Since my marriage broke down after 30 years I decided a hobby was a good idea.
I didn't feel i had the skills to make my own layout from scratch and wanted something that didn't take up a lot of space or look untidy. N Gauge seemed to be the perfect answer.
After six months I spotted an older 5ft farish layout on ebay built into a glass topped coffee table which i bid and won:) so i hired a van and picked it up.
Great I was on my way in N gauge!
Anyway it's turned out after a lot of wonky track replacement and modifications/improvements to be just what I wanted. :)
However there has been frustrations which I have learned to watch out for that I would like to list here which I sure a few of you, if not all, have experienced at times with N gauge and other gauges also.
1. A lot of faulty locos/track/points on Ebay. Ask for a partial refund or send them back.
2. Bad Dapol, design reliability and total denial of major issues like lights led failure due to blown un-protected diodes and suffer overheating motors. (class 52,56,hymex) Very cheap can motor in their latest dcc panier tankers. (£50 to replace from dcc supplies if not covered by warranty)
3. Bad Farish quality issues with bent/broken power pickups, also box-can and some coreless motor premature failures.
4. Both Dapol & Farish have issues with worm gears eating into and wearing out top bogie drive gears. (e.g. farish class 66 or dapol hymex}
5. Rapido couplers at different heights and locos that don't support Rapido at all.
6. Last but not least warped base board with track that has been stapled or nailed hard too it.
As new "N" gauge locomotive prices have recently risen 20% to around £150 I would expect improved reliability and durabilty.
I'm sure many of you are happy but there is still room for improvement, thanks for letting me vent some of my frustrations here.
In reference to point 1 and knowing how fragile points are, I'd never - ever - buy second-hand!
A few quid is not worth the risk.
I would suspect everyone on this forum has had some frustrating times, similar to what you have experienced.
You put it down to experience and move on.
Have you actually experienced all of those problems? You've had a bad run if that's the case :worried:
1) I would never buy used track from ebay or anywhere else to be honest, you just don't know how it's been treated. So much of what I see has sleepers broken or missing, holes drilled in sleepers etc. Yes there are some iffy locos on ebay as people will sell on stuff they're not happy with. It can take time to gain the experience of knowing how to spot the signs of a dud, what minor faults you can fix yourself, and some knowledge of which models have been known to be "lemons". Always ask for more clear photos including the underside, if not forthcoming then walk away.
I can't really comment on Dapol and Farish as I have very few examples, the vast majority of my stuff is Continental European themed.
5) Yes there will be slight variations in coupling manufacture and implementation but nothing which can't be solved or avoided by simply moving the item of stock elsewhere in the train :) I'm running stock from many brands and ages of model together and rarely have a problem. I've never ever come across a loco which won't take a Rapido coupler with an appropriate shank, as that's been the standard coupling in N since the 1960s. Do you mean NEM pockets?
6) Let's face it, not everyone is skilled at baseboard construction and/or may try to skimp on materials - I've seen some shockers! It's the fundamental foundation of the layout, if it's not done to a decent standard the layout will never be satisfying. I'm not a fan of pinning track.
£150 for a new British N loco is still significantly less than the way Continental loco prices have gone. I buy new Continental locos extremely rarely nowadays, preferring to pick up quality pre-owned items for say £50 - £80.
Quote from: ntpntpntp on September 07, 2020, 11:46:54 AM
Have you actually experienced all of those problems? You've had a bad run if that's the case :worried:
Yes all and more, have built up a fleet of ~50 locos with x5 waiting repair.
My 1987 layout aquired three years ago was the first Graham Farish magnum design which I love but used vintage farish track, needed to find and adapt some Piko and Atlas track to get it now running smooth.
Agreed only buy new track. Currently, now that the layout is nearly finished I am re-assesing all the locos into great, good, ok or bad.
American locos don't use pockets. many older ones have rapido with circular holes similar to the old maroon brass geared farish tanker. The usa locos have them mounted higher up so i need to use a caboose birectly behind the loco to couple to my UK rolling stock.
Not all old locos are noisy, not all new locos are reliable or have much pulling power but I guess that's all part of the hobbies fun. :)
Quote from: Ontrack on September 07, 2020, 12:08:15 PM
(The Magnum layout) used vintage farish track, needed to find and adapt some Piko and Atlas track to get it now running smooth.
They're surprising choices! The old GDR-made Piko track was dreadful cheap stuff, not even a standard rail cross-section as I recall. I'd have suggested if Peco doesn't fit then maybe look for Minitrix, Roco or possibly even Lima track. Something in the back of my mind is saying Farish may have used Roco track in some sets after they'd giving up on their Liveway trackwork of the 1970s (but I may be confusing with something else). The current Farish track is pretty much a clone of Peco Setrack.
Quote from: ntpntpntp on September 07, 2020, 12:42:58 PM
They're surprising choices!
Yes i found some Piko Y points that worked better at the end of a long curve.
Roco was the only new compatible farish track but as you know ceased production.
@Ontrack (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8805) The Roco N track range is now sold under the Fleischmann brand as an "unballasted" system, as an alternative to Fleischmann's own ready-ballasted system.
Quote from: ntpntpntp on September 07, 2020, 12:54:18 PM
@Ontrack (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8805) The Roco N track range is now sold under the Fleischmann brand as an "unballasted" system, as an alternative to Fleischmann's own ready-ballasted system.
Good to know thank you. :) Fleischmann's track looks the same as the Atlas points I purchased from Gaugemaster. The Atlas was cheaper for the same thing and available from UK if I remember.
If I found n gauge model railways were that stressful I would switch to flower arranging :D
Quote from: Snowwolflair on September 07, 2020, 01:20:25 PM
If I found n gauge model railways were that stressful I would switch to flower arranging :D
I'm not sure my eye-sight is up to that: https://www.dcctrainautomation.co.uk/busch-1229-summer-flowers-set.html (https://www.dcctrainautomation.co.uk/busch-1229-summer-flowers-set.html) ;)
Quote from: ntpntpntp on September 07, 2020, 12:42:58 PM
Quote from: Ontrack on September 07, 2020, 12:08:15 PM
(The Magnum layout) used vintage farish track, needed to find and adapt some Piko and Atlas track to get it now running smooth.
The current Farish track is pretty much a clone of Peco Setrack.
No - current Farish setrack (last 3-4 years) looks like Peco at first but the Peco rail section and fishplates are much finer. The result is the two types do not join properly. I tried to mix the two types of setrack in my fiddle yard but ended up ditching the Farish track and settling on Peco.
I used code 40 FiNetrax track, and points in the visible areas.
Ian
Second hand Kato unitrak Is a good buy, as it's bulletproof! You can easily replace track joiners, as they pop out.
Agreed; but I would suggest getting used Kato points from a reliable vendor with a warranty of some sort -- they're more delicate than the regular track (which you can wash in soapy water without any problems). I bought some used points from Hattons as part of an M2 starter pack, and both the points were broken. Both missing the plugs on the wires, and one seemed to be broken internally too.
Fixable, mind, but they're fiddly, and I'd suggest avoiding such challenges!
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: Railwaygun on September 07, 2020, 03:03:11 PM
Second hand Kato unitrak Is a good buy, as it's bulletproof! You can easily replace track joiners, as they pop out.
Quote from: Snowwolflair on September 07, 2020, 01:20:25 PM
If I found n gauge model railways were that stressful I would switch to flower arranging :D
I did, but still never got to the root of my problems
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 07, 2020, 03:57:08 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on September 07, 2020, 01:20:25 PM
If I found n gauge model railways were that stressful I would switch to flower arranging :D
I did, but still never got to the root of my problems
That's blooming awful, Mick!
I suppose, like many other things, 'N' gauge model railways are about trial and error, leading to experience. What is ideal for one modeller might not suit another. Fortunately, there is a good range of products and suppliers to choose from.
I have found, from experience, the combination of Peco track, Union Mills locomotives, Dapol or Graham Farish carriages, Peco wagons, Gaugemaster controllers and Oxford Diecast road vehicles works perfectly and enables me to build the kind of layout I want. The next person to post in this thread might have a completely different list which works equally well for them.
I approach second-hand models with caution but do not avoid them completely.
Model railways, to me, are about fun and it's important to work out what gives each of us the most pleasure and the least aggravation.
Best wishes.
John
I can understand the frustration, years ago I had the combination of Atlas track and Farish locos which was what a local retailer was selling. My trains would not even do one circuit of the layout. It was only dogged determination and joining a local club that kept me going.
Surely if they’re all N they should all work together? no such luck with the combinations I chose.
I learned pretty quickly that without good track work you are sunk. For that reason I have avoided second hand track unless I can inspect it closely.
I’ve done very well with second hand locos bought from this forum’s Facebook N’porium. The only loco I’ve had to return recently was an 00 purchase.
There’s a reason one of my layouts was called ‘Trial and Error’
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 07, 2020, 03:57:08 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on September 07, 2020, 01:20:25 PM
If I found n gauge model railways were that stressful I would switch to flower arranging :D
I did, but still never got to the root of my problems
Maybe you need to branch out.
PW
Quote from: Train Waiting on September 07, 2020, 04:47:07 PM
Quote from: Newportnobby on September 07, 2020, 03:57:08 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on September 07, 2020, 01:20:25 PM
If I found n gauge model railways were that stressful I would switch to flower arranging :D
I did, but still never got to the root of my problems
That's blooming awful, Mick!
@Train Waiting (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6222)
Not really, John. As any flower arranger knows there are no roots on cut flowers :) :P
Quote from: ODRAILS on September 07, 2020, 01:28:41 PM
Quote from: ntpntpntp on September 07, 2020, 12:42:58 PM
The current Farish track is pretty much a clone of Peco Setrack.
No - current Farish setrack (last 3-4 years) looks like Peco at first but the Peco rail section and fishplates are much finer. The result is the two types do not join properly. ... [I discarded the Farish track]...
Well I did say "pretty much a clone" :) Actually the only problem I can find is the Bachmann Farish track has wider fishplates which don't fit into the recess on the Peco Setrack's end sleeper. However that's easily fixed in 10 seconds with a couple of strokes of a hobby knife to widen the Setrack recess. No need to dispose of the Farish track.
Here's one I prepared earlier - notice the widened recess on the Peco end sleeper (left lower rail) to accommodate the Farish fishplate.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/5885-100920113706.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=99295)
Peco (left) joined to Farish (right):
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/5885-100920113926.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=99296)
Quote from: silly moo on September 07, 2020, 05:53:49 PM
. It was only dogged determination and joining a local club that kept me going.
There's a reason one of my layouts was called 'Trial and Error'
I'm pretty sure the last owner of my magnum layout sold it because of faulty track because without replacing many sections only a small amout of locos like kato or tomix would tolerate it without problems.
With some engineering knowledge I quickly learnt that track works best when it is allowed to go where it wants without any warped baseboard or bending with nails. There is also a vast difference between locomotives on how smooth they run on different tracks.
Without some knowledge N Gauge can easily go wrong and you are very lucky if you get it right first time. For some like myself it can be very rewarding once you know what works with what, others are no always so lucky.
Knowing what works with what is always helpful, no matter the area of interest!
I'm yet to build my first N layout, so I've got this particular learning curve ahead of me. Understanding some of this ahead of time would be really helpful for me, and would help me to avoid potentially costly mistakes.
I'm sure I'm not alone. Perhaps you and others who have already covered a lot of this ground might consider creating a thread for the knowledge bank, where you can share some of that "this good, that bad" understanding?
Ross.
In attempts to help folks I composed a Glossary of Terms which can be found in the Knowledge Bank and also this..........
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=35556.msg416493#msg416493 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=35556.msg416493#msg416493)
Many have added their experiences.
A Godsend!
:thankyousign:
Ross.
Ross, if you're young enough, take a lot of time to enjoy this Forum and to experiment with the various components of railway modelling. I was 80 when I started (with a few health issues) so I was in too big a hurry. It's taken me over two years and I've at least another year to go so i don't think I had an option but to push on. I DO wish I'd had at least a year of learning at the feet of some of the guys contributing to this Forum before starting.
Leon
Agreed Leon, I've been back on this train for half a year, after a 25 year break from model railways. While I've been doing a lot of different things already, I'm not in a rush to build my layout just yet - although the itch is definitely starting to make itself felt ;)
I figure it'll be a few more years at least, before I'll consider myself "good enough". But right now I think I've settled on an initial layout design that I'm happy with, and which has enough versatility to keep things interesting for a long while. I'm going to start work on this layout soon, mainly just to start gaining some real world - albeit miniature - experience under my belt. I'm going to use this to learn with. Then, in a few more years time, I should be ready to build a better layout.
Ross.
Sounds like a good plan, Ross, and apparently you have plenty of time to make it happen!
Leon
Quote from: RBTKraisee on September 10, 2020, 04:55:13 PM
Perhaps you and others who have already covered a lot of this ground might consider creating a thread for the knowledge bank, where you can share some of that "this good, that bad" understanding?
Ross.
As you can see Ross there is a ton of good info on this forum with some of the best N gauge modellers you will find so I would only be adding some ideas when most of it is already here.
What I would say is that because it is a fairly small gauge that having good eyesight helps and being able to use a soldering iron. Also keep an led magnifying glass handy and invest in the right precision tools. The simple things work the best and leave room to expand if you so wish.
Last but not least there are times where a lot of patience is needed to get the desired result.
hope you enjoy .:)
That is an excellent observation and contribution to this thread.
Thank you! :thumbsup: