Quote from: KevTheBusDriver on October 20, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
Ooops - damage! How much has been spent developing this 'technology'? That's why the only self-driving vehicle I'd ever want to travel in is called a train!
Please do not take this question as anything other than genuine interest in my part; Have you flown on a commercial jet in the last 30 years? Chances are a very high % of that flight was flown by software.
Skyline2uk
Fortunately there is loads of empty sky up there and no pedestrians. I have been on flights where they do their statutory hands off landing and the plane gets slammed down, but usually pilots do their bit at both ends of the flight. In fact the definition of a good pilot is one that has the same number of take offs as landings.
I hate driving, full stop (said he, having just returned from a 500km round trip up the coast of NSW). My car is automatic, which is just as well, as after my ankle operation, there's no way I could operate a clutch pedal.
However, there is no way I would trust automatic parking, the reason for this being illustrated by the OP.
I hate driving too and don't have a car but sometimes I have to drive my wife's car.
It has a system that detects when you wander out of the lane you're in, or onto the hard shoulder, and the steering wheel moves on its own to correct your trajectory.
I hate it ! It makes me jump when the steering wheel moves without me turning it.
In my opinion that is dangerous.
Having been a Sales Manager (all mouth and motorway) and having put 100,000 miles each on 4 cars (cheapskate company) + my own personal mileage I consider I've driven at least to the moon and back. I just love driving but the thought of how a self drive car would act on an English motorway with the current standard of driving makes me shudder. I wonder how many appointments I'd miss :hmmm:
Here's another thought. Build the self drive cars with access to the controls by police forces and we wouldn't have these high speed chases in which innocents get caught :D
Quote from: Malc on October 20, 2020, 11:04:49 PM
... In fact the definition of a good pilot is one that has the same number of take offs as landings.
So all the bad ones are still up there then :)
Until I retired two years ago (great timing on my part!), I was doing 125+ miles a day commute to Reading. The M4 was a nightmare especially after Newbury but modern cars are warm, safe, smooth and very easy to drive. The TomTom did its best to avoid the worst delays and I just popped the wireless on and made my way calmly. It never ceased to amaze me how many people were in a rush to get to their graves. Despite my personal dislike for auto driving cars, one would have to admit that they cannot be much worse than some of the exploits I saw on the M4!
I suppose BMW will have to change its strapline from "The Ultimate Driving Machine" to "The Ultimate Driverless Machine". :D
Kind regards
Paddy
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 21, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
I hate driving too and don't have a car but sometimes I have to drive my wife's car.
It has a system that detects when you wander out of the lane you're in, or onto the hard shoulder, and the steering wheel moves on its own to correct your trajectory.
Yep, I also have that, and hate it, got switched off on its second journey! It wasn't a very positive correction (that I found), but it would certainly provide a marked 'resistance' to the wheel if you moved toward the centre line.
Mine also beeps very loudly if it thinks you've not seen something and might collide - so if a car in front indicates and slows down, but you don't match their speed (becuase they're about to get out of the way and you're not right behind them) you get this massive red exclamation mark taking up the entire dashboard, I guess it's designed to make you jump, in case you're actually not paying atteniton, but it's happened three times, and terrified me (for all the wrong reasons) each time! Did it once for someone on a ladder beside the road, presumably thought I was going to hit them or something.
Quote from: njee20 on October 21, 2020, 01:18:42 PM
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 21, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
I hate driving too and don't have a car but sometimes I have to drive my wife's car.
It has a system that detects when you wander out of the lane you're in, or onto the hard shoulder, and the steering wheel moves on its own to correct your trajectory.
Yep, I also have that, and hate it, got switched off on its second journey! It wasn't a very positive correction (that I found), but it would certainly provide a marked 'resistance' to the wheel if you moved toward the centre line.
Mine also beeps very loudly if it thinks you've not seen something and might collide - so if a car in front indicates and slows down, but you don't match their speed (becuase they're about to get out of the way and you're not right behind them) you get this massive red exclamation mark taking up the entire dashboard, I guess it's designed to make you jump, in case you're actually not paying atteniton, but it's happened three times, and terrified me (for all the wrong reasons) each time! Did it once for someone on a ladder beside the road, presumably thought I was going to hit them or something.
Ah yes, the danger of a "false positive", at least you have turned off the wheel thing. The "alert you are going to hit something" could become a classic case of the electronic "boy who cried wolf".
As with all electronic nannies, this sort of thing needs very very careful thought in terms of "human factors", lest it cause an accident.
And to think I get annoyed when my Focus suggest when it's time to change gear!
Skyline2uk
This reminds of tyre pressure monitor I had on one of my Audis. The damn thing was forever reporting a low tyre but not once was it right! In fact, the one time I had a puncture it did not spot it. :confused1:
Kind regards
Paddy
Quote from: njee20 on October 20, 2020, 10:41:27 PM
I do like my automatic though. It's got paddles if I want to feel a bit more involved
Helpful in flooding situations :thumbsup:
Quote from: njee20 on October 21, 2020, 01:18:42 PM
Mine also beeps very loudly if it thinks you've not seen something and might collide - so if a car in front indicates and slows down, but you don't match their speed (becuase they're about to get out of the way and you're not right behind them) you get this massive red exclamation mark taking up the entire dashboard, I guess it's designed to make you jump, in case you're actually not paying atteniton, but it's happened three times, and terrified me (for all the wrong reasons) each time! Did it once for someone on a ladder beside the road, presumably thought I was going to hit them or something.
My last car had that - it complained loudly when I was approaching a farm gateway on the outside of a bend, assuming that the field was the road. It also took objection to a humpbacked bridge - twice, once on the way up and again on the way down the other side. It even complained once when a flaming pigeon flew across the front of the car.
In all cases I'm darned glad I didn't have the next model up - which would, according to the blurb, have also started to apply the brakes.
That's the thing I can't quite understand, it also does the 'adaptive cruise control' thing, where it'll just match the speed of the car infront, going as far as stopping behind them at junctions, so I'd rather expect it to do something other than shout loudly at you. I'm bloody glad it doesn't, mind, that really would be terrifying!
On the radar-guided / adaptive cruise control: Does anybody remember Clarkson talking about that and how it puts the brakes on (and therefore brake lights) to maintain distance on a motorway?
The is linked to the wave-front model of successive cars braking heavier and heavier until you get stationary traffic at some point back down the road, thus causing those phantom traffic jams? Would these get better or worse if every car had that system?
Skyline2uk
Quote from: Skyline2uk on October 21, 2020, 03:45:35 PM
On the radar-guided / adaptive cruise control: Does anybody remember Clarkson talking about that and how it puts the brakes on (and therefore brake lights) to maintain distance on a motorway?
The is linked to the wave-front model of successive cars braking heavier and heavier until you get stationary traffic at some point back down the road, thus causing those phantom traffic jams? Would these get better or worse if every car had that system?
Skyline2uk
Likely worse if they weren't interlinked. The ideal scenario would be all the autonomous cars talking to one another and sharing relative position and speed as well as getting added data from roadside beacons and the net about longer distance conditions. Again, it's effectively turning cars into trains, but hey it works.
Quote from: Skyline2uk on October 21, 2020, 03:45:35 PM
On the radar-guided / adaptive cruise control: Does anybody remember Clarkson talking about that and how it puts the brakes on (and therefore brake lights) to maintain distance on a motorway?
The is linked to the wave-front model of successive cars braking heavier and heavier until you get stationary traffic at some point back down the road, thus causing those phantom traffic jams? Would these get better or worse if every car had that system?
If it worked well then I think better, ultimately the magnification in that effect is due to each successive person in the chain responding more vigorously! I actually quite like it, but avoid using it if there are cars behind (on single carriageway roads) because I worry that it makes a lot of small braking applications which would be distracting. It also does weird things in sharp corners, over compensating by trying to keep distance as the car in front brakes for the corner.
Definitely a technology which will get better, and I guess a sort of step to autonomy.
While I'm moaning about technology on my car that annoys me (I love my car, I should add), "main beam assist". If you put the headlights onto main beam, it has an automatic dimming thing, whereby it'll redirect the beam to avoid dazzling people, it's not a binary on/off, it's like a totally dynamic beam pattern. I'm always convinced that it won't work and that'll be constantly dazzling people. Only way to switch it off once applied is to manually put main beam on, then disengage it, thereby definitely dazzling the car in front! :doh:
QuoteWhile I'm moaning about technology on my car that annoys me (I love my car, I should add), "main beam assist". If you put the headlights onto main beam, it has an automatic dimming thing, whereby it'll redirect the beam to avoid dazzling people, it's not a binary on/off, it's like a totally dynamic beam pattern. I'm always convinced that it won't work and that'll be constantly dazzling people. Only way to switch it off once applied is to manually put main beam on, then disengage it, thereby definitely dazzling the car in front! :doh:
Again from a convo from Clarkson and co (and yes I am aware of the dangers of basing info from a single source), doesn't that system sometimes get confused by reflective signs? I.e dim the lights based on its own reflection?
Skyline2uk
No idea I must say, not driven it enough in the dark to test that, but I haven't found it so far. If I could be guaranteed it wasn't dazzling anyone it's quite impressive, I just feel like it must be.
