Fellow sufferers, I'd like some help if I may? .
I want to recreate a western region trip freight circa 1983, particularly Devon & Cornwall workings.
Could anyone tell me what I might find in the average consist?
I realise sourcing the stock may be a bit tricky but I'd like to try.
Any gen/advice gratefully received.
Cheers!
Rob a good starting point @Foxhound (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8774) is https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/ (https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/) obviously China clay and speedlink workings to / from bristol , exeter riverside, Plymouth, Foley, st blazey. Photos, links can be found here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83609-western-region-1980s-freight-west-of-england-division-my-photos/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83609-western-region-1980s-freight-west-of-england-division-my-photos/) and https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freight-Trains-Western-Region-1980s/dp/1398100501 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freight-Trains-Western-Region-1980s/dp/1398100501) I'm more than happy to source and cost a speedlink a china clay rake rob. Around page 45 here I talk with alex about his taunton area layout https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=49371.660 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=49371.660)
Barnstaple was also still pretty busy with trip freights in the early 80s.
Roy
Quote from: crewearpley40 on July 21, 2020, 10:25:46 PM
Rob a good starting point @Foxhound (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8774) is https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/ (https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/) obviously China clay and speedlink workings to / from bristol , exeter riverside, Plymouth, Foley, st blazey. Photos, links can be found here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83609-western-region-1980s-freight-west-of-england-division-my-photos/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83609-western-region-1980s-freight-west-of-england-division-my-photos/) and https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freight-Trains-Western-Region-1980s/dp/1398100501 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freight-Trains-Western-Region-1980s/dp/1398100501)
Great links - thanks for sharing!
Mike
Quote from: maridunian on July 22, 2020, 06:35:02 AM
Quote from: crewearpley40 on July 21, 2020, 10:25:46 PM
Rob a good starting point @Foxhound (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8774) is https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/ (https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/) obviously China clay and speedlink workings to / from bristol , exeter riverside, Plymouth, Foley, st blazey. Photos, links can be found here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83609-western-region-1980s-freight-west-of-england-division-my-photos/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83609-western-region-1980s-freight-west-of-england-division-my-photos/) and https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freight-Trains-Western-Region-1980s/dp/1398100501 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freight-Trains-Western-Region-1980s/dp/1398100501)
Great links - thanks for sharing!
Mike
they are not an exhaustive list
Quote from: crewearpley40 on July 21, 2020, 10:25:46 PM
I'm more than happy to source and cost a speedlink a china clay rake rob.
Apologies for the slow reply Chris. I've got a short rake of hoods, a couple of tube wagons and a VBB currently. I'm looking to build up gradually, but things like the Taunton Cider ferrywagon (they sold out quick!), and maybe a PRA and a Tiger (I believe they have been produced in the past?).
Not a huge rake, just enough to add some interest.
I've seen a PRA on Shapeways but the shipping is a bit scary!
Grateful for any advice or hints.
Rob. Apologies I'm not sure who your supplier is. Can I apologies I'm not sure on the stock your after it's way too modern for my era as im 70s 90s era. Try kernow and ask for Wayne. He maybe able to guide you as I'm of railfreight and speedlink and just remember polybulks, cargowaggons and vaa, vba, vca, vda ,vea , tta, oba, oca etc
Also worth noting -
Tullis Russell PAA wagons, previously done by Grafar rare now but occasionally appear on Ebay etc.
Many clay dries were coal fired so short sets of HEA coal wagons were transported into the area, empties returning out. available from Grafar.
Also calcified seaweed was shipped out in old HEA hoppers as well as Yeoman PGA hoppers and Yeoman/ARC POA box wagons. Also available from Grafar
Fertiliser was shipped into Truro goods yard in PWA bogie vans, available as a 3D print on shapeways.
Occasional fuel tanks for St Blazey. Grafar again
Cement tanks to/from Chacewater, mainly in specific trains but occasionally included in mixed freights. Grafar
Consider a variety of vans - VAA/VBA etc, Ferryvans (soon to be released by the NGS), Ferywaggons, Cargowaggons etc Grafar/Dapol/NGS
Also the TSL Polybulk wagons would be seen, done by Grafar though bloomin pricey!!
The tiger wagons were available on Shapeways but have disappeared, I have messaged the designer a few times but never got a reply unfortunately.
Useful website here -
http://www.kalyr.co.uk/railways/CornwallSpeedlinks.html (http://www.kalyr.co.uk/railways/CornwallSpeedlinks.html)
A trio of very useful books you may wish to check out -
The Newquay Branch and its Branches, John Vaughan
An Illustrated History of West Country China Clay Trains, also by John Vaughan
Diesel Days, Devon and Cornwall, also by John Vaughan
Best wishes and stay safe
Simon
Hea wagons from.my supplier are @Foxhound (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8774) around £11, farish 373075C and 373029B pga wagon, 373976B and 373975B wagon . My supplier do the 373235 farish polybulk and simon says its pricey at £45. I have a foster yeoman jha kit I was given ready made just the one for sale I don't need.
The tullis paa wagons are converted covhop wagons see farish 377765a and 377766 . I would google these wagons rob
Quote from: crewearpley40 on July 29, 2020, 01:17:06 AM
The tullis paa wagons are converted covhop wagons see farish 377765a and 377766 . I would google these wagons rob
Payday yesterday and a quick eBay search this lunchtime found an old Farish Tullis Russell PGA so I'm chuffed about that.
It sits exactly where I need it to date-wise; early 80s.
Your advice is much appreciated again gents. :NGF:
Quote from: crewearpley40 on July 29, 2020, 12:42:02 AM
Rob. Apologies I'm not sure who your supplier is. Can I apologies I'm not sure on the stock your after it's way too modern for my era as im 70s 90s era. Try kernow and ask for Wayne. He maybe able to guide you as I'm of railfreight and speedlink and just remember polybulks, cargowaggons and vaa, vba, vca, vda ,vea , tta, oba, oca etc
Cheers Chris but I'm actually pitching for seventies to mid eighties so your help is still very much appreciated.
I could go with early 2000s clay wagons for my 67s though, I guess. 😂
Afraid I'm not up to date with china ckay stock. Wayne at kernow is the man to speak with. Simonbridgie gave ideas. For this era my leads are the best bet. I can see what price one can get at dutfield. Class 08, 25, 31, 37 on the china clay, 45, 47, 50. Judging by photos here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83609-western-region-1980s-freight-west-of-england-division-my-photos/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83609-western-region-1980s-freight-west-of-england-division-my-photos/) you may just get away with this http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/59765/377-476-Graham-Farish-China-Clay-Wagon-BR-Bauxite (http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/59765/377-476-Graham-Farish-China-Clay-Wagon-BR-Bauxite) rob . The class 35s were all withdrawn by 1975, the Warships by 1972
Quote from: Foxhound on July 29, 2020, 03:38:56 PM
Quote from: crewearpley40 on July 29, 2020, 01:17:06 AM
The tullis paa wagons are converted covhop wagons see farish 377765a and 377766 . I would google these wagons rob
Payday yesterday and a quick eBay search this lunchtime found an old Farish Tullis Russell PGA so I'm chuffed about that.
It sits exactly where I need it to date-wise; early 80s.
Your advice is much appreciated again gents. :NGF:
I am glad you found the PGA. I still have the Foster Yeoman on sale
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/8774-300920130603.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=99895)
Hi Chaps and chappesses, :helpneededsign:
I've bought the PRA body from Shapeways (37mm long) but have no idea what Peco chassis it needs? There was nothing on Shapeways page and nothing with the body to indicate which one to get. Can anyone advise?
Cheers!
Possibly 15 ft chassis rob @njee20 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147) Nick maybe able to confirm please if this correct for this shapeways product. At a guess maybe worth reading https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=9420.15 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=9420.15) this rob @Foxhound (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8774)
No idea, sorry, I don't know everything about anything 3D printed, Chris ;)
Thanks. I was just asking like rob about the suitable chassis looks like 15ft peco nr 122 . Would it be the right length
Cheers Chris! I'll get hold of one then and see how it goes. Usual issue of one broken ladder but I can get an etched replacement.
Yep, I know, what you were asking, but just not my area of expertise. Sounds like you've answered the question anyway!
37mm scales to about 17', but I don't know what Peco chassis are available.
Quote from: Foxhound on September 30, 2020, 01:09:20 PM
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/8774-300920130603.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=99895)
Hi Chaps and chappesses, :helpneededsign:
I've bought the PRA body from Shapeways (37mm long) but have no idea what Peco chassis it needs? There was nothing on Shapeways page and nothing with the body to indicate which one to get. Can anyone advise?
Cheers!
Yes, the finished example shown (https://www.shapeways.com/product/B5L9VSC5L/pra-china-clay-wagon-n-scale-1-148?optionId=40874326&li=marketplace) appears to use a PECO 15' Wagon Chassis. (https://railsofsheffield.com/products/14047/peco-nr-122-n-gauge-15ft-wheelbase-steel-type-wagon-chassis-kit?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj6finvqQ7AIVRubtCh3KqA-XEAQYASABEgJaxfD_BwE)
FWIW the Farish TTA chassis is the same length, if you'd prefer to use that. I've not come across a source for buying those separately.
Mike
My guess is it will fit the Peco 15' chassis.
However, the PRA had quite a long wheelbase for the length of the wagon, more so than the Peco chassis. The Dapol Fish-van might be worth a look as it too has the axles closer to the ends than normal.
Steven B
2f 019 006 / 007 or 008 as shown here https://www.dapol.co.uk/2f-019-007-n-gauge-blue-spot-fish-van-white-e87351-2410 (https://www.dapol.co.uk/2f-019-007-n-gauge-blue-spot-fish-van-white-e87351-2410)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/99/2947-300920170453.png)
See photo caption top left and model dimensions bottom right. The Peco and Farish 15' wheelbase chasses are 5.3cm over headstocks, Dapol Insulfish ~4.7cm.
Mike
You might need to cut and stretch the Peco chassis - can't remember what wheelbase the PRAs are.
For a West Country trip freight in 1983 most cargowaggons are probably slightly too late (majority introduced in mid 80s). Stuff like VDAs, VEAs, TTAs, Polybulks, PCAs would be ideal for trip workings along with PRAs, the odd clay tiger and clay hoods.
Shameless plug but our forthcoming MTVs might be useful for the West Country particularly the Stone branded ones.
Cheers Mike
Mike the glaring hole in the RTR market has to be the clay Tiger. If your crowd wanted to make people happy....😉
Quote from: Steven B on September 30, 2020, 04:41:23 PM
My guess is it will fit the Peco 15' chassis.
However, the PRA had quite a long wheelbase for the length of the wagon, more so than the Peco chassis. The Dapol Fish-van might be worth a look as it too has the axles closer to the ends than normal.
Steven B
Thanks Steven, worth investigating then!
Rob. More following on from mike worth reading on wagons and freight in general https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83609-western-region-1980s-freight-west-of-england-division-my-photos/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83609-western-region-1980s-freight-west-of-england-division-my-photos/) Obviously china clay was staple bit this may help decide on the traffic flows
Quote from: crewearpley40 on September 30, 2020, 08:53:41 PM
Rob. More following on from mike worth reading on wagons and freight in general https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83609-western-region-1980s-freight-west-of-england-division-my-photos/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83609-western-region-1980s-freight-west-of-england-division-my-photos/) Obviously china clay was staple bit this may help decide on the traffic flows
Chris have I told you you're a legend this week yet? 😉
No rob. Worth investigating Steven's idea. Railfreight stock saw use as did the revolutions mine pointed out. Depends what freight you intend to run I'm pretty sure milk tank traffic was dying out eg on the roads. Meldon quarry stone etc trains were around, paper, china clay
Rob @Foxhound (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8774) some photos here to peruse. Chris
how about fuel in TTA wagons for Long Rock and St Blazey depots.. HEA for coal to supply the clay dries, which I believe reloaded with sand?
Cheers
Mark
Quote from: crewearpley40 on October 07, 2020, 07:02:37 PM
Rob @Foxhound (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8774) some photos here to peruse. Chris
Hi Chris - Link?
Meanwhile....
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/100/8774-121020133020.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=100375)
Still lots to do; weathering etc. Runs nicely on the Peco chassis though!
Looks great. You've probably seen these prototype photos (https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=Pra)?
Mike
Whoops sorry was mega busy @Foxhound (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8774) wretched phone calls that day try ... https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/oldsite/DUFFS.htm (https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/oldsite/DUFFS.htm) and https://www.derbysulzers.com/devon2.html (https://www.derbysulzers.com/devon2.html)
Quote from: maridunian on October 12, 2020, 01:35:41 PM
Looks great. You've probably seen these prototype photos (https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=Pra)?
Mike
Yes, after we added the data panels according to the Kernow OO version. D'oh!
Have to move those now then...🙄😂
Quote from: crewearpley40 on October 12, 2020, 01:40:36 PM
Whoops sorry was mega busy @Foxhound (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8774) wretched phone calls that day try ... https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/oldsite/DUFFS.htm (https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/oldsite/DUFFS.htm) and https://www.derbysulzers.com/devon2.html (https://www.derbysulzers.com/devon2.html)
I've contributed to DerbySulzers in the past, David's a great guy. It's a good site!