Just been musing on how he N gauge is doing at the moment. The last five years or so has seen fewer and fewer new tooling N gauge locos while there has been quite a boom in 0 gauge ready to run. I think this reflects the fact that it has been easier to get a reasonable return on investment with 0 gauge projects than with N.
I do wonder if we are starting to see an improvement in the situation for N. Reasons for me thinking the outlook may be improving for N:-
1. Although it doesn't involve any great investment Dapol are doing a lot of re-runs in new liveries. Re-runs have been announced for both the class 142 and the class 50 which suggests they first run for both of these have sold reasonably well. If there were large unsold stocks in the warehouse they would not be going for another run.
2. Again, probably not a major investment for them but Bachmann have decided to sell some of the DJM N gauge models through their network. This must mean they expect reasonable sales.
3. There appear to be very few N gauge items being sold in "bargain" sales. This again suggests sales have been reasonably good (or at least near expectations) overall. There have been exceptions such as the Farish castle with early BR emblem. I think the castle has sold well but this particular version hasn't done so well. At the same time there do seem to be plenty of 0 gauge rtr bargains around. This suggests 0 gauge sales may well have been lower than expected.
Its too early to say for sure but maybe these are little signs that the outlook may be starting to improve for British N gauge. There are still issues such as he lack of new N gauge from Farish. I may be wrong but I suspect that David Haarhous (MD of Bachmann Europe) is keen on N gauge. My guess, and I have not got any inside information at all, is that US locos and stock will always sell in far greater quantities than British N. This is due to the US population being far greater than the UK along with the fact that most US locos ran on lots of different lines right across the country whereas many British locos only ever ran on one region. The greater volumes in the USA means that Kadar in China are always going prioritise their designers and toolmakers to work on US models rather than British models. I suspect, but again have absolutely no inside knowledge, that this might be the case with a new tooling class 45/46. I'm sure there is pent up demand for this model and it will sell well but while there are US projects that might provide a better return on investment due to higher volumes its going to be hard to get a slot for development. If the class 14 sells well then it might help to show Kadar that models of UK locos are worth doing.
Anyway I think that overall we might, just might, be getting to a point where British N gauge is seen by manufacturers as worth investing in once again. I do hope so.
As a consumer I know over last couple of years as I travel around the country and visit many model rail shops, I often see fully stocked 00 gauge display cabinets and almost empty n-gauge displays. The dealers all say the same thing, the makers have a full catalogue but most of it is not available, either it's made in small batches that sell out quickly to collectors or internet preorders or it's in the book but never been released.
If customers can't buy N-Gauge then they either go down the 00 route or just give up and walk away.
I know there has been a little flourish of new models at the moment but that still leaves shops unable to order most catalogue items because of their small batch production system.
I suspect the main problem is that none of them actually own a factory any more and went down the route of having to book production slots in the few factories that can do such work in China, which might have been good for profit but not for actual sales.
Just my take on it.
NGM
Kader (Bachmann) do own their own factories, but ironically that can compound the situation, because they're still tied up doing bigger production runs, and finding a slot for a small production run of N is harder. If you've got a network of third party factories it's potentially easier.
N will always (or at least for the foreseeable future IMO) be second fiddle to OO, but I still see a healthy market. Revolution, Bachmann/EFE/Farish and Dapol are all putting new models out.
A few days back I drew up a list of the brands who have new tooling planned/being delivered or models out for "Expressions of Interest", and/or re-runs of older tooling. I came up with Arnold, Cavalex, C-Rail Intermodal, Dapol, EFE Rail, Gaugemaster, Graham Farish, Hattons, Kato, KRModels, Revolution Trains, Sonic Models. That is a lot of competition for my spend - and I can confess that a lot of what they have planned appeals to me.
The recent flurry of new liveries announced by Dapol is very reassuring, because I believe that they have recognised an uptick in interest over the past six months or so. Although not particularly a feature just affecting N, the age profile of railway modellers has probably helped demand. People on fixed retirement incomes in particular have had fewer opportunities for spending - holidays, eating out, excursions etc - with an attendant increase in the potential for discretionary hobby spending. Whilst there are those who have suffered financially during the Covid19 pandemic they are outnumbered at the moment by people working from home on full pay, furloughed on reduced income but also with potentially less routine spending opportunities, and fixed income retirees. Whether demand and interest can be sustained is the big question, but just from my own perspective, one thing have learned from the pandemic and lockdown is that I have not missed many of the things I used to spend on, and they do not form part of my future spending plans. There is a slight caution that the value of my savings/pension plan have taken a 4% negative knock, and that collectively we still have to find a way for government to refill the coffers.
Nobby's observations:-
My list of pre orders has not been as long as this for many years.
More and more companies are dipping their toes in the N gauge market e.g. Sonic, Accurascale, EFE and we have more retailers doing special editions.
The forum membership is still growing, with many commenting about returning to N or starting on new lockdown projects.
Nobby's concerns:-
If models don't sell well those dipping their toes in the market will not repeat the exercise.
It's all well and dandy announcing all the new stuff (Dapol!!) but where, oh where, does it all fit into this pipeline they allude to. I've remarked before I have 4 models in that pipeline and no clue as to what will be available and when. The 'Digest' forum is as much use as a chocolate fireguard yet I thought this was to be the medium for communication.
I'm sorry, but with the exception of RevolutioN, communication from our supply base is pretty dismal. As a result the likes of Gaugemaster, Kernow and Cheltenham Model Centre stand no chance of telling us anything either
I think things are looking pretty positive too. Like Mick I have a fairly large amount on pre-order, thankfully a good chunk of it paid for already.
I am hoping the Sonic 56xx does well, so as to encourage a second steam loco to follow, but what I would really like to know is where Farish will go next as far as steam locos are concerned now that the 8F (last in the current pipeline) is on the verge of release. I guess we will know in time.
The brand I am not sure about is EFE Rail, is that simply a mechanism to market non Kader items already tooled, or will the plan include new models? Irrespective I am mighty glad it has enabled the Clayton to see the light of day.
Roy
My concern is more about the actual N gauge buyers themselves.
Newportnobby tells us that the forum membership is still growing. The pessimist in me says "yeah but I bet the average age is still rising too". (I stand to be corrected of course). Although us retired types have the means to afford more models we are not the future of the hobby.
How many forum members are in their 30s as compared to us lot in our 60/70s and what are they buying? A large part of our hobby is nostalgia and many will build a layout focused around memories of their youth.
If you are fifty years old you missed Neil Armstrong landing on the moon and you'll likely not buy a model of Apollo 11 to make. Neither would you remember trains being hauled through your local station by a snorting smoke billowing steam locomotive. You might remember fondly travelling on a first generation diesel rail car though and buy one of those. Like I keep saying to Mr. Metcalfe, we can't keep on building his (excellent) 1920s terraced houses! To Oxford die cast I say, enough of the Jowett Javelins already - where are the Sierras and Cavaliers?!
My feeling is that the N gauge market could do itself a favour by looking a bit more at the modern end?
Just my 2 cents worth (expecting to be shot down in flames). :ngauge: :)
Alec.
Quote from: Invicta Alec on August 12, 2020, 01:52:58 PM
How many forum members are in their 30s as compared to us lot in our 60/70s and what are they buying? A large part of our hobby is nostalgia and many will build a layout focused around memories of their youth.
If you are fifty years old you missed Neil Armstrong landing on the moon and you'll likely not buy a model of Apollo 11 to make. Neither would you remember trains being hauled through your local station by a snorting smoke billowing steam locomotive. You might remember fondly travelling on a first generation diesel rail car though and buy one of those.
Cheek! I'm only 58 thank you :D
When I was in my thirties I spent all my time bringing up 3 kids and all my money on them as well, plus of course the mortgage. A brief attempt to get started with N Gauge, when I was in my twenties fell by the wayside until the kids were grown.
I do have memories of 1st gen DMU's, but 'fond' is not the first adjective that springs to mind :goggleeyes:
Regards,
John P
Dapol went through a blip when Dave Jones left. His replacement was an O Gauge man and so it's unsuprising that their RTR O Gauge range has grown. It's nice to see that they're planning on producing new liveries on the Pacers, class 66, HST and re-runs of the SR CCT. Add on the newly tooled Mk3 Sleeper and the West Country / Battle of Britain then they start to look like they're doing OK.
Farish have been all but sleeping for the last few years. Part of their problem was anouncing huge new ranges in both OO and N, apparently without the factory capacity to back it up. This has been compounded by Bachmann taking over the UK rights to Thomas the Tank Engine, and increasing the size of their existing Thomas range (and expanding to N Gauge) meaning factory slots that could have been used for British N have been used for Thomas and his friends. Whilst this is anoying to N Gauge modellers nobody can argue from a commercial point of view that that an N Gauge Thomas will sell many many more than any other British 0-6-0 tank engine and is so much more worthy of the production slot in the factory.
Steven B.
The memories that influence my modelling are of trainspotting in the mid to late 1940s on the SR main line between Bournemouth and Dorchester, plus a few visits to London termini. Hence my preference for olive green, not much of the Mala#hite and no spam cans got west of Bournemouth.
Quote from: Invicta Alec on August 12, 2020, 01:52:58 PM
Newportnobby tells us that the forum membership is still growing. The pessimist in me says "yeah but I bet the average age is still rising too". (I stand to be corrected of course).
How many forum members are in their 30s as compared to us lot in our 60/70s and what are they buying? A large part of our hobby is nostalgia and many will build a layout focused around memories of their youth
Without doing another poll as to the age of the membership that cannot be answered but my gut feeling (and I also stand to be corrected) is that younger folks are joining. Younger is, of course, a relative term. I think we all accept between maybe 16 - 50 years of age means other things take priority and disposable income. As someone also once said "Nostalgia isn't what it used to be"
Here's the poll I ran 5 years ago. I've asked Admin if we can put 2 polls into one thread i.e. age groups and era modelled to see if we can get any info from that.
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29395.0 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29395.0)
Quote from: Roy L S on August 12, 2020, 01:17:31 PM
what I would really like to know is where Farish will go next as far as steam locos are concerned now that the 8F (last in the current pipeline) is on the verge of release.
@Roy L S (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=242)
If they struggle to think of something (and I don't want to fire up another wishlist thread) they could consider re-tooling some of their elder stuff like a Crab, V2 and Peaks.
Dare I suggest they even start listening to their customers?
Just like to chime in as a mid-30s N Gauge modeller who primarily models BR(S) which ended a good 20 years before my time started on this planet, even my interest in Network Southeast which is within my lifetime (I'm a couple months older) also pretty much ended before I was ten and have no memory of it.
I don't really have any modern models (though might get the odd couple), so nothing which would tie into nostalgia in that regard.
Living near a disused railway line (which is sadly now a bus route) made me interested in the railways which use to be in my area (or could've been) rather than what I grew up with since I didn't really see many real trains till much later on.
Though I am slowly branching out as run out of SR locos to buy and finding out from my Father that one of his relatives (his Uncle maybe) use to be a GWR Driver, but also just getting what also seems interesting as well.
QuoteIf they struggle to think of something (and I don't want to fire up another wishlist thread) they could consider re-tooling some of their elder stuff like a Crab, V2 and Peaks.
Dare I suggest they even start listening to their customers?
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it "HOW ABOUT SOME SOUTHERN 4-6-0S" choice of 4 classes (more if you include exLSWR),
Quote from: Invicta Alec on August 12, 2020, 01:52:58 PM
How many forum members are in their 30s as compared to us lot in our 60/70s and what are they buying? A large part of our hobby is nostalgia and many will build a layout focused around memories of their youth.
If you are fifty years old you missed Neil Armstrong landing on the moon and you'll likely not buy a model of Apollo 11 to make. Neither would you remember trains being hauled through your local station by a snorting smoke billowing steam locomotive. You might remember fondly travelling on a first generation diesel rail car though and buy one of those. Like I keep saying to Mr. Metcalfe, we can't keep on building his (excellent) 1920s terraced houses! To Oxford die cast I say, enough of the Jowett Javelins already - where are the Sierras and Cavaliers?!
Speaking entirely from my own experience as someone who grew up with rattly blue'n'grey 1st generation DMUs (not all bad, I bounced up and down on a seat on one once and a small cache of pound coins fell out of it) and know steam from occasional trips to preserved railways, while initially I was focussed on what I still mentally refer to as "modern era" (i.e. mid/late 1980s BR) the wonders of the internet have opened up a whole new window into the past and I have found myself slipping back into the Kettle Era, which is much more "accessible" now than it was when I was growing up, if you see what I mean. For the same reason I have a growing collection of pre-Apollo Japanese stock, simply because I keep looking up the lines I'm interested in and finding old pictures and thinking "oooh, I want one of those". I'm sure I'm not the only one to whom this kind of thing happens.
Would love to be able to buy a model of the kind of rattly blue'n'grey 1st generation DMUs which dispensed pound coins, but so far no-one has made them in N. Same goes for 1980s cars.
Not sure if I'd want to make an Apollo model, but I do possess a small stash of Apollo-related literature :thumbsup:
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 12, 2020, 02:49:24 PM
Dare I suggest they even start listening to their customers?
Quote from: Dorsetmike on August 12, 2020, 03:40:23 PM
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it "HOW ABOUT SOME SOUTHERN 4-6-0S" choice of 4 classes (more if you include exLSWR),
I guess you need to round yourselves up and present a mass petition, Mike. I seem to recall the King Arthur and Lord Nelsons always did quite well in polls but no one has taken them up
As someone who has been in the hobby for just 2 years, I find the lack of stock infuriating.
I have a long list of locos and wagons I want, but can't get them new. This list has only grown as I learn more.
I'm tired of taking pot shots at ebay, yes I've bagged a few bargains but some have been rougher... I also like minty new stuff because I can afford it.
Anyone got 120 HAA's they could spare? :D
This is very much a nostalgia project for me too. I'm in my late 30's, so BR blue and sectorisation is my bag.
Quote from: Invicta Alec on August 12, 2020, 01:52:58 PM
My concern is more about the actual N gauge buyers themselves.
Newportnobby tells us that the forum membership is still growing. The pessimist in me says "yeah but I bet the average age is still rising too". (I stand to be corrected of course). Although us retired types have the means to afford more models we are not the future of the hobby.
How many forum members are in their 30s as compared to us lot in our 60/70s and what are they buying? A large part of our hobby is nostalgia and many will build a layout focused around memories of their youth.
If you are fifty years old you missed Neil Armstrong landing on the moon and you'll likely not buy a model of Apollo 11 to make. Neither would you remember trains being hauled through your local station by a snorting smoke billowing steam locomotive. You might remember fondly travelling on a first generation diesel rail car though and buy one of those. Like I keep saying to Mr. Metcalfe, we can't keep on building his (excellent) 1920s terraced houses! To Oxford die cast I say, enough of the Jowett Javelins already - where are the Sierras and Cavaliers?!
My feeling is that the N gauge market could do itself a favour by looking a bit more at the modern end?
Just my 2 cents worth (expecting to be shot down in flames). :ngauge: :)
Alec.
I think growing forum membership is an unhelpful metric to track. Membership doesn't lapse, so of course the number will just grow and grow. How many are still active though? If you look through an old thread there are very few names I recognise.
I'm 33, and I buy modern stuff. I remember sectorisation, but the contemporary scene is what interests me most, as much as I like IC swallow HSTs and coal sector 60s! Overwhelmingly I've given most money to Revolution in the last few years, although there's still a smattering of Dapol and Farish stuff - they're clearly still doing stuff that appeals!
The age thing isn't an N gauge issue though, railway modelling has always been one for more 'mature' participant! However I don't think that really matters, there's a never ending supply of people getting older.
I'm fortunate to be one of those mentioned above who's been WFH since March. I'm saving £400 a month on train tickets, I'm not buying lunch, or coffee, or going out for drinks after work. It's a fortunate position to be in for sure, and I've made the most of it, even if I don't actually have a layout at the moment :D
I can't speak for the wider N gauge market, but on a personal level the market is doing well - I've spent more in the last 4 months than in the previous 4 years!
Quote from: Invicta Alec on August 12, 2020, 01:52:58 PM
The pessimist in me says "yeah but I bet the average age is still rising too". (I stand to be corrected of course). Although us retired types have the means to afford more models we are not the future of the hobby.
The age profile of railway modelling has been a 'concern' for as long as I can remember. I don't see it as a problem. People in their 20s-40s often have families and are living in houses which are only just big enough and with little spare cash. Railway modelling has to wait until the youngsters have moved out and a spare room (and cash) becomes available. So the age profile will inevitably be skewed towards the late-middle-age/retired end. And when they hit the inevitable buffers there will be more people with time and money on their hands coming along to take their place.
The model railway market is changing, with more niche manufacturers going into crowdfunding and 3D printing with small production runs. If this means the established manufacturers have to adapt, so be it.
Cheers,
Chris
Farish and Dapol have done the most popular/widely used blue/grey Mk1 based DMUs ie 101, 108 and 121/122!
Talk to retailers and you can get conflicting messages ie that they never have enough N gauge stock, but conversely that the amounts they sell as a percentage of sales haven't really broken out beyond the 10-20% that has long been reported.
My view is that we really need to promote N gauge better, focus on the positives, be honest about the negatives and don't be afraid to say x/y/z is available or possible in N. Focusing on what isn't available or possible doesn't help promote a positive image of the scale.
It is infuriating when something isn't available that you'd like or you think would sell well (eg 2EPB -Farish!) but try to turn things into positives ie by making a reasoned case why you think a manufacturer will sell 1000+ for a loco or 3000+ for a wagon or see if other people are interested etc - you might just be surprised! Equally be realistic if a Class 478 0-8-2T of which one was made for the Dunny-on-the-wold light railway then it is probably never going to be realistic for a RTR model - fortunately there are still plenty of things that are viable!
Quote from: Steven B on August 12, 2020, 02:23:22 PM
... Bachmann taking over the UK rights to Thomas the Tank Engine... nobody can argue from a commercial point of view that that an N Gauge Thomas will sell many many more than any other British 0-6-0 tank engine.
I'd argue against that tbh. Unless the TTT range is specifically made as robust toys it will have the usual "not for bods under 14", and let's face it adult modellers will only buy one for a bit of fun and/or to maybe entertain kids for a moment at an exhibition. I don't think the market is actually that large for it, maybe they hope for major sales in other parts of the world?
I presume it means Tomix have lost the licence for their N gauge TTT range, or are they now restricted to certain territories only (as they were originally)? Did they ever actually have official licence to sell their TTT in the UK? My examples were all sourced from ebay foreign parts back in the day.
I once read that many of us model what we remember as children. When I started 'serious' modelling, as opposed to playing with trains, in the early 70s then I think that may well have been true. Many of the layouts in magazines were 'GWR branch line set in the 30s'. Since then, many layouts seem to be of the BR transition, circa 1960ish. So perhaps the original statement has some truth.
I acknowledge that there are many who model an era much closer to the current date, but I'd be annoyed when having got together a collection of accurate models for a particular area that the TOC either changes or modifies its livery! Though, on reflection, C+C only lasted 1949-57, maroon 57-64; blue/grey lasted a bit longer in yearly terms before Executive and Swallow became part of the story.
I had also thought that Farish had said they would update the old Poole range; surely one of the last steam locos left would be the Crab? I'd have thought the LMS 4-4-0 was unlikely.
We're still missing lots of tank engine classes, and some early type 1 + 2 diesels.
As others have said, the 'batch' production methods now in force can be annoying. In Poole days, if you wanted something that was in the current catalogue, then usually it was also in the shops or could be ordered. Now if one wants a particular item in the catalogue, the wait could be months before its actually on sale.
But going back to Poole days; one new loco type and a couple of re-liveries was regarded as a good year for N gauge models!
Martyn
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 12, 2020, 02:49:24 PM
I've asked Admin if we can put 2 polls into one thread i.e. age groups and era modelled to see if we can get any info from that.
Mick, that's A VERY good idea!
As a child I never saw a Panier tank locomotive, but from movies and a variety of visual representations in books, magazines, etc. I became a dovotee. Likewise, the Flying Scotsman and the Royal Scot. From these popular locomotives, I acquired an appreciation of many others and discovered the appeal of wagons and coaches. In my early 20s, I was able to view some locomotives in station and to experience a few railway journeys via both steam and diesel. It is my belief that the love of steam locomotives and interest in early diesel and electric motive power will not diminish but will strengthen over the next couple of generations. The market exists, in my opinion. I'm not sure that market research does exist - at least to the extent of predicting trends.
I understand that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and beauty isn't the only attraction of railroads. To my eye there wasn't much of beauty in British locomotives (or other rolling stock) between the steam and the high-speed railroad eras. I'm a romantic, I know, but I think there will always be those who want to model beauty along with utility.
Leon
Hopefully an N gauge Thomas will do wonders for British N gauge. To sell to children it will need to be robust, affordable and offer good play value. My fear is that Thomas simply becomes another collectors (no offence intended) item that commands high prices.
In addition, I would like Thomas to be a comprehensive range with appropriate track, control system, rolling stock etc. I think it would be a great opportunity to reintroduce something like Farish's old Magnum layouts but with a Thomas theme.
As for the mainstream, most of the models produced now are wonderful. Availability seems to be issue and this stops people building a model railway. If you enter the hobby at the wrong time then you miss out on those coaches and/or wagons you wanted.
We live in a 24/7 world where many people expect instant gratification. Telling someone the item they want is not available, may not be rerun for years if ever, is not really going to work. You could have little Donald/Donaldina getting a train set for their 13th birthday only to find that the model they want will not be available until they are 16 or older! By this time they have lost interest and moved on.
It is fine for someone like me who has been modelling in N gauge since 1996 as I have more than enough rolling stock. I know it is expensive to keep stock on hand but I really believe that N gauge would benefit from having a readily available core set of models. May be less new models and more rereleases is a good idea?
Kind regards
Paddy
Quote from: Leon on August 12, 2020, 05:07:07 PM
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 12, 2020, 02:49:24 PM
I've asked Admin if we can put 2 polls into one thread i.e. age groups and era modelled to see if we can get any info from that.
Mick, that's A VERY good idea!
Thanks, Leon, but polls are only as good as the numbers who vote.
As an example, the age poll attracted a mere 136 votes.
The era poll was even worse with only 92 votes and folks were given up to 5 votes so potentially only 19 people voted (18.4 actually but I wouldn't like to meet the 0.4 person on a dark night :worried:)
This is where celebration of forum numbers comes unstuck because, as @njee20 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147) mentioned, it's always the same core who get involved.
Mind you, if everyone did get involved no one would cope!
Mick, you make some good points. There may be a way to encourage greater participation? I presume there are email addresses for all members? A special email might be sent to all members - short but simple - "N Scale needs your vote; please participate in a new poll to help us better understand our audience and their primary railway interests." The poll could include a little more than age of member and modelling era.
Leon
The NGS already has the data on age and model interest (era and geographic) from 5000+ members.
Data is good (for a manufacturer!) if you can get a decent size sample.
Cheers Mike
I'd say 5000+ is a good sample size. I'd like to see the numbers for age and era from this group, but I'd also like to see the answers to some other questions. There seem to be a relatively small number of enthusiastic collectors and modellers who drive the market. I'm simply wondering if the manufacturers are missing a potentially overwhelming segment of the marketplace that may have simpler, narrower interests. I haven't followed the "Thomas" market but it suggests other potentially untapped markets waiting to be exploited. If I wrote a popular series of books featuring a variety of technically accurate steam engines (i.e. The Railway Children) in the wonderful British countryside, perhaps that would create more demand. Is it time to think outside the box? Could a railway model manufacturer commission a writer to create such a series? I don't know a lot about the hobby or the supporting industry, but then most of the potential market doesn't, either! That part of the market might be more responsive if production was increased and prices lowered a bit to lure more people into the hobby.
Leon
I'm not so sure about Thomas. Experience of my grandchildren says Thomas is popular between 18 months and four years but is looked upon as too childish by four year olds.
The batch production way of manufacturing is forced by simple economics. Setting up a run of making anything has significant costs attached to it so you have to make a reasonable sized batch in one go. On the other hand, nobody can afford to keep hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of stock in their warehouse for years in order to provide a continuous supply of a large range of items. This inevitably means that items will only be available for a shortish time (unless it is a poor seller). If something that you want hits the shops then you have to go for it. If you snooze you lose! In a way this makes getting your collection together quite good fun - watching out for model railway announcements and then pouncing when the right model comes along.
I think we all need to be ambassadors for N in whatever way we can. This can be achieved by showing our layouts on all scale Facebook groups and stating the size of any layouts being shown. Also taking good N gauge layouts to exhibitions (remember them).
I think the membership of this group will be very similar to that of the NGS, but that's not much use when trying to encourage new people into the hobby. The whole point of a Thomas range is to encourage 'new blood', and for that it's irrelevant what the current demographic looks like.
I'd personally say, with the ubiquity of Thomas the Tank Engine, any 'rival' series, particularly if produced with the express intention of driving sales of N gauge models would be a total flop. I've never seen anything associated with the Railway Children, TTTE is a bit of juggernaut in this respect.
Also, whilst the 'Thomas' market is huge, I'm not sure there's much overlap between N gauge modelling and the key Thomas demographic, which is probably under 8 (ish, that's a bit arbitrary). I think the key markets for Thomas (and equivalents) remains the toy market - wooden trains and the like. I'm not sure I'd expect to see a manufacturer really growing their segment from investing in a Thomas line.
i returned to n gauge 2 years ago..after a 20 year hiatus. most of my purchases have been " pre-owned " ( ugh--who invented that phrase ), from ebay and the facebook sales pages. ive noticed recently bids on ebay have gone way beyond what i would consider paying. a sign of a buoyant market ?---and facebook items for sale are also priced beyond what i will pay--and they sell.
Quote from: njee20 on August 13, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
I think the membership of this group will be very similar to that of the NGS, but that's not much use when trying to encourage new people into the hobby. The whole point of a Thomas range is to encourage 'new blood', and for that it's irrelevant what the current demographic looks like.
I'd personally say, with the ubiquity of Thomas the Tank Engine, any 'rival' series, particularly if produced with the express intention of driving sales of N gauge models would be a total flop. I've never seen anything associated with the Railway Children, TTTE is a bit of juggernaut in this respect.
Also, whilst the 'Thomas' market is huge, I'm not sure there's much overlap between N gauge modelling and the key Thomas demographic, which is probably under 8 (ish, that's a bit arbitrary). I think the key markets for Thomas (and equivalents) remains the toy market - wooden trains and the like. I'm not sure I'd expect to see a manufacturer really growing their segment from investing in a Thomas line.
i totally agree.
i worked as a vol in the i o wight steam railway gift shop--and we had a significant display of thomas kids toys--and it sold well.
on the other hand--the lovely display cabinets of n gauge locos just stood there--rarely opened.
i dont think any toys designed for young children should ever require a mains transformer.
My 3 year old will also drive his wooden Thomas models on just about anything, the kitchen floor, a restaurant table, whatever. He has a circle of Unitrack and I do give him some of my stock to play with (we've had a few casualties, but he's pretty good!), but it's just a bit fiddly for him to set up completely on his own, which means you need an adult who's at least partially invested. That's never going to change, and it's not really about the basis of the stock. He's currently got a Freightliner 86 and some container flats, he wouldn't enjoy a Thomas any more I don't think!
As a newbie to the hobby (nearly four years), I’m just a little too young to remember steam. I’m just turned 59. I find N Gauge, for want of a better word, “infuriating”. If as the manufactures state that their locos are end user serviceable, why the heck do they not provide decent and accurate instructions with their models and why the heck are they so fragile and often enough pigs to open up to fit a DCC chip?
Why is it that the quality control so is poor? I’ve bought 5 new locos this year and four have been problematic, in so much as having to return them to the shop and get my money back. The last one I bought was the Farish Class 3. A total heap and had to exchange it three times and still couldn’t get one which ran half decently.
If manufacturers want to encourage new blood to the hobby irrespective of their age, why don’t they produce more well known examples such as Evening Star or Blue Peter for example? It’s safe and familiar ground for those considering entering the hobby.
I’d like to buy better known named locos, but I don’t want to buy 40 year old Minitrix locos or pizza cutter Poole era Farish models.
There are four bricks and mortar model railway shops in my locality (East Anglia) I visit and they are all carrying less and less N Gauge locos and rolling stock. The Graham Farish display cabinets have more dust, spiders and empty spaces in them than locos, which I do find dispiriting.
We are contemplating moving house in the next couple of years and when we do come to move I’ll be seriously considering ditching N Gauge for a gauge that’s more forgiving, less expensive, reliable and more readily available - not too sure what scale as it depends upon the house we move to.
I think in answer to the question as to how N Gauge market is going, personally I don’t think it’s doing very well at all.
Unfortunately, it's a question of changing prototypes, and going with Kato, be they Japanese or American. ;)
... or European, plenty of high quality brands to choose from :D
Not necessarily cheaper though!
It is frustrating that new N Gauge stock is in short supply. But between Rails, Hattons, eBay and DCC Supplies' Dapol outlet, there is a regular supply of used N Gauge stock at prices well below new releases. Initially I was wary about buying 2H, but I have had fewer duds this way than buying new - it seems that previous owners do a better QC job than the manufacturers.
Quote from: njee20 on August 13, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
I've never seen anything associated with the Railway Children, TTTE is a bit of juggernaut in this respect.
Funny you should say that - Dapol have a Pannier Tank in Railway Children GN&S Rly livery in their current catalogue, (http://www.dapol.co.uk/Catalogue/34/index.html) - due first quarter of 2021.
Steven B.
i first started in n gauge in my early 20's and soon had acquired all the brit outline models available--and a few white metal blobs as well. we were grateful for whatever we could get. now ive returned to the hobby--the new models just amaze me--the detail is exquisite. i would be very angry if i had laid out 160 quid on a brand new loco and found it faulty. at 50-60 quid second hand its a risk i take..but so far only had a couple not so good.
Quote from: Steven B on August 13, 2020, 11:09:46 AM
Quote from: njee20 on August 13, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
I've never seen anything associated with the Railway Children, TTTE is a bit of juggernaut in this respect.
Funny you should say that - Dapol have a Pannier Tank in Railway Children GN&S Rly livery in their current catalogue, (http://www.dapol.co.uk/Catalogue/34/index.html) - due first quarter of 2021.
Well there we go! To be fair, I would have been better saying that I wouldn't recognise anything from the Railway Children!
Quote from: Mike Hamilton on August 13, 2020, 10:19:55 AM
If manufacturers want to encourage new blood to the hobby irrespective of their age, why don't they produce more well known examples such as Evening Star or Blue Peter for example? It's safe and familiar ground for those considering entering the hobby.
I'd like to buy better known named locos, but I don't want to buy 40 year old Minitrix locos or pizza cutter Poole era Farish models.
We are contemplating moving house in the next couple of years and when we do come to move I'll be seriously considering ditching N Gauge for a gauge that's more forgiving, less expensive, reliable and more readily available - not too sure what scale as it depends upon the house we move to.
As far as the second paragraph goes I think it rules out everything but Brio ;)
As to the first, Dapol made 2 versions of the 2-10-0 Evening Star - ND-090 in green and 2D-013-003 in weathered black along with a class 66 of the same name if 'Sheds' are your bag 2D-007-005. Farish 372-388 was their Blue Peter in green.
Of course, many models need to be snapped up when released or the second hand market is what's left
A decent set of instructions wouldn't do any harm whatsoever and wouldn't cost much or take much effort to produce. Not everyone has the knowledge of how to take a loco apart to fit a chip. I Know I don't, especially when the instructions bear no semblance whatsoever to the loco you've shelled out your hard earned dish for.
I think you misunderstood my statement about collecting 'sheds'.
What I was trying to say was, it doesn't encourage newcomers to the hobby to find that their favourite locos are only available second hand or old tooling. You say Dapol made 2 versions etc. but I'm talking about today not the dim and distant past.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 13, 2020, 03:53:33 PM
Quote from: Mike Hamilton on August 13, 2020, 10:19:55 AM
If manufacturers want to encourage new blood to the hobby irrespective of their age, why don't they produce more well known examples such as Evening Star or Blue Peter for example? It's safe and familiar ground for those considering entering the hobby.
I'd like to buy better known named locos, but I don't want to buy 40 year old Minitrix locos or pizza cutter Poole era Farish models.
We are contemplating moving house in the next couple of years and when we do come to move I'll be seriously considering ditching N Gauge for a gauge that's more forgiving, less expensive, reliable and more readily available - not too sure what scale as it depends upon the house we move to.
As far as the second paragraph goes I think it rules out everything but Brio ;)
As to the first, Dapol made 2 versions of the 2-10-0 Evening Star - ND-090 in green and 2D-013-003 in weathered black along with a class 66 of the same name if 'Sheds' are your bag 2D-007-005. Farish 372-388 was their Blue Peter in green.
Of course, many models need to be snapped up when released or the second hand market is what's left
Obviously it depends what you classify as the dim and distant past, but we're talking about the current generation model, which is still available with different running numbers.
You're just in the wrong hobby if you want constant availability, sadly. Models are batch produced. This is the same for N or OO, which really is the only viable alternative if you want a more 'mainstream' equivalent (certainly you won't find more availability with O, or 009 or similar). It's not cheaper though, and requires more space. If you want to be able to walk into a shop and pick up a specific model it's just not the reality that exists. I spent all of 30 seconds looking, but there's no widely available OO gauge Evening Star or Blue Peter either. And what once you've bought those? The manufacturers need to cater for a market which wants more than the 'celebrity' locos - so you need other 9Fs or A2s, and this is where we are now...
Try and find an HO scale AC-12 cab forward from the US, or a French TGV SE or myriad other examples, it's just a niche hobby sadly, and I don't think we can judge success on how much is available in shops.
Quote from: Mike Hamilton on August 13, 2020, 10:19:55 AM
I think in answer to the question as to how N Gauge market is going, personally I don't think it's doing very well at all.
Mike, I agree with most of what you say but I don't have enough experience to accept your judgement about N Gauge. I can only repeat what I've said before in other threads. I made a mistake choosing N Gauge due to my age (physical limitations), and I do think too much emphasis is placed on model detail. I'm not convinced that the majority of enthusiasts need or desire so much detail. I think Union Mills has it about right.
Leon
Quote from: Mike Hamilton on August 13, 2020, 04:08:07 PM
A decent set of instructions wouldn't do any harm whatsoever and wouldn't cost much or take much effort to produce. Not everyone has the knowledge of how to take a loco apart to fit a chip. I Know I don't, especially when the instructions bear no semblance whatsoever to the loco you've shelled out your hard earned dish for.
I think you misunderstood my statement about collecting 'sheds'.
What I was trying to say was, it doesn't encourage newcomers to the hobby to find that their favourite locos are only available second hand or old tooling. You say Dapol made 2 versions etc. but I'm talking about today not the dim and distant past.
]
I agree with your remarks about fitting a chip. That should be made a simple job anyone can tackle. I didn't misunderstand your statement about collecting sheds as (a) you never made one and (b) I was merely alluding to the name 'Evening Star'
Yes, Dapol made several versions of the 9F and still have the tooling, no doubt. Therefore no one else will go near it. If you can convince Dapol there's a demand for a specific 9F such that they can make them and have none left on the shelf after, say, one year then I'm sure they'd accommodate you but their minimum run might be 1000.
Like I said, you either snap them up on release or take a risk there won't be another run. We're all in the same boat there.
As Leon says Union Mills has it about right, for the perfectionist rivet counters it's not impossible to add your own detail, some of us have been doing it since the 1970s (I started N in '74) omce you have a good basic shape to work with then adding vac pipes, brake hangers and pipework etc can be done to suit personal requirements, there are several sellers of such bits and pieces, Nbrass & BHE, among others, it might keep costs down.
Are we modellers or collectors?
For me at least half the point of model railways is the work one can do oneself, not just Metcalfe and Scalescenes buildings and scenic work, but what I would class as model engineering. I probably buy more "pre owned" and "Spares or repair" than new
Oh Gawd - here we go again
Quote from: Bigmac on August 13, 2020, 09:13:46 AM
i returned to n gauge 2 years ago..after a 20 year hiatus. most of my purchases have been " pre-owned " ( ugh--who invented that phrase ), from ebay and the facebook sales pages. ive noticed recently bids on ebay have gone way beyond what i would consider paying. a sign of a buoyant market ?---and facebook items for sale are also priced beyond what i will pay--and they sell.
Hi @Bigmac (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=847)
There is a buoyant market for British N gauge models but my concern is how big is that market. Demand may outstrip supply but that is not the same as a market big enough to sustain mass production.
Take one example, the Poole Farish Pullman coaches. They are very popular and sell well on a certain internet sale room. Often these coaches go for what could be considered "silly" money given they are crude (by today's standards) and not even a model of a real prototype.
One might think that it would be worth Bachmann running off a new batch? (Assuming tooling is still useable). But is there are a market for another few hundred of these? Would people pay £20-30 for a new run model? May be but it is a gamble.
I fear British N gauge may fall below critical mass where the market demand is simply not sufficient to support large enough batches. There will be the exceptional "must have" model but it worries me.
Kind regards
Paddy
Quote from: Mike Hamilton on August 13, 2020, 04:08:07 PM
A decent set of instructions wouldn't do any harm whatsoever and wouldn't cost much or take much effort to produce. Not everyone has the knowledge of how to take a loco apart to fit a chip. I Know I don't, especially when the instructions bear no semblance whatsoever to the loco you've shelled out your hard earned dish for.
I think you misunderstood my statement about collecting 'sheds'.
What I was trying to say was, it doesn't encourage newcomers to the hobby to find that their favourite locos are only available second hand or old tooling. You say Dapol made 2 versions etc. but I'm talking about today not the dim and distant past.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 13, 2020, 03:53:33 PM
Quote from: Mike Hamilton on August 13, 2020, 10:19:55 AM
If manufacturers want to encourage new blood to the hobby irrespective of their age, why don't they produce more well known examples such as Evening Star or Blue Peter for example? It's safe and familiar ground for those considering entering the hobby.
I'd like to buy better known named locos, but I don't want to buy 40 year old Minitrix locos or pizza cutter Poole era Farish models.
We are contemplating moving house in the next couple of years and when we do come to move I'll be seriously considering ditching N Gauge for a gauge that's more forgiving, less expensive, reliable and more readily available - not too sure what scale as it depends upon the house we move to.
As far as the second paragraph goes I think it rules out everything but Brio ;)
As to the first, Dapol made 2 versions of the 2-10-0 Evening Star - ND-090 in green and 2D-013-003 in weathered black along with a class 66 of the same name if 'Sheds' are your bag 2D-007-005. Farish 372-388 was their Blue Peter in green.
Of course, many models need to be snapped up when released or the second hand market is what's left
Hi @Mike Hamilton (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5719)
If you get tempted by one an early Dapol 9F Evening Star a word of caution. I bought one when it was released and it was awful. The model had to be replaced and eventually the replacement was sent back to Dapol for repair. The build quality and finish is abysmal although from a distance it does look like a 9F.
Seriously, if you want a 2-10-0 that you can run, will pull a train and is robust then you will have more success with the Minitrix version from the 1970s.
Obviously, others mileage may vary.
Kind regards
Paddy
I think the question from the OP is answered subjectively - if you are modelling an era or geography which is well-served by commercial ready-to-run models, then you would probably say that the market is doing just fine. You do see manufacturers doubling- and tripling-down on successful models - the CL66 and the CL33 spring to mind. I'm actually quite surprised how popular the 33's are considering they didn't have either the cachet or the numbers when they were in service. Of course, they were exceptionally adaptable and could often be seen way off network and probably got a reputation at the time of being an "exotic" sighting outside the Southern Region.
If you're interested in or drawn to a less-popular region or era, then you might be a little frustrated with the lack of options - for me (Clive), I'd love to see a 4-VEP, a 4-TC set, the Hampshire diesels, a 2-EPB but realistically I know there's nowhere near enough wider demand to justify the tooling and production expense. I have a fantastic "CR Signals" Dapol CL33 and I was a little surprised that in the bag 'o' bits there was a pair of snowploughs, but no pneumatic hoses to customise the model when almost a third of the class were capable of push-pull operation with the 4-TC sets.
The gap between pipeline announcements and deliveries to retail can be frustrating - I've had a Gaugemaster CL73 on pre-order for so long that I've almost forgotten about it. On the plus side, when these models finally are released, you get quite a buzz!
On the other side of the coin, I enjoy the sleuthing to track down out-of-production items; obviously from eBay, but also other sources, not least the members of this forum. As in any after-market, there are some desirable items which attract a sometimes not-insignificant markup, but equally I've found some true bargains. It's a part of the hobby which I find very entertaining - I get as much pleasure out of "winning" an Esso/BP 14T tank wagon as I do from getting my hands on a brand-new-in-box loco. Unearthing an older "treasure" which has never been out of the box and giving it the light of day is a great moment.
If only judging by the second-hand activity, I'd say that the market is alive and well.
There have been some interesting points raised on this thread, a couple I'd like to touch on. The idea of creating TV/Movie content that somehow drives demand for models I'm not sure stands up to too much scrutiny. Yes, Thomas is an ongoing phenomenon, which when you think about it, is quite extraordinary, but it's not a genre you can easily replicate. For realistic content, I don't know the numbers from retail of the Harry Potter "Hogwarts Express", but I think that Hornby might admit to being a little disappointed that one of the most successful and internationally-recognized movie franchises ever didn't translate into more sales.
The second point is the age demographic of those active in the hobby. Points have been well-made about the fact that as we get older, we get more time, more space and more money to allow us to develop our own layouts and collections. If there is a desire to get more young people involved in the hobby, then we need to remove the barriers to entry (cost and space) and here the local clubs can play an enormously-valuable part. But we need to embrace new ideas - fantasy and steampunk springs to mind - and to allow new members or new guests the opportunity to drive or operate the club layouts. I recall a thread from a couple of years ago whereby younger volunteers on heritage railways were frustrated that they had to serve an "apprenticeship" of 20 years or so polishing engines and scraping rust off restoration projects before they were allowed anywhere near a footplate or a signal box. Why would you invest that amount of time into a volunteer hobby before you get to try the fun stuff? I'm not saying that any of our clubs are like that, but we probably need to make sure that we don't fall into the trap of eschewing anything that's not prototypical or "what we like".
But back to the original question. I think if you go into the N-gauge world with your eyes open that you're not going to be able to have one of that, one of those, three of the other and a case of that off the retail shelf when the fancy takes you, then you're going to thoroughly enjoy yourself. If, on the other hand, you want to lay some track, plant some locos and buildings and run according to what you want to see, you might find things a little less enjoyable.
Horses for courses and all that. Personally, when I came into this hobby a few years ago, I had no idea that most of what I had in my mind simply wasn't available at retail. Instead of getting frustrated, as I said, I developed a real enjoyment around tracking stuff down.
I've not really had my fingers burned on eBay - I have a CL23 that won't move, but it was working just fine when I took delivery of it and I ran it for maybe 500 scale miles, so I can't really fault the seller on not having a crystal ball. I'll figure it out. My bargain Deltic prototype had a split gear, so perhaps that might have been something the seller should have known, but it didn't cause me any upset. I've NEVER had my fingers burned, or even sightly warmed, by the fine people on this forum that I've traded with.
So a long and rambling answer to the OP's question. I think the market is fine, and judging by the number of "hellos" that we send out to new members announcing themselves on the forum new interest continues to develop - maybe offset by attrition but still an encouraging sign. Sure, I'd like to see more pre-TOPS SR models coming to market, but that's just me and my own niche.
Happy to be here!
I went back and read my posts in this thread. They contributed nothing, really! Obviously, I'm not in step with most for I'm unable to understand a hobby where people pledge their money for products that MAY be produced months from now. Perhaps that gives the manufacturer an incentive to bring the product to market, but I can't understand buying something that is untested. It's not a fair analogy, I know, but how many of us would order an automobile in advance of production? As to the thread question, I think N gauge is doing as well as can be expected for models too small for children AND older adults. Both ends of the market are crucial for a healthy industry, in my estimation.
I promise to shut up and listen!
Leon
Quote from: Leon on August 14, 2020, 01:19:54 AM
It's not a fair analogy, I know, but how many of us would order an automobile in advance of production?
Not me, nor maybe us, but ask any owner of a Tesla, and you'll get a 100% response - "I did". You can't walk into a Tesla showroom and drive one away (I'm not even sure there are any Tesla showrooms anyway). You pre-order, pay a deposit (refundable) and wait your turn.
Quote from: Leon on August 14, 2020, 01:19:54 AM
Obviously, I'm not in step with most for I'm unable to understand a hobby where people pledge their money for products that MAY be produced months from now.
Because, putting it simply, that is often the only way to get that certain model. Providing you can be assured any monies will be refunded if the project does not go ahead, I have absolutely no issues with pre payment although prefer it (like the RevolutioN method) of making a half payment up front with balance on despatch to me. For far too long we have been locked into the Farish/Dapol 'you'll get what we offer you and not what you want' way of operating and it is so refreshing now to have others willing to listen to the market and come up with models their customer base wants. That, and purely that, is why I think the N gauge market is
currently in a good position
Geez, you're up early, Mick ;D
With regard to "continuous supply", I think of it like this...
20 years ago, if you wanted an LMS 4-6-0, you were fairly certain that if you walked in to any model shop there would be one on the shelf - It would be a Black 5 numbered 5041 and that was it...
Now, you have three choices - Black 5, Jubilee & Royal Scot. They may not be continuously available but 90% of the time, 90% of shops will have at least one of the 3 in stock, and each time they restock the running number has changed, saving you the effort of renumbering!
If you wanted a continuous supply of identical locos the old days were better. If you want prototypical variety in you fleet, surely the present is better...
Quote from: Leon on August 14, 2020, 01:19:54 AM
As to the thread question, I think N gauge is doing as well as can be expected for models too small for children AND older adults.
Leon
Nobody has told me (65) or my 4 year old grandson that N gauge is too small for us. Luckily we both seem to be getting on fine with N gauge at the moment. I use one of those magnifying lights when working on anything and grandson understands they are delicate and need careful handling. He is currently getting to grips with the brake simulator on my Gaugemaster controller.
Yes, I have to say I'm constantly amazed by the dexterity of my 3 year old when it comes to putting stock on! Present rake is a 66 with sixteen MJA hoppers. He's even got used to Dapol's limp couplings, and often says "daddy, this coupling needs some special glue" (Tacky Wax).
I had a Triang clockwork set at age 3 and broke the track, but ran it on the carpet anyway.
But by the time I got a Playcraft HO set at age 4, I knew it was all wrong, and couldn't wait to get a Triang set at age 5.
This from the same child that when asked if he wanted a younger brother or sister, simply replied "but what about my inheritance!"
Bob
Quote from: njee20 on August 13, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
I think the membership of this group will be very similar to that of the NGS, but that's not much use when trying to encourage new people into the hobby. The whole point of a Thomas range is to encourage 'new blood', and for that it's irrelevant what the current demographic looks like.
I'd personally say, with the ubiquity of Thomas the Tank Engine, any 'rival' series, particularly if produced with the express intention of driving sales of N gauge models would be a total flop. I've never seen anything associated with the Railway Children, TTTE is a bit of juggernaut in this respect.
Also, whilst the 'Thomas' market is huge, I'm not sure there's much overlap between N gauge modelling and the key Thomas demographic, which is probably under 8 (ish, that's a bit arbitrary). I think the key markets for Thomas (and equivalents) remains the toy market - wooden trains and the like. I'm not sure I'd expect to see a manufacturer really growing their segment from investing in a Thomas line.
the Tomix N gauge Thomas sets go like hot cakes!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/6013812145 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/6013812145)
and just look at s/h prices
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1313&_nkw=thomas&_sacat=19119 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1313&_nkw=thomas&_sacat=19119)
Bachmann only need to order 500, (providing they are allowed to produce N models)!
Yes and no. They're comparatively rare, which means they command a high price, which isn't the same thing.
Yeah ok 500 will probably sell, but that hardly strikes me as a glowing success for something known globally. If they produced 10,000 would they all fly off the shelves?
My point is that I'm not sure you'll encourage people into N gauge with a range of TTTE.
I think the market will be fine. I will soon be celebrating '2 years in the hobby'.
I've barely got a running slice of layout done, and yet I just checked... and I have 34 locos.
Only because the girlfriend asked me 'what's in all the boxes', so I thought I should tally up. I won't mention wagons, because there are too many to count.
My shopping list is still as long.
There must be plenty of collectors/modellers/hobbyists like me... utterly addicted!
:hmmm:
34 locos in 2 years = 17 per year.
If I were to use the same formula for myself I would have just over 600 :o
How about that? I'm actually very restrained and feel so much better now :D
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 19, 2020, 02:38:32 PM
:hmmm:
34 locos in 2 years = 17 per year.
If I were to use the same formula for myself I would have just over 6000 :o
How about that? I'm actually very restrained and feel so much better now :D
Haha, so when you put it like that... I might have a problem. ;D
It's the sound chips that make things pricey, I have 10 installed now... and they're all getting sound!
In fact, I think wagons are the hidden profit (cashcow) in all of this. To satisfy even half my locos I need around ~500 wagons of various rakes. That's the best part of £10,000.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 19, 2020, 02:38:32 PM
:hmmm:
34 locos in 2 years = 17 per year.
If I were to use the same formula for myself I would have just over 6000 :o
How about that? I'm actually very restrained and feel so much better now :D
@Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) You are not really over 350 years old are you? I know I feel that way some days.:-)
Quote from: woodbury22uk on August 19, 2020, 03:24:16 PM
@Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) You are not really over 350 years old are you? I know I feel that way some days.:-)
He works it out in dog years :D
Quote from: woodbury22uk on August 19, 2020, 03:24:16 PM
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 19, 2020, 02:38:32 PM
:hmmm:
34 locos in 2 years = 17 per year.
If I were to use the same formula for myself I would have just over 6000 :o
How about that? I'm actually very restrained and feel so much better now :D
@Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) You are not really over 350 years old are you? I know I feel that way some days.:-)
Quote from: tutenkhamunsleeping on August 19, 2020, 03:28:25 PM
Quote from: woodbury22uk on August 19, 2020, 03:24:16 PM
@Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) You are not really over 350 years old are you? I know I feel that way some days.:-)
He works it out in dog years :D
Sorry, Chaps. Large chicken up on the multiplication front :-[
With all these warm nights I do feel dog tired but that's the only canine connection.
Even so, at just 600 I am still being very restrained so will allow myself to buy more if the right thing comes up.
I bought my first N gauge loco in 2012. I now have 43 so that's a fairly modest 4.8 per year ( I don't expect to add any more this year....). The frightening thing for me is the coaches. I may only have 74 but at the current rrp of around £40 a go that's about £3,000 to buy them now. And then there are my wagons and parcels vehicles. Perhaps coaches and wagons is where the profit is. I always try to buy things at the right price so I haven't spent anywhere near that much on my collection. I grabbed a bargain at the Severn Valley Railway shop just the other day - 2 brand new Farish mk1s at £24 each. Of course when I started N gauge 9 years ago £24 would have been a lot for a mk1 coach. How things change.
Went from 1 to well over 100 and now I am back down to just under 50 locomotives. It is far too easy to get carried away! ;)
As for coaches and wagons... far too many to fit on HOLLERTON JUNCTION. :D
EDIT: On a serious note, one thing I have noticed is that in recent years I have moved from buying new/collecting to modelling (well in my terms).
Kind regards
Paddy
Quote from: Chris Morris on August 14, 2020, 08:06:11 AM
Quote from: Leon on August 14, 2020, 01:19:54 AM
As to the thread question, I think N gauge is doing as well as can be expected for models too small for children AND older adults.
Leon
Nobody has told me (65) or my 4 year old grandson that N gauge is too small for us. Luckily we both seem to be getting on fine with N gauge at the moment. I use one of those magnifying lights when working on anything and grandson understands they are delicate and need careful handling. He is currently getting to grips with the brake simulator on my Gaugemaster controller.
Meanwhile in Japan, N gauge is seen as the next logical step from the toy-like "Plarail" (somewhere I have a photo in the Plarail section of a toystore with a display to that effect), as it's widely available and you have a reasonable chance of getting a starter pack with something recognizable with saved-up pocket money. (Meanwhile in Japanese HO land there are constant wails of dissatisfaction at the limited availability of pretty much anything; British N has it much better than the larger Japanese scales).
Quote from: Leon on August 14, 2020, 01:19:54 AM
As to the thread question, I think N gauge is doing as well as can be expected for models too small for children AND older adults.
Leon
Going slightly OT, but I finally managed to get a post-lockdown eye test last week. I've noticed that my ability to see and work with N models has deteriorated a bit since last year. During the exam my optician remarked that when you are younger you just take it for granted that your eyes will do everything you need, but as you get older you have to regard glasses as tools, and get the right ones for the different jobs you need to do. On that basis I raised the N gauge issue with her - discovered that her father, ex-husband and father were/are all railway modellers - she did a few extra close vision tests - and next week I will be picking up my special extra-close N gauge work glasses! (Not that the glasses are themselves 2mm scale you understand...)
My optician is a small independent practice with "older" staff, so you *might* not get such a helpful response from the eyewear sales kids in one of the high street chains, but worth asking around?
Yours, batlike,
Richard T
Quote from: Richard Taylor on August 19, 2020, 10:16:30 PM
Quote from: Leon on August 14, 2020, 01:19:54 AM
As to the thread question, I think N gauge is doing as well as can be expected for models too small for children AND older adults.
Leon
Going slightly OT, but I finally managed to get a post-lockdown eye test last week. I've noticed that my ability to see and work with N models has deteriorated a bit since last year. During the exam my optician remarked that when you are younger you just take it for granted that your eyes will do everything you need, but as you get older you have to regard glasses as tools, and get the right ones for the different jobs you need to do. On that basis I raised the N gauge issue with her - discovered that her father, ex-husband and father were/are all railway modellers - she did a few extra close vision tests - and next week I will be picking up my special extra-close N gauge work glasses! (Not that the glasses are themselves 2mm scale you understand...)
My optician is a small independent practice with "older" staff, so you *might* not get such a helpful response from the eyewear sales kids in one of the high street chains, but worth asking around?
Yours, batlike,
Richard T
I'm 51.96 yrs.
I've had to have 'reading' glasses for a good few years now. Recently I've struggled to do close up wiring for work, < 8", so I spoke to my optician who is also an old school high street independent.
He did a quick on the spot calculation, looked at my last prescription, and said a pair of +3 cheapo reading specs would do the job. He also said that I should only use them when needed.
I find it useful to have them to hand when modelling. So much so that I went online recently and purchased two extra pairs so i can leave them with all my gear.
When stuff gets really 'small' I can put them over my regular reading glasses for ultra close work.
One word of caution. Don't try to walk in them!
Quote from: emjaybee on August 19, 2020, 11:26:06 PM
One word of caution. Don't try to walk in them!
I think that would be most uncomfortable and will stay with shoes or trainers, thanks.
Yep, I use a pair of 3.5 "cheapo" glasses that I picked up in Home Bargains for less than £2. They work really well for modelling.
Kind regards
Paddy