My car has the adaptive cruise control which works in conjunction with lane guidance. The cruise control I find works very well but the lane guidance takes some getting used to. The system places the car exactly between the nearside and offside lane markings, (in Ireland, a lot of roads have a yellow broken line on the nearside), and I usually feel I am driving too near the centre of the road. The automatic headlights work well too, they usually switch off at just the moment I am thinking an oncoming driver must be being dazzled. They switch on as soon as the oncoming vehicle has passed. They have been 'fooled' a couple of times, but the roads round where I live are a bit twisty and up and down and some of the 'sharp turn' chevrons. a lot of which have been replaced lately, so they are still nice and shiny, have caused the headlights to switch off for a few seconds. But, all in all, I like this new technology.
This all reminds of the line in Top Gun where the pilots are being told how their forebears had become missile dependent and lost the ability to Dog Fight. I can see this happening with driving as the aids become more widespread. We could go through a period where vast numbers of people lose the ability to drive safely with the vehicle under their control!
Kind regards
Paddy
Quote from: Paddy on October 21, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
This all reminds of the line in Top Gun where the pilots are being told how their forebears had become missile dependent and lost the ability to Dog Fight. I can see this happening with driving as the aids become more widespread. We could go through a period where vast numbers of people lose the ability to drive safely with the vehicle under their control!
Kind regards
Paddy
Too true, I'm stuffed if we end up needing to ride horses again.
QuoteWe could go through a period where vast numbers of people lose the ability to drive safely with the vehicle under their control!
thought we was already there
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 21, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
It has a system that detects when you wander out of the lane you're in, or onto the hard shoulder, and the steering wheel moves on its own to correct your trajectory.
I hate it ! It makes me jump when the steering wheel moves without me turning it.
In my opinion that is dangerous.
If it is surprising you when the lane guidance intervenes, that could be taken to imply you are driving without due care and attention. Arguably it is your driving that is dangerous and proving that the system is needed. If you were driving correctly and maintaining correct road position, it would have no need to intervene...
Or that it struggles to distinguish between poor current markings and poorly erased old ones in ever changing roadworks.
Quote from: Paddy on October 21, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
This all reminds of the line in Top Gun where the pilots are being told how their forebears had become missile dependent and lost the ability to Dog Fight. I can see this happening with driving as the aids become more widespread. We could go through a period where vast numbers of people lose the ability to drive safely with the vehicle under their control!
Kind regards
Paddy
Motorway driving in this country is a dogfight (mind you, I found Italy worse as they just use headlights, accelerator and horn).
I get maddened by the auto wipers on my Siesta as it takes away all control even though I set the interval I want them to sweep at. My feeling of when the screen needs a wipe is far more intelligent than rain hitting a sensor. Grrr >:(
Reading all this, I'm starting to like my little Toyota Corolla more and more. It has just the level of technology that suits me - non-adaptive cruise control and a reversing camera.
Trouble is George, the car that started all this is a Toyota Auris Hybrid Estate, essentially a British built Corolla.
Don't get me wrong, I love the car and costs not a lot to own and run. It has all the bells and whistles including most, if not all, the so called "driver aids" mentioned herein, which I'm fine with. It's just that this one feature (park assist) didn't work as well as I expected it to. Of course, it could be that the steering wheel has thrombosis, ............
There is a clot attached to it : ??? :laugh3:
:laughabovepost:
I know that's not true. :thumbsup:
Quote from: PLD on October 21, 2020, 07:53:58 PM
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 21, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
It has a system that detects when you wander out of the lane you're in, or onto the hard shoulder, and the steering wheel moves on its own to correct your trajectory.
I hate it ! It makes me jump when the steering wheel moves without me turning it.
In my opinion that is dangerous.
If it is surprising you when the lane guidance intervenes, that could be taken to imply you are driving without due care and attention. Arguably it is your driving that is dangerous and proving that the system is needed. If you were driving correctly and maintaining correct road position, it would have no need to intervene...
The problem is the system can't differentiate between changing lanes and wandering !
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 22, 2020, 11:33:33 AM
Quote from: PLD on October 21, 2020, 07:53:58 PM
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 21, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
It has a system that detects when you wander out of the lane you're in, or onto the hard shoulder, and the steering wheel moves on its own to correct your trajectory.
I hate it ! It makes me jump when the steering wheel moves without me turning it.
In my opinion that is dangerous.
If it is surprising you when the lane guidance intervenes, that could be taken to imply you are driving without due care and attention. Arguably it is your driving that is dangerous and proving that the system is needed. If you were driving correctly and maintaining correct road position, it would have no need to intervene...
The problem is the system can't differentiate between changing lanes and wandering !
That explains a huge amount. I've always thought the idiots who stay in the 2 overtaking lanes were just thick but now it seems it's the car not allowing them to move back over.
I've got an awful lot of apologizing to do :hmmm:
I have a new Corolla and, without checking the manual, if I remember correctly the lane changing warning can be over ridden by using the necessary indicator.
Yeah it can be overidden on my wife's car.
Must read the manual some time :)
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 22, 2020, 11:33:33 AM
Quote from: PLD on October 21, 2020, 07:53:58 PM
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 21, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
It has a system that detects when you wander out of the lane you're in, or onto the hard shoulder, and the steering wheel moves on its own to correct your trajectory.
I hate it ! It makes me jump when the steering wheel moves without me turning it.
In my opinion that is dangerous.
If it is surprising you when the lane guidance intervenes, that could be taken to imply you are driving without due care and attention. Arguably it is your driving that is dangerous and proving that the system is needed. If you were driving correctly and maintaining correct road position, it would have no need to intervene...
The problem is the system can't differentiate between changing lanes and wandering !
Not even if you indicate before changing lanes?
No, the indicators seem to be independant from the lane guidance system
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 22, 2020, 11:54:42 AM
No, the indicators seem to be independant from the lane guidance system
That's ridiculous - the system could easily use the indicators being active as a declaration of intent to cross a white line.
That's rather like my present and last cars, which have a light flash up in the dash advising you to change gear. However, the system doesn't seem to understand that when ascending a 1 in 3 gradient changing up from 2nd to 3rd is really not a good idea.
The darned things have inclinometers fitted, for the hill start assist function to know when to hold the brakes until the car moves forwards, so one would think it simple to link those to the gearchange advice so that it knows that you're going up a steep hill and doesn't bother advising a gear change.
Same with bends.
The gear change indicator system can't see the double bend 50 yards ahead.
Quote from: chrism on October 22, 2020, 12:03:06 PM
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 22, 2020, 11:54:42 AM
No, the indicators seem to be independant from the lane guidance system
That's ridiculous - the system could easily use the indicators being active as a declaration of intent to cross a white line.
That's how mine (VW) works - if you indicate (either by flicking the indicator stalk or properly applying it) it takes it as an intentional move and deactivates the lane assistance.
I always preferred VWs to Peugeots.
I remember my old Peugeot used to have a bizarre 'feature'; when you indicated right, as you straightened the steering wheel it would indicate left automatically. Apparently it was meant to mean you automatically indicated as you exited a roundabout. I don't think it ever worked in that capacity, just confused everyone any time you pulled out of a junction!
So yes... I can absolutely believe that Peugeot's implementation of lane assist is totally counter intuitive!
I recall my Citroen BX14E which, in all other respects was a great car, but the windscreen washer pipe ran up the length of the single wiper. Come winter, guess what. Yup - the thing froze and was useless as not even engine warming helped. I think it should be mandatory for washer bottles to be automatically heated in low temperatures. I've seen people driving around with just a small cleared bit above the steering wheel ::)
self cancelling indicators on my last bike was enough to confused me,but i did like the reserve tank selector being on the handle bars instead of hidden under the tank
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 22, 2020, 11:33:33 AM
Quote from: PLD on October 21, 2020, 07:53:58 PM
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 21, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
It has a system that detects when you wander out of the lane you're in, or onto the hard shoulder, and the steering wheel moves on its own to correct your trajectory.
I hate it ! It makes me jump when the steering wheel moves without me turning it.
In my opinion that is dangerous.
If it is surprising you when the lane guidance intervenes, that could be taken to imply you are driving without due care and attention. Arguably it is your driving that is dangerous and proving that the system is needed. If you were driving correctly and maintaining correct road position, it would have no need to intervene...
The problem is the system can't differentiate between changing lanes and wandering !
As other's have already said, it knows the difference by correct use of the indicators before making a deliberate manoeuvre. (or do you perchance, drive a BMW?) ::)
Rather than immediately doing down Joe's driving again you can read he's said that no, in his Peugeot the indicator and the Lane assistance are not linked. Which seems insane. But... y'know French electronics.
I only drive in the UK when I visit my Mum, which used to be every 3 months, before Covid.
I drive from Birmingham airport to Tamworth and back on the M42.
Will let you know the dates of my next visit so you can steer clear of me on the road :)
Quote from: joe cassidy on October 23, 2020, 11:42:49 AM
Will let you know the dates of my next visit so you can steer clear of me on the road :)
If we all get the correct cars, they will automatically steer clear of you. :)
Depends if he stays in lane or not...
Interesting piece on the local news about self drive,showed up a flaw with lane guidance,try swerving to avoid an obstacle.