I am thinking about a shunting layout which should allow to be situated also in the UK (maybe using exchangeable structures). Without much of a station, scenery or running track.
Due to space limitations I am looking for short stuff.
So far I have found a fair number of goods wagons like
- Grafar 377-326 Conflat with AF container BR light blue
- Grafar 373-702A 12t ventilated van departemental olive green
- Grafar 377-200 8 plank wagon with coke rail "Birley"
- several Peco and minitrix wagons looking similar to the above mentioned Grafars
Potential locos (already in possession) are
- Lima 4F in Australian livery (all black)
- Grafar 371-980 61xx Prairie tank BR black early emblem
- 2-6-4 tank 80033 black with blue lining...
I am looking now at Graham Farish 371-988 Class64xx Pannier Lined green Late Crest (wheathered).
Would one or more of the above locos be a a reasonable choice for shunting?
Thanks in advance for each piece of advice
Alexander
Hi Alexander,
hope you are well, and all is good with you :thumbsup: ;D :thumbsup:
I don't really know much about the uses of the loco, but as far as the model goes, I have 3 of them, and can confirm that they are lovely models, and run really well.
If you do get one, you should have no trouble with its running :D
Here is one weathered on Windmill Hill
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/5755-080520141351-928432123.jpeg)
All best wishes
Kevin
:beers:
Quote from: AlexanderJesse on September 17, 2020, 02:24:17 PM
I am looking now at Graham Farish 371-988 Class64xx Pannier Lined green Late Crest (wheathered).
The 6400s were mainly used for passenger work on auto-trains. If you want a Pannier tank for shunting, the Dapol 5700 or 8750 pannier tanks would be a better choice.
It depends to some extent on what you are planning to shunt but smaller 0-6-0 tank engines would be more common than larger ones like the 4MT or 4F. The Farish 3F Jinty might be a good choice.
Quote from: Karhedron on September 17, 2020, 03:05:33 PM
Quote from: AlexanderJesse on September 17, 2020, 02:24:17 PM
I am looking now at Graham Farish 371-988 Class64xx Pannier Lined green Late Crest (wheathered).
The 6400s were mainly used for passenger work on auto-trains. If you want a Pannier tank for shunting, the Dapol 5700 or 8750 pannier tanks would be a better choice.
It depends to some extent on what you are planning to shunt but smaller 0-6-0 tank engines would be more common than larger ones like the 4MT or 4F. The Farish 3F Jinty might be a good choice.
The Jinty's definitely a good 'un - although if there's any possibility of pickup issues across points the 4F has pickup on both loco and tender so can be more reliable at slow running.
When you say 30's layout you don't mention a location nor even a general area, the 1930s were during the period of the 4 mainline companies, LMS covering form London through Birmingham to the nrth west coast & Lancashire and on north to Scotland, the LNER took it's route to Scotland via the east coast Yorkshire & Newcastle, the GWR covered from London to the west, Bristol, Wales, Devon and Cornwall, the Southern covered from London to Kent, Sussex, Hampshire, Dorset Wiltshire and parts of Devon and Cornwall.
BR did not come on the scene until 1948, so your prairie will need a repaint and the BR tank wasn't built until the 50s. The Lima 4F is an LMS loco, black is correct but it'll need LMS on the tender and an LMS number, also the Lima 4F has its motor in the tender and does not pick up current on the loco, methinks Chris is thinking of the Farish 4F.
Best place for a Lima 4F is heavily rusted with the smoke box door open & part hidden behind the Loco shed, they are over scale and very poor runners, either full speed or stopped,nowt between.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on September 17, 2020, 05:46:46 PM
The Lima 4F is an LMS loco, black is correct but it'll need LMS on the tender and an LMS number, also the Lima 4F has its motor in the tender and does not pick up current on the loco, methinks Chris is thinking of the Farish 4F.
You're quite correct, Mike. I failed to notice the word Lima in the OP :-[
Also, I was specifically referring to the current Farish 4F. I don't know if the Poole era one had tender pickup or not.
For a shunting plank I would recommend avoiding insulfrog points. :worried:
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 17, 2020, 08:16:05 PM
For a shunting plank I would recommend avoiding insulfrog points. :worried:
Don't know what insulfrog is... I have choosen Peco 55 because of its e-frogs :claphappy:
Quote from: Dorsetmike on September 17, 2020, 05:46:46 PM
When you say 30's layout you don't mention a location nor even a general area, the 1930s were during the period of the 4 mainline companies, LMS covering form London through Birmingham to the nrth west coast & Lancashire and on north to Scotland, the LNER took it's route to Scotland via the east coast Yorkshire & Newcastle, the GWR covered from London to the west, Bristol, Wales, Devon and Cornwall, the Southern covered from London to Kent, Sussex, Hampshire, Dorset Wiltshire and parts of Devon and Cornwall.
BR did not come on the scene until 1948, so your prairie will need a repaint and the BR tank wasn't built until the 50s. The Lima 4F is an LMS loco, black is correct but it'll need LMS on the tender and an LMS number, also the Lima 4F has its motor in the tender and does not pick up current on the loco, methinks Chris is thinking of the Farish 4F.
Best place for a Lima 4F is heavily rusted with the smoke box door open & part hidden behind the Loco shed, they are over scale and very poor runners, either full speed or stopped,nowt between.
I know, that the region is not specified. But the idea is that in german setting the layout shows a frontier station between two german countries and therefor two different railroad companies. In british setting this might be a fictious yard shared by two of the 4 big-ones. One of the reasons I want to exclude passenger traffic is that on the continent the stations offered less comfort for travellers (eg plattforms almost inexistent...)
I guess I will have to use rule #1 to set up the layout.
I try also to fit a rundown scenario of a transit yard somewhere in the states...
Time for some experiments.
As to whether repainting the rolling stock, I am not yet sure, if I want to modify rolling stock (even wheathering...). It sort of "destroys" the stock... As I said not yet sure of how to handle this....
Quite a bit of usefull comments so far.
You might want to look again at the time period you're aiming at.
You say 1930s, yet all your locos, and much of your rolling stock is in British Rail liveries - i.e. post 1948.
For a shunting layout, 0-6-0 tender or tank engines would be ideal. Plain black, or lined black liveries would be most appropriate for a goods yard. Lined green was generally reserved for locos normally used for passenger trains.
Steven.
Wot Steven said. Lined green was a passenger livery.
From your description of the duties, and lack of regional worries, I would recommend a Jinty.
Awesome locomotive, a favourite of mine as a kid, and not because of Thomas, even though he was obviously inspired by a Jinty!
Quote from: Steven B on September 18, 2020, 09:29:22 AM
You say 1930s, yet all your locos, and much of your rolling stock is in British Rail liveries - i.e. post 1948.
Correct. The locos already in possession were included in wagon deals... Seems they were even built after the 40ies. So they will mainly remain in the box.
Quote from: Steven B on September 18, 2020, 09:29:22 AM
For a shunting layout, 0-6-0 tender or tank engines would be ideal. Plain black, or lined black liveries would be most appropriate for a goods yard. Lined green was generally reserved for locos normally used for passenger trains.
Only the Lima 4F would qualify, except for being a Lima :doh:
Quote from: Bealman on September 18, 2020, 09:35:48 AM
From your description of the duties, and lack of regional worries, I would recommend a Jinty.
Awesome locomotive, a favourite of mine as a kid, and not because of Thomas, even though he was obviously inspired by a Jinty!
Now I know what I have to hunt for:
classes 57xx, 8750, 77xx and 3F preferably Dapol or GraFar.
It's well worth considering Union Mills locos, however they are all tender locos not tanks, but he has 0-6-0 tender engines for all of the 4 grouping companies, another advantage of UM locos is they are considerably cheaper than Farish and Dapol, not as highly detailed but that can be remedied by a little work and a few bits like vacuum pipes if you're fussy. They do not come ready wired for DCC control, but many of us on this forum still use DC control, personally I consider it an expensive gimmick and as for added sound I can't use the words to describe that - this is a family forum. Just stand next to an exhibition layout with sound, drives ya scatty before long.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/6222-120620140210.jpeg)
Hello Alexander
Put very simply, excluding hump yards, there are two types of shunting.
The first is in yards or sidings where trains are made up to be worked to their destination (or the next yard) or received at a major destination yard. These would usually be shunted by one or more engines, normally 0-6-0 tanks. If the work was heavy a tender engine might be allocated to the job; an example was at Moss Sidings near Heysham where the work was arduous and a '4F' 0-6-0 was employed.
The second type of shunting is typified by the 'pick up goods' train, which worked along a stretch of railway dropping off traffic at destination stations and collecting any originating traffic. This entailed a fair bit of shunting at each station. The locomotive working the train could be a tank engine or a tender engine; often a 0-6-0. In the last years of steam, a wide variety of locomotives could be seen on these duties.
You have a fair range of models to choose from. From my own experience, I agree completely with @Dorsetmike (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2855) regarding the Union Mills locomotives.
With best wishes.
John
my opinion..n gauge is not ideally suited to much shunting. the standard couplings can be unreliable and frustrating. i still use them--with tacky wax if needed..but run stock in rakes behind appropriate locos.
No-one has yet mentioned the Gronks: Class 08 in modern parlance. The black version by Farish takes you back to the 1950s, e.g. 371-020a. However, with a Parwood body, the predecessors from the Big Four can be resurrected, which takes you back to the 1930s. Search for woodpark88 on ebay.co.uk
Here's some of my own fleet from the 1930s to 1950s:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/231-180920180832.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/231-181019095521.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/231-011216140808.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/231-180920173857.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/231-180920174328.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/231-180920174529.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/231-180920175155.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/231-180920180055.jpeg)
As Rails of Sheffield have some Terriers and Panniers on Preorder... how are the experiences with them as preOrder dealer?
And what do you think about these 3 candidates? I choose them for their looks rather than preferred region :D
TERRIER A1 GIPSYHILL 643 MARSH UMBER BROWN
(https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/2S-012-014_20201103_3562933_Qty1_cat1.jpg) (https://railsofsheffield.com/products/40163/dapol-2s-012-014-n-gauge-terrier-a1-gipsyhill-643-marsh-umber-brown)
PANNIER 6752 GWR GREEN LETTERED GWR LATER CAB
(https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/Screenshot%202020-07-08%20at%2015.55.13.png) (https://railsofsheffield.com/products/40772/dapol-2s-007-022-n-gauge-pannier-6752-gwr-green-lettered-gwr-later-cab)
PANNIER EX 5775 GNSR LINED EARLY CAB
(https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/Screenshot%202020-07-08%20at%2016.06.24.png) (https://railsofsheffield.com/products/40784/dapol-2s-007-028-n-gauge-pannier-ex-5775-gnsr-lined-early-cab)
Quote from: AlexanderJesse on November 27, 2020, 10:19:37 AM
As Rails of Sheffield have some Terriers and Panniers on Preorder... how are the experiences with them as preOrder dealer?
Rails have been my 'go to' dealer since the demise of The Signal Box and are very good for me, especially as I've trained my relatives to get me vouchers for birthdays and Christmas :D
Quote from: msr on September 18, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
Here's some of my own fleet from the 1930s to 1950s:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/231-180920180832.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/231-181019095521.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/231-011216140808.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/231-180920173857.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/231-180920174328.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/231-180920174529.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/231-180920175155.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/231-180920180055.jpeg)
@msr (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=231) I'm very interested in the two LMS shunters that you have. I'm guessing they been made rather than bought. Specifically No. 1831 and the grey No. 1832.
Are they from resin/3d prints, and what chassis do they use? Any info would be much appreciated.
Cheers.
:thankyousign:
Here's a link to Parkwood on Ebay, they have quite a few shunter bodies, including LMS, GWR, LNER & Maunsell 350HP, LMS 10000/1, Metropolitan and LT electric locos, also brake tenders.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=woodpark88&item=174325905840&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1311&_nkw=parkwood&_sacat=0 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=woodpark88&item=174325905840&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1311&_nkw=parkwood&_sacat=0)
Having built and exhibited a DC shunting layout (Cromford Wharf and Sheep Pasture Incline Bottom), its perfectly possible to achieve good reliable operation with a little care, "even with" the std couplings.
There's been (rightly) adverse comment on the Lima 4F , but the other two you list originally are also far from good locos, the early Grafar Prairie through an over rigid chassis and long wheelbase, and the best thing that can be said about the early so called "standard" 2-6-4T was that its blue lining was as unacceptable as its performance! You have three pieces of history there, but time has not been kind to them, move on.
Can't comment on small DAPOL locos other than limited personal experience, have two, both require more effort to keep running well than any other make of the same age.
In my case I anglicised two Fleichmann locos, an 0-4-0T to a Midland 1F lookalike, and a short wheelbase 2-6-0T modded to 0-6-0T and largely rebodied as an ex-LNWR "Chopper". Both these chassis have a degree of compensation as the pickups provide "springing". Both are nothing short of superb runners.
Things I learned along the way:-
1. Track is not to be trusted as supplied, Prove all connections are low resistance, PROVE its flat, PROVE the gauge is correct and consistent.
2. Locos and rolling stock are not to be trusted as supplied. PROVE the back to back is correct. PROVE that all wheels are aligned. PROVE if there is compensation that it gives a good even pressure rail connection at all wheels. If there is no compensation, do all the wheels contact track evenly?
3. Do not rely on rolling stock manufacturers to always achieve the right rest height of couplings or degree of movement allowed. CHECK AND CORRECT.
4. Clean track with a fully evaporating cleaning fluid AND check wheels are clean before every use. I have seen people clean the track and locos, yet the wagon/carriage wheels are caked thick with attached dirt ready to instantly defeat their effort!
Yes, its a pain if you let it be, but if you are not prepared to put in the effort, N gauge (and especially small steam loco shunting) is NOT for you. The satisfaction when it all works is really good though.
Good Luck!
In answer to @emjaybee (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5604), I actually did very little to these two locos to get them to their present state, and both were bought essentially ready to run other than modifications described below.
1831 is the Fleischmann 7306, a red electric loco with the pantograph removed and the sunshades over the cab windows and the roof overhanging the ends shaved off. There is also a green one with the same catalogue number but seems otherwise to be the same. I painted the wheel spokes black and the body nearly black (Phoenix Precision Dirty Black P981). I added some bits from the scrap box to simulate the roof gubbins (probably from an other electric loco), a vacuum brake pipe and oil lamp. The buffer beam were painted red and the buffers picked out in silver.
1832 is essentially the orignal loco with some decals added. The original is a brass loco by World Craft (=World Kogei), a Japanese manufacturer which sells through Hobby Search. This model was a limited production in 2013 of a Higashino Railway DC20 diesel shunter in works grey livery with rapido couplings fitted. It has a motor designed for just 4.5V so be careful not to appy too much power. I gave it a light dusting of weathering on the roof and grills but otherwise left it as per the orginal. It's a brilliant runner at slow speeds: smooth and quiet. There was another release of this model in 2015 but the side grilles were blocked in and some of the windows had different shapes, so take care in identifying which model you are trying to locate. Some are listed by Hobby Search under the Toya Railway label but I don't know what relationship this has with the Higashino. The Higashino ceased rail operations in 1944 and became a bus company. Perhaps the Toya took over the stock?
The decals are from existing sheets in my collection. I think these might have been from the HMRS sheets 1 and 24, chosen to be an appropriate size since they were printed for OO rather than N, or possibly from Fox Transfers. I fixed them using Microsol followed by Microset.
Many thanks @msr (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=231), I shall look into that. Interesting stuff.
:thankyousign:
Just a little update: fetched a Grafar Pannier in GWR livery together with another batch of wagons... Secondhand, decent runner
And another question popped up: what are the rules for brake wagons in goods trains? Does somebody have a link to a page that explains their use?
This might help bit: http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/4-rstock/04arstock7.htm (http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/4-rstock/04arstock7.htm)
Rest of the site is usefull too.
Quote from: tunneroner61 on December 15, 2020, 09:42:06 PM
This might help bit: http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/4-rstock/04arstock7.htm (http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/4-rstock/04arstock7.htm)
Rest of the site is usefufll too.
Quite some reading. Thanks a lot
Quote from: Bealman on September 18, 2020, 09:35:48 AM
not because of Thomas, even though he was obviously inspired by a Jinty!
I always thought Thomas was inspired by the LBSCR class E2 0-6-0T ...
Quote from: AlexanderJesse on December 15, 2020, 08:50:16 PM
And another question popped up: what are the rules for brake wagons in goods trains? Does somebody have a link to a page that explains their use?
Every loose-coupled goods train has to have a brake van.
The brake van and guard HAVE to be of the same operating company as the locomotive and footplate crew (can't have them working to different rule books and operating procedures ... )
The brake van MUST be at the back of the train, and have a red tail lamp, so that signalmen can check the train is complete when it passes them
On a long train, additional brake vans may be included in the middle of the train to give extra stopping power
Some companies (e.g. the LBSCR) stipulated that there MUST be a brake van at BOTH ends of every goods train (a right royal pain in the proverbials, that one ... I need to build some more LBSC brake vans!)
If the train was carrying something that might go BOOM (explosives ... petroleum ... ) then there must be two empty "barrier wagons" between any vehicle carrying something that might go BOOM and anything carrying people
Those are the main "rules" to be followed. Observe all of the above and your goods trains will "look right". Note also that some companies painted their brake vans different colours to distinguish between those that were "fitted" (i.e. able to operate automatic brakes - air or vacuum) and those that were not. If the train contains a mix of fitted and non-fitted stock, then the fitted stock should be marshalled at the front of the train and the non-fitted stock behind them. HOWEVER ... if the train includes vehicles carrying livestock then these MUST be marshalled IMMEDIATELY behind the locomotive ... even if this means operating fitted stock with its automatic brakes disabled.
Quote from: AlexanderJesse on November 27, 2020, 10:19:37 AM
As Rails of Sheffield have some Terriers and Panniers on Preorder... how are the experiences with them as preOrder dealer?
And what do you think about these 3 candidates? I choose them for their looks rather than preferred region :D
TERRIER A1 GIPSYHILL 643 MARSH UMBER BROWN
(https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/2S-012-014_20201103_3562933_Qty1_cat1.jpg) (https://railsofsheffield.com/products/40163/dapol-2s-012-014-n-gauge-terrier-a1-gipsyhill-643-marsh-umber-brown)
PANNIER 6752 GWR GREEN LETTERED GWR LATER CAB
(https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/Screenshot%202020-07-08%20at%2015.55.13.png) (https://railsofsheffield.com/products/40772/dapol-2s-007-022-n-gauge-pannier-6752-gwr-green-lettered-gwr-later-cab)
PANNIER EX 5775 GNSR LINED EARLY CAB
(https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/Screenshot%202020-07-08%20at%2016.06.24.png) (https://railsofsheffield.com/products/40784/dapol-2s-007-028-n-gauge-pannier-ex-5775-gnsr-lined-early-cab)
The Terrier is in LBSC Marsh umber livery ... so that's a pre-grouping locomotive. Cant' remember the exact date when Mr Marsh took over, but this is the last LBSC livery and continued in use up until the Grouping in 1923. Some locomotives would have remained in this livery through the late 1920s, but all should have been repainted in Southern livery by 1930.
The GWR pannier tank is very nice, and a classic shunting / trip work locomotive. Suitable for your 1930s date line ... and others who are more firmly stuck in God's Wonderful Rut than I may be able to advise on the date of adoption of this particular livery style.
The third locomotive is in the livery of the fictional "Great Northern & Southern Railway", as it appeared in the film "The Railway Children" ... and I believe that the particular locomotive which featured in the film continues to wear this livery on one of the preserved railways somewhere (cannot remember which, offhand). Or is it the N2 which continues to wear this livery? Help me out here, someone ... but either way, this is not a prototypical livery.
Quote from: PGN on December 21, 2020, 11:56:29 PM
The third locomotive is in the livery of the fictional "Great Northern & Southern Railway", as it appeared in the film "The Railway Children" ... and I believe that the particular locomotive which featured in the film continues to wear this livery on one of the preserved railways somewhere (cannot remember which, offhand). Or is it the N2 which continues to wear this livery? Help me out here, someone ... but either way, this is not a prototypical livery.
It's still the pannier tank, at the Keighley & Worth Valley where the film was made.
According to Wikipedia the loco is currently a static exhibit in the museum at Oxenhope.
N2 no.1744 was also in the film, although I don't recall in what livery - that one is, apparently, undergoing overhaul at the North Norfolk Railway.
D. E. Marsh was at the LBSCR 1905 - 11
Quote from: crewearpley40 on December 22, 2020, 08:27:05 AM
D. E. Marsh was at the LBSCR 1905 - 11
Brilliant - thanks .... and his successor didn't change the livery.
Here is a link on GWR liveries http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveries.html (http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveries.html) ,pretty sure its 1906 to mid 30s
Just to add to and clarify a few points:
Quote from: PGN on December 21, 2020, 11:45:45 PM
The brake van MUST be at the back of the train, and have a red tail lamp, so that signalmen can check the train is complete when it passes them
On an unfitted train the brake van would also have two side lamps, one fitted to each side of the van. This was so the loco crew could look back and check that the train hadn't split.
Quote from: PGN on December 21, 2020, 11:45:45 PM
If the train was carrying something that might go BOOM (explosives ... petroleum ... ) then there must be two empty "barrier wagons" between any vehicle carrying something that might go BOOM and anything carrying people
It was the distance between a wagon carrying dangerous cargo, and other similar wagons or train crew that was important. A single bogie bolster wagon could be used for example.
Barrier wagons needn't be empty. You could use a loaded parcels van or wagon carrying farm machinery as a barrier wagon for a class A tank (flammable liquids with a low flash point such as petrol) for example. That said, some care would still be needed - a bogie bolster loaded with steel might not be placed next to a tanker in case the load should shift and the steel puncture the tank in the event of a heavy shunt of brake application.
It's well worth tracking down the rule books for the period and location you're modelling. Taking a close/detailed look at photos will also help although you'll end up grumbling as to why the photographer concentrated on the loco rather than the train!
Steven B.
The green pannier tank has the 'GWR' lettering, introduced in 1942. There were some well-documented survivals of this livery style well into British Railways days. For a 1930s layout, either the early 'Great Western' or the 'GWR' roundel (often called the 'shirtbutton') style, introduced in 1934, would be appropriate.
Best wishes.
John
See ... I told you someone who knew more than me would be along soon, ready and eager to share their knowledge!
You gotta love this place :bounce:
Quote from: PGN on December 22, 2020, 09:17:53 AM
See ... I told you someone who knew more than me would be along soon, ready and eager to share their knowledge!
You gotta love this place :bounce:
for sure PGN . I WAS not sure on the exact dates but 1942 will do me. Either loco mentioned or the early LMS shunters would not look out of place
Indeed.
My own thoughts on 1930s shunting locomotives are:
GWR
57xx pannier tank is the obvious choice: RTR from Graham Farish or Dapol
56xx 0-6-2T available as a whitemetal kit from Langley, and now also as an RTR from Revolution Trains
Dean Sidings made a resin kit for the GWR 1701 class 0-6-0ST, which would give you something a bit different on a GWR shunting layout
The Dean Goods 0-6-0 (Union Mills) and Collett 0-6-0 (Peco RTR, and also available as a white metal kit) would shunt the yards of stations they passed through on pick-up workings.
If you can get one, Cav'ndish made a white metal kit of the 1101 class 0-4-0T to fit the super-reliable Arnold chassis (but make sure you get one of the later versions of the chassis with the sprung coupler, rather than one of the earlier ones with a vertical hook which will engage with "rapido" type couplers, but not disengage)
The Peco white metal Peckett 0-4-0T (also to fit the Arnold chassis) will serve as one of the Pecketts acquired from the Swansea Docks and Harbour Board, or if you are willing to build in brass you can have one of these from N Brass Locomotives
The Hurry Riches 0-6-2T types of the welsh valleys, absorbed into GWR stock at grouping, can be built using a conversion kit (Langley?) and an old Farish "General Purpose Tank" generic 0-6-0T (make sure you get one with a 5 pole motor, not one of the older 3-pole types). I am also experimenting to see whether it is possible to bash a Rhymney Railway outside-framed saddle-tank (either 0-6-0 or 0-6-2) by mating the GEM Aspinall 0-6-0 ST superstructure to a Bachmann Farish 08 diesel shunter chassis. These would, of course, have continued to work as shunters on the GWR after grouping.
For an impressive GWR heavy shunter, you might want to try to track down an example of the Ayers Mouldings kit for the 42xx class 2-8-0T or the Dean Sidings resin kit for the Barry Railway L class 0-6-4T.
The 94xx is, of course, very widely available ... but dates to the very end of the Grouping period (if memory serves correctly it was not introduced until 1947).
LMS
The Grham Farish or Bachmann Farish Jinty is the obvious choice, closely followed by the Minitrix 2F dock tank (which will need repainting)
A nice alternative is the white metal kit (GEM?) for the ex-LYR Aspinall 2F saddle tank (if you can get one)
In the days when they built RTR locomotives, N Brass Locomotives did a "coal tank" 0-6-2T, but since they built fewer than two dozen of these they are very difficult to lay your hands on
The 4F 0-6-0 (from Farish, NOT the uncontrollable Lima version), and the 2F, 3F and "Cauliflower" 0-6-0s from Union Mills, would not be out of place shunting the yard at a station they passed through on a "pick-up" working
For a Scottish layout, the Peco or N Brass Locomotives Peckett kits can serve for one of the G&SWR dock tanks absorbed at grouping (originally from the Ayr Docks & Harbour Board, which was absorbed by the G&SWR), and the Manning Wardle pug kit can serve as a Caley pug. If you can get them, Graham Hughes made a kit for the Caley 498 class shunter (almost impossible to shoe-horn the Minitrix dock tank chassis into it, though) and 782 class 0-6-0T. There is also the ABS Beaver white metal kit for the ex-HR "banking tank" 0-6-4T which would give you something a bit different.
ABS Beaver also did a kit for the ex-Midland "Flatiron" 0-6-4T. Although intended by the Midland as a passenger tank, I think that by the 1930s the LMS were using the survivors for shunting and local trip goods workings.
Another great rarity, but an interesting kit to build if you can get your hands on one, is the ex-North Stafford "New L" class 0-6-2T produced by Planit Engineering Services ... I believe only 50 of these were ever made.
If you must, there are also the Farish generic freelance "General Purpose Tank" which came in LMS black and red liveries, and the even older "Standard Tank" with noisy can motor, but if you can get a good 'un they do give nice slow speed running.
The Graham Farish Poole-era inside-frame version of the 08 diesel shunter was turned out in LMS livery, which is a passable stand-in for the LMS experimental diesel shunters.
LNER
The second mass market N gauge British-outline RTR locomotive, built in the early 1970s, was the "buckjumper". Same noisy can motor as the "Standard Tank", but prototypically correct. Produced in GER blue and LNER green (initially without running number, later with), there are a surprising number of them still around and they are relatively easy to buy on Ebay.
N Brass Locomotives did a RTR J50 as a limited edition of 20 models ... 19 were finished in black (mix of LNER and BR) ... one was finished in LNER green but has since been repainted in GNR wartime grey (I know this because it's in my collection, and I commissioned the repaint ... ). Graham Hughes did a whitemetal kit for the J50, but this is almost as difficult to find as the N Brass RTR.
The first Minitrix British outline locomotive was a white metal kit for the ex-Great Central J63 0-6-0T, which fits their T3 chassis (later used for the Dock Tank). The moulds and masters passed through a number of hands after Minitrix stopped producing them, and there are quite a lot of examples of this particular locomotive out there. They are not all that difficult to obtain if you keep your eyes open on Ebay. Sellers generally don't know what they are ... look out for the distinctive curved cab sideplate.
The J25, J26 and J27 (RTR from Union Mills, J26 and J27 also available as Nu-Case white metal kits), and J38, J39 and ex-Great Central "pom pom" (also RTR from Union Mills) 0-6-0s would all shunt the yards at stations they passed through on pick-up workings. (The "pom pom" is also available as a Graham Hughes white metal kit.) For a Scottish layout, if you can get your hands on one, there is also the Graham Hughes J35 kit.
There is a J52 kit out there which builds into a nice model, if slightly overscale.
Kits also exist for the N2 and N7 0-6-2Ts which would not look out of place shunting.
There is a kit for the Sentinel shunter which is designed to run on a Farish DMU motor bogie.
Again, the Farish generic "General Purpose Tank" is available in LNER livery, and the inside frame 08 diesel shunter was produced in LNER livery.
If you want to push your date line forward a bit to the very end of the Grouping period then you can of course add the J94 "austerity" saddle tank, which is readily available.
SOUTHERN
For many years the only Southern RTR shunter was the Graham Farish generic "General Purpose Tank" (and the older "Standard Tank" was also produced in Southern livery); but now they have been joined by the Dapol "Terrier" (in both A1 and A1X varieties)
The excellent Bachmann Farish ex-SECR C class 0-6-0, and the Union Mills ex-LSWR 359 and 700 class 0-6-0s would all shunt the yards at stations they passed through on "pick-up" workings
There are white metal kits for the ex-LBSC E2 class 0-6-0T and E5 class 0-6-2T, which are both suitable to be put to work as shunters; and Dean Sidings made a resin kit for the E4 class 0-6-2T
The Poole-era Graham Farish inside frame 08 diesel shunter was also produced in Southern livery; but I don't think that the Southern experimented with diesel shunters until after the war.
For a slightly later period, there are also white metal kits for the Southern "American tank" 0-6-0T (introduced in 1943) and the Z class 0-8-0T heavy shunter.
I think that's about it ... but plenty there for you to choose from